Would like to betray without losing class

[Maroger]

<div>I would love to betray my SK to Qeynos without losing the class. Maybe if he kept his class he should work for factions or something.</div><div> </div><div>To be honest I find Freeport a really dingy, dirty city. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you cleaned it up a bit like they are doing in EQ1 but right not it is downright UGLY!!</div><div> </div><div>Who wants to live in a concrete city where all the zones are pretty unattractive?</div>

[valkyrja]

Evil people, that's who.<div></div>

[Maroger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>sparql wrote:Evil people, that's who.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Just because we are evil does not mean that we want to live in a concrete mausoleum devoid of aesthetics.

[LadyEternity]

<div></div><p>I rather agree. But I am more for them re-doing the texturing on Freeport. Just because they are evil doesn't mean they live in squaller. And it would be neat if each zone reflected it's inhabitants...instead of all looking the same. When you go into Longshadow Alley...you should know immediatly that Dark Elves reside there.</p><p> </p><p>Blacksabath</p>

[imready2go]

<div></div>You're not really talking about betraying - you're asking that you just be allowed to live wherever you choose.  And I agree with that completely.  Except on the PvP servers or on a RP-enforced server (should one ever exist), there is absolutely no reason why you can not live in whatever city you wish.  The original devs probably had a plan or reason for splitting the cities, but there was never any real follow through in the game - not in the lore, not in the mechanics, nowhere.  Other than restricted servers, you should be allowed to live where you chose if you are willing to accept the faction problems you may face.  As a matter of fact, with the recent expansion of the importance of factions, it now makes even more sense that you can live wherever you want (as long as you're willing to accept that certain merchants may not sell to you, certain NPC's may not talk to you, etc.)  It would make the game much more dynamic and interesting if we had a choice in where we can live.

[Geero]

<div>Hmm I think they might be doing this for PvP...</div><div> </div><div>This could be used to even out the population between qyenos and fp.</div>

[Maroger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>imready2go wrote:<div></div>You're not really talking about betraying - you're asking that you just be allowed to live wherever you choose.  And I agree with that completely.  Except on the PvP servers or on a RP-enforced server (should one ever exist), there is absolutely no reason why you can not live in whatever city you wish.  The original devs probably had a plan or reason for splitting the cities, but there was never any real follow through in the game - not in the lore, not in the mechanics, nowhere.  Other than restricted servers, you should be allowed to live where you chose if you are willing to accept the faction problems you may face.  As a matter of fact, with the recent expansion of the importance of factions, it now makes even more sense that you can live wherever you want (as long as you're willing to accept that certain merchants may not sell to you, certain NPC's may not talk to you, etc.)  It would make the game much more dynamic and interesting if we had a choice in where we can live.<hr></blockquote><p>I could see doing the betrayal quest - and other quests to raise your faction in your new city.</p><p>It seems as if the new changes on test are going to do more with faction so why shouldn't you have a chance to move to Qeynos and work to raise faction. -- betrayal quest could be first part of getting the faction.</p><p>I just hate the way they turned all of Freeport into a concrete slum and as DE living in Longshadow Alley --- why does it have to be so dirty!! DE don't like dirt and the old Neriak was a lovely city.</p><p> </p>

[Zaym]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div>I would love to betray my SK to Qeynos without losing the class. Maybe if he kept his class he should work for factions or something.</div><div> </div><div>To be honest I find Freeport a really dingy, dirty city. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you cleaned it up a bit like they are doing in EQ1 but right not it is downright UGLY!!</div><div> </div><div>Who wants to live in a concrete city where all the zones are pretty unattractive?</div><hr></blockquote><p>/rant on</p><p>Um, based on the game there are evil classes, good classes and neutral classes.  Good and Neutral live in the GOOD city of Qeynos while Evil and Neutral live in the EVIL city.  A Shadowknight, Assassin, Inquisitor, etc should NEVER be allowed within the city gates of Qeynos since they are EVIL.</p><p>I have no idea why this conversation keeps popping up.  Everyone from the newbie that just bought the game to the level 60 uber-trooper knows that if you want to play a EVIL character that you WILL live in Freeport.  Why must SOE change the core basis/lore of the game just to make you happy?  If you don't want to be in freeport, betray but you will not be a SK in Qeynos just like a Paladin will not live in Freeport.</p><p>Stop wanting the world changed because you can not cope with it as is.  Learn to live in the world as it is or move on.</p><p>/rant off</p>

[Brong]

<div></div><div></div><p>I think the inner parts of Freeport are actually really cool.  Only the outskirts seem to be a bit on the grunge side.</p><p>Also, Post 50, I have found myself rarely even going back to the city, maybe for a quick trip to the room or to buy something, but on average, its seldom.</p><p>Finally, just move to majdul, rooms are nice, and both good and evil can live there.</p><p>Message Edited by Brong on <span class="date_text">01-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:02 PM</span></p>

[Krooner]

<p>In the simplest of terms.  Allowing a evil only class to betray to a Good town and vice versa would ruin the immersion of the game.</p><p>If they are going to allow such a thing then limit it to the neutral classes only</p>

[Antheli]

<div></div><p>I have no real issue with the appearance of the um....slums that players first arrive to when they reach Freeport.</p><p>For me it is incentive to get out there and get some cash behind me so I can move to a nicer part of town.</p>

[Flipmode]

<div></div>I feel sorry for the qeynos based raid guilds on the new pvp servers...no brigs.  Thats gonna suck.

[Happyfunba]

<div></div><div>I think they're basing this aspect of the game on what would be the most logical setting. Good classes would not be found living within Freeport except under the guise of still being a good class. Though they could be hidden I suppose, the in-game concept of a Paladin or Monk walking free along the streets of Freeport diametrically opposes the entire game lore whereby Lucan has sought to destroy both these orders. Similarly, I doubt the people of Qeynos would have any welcome for a Necromancer or Shadow Knight who's means of operations oppose the very nature of their city.</div><div> </div><div>While of course there are role-play workarounds for things like this, to the common player these may be hard to come by or even accept. And that's assuming every "good" player in Freeport is going to make the role-play effort in the first place. We can't hide what we are to other players and having the game attempt to artificially hide us would probably be clunky at best. So barring all that, it just seems easier to dis-allow classes from continuing their profession in a city where they're not really welcome.</div>

[mylin1]

<div></div><p>Well one of the things i miss about EQ1 was my human necromancer sneaking through the sewers to find his trainers under the good city. There isn’t any reason that a small band of evil people couldn’t set up a base below Qeynos as a way to corrupt the city and bring about its end - these could offer evil classes on the good side - sure you would have to sneak past agro mobs in down below and find their hidden enclave but that would be the price (and fun) of playing something against the city.your faction with Qeynos would start poor meaning you would pay more money for goods and perhaps only your racial section of town would deal with you for trading .. forcing you to use the black market to gain supplies etc..same for good people hiding under freeport - a group of paladins setting up a camp to fight for the freedom and justice of the oppressed freeportians..thinking outside the you are x race x class so you start in x  city you could add a lot of immersive detail that would be entertaining and challenging.Mylin - no puppy slaying club.</p><div></div>

[MadLordOfMilk]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/zzz_b_cry.png"><hr></blockquote>Suck it up.</span></div>

[Taisia]

<div></div>Won't this all be moot when Pub 19 goes live since you will start as your chosen profession?   An SK will be able to betray as an SK?  There was a note about the betrayal quest not changing for now, but in the future planning to change and make betrayal possible at any level.

[MadLordOfMilk]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Taisia wrote:<div></div>Won't this all be moot when Pub 19 goes live since you will start as your chosen profession?   An SK will be able to betray as an SK?  There was a note about the betrayal quest not changing for now, but in the future planning to change and make betrayal possible at any level.<hr></blockquote>No, an SK turns into a Paladin when he betrays FP and moves into Qeynos.</span></div>

[Alteri_1]

<div></div><p>In game terms, Lucan isn't going to pay a bent copper on any sort of urban renewal.  He's evil, and not the least bit concerned about you further then making sure you don't ferment rebellion.  That said, the inner districts should remain fundamentally the same.  However, the reality of ethnic/racial dynamics would dictate that the peoples personal living areas, the housing districts, would start to take on a more personal feel.  I'm all for the housing districts being made to better reflect the nature of the primary inhabitants.  This could also be used to play into the tensions between races sharing districts, and provide a Great opportunity to create more low level district quests.</p>

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>LadyEternity wrote:<div></div><p>I rather agree. But I am more for them re-doing the texturing on Freeport. Just because they are evil doesn't mean they live in squaller. And it would be neat if each zone reflected it's inhabitants...instead of all looking the same. When you go into Longshadow Alley...you should know immediatly that Dark Elves reside there.</p><hr></blockquote>It's not so much that it's evil living in squallor, it's the fact Freeport is ruled over by a dictator.  If you look at the state of cities in the Eastern Bloc prior to 1989 when the Wall fell, you would see it is a reflection of the type of leadership.  In a dictatorship, the division between the haves and the have-nots is a lot more explicit with the have-nots living in.. well.. squallor.Being a student of history and having actually seen places with my own eyes which were under dictatorship type rule, I applaud the devs for capturing it so well.If you talk to the residents of the Freeport 'burbs, they all express the same annoyance and agrevation for being -forced- to live like that.</span><div></div>

[Magu]

Sorry, but what you want will never come to pass.<div></div>

[Maroger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>LadyEternity wrote:<div></div><p>I rather agree. But I am more for them re-doing the texturing on Freeport. Just because they are evil doesn't mean they live in squaller. And it would be neat if each zone reflected it's inhabitants...instead of all looking the same. When you go into Longshadow Alley...you should know immediatly that Dark Elves reside there.</p><hr></blockquote>It's not so much that it's evil living in squallor, it's the fact Freeport is ruled over by a dictator.  If you look at the state of cities in the Eastern Bloc prior to 1989 when the Wall fell, you would see it is a reflection of the type of leadership.  In a dictatorship, the division between the haves and the have-nots is a lot more explicit with the have-nots living in.. well.. squallor.Being a student of history and having actually seen places with my own eyes which were under dictatorship type rule, I applaud the devs for capturing it so well.If you talk to the residents of the Freeport 'burbs, they all express the same annoyance and agrevation for being -forced- to live like that.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well I traveled in E. Europe back in the 1960's and I don't remember Prague ever looking like a modern day Parisian banlieu! I know you are talking about the E Berlin and Moscow type concrete apartment blocks -- but that didn't mean they were squalid and filthy. Freeport suburbs have been made squalid and filthy by some artist devoid of imagination. A good artist could make them attractive but still evocative of a dictatorship and not a modern European Slum. The textures need to be redone!! And why wouldn't there be grass inside the town in the parks -- you know dictators had parks too!!</p><p> </p>

[MadLordOfMilk]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>LadyEternity wrote:<div></div><p>I rather agree. But I am more for them re-doing the texturing on Freeport. Just because they are evil doesn't mean they live in squaller. And it would be neat if each zone reflected it's inhabitants...instead of all looking the same. When you go into Longshadow Alley...you should know immediatly that Dark Elves reside there.</p><hr></blockquote>It's not so much that it's evil living in squallor, it's the fact Freeport is ruled over by a dictator.  If you look at the state of cities in the Eastern Bloc prior to 1989 when the Wall fell, you would see it is a reflection of the type of leadership.  In a dictatorship, the division between the haves and the have-nots is a lot more explicit with the have-nots living in.. well.. squallor.Being a student of history and having actually seen places with my own eyes which were under dictatorship type rule, I applaud the devs for capturing it so well.If you talk to the residents of the Freeport 'burbs, they all express the same annoyance and agrevation for being -forced- to live like that.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well I traveled in E. Europe back in the 1960's and I don't remember Prague ever looking like a modern day Parisian banlieu! I know you are talking about the E Berlin and Moscow type concrete apartment blocks -- but that didn't mean they were squalid and filthy. Freeport suburbs have been made squalid and filthy by some artist devoid of imagination. A good artist could make them attractive but still evocative of a dictatorship and not a modern European Slum. The textures need to be redone!! And why wouldn't there be grass inside the town in the parks -- you know dictators had parks too!!</p><hr></blockquote><img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/iamwithstupid.gif">This isn't real life... so, SOE finally gives you the option to betray at any level, and rather than say "thanks!" you say "pff, give me more! GIMME!!!!!! <img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/willy_nilly.gif">" Take what you get and accept it, don't beg for more <img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/teefspank.gif"></span></div>

[Maroger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MadLordOfMilk wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>LadyEternity wrote:<div></div><p>I rather agree. But I am more for them re-doing the texturing on Freeport. Just because they are evil doesn't mean they live in squaller. And it would be neat if each zone reflected it's inhabitants...instead of all looking the same. When you go into Longshadow Alley...you should know immediatly that Dark Elves reside there.</p><hr></blockquote>It's not so much that it's evil living in squallor, it's the fact Freeport is ruled over by a dictator.  If you look at the state of cities in the Eastern Bloc prior to 1989 when the Wall fell, you would see it is a reflection of the type of leadership.  In a dictatorship, the division between the haves and the have-nots is a lot more explicit with the have-nots living in.. well.. squallor.Being a student of history and having actually seen places with my own eyes which were under dictatorship type rule, I applaud the devs for capturing it so well.If you talk to the residents of the Freeport 'burbs, they all express the same annoyance and agrevation for being -forced- to live like that.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well I traveled in E. Europe back in the 1960's and I don't remember Prague ever looking like a modern day Parisian banlieu! I know you are talking about the E Berlin and Moscow type concrete apartment blocks -- but that didn't mean they were squalid and filthy. Freeport suburbs have been made squalid and filthy by some artist devoid of imagination. A good artist could make them attractive but still evocative of a dictatorship and not a modern European Slum. The textures need to be redone!! And why wouldn't there be grass inside the town in the parks -- you know dictators had parks too!!</p><hr></blockquote><img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/iamwithstupid.gif">This isn't real life... so, SOE finally gives you the option to betray at any level, and rather than say "thanks!" you say "pff, give me more! GIMME!!!!!! <img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/willy_nilly.gif">" Take what you get and accept it, don't beg for more <img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/teefspank.gif"></span></div><hr></blockquote>You are missing the point :smileymad: I want a clean city not a Parisian banlieu :smileytongue:

[ZadooEQ]

There are things in both cities that grate on those that live there. Dirty slums versus having to listen to endlessly chipper elves saying "Another lovely day in the city of Qeynos!" . . . There are days when no amount of clean cobblestones will make THAT bearable. No wonder the Qeynos guards have taken to randomly slaughtering pets after listening to that all day. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  And, actually, I loved the fact that you could climb the uneven stones in the walls of the Freeport slums to get up to balconies. You can't do that in Qeynos! And the apartments in Qeynos have a much lower roof--in Freeport you can stack/remove furniture to create a lovely second floor.The squalor gives you the impetus to claw your way up and out...over the bodies of your neighbors if necessary. It's character-building. <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div>

[Happyfunba]

<div>I really don't think it's asking too much for Freeport's city sections to look a little more diversified, nor do I think the OP is whining about it.</div><div> </div><div>I always felt the portrayal of Freeport was not the best choice they could have made. It almost seemed lazy to me. Even if they were intent on making the village areas appear dirty and in shambles, it could have easily been done in a more diverse manner instead of the same type of ruined buildings in each area.</div><div> </div><div>Lucan may not have cared to invest in these communities, but I find it hard to believe he'd waste resources on preventing the races from adjusting their own living arrangements either. To that effect, I have no doubt they would normally attempt to at least mimick the kind of quarters they were accustomed to living in. If there is a role-play reason why absolutely everyone in Freeport is fine living in exactly the same type of rundown building, I'd be interested in hearing it.</div>

[Robert Paulson]

<div></div><p>Where i agree that Freeport could use a little touch up, I disagree that the touch ups need to be cosmetic. Freeport is supposed to look the way it does not because we are evil but because of the type of rule that wants to keep control over it's citizens.</p><p>Touch ups that would be nice:</p><p>a bank in EFP for one</p><p>Expand on the area near the housing in NFP ....  vendors, docks, something interactive.</p><p>I can live without these changes and like Freeport the way it is but i like to roleplay and i think the city fits but it would be nice to at least have a bank in EFP hehe</p><p> </p>

[MadLordOfMilk]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>MadLordOfMilk wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>LadyEternity wrote:<div></div><p>I rather agree. But I am more for them re-doing the texturing on Freeport. Just because they are evil doesn't mean they live in squaller. And it would be neat if each zone reflected it's inhabitants...instead of all looking the same. When you go into Longshadow Alley...you should know immediatly that Dark Elves reside there.</p><hr></blockquote>It's not so much that it's evil living in squallor, it's the fact Freeport is ruled over by a dictator.  If you look at the state of cities in the Eastern Bloc prior to 1989 when the Wall fell, you would see it is a reflection of the type of leadership.  In a dictatorship, the division between the haves and the have-nots is a lot more explicit with the have-nots living in.. well.. squallor.Being a student of history and having actually seen places with my own eyes which were under dictatorship type rule, I applaud the devs for capturing it so well.If you talk to the residents of the Freeport 'burbs, they all express the same annoyance and agrevation for being -forced- to live like that.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well I traveled in E. Europe back in the 1960's and I don't remember Prague ever looking like a modern day Parisian banlieu! I know you are talking about the E Berlin and Moscow type concrete apartment blocks -- but that didn't mean they were squalid and filthy. Freeport suburbs have been made squalid and filthy by some artist devoid of imagination. A good artist could make them attractive but still evocative of a dictatorship and not a modern European Slum. The textures need to be redone!! And why wouldn't there be grass inside the town in the parks -- you know dictators had parks too!!</p><hr></blockquote><img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/iamwithstupid.gif">This isn't real life... so, SOE finally gives you the option to betray at any level, and rather than say "thanks!" you say "pff, give me more! GIMME!!!!!! <img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/willy_nilly.gif">" Take what you get and accept it, don't beg for more <img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/teefspank.gif"></span></div><hr></blockquote>You are missing the point :smileymad: I want a clean city not a Parisian banlieu :smileytongue:<hr></blockquote>Go to Qeynos then <span>:smileytongue:</span></span></div>

[your savior]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div>I would love to betray my SK to Qeynos without losing the class. Maybe if he kept his class he should work for factions or something.</div><div> </div><div>To be honest I find Freeport a really dingy, dirty city. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if you cleaned it up a bit like they are doing in EQ1 but right not it is downright UGLY!!</div><div> </div><div>Who wants to live in a concrete city where all the zones are pretty unattractive?</div><hr></blockquote>It makes sense to stop progressing as a SK and become a Paladin when you betray. Why don't you just wait it out and move to Maj'dul?</span></div>

[Maroger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MadLordOfMilk wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>MadLordOfMilk wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>LadyEternity wrote:<div></div><p>I rather agree. But I am more for them re-doing the texturing on Freeport. Just because they are evil doesn't mean they live in squaller. And it would be neat if each zone reflected it's inhabitants...instead of all looking the same. When you go into Longshadow Alley...you should know immediatly that Dark Elves reside there.</p><hr></blockquote>It's not so much that it's evil living in squallor, it's the fact Freeport is ruled over by a dictator.  If you look at the state of cities in the Eastern Bloc prior to 1989 when the Wall fell, you would see it is a reflection of the type of leadership.  In a dictatorship, the division between the haves and the have-nots is a lot more explicit with the have-nots living in.. well.. squallor.Being a student of history and having actually seen places with my own eyes which were under dictatorship type rule, I applaud the devs for capturing it so well.If you talk to the residents of the Freeport 'burbs, they all express the same annoyance and agrevation for being -forced- to live like that.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well I traveled in E. Europe back in the 1960's and I don't remember Prague ever looking like a modern day Parisian banlieu! I know you are talking about the E Berlin and Moscow type concrete apartment blocks -- but that didn't mean they were squalid and filthy. Freeport suburbs have been made squalid and filthy by some artist devoid of imagination. A good artist could make them attractive but still evocative of a dictatorship and not a modern European Slum. The textures need to be redone!! And why wouldn't there be grass inside the town in the parks -- you know dictators had parks too!!</p><hr></blockquote><img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/iamwithstupid.gif">This isn't real life... so, SOE finally gives you the option to betray at any level, and rather than say "thanks!" you say "pff, give me more! GIMME!!!!!! <img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/willy_nilly.gif">" Take what you get and accept it, don't beg for more <img src="http://smiles.dnbarena.ru/teefspank.gif"></span></div><hr></blockquote>You are missing the point :smileymad: I want a clean city not a Parisian banlieu :smileytongue:<hr></blockquote>Go to Qeynos then <span>:smileytongue:</span></span></div><p></p><p></p><hr><p>Little children are best seen and not heard especially when they have nothing intelligent to say.</p><p></p></blockquote>

[Magu]

So why are you still posting? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Reena617]

<div></div><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana" color="#ff33cc"></font><hr>I just hate the way they turned all of Freeport into a concrete slum and as DE living in Longshadow Alley --- why does it have to be so dirty!! DE don't like dirt and the old Neriak was a lovely city.<hr></blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana" color="#ff33cc">Agreed.. when I think DE, or evil in general, I think WAY over the top luxury and decadence.  Not a trash heap run by slum lords.</font>

[your savior]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Reena617 wrote:<font size="1" color="#ff33cc" face="Verdana">Agreed.. when I think DE, or evil in general, I think WAY over the top luxury and decadence.  Not a trash heap run by slum lords.</font><hr></blockquote>I think the same about Dark Elves b</span><span>ut it isn't a Dark Elf city.  The condition of the city is controlled by its ruler; apparently a selfish one by the looks of the streets.  I'm just saying that it's plausible to have an evil city look that way; a trash heap run by slum lords.</span></div>

[FatalPhoenix]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Anthelios wrote:<div></div><p>I have no real issue with the appearance of the um....slums that players first arrive to when they reach Freeport.</p><p>For me it is incentive to get out there and get some cash behind me so I can move to a nicer part of town.</p><hr></blockquote>Good point.