How will new player know what class to pick to betray later on?

[ironman2000]

<div>I played on the test server, I have to say all in all I like the feel of the islands, but I want to know, how is a new player going to know what class to choose if they want to betray and later on become the opposite class?  If someone on the good side wants to become a shadow knight down the road there is nothing that shows them they need to be a paladin.  I think this might cause some confusion.  I remember several new players, in the live game when it first started, playing warriors on the evil side thinking they would be a paladin when they betrayed and several playing warriors on the good side and getting to almost level 16 before they realized warriors on the good side don't become Shadow Knights either.  The way this is set up I can see a lot of people picking the wrong classes to be if they are changing cities later on.</div>

[NY Jon]

Are some classes greyed out if they pick an evil character??<div></div>

[Azamien-Dermorate]

<div>maybe the better question is ... how would a player know about the betrayal quest and not know the corresponding good/evil class counterparts.  If you know enough about the game to know that you CAN betray ... dont you already know about Shadowknight being the evil version of a goodly Paladin. </div>

[Shmogg]

<div></div><p>There is virtually no in-game information that relates to the original question and, as you noted, there wasn't before either. You do have a game manual with much more information. Or I did in the collectors edition anyway, not sure about what is currently shipping. Since the betrayal is billed as an "advanced" option I'd expect people who choose it to take advantage of a bit more research. Obviously from many threads on the boards, I expect too much. :smileysurprised:</p><blockquote><hr>NY Jones wrote:Are some classes greyed out if they pick an evil character??<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>No, new players choose a city (if a neutral race) or get assigned one (if an evil/good race) same as before. Then you have a screen with only the 16 "valid" choices for your city. Some of the blurbs mention the old classes but others do not and none of the references are anything like an intentional label.</p>

[ZeroRavesOn]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>NY Jones wrote:Are some classes greyed out if they pick an evil character??<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>The class select screen shows 16 icons corresponding to the 16 classes available in that alignment (after you pick good/evil)</p><p>The first row is fighters, second is priests, third is mages, fourth is scouts.  The left two colums are tlhe classes that exist in both cities, the right two are the classes that are city specific.  For a preexisting toon it greys out the classes that dont fall under the previously selected options.  (For a old good scout, only Troubador, Dirge, Ranger, and Swashbuckler are slectable and the other 12 cells are greyed out).</p><p>The two city specific columns reverse between cities, as shown before.</p><img src="http://plaza.ufl.edu/murrayw/eq2/classes.jpg"><p>Message Edited by ZeroRavesOn on <span class="date_text">01-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:09 PM</span></p>

[Magu]

They could quickly compare the good/evil sides of the class lists. The icons are in the same positions, I believe.<div></div>

[Shmogg]

<div></div>Ah, ZeroRavesOn, the picture shows what I was trying to describe. Much clearer that way! Also shows the bare-bones description you get.<blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:They could quickly compare the good/evil sides of the class lists. The icons are in the same positions, I believe.<div></div><hr></blockquote>It also shows that the classes are indeed not lined up at present; Swashbuckler and Brigand are the rogue classes.

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Shmogg wrote:<div></div>Ah, ZeroRavesOn, the picture shows what I was trying to describe. Much clearer that way! Also shows the bare-bones description you get.<blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:They could quickly compare the good/evil sides of the class lists. The icons are in the same positions, I believe.<div></div><hr></blockquote>It also shows that the classes are indeed not lined up at present; Swashbuckler and Brigand are the rogue classes.<hr></blockquote>Yes, the image didn't load when I posted, so I didn't realize someone had screencapped it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Araka]

<div></div><div>i'm really hesitant about levelling my freeport alt now as i'm not sure what these new changes will mean to me. My freeport enchanter is level 14 now and i was going to betray him to qeynos to become an illusionist before 18. My understanding from reading through all these posts is that if i remain this level, after the update goes live i'll be a coercer, becoming an illusionist if i betray. Is there still a level restriction for betraying?</div><div> </div>

[Shirlyn]

From what i understand, they will be keeping the betrayal at the same lvl range for the time being. However, all your spells will go to App 1 after you betray.<div></div>

[Araka]

<div></div>app1? so the masters i bought and the adept 3s i made are all taken away?

[LanatirInno]

<div>u buy masters for skills below level 20? you got too much money i can give you my charname, might as well give it to me <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Araka]

<div></div>nah, i harvest the rares for my adept 3s that i craft myself. i have one master 2 that i got for reaching level 14 so no charge there, and i bought 2 low level masters off the broker for 9-14g each. I made that much from doing quests and selling harvestables. Never sent a single copper over from my main character. I just don't want to waste my time harvesting for rare to make the rest of my adept 3s if they're all going to be nerfed to app1 post-betrayal.

[Sritt]

<div></div>I've seen two different reports on this, some say they go to App1 when you betray, others say they get converted to the new at the same level. My question is how do they determine which skills match up, just by level? With the new skill progressions I'm not sure all the spells have a direct equal other than by what level you gain the skill (and if you gain 2 in one level and have one at App3 and one at Adept1 which of your new skills gets which level?).

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Arakady wrote:<div></div>app1? so the masters i bought and the adept 3s i made are all taken away?<hr></blockquote>Most likely not, I believe people are misreading the dev post.</span><div></div>

[ZeroRavesOn]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gallenite wrote:<div>Many apologies for not replying to much all day today and leaving the Betrayal question seeming to hang.  It's been a day of near-constant not being at my desk.</div><div> </div><div>Our plans for Betrayal work out like this. </div><div> </div><div>1) The betrayal path and level range in which you can betray your home town remain the same as they are today.</div><div> </div><div>2) The quest does change slightly at the end.  If you are a non-native class in your new town, the end of the qust will also change your class to its opposite-aligned counterpart.  At that point, you are a person of the new class with Apprentice I abilities.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Later, as we expand the definition and role of Factions in the cities, we may be exploring the idea of faction-based betrayal that supports city betrayal at all levels.  However, we will definitely <strong><em>not </em></strong>be including that in this initial rollout of 1-20 class progression.</div><div> </div><div>We want the class transition to go as smoothly as possible, so we want to introduce as few changes as we need to get there.  Complicating betrayal immediately would introduce significant potential problems in what is already a complex piece of work.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>- Scott</div><div> </div><p>____Scott HartsmanSenior Producer, EverQuest II</p><span></span><div></div><hr></blockquote></span><span><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=6692#M6692">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testdev&message.id=6692#M6692</a><blockquote><hr>Magus` wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Arakady wrote:<div></div>app1? so the masters i bought and the adept 3s i made are all taken away?<hr></blockquote>Most likely not, I believe people are misreading the dev post.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>It seems that - to me at least - masters and adepts 3s will be converted to apprentice 1s when/if you betray and switch classes. (Speculation Alert) However, if a higher level, fluid faction betrayal system is added, that your character would be flagged with Master Swashbuckler spells that it cant use as a Brigand, for example.  That if there is a fluidity there, that if you betrayed back to Qeynos, then your character would be reimbursed those masters (End Speculation)</span><div></div>

[Crim001]

<div></div>Going back to the original post, I don't know where it says the different classes ingame, but if you want to know which side gets which classes, you should try reading the manual sometime :smileyhappy:.

[ironman2000]

<div>Well I know of several people even now that have berzerkers and warriors that had wanted to make shadowknights, I also know a few that did the same thing with the Necro, conjurer the way it is now.  Plus with the images above, it misaligns pretty much all the ones that can betray to the other side, the SK, Paladin, Monk, Bruiser are in the wrong spots to be corrisponding to each other. The Brigand and Swashbuckler aren't right either.  I didn't notice about the caster Icons, but they are probabally the same.</div>

[Deadly Nightshadow]

Mystic and Defiler icons aren't in the corresponding places.Neither are Templar and Inquisitor icons.<div></div>

[BoriKitty]

<div>Okay so just to verify if I decide to start a Necromancer I'm only in Freeport and stuck in Freeport if I want to continue being a Necromancer (post 1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  IF I decide to betray to Qeynos I will have to change from Necromancer to Conjurer?</div>

[Mor]

<span><blockquote><hr>BoriKitty wrote:<div>Okay so just to verify if I decide to start a Necromancer I'm only in Freeport and stuck in Freeport if I want to continue being a Necromancer (post 1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  IF I decide to betray to Qeynos I will have to change from Necromancer to Conjurer?</div><hr></blockquote>Yes.  But this isn't new -- it's always worked this way.</span><div></div>

[Nem]

<div></div><p>I have a question for anyone who has tried this yet but what about the neutral classes?</p><p>Guardian/Beserker, Dirge/Troubadour, Wizard/Warlok, and Fury/Warden.</p><p>If you do the betrayal as one of these clases will you also automatically change to the corresponding class even though both classes are available in both cities?</p><p>Just wondering.</p>

[Shirlyn]

I would assume no. Since they are avail in both cities, there isnt that disconnect for say illusionist/coercer.I betrayed with my Fury and when it came time to choose a subclass, I still had the choice Warden/Fury.

[Sritt]

<div></div><div></div><p>I'm trying to get my Shadowknight to betray, but with no cham totems on the brokers on test its impossible to get to the quest NPC to start the betrayal at level 14 since there's at least 3 groups of yellow and orange aggro snakes betweem me and the NPC with no way to get around them. I'd done this once before on live but that was with a predator so had sneak.</p><p>My concern is that if all my skills get dropped to App1 do I get to repick my level 14 master 2 for my new class (in this case Paladin).</p><p>Honestly I wish you could keep your class, just have the NPCs warn you that things won't be as easy for you since you won't have a trainer (and you'd miss out on the level 20, 40, and 50 fun spells).</p><p>I noticed that some of the adept 1 books out there auto-convert to yoru classes skill when you scribe them (the generic scout a1 that I picked up switched to slice A1 on my swashy), so not sure why this couldn't be handled for betraying so when your class switched you get your A2-M2 skills auto-switched to an equivalent skill on the new class.</p><p> </p><p>Also as far as new players knowing which classes line up I realized something. THey won't know about betrayal unless they read the class section of the user manual, read about it on the forums, or hear about it from a friend. In all those cases that means its fairly likely they've found out which classes correspond to each other. Someone who hasn't read the forums or manual isn't going to know that you can betray and switch sides so isn't going to be planning "well I want to start out as dark elf but betray to Qeynos, so which class do I really want to end up as".</p><p>That means this concern isn't a big deal, though I still think the text description for a class should mention its opposite for city-restricted classes. It helps give someone new a feel for what sets the cities apart and who their potential rivals/counterparts will be. I don't know how many times new players think that because I'm a monk I can heal, buff, and revive them. I think many don't realize monks in EQ2 are more the Asian/martial arts style monk and not the Catholic church style monk (which in fantasy translates to a healer).</p><p>Message Edited by Sritthh on <span class="date_text">01-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:35 PM</span></p>

[ironman2000]

<div></div>If that part is the same, Sritthh, you can just hall butt to get to the room with the guy or see if you can borrow a high level to grey things out for you to get there.  Personally I just sprinted and when you get to the room there was a guard that would take care of anything still following you.

[BoriKitty]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Morie wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>BoriKitty wrote:<div>Okay so just to verify if I decide to start a Necromancer I'm only in Freeport and stuck in Freeport if I want to continue being a Necromancer (post 1<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  IF I decide to betray to Qeynos I will have to change from Necromancer to Conjurer?</div><hr></blockquote>Yes.  But this isn't new -- it's always worked this way.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I know this isn't new since I've been playing for a while but does the new player know that once you pick a Necromancer you will never get the option to betray and KEEP Necromancer.  There has to be some notation in the Character Select screen like "if you betray you become a Conjurer"