Stealth vs. Sneak

[Zukkorie]

<div></div><div>As it stands right now on test, a Ranger gets a skill called Stealth where it states that he is able to see Invis. Which is what used to be the Scout skill which all Scouts got by Level 3. When said Scout became a Predator he got a new Stealth at 17 which allows them to see Stealthed. Is this an oversight or is this intended? Because a Swashbuckler on test gets a skill called Sneak at level 1 which allows them to see Stealthed where as before they would keep the Scout Stealth and did not get an upgrade when they were a Rogue.</div><div> </div><div>The overall concern is Swashbucklers can see Stealth, Rangers cannot. If this is intended this puts Rangers at a huge disadvantage. Same holds true for the respective Freeport classes, which one would imagine could be even more devastating for the Assassin. Imagine trying to sneak up on a group in PvP where every darn Swashy can see you coming a mile away? Thank you.</div><p>Message Edited by Zukkorie on <span class="date_text">01-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:02 AM</span></p>

[Sritt]

<div></div>THe dirge stealth skill at start has no see stealth ability, not sure about the bard. If the ranger one says it grants see invis that may just be a text typo and it grants see stealth, the problem is I can't figure out if there's actually a difference on these two as the 'stealthing' mobs are hidden to both my swashbuckler in stealth mode (supposedly with see stealth) and my warlock with his see invisibility up.

[ilucife]

as you pointed out it only effects pvp most mobs in the game are invis, so therefor rogues are at a disatvantage. as far as pvp goes you can just by a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] invis totem and a see stealth totem if your that worried about it, they are cheap. but if you want to talk about balance i dont think its fair that at lvl 60 a lvl 57 ranger can kill me in 2 shots, but maybe im an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]<div></div>

[Sritt]

<div></div>Actually the mobs are supposedly using stealth now not invis if they're a scout class. ANd if they used invis my warlock should see them as he has 'see invis'. But he can't see them and neither can my swashbuckler with 'see stealth' even on green and blue con mobs. I'm really thinking hte scout mobs are breaking all stealth rules when they stealth (as well as their combat AI).

[MadLordOfMilk]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:Actually the mobs are supposedly using stealth now not invis if they're a scout class. ANd if they used invis my warlock should see them as he has 'see invis'. But he can't see them and <b>neither can my swashbuckler with 'see stealth' even on green and blue con mobs</b>. I'm really thinking hte scout mobs are breaking all stealth rules when they stealth (as well as their combat AI).<hr></blockquote></span><div><span><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:THe dirge stealth skill at start has no see stealth ability, not sure about the bard. If the ranger one says it grants see invis that may just be a text typo and it grants see stealth, the problem is I can't figure out if there's actually a difference on these two as <b>the 'stealthing' mobs are hidden to both my swashbuckler in stealth mode (supposedly with see stealth)</b> and my warlock with his see invisibility up.<hr></blockquote>Wrong - I've got a Swashy and a Brig on test, and if I used invis after a mob did, I could see it.</span></div></div>

[Keyh]

<span><blockquote><hr>MadLordOfMilk wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:Actually the mobs are supposedly using stealth now not invis if they're a scout class. ANd if they used invis my warlock should see them as he has 'see invis'. But he can't see them and <b>neither can my swashbuckler with 'see stealth' even on green and blue con mobs</b>. I'm really thinking hte scout mobs are breaking all stealth rules when they stealth (as well as their combat AI).<hr></blockquote></span><div><span><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:THe dirge stealth skill at start has no see stealth ability, not sure about the bard. If the ranger one says it grants see invis that may just be a text typo and it grants see stealth, the problem is I can't figure out if there's actually a difference on these two as <b>the 'stealthing' mobs are hidden to both my swashbuckler in stealth mode (supposedly with see stealth)</b> and my warlock with his see invisibility up.<hr></blockquote>Wrong - I've got a Swashy and a Brig on test, and if I used invis after a mob did, I could see it.</span></div></div><hr></blockquote>Now, if Sritthh is talking about on Live, he'd be correct, Snoop currently does not grant See Stealth as it says. On Test it does work however.</span><div></div>

[Sritt]

<div></div><p>I am talking about on test and I've not had my Swashbuckler able to see them, nor can my warlock. My warlock however can see stealthed players (though maybe he can anway as a level 12 warlock the one I saw was a 7 ranger and that might be enough level difference to let him see the ranger anyway).</p><p>THink it was the queen's colony feedback thread said there was a fix coming for the stealthing mobs so after it goes into test I'll have to check again and rats seem a good one to check it on as they seem to more reliably stay stealthed for 10+ minutes. I just hope the fix means we can pull them back out of stealth like mobs can to us currently and that it won't break our target lock. I have no problem with a mob going stealth and staying hidden if nobody is actively attacking it at the time but if someone is they shouldn't be able to break target lock and be unhittable even by untargetted AE spells and abilities since the player's don't get to do it with the same skill.</p>

[Zukkorie]

<div></div><p>I don't know about casters and such. But I've been checking this out and as it stands a Ranger of equal level to a Swashy can not see the Swashy while Stealthed while the Swashy can see him. Same of course goes for the Freeport side of these classes. This is of great concern to me because I am planning on starting over on the PvP servers when they come up and was intending on a Ranger. What is the point of being the premier Stealth DPS class when any Brigand can see me while I can't see him? We (Predators and Rogues) need to both be able to see one another.</p><p>On the PvP servers we will be the only thing able to police the other. As it stands, who will be able to police Brigands and Swashbucklers? The only class that has a See Stealth other then themselves is a Fury. People are afraid that half the server will make a Ranger or Assassin and that the PvP will be so out of whack they will want to quit. That's the way it's always been, at least at first. Everyone makes what they think will be a gank class. They will level it to about 30 and realise it's not really that fun to play PvE or PvP and go make something else. By the time you hit the high end most "gank" classes have thinned out to the point they are as common as every other classes.</p><p>All I would like is an official word if this is intended or not. Thank you.</p>

[ilucife]

yeah and as it stands a ranger can kill a swashy or brig in about 2 hits. so you can bacically insta kill them and see them invis...is that fair? is that balanced? i would have to say no.<div></div>