What just happened to our damage?

[WascalWabb]

<div></div>I presume we've just had an update to the test server (although I can't find any update notes as of yet) as we are now getting exploration XP and skills seems to be levelling up at their old rate. But, our damage seems to have been severely reduced.My SK's "Painful Swing" now does 2 - 4 damage while "Condemning Smite" does 5 - 8. I'm pretty sure they were both doing a lot more than that earlier. Was this intentional or just an unintended side-effect of the other changes?Edit: Just checked my DE Wizard and "Fire Chamber" is now 17 - 28 damage. This was doing about twice that before the update (which did feel slightly overpowered if I'm being honest, but then wizards are supposed to be the best nukers <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />).<div></div><p>Message Edited by WascalWabbit on <span class="date_text">01-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:33 AM</span></p>

[Griffinclaw]

<div></div><div></div><p>yeah it looks like they lowered our damage quite a bit, but thats okay in my book.  I can actually hit things now, instead of being blocked and parried 5 times in a row.  Also have to remeber these are lvl 1 and lvl 2 spells,  We never even had lvl 1-2 before, we were automatically lvl 3 when we got off the boat.  They are also all app1 spells,  if they had been left at the same damage, can you imagine what Adept iii's would have been like.</p><p>by the way, one of the reasons are skills were going up Soooooo Slow before, is because, you could kill something with a Combat art, and it would never even hit you.  Kind of hard to raise Defense and weapon skills when you never use them</p><p>Message Edited by Griffinclaw on <span class="date_text">01-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:10 AM</span></p>

[Sritt]

<div></div>But my basic melee attack appears to be doing a little less, and the block/parry on horse sentries and bears at least is only slightly less often than before. Also a blue encounter is wasting my level 5 shadowknight, doesn't help that even with 21 in each defense and parry he has a 0.0% avoidance.

[Darthus]

I agree, this is a bit extreme. People were already saying that it was more difficult in the newbie area in what we're testing, quests were having you fight level 5 mobs while you're level 3. After whatever happened, my melee strikes (on my DE Assassin) are parried or blocked about 50% of the time, and rest is 1 damage. Including my ambush, quick strike and gash, they aren't doing one damage, but definintely less, and are blocked more than half the time. It take me literally two minutes to kill a level 3 bear cub at level 4. If I don't die. The one positive thing is that now that fights last forever I can actually get some use out of my gash. Seems kind of a silly skill to give to a newbie at level 2 or 3 when it requires you to be in combat for 30 seconds to actually see its main effect. I think that should be lowered a bit. And the newbie island is supposed to be easy, in order to introduce people to the game, and let them raise a few levels, have fun. If we, as experienced players are having difficulties killing monsters lower level than us, think about the completely new people.I'm actually assuming this is a bug rather than a "feature", I just wanted to respond to the person who seemed to be treating it as a bonus difficulty level.<div></div>

[Deadly Nightshadow]

<div></div>It seems that some classes are doing better than others right now. My Ranger can waste a mob when CAs are up in seconds but when they're down....Autoattack just doesn't cut it. Also, I had real trouble before the stun at level 6. I think it should be given at 3 tbh.

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Darthus27 wrote:People were already saying that it was more difficult in the newbie area in what we're testing, quests were having you fight level 5 mobs while you're level 3.<div></div><hr></blockquote>The quest giver says to come back to her when you are ready for the next step.  That means you -can- go and kill some other stuff (or the same stuff you just did) to raise your level a bit.  Unless it's mis-colouring of the quests, I was being given RED quests.  My first thought was that I needed to stay in the area I had the previous quest to get a little more experience.  I haven't logged in this morning, but the "con level" of the quest was meaningless before since it was cake to kill the stuff for a red quest.</span><div></div>

[Borre]

Wow my heroic opportunities on my level 6 monk are doing a whopping 2 points of damage each time I use them.  None of them has gone over 2, it's a waste for me to even use them right now.<div></div>

[Success]

<div></div>I really don't understand their whole idea of messing with the low end anyway. Things were fine the way they were. They are always messing with stuff that isn't broke and not fixing the stuff that is.

[Sritt]

<div></div><p>THe point is they're doing away with the refugee theme. The seas have settled, things are expanding. Now the low end people aren't some commoner just learning to be an adventurer. They're trained on the basics of their chosen profession and being sent by the Queen or the Overlord to colonies/outposts to help out with problems and prove their worth for citizenship.</p><p>That's why there's no more subclass progressions for adventurers and the newbie char starts with some class specific equipment (torso, legs, weapon, feet as I recall). The main questline then gives them some more equipment named after their aligned city. It's being done partially as an evolving storyline for the world, you can't have refugees pouring in for centuries after a cataclysm after all, eventually the survivors will all be accounted for and your stock of new adventurers will come from the villages or cities and those born there.</p><p>The other reason is there was a significant number of people who didn't care for the subclass system and with the combat changes your character's feel and how you played them could change significantly at level 10 and again at 20. So now you get to just decide what you want to be up front and learn the feel of your class as you level.</p><p>Once you get off the newbie island (which you can do at level 1 if you wish, they made the animals in the villages killable so you can get xp that way) you have the option of doing a series of quests for a racial mentor who gets you familiar with your home village as well as the mindset and 'world role' of your race of choice. It's a nice bit of immersion and a good way to introduce new players to the race dynamics of the world (my dark elf got introduced to the two factions of dark elves: Tier'Dal and Thexian by his race mentor).</p><p>This revamp of low end isn't to 'fix' something broken, its to adapt to an evolving game world, and keep the game feeling fresh for existing players, and giving new players a better feel of getting into the game world. Now rather than two cloned islands against goblins and an orc, you have two distinct islands with different NPCs, quests, population and you're opposition is the other city not some neutral threat.</p>

[Maroger]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><p>THe point is they're doing away with the refugee theme. The seas have settled, things are expanding. Now the low end people aren't some commoner just learning to be an adventurer. They're trained on the basics of their chosen profession and being sent by the Queen or the Overlord to colonies/outposts to help out with problems and prove their worth for citizenship.</p><p>That's why there's no more subclass progressions for adventurers and the newbie char starts with some class specific equipment (torso, legs, weapon, feet as I recall). The main questline then gives them some more equipment named after their aligned city. It's being done partially as an evolving storyline for the world, you can't have refugees pouring in for centuries after a cataclysm after all, eventually the survivors will all be accounted for and your stock of new adventurers will come from the villages or cities and those born there.</p><p>The other reason is there was a significant number of people who didn't care for the subclass system and with the combat changes your character's feel and how you played them could change significantly at level 10 and again at 20. So now you get to just decide what you want to be up front and learn the feel of your class as you level.</p><p>Once you get off the newbie island (which you can do at level 1 if you wish, they made the animals in the villages killable so you can get xp that way) you have the option of doing a series of quests for a racial mentor who gets you familiar with your home village as well as the mindset and 'world role' of your race of choice. It's a nice bit of immersion and a good way to introduce new players to the race dynamics of the world (my dark elf got introduced to the two factions of dark elves: Tier'Dal and Thexian by his race mentor).</p><p>This revamp of low end isn't to 'fix' something broken, its to adapt to an evolving game world, and keep the game feeling fresh for existing players, and giving new players a better feel of getting into the game world. Now rather than two cloned islands against goblins and an orc, you have two distinct islands with different NPCs, quests, population and you're opposition is the other city not some neutral threat.</p><hr></blockquote><p>But they still need some sort of quests to get you acquainted with the interface and game mechanics. The current islands only really work for EQ2 players starting ALTS - a true newbie will be totally lost and die so much they will hate the game. </p><p>While the story line is evolving they still need to make it more newbie friendly which right now it isn't. Also the whole island, every part of it, needs to be soloable by every class - that is the gold standard for games now.</p><p>They need some sort of little quest to get you talking to all those NPCs and some fed-ex quest like harvest 6 pieces of severed elm and bring it to me etc. </p><p>Message Edited by Maroger on <span class="date_text">01-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:49 PM</span></p>

[Sritt]

<div></div><p>Well the current first quest to go around the village to different points will bring you close to all the NPCs that have trainer labels, letting people see they are there and if they want to learn about that aspect they can talk to them. Also in Freeport there's a quest that makes you go and talk to a lot of the NPCs around the Outpost, not to learn what they have to say but it at least has you talking to them all.</p><p>And the boat isn't/wasn't mandatory, there was nothing stopping a first time player from skipping it and going directly to the island. All the information a newbie needs is there should they bother to ask, its just not shoved in their face anymore. If they can't get the hang of things on their own and don't ask questions or go 'hey that's a trainer about combat there' and talk to the NPC they maybe shouldn't be playing. Purpose tags are on by default so unless the first thing they do is go into options and turn off things like that they'll see those NPCs and can decide for themselves if they want to talk to them.</p>

[Griffinclaw]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Maroger wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><p>THe point is they're doing away with the refugee theme. The seas have settled, things are expanding. Now the low end people aren't some commoner just learning to be an adventurer. They're trained on the basics of their chosen profession and being sent by the Queen or the Overlord to colonies/outposts to help out with problems and prove their worth for citizenship.</p><p>That's why there's no more subclass progressions for adventurers and the newbie char starts with some class specific equipment (torso, legs, weapon, feet as I recall). The main questline then gives them some more equipment named after their aligned city. It's being done partially as an evolving storyline for the world, you can't have refugees pouring in for centuries after a cataclysm after all, eventually the survivors will all be accounted for and your stock of new adventurers will come from the villages or cities and those born there.</p><p>The other reason is there was a significant number of people who didn't care for the subclass system and with the combat changes your character's feel and how you played them could change significantly at level 10 and again at 20. So now you get to just decide what you want to be up front and learn the feel of your class as you level.</p><p>Once you get off the newbie island (which you can do at level 1 if you wish, they made the animals in the villages killable so you can get xp that way) you have the option of doing a series of quests for a racial mentor who gets you familiar with your home village as well as the mindset and 'world role' of your race of choice. It's a nice bit of immersion and a good way to introduce new players to the race dynamics of the world (my dark elf got introduced to the two factions of dark elves: Tier'Dal and Thexian by his race mentor).</p><p>This revamp of low end isn't to 'fix' something broken, its to adapt to an evolving game world, and keep the game feeling fresh for existing players, and giving new players a better feel of getting into the game world. Now rather than two cloned islands against goblins and an orc, you have two distinct islands with different NPCs, quests, population and you're opposition is the other city not some neutral threat.</p><hr></blockquote><p>But they still need some sort of quests to get you acquainted with the interface and game mechanics. The current islands only really work for EQ2 players starting ALTS - a true newbie will be totally lost and die so much they will hate the game. </p><p>While the story line is evolving they still need to make it more newbie friendly which right now it isn't. Also the whole island, every part of it, needs to be soloable by every class - that is the gold standard for games now.</p><p>They need some sort of little quest to get you talking to all those NPCs and some fed-ex quest like harvest 6 pieces of severed elm and bring it to me etc. </p><p>Message Edited by Maroger on <span class="date_text">01-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:49 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>You have to also remember this is ALPHA testing, not even to BETA yet on the new 1- 20 content.  LU19b is supposed to have even more content for these levels.  So, who knows, there might be some instructions, via VO's to talk to all the NPC's there.

[WascalWabb]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Sritthh wrote:<div></div><p>THe point is they're doing away with the refugee theme. The seas have settled, things are expanding. Now the low end people aren't some commoner just learning to be an adventurer. They're trained on the basics of their chosen profession and being sent by the Queen or the Overlord to colonies/outposts to help out with problems and prove their worth for citizenship.</p><p>That's why there's no more subclass progressions for adventurers and the newbie char starts with some class specific equipment (torso, legs, weapon, feet as I recall). The main questline then gives them some more equipment named after their aligned city. It's being done partially as an evolving storyline for the world, you can't have refugees pouring in for centuries after a cataclysm after all, eventually the survivors will all be accounted for and your stock of new adventurers will come from the villages or cities and those born there.</p><p>The other reason is there was a significant number of people who didn't care for the subclass system and with the combat changes your character's feel and how you played them could change significantly at level 10 and again at 20. So now you get to just decide what you want to be up front and learn the feel of your class as you level.</p><p>Once you get off the newbie island (which you can do at level 1 if you wish, they made the animals in the villages killable so you can get xp that way) you have the option of doing a series of quests for a racial mentor who gets you familiar with your home village as well as the mindset and 'world role' of your race of choice. It's a nice bit of immersion and a good way to introduce new players to the race dynamics of the world (my dark elf got introduced to the two factions of dark elves: Tier'Dal and Thexian by his race mentor).</p><p>This revamp of low end isn't to 'fix' something broken, its to adapt to an evolving game world, and keep the game feeling fresh for existing players, and giving new players a better feel of getting into the game world. Now rather than two cloned islands against goblins and an orc, you have two distinct islands with different NPCs, quests, population and you're opposition is the other city not some neutral threat.</p><hr></blockquote>I have absolutely no problem with the 'content' of the new islands. In fact I think they are a vast improvement on the old IoR and once they get the dialog in for the rest of the NPC's/Trainers and fix the problems with some of the quests they will be great.What I do have a problem with is the decision to reduce everyone's damage output by around 50% or more. When my auto-attack is hitting for 1 point of damage and my CA's for 2 - 4 (that's the odd time they do actually hit and aren't blocked, parried or riposted) it means taking out an even-con mob takes forever and I'm usually well into the red by the time I'm done. Or take my level 6 DE Wizard. I tried killing some grey level 1 spider hatchlings in her starting area in FP with 'Fire Chamber' which, since it's on a 30 second timer I would class as her nuke spell at this level. 3 out of the 4 times I tried it did 20 damage and since judging by their HP bars these hatchlings have around 22 HP I was unable to nuke a grey level 1 mob at level 6 with a wizard who is supposed to be the ultimate nuking class in the game. On the original IoR I could 1-shot level 1 goblins with my priest's Smite 90% of the time!I just feel that the damage reduction was too severe and needs to be tweaked back up to be nearer what it was originally. By all means make things tougher as we get further into the game, but for the first 10 levels or so while people are still getting used the game it should not be this difficult to take out even-con or lower mobs.</span></div>

[Sritt]

<div></div>I'll agree with the difficulty. My shadowknight is just getting to the point he can do okay against whites, at level 12. He had 0 avoidance until I got defense and parry over 45 (sometime around level 10) and his damage is still fairly low. My warlock I made on the Qeynos side fared better than my shadowknight has been so far, wasting greens and blues in very little time and sometimes handling a yellow but not often due to resists against his spells.