Monk Overpowerdness ** Screenshots inside **

[Steelpul]

<div></div>It seems to me like Monks are just a tad bit over powerd when it comes to the mid levels, either that, or other classes just havn't been fully tweaked.Here are my abilitys as of currently level 12 monk on the test server.<img src="http://www.scotttown.com/danny/monk.jpg">I don't know about you, but I can own heroic mobs, or yellow mobs in under 10 seconds. Mainly because I guess these combat abilitys' aren't on the same cool down? I can simotaniously use them one after another.<div></div>

[Malar]

<div>Overpowered ? Are you kidding me ? They are far from being overpowered ! Wait til you get over 20 and try even con Heroic mobs then tell me if they are overpowered ! You'll get owned.</div>

[Steelpul]

That wasn't my question, my question was, does that look over powerd towards the other classes?<div></div>

[Landiin]

<div></div>Monks/Bruisers have been over powerd since a couple patchs past LU13, so why change it now. I havn't got my bruiser up they high yet on test but I am lvling a monk, bruiser and guard. I have been focusing on the UI for now so I can be ready for the LU ( nice job on the UI updates btw /bow ).<div></div><p>Message Edited by Landiin on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:20 AM</span></p>

[Griffinclaw]

<div></div><blockquote>To answer your question, good Sir, YES, YES you are overpowered.  Sorry but a lvl 1 spell even at ap2 should not be doing 25 - 42 damage</blockquote>

[btennison]

<div></div>So, as I understand it, you're asking to be nerfed? This may be a first! Well, not being a monk, I guess it's alright with me. :smileyvery-happy:

[Pashta]

<div></div><div>Refreshing to see some honesty.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Signal9]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Steelpulse wrote:That wasn't my question, my question was, does that look over powerd towards the other classes?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>The answer would be:  No.</p><p> </p><p>A mage can take the same group/mob down just as fast at those levels.  The game doesn't really start until 10, and real learning of your class begins at 20.  Everything up until then is little more than basic training.</p>

[XeroXs84]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Malar wrote:<div>Overpowered ? Are you kidding me ? They are far from being overpowered ! Wait til you get over 20 and try even con Heroic mobs then tell me if they are overpowered ! You'll get owned.</div><hr></blockquote></span></div>well Malar u might not have noticed, but u arent supposed to be able to solo a heroic.. thats why its heroic, cause u should take it down with a group <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Cidal]

<div></div><p>If the OP would hold on a minute and level his toon out of t1 he would find that it all adjusts itself.  Because of the extremely low population in the starter zones, SOE has blessed all of us with the ability to xp and lvl like crazy, but believe me, it slows down at about lvl 14, and then again drastically at lvl 20.  Most any of the classes I have started recently have been able to own heroic mobs, 3 levels under me or there about.  But by the time you hit 20, they need to be about 5 or 6 levels down, then it goes to about 8-10 levels under your current level to beat them. </p><p>Consider it a favor, or an attempt to save a dying game, that they allow you to kill and level so fast in such sparsely occupied zones.  Believe me (OP), there is much more life past T1/T2, give it a try before screaming to be nerfed.</p>

[Allowin]

<div></div><blockquote><p>The answer would be:  No.</p><p> </p><p>A mage can take the same group/mob down just as fast at those levels.  The game doesn't really start until 10, and real learning of your class begins at 20.  Everything up until then is little more than basic training.</p><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>[Removed for Content], well if he was a mage class then i would say no, your not overpowered.</p><p> </p><p>but HELLO!!!! hes not a mage, hes a fighter.</p><p> </p><p>and to answer the OP question, yes, the brawler class is far overpowered. have been since LU13 or shortly after.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>i rolled a monk and got her to lvl 24, im able to solo lvl 19-22 heroic mobs in stormhold. i have been able to PWN every one of the named mobs on the first floor with ease. even do it in off stance most of the time. she has AQ armor and common or treasured jewelry. most spells are app 4 or adept 1. have 2 masters spells that i hardly ever use. i can solo all of the stormlords, the named by the chessboard, and even the named in the forge. VERY easy.</p><p> </p><p>try that with a guard and you will gain nothing but XP debt!!!</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Rowain deWo]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Signal9 wrote:<div></div><blockquote>The answer would be:  No.</blockquote><p> </p><p>A mage can take the same group/mob down just as fast at those levels.  The game doesn't really start until 10, and real learning of your class begins at 20.  Everything up until then is little more than basic training.</p><hr></blockquote><p>You are joking right? My illu , who should be at öleast in the same damage tier (according to SoE) if not better and is a mage has at lvl 8 a spell that does 17-23 damage.</p><p> Compare that with his <strong>lvl 1 </strong>-style doing 25-42dam and his <strong>lvl 3</strong> style with 51-85 damage.  Btw the Illu lvl 1 spell does 3-4 damage :smileyvery-happy:</p><p>Maybe on later lvl it becomes equal but in the low lvl the Monk is far superior.</p>

[QuaiCon]

the new spells/combat arts for t1/t2 still need some work some classes cannot even solo a white mob on beginner island (most mages made from a low int race as an example). some classes like my iksar defiler are struggeling hard to beat white con solo mobs on island, and others like monk or nekro can solo the cave event. (its not heroic but hard solo content).I tested the new islands now with a defiler, wizard, illusionist, nekro, swashbuckler and monk till now and the monk was the easiest followed by nekro and swashy.  my troll wiz has real troubles and my illusionist is only possible to solo blues.  All tests were done with only app1 spells/ca and quest reward armors/dropps from island mobs. A new player won't have access to anything other than that and most players would not spend money on twinking in t1 so propably would max get app4s/adept1s.<div></div>

[Geekyone]

<div></div><div><p><span>Stop screaming NERF!!!!</span><span></span></p><p><span>What a waste....tell them to fix other classes instead of ruin one.</span></p><p><span></span><span></span> </p><p><span>Whoever was the first person to recommend lowing the abilities of a different class rather than raise the abilities of their own should be shot!</span></p><p><span>Nerf is the worst thing ever, and comes from jealous people who think they should be the best.</span></p></div>

[Brong]

<div></div><div>3 of those attacks are a 30 second recast.  More than likely your only going to use them once, after that if your mob is not dead, your going to get a beating while waiting for them to recycle.  Compare them to whatever other class you want and the normal 10 second recast, you have the chance of getting 2 to 3 off per a monks one.</div><div> </div>

[Steelpul]

That's not the point, I'm not bragging, or asking for a nerf.I am new to this game, and I am from Everquest 1. You didn't get ability's like this in everquest 1 to where you can 1 shot mobs within a matter of 5-8 seconds.I'm only giving testing feedback, and trying to compare classes for balencing, which is exactly what the developers want people to do. I'm not talking about higher levels, I'm talking about the balencment for charecters 1-20 which the developers are focusing on right now.<div></div>

[Eileithia]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div></div><div><p><span>Stop screaming NERF!!!!</span><span></span></p><p><span>What a waste....tell them to fix other classes instead of ruin one.</span></p><p><span></span><span></span> </p><p><span>Whoever was the first person to recommend lowing the abilities of a different class rather than raise the abilities of their own should be shot!</span></p><p><span>Nerf is the worst thing ever, and comes from jealous people who think they should be the best.</span></p></div><hr></blockquote><p>hehe.. ok.. so just say for example.. you ARE overpowered.. then we should bring all the other classes up to where you are to be equal.. what would be the point of the game??</p><p>Casters would be one-shotting epic mobs.. Tanks would never take any damage, or have to work to stay number one on the hate list... Healers would have this magic button that made everyone invulnerable.. and scouts would never grab aggro, have the best buffs in the game, and could kill anything just by sneezing on it..</p><p>Seriously.. you have to look at the big picture.. if we were to do what you would like and "Bring everyone else up".. then they would have to "Increase the mobs so they're not trivial".. and you would be screaming that you're being nerf'd again..</p><p>Adjusting one class that is truely overpowered.. IE killing things they shouldn't be killing, not because they're amazing at their class, but because it's trivial.. is a much simpler solution than changing the other 23 classes to bring them up to where you are, then adjusting every encounter in the game so it's not a joke..</p>

[Loki_d20]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>XeroXs84 wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Malar wrote:<div>Overpowered ? Are you kidding me ? They are far from being overpowered ! Wait til you get over 20 and try even con Heroic mobs then tell me if they are overpowered ! You'll get owned.</div><hr></blockquote></span></div>well Malar u might not have noticed, but u arent supposed to be able to solo a heroic.. thats why its heroic, cause u should take it down with a group <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>Disagree.  Sure, it should require a lot more than just adept2 and regular armor, but low-level heroics should be soloable if you work towards it.  I don't like the people who have no problems with getting good groups and do raids to make the game they like rather than ignore the others out there.  Now, solo an even con heroic?  Never.  Blue con heroic?  Only if you've got some extremely nice masters and legendary armor/weapons/items all around and even then not even half the time.  </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Loki_d20 on <span class="date_text">01-18-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:20 PM</span></p>

[Geekyone]

<div>Well I can freakin' PWN hardcare green v v v's.  What do you propose I do Duntzzz?  Should I be nerfed?</div><div> </div>

[Deadly Nightshadow]

A clarification about nerfs is needed.Nerfs are not to [Removed for Content] you off. They are for class balance (You know, the thing you were complaining about in the first place). What does SOE have to do? Make every class able to heal, deal damage and tank exactly the same? People complain about class variation. Nerfs are NECCESARY! Skills get improved too but people that aren't that class then complain about them being overpowered. What has to be done to make people CONTENT for a bit, I wonder...<div></div>

[Steelpul]

Thanks deadly, I'm glad you took the time to read my post effectivly.As I was saying, I'm not asking for every class to be brought up to the current effectiveness of a monk. I'm simply pointing out that as of right now, monks are very over powerd across the board in compares to any other class on the test server that was recently revamped ( all classes from level 1-20 ).Maybe people need to read a little bit more before they start joining the flame bandwagon ?<div></div>

[Eileithia]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div>Well I can freakin' PWN hardcare green v v v's.  What do you propose I do Duntzzz?  Should I be nerfed?</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>LOL.. you don't get the point do you?... If ONE class (As a whole.. not individual player) can own orange ^^^ heroic, and no other class can.. than there's an issue with that one class as they are overpowered compared to the rest of them.. Yes tactics come into play .. but if it's absolutely trivial for a class to OWN a high con GROUP mob.. then yes.. there are problems... </p><p>What you'd suggest is instead of fixing that one class to bring it inline with everyone else.. we make it so ALL classes can own High Con GROUP mobs .. so exactly what would be the point to the game after that?</p><p> </p><p>And on a side note.. you're supposed to own vvv green mobs.. they're SOLO mobs, and easy solo mobs at that.. What I can understand is bringing a class up that cannot solo a green vvv mob.. then yes there are issues with the other class that need to be addressed..</p><p>In a balanced system.. All classes should be able to fill their primary role.. and should be able to fight even con solo mobs with minimal issues..</p>

[Xakkoriz]

Why do people ask for stuff to be nerfed? lol. I hate to see AA come to this game if it would be as good as EQ1 AA... people would whine so bad. On EQ1 SK's Unholy Steed was as fast as peoples bought horses and you know what? no on whined about it. On EQ1 one of the ranger AA's let them have unlimited arrows..... Personally I think Bruisers and Monks are awesome for soloing.... more fun than something that can't solo.....<div></div>

[Doggi]

<div>Uhm well, I'm playing a lvl 60 Monk.</div><div>Personally, I think it's ok so.</div><div>If a nerf is necessary, please, just the lvls from 1-10.</div><div>Everything else would be.... :smileyindifferent:</div>

[Shantee]

I play a lvl 60 monk on Test.  I can attest to being able to put out the damage.. but that only lasts like the first 5-8 or so secs of the fight, because then I'm having to wait for the recycle of my skills.  It's usually this time that I have the hardest time that makes or breaks my fights.  When the testing changes going on right now, my avoidance went from (can't really remember, so it's a example)  like 50-60% down to 19%.  I practically am getting owned by lvl 54 single group mobs.  I can survive but barely.  One thing that happened is our skills got reset to like lvl 55 skills, and I am slowly building them back up, but as of yet my avoidance is still only 21%.  I just hope when I get them all back, it will be back up to where it was (I haven't been around much to bring them back up)  But I do know most heroic green groups are very difficult, blue you can almost forget as a solo fighter.  At least for me, I don't have any uber armor from the big mobs.  Maybe If I did, i'd be over powered then <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>  But I can't solo alot of the stuff my friends can with pallys and wizards/necro classes can.<div></div>

[lillin]

<div></div><p>Steelpulse wrote :</p><p>"<strong>I am new to this game</strong>, and I am from Everquest 1. <strong>You didn't get ability's like this in <em>everquest 1</em></strong> to where you can 1 shot mobs within a matter of 5-8 seconds.I'm only giving testing feedback, and trying to compare classes for balencing, which is exactly what the developers want people to do. I'm not talking about higher levels, I'm talking about the balencment for charecters 1-20 which the developers are focusing on right now."A) welcome to <strong>Everquest 2 </strong>=)</p><p>B) being a fellow ex eq1 player i can say dont be shocked you can actually solo in this game.</p><p>C) monks in eq1 were even pretty good running through the tutorial and such.  Later levels ive seen some solo same dragons my necro soloed.  So whats the big deal.  Later on in the game monks get to hear such things as we cant tank such and such mobs, our group aggro is kinda low and our dps while pretty fair is not near as much as dps classes.  So they throw monks a bone in the begining to soften the blow of the things we get to put up with in the end. </p><p>D) where are the screenshots of skills from all the other classes you compare to.  New to the game yet ready to yell nerf after playing <strong>all </strong>the classes already, you sir amaze and bewilder me.</p>

[Geekyone]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Duntzzzz wrote:<div></div><blockquote>In a balanced system.. All classes should be able to fill their primary role.. and should be able to fight even con solo mobs with minimal issues..</blockquote><hr></blockquote><p>I totally agree with you there.  Some people need to understand that they are not a main fighting force in the game.</p><p>And...there is no class in the game, that can solo an Orange ^^^, let alone pwn one, unless they have a few Mythical items, which in that case it is again not a class imbalance that needs to be nerfed.</p>

[Jerhico]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>lillin wrote:<div></div><p>Steelpulse wrote :</p><p>"<strong>I am new to this game</strong>, and I am from Everquest 1. <strong>You didn't get ability's like this in <em>everquest 1</em></strong> to where you can 1 shot mobs within a matter of 5-8 seconds.I'm only giving testing feedback, and trying to compare classes for balencing, which is exactly what the developers want people to do. I'm not talking about higher levels, I'm talking about the balencment for charecters 1-20 which the developers are focusing on right now."A) welcome to <strong>Everquest 2 </strong>=)</p><p>B) being a fellow ex eq1 player i can say dont be shocked you can actually solo in this game.</p><p>C) monks in eq1 were even pretty good running through the tutorial and such.  Later levels ive seen some solo same dragons my necro soloed.  So whats the big deal.  Later on in the game monks get to hear such things as we cant tank such and such mobs, our group aggro is kinda low and our dps while pretty fair is not near as much as dps classes.  So they throw monks a bone in the begining to soften the blow of the things we get to put up with in the end. </p><p>D) where are the screenshots of skills from all the other classes you compare to.  New to the game yet ready to yell nerf after playing <strong>all </strong>the classes already, you sir amaze and bewilder me.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I agree with this comment. </p>

[WascalWabb]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Steelpulse wrote:<div></div>I don't know about you, but I can own heroic mobs, or yellow mobs in under 10 seconds. Mainly because I guess these combat abilitys' aren't on the same cool down? I can simotaniously use them one after another.<div></div><hr></blockquote>There's quite a few different types of Heroics in this game - no arrows, ^, ^^, ^^^ and named. Which type exactly were you owning and what was their level compared to you? Also I think type of mob plays a big role when you play a monk/bruiser. Against a mob that is mainly melee, then yes an avoidance tank can be very effective. Against casters it's a very different story. In the cave on OotO, my bruiser could manage to take out only 1 Tunarian Elder before she had to run for her life. This is a group of 3 triple down arrow mobs!! Because they were casting fire based spells I was getting owned because avoidance and mit don't come into effect and I had around 5 fire resist so was absorbing something like 0.1% of the damage.So in the early levels against certain types of mobs a monk/bruiser will have a very easy time. Against others they will have a very tough time. Also, as you get further into the game you start meeting mobs that have significant to-hit bonuses which can really cause problems for a character whose main defence is not getting hit.</span></div>

[Junaru]

While I play a Monk on a normal server and I don't think they are over-powered I can CLEARLY see that the L1 and L3 skills on test are WAY out of wack. The level 3 skill does more damage then the level 11 skill. Granted it L11 one has a stun/knockdown to it but that doesn't make sure for the pure damage the L3 skill has. And if I remember right my Warlock's Adept I Blaze only did like 90 damage. No doubt in my mind those T1 skills need to be adjusted.<div></div>

[Griffinclaw]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div></div><div><p><span>Stop screaming NERF!!!!</span><span></span></p><p><span>What a waste....tell them to fix other classes instead of ruin one.</span></p><p><span></span><span></span> </p><p><span>Whoever was the first person to recommend lowing the abilities of a different class rather than raise the abilities of their own should be shot!</span></p><p><span>Nerf is the worst thing ever, and comes from jealous people who think they should be the best.</span></p></div><hr></blockquote><p>You, my friend, have absolutely NO business, posting on a Test Server forum.  I mean seriously, you are not even allowed to use the word nerf here.  Its not a nerf, till it makes it to the live servers, and than is adjusted. We are trying to rectify that before it happens.</p><p>You do realize that a lvl 1 mob on the starters islands has less than 9 hp, a lvl 2 mob has less than 18.  but somehow you feel that an ability that a monk gets at lvl 1 should be able to do enough damage to kill 5 creatures at once.  Shame on you, shame on you.</p>

[EQTrekel]

<div></div><p>Ok I just got home tonight to read this post and I have to say that I must be doing something wrong or they changed something.  I have a lvl 11 monk on test and my app2 skills are significantly lower, so I dont know if the OP used a little photo-shop magic to start a fight or if they have changed something from yesterday to today.  (For example, my Kick does 8-14 dmg. not 22-37)  So unless I am missing something...I dub this post a fake.</p><p>Saden</p>

[Lyasa]

<div></div>i'm pretty sure this is a bug, as when you first get those skills they deal 4- 7 and 10 - 18 damage, i have noticed that they scale based on level if you fight with bare fists, but w/ weapons equipped they deal near the initial damage. (also at level 1 w/ no weapons, the lv 1 skill dealt 1-2 damage, then 2- 4 at 2, 3- 6 at 4- 7 at 4, and continued to increase w/ each level, believe at 10 it deals 14 - 28 or so)

[selch]

<blockquote><hr>Griffinclaw wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div></div><div><p><span>Stop screaming NERF!!!!</span><span></span></p><p><span>What a waste....tell them to fix other classes instead of ruin one.</span></p><p><span></span><span></span> </p><p><span>Whoever was the first person to recommend lowing the abilities of a different class rather than raise the abilities of their own should be shot!</span></p><p><span>Nerf is the worst thing ever, and comes from jealous people who think they should be the best.</span></p></div><hr></blockquote><p>You, my friend, have absolutely NO business, posting on a Test Server forum.  I mean seriously, you are not even allowed to use the word nerf here.  Its not a nerf, till it makes it to the live servers, and than is adjusted. We are trying to rectify that before it happens.</p><p>You do realize that a lvl 1 mob on the starters islands has less than 9 hp, a lvl 2 mob has less than 18.  but somehow you feel that an ability that a monk gets at lvl 1 should be able to do enough damage to kill 5 creatures at once.  Shame on you, shame on you.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Geez, play another class on TEST. Every class does this damage, developers are aware of issue and will be fixed.</p><p> </p>

[Gaige]

<div></div><p>Roffles.</p><p>This thread makes me smile <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[QuaiCon]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>i cannot understand why people start screaming about nerfs here. the combat arts and spells we are talking about here were never on life servers. some of the spells that went to testservers last week were not balanced right (lvl1-2 spells doing more damage than the upgrade ones...) . the new lvl 1-20 progression needs some testing and balancing. if you get a skill at lvl 2 that does enough damage to kill a lvl 2 opponent twice then something is not balanced right and that cannot be fixed by making all classes that powerfull. you would end up adjusting every class from lvl 1-60 up, then adjusting all mobs to the new damage output...the only way to fix this is to balance the lvl 1-20 spells right and if one of them does too much damage then its better to lower it now before it goes to life servers.<div></div><p>Message Edited by quaiky on <span class="date_text">01-19-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:49 PM</span></p>

[Geekyone]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Griffinclaw wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div></div><div><p><span>Stop screaming NERF!!!!</span><span></span></p><p><span>What a waste....tell them to fix other classes instead of ruin one.</span></p><p><span></span><span></span> </p><p><span>Whoever was the first person to recommend lowing the abilities of a different class rather than raise the abilities of their own should be shot!</span></p><p><span>Nerf is the worst thing ever, and comes from jealous people who think they should be the best.</span></p></div><hr></blockquote><p>You, my friend, have absolutely NO business, posting on a Test Server forum.  I mean seriously, you are not even allowed to use the word nerf here.  Its not a nerf, till it makes it to the live servers, and than is adjusted. We are trying to rectify that before it happens.</p><p>You do realize that a lvl 1 mob on the starters islands has less than 9 hp, a lvl 2 mob has less than 18.  but somehow you feel that an ability that a monk gets at lvl 1 should be able to do enough damage to kill 5 creatures at once.  Shame on you, shame on you.</p><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p><span>Shame on me yes...I forgot to put the toilet seat down this morning.  That is all I should be ashamed of.  My post was never about nerfing Monks, or not nerfting monks or never not nerfing??...I don't even play a monk.   And did you read my post?  I never said nerf anything, I hate the word and when people use it.</span></p><p><span> My post was about people, be it on Test or Live, who scream NERF when they feel another class might be better at something then their beloved avatar.  Jealous people who want to have the highest damage best armor and no death penalty, and scream nerf when another class might have a chance to be playable.</span></p>

[Junaru]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Griffinclaw wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div></div><div><p><span>Stop screaming NERF!!!!</span><span></span></p><p><span>What a waste....tell them to fix other classes instead of ruin one.</span></p><p><span></span><span></span> </p><p><span>Whoever was the first person to recommend lowing the abilities of a different class rather than raise the abilities of their own should be shot!</span></p><p><span>Nerf is the worst thing ever, and comes from jealous people who think they should be the best.</span></p></div><hr></blockquote><p>You, my friend, have absolutely NO business, posting on a Test Server forum.  I mean seriously, you are not even allowed to use the word nerf here.  Its not a nerf, till it makes it to the live servers, and than is adjusted. We are trying to rectify that before it happens.</p><p>You do realize that a lvl 1 mob on the starters islands has less than 9 hp, a lvl 2 mob has less than 18.  but somehow you feel that an ability that a monk gets at lvl 1 should be able to do enough damage to kill 5 creatures at once.  Shame on you, shame on you.</p><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p><span>Shame on me yes...I forgot to put the toilet seat down this morning.  That is all I should be ashamed of.  My post was never about nerfing Monks, or not nerfting monks or never not nerfing??...I don't even play a monk.   And did you read my post?  I never said nerf anything, I hate the word and when people use it.</span></p><p><span> My post was about people, be it on Test or Live, who scream NERF when they feel another class might be better at something then their beloved avatar.  Jealous people who want to have the highest damage best armor and no death penalty, and scream nerf when another class might have a chance to be playable.</span></p><hr></blockquote>While I somewhat agree with what you are saying about people calling for nerfs when it's not needed, but this is not one of those times. Clearly if these screen shots are real something is wrong. As someone else pointed out these skills could kill and even con mob 3 time over.</span></div>

[VeraIkonica]

<div></div>OMG look at all the monkeys  scared of being nerfed.  First off how would changing this spell be a 'nerf' to the class when this spell does not even exist on the live server.  This is the test server forum the spell the OP is refering to is in the testing phase  where it still is not final how much damage it should do.  So how does it have anything at all to do with your 60 monk or your overall monkeyness.  SO NO HE IS NOT SAYING THEY SHOULD BE NERFED.<div></div><p>Message Edited by VeraIkonica on <span class="date_text">01-20-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:47 AM</span></p>

[Griffinclaw]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Junaru wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Griffinclaw wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Geekyone wrote:<div></div><div><p><span>Stop screaming NERF!!!!</span><span></span></p><p><span>What a waste....tell them to fix other classes instead of ruin one.</span></p><p><span></span><span></span> </p><p><span>Whoever was the first person to recommend lowing the abilities of a different class rather than raise the abilities of their own should be shot!</span></p><p><span>Nerf is the worst thing ever, and comes from jealous people who think they should be the best.</span></p></div><hr></blockquote><p>You, my friend, have absolutely NO business, posting on a Test Server forum.  I mean seriously, you are not even allowed to use the word nerf here.  Its not a nerf, till it makes it to the live servers, and than is adjusted. We are trying to rectify that before it happens.</p><p>You do realize that a lvl 1 mob on the starters islands has less than 9 hp, a lvl 2 mob has less than 18.  but somehow you feel that an ability that a monk gets at lvl 1 should be able to do enough damage to kill 5 creatures at once.  Shame on you, shame on you.</p><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p><span>Shame on me yes...I forgot to put the toilet seat down this morning.  That is all I should be ashamed of.  My post was never about nerfing Monks, or not nerfting monks or never not nerfing??...I don't even play a monk.   And did you read my post?  I never said nerf anything, I hate the word and when people use it.</span></p><p><span> My post was about people, be it on Test or Live, who scream NERF when they feel another class might be better at something then their beloved avatar.  Jealous people who want to have the highest damage best armor and no death penalty, and scream nerf when another class might have a chance to be playable.</span></p><hr></blockquote>While I somewhat agree with what you are saying about people calling for nerfs when it's not needed, but this is not one of those times. Clearly if these screen shots are real something is wrong. As someone else pointed out these skills could kill and even con mob 3 time over.</span></div><hr></blockquote>WOW, I REALLY SCREWED that post up.  I was never intending on replying to Geekyone.  I agree 100% with what he posted, but for some reason, I miss quoted the wrong person, making myself look like a tool.  My apologies to everyone who had to read that <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Xakkoriz]

I think the classes should be somewhat balanced... but I think classes things should be more unique... I think SK should get an Unholy Steed move that is faster than 10%, I think rangers should be able to do that much damage with bows... and I think Bruisers should do more damage than the other tank because being unfair somewhat is what makes classes unique... if every class can do the same things or have the same ability just a diff spell graphic then [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] is the point of having diff classes..... people complain about getting nerfed when sometimes its their own faults... I wish the AA-type system on here would give you more powerful things that no other class has... because thats one of the things that makes a character unique.<div></div>

[troodon311]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Xakkoriz wrote:I think SK should get an Unholy Steed move that is faster than 10%,<hr></blockquote><p>Why should we get a free horse with any speed increase?  Fury's get to make someone glow green, guardians get to make their hand glow white, rangers get a useless bird pet, necros get skelly illusion, etc. and SKs are supposed to get a horse with a nice runspeed buff?  Get real, man.  That's an absurd request.</p>

[Sritt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>troodon311 wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Xakkoriz wrote:I think SK should get an Unholy Steed move that is faster than 10%,<hr></blockquote><p>Why should we get a free horse with any speed increase?  Fury's get to make someone glow green, guardians get to make their hand glow white, rangers get a useless bird pet, necros get skelly illusion, etc. and SKs are supposed to get a horse with a nice runspeed buff?  Get real, man.  That's an absurd request.</p><hr></blockquote>True the fun spell shouldn't be something that's truly useful. Monks get A kata to show off with (just a long emote really) at 20, a tiger illusion at 40, and a body glow at 50. If a SK were to get a decent summoned steed it should be a regular ability gained auto at level and means a paladin would get one also (with a different appearance). Might not be totally unique but no other classes get a free mount of any kind, pathfinding and spirit of wolf just have a casting graphic then you move faster (pathfinding 16% and SoW 20%).

[Malar]

<div></div><p>Ok,maybe I should have said it this way...try being a main tank in a group taking on whatever mob and let me know if your overpowered.And yes I know monks/bruisers arnet tanks but why the hell have them in the fighter line ? Or better yet go take on a solo mob that is 2 levels above you and tell me if your overpowered,or if that mob is 2-4 lvls above you...I believe this class is right in line.</p><p> </p><p>Unless your trying to compare monks to a wizard,aint gonna happen.</p><p> </p><p>By the way I do have a lvl 43 monk and hate playing him after the lu13 changes,not because of not being able to do dmg but not really being able to take a freakin hit.</p>

[SirRusseII]

booooo brawlers are all overpowered, mainly because which dps class heals? and heals that much and that fast and you heal others too? along with all kind of immune to stun, stifle, root, fear, mez, not taking damage stances? high avoidance, madly taunts, FD ( and even can fake the group ), invis skills, cure this cure that, cure everything, ward few K damage........? I think they do everything other than rez now, and I think its coming soon too.  I heard that a key dev is playing a brawler and thats why they are overpowered, its hard to believe but it sounds convincing.  OOHHH and they can use ranged throwing weapons and have range attack move too?  I mean [Removed for Content]?  you throw your gloves at enemy?  or your punch is just so powerful that hits target 20 meters + away?  I am serious brawlers GOT some DPS.  Lets talk about it, brawlers welcome too talk about what other classes you think are over powered.<div></div>

[Sritt]

<div>Lets see as a 57 monk I can: do okay damage for a short fight, then I'm out of power. I can invis for about 2 minutes before I'm out of power (but other stealth/invis classes don't drain power just to stay stealth/invis). I can use 1 heal for about 30% health once every 3 minutes. I have a power-consuming status remover that only in the 50s covers most status ailments that I can cast once every 2-4 minutes (rarely use it as most stuff wears off before its needed). I get no immunities and only through gear do I have any resists over 1k. Magic wastes me fast since my avoidance does nothing to stop it. I do decent DPS but not as much as a scout, most healers with a reactionary heal will heal more than I do in damage per hit. I'm fine in a figh tif I don't get hit but if I do my mitigation is so low that it takes a big chunk out of my health. Oh and I have a lower power pool than all other fighters and seemingly all other classes but my skills use high power so until I get my hands on some prismatics I really have to hope I can take down an enemy in under 20 seconds or I could be killed while waiting on power and skill recharges.</div><div> </div><div>Monks (and bruisers) aren't overpowered, we're just a bit more hybrid than other classes so can do a bit of various things but no one thing really really well. What it amounts to is monks can solo fairly well but are normally just filler on a group/raid, or the last ditch tank and usually for groups going after targets that are green to the monk.</div>

[Rowain deWo]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>SirRussel and others have completly missed the point.</p><p> </p><p>It is <strong>not</strong> about Monks after lvl 20 and it is for sure <strong>not</strong> about Monks on live-servers.</p><p>The OP point only concerns Monks <strong>earlygame</strong> (lvl 1-19) abilities currently on <strong>test</strong>.</p><p>So if you are not playing on test please shut up.</p><p> </p><p>And yes some of the Monks first lvl- abilities were overpowered compared to both Mobs and other classes.</p><p>But to stress it again the theme was <strong>Monks starting abilities currently on test</strong>.  </p><p>Message Edited by Rowain deWolf on <span class="date_text">01-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:11 AM</span></p>

[SirRusseII]

ok you pick on scout/mage stealth and invis, why they cant FD once couple of min? scouts supposed to be more agile and learn FD before brawlers cause they always play hide and seek and of course you need to know how to FD (reasonable?)  so dont pick on them yet.  and your invis? get a drink I am sure your mana grows back.  When brawlers oop, brawlers do fine dps, your strength high, noproblem, you are gonna way out dps a mage when they are oop. and I didnt mention brawlers got attack moves that consume health only(no power needed) and thats fine, just other class cant do.  oh and compare your health pool with other dps class...... dont be shy, 30% is a lot and worth more when you can FD.  oh maybe you will get my point better after you reach 60.   and for the poison users, they pay for those extra dps, without it, their dps really suks and I hope you not thinking requesting brawler classes able to use poison on your weapons <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[SirRusseII]

and who are you rowain?  I am talking about monk/brawler overpowerdness on test server and on all live servers, the title didnt say level 20 - .  I think there are some thread thats for level 1-19 tests.<div></div>

[airgrazor]

<div>Ok first of all I agree with Gaige this post makes me laugh.</div><div>Reason being</div><div>1: You're on a TEST server, things change hint hint</div><div>2: Now if something like this actually went live, even I'd be worried</div><div>3: until SOE does take it live(IE UI bugs courtesy of LU1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, let's just see what happens</div><div>4: Monk overpowerdness hehe that's amusing</div><div> </div><div>I have a lvl 58 monk(Mitsukai) on permafrost and can attest to the fact that</div><div>it has been a long rough road if you've played a monk since EQ2 started.</div><div>The class was very unbalanced for a good long while and has gone</div><div>through major changes for both better and worse.  I love playing my monk</div><div>which is why I stick by her, and for better or worse will continue to play her</div><div>until the game bores me or she is unplayable.  I'm just happy that I can</div><div>effecively main tank in a group now, I can still alternate to dps if need be,</div><div>and just have a fun. I've tried a Defiler, Wizard, and a Paladin as well and</div><div>have to say the characters play like they should it's just a matter of learning</div><div>how to use them.  Personally at the moment the Paladin is the hardest and</div><div>if anything the Devs should be looking on how to help this class not</div><div>waste their time trying to fix one class by taking pot shots at another.</div><div>Never once in game or on the boards have anyone ever stated what</div><div>you should and should not be able to kill solo, so before crying fowl</div><div>maybe people need to ask first is it how you're playing the charcater</div><div>and if that isn't it maybe then you should ask why your class</div><div>can't do something another class can.  Ad until youve played a class</div><div>past lvl 20 you shouldn't really complain cause the game is designed to</div><div>get you to lvl 20 as quickly as possible and you're not really fully into all of</div><div>your class skills until about lvl 30.</div><div> </div><div>That's my .5 cents worth</div><div> </div><div>/wave Gaige</div>

[Junaru]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>SirRusseII wrote:ok you pick on scout/mage stealth and invis, why they cant FD once couple of min? scouts supposed to be more agile and learn FD before brawlers cause they always play hide and seek and of course you need to know how to FD (reasonable?)  so dont pick on them yet.  and your invis? get a drink I am sure your mana grows back.  When brawlers oop, brawlers do fine dps, your strength high, noproblem, you are gonna way out dps a mage when they are oop. and I didnt mention brawlers got attack moves that consume health only(no power needed) and thats fine, just other class cant do.  oh and compare your health pool with other dps class...... dont be shy, 30% is a lot and worth more when you can FD.  oh maybe you will get my point better after you reach 60.   and for the poison users, they pay for those extra dps, without it, their dps really suks and I hope you not thinking requesting brawler classes able to use poison on your weapons <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I think you need to do a little more reading.. You keep rambling off skills that would make a class over powering.. but guess what not one class has those.. You are talking about Monk and Brusier skills. Brusiers don't get Invis, Monks don't get imune to stuns/etc/etc.. No one is going to bother listening to you if you don't know the difference between the two classes.So go do a little reading and then come back when you have a better understanding. <span>:smileysad:</span></span></div>