Amazing Job Devs...

[AeonSto]

Simply amazing, I think the devs of this game are awesome, they have shown in the past that they are willing to change the game to fit the needs/desires of their player base. ive never seen a gaming company willing to do that and listen to their players so much.I come from WoW where the devs wont add anything unless it was their original vision and the players have little to no input. Now with EQ2 we have got rid of group xp debt, locked combat, archetype branching system, etc..Your game is becoming better and better with every patch, and this latest one that lets us be the class we want to be straight from level 1 is no less then amazing. Me and all my friends who play love it, and think that you guys will likely be getting a lot more new customers who were previously turned off this game due to a few poor choices at release.My only question.. you have demonstrated the ability not only to listen to your player base but to impliment needed changes for the betterment of the game (contrary to what some old timers stuck in their ways might sya around here, but they dont count anyway), why did you not do this stuff at release? I would have been here instead of WoW.Cant wait for PvP servers, keep the awesomeness coming =)<div></div>

[AratornCalahn]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>AeonStorm wrote:Simply amazing, I think the devs of this game are awesome, they have shown in the past that they are willing to change the game to fit the needs/desires of their player base. ive never seen a gaming company willing to do that and listen to their players so much.I come from WoW where the devs wont add anything unless it was their original vision and the players have little to no input. Now with EQ2 we have got rid of group xp debt, locked combat, archetype branching system, etc..Your game is becoming better and better with every patch, and this latest one that lets us be the class we want to be straight from level 1 is no less then amazing. Me and all my friends who play love it, and think that you guys will likely be getting a lot more new customers who were previously turned off this game due to a few poor choices at release.My only question.. you have demonstrated the ability not only to listen to your player base but to impliment needed changes for the betterment of the game (contrary to what some old timers stuck in their ways might sya around here, but they dont count anyway), why did you not do this stuff at release? I would have been here instead of WoW.Cant wait for PvP servers, keep the awesomeness coming =)<div></div><hr></blockquote>I think WoW took everyone by suprise - its obvious that EQ2 is changing (and has been form the start) to accomidate a much more casual style. Hopefully they wont go overboard into console (it is 'SONY' OE <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) simplicity. I like nearly all the changes so far, just hope they get some more good changes aimed at my level soon >< (like where the hell did the master and scale drop chance go rofl)I love this new island and the new char selection stuff especaily though its waaaaaaay better.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by AratornCalahn on <span class="date_text">01-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:00 PM</span></p>

[Ay]

<div>Hmm, probably because people want different things! You speak as if there is only one good way to make an MMO. The Devs have many other things to contend with too. If Devs knew 100% what the majority wanted then their job would be easy. But it's way more complicated than that.</div><div> </div><div>- Forums are not an accurate measure of what the majority wants.. esp before a game even comes out. Those people who post every 20 min on an upcomming MMO's forums are in another zone- just look at Vanguard forums. These people obsess over their own ideas and paint a picture of what the game is going to be like even without any word from the Devs about the subject. These people usually end up totally disappointed after a few months because reality doesnt live up to fantasy.</div><div>- Often times people dont really know 100% what they themselves want.</div><div>- Often times people change their mind of what they want from an MMO</div>

[AratornCalahn]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ayun wrote:<div>Hmm, probably because people want different things! You speak as if there is only one good way to make an MMO. The Devs have many other things to contend with too. If Devs knew 100% what the majority wanted then their job would be easy. But it's way more complicated than that.</div><div> </div><div>- Forums are not an accurate measure of what the majority wants.. esp before a game even comes out. Those people who post every 20 min on an upcomming MMO's forums are in another zone- just look at Vanguard forums. These people obsess over their own ideas and paint a picture of what the game is going to be like even without any word from the Devs about the subject. These people usually end up totally disappointed after a few months because reality doesnt live up to fantasy.</div><div>- Often times people dont really know 100% what they themselves want.</div><div>- Often times people change their mind of what they want from an MMO</div><hr></blockquote>And idealy you want your MMO to be so dynamic that all those diffrent wants are catered for. And if people change their mind about what they want from an MMO, yours should be ready for that with new things to do. Dont think any MMO has done that really well yet (in terms of free form gameplay... Planetside wins imo <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but thats far too specilised).</span><div></div>

[Ay]

<div></div><p>Not necessarily, some things are mutually exclusive. If you make the game too casual then hardcore raiders will be [Removed for Content] that casual players have the same gear as the hardcore raiders. If you make the game too raidy then the casual people will be [Removed for Content] that the only way to ge the best gear is to wait 2 hrs for a raid to organize then spend 6+ hrs on that raid.</p><p>I suppose if an MMO isnt going to choose to be either too casual or too raidy then EQ2 is prob about the best balance you could ask for there. You can get some nice gear while being casual but it wont drop as fast as in a raid.</p><p>The day I quit EQ2 is when legendary/fabled stuff drops for a solo player - everyone has their limits.</p>

[Sritt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ayun wrote:<div></div><p>Not necessarily, some things are mutually exclusive. If you make the game too casual then hardcore raiders will be [Removed for Content] that casual players have the same gear as the hardcore raiders. If you make the game too raidy then the casual people will be [Removed for Content] that the only way to ge the best gear is to wait 2 hrs for a raid to organize then spend 6+ hrs on that raid.</p><p>I suppose if an MMO isnt going to choose to be either too casual or too raidy then EQ2 is prob about the best balance you could ask for there. You can get some nice gear while being casual but it wont drop as fast as in a raid.</p><p>The day I quit EQ2 is when legendary/fabled stuff drops for a solo player - everyone has their limits.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Ummm so you're leaving? On test solo I've gotten legendary and fabled items. True the fabled was from a heroic that was barely green but left behind a master chest. THe legendaries though were from solo named encounters that were blue to me but do-able. Admitedly these fabled and legendary items were all off stuff in The Sprawl and Sunken City so definitely not anything a raider would be concerned about since they are around level 10 gear.</p><p>I think having legendary and fabled on solo nameds is fine, or from heroics. What I think though is that those same drops shouldn't appear on epic raid mobs and not quite as good. Risk vs. reward after all. NOthing wrong with nice legendary and okay fabled on solo/heroics but leave the best for specific quests or raids. THere are epics and even heroics out there who are immune to anything below treasured and I think even legendary quality weapons so having a way to get them helps someone break into and be useful in raiding. THe two master chests I got off heroics in SUnken City required me to get a treasured weapon (though handcrafted MIGHT have worked, didn't try) before I could even damage them, and these were level 10 mobs.</p>

[Ay]

<div>Well i'm mainly talking about solo mobs, not if you can SOLO them or not.</div>

[kenm]

<div></div>What the hell ever happened to people having to adapt to the world, not people complaining on the forums and having the world adapted to them?

[AratornCalahn]

<span><blockquote><hr>kenman wrote:<div></div>What the hell ever happened to people having to adapt to the world, not people complaining on the forums and having the world adapted to them?<hr></blockquote>Because people are smart, they realsied that they could get what they want with less hassel over in WoW.Basicaly SOE needed to adapt, since the players already have.</span><div></div>

[kenm]

<div></div><p>Then that leaves me with another question, why the hell do so many people want instant gratification?  The fun in MMORPGs is that you have to work to get what you want, it's incredibly stupid if you take out the work portion.  Go download RO and hop on one of those x100000 rate servers with NPCs selling the best items in the game incredibly cheap, tell me how much fun you have.</p>

[AratornCalahn]

<span><blockquote><hr>kenman wrote:<div></div><p>Then that leaves me with another question, why the hell do so many people want instant gratification?  The fun in MMORPGs is that you have to work to get what you want, it's incredibly stupid if you take out the work portion.  Go download RO and hop on one of those x100000 rate servers with NPCs selling the best items in the game incredibly cheap, tell me how much fun you have.</p><hr></blockquote>Tedium does not equal challange.</span><div></div>

[Sritt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>kenman wrote:<div></div>What the hell ever happened to people having to adapt to the world, not people complaining on the forums and having the world adapted to them?<hr></blockquote>Because there's competition now and if a game doesn't give people what they want they'll go to another one. There's a reason so many MMOs have come and gone while others are still around. Those that are still around give people what they want, or at least enough of the playerbase to keep the game financially feasible to the bean counters. If an MMO is too niche and caters too heavily to one playstyle they normally can't keep going and close up shop (Earth & Beyond, and that purely social one that I never heard about until they closed, Horizons almost went the way of the dodo but through some fancy back-end deals dodged the bullet more than once).

[kenm]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:<span>Tedium does not equal challange.</span><hr></blockquote>Newsflash - There's absolutely nothing challenging with this game.However, things can be tedious, non-difficult, and fun.  Watching movies? Wow, you stare at a TV for a few hours, *YAWN*.  Sex? That's gotta be the most tedious thing in the world!

[Sritt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>kenman wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>AratornCalahn wrote:<span>Tedium does not equal challange.</span><hr></blockquote>Newsflash - There's absolutely nothing challenging with this game.However, things can be tedious, non-difficult, and fun.  Watching movies? Wow, you stare at a TV for a few hours, *YAWN*.  Sex? That's gotta be the most tedious thing in the world!<hr></blockquote>Nothing challenging? Try doing quests sometime. Oh and to make sure you do it right make sure you have no map mod, use no external websites, and don't ask anyone else for help. That will give you some challenge <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[kenm]

<div></div><div>Yeah, I fail to see how any quest in the game is challenging.  IIMO, the closest one to that would be "The Journey is Half the Fun" but with the run speed increase it's trivial.  And one could argue that it's incredibly tedious because you run around seven zones.</div><div> </div><div>Please do tell me these challenging quests, here's how I've been able to categorize every quest in the game:</div><div>A. Kill X of this Mob.</div><div>  1. Minor alteration - Collect X of this item, which just has a chance of "dropping" from a particular mob.</div><div>B. Go to this place.</div><div>C. Talk to this person.</div><div>D. Run around aimlessly looking for these things that glow when your mouse hovers over them.</div><div> </div><div>That's basically it, most heritage quests just step it up a bit by doing the above and containing epic mobs.  Considering there's nothing hard with combat and dying is trivial now, getting ~12 people together is just annoying, not difficult.  It's time consuming at most, especially when you have to sit around for 6 hours waiting for a mob to spawn.</div>

[selch]

<div><blockquote><hr>kenman wrote:<div></div><div>Yeah, I fail to see how any quest in the game is challenging.  IIMO, the closest one to that would be "The Journey is Half the Fun" but with the run speed increase it's trivial.  And one could argue that it's incredibly tedious because you run around seven zones.</div><div> </div><div>Please do tell me these challenging quests, here's how I've been able to categorize every quest in the game:</div><div>A. Kill X of this Mob.</div><div>  1. Minor alteration - Collect X of this item, which just has a chance of "dropping" from a particular mob.</div><div>B. Go to this place.</div><div>C. Talk to this person.</div><div>D. Run around aimlessly looking for these things that glow when your mouse hovers over them.</div><div> </div><div>That's basically it, most heritage quests just step it up a bit by doing the above and containing epic mobs.  Considering there's nothing hard with combat and dying is trivial now, getting ~12 people together is just annoying, not difficult.  It's time consuming at most, especially when you have to sit around for 6 hours waiting for a mob to spawn.</div><hr></blockquote>E. Try reading post above yours.</div><div> </div>