Questions about the new AA system

[Kaan]

<div>I was reading on the KoS website about the AA points, it says they will beable to be aquired after the adventure level of 20.  Now, are the characters that are already above the level of 20 going to recieve AA points right from the start?  My 53 Troubador will have missed out on 33 levels of AA points and after the new Expansion comes out, will only have 17 more levels to aquire and uterlize them.  As apposed to the 50 levels a new player would get to gain and uterlize their AA points, leaving all the higher level people at a distinct disadvantage when it comes to being tweaked out with their speciality skills.</div><div> </div><div>Has anything been mentioned on how this will be handled?  Will it be addressed at all, or are the veteran players surppose to just suck it up and assume we are better for the simple fact that we were playing when the game was actually difficult and their was a penality for dying?  Any ideas or knowledge on this guys?  And I appologize fi this has been addressed before, I did do a small search but nothing major on the forums for it.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks alot!</div>

[Rijacki]

They're not the same AA you had in EQ1. I am speculating, but the Alternate skills you can obtain at 20 most likley won't be ones you are interested in having or will help you at all at 53.They Alternet skills won't even be on the same point to skill system as AA in EQ1.  Some of them will even be quested.<div></div>

[Kaan]

<div>hey, you can never know when a creative person can find a good use for a level 20 ability.  But what about my level 50+ AA's?  Will I be given the option to choose from them? Or once again will i be left High and dry with no way of gaining those missed levels?</div>

[Saetyr]

<div></div>sometimes it pays to be creative, you are right...  i know many times that i have been in a long fight and not had enuf power to complete a HO, and type /usea taunt to complete the HO just cause the power cost is low enough that i can use it when i have like 10 power left

[Sritt]

<div></div><p>You can start earning Achievement points at 20, they don't specify when you will have enough points to be able to buy you're first ability. On test right now we can see the achievement screen (its in with the skills window 'L').</p><p>We get a class icon image background on most of it which is empty, and an experience bar across the top. If you mouse over it you see a breakdown of five fields and how many achievements of those types we have plus the % to level. Below the bar is an 'available points' field. Of course my characters are all under 20 so everything is 0's. Those on last night over 20 weren't getting anything so it looks like we get teased with the window and that the points can only be earned in KoS beta currently. As for when it goes live with teh expansion you may not be able to earn points unless you have the expansion (or you might be able to earn points and levels but can't buy any achievements without the expansion).</p><p>There are 5 paths of abilities and you can't get them all. Everyone will have the same chance at the same abilities for their class. I suspect the only level gating on them will be the availability of achievements to do at any particular level.</p><p>This discussion will be better talked about on the KoS board as the test server has nothing to do with the expansion beta.</p>

[Amocus]

No you won't just get them, I imagine you will have to earn them. Why in the world would they just be handed to you. You didn't miss anything as they were never there to get in the first place. Sheesh.If you are afraid of missing out on the lower level one's, play an alt. I mean, comon..<div></div>

[Kaan]

<div>Uhhh...you're wrong.  What will be missed is the 33 levels of experience I gained.  What good does rolling an alt do?  Can I put those AA's with my main...No.  If you're level 60, you've missed out on 40 levels of XP that could have went towards those AA's, leaving those at lower levels at a very distinct advantage over those at higher. </div><div> </div><div>The only plausable thing I can see them doing, if they don't just hand them over as you say, is to give some kind of bonus AA XP gain for those over 20 already.  The point is, everyone over 20 has already DONE some of the requirements and will not recieve the same rewards as other people lower.  Exploring, Killing specific mobs, gaining levels; as it states on KOS's website are all ways of gaining AA's.  As far as the questing goes, of course I don't expect to be given automatic achievement of the quests thats lower them me...I'll mentor if I have too.  But I can't go back in time and regain those levels OR re explore those areas, thus us at higher levels are at a distinct disadvantage.</div><div> </div><div>And as far as needing KoS to get the AA's...Mine's already preordered  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> so I'm sure to beable to get them  ^^.</div>

[Magu]

Except from the descriptions of the new AA system I've seen, XP is NOT how you earn them. Other things you do such as killing certain nameds, finding certain loot, and doing certain quests will get you points.<div></div>

[Rolande']

<div></div> It also says "Advancing their adventure level" .. so in essence yes XP does count, and he is saying that lower levels will be able to get more than his main because he has already leveled 33 levels above 20 without gaining AA points for each level.

[Robert Paulson]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>I dont agree that you should be given AA's simply because you are above the lvl required to start them when introduced.</div><div> </div><div>Exception - Quests that give AA's if they add AA rewards  to quests that say you've already done then you should naturally get those free AA's. Even though you have missed out on 30 some odd lvls of AA's your still going to have access to the same exact AA's that a lvl 20 does. If you think about it you have it easier at a higher lvl (depending how they are gained) If you put a portion of XP towards AA advancement you have the advantage already being higher lvl. Now those just starting out or lower lvl then you are going to take that much longer to reach your level.</div><div> </div><div>If AA's are not gained by XP and more like combat skills/spells i think you would automatically get them or have access to them just like any other spell/ability they add into the game. </div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Robert Paulson on <span class="date_text">01-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:47 AM</span></p>

[Mathe]

<div>I can see potential problems for higher level characters depending on the rate you gain achievement experience in comparison to how much you need to gain the abilities.</div><div> </div><div>Gaining levels and visiting locations are both ways of gaining achievement points. A high level character will potentially lose on what could very well be a lot of achievement points by virtue of already viewing a location and gaining levels. Since I don't know the gain rates, it is hard to say. It may very well be that even without the points from all that a level 60 player can get all the expected amount of AA off the content in the next expansion, which wouldn't be a big deal.</div><div> </div><div>Let's say you can get 10 AA abilities, but gaining AA abilities is built around a level 20 charater going to level 70, but a level 60 character with everything done before AA is added can only get 3 AA abilities from the new content, then I can see where adding AA points retroactively could be neccessary.</div><div> </div><div>However, it is really hard to say whether they need to add AA points retroactively without knowing relative AA gain. If relative AA gain is about equal irregardless than it would be better for everyone to start off on a clean slate.</div>

[Magu]

<blockquote><hr>Rolande' wrote:<div></div> It also says "Advancing their adventure level" .. so in essence yes XP does count, and he is saying that lower levels will be able to get more than his main because he has already leveled 33 levels above 20 without gaining AA points for each level.<hr></blockquote>Ah... I must've missed the adventure level part.In that case, yes, level 60 characters when the AA system goes live should get all the bonuses a level 20 character would have gotten as they levelled to 60. Otherwise it'd just be blatantly unfair.

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:<blockquote><hr>Rolande' wrote:<div></div> It also says "Advancing their adventure level" .. so in essence yes XP does count, and he is saying that lower levels will be able to get more than his main because he has already leveled 33 levels above 20 without gaining AA points for each level.<hr></blockquote>Ah... I must've missed the adventure level part.In that case, yes, level 60 characters when the AA system goes live should get all the bonuses a level 20 character would have gotten as they levelled to 60. Otherwise it'd just be blatantly unfair.<hr></blockquote>When they did the revamp of the Varsoon's loot, there were some very nice chest pieces added.  Should those people who were already 50+ have automatically gotten a chest piece of their archetype/class just because the zone was grey to them when the new loot was added, but if it had been there when they were in their 20s or 30s they would have gotten it?</span><div></div>

[darkjb69]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span><blockquote> </blockquote>When they did the revamp of the Varsoon's loot, there were some very nice chest pieces added.  Should those people who were already 50+ have automatically gotten a chest piece of their archetype/class just because the zone was grey to them when the new loot was added, but if it had been there when they were in their 20s or 30s they would have gotten it?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>No of course not - but the concept is not the same - I can still buy those chest pieces if I want to from someone who can still get them - BUT I surely won't be able to buy AAs that people earn from the 20ish content that's grey to me.  The OP has a very valid concern I think and it's simply this:</p><p>Will there be someway for us to earn those AA's from lower level mobs, etc without mentoring?</p><p>Or will those of us who've put in the time to advance our main characters over the last year plus be punished for playing the game longer than new players?  I shouldn't have to create an alt and play him instead of the mian I've played since launch just to get the full benefit of AAs.  As long as the AA system will allow me to complete those lower level quests and such still then I'm happy and I can still get access to those benefits on the main I want to play and have played since the beginning.  I don't want to have to mentor cause I cant find people to mentor often anyways.  I find lower level areas usually empty more often than not.  And what of those of us who have used all of our character lots and can't create another alt without deleting one of our existing ones?  I'd like to see a Dev respond to this concern.</p>

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>darkjb69 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span><blockquote> </blockquote>When they did the revamp of the Varsoon's loot, there were some very nice chest pieces added.  Should those people who were already 50+ have automatically gotten a chest piece of their archetype/class just because the zone was grey to them when the new loot was added, but if it had been there when they were in their 20s or 30s they would have gotten it?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>No of course not - but the concept is not the same - I can still buy those chest pieces if I want to from someone who can still get them</p><hr></blockquote>They're No Trade, so you would have to be there with them to buy them.  Thus it is a similar concept.</span><div></div>

[Mathe]

<div></div><blockquote><hr><span>They're No Trade, so you would have to be there with them to buy them.  Thus it is a similar concept.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Not really. They might be nice when you get them, but eventually they will be replaced by better higher level items. A Fabled level 20 item is far worse than a level 60 handcrafted item. Depending on the how the AA skills are set up, the first one you gain might very well still be viable for a level 60 character. I haven't seen any of them yet, so I can't be sure. However, look at Gnoll or Orc Master's Strike and they are still useful to a level 60 character fighting an Orc or a Gnoll, even though they got the skill at level 10. Now find one piece of equipment for a level 10 player that is still useful at level 60. There is a difference between the two.

[Kaan]

<div>First let me thank everyone thats posted, great ideas and many concerns guys.</div><div> </div><div>What I see going around, atleast towards the end of the list before I posted is the concept of lower dungeons getting a revamp on their loot tables.  This really isn't the same concept.  Say this, at level 20 you start getting the ability to get AA's, by level 23, say, you get your first AA  You can chose for a varying amount.  Some may be new spell abilities, others may be a fluff spell, but others may be something like +3 to str or +3% to your mana.  Now, where as the fluff spells would be fun through any levels...the new spell/art abilities may prove to be useless later (Depending on how nad if they scale) but the pluses to stats would be beneficial to any level character.</div><div> </div><div>Now, the biggest concern is:  What are the AA's and how are they going to function.  I've yet to see any answer to those questions and this leaves us at a distinct disadvantage when trying to figure it out.  It may end up being that this whole thread becomes pointless because of the way they impliment them.  I don't think this has any relation to a greyed out dungeon scenario, but it does have a relation to balancing out the game with higher vs lower level and giving each level their fair reward for what they've done.  Of course their will be lower level quests that we have to mentor to do so we can get AA's, theirs quests added all the time that we have to mentor down to, if we want to do.  But the missing on out X number of levels is a bit unfair..not matter how its rationalized.</div><div> </div><div>If you are working somewhere...have been working there for a year..making $9/hr and they start hiring people to do the job you're doing, but increase their pay to $10/hr at start, would that not be unfair?  Its the same concept here, they have increased the playability for all new characters, giving them the ability to do this, however the higher level players already have surppassed that, but they are forcing them to stay where they are going..."Well, if you want to be like them you're going to have to work hard"  We've already been here a year, do we not deserve the "Higher pay rate". </div><div> </div><div>This is something that I think SOE really needs to consider, if they haven't already.  I do look forward to what they plan, not that I'll be happy with all their choices, I very well could be rather miffed at it; but I still look forward to it.</div>

[Iseabeil]

<div>If lower levels advancement choises are usable at higher tiers, there has to be a way to earn them without mentoring. As a level 60 I shouldnt need to '/ooc 60 swashie looking for lvl 20-25 to mentor in TS pst' just so I can get skills that I might need. No one cept for those in beta knows how the system works, but say it works like skill trees in SWG.... To max a skill Id need the bottom in such case.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[SaiyanBlood]

<div>.,.,.,.,.</div><p>Message Edited by SaiyanBlood on <span class="date_text">01-29-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:12 PM</span></p>

[Alteri_1]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Matheau wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr><span>They're No Trade, so you would have to be there with them to buy them.  Thus it is a similar concept.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Not really. They might be nice when you get them, <font color="#66cc00"><u>but eventually they will be replaced by better higher level</u></font><font color="#ffffff"> items</font>. A Fabled level 20 item is far worse than a level 60 handcrafted item. Depending on the how the AA skills are set up, the first one you gain might very well still be viable for a level 60 character. I haven't seen any of them yet, so I can't be sure. However, look at Gnoll or Orc Master's Strike and they are still useful to a level 60 character fighting an Orc or a Gnoll, even though they got the skill at level 10. Now find one piece of equipment for a level 10 player that is still useful at level 60. There is a difference between the two.<hr></blockquote>Which is also a possibility in regards to the new AA skills.  Until it becomes public on how they will work, is it really necessary to attack each other?  :smileywink:

[Magu]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span>They're No Trade, so you would have to be there with them to buy them.  Thus it is a similar concept.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Clueless... All a person has to do is mentor  and wow, I can get the items!It's not similar at all.</span></div>

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span>They're No Trade, so you would have to be there with them to buy them.  Thus it is a similar concept.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Clueless... All a person has to do is mentor  and wow, I can get the items!It's not similar at all.</span></div><hr></blockquote>You could also mentor to do the quest (nearly all quests do not have a max level) or kill the named or whatever.</span><div></div>

[Mathe]

<div>I don't see why people are talking about mentoring to do quests. There are lots of ways to gain AA points without mentoring. Keep in mind there is still the 10 more levels when the level cap goes up, any rare loot, new locations, and new level equivalent quests, which will all give AA. Which all come in the same expansion as AA.</div><div> </div><div>Without knowing what the AA skills it is hard to say just how useful they are. There are a lot of skills that have effects which are useful at any level. Like Scout Cheap Shot, for example, one of the first skills they get is still very useful at any level.</div>

[Rhianni]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>kyricus wrote:No you won't just get them, I imagine you will have to earn them. Why in the world would they just be handed to you. You didn't miss anything as they were never there to get in the first place. Sheesh.If you are afraid of missing out on the lower level one's, play an alt. I mean, comon..<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yeah people love the idea of their lvl 60 character that has 1,000+ quests done, all the HQs and a full set of fabled gear starting over.  I am hoping SOE is coming up with a system that offers lvl 20s something fun but wont leave the lvl 60s missing out on stuff they need at their level.