New betrayal at any level?

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div><strong>City Betrayal</strong>- The city betrayal quests currently remain as they were. These quests will be changing significantly in a future update. For example, you will be able to betray your city at any level.</div><div> </div><div>I wanted to post this to see if anyone had any comments.  Betrayal at any level?  I am assuming that if you where a level 60 ranger, you could betray and stay as a ranger?  Would your class change to assassin?  Heck who knows.  I am wondering about other people's speculation.</div><div> </div><div>A freeport Paladin would be kind of an oxymoron wouldn't it?  Or a qeynos shadowknight?</div>

[Magu]

No, you would not remain a Ranger.You would end up an Assassin.They're not removing the good/evil class lines.<div></div>

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div>Wow, that's gonna be kind of odd, seeing Shadowknights walking about qharbor and what not.  I wish now one of my alts was a coercer now instead of an illusionist, based on this new information.   I really like the charm ability, and think coercer is probably a bit better class than illusionis overall.

[Krakenap]

<div>It has been specifically said in the past that if they were to allow betrayals at any level you would change your main class if you were a good only or an evil only archetype.</div><div> </div><div>I would be curious to know what that means to a level 60 guy who switches over and his class changes:  What happens to all his Adept 3 / Master abilities?  Is everything reset to App 1?</div>

[Tharangus]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Krakenappa wrote:<div>It has been specifically said in the past that if they were to allow betrayals at any level you would change your main class if you were a good only or an evil only archetype.</div><div> </div><div>I would be curious to know what that means to a level 60 guy who switches over and his class changes:  What happens to all his Adept 3 / Master abilities?  Is everything reset to App 1?</div><hr></blockquote><p>Oh... yes... some of us have been wanting this for a long time.</p><p>I have my own thoughts on how this might work.  While some abilities my translate, I would suspect that there will be many that do not and would therefore be reset to App1.  Yes, it would be a significant cost.  As I've said in previous posts about this subject, you are essentially turning away from everything you learned... and therefore must relearn everything.  Realistically, though... you would only really need to re-upgrade your current tier (with a few exceptions).  But don't listen to me... I just have my theories.</p>

[Anlari]

<div></div>If they switch at level 60 they would change classes to their good/evil counterpart and all their abilities would drop to App I.  They mentioned this previously in another post.  Only problem I have with something like this will be if its easier to level a SK for example and then change to paladin for the end-game raiding.  That might prove to be a pain in the butt in the long term, but all in all, I dont really care about betraying at any level. 

[Mistmoore-Milaga]

<div>This is a good idea.  Outlevelling your betrayal ability was the source of woe for many a new player.  Although I think it means we're going to be seeing a lot more ratonga in qeynos and elves in freeport.  Such is life.</div>

[Brong]

<div>You wont see a sk walking around in qeynos.  Once the paladin betrays to become a SK, he is now a freeport citizen, and will be treated as an evil to qeynos.  and visa versa.</div><div> </div><div>Doing the betrayal at any level is not really going to change much, but perhaps they should only allow you to betray once per char, or twice, just in case... <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div>

[Deadly Nightshadow]

What I'm wondering is if you can betray and then betray back.....Anyone know?<div></div>

[Shmogg]

<div></div>You can now if you plan ahead and don't outlevel the quest.

[QuaiCon]

 doing the betrayal will change your class if you are a good only or a evil only class. and i think i remember that i heared somewhere that all your new spells will be at app 1 again so you loose all upgrades in the process.<div></div>

[WAPCE]

Will they fix the SK class before betrayal-at-any-level goes in, or is this in lieu of it, I wonder? Just in case Paladins weren't over-abundant already... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Sirlutt]

Can i betray my Guardian and have him /respec as a Zerker ?.. lol.. please please please !<div></div>

[cr0wangel]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:Can i betray my Guardian and have him /respec as a Zerker ?.. lol.. please please please !<div></div><hr></blockquote>HA! Good one :smileyhappy:

[SkarlSpeedbu]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>cr0wangel wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:Can i betray my Guardian and have him /respec as a Zerker ?.. lol.. please please please !<div></div><hr></blockquote>HA! Good one :smileyhappy:<hr></blockquote>Well, this is kind of one of my unspoken points.  It certanily gives some advantages to the good/evil classes that may not be satisfied with their class.  What about unsatisfied people that have the same class in both cities?  This may be an issue they would probably want to think through on the front end.

[Feaw]

<div></div><div></div><div>I think the price of betrayal asside from whats obvious would be that your spells would change as you would be converted to the opposite class and loose any spell upgrades in the process.   Thats just a guess.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>LOL I see I missed the reply that said what I just did.   pardon my parroting :smileytongue:</div><p>Message Edited by Feawin on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:58 AM</span></p>

[Crolack]

<div></div><p>I think the RPers are going to love this, because RP characters can develop and change by how their RP goes.</p><p> </p>

[valadyne]

<div></div>LOL! I can just see someone betraying to freeport to get freeport only status items (LIKE NIGHTMARE HORSES!) or to even work freeport quests then betraying back to Qeynos. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[IllusiveThoughts]

<div></div><p>for those who did betray, what lvl was antonia and the overlord?</p><p> </p><p>maybe a lvl 60 betraying could kill them ?  that would be a riot.</p>

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:<p>for those who did betray, what lvl was antonia and the overlord?</p><p> </p><p>maybe a lvl 60 betraying could kill them ?  that would be a riot.</p><hr></blockquote></span>They don't have levels, they're just NPCs.<p>Message Edited by Magus` on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:51 PM</span></p>

[TwilightSea]

<div>I think if you betray your class should shift, if you are in a good/evil specific class.  Necromancers and Conjurors are good examples.  Giving the newly betrayed all app 1's seems appropriate.</div><div> </div><div>However, if some classes are allowed a method to shift their class, then I think the same needs to be extended to the non good/evil specific classes.  Beserkers and Guardians are good examples here.</div><div> </div><div>But perhaps the real issue isn't changing city allegiance, and the resulting issue of good/evil.  Maybe Antonia would consider employing a Shadow Knight if it suits her needs...  Where am I going with this?  Well, maybe we should consider a method of allowing players of one subclass to shift duties to that of another subclass aside from betrayal.  Perhaps it doesn't have to be limited to subclass.  Could we consider allowing folks to change class alltogether?  Maybe a shift from Sorceror to Summoner?  Would this be disruptive to the game?  Maybe it would be no more disruptive than the fact that anyone can choose their class when they start playing.  After all, if you play to 60 and don't like your Wizzy, you can always make a Necro and level them up...</div><div> </div><div>Can this extend to archtype changes?  Well, who knows.  But i'm guessing a line has to be drawn somewhere.  Perhaps the restriction comes from the pain of having all your abilities reset to app 1's and irrevocably losing all your old skills.  It seems harsh to me, but I'm sure it would suit some.  Especially when you consider the fact you can change sides now...  Necro spells for levels 20-50 you don't yet have are certainly going to be received as app 1's as you make levels.</div><div> </div><div>It's all an interesting topic.  I'm eager to see what the official decision is going to be.  But no worries, I have no wish to become a Templar here ; )</div>

[Magu]

Yes, it would be disruptive, and it will never happen.The only form of class changing allowed will be good->evil and the other way around in betrayal.If you pick a neutral class, or you don't want to betray, you are locked to your choice forever.<div></div>

[Gobbwin]

<div><blockquote><hr>Deadly Nightshadow wrote:What I'm wondering is if you can betray and then betray back.....Anyone know?<div></div><hr></blockquote>I'm curious about this myself.  I betrayed a long time ago to become a templar (my main is a DE).  Could I re-betray to return to FP?  I know that i'd have to switch to an inquisitor and would lose all my spells, but I really don't like Qeynos. =p</div>

[Meribor]

I'm still going to hope they eventually allow betrayal without having to change classes.  If I wanted to be a conjuror, then I would've done the betrayal quest before it was too late.  I chose necromancer and have no intention of changing my class, but that doesn't mean that I can't still want to serve Antonia Bayle instead of Lucan D'Lere.  So, it sounds as though I'm stuck for now.<div></div>

[katalmach]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Meribor wrote:I'm still going to hope they eventually allow betrayal without having to change classes.  If I wanted to be a conjuror, then I would've done the betrayal quest before it was too late.  I chose necromancer and have no intention of changing my class, but that doesn't mean that I can't still want to serve Antonia Bayle instead of Lucan D'Lere.  So, it sounds as though I'm stuck for now.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah, but why would Antonia Bayle want a necromancer to serve her? Necromancers and shadowknights and the like really don't fit in with the good side. Not saying that a necro can't be good - just saying that I don't think the good side would appreciate a necro using her (in their opinion) evil magic even if she is doing it for the good. I think while they might let you join their fight, they would probably rather you changed your magics into something that doesn't totally oppose everything they believe in.. (ie, turn into a conjuror).</p><p>I really do hope they never allow Qeynosian necromancers, Freeportian paladins and such like.. to me that would just be very wrong. But, for all I know, they might end up changing in the future..</p>

[Meribor]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>YubiMusubi wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Meribor wrote:I'm still going to hope they eventually allow betrayal without having to change classes.  If I wanted to be a conjuror, then I would've done the betrayal quest before it was too late.  I chose necromancer and have no intention of changing my class, but that doesn't mean that I can't still want to serve Antonia Bayle instead of Lucan D'Lere.  So, it sounds as though I'm stuck for now.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah, but why would Antonia Bayle want a necromancer to serve her? Necromancers and shadowknights and the like really don't fit in with the good side. Not saying that a necro can't be good - just saying that I don't think the good side would appreciate a necro using her (in their opinion) evil magic even if she is doing it for the good. I think while they might let you join their fight, they would probably rather you changed your magics into something that doesn't totally oppose everything they believe in.. (ie, turn into a conjuror).</p><p>I really do hope they never allow Qeynosian necromancers, Freeportian paladins and such like.. to me that would just be very wrong. But, for all I know, they might end up changing in the future..</p><hr></blockquote>That's your fantasy ... mine allows so-called evil characters to serve the Antonia Bayle and good characters to serve Lucan D'Lere ... so for now I guess I roleplay a "double agent" when I have to  <span>:smileywink:</span></span></div>

[Deadly Nightshadow]

What about good 'ol corruptiion?<div></div>

[Hekynn]

<div>hehe i Have been waiting for a longo time for this change to happen! Since I am a lvl 50 sk and Paladin's can heal in and out of combat! =) cant wait till it goes live!</div>

[Sritt]

<div></div><p>There's two ways to look at necromancers: the evil graverobber model (liek most veiw them and how they are in Freeport) and the spiritist calling on ancestors or fallen heros to help them turn the tide against evil. A conjuror shouldn't be restricted to good or evil, it was done with teh archetype system for balance so you didn't give Freeport 2 options and Qeynos only one. WIth the changes both could be available on either side.</p><p>The shadowknight and paladin issue is a bit trickier since these are holy knights who draw on the power of their beliefs. It could be possible that ones motives were to change but due to their training and ties their abilities still manifes int he old manner.</p><p>The monk and bruiser is again a matter of balance between teh cities. There's no reason both can't be in both cities. We have the Ashen Disciples who are essentially monks with a more evil mindset. The lines they drew for the brawlers seemed a bit over stereotyped: monks being law and tranquility and bruisers as chaotic and disorderly meaning that law = good and chaos = evil. There's no reason a brawler couldn't have good intents (hell the barbarian race quests in Qeynos has you getting into fights with other barbarians in a very bruiser-ish manner no matter what your class and the tier'dal race quests at times have the feel of the patience and plotting of a monk).</p><p>Illusionist and coercer is again a hard distinction for keeping a restriction on the new system. Why couldn't an illusionist be evil? While a coercer would be less likely to be good there's no reason one couldn't decide to use their abilities for the sake of good rather than the tempation of power over all others.</p><p>Assassin is one that would be hard to make good, but we all know that sometimes good resorts to assassination. There's even quests in teh game that have us do that in the name of good. A ranger gone evil isn't a big surprise, they got lost in the hunt like we're warned against in the old class quests for scouts in Qeynos.</p><p>Swashbucklers and brigands could be either. What better evil than the daring, handsome conman (swashbuckler). ANd Robin hood was a brigand who robbed for teh sake of good (since rich doesn't equal good).</p><p>Mystics gone bad is like having a priestly necromancer, they just succumb to dark spirits and start to abuse their power. A deflier turned good would just restrain themselves, perhaps giving up some of themselves to help others (since most of their heals as I understand it takes health from themselves).</p><p>An inquisitor turned good or a templar turned evil is just matters of redemption and corruption.</p><p>With the removal of archetypes there's not really any reason for the powers to change when they betray. It would actually give the betrayal quest another layer and lasting impact on the character if they're abilities didn't suddenly change. THey'd not have access to their app2 spells, they wouldn't get their 'fun spells', they'd stand out from others in their new city and especially for those who's race isn't restricted be a permanent visible indicator that they betrayed.</p><p>Maybe they could offer an option when you finish betraying to stay on the 'hard path' of your current class or opt to retrain into a new class to better fit in with your new home.</p><p>The other conern with this I have is that it was stated by a dev when you convert to the new class all your skills drop to App1. This puts an added penalty to only some classes, the classes that can be in both cities I assume don't lose all their ability upgrades they've gotten to that point. Most I know that betrayed it was so they could be a race and class combination they couldn't start as so they're only option is betrayal. At least under the old system they didn't suddenly lose all their app2-4, adept1, adpet3, master 1 and master 2 abilities.</p>

[Tharangus]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ff0000">There's two ways to look at necromancers: the evil graverobber model (liek most veiw them and how they are in Freeport) and the spiritist calling on ancestors or fallen heros to help them turn the tide against evil.</font> A conjuror shouldn't be restricted to good or evil, it was done with teh archetype system for balance so you didn't give Freeport 2 options and Qeynos only one. WIth the changes both could be available on either side.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>No!!  We are evil.  Read our spell descriptions.  There is no way that Qeynosians would tolorate such practices.  And there is no way that I would tolorate aery fairy conjurors walking the streets of Freeport.<p>Message Edited by Tharangus on <span class="date_text">01-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:46 PM</span></p>

[Anlari]

<div></div>I have to agree, it isnt the player's fantasy that determines if a necro is evil, its the people who designed the game world's fantasy and setting.  I tend to agree with them, nothing good is ever gained from using evil means to acheive the goals of good.

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Meribor wrote:I'm still going to hope they eventually allow betrayal without having to change classes.  If I wanted to be a conjuror, then I would've done the betrayal quest before it was too late.  I chose necromancer and have no intention of changing my class, but that doesn't mean that I can't still want to serve Antonia Bayle instead of Lucan D'Lere.  So, it sounds as though I'm stuck for now.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Just don't hold your breath.You can hope all you want, but it won't be happening.</span><div></div>

[Decad]

<span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Meribor wrote:I'm still going to hope they eventually allow betrayal without having to change classes.  If I wanted to be a conjuror, then I would've done the betrayal quest before it was too late.  I chose necromancer and have no intention of changing my class, but that doesn't mean that I can't still want to serve Antonia Bayle instead of Lucan D'Lere.  So, it sounds as though I'm stuck for now.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Just don't hold your breath.You can hope all you want, but it won't be happening.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>LOL, if I had a dime for everytime a community thought that an aspect of a game's design was set in stone, I'd be a ri.... well I'd at least have money for a few free months playtime.</span><div></div>

[blazeproph]

<div></div><p>from my understanding atm that the betral quest would stay the same except that the lvl need to do is going to be gone. Which in my eyes mean its a one shot deal you get to betray once.</p><p>I like other would like a answer on the both class on each side thing. I have a wiz that I would like to betray but would i still be a wiz or would i get to be a warlock since by all accounts a warlock is evil.</p><p>anyone? on test done this yet to see.</p>

[Kotton]

<div><strong>City Betrayal</strong>- The city betrayal quests currently remain as they were. These quests will be changing significantly in a future update. For example, you will be able to betray your city at any level.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Any level ?  Can we now betray at level 10 ?  Level 5 ? </div>

[Christofurious]

As it stands now, a warlock can be either good or evil.  In my newbie days, I stupidly betrayed my Dark Elf Warlock and have been regretting it ever since.  My hope is that I can betray back to Freeport after this change goes into effect.  But, my impressions of this change are that the only differences from how it is now will be that (A) there will be no level restriction and (B) with the class system change, all of the good-only and evil-only type classes will change to the opposite type class and get their spells/CAs reset to App1.  I don't think that you'll be able to betray multiple times though.  I mean, wouldn't the Overlord and Queen wise up to your problems with allegiance? What will the betrayal consist of?  I can't imagine that a lvl 60 killing orcs in Commonlands or gnolls in Antonica would be very fair.<div></div>

[Sritt]

<div></div><p>The any level betrayal isn't coming with LU19 but probably with LU20 or later due to balance issues.</p><p>WIzards and warlocks can be from Freeport or Qeynos so no swapping of classes.</p><p>THe class swaps are (Freeport <-> Qeynos):</p><p>ShadowKnight <-> PaladinBruiser <-> MonkDefiler <-> MysticInquisitor <-> TemplarBrigand <-> SwashbucklerAssassin <-> RangerCoercer <-> IllusionistNecromancer <-> Conjuror</p><p>The class swapping is the only changes to betrayal currently. You still have to wait until 10 to get the quest and have to do it before you hit 18. I'm not sure if the level cap while doing it is still in place or if you can keep levelling past 17 once your on the exile part of it as I've not gotten to the exile part yet (no stealth on a shadowknight makes it hard to get past 2 groups of heroic yellow/orange aggro snakes).</p>

[Vendorc]

Soe gives us class changes now.. too funny.  So the SK can change into a Paladin and have a brand spankin new lvl 60 paladin?  Forget all those levels workin on your class to learn how to play it.  Maybe in a future update during the character select we can have an option to pick which tier we'd like to start our characters out at?  Maybe have like level 10, 20, 30, 40, etc as an option during character select.  OR.. better yet.  in the options settings a Difficulty slider so we can make the game easier or harder at the touch of a mouse button!  Who really wants to work for what they want..<div></div>

[Sritt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Vendorc wrote:Soe gives us class changes now.. too funny.  So the SK can change into a Paladin and have a brand spankin new lvl 60 paladin?  Forget all those levels workin on your class to learn how to play it.  Maybe in a future update during the character select we can have an option to pick which tier we'd like to start our characters out at?  Maybe have like level 10, 20, 30, 40, etc as an option during character select.  OR.. better yet.  in the options settings a Difficulty slider so we can make the game easier or harder at the touch of a mouse button!  Who really wants to work for what they want..<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>They aren't giving it to us now. CUrrently betrayal has the same level limits as it did before. The change is that we start off at level 1 as our chosen class, not as a fighter who becomes a crusader who then at 20 becomes a SK or Paladin. If they didn't do the swap you'd have SK's in Qeynos and Templars in Freeport. THey're penalizing the betrayer for classes that swap by resetting them to App1 (but apparently only those classes).</p><p>And how is waiting to 60 to swap from Paladin to SK making it easier, you had to get to 60 either way, and now you'll be 60 and fighting mobs that require you to know your class while having to learn the way an SK plays since they are different than an paladin in abilities. That's something that needs to be looked at and why the betrayal quest is staying with the existing limits for now.</p>

[Feyli]

<div>Any ETA on when they'll be getting around to making the betrayal quest available to all levels?  I made a Freeportian Gnome Wizard, realized that I hate getting around Freeport in EQ2 as much as I did in EQ, and decided to betray.  Come to find out, I can't do so because I'd leveled to 19 a couple of hours earlier.....</div><div> </div><div>Making the betrayal quest have a level limit is great, until you get a newbie who knows squat about the quest and doesn't know about the level limit.  Then it's just cruel.</div>

[Anlari]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Vendorc wrote:Soe gives us class changes now.. too funny.  So the SK can change into a Paladin and have a brand spankin new lvl 60 paladin?  Forget all those levels workin on your class to learn how to play it.  Maybe in a future update during the character select we can have an option to pick which tier we'd like to start our characters out at?  Maybe have like level 10, 20, 30, 40, etc as an option during character select.  OR.. better yet.  in the options settings a Difficulty slider so we can make the game easier or harder at the touch of a mouse button!  Who really wants to work for what they want..<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>They aren't giving it to us now. CUrrently betrayal has the same level limits as it did before. The change is that we start off at level 1 as our chosen class, not as a fighter who becomes a crusader who then at 20 becomes a SK or Paladin. If they didn't do the swap you'd have SK's in Qeynos and Templars in Freeport. THey're penalizing the betrayer for classes that swap by resetting them to App1 (but apparently only those classes).</p><p>And how is waiting to 60 to swap from Paladin to SK making it easier, you had to get to 60 either way, and now you'll be 60 and fighting mobs that require you to know your class while having to learn the way an SK plays since they are different than an paladin in abilities. That's something that needs to be looked at and why the betrayal quest is staying with the existing limits for now.</p><hr></blockquote>A berserker will get to 60 faste rthen a guardian, but then at the upper levels, guardians might be the ideal raid class, so player switches over to that class.  I for one, hope they never impliment it even though I have a warlock I would love to switch to a wizard, I still think its a tad too disruptive.

[Auron_ff10]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Anlarius wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Vendorc wrote:Soe gives us class changes now.. too funny.  So the SK can change into a Paladin and have a brand spankin new lvl 60 paladin?  Forget all those levels workin on your class to learn how to play it.  Maybe in a future update during the character select we can have an option to pick which tier we'd like to start our characters out at?  Maybe have like level 10, 20, 30, 40, etc as an option during character select.  OR.. better yet.  in the options settings a Difficulty slider so we can make the game easier or harder at the touch of a mouse button!  Who really wants to work for what they want..<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>They aren't giving it to us now. CUrrently betrayal has the same level limits as it did before. The change is that we start off at level 1 as our chosen class, not as a fighter who becomes a crusader who then at 20 becomes a SK or Paladin. If they didn't do the swap you'd have SK's in Qeynos and Templars in Freeport. THey're penalizing the betrayer for classes that swap by resetting them to App1 (but apparently only those classes).</p><p>And how is waiting to 60 to swap from Paladin to SK making it easier, you had to get to 60 either way, and now you'll be 60 and fighting mobs that require you to know your class while having to learn the way an SK plays since they are different than an paladin in abilities. That's something that needs to be looked at and why the betrayal quest is staying with the existing limits for now.</p><hr></blockquote>A berserker will get to 60 faste rthen a guardian, but then at the upper levels, guardians might be the ideal raid class, so player switches over to that class.  I for one, hope they never impliment it even though I have a warlock I would love to switch to a wizard, I still think its a tad too disruptive.<hr></blockquote><p>Its been confirmed to be going ahead now and all classes that arent allignment restricted will also be offered the option to switch SUBCLASS only, it seems to switch in that manner doesnt even require betrayal but will still incur the reset to app1 penalty...</p><p>the only thing people are concerned about now it seems is what happens to skills past 50? since they aren auto scribed anymore do we simply lose everything past that lvl and have to buy all our new spells again? will be a pain since those without much cash will kinda be broken since they couldnt buy any new stuff...</p><p>i have a 60 conj i want to turn to necro and ill betray whether the skills past 50 are learnt or have to be re-scribed but itll just help to know in advance if i should save up to buy ALL of my spells rather than just the odd few that are particularly useful...</p>

[Sritt]

<div>Well one good thing, the class trainers now seell App2 of all your class skills, at least through level 60 and it looks like beyond that.</div>

[Grey-Cat]

I'm so excited I want this to go live now. I want my to turn my guardian into a playable character again. ******shaking with excitement*****<div></div>

[Dr_Cyr]

<font color="#ffcc00"><i>The only thing people are concerned about now it seems is what happens to skills past 50? since they aren auto scribed anymore do we simply lose everything past that lvl and have to buy all our new spells again? will be a pain since those without much cash will kinda be broken since they couldnt buy any new stuff...</i></font>Thats a good penalty.  It shouldn't be a trivial thing to swap subclasses at high levels.  And given that, a Wiz-Warlock  conversion should incur the same things and be just as hard as a betrayal at any particualr level.  And since thats the case, they should allow things like Coercer->Necro.  The guardian class is nothing like the one I ran up to 50 originally, and its now far too common and in no demand in Freeport in my server, and our guidl is overlaoded with Main Tank types.  I'd love to change over to a bruiser or SK as a DPS/Off-Tank for raid and high end content, even if I had to re-earn all my CA's and replace all my armor and weapons.  I wager thare are at least a few in the same circumstance who would do this. And who knows, you might actually get MORE coercers and Brigands via conversion.  Rangers in Qeynos might go Brig, and warlocks in Freeport might go Coercer.  There are far far fewer high level in those classes thant there should be, mainy because leveling those classes is very hard compared to a solo-friendly class like the Sorc subclasses.   And you'd know very quickly if the converted subclass knew how to play his class if hes'a brig or coercer.  they die quickly if they dont learn quickly.  heh.Lets face it - its not trivial not cheap to do such a swap - nor should it be.  And your reputation (as a plaeyr, in your toons name) <b>is</b> on the line, so you have to spend time learning the new class, probably solo or in guild/friends groups.  So its not something average players or even very many players will be doing <i>a lot</i>, but for those who do it, changing subclass within the city will be VERY important.And on the business side of things, it might being back accounts (or retain current ones) that have abandoned the game because their class is no longer what they wanted to play.  This gives them a chance to revamp their game toon without having to regrind all the levels like you would with an alt.<div></div>