Ability to set your level

[Ki]

<div>In SWG on Test Center they had the ability to artifically advance their characters throught frog like statues, this encouraged more people to use test center.</div><div> </div><div>I fill that something like this would benefit EQ2. I for one would be much more interested in using test center to help find bugs if I didn't have to spend the countless hours leveling the toon.</div><div> </div><div>So what does everyone else think? Would having some sort of special NPC that allowed you to set your own level help or hurt the test center environment?</div><div> </div><div>OR is that feature already present? (Because honestly I haven't logged on yet, but I couldn't find any mention of this feature on the forums, so I'm assuming its not there)</div>

[Magu]

Such a feature will likely never be implemented. They don't want people testing just the end-game content, they need you to test all of it.<div></div>

[MystaSkrat]

<div></div><div>They actually did this in DoF beta, both to adventure levels and artisan levels (except you had a dev level you up). I wouldn't be suprised to see it in KoS beta as well.</div>

[Darksong]

I agree this system makes testing easyer

[Jayces]

<span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Such a feature will likely never be implemented. They don't want people testing just the end-game content, they need you to test all of it.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Never say never.Everyone who uses the SWG forums knows the poster who was ridiculed after announcing the NGE changes 2 weeks before the official announcements and then they all had to apologise to him after he was found out to be right. Many of the posts in that thread also used the words "never be implemented".UO always allows you to set the skills and to be honest it really doesn't make a difference. There are a set of dedicated testers who will test all aspects of a game at all levels and to them it doesn't matter about being able to se skills. The only ones who would benefit from this are those who want to jump right into the high levels but then these same people wouldn't normally play on a test anyway so it's not like there would be less testers playing if this was implimented.It's good for load balancing because then you do get more people logging in.</span><div></div>

[Sritt]

<div></div><div>Well considering they apparently don't even do that for internal testing they probably won't do it on the test server. I believe for the KoS beta they're looking for people with a character 55+ to copy to the KoS beta if accepted.</div><div> </div><div>I think they discovered with the DoF beta that artificially levelling and 'buffing' characters didn't get the same results as naturally levelling and equipping a character which led to lots of problems when things went live.</div><div> </div><div>Other games have discovered that artificially levelling a character often results in a different game experience and performance than natural levelling. Natural levelling lets your character's data add things to it like kills, quests, zones... things that just jumping to another level wouldn't add and therefore doesn't provide the same game performance.</div>

[Magu]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Jayces wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:Such a feature will likely never be implemented. They don't want people testing just the end-game content, they need you to test all of it.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Never say never.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>While they may at some point add this feature, it is very unlikely, as I said. The devs themselves have said no to this idea, so it's clear they don't want the feature.<***REMOVED FLAME BAIT***></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Echgar on <span class="date_text">01-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:42 AM</span></p>

[Kel]

<span><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><div>Well considering they apparently don't even do that for internal testing they probably won't do it on the test server. I believe for the KoS beta they're looking for people with a character 55+ to copy to the KoS beta if accepted.</div><div> </div><div>I think they discovered with the DoF beta that artificially levelling and 'buffing' characters didn't get the same results as naturally levelling and equipping a character which led to lots of problems when things went live.</div><div> </div><div>Other games have discovered that artificially levelling a character often results in a different game experience and performance than natural levelling. Natural levelling lets your character's data add things to it like kills, quests, zones... things that just jumping to another level wouldn't add and therefore doesn't provide the same game performance.</div><hr></blockquote>I wouldnt bet on it, though. Every SoE Beta I've ever done they have artificially leveled folks.. even the ones where they didnt up the level caps.</span><div></div>

[Mon]

Yea but thats beta, the test server isnt a beta server per se, even though they do beta test some features (like the new 1-19 changes).  They wont do this on the test server because there are a lot of dedicated people who play on there as their normal server and this would not fit with that.  On beta only servers, sure, they do that kind of thing all the time.  When I beta tested LDoN for EQ1, we had a command called /betabuff which let us create a character of any level, to test with.  /betabuff 50 for instance.Now,  on the EQ1 test server they did add a /testbuff command that set your char to level 25 with some, so so equipment.  Enough to get in and sort of feel out the changes and test some stuff.  If i remember correctly that didn't go over super well with the full time testers, but who can blame them.<div></div>

[Xalmat]

Beta Tests != Test Server.

[Dalick]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Xalmat wrote:Beta Tests != Test Server.<hr></blockquote><p>Wrong, the beta server and the Test server are 2 diffrant servers. They may both test but they test differant points of the game. DoF Beta had the level setting near the end so that all the ones they had invited to beta that were under DoF content level could also test and see it.</p><p>The Test server is not just a place to test and SoE knows this and has sated as much. Its another server with its own comunity and economy ( <-- LOL Right! ). This is why they dont do copies over to Test like they do for beta.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Thormiel]

<blockquote><hr>Dalick wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Xalmat wrote:Beta Tests != Test Server.<hr></blockquote><p>Wrong, the beta server and the Test server are 2 diffrant servers.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>I believe that's what Xalmat said. The signs != together like that means not the same.

[Dalick]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Thormiel wrote:<blockquote><hr>Dalick wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Xalmat wrote:Beta Tests != Test Server.<hr></blockquote><p>Wrong, the beta server and the Test server are 2 diffrant servers.</p><p> </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>I believe that's what Xalmat said. The signs != together like that means not the same.<hr></blockquote><p>LOL Learn something new everyday. Looked to me as if it meant equals the same. No biggie. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Ki]

<div>You all bring up some very good points that I did not initially think of, and while yes leveling naturally does also increase your skills, quests, and kills - it also takes much more time.</div><div> </div><div>So maybe an artifical leveling system wouldn't be such a great idea - but that then brings to the table the idea of character copy. The primary reason I want to even play on test center is to see how planned changes will affect my primary character (a level 40 zerker) - now I am a casual player that has played since game launch, yes I have taken time off from the game now and then, and I have half a dozen characters between 20 and 40 - but all and all it has essentially taken me forever to get to 40 and I shutter at the thought of taking that much time to get a similar character on test center. (Especially when technically the devs could wipe test center at any given moment, although they probably won't - the risk is always there)</div><div> </div><div>So that brings me back to "Plan B" - Character copy.  What does everyone think about that?</div><div> </div><div>Instead of a character transfer (like you can do right now if you pay the transfer fee), what would you think if SOE allowed us to COPY one of our characters to test center (bring over your stats, items, money) this way you'd be able to test EXACTLY how the updates would affect your character.</div><div> </div><div>~Katesh - 40 Zerker - Antonia Bayle</div>

[Sunrayn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kiro wrote:<div>You all bring up some very good points that I did not initially think of, and while yes leveling naturally does also increase your skills, quests, and kills - it also takes much more time.</div><div> </div><div>So maybe an artifical leveling system wouldn't be such a great idea - but that then brings to the table the idea of character copy. The primary reason I want to even play on test center is to see how planned changes will affect my primary character (a level 40 zerker) - now I am a casual player that has played since game launch, yes I have taken time off from the game now and then, and I have half a dozen characters between 20 and 40 - but all and all it has essentially taken me forever to get to 40 and I shutter at the thought of taking that much time to get a similar character on test center. (Especially when technically the devs could wipe test center at any given moment, although they probably won't - the risk is always there)</div><div> </div><div>So that brings me back to "Plan B" - Character copy.  What does everyone think about that?</div><div> </div><div>Instead of a character transfer (like you can do right now if you pay the transfer fee), what would you think if SOE allowed us to COPY one of our characters to test center (bring over your stats, items, money) this way you'd be able to test EXACTLY how the updates would affect your character.</div><div> </div><div>~Katesh - 40 Zerker - Antonia Bayle</div><hr></blockquote><p>This horse has been beaten to beyond death.  Odd how it only gets dug up when a big change is coming.  I find it funny that folks from live only care about 'testing' when there is a big change.</p><p>Sunrayn, 55 guard--Test</p>

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Dalick wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Thormiel wrote:<blockquote><hr>Dalick wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Xalmat wrote:Beta Tests != Test Server.<hr></blockquote><p>Wrong, the beta server and the Test server are 2 diffrant servers. </p><hr></blockquote>I believe that's what Xalmat said. The signs != together like that means not the same.<hr>LOL Learn something new everyday. Looked to me as if it meant equals the same. No biggie. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><hr></blockquote>For those who have never done programming or scripting (or aren't into higher mathmatics), it looks.. umm.. arcane and isn't all that deciferable.  But.. the programming/scripting shortcuts are too alluring for some of us.  Think of them in the same way that everyone makes abreviations out of mob names, drop items, HQ or other quest rewards, or even real life stuff.!      means "not" (and is frequenly called a "bang" not an exclaimation point)!=    is then "not equal"!<    would be "not less than"!>    "not greater than", etc=<   "less than or equal to"=>   "less than or greater to"Not singling out your post or implying you're not intelligent for not knowing these, just trying to dispell the confusion for you and others that might read such abbreviations. It's just the same, as I said before as talking about the FBSS, the EBBC, PP, DOF, KOS, TS, FP, EL, Jboots, etc.  It's arcane to someone who doesn't know it, no matter their level of intelligence or gameplay abilities.</span><div></div>

[Ki]

<div></div><div></div><div>This horse has been beaten to beyond death.  Odd how it only gets dug up when a big change is coming.  I find it funny that folks from live only care about 'testing' when there is a big change.<p>Sunrayn, 55 guard--Test</p><p></p><hr></div><p>I'm not just interested in testing the big changes, I'd play on test center fairly often (like when ever my main was out of vitality)</p><p>The only thing holding me back is the time I'd have to invest in getting another zerker to where I'm at.</p><p>The whole point of test center is to see how it'll affect the live game, and for me that means how it would affect the zerker class. So in order to test this I'd have to create a zerker and level it clear to where I'm at. The thought of that is painful. I'm okay with leveling a different class, as it'll offer a different experience, but I don't want to have to level another zerker as it wouldn't offer very many new experiences.</p><p>So, bottom line, I still think a character copy would be a great idea, and the fact that it's been "beaten to beyond death" is a good thing in my opinion, as it shows that there are probably lots of other people out there that feel the same way I do.</p><p>But I guess the real question for you (and anyone else) is, what is your stance on that topic and why? Do you think a character copy would help or hurt the test center environment? I think anything thing that would get more players on TC would be helpful, especially if it allowed them to test what was important to them.</p><p>Right now as the current system stands, I'm betting that a large majority of TC players are all lower level players with a select few who are willing to go the extra mile and level up all the way. A character copy would bring in more players that would be able to test both mid range and end game content. I may be wrong, so correct me if I am.</p><p>Message Edited by Kiro on <span class="date_text">01-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:17 AM</span></p>

[JuJut]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kiro wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>This horse has been beaten to beyond death.  Odd how it only gets dug up when a big change is coming.  I find it funny that folks from live only care about 'testing' when there is a big change.<p>Sunrayn, 55 guard--Test</p><p></p><hr></div><p>Right now as the current system stands, I'm betting that a large majority of TC players are all lower level players with a select few who are willing to go the extra mile and level up all the way. A character copy would bring in more players that would be able to test both mid range and end game content. I may be wrong, so correct me if I am.</p><p>Message Edited by Kiro on <span class="date_text">01-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:17 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Consider yourself corrected. The large majority of test server players have high level charcters, low level characters, mid-range characters. This is our home server so gaining levels is not going the extra mile, its playing the game. Its not like a production server in many ways, which is one reason many of us play there.</p><p>Sunrayn is right, this horse is beyond dead. He's also right, imo, that the only time the topic comes up is when some change or event is being tested. If you want to see for yourself [and read all the re-hashing of the aruments] do a search on character copy and see when the threads get started and when they die out.</p>

[Sunrayn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kiro wrote:<div></div><div></div><div><p> </p></div><p>But I guess the real question for you (and anyone else) is, what is your stance on that topic and why? Do you think a character copy would help or hurt the test center environment? I think anything thing that would get more players on TC would be helpful, especially if it allowed them to test what was important to them.</p><p>Right now as the current system stands, I'm betting that a large majority of TC players are all lower level players with a select few who are willing to go the extra mile and level up all the way. A character copy would bring in more players that would be able to test both mid range and end game content. I may be wrong, so correct me if I am.</p><p>Message Edited by Kiro on <span class="date_text">01-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:17 AM</span></p><p></p><p></p><hr><p> </p><p>On your first question:  What you, and many others that play on production servers fail to understand is, Test is a server, just like your live servers.  We pay the same $15.00 a month that you do, we level our characters, do the quests, hell, we even have guilds and a raiding alliance.</p><p>The only difference is, we test changes.  We see things first, often things that live servers never see.  We live with more bugs than any live server would put up with.  We have lost our guilds temporarily, one of my guild members lost his character in a zone crash, permanently.  With this last update, we lost over 100 points in all our skills.  We live with server crashes, unplanned fixes, zone crashes.  We have even had a dev purposely crashing the server.</p><p>All these things make test a very tight knit community.  Why? because us testers go through all these things together.  Sometimes we scream at some of the things that happen to us but, in the end,  we are all still there, Testing.</p><p>And now, you want to be able to copy your character over to live.  Tell me, what would you have done if you had gotten to copy a live character over to test and that character somehow got caught with the bug that lowered all your skills by 100+ points?</p><p>What would you have done if your guild had copied their characters over during the couple of days when guilds were broke on test?</p><p>This is what sets regular test players apart from those who want to copy their characters over.</p><p> </p><p>Sunrayn, 55 guard--Test</p><p></p></blockquote>

[Sritt]

<div></div><p>I've played on test servers for various MMOs and character copy is usually a bad idea. It has some of the same pitfalls for testing content that artificial levelling does. Any character in modern MMOs has a LOT of data and not all of it is very obvious or can be easily moved/copied over. All it takes is for the copy proccess to miss one piece of data and your character can end up very different on test, though you may not see the differences. Also test has a different code set than live, I've noticed that some things sit in test for a long time while other things go live fairly quickly.</p><p>19a is a good example of what can happen with a character copy by seeing what happened to existing characters already on test: the loss of skill points (sometimes dropping harvests to 0), new/duplicate spells, and a host of other glitches and bugs for those characters who were under level 20 (and especially those still on the IoR). THe nice thing is because those characters were here and got hit with this it means the devs can fix it before things go live so all the non-test players don't suddenly get 'crippled'.</p><p>THe other thing with character copy is it encourages a mind-set of "well there's a change coming for my <X class> so I should copy over and see how that will affect him". This makes for a poor test environment as the focus becomes not the content but how the changes affect just the player's favorite character. I've already seen this on the newbie islands and some of these posts where people are focusing on just one thing (usually their main character's class). Many also aren't grasping this is just phase one of the changes, with more changes and content coming.</p><p>I have started playing on test here with these changes because the low-level revamp is something I want to see happen (being an alt-o-holic). Also now that my main on live is 57 I'm not focusing on him so have time to put in to checking out testing. I think in just the past few days I've /bugged about 30 things, /feedbacked about 20 times, /typoed about 40 things, and made I don't know how many posts here with things I found. Once this update goes live half the people testing right now will stop playing here and never touch test again until another big change comes along. Character copy would just increase the number who do something like that, its not beneficial to the test server (and therefore the live server).</p><p>The test server is to test potential live content, not to get a sneak peek at what's coming up (though I'm sure some do that considering how fast many new items get world discoveries moments after a patch goes live).</p>

[Razidd]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Dalick wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Thormiel wrote:<blockquote><hr>Dalick wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Xalmat wrote:Beta Tests != Test Server.<hr></blockquote><p>Wrong, the beta server and the Test server are 2 diffrant servers. </p><hr></blockquote>I believe that's what Xalmat said. The signs != together like that means not the same.<hr>LOL Learn something new everyday. Looked to me as if it meant equals the same. No biggie. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </blockquote><hr></blockquote>For those who have never done programming or scripting (or aren't into higher mathmatics), it looks.. umm.. arcane and isn't all that deciferable.  But.. the programming/scripting shortcuts are too alluring for some of us.  Think of them in the same way that everyone makes abreviations out of mob names, drop items, HQ or other quest rewards, or even real life stuff.!      means "not" (and is frequenly called a "bang" not an exclaimation point)!=    is then "not equal"!<    would be "not less than"!>    "not greater than", etc=<   "less than or equal to"=>   "less than or greater to"Not singling out your post or implying you're not intelligent for not knowing these, just trying to dispell the confusion for you and others that might read such abbreviations. It's just the same, as I said before as talking about the FBSS, the EBBC, PP, DOF, KOS, TS, FP, EL, Jboots, etc.  It's arcane to someone who doesn't know it, no matter their level of intelligence or gameplay abilities.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Hmmm, not sure if it's different for different programming languages, but for Java at least I believe >= was used for greater than or equal to while <= was used for less than or equal to.

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Razidd wrote:<div></div>Hmmm, not sure if it's different for different programming languages, but for Java at least I believe >= was used for greater than or equal to while <= was used for less than or equal to.<hr></blockquote>You are correct. Plus, I've never once seen a language where you could use !< or !>...</span><div></div>

[Sritt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Razidd wrote:<div></div>Hmmm, not sure if it's different for different programming languages, but for Java at least I believe >= was used for greater than or equal to while <= was used for less than or equal to.<hr></blockquote>You are correct. Plus, I've never once seen a language where you could use !< or !>...</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>True as !> and !< would be much easier as >= and <= (the first pair would be prime obfuscation). I suspect the error with the original post was a cut and paste issue and not intentional. At least nobody's used ~= yet <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Dalick]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kiro wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>This horse has been beaten to beyond death.  Odd how it only gets dug up when a big change is coming.  I find it funny that folks from live only care about 'testing' when there is a big change.<p>Sunrayn, 55 guard--Test</p><p></p><hr></div><p>I'm not just interested in testing the big changes, I'd play on test center fairly often (like when ever my main was out of vitality)</p><p>The only thing holding me back is the time I'd have to invest in getting another zerker to where I'm at.</p><p>The whole point of test center is to see how it'll affect the live game, and for me that means how it would affect the zerker class. So in order to test this I'd have to create a zerker and level it clear to where I'm at. The thought of that is painful. I'm okay with leveling a different class, as it'll offer a different experience, but I don't want to have to level another zerker as it wouldn't offer very many new experiences.</p><p>So, bottom line, I still think a character copy would be a great idea, and the fact that it's been "beaten to beyond death" is a good thing in my opinion, as it shows that there are probably lots of other people out there that feel the same way I do.</p><p>But I guess the real question for you (and anyone else) is, what is your stance on that topic and why? Do you think a character copy would help or hurt the test center environment? I think anything thing that would get more players on TC would be helpful, especially if it allowed them to test what was important to them.</p><p><font color="#ff6600">Right now as the current system stands, I'm betting that a large majority of TC players are all lower level players with a select few who are willing to go the extra mile and level up all the way. A character copy would bring in more players that would be able to test both mid range and end game content. I may be wrong, so correct me if I am.</font></p><p>Message Edited by Kiro on <span class="date_text">01-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:17 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>ROFLMFAO Oh my God did you open a can of worms there my friend. Test players are some of the most dedicated players you will see in an EQ game. They pay to live there and see that as many of the bugs as possible dont go live. This statement is like spiting right in thier face. LOL what I wouldnt give to see some of thier faces after that though.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Ki]

<div></div><div><p><font color="#ff6600">Right now as the current system stands, I'm betting that a large majority of TC players are all lower level players with a select few who are willing to go the extra mile and level up all the way. A character copy would bring in more players that would be able to test both mid range and end game content. I may be wrong, so correct me if I am.</font></p><p>Message Edited by Kiro on <span class="date_text"><font color="#756b56">01-17-2006</font></span><span class="time_text">09:17 AM</span></p><hr><p>ROFLMFAO Oh my God did you open a can of worms there my friend. Test players are some of the most dedicated players you will see in an EQ game. They pay to live there and see that as many of the bugs as possible dont go live. This statement is like spiting right in thier face. LOL what I wouldnt give to see some of thier faces after that though.</p><p></p><hr><p> </p><p>Well I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone, which is why I asked to be corrected in case I was wrong. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>On another note I do want the testers to know that their dedication is appreciated, but I'd also like to point out that many of us that play on the live servers would like a chance to be able to test out various changes on test, without having to spend those countless hours, and so I still stand by my original request for a character copy transfer. I know it may never happen, and if that's the case then no worries, I'll just play occasionally and maybe in 5 years I'll make 60 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p></div>

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>JuJutsu wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kiro wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>This horse has been beaten to beyond death.  Odd how it only gets dug up when a big change is coming.  I find it funny that folks from live only care about 'testing' when there is a big change.<p>Sunrayn, 55 guard--Test</p><p></p><hr></div><p>Right now as the current system stands, I'm betting that a large majority of TC players are all lower level players with a select few who are willing to go the extra mile and level up all the way. A character copy would bring in more players that would be able to test both mid range and end game content. I may be wrong, so correct me if I am.</p><p>Message Edited by Kiro on <span class="date_text">01-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:17 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Consider yourself corrected. The large majority of test server players have high level charcters, low level characters, mid-range characters. This is our home server so gaining levels is not going the extra mile, its playing the game. Its not like a production server in many ways, which is one reason many of us play there.</p><p>Sunrayn is right, this horse is beyond dead. He's also right, imo, that the only time the topic comes up is when some change or event is being tested. If you want to see for yourself [and read all the re-hashing of the aruments] do a search on character copy and see when the threads get started and when they die out.</p><hr></blockquote>Actually, I've noticed the arguement generally coming about when there is someone who wants an early peek at something so they can figure how to "beat" or exploit it first when it hits Live, but, again, not really to test it.BTW, the reason I created a gnome wizard (albeit on the opposite side) which is my main is because it is the class I have the most experience with and so had at least a base-line with which to look at the changes.  I did it to be able to provide feedback, not only to the devs, but also to other people who never set foot on Test.  Me rolling up other character classes might not have as much impact.  Me playing my less than 20 former predator (now assassin) might also not be as valid because I don't really have knowledge of the class in a wider play (I have a mid 20s ranger on Live, but no assassin).  Even trying out a conjurer on Test wouldn't have as much connection to what a conjurer is like in later levels and how the earlier levels recreate that now, since I don't play on on Live at all.I had before tried to parcel out time to level up an alchemist in my "infinite spare time" because that's my primary tradeskill on Live and it's what I have the most experience with (tradeskill-wise) so I have a base-line for the class... but... to really do it justice, I know I would have to spend a lot more time on Test than I have left to allocate between work, other real life stuff, playing on Live with my friends, and keeping track of what is going on in alchemy on Live. Test really is a different game and I applaud those who devote themselves to playing there. I wouldn't want to see a global "copy" since, I agree, it wouldn't do any real Testing beyond seeing how thus and so character behaves with thus and so tweak.  It wouldn't "mimic" real game play in any way shape or form.But... if the devs were to do like SWG did a few times and do a "server copy" to a second test server for a span of time with changes enabled (and the intention to wipe or reset that copy after a bit), THAT might a better Test for some of the sweeping changes since the characters copied with the -server- would be in the same state and progression from that server.  It would also be a way to test things with a higher population.  But.. even then, you have to have players willing and dedicated to playing on that test version.  Something, I think, they found just did not happen in SWG.  Those players who had a choice of playing on their regular server or the 100% copied server that would be wiped in a week or so generally chose to play on the regular since they wouldn't "lose" anything they "gained" in the copy.  Thus... the intent to have a close to Live environment with a high population playing.. well.. failed.</span><div></div>

[Sunrayn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kiro wrote:<div></div><div><p> </p><p>Well I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone, which is why I asked to be corrected in case I was wrong. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>On another note I do want the testers to know that their dedication is appreciated, but I'd also like to point out that many of us that play on the live servers would like a chance to be able to test out various changes on test, without having to spend those countless hours, and so I still stand by my original request for a character copy transfer. I know it may never happen, and if that's the case then no worries, I'll just play occasionally and maybe in 5 years I'll make 60 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p></div><hr></blockquote><p>And I still ask you.  What would you have done if your copied character had somehow gotten hit with the skill loss bug?  What would you have done if your guild that had been copied over had gotten there at the same time guilds were broke and it was like nobody was even in a guild?  What would you have done if your copied character had recieved a spell or 3 in the mail and it was lost when our mail system went down?</p><p>Nothing against you personally but, I think you would have just said 'screw this', logged out, and went back to your live character.  We, on test, have to live with these things.  Your copied character has nothing to lose.  You can just log out of your copied character and go back to live where everything is fine.</p><p>Thats why I am against character copies. </p>

[Ki]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sunrayn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kiro wrote:<div></div><div><p> </p><p>Well I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone, which is why I asked to be corrected in case I was wrong. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>On another note I do want the testers to know that their dedication is appreciated, but I'd also like to point out that many of us that play on the live servers would like a chance to be able to test out various changes on test, without having to spend those countless hours, and so I still stand by my original request for a character copy transfer. I know it may never happen, and if that's the case then no worries, I'll just play occasionally and maybe in 5 years I'll make 60 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p></div><hr></blockquote><p>And I still ask you.  What would you have done if your copied character had somehow gotten hit with the skill loss bug?  What would you have done if your guild that had been copied over had gotten there at the same time guilds were broke and it was like nobody was even in a guild?  What would you have done if your copied character had recieved a spell or 3 in the mail and it was lost when our mail system went down?</p><p>Nothing against you personally but, I think you would have just said 'screw this', logged out, and went back to your live character.  We, on test, have to live with these things.  Your copied character has nothing to lose.  You can just log out of your copied character and go back to live where everything is fine.</p><p>Thats why I am against character copies. </p><hr></blockquote><p>Well, personally I'd keep playing on test. I've been through enough betas to understand what a test server is. I personally participated in the SWG, EQ2 and WoW betas - so I know what it's like to have stats disapear, characters wiped, and even the oh so loved roll back. So, I wouldn't say screw this, I'd say man this sucks, lets go see what else is broken - or what else works. But that's just me.</p>