New Class system and betrayal?

[duplicity]

On my main server I play a DE Monk, how is this going to be possible with the new class system?Daae ThymeAB<div></div>

[Bhee]

Excellent question. My alt is DE Conjurer on live servers. How should I make the same character/profession combination in test?Please help.<div></div>

[thorvang]

the betrayal quest gets changed slightly. i.e. when betraying freeport as a bruiser you turn into a monk after completing the quest.there are some threads about betrayal.

[ke'la]

<div></div>What would be really cool is allowing you to pick DE Monk at creation, then durring the quest sieries on the Isle you get aproched by a miserious stranger that says something like "You don't seem to fit in among the denisins of FP, when you get some experiance you should vist my friend (betral starter NPC) in (where the NPC is)." He maybe even gives you a quest to vist that NPC.

[Magu]

No, that is a bad idea. The Isle is too soon to force people to choose sides.<div></div>

[ironman2000]

<div>For new players it is going to be a problem.  This class change is supposed to help new players, if they decide they want to be a dark elf paladin for example, they won't know what to choose in preporation for when they betray.  They need to label the opposing classes with something to let new players know, like Paladin = Shadow Knight for the Betrayal or something in the class discription when you pick.  Also, for new players that do make a dark elf shadow knight, (with plans to betray as one example) and play up to level 14-17 for the betrayal when they get over to Qeynos and suddenly become a Paladin and lose all the abilities they got familiar with for 14-17 levels (depending on how soon they start betraying) are going to have a hard time adjusting, there is a big difference between the way a shadow knight and paladin abilities work.  I have done the betrayal both directions, I have a dark elf paladin and a high elf shadow knight, I see a lot of confusion for new players over this.  I mean all the spell Icons are going to be different, coming from Divine damage to Disease damage is a big change, you lose your Harm Touch and get Lay Hands, its going to be confusing for new players and I thought that was who this change was primarily for, to make it easier to play?  I like the changes, but this needs to be addressed somehow.</div>

[Silverpaws]

If you create a DE anything, you start in FP.  You wont get a choice of qeynos aligned classes, so the question about making a DE monk is mute.  You can still betray later on if you prefer to go from bruiser to monk.Anyone post 20 will not see any changes what so ever to their current class.<div></div>

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>ironman2000 wrote:<div>For new players it is going to be a problem.  This class change is supposed to help new players, if they decide they want to be a dark elf paladin for example, they won't know what to choose in preporation for when they betray.  They need to label the opposing classes with something to let new players know, like Paladin = Shadow Knight for the Betrayal or something in the class discription when you pick.  Also, for new players that do make a dark elf shadow knight, (with plans to betray as one example) and play up to level 14-17 for the betrayal when they get over to Qeynos and suddenly become a Paladin and lose all the abilities they got familiar with for 14-17 levels (depending on how soon they start betraying) are going to have a hard time adjusting, there is a big difference between the way a shadow knight and paladin abilities work.  I have done the betrayal both directions, I have a dark elf paladin and a high elf shadow knight, I see a lot of confusion for new players over this.  I mean all the spell Icons are going to be different, coming from Divine damage to Disease damage is a big change, you lose your Harm Touch and get Lay Hands, its going to be confusing for new players and I thought that was who this change was primarily for, to make it easier to play?  I like the changes, but this needs to be addressed somehow.</div><hr></blockquote>I don't think it will be all that confusing. It's just common sense - you change from one class to another, so you stop using the old skills and use the new ones.</span><div></div>

[dakota102003]

I think that all races should be avialble to both sides. It dosen't make since to have all halfings good or all dark elves evil. This would also take away some who betray to be dark elf paldin number 17346 or high elf shado knight 95748. By doing this the only ones to betray would be the ones that wanted to be in a good or evil only guild, people who don't like there home city, and other stuff. Just my thoughts<div></div>

[Silverpaws]

For 6 years there has been good and evil characters.  Please dont change that, ever. <div></div>

[dakota102003]

That was EQ1 this is EQ2 and you would think that now with the sundering that happened that races wouldn't be specific to start on only one side. I would think that the Queen's and Overlord's and races ideolgy would have changed to allow any to join the side they wanted to. Cataclismic events change people and circumstances.And all I'm talking about is just the races, keep the classes side specific.<div></div>

[Throbus]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>ke'la wrote:What would be really cool is allowing you to pick DE Monk at creation, then durring the quest sieries on the Isle you get aproched by a miserious stranger that says something like "You don't seem to fit in among the denisins of FP, when you get some experiance you should vist my friend (betral starter NPC) in (where the NPC is)." He maybe even gives you a quest to vist that NPC.<hr></blockquote>I think that's a cool idea. Maybe the class-selection window at the beginning can have another section denoted <b><font color="#cc0000">TRAITORS </font></b>or something. When a dark elf clicks on the monk (or any) icon in the </span><span><b><font color="#cc0000">TRAITORS </font></b></span><span>section, the descriptive text <b><i>clearly </i></b>states something like "This will be a difficult path for you. You must continue your training as a bruiser to avoid suspicion in Freeport. As your talent increases, you may seek out [betrayal NPC]. But, know this ... the fighting style of a bruiser will not be accepted in Qeynos. Once you are accepted as a monk in Qeynos, you will have to learn that fighting style instead." There should be an <b><i>extra </i></b>confirmation window for people selecting the traitor professions at this point.If you agree to the difficult path of a traitor, you should immediately receive a betrayal starter-quest (of level 15 or so) in your journal to talk to [betrayal NPC] in [NPC's zone]. The dark elf would then continue leveling as a bruiser until he takes on his betrayal quest, and continuing as a bruiser until betrayal is complete. At level 17/18, if you haven't completed the betrayal quest, you should be reminded about the experience cap and to complete the betrayal or abandon it and continue as a bruiser.The betrayal starter-quest should be deleteable, allowing the dark elf to continue as a bruiser or to begin the betrayal quest as is done now.</span></div>

[Cusashorn]

<div>Yeah but what about spells?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>There is quite a significant difference between shadowknight and paladin spells. What happens when that shadowknight becomes a paladin? What happens to all his spells he's earned up to that point?</div>

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div>Yeah but what about spells?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>There is quite a significant difference between shadowknight and paladin spells. What happens when that shadowknight becomes a paladin? What happens to all his spells he's earned up to that point?</div><hr></blockquote>The get converted to the App I version of the complimentary (given at the same level) spells/arts.</span><div></div>

[thorvang]

what's all the fuss about? when betraying your city it just has to state clearly, that nothing stays the same as before. you're about to change everything you have been before.i don't see any problem in this.

[Shirlyn]

I can definately see the problem.....how will those not already familiar with the game (like all of us here) know that for example, if they start a Mystic in Qeynos and plan to betray to FP, that they will become a Defiler?I think this is something the devs need to address before the class changes go live.<div></div>

[ironman2000]

<div></div>I like this thinking Throbus, that would be a good idea, have a third section in the character selection screen with the city aligned classes, IE: Paladin, SK, Monk, Bruiser etc and they when you click on what you want to become like you said it gives you a discription of what to expect and what you have to start out as.  Nice idea.

[selch]

<div></div><p>It is a roleplaying game, not beauty contest.</p><p>If you are Dark elf, you are plain evil, even if you press yourself opposite, it is in your blood. Just because females of "high elves" looks sexy, creating toon and getting back to Freeport next to main toon is plain stupid thing imo. Same for opposite.</p><p>Noone likes traitors.. </p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Sritt]

<div></div>I think the point is there's always those who don't fit the mold, fantasy novels are full of those who go against their race's/culture's views. Just because most dark elves are evil doesn't mean every single one has to be. THe Queen's colony even has an NPC who betrayed. She's a half elf and still shunned even though half elves can be either. SHe was raised in Freeport but realized that the Overlord was lying so betrayed. There's no reason a dark elf couldn't feel the same way. Its not just about the look of the character but the character themselves as to why many betray (I still think an Ogre monk would be an interesting mix heh).

[Magu]

And nothing stops you from betraying in EQ2, but they are NOT going to let you simply start a DE in Qeynos. You have to put in some work.<div></div>

[Sritt]

<div></div>Of course, the concern is that new players who may want to be a Dark Elf Paladin may not realize that they need to choose SHadowknight first then betray when they get to the right level. Unless they provide some way during character creation to know which classes are city restricted and what their corresponding opposite is it could upset a lot of players who are new to the game after the changes go live. Especially if they buy (or have bought) one of the existing packages since the manual will be totally outdated on the character creation proccess.

[Magu]

To address that, they could just make sure the icons match up for good/evil.<div></div>

[Sritt]

<div></div><p>I think they pretty much do, I noticed that the available classes are listed fighters, priests, mages, scouts though not sure the exact order matches in both. Might just be nice to add a sentence to teh description of them like: The shadowknight is the evil counterpart to Qeynos' paladins.</p><p>This means the information is there for those who bother to read but isn't adding any new mechanics, just a bit of flavor. If someone doesn't read the class description then they deserver what they get <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[ironman2000]

<div></div><div></div><div>Thanks Sritthh, guess I wasn't getting my point across, you stated what I was trying to say pretty well about new player and not knowing what is equal to what for betraying purposes.</div><p>Message Edited by ironman2000 on <span class="date_text">01-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:29 AM</span></p>