Not enougn to do Level 1-4

[Maroger]

<div>There really doesn't seem much for a newbie to do at levels 1-4 that will get their skills up so they can fight the higher levels mobs.  By level 3 you can get handed some quests in which the mobs are under-cons and way too difficult especially for casters.</div><div> </div><div>Is it the function of the practice NPCS in the training area to help us raise our skill levels?</div><div>Also you need some sort of start tutorial that walks the real newbie through the interface as you had on the ship. Those quests on the ship got you to level 2 by the time you landed and few other simple ones against Gruttooth got you level 4 and ready for the tougher mobs. Currently there is nothing that does that other than picking some blue mobs and grinding away on them till you get your skils and level up.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[thorvang]

there's the trainers, explaining how the game works. your first quest is just to travel between some spots and it should grant enough exp to nearly hit level 2. after killing some mobs (first quest) you should ding 2.what you have "learned" with this first two quests is 1) how to move your character (learning by doing) and 2) killing mobs is exp <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />the boat tutorial has been a nice tutorial, but explaining players how to actually move a character (it's possible with wasd, arrow keys and the mouse) shouldn't be nescessary anymore since nearly all 3d games work this way.

[Maroger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>thorvang wrote:there's the trainers, explaining how the game works. your first quest is just to travel between some spots and it should grant enough exp to nearly hit level 2. after killing some mobs (first quest) you should ding 2.what you have "learned" with this first two quests is 1) how to move your character (learning by doing) and 2) killing mobs is exp <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />the boat tutorial has been a nice tutorial, but explaining players how to actually move a character (it's possible with wasd, arrow keys and the mouse) shouldn't be nescessary anymore since nearly all 3d games work this way.<hr></blockquote><p>Right now there is just a tour of the outpost as a quest giving XP. There is no real tour of the trainers -- There should be something like the tour of the trainers that was put into EQ1.</p><p>I agree that nearly all 3d games work the same way, but suppose that you are a child who had been given this as his first 3d game? A more seasoned player can click thru the stuff or skipt but the real newbie needs this stuff.</p><p>Beginnings of any game should aimed at the lowest common denominator and based on the assumption that the beginner is a true beginner not a seasoned player starting an alt.</p>

[thorvang]

i'm not a fan of this "least common denominator"-concept. my vote goes for a "median denominator"-concept. striking out extremes (those who never touched a pc before and those who played action rpgs / fps / strategy / etc. 24/7 for their whole life)you have to adapt your product to your target group. a mmog like eq2 isn't meant as an introduction to 3D gaming. it's just a game that makes use of a common interface. if you need to actually learn how to play 3D games there's plenty other products out there who will lend you a helping hand while doing so.but this thread isn't about the introduction to how to play soley <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> i concur that exp gained while doing quets seems slower than nescessary to keep your level on par with the quests' level. but i'm not so sure if this is plainly wrong. it gives you an impression how level progression will be in the "real world".

[Sritt]

<div></div>NOw that they have discovery exp in place it only takes two of the goblins running around to ding 2. I think maybe they should up the level 1 quest slightly so completing it will ding you to 2 if you get the discovery exp for the tavern area and the glade you get sent to on quest 2 (so the quest itself won't level you but getting to the glade will, assuming you didn't already hit the glade while doing quest 1, then finishing quest 1 will level you). I think a very slight bump in the experience on each of the storyline quests will be enough to pretty much insure that by the time you reach the cave you're level 6 which is the target level for the cave (once they get the cave balance right so it can be solo'ed).

[Happyfunba]

<div>Though I doubt many of us read our manuals, a "true" newbie to this or perhaps even all MMO's should be reading it in which case it already has a detailed enough cheat sheet on the back page listing all the basic movement, menu and attack keys. Having such explainations built into the tutorial in my opinion is a mood breaker and makes the game feel "dumb".</div><div> </div><div>Aside from the damage and skill-up issues, I found this new tutorial to be light-years better than the original. It's unobtrusive in many ways, the progression is (or will be) reasonably quick, and I didn't feel as though the first few levels of my character were throw-away levels. There's just enough to do on the island to give people an understanding of the game and their character before pushing them into the real world instead of the isle being a second holding ground for newbies where they aren't quite in a tutorial anymore but can't see everyone else who's actually playing the game yet either.</div>

[Maroger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Happyfunball wrote:<div>Though I doubt many of us read our manuals, a "true" newbie to this or perhaps even all MMO's should be reading it in which case it already has a detailed enough cheat sheet on the back page listing all the basic movement, menu and attack keys. Having such explainations built into the tutorial in my opinion is a mood breaker and makes the game feel "dumb".</div><div> </div><div>Aside from the damage and skill-up issues, I found this new tutorial to be light-years better than the original. It's unobtrusive in many ways, the progression is (or will be) reasonably quick, and I didn't feel as though the first few levels of my character were throw-away levels. There's just enough to do on the island to give people an understanding of the game and their character before pushing them into the real world instead of the isle being a second holding ground for newbies where they aren't quite in a tutorial anymore but can't see everyone else who's actually playing the game yet either.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Ok then what are all these NPCs standing around for? Of course right now most don't say anything but I assume eventually they will and what they will say will be explanation of Heroic opportunities, collections, etc. etc. There has to be something in the game to guide a bewildered player towards these NPC's for help. I thought EQ1 in their newbie tutorial did that really well.</p><p>You could have an option for those that think they know it all to skip the NPCs and rush out and get right into the game. But I do agree that this is way ahead of the old IOR -- it just needs lots of tweaking yet before it hits prime time.</p><p>WoW had a great newbie intro to their game but I think they may have let you level too fast. But they got you off to a fast and fun start which encouraged people to keep playing and  paying. What you want the starter Island to do is to be fun for everyone and so that new players are having sufficient fun to want to keep playing and paying.</p><p>The goal is to present the game in its best light and ensure that players have fun on the island. Remember how many players had fun on IOR and were in for a shock when they got to their home city and ended up cancelling.</p><p>I know you all hate the "lowest common denominator" but I believe you have to do that and let the game get gradually harder as they learn the game mechnics. The lowest common denominator  player may still buy and want to play this game -- it is the developers job to make sure they have fun and want to keep playing while they come up to speed. Otherwise they won't stay any longer in the game than their initial free month -- and that is certainly NOT what anyone wants.</p>

[Ariaya]

Overall I'm much happier with the state of the current "newbie" islands, however I have to admit that I wonder how a true new player will figure it all out.I know that they're working on the trainer dialoge and maybe there's a quest with that. I did love how they did it in EQ1 .. talk to one guy .. do stuff to learn how to do what he asked .. then he sends you to the next guy. And on the way you pass other NPCs with quests and other items for you.There definately needs to be something for the true new player. Unfortunately, expecting that they will read the manual will only lead to frustrated newbies IMO.