Feedback: Subclass 1-19 Combat/Spell Balance

[Lockeye]

<div>Please submit any feedback related to subclass balance between levels 1-19. Is the content for your subclass too easy, too difficult, certain abilities that are underpowered or overpowered at that level range? Thank You for your time and help <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Griffinclaw]

<div>I might be wrong, but the lvl 3 Brigand skill " Feint " was doing between 69 and 115 in damage.  That seemed a little to overpowerful for a lvl 3 skill.  Now, I know that the skill will be used for several levels, but at app1, 115 seems a little high.</div>

[Allurana]

<div></div><p>I started a brand new good gnome monk today to check out the changes and am generally pleased with what you all did to the starting zone and the newbie zones in town.</p><p>I found it actually tougher than before, which I think is a good thing.</p><p>I have 2 items, in particular, that I would like to give feedback on:</p><p>1.  I think the re-use timers on the monk abilities were a bit too long.  I would barely get to use them once per fight.  Never even had a chance of running out of power.</p><p>2.  I think someone should look at the monk attack rating when equiping the 1 starter dual-wield fist weapon versus using bare fists.  I noticed that I was having a really hard time hitting mobs with the fist weapon equipped and tried unequipping it thinking that only having 1 of them equipped was stopping me from actually hitting with both hands.  Once I unequipped it, I immediately noticed I was totally destroying the mobs very very fast.  So I looked at the P screen and noticed that my attack rating with the 1 dual wield weapon equipped was something like 72 but with bare fists it was something like 527.</p><p>Of course, lots of quest issues which I sent /bug reports on but that is to be expected on a change this big.</p><p>Once again, congratulations on a very nice start to LU19.  I didn't get to test out all the features in it but I really liked what I saw.</p><p>No more citizen quest gets 2 thumbs up from me.</p>

[brazenbrit]

<div>A lvl 8/9 assassin is playing fine, using similar strategies as I would use as a lvl 15-19 predator - which is great.  I didn't notice any skills being set down to 0 when selecting the class, so maybe that's only affecting a few.</div><div> </div><div>It's so nice to be able to actually be an assassin (albeit a *very* weak one!) right away.  Up to lvl 20 has always just seemed tedious and boring, and this alleviates a lot of that.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[StaAk]

<div>As a fighter class, it seems like the defensive skills (defense, parry, deflection) increase waaaay too slow compared to the speed you gain levels. I found myself at level 4 with 0.0% in base/parry avoidance simply because my skills were still at 10-12.</div><div> </div><div>Perhaps it would be appropriate to either boost the skillup rate or make the avoidance formula more forgiving of the skill to maximum skill ratio for the first handful of levels.</div>

[Fazzamar]

The damage difference between the Dirge level 1 and 2 combat arts and their upgrades 8 levels later is alittle off...<img src="http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1738/dirgecas9zj.jpg"><div></div>

[Captain_Xpendab]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>StaAk wrote:<div>As a fighter class, it seems like the defensive skills (defense, parry, deflection) increase waaaay too slow compared to the speed you gain levels. I found myself at level 4 with 0.0% in base/parry avoidance simply because my skills were still at 10-12.</div><div> </div><div>Perhaps it would be appropriate to either boost the skillup rate or make the avoidance formula more forgiving of the skill to maximum skill ratio for the first handful of levels.</div><hr></blockquote><div>I rolled a Dirge and got the same impression, skill-ups coming much to slow in the first few levels.</div><div> </div><div>Personally, I think offense and defense skills should max out automatically when you level until you hit level 3 or 4.  </div>

[troodon311]

<div></div><div>I looked for a thread like this but couldn't find one, so I posted in the Overlord thread.  Whoops :smileyhappy:  Here's what I had to say about spells on the island:</div><div> </div><div>I remade a lowbie guardian of mine and tried him out to see what the new island is like. </div><div><p>Levels 1 and 3 you get Swing and Taunt respectively and at level 4 you get your stances, these seem reasonable.  At level 2 you get Shield Bash, at level 3 you get Hold the Line, and at level 6 you get Intervene.  Shield Bash is useless for a newbie, because you start out with a 2-handed weapon and there are no easily obtained 1-handed weapons that I could find on the island.  Hold the Line is also not very useful to a true newbie, who will almost certainly not be grouping and probably wouldn't even understand the spell description; ditto for Intervene. </p><p>I suggest tweaking with the fighter CAs to make them more sensible for a newbie.  I think Kick would work better at level 3, and you could move Shield Bash to level 6 where at least by that time the player might have gotten the Shield that the Overseer drops.  Hold the Line and Intervene should be moved out of the level 1-6 line-up, maybe switch area taunt with Hold the Line.  I'm not sure what to replace Intervene with.</p></div>

[Borre]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>I think the re-use timers on the monk abilities were a bit too long.  I would barely get to use them once per fight.  Never even had a chance of running out of power.<hr></blockquote>Definitely agree with this.  I'm only level 3 right now, but if I get a 2-pull even at the same level, I'm generally screwed because maybe Forward Strike recycles once, and Cold Fist definitely hasn't.  Woe be if the mobs are 1 level higher.  I don't mind it being harder, but it definitely seems a little unbalanced right now.  I'm still a relative newbie as well, and this would definitely be a turn off to a real newbie (I'm testing, so I deal with it, but it would definitely turn me off it it was on the live servers).</span></div>

[QuaiCon]

Wizard nukes were doing too much damage when i created a new wiz yesterday. i was oneshoting nearly anything at start. but it seems like they have been lowerd now, but that makes it really hard now at ~lvl 5/6. it is nearly impossible to get to the treehouse with the fights lasting that long and using much power now and the fast repops.<div></div>

[Sedden]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fazzamar wrote:The damage difference between the Dirge level 1 and 2 combat arts and their upgrades 8 levels later is alittle off...<img src="http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/1738/dirgecas9zj.jpg"><div></div><hr></blockquote>at least you see some kind of change in your upgrades the rangers lvl 1 and its lvl 8 upgrade is nothing. The damage is exactly the same along with the resistances but the lvl 8 upgrade costs more power.......

[froglockpalad]

<div></div><div>i have seen some disparity between plate tanks and aviodance tanks aproaching 10+ plate tanks tend to tank poorly due to no plate for them at 10 and avoidance tanks i have seen have around 70% avoidance at 10+ that seems a bit much at that lvl.</div><p>Message Edited by froglockpaladin on <span class="date_text">01-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:40 PM</span></p>

[Sorentio]

<div>Just took a wizard from 1-7.  Level 1 was ok.  At level 2 I received a decent stun/nuke that could one-shot the level 2 enemies sometimes and made level 3 and 4 pretty easy.  After that there were no nuke upgrades until level 7, so by the time I reached level 5 and 6 I couldn't do very much damage and often ran out of health/power before I could finish a fight against any mob even or any cluster of mobs that were one or even two levels lower.  Once I got the new nuke at level 7 everything was easy again.  This could use a much smoother progression.</div>

[Magu]

Tried to take a troubador to level 4 earlier today, couldn't even get through 3... autoattack damage was doing 1 damage when i hit, very very rarely doing 2, which won't even beat the regen on a mob.The recast time on the level 1 attack is horribly long, making it useless.<div></div>

[Dastin]

<div>I am a bit concerned with the new heals for Defilers, taking life from the caster makes them ineffective healers.   I have only been able to heal one time during a fight, because healing any more than that would have killed me.  It also causes a problem for people who solo and people in groups who get attacked while trying to heal a groupmate.</div>

[Ariaya]

I ran a mystic through level 8 on Test over a couple of days. The Runic shield that we get, IMO, is a bit overpowered. If I was only attacking one mob, white or lower, they would hardly ever manage to do enough damage to eat through the regenerating ward. I'd make the ward for 4 points instead of 6. With mobs doing 2 points per hit on many shots that'll still give the mystic a good advantage.I loved having slow at level 1, but I'm still missing any DoTs or single-target wards. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I miss my wards and DoTs, they're critical to the way my level 50 mystic plays and I think that the low level mystics should get a shot at it too.Early levels as a mystic are a bit rough with our low dps and low power, it's just not possible to nuke a mob down and still have enough power in case you need to heal.

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Dastin wrote:<div>I am a bit concerned with the new heals for Defilers, taking life from the caster makes them ineffective healers.   I have only been able to heal one time during a fight, because healing any more than that would have killed me.  It also causes a problem for people who solo and people in groups who get attacked while trying to heal a groupmate.</div><hr></blockquote>There's nothing new about defiler heals taking health, they've done that since LU13.</span><div></div>

[Kessia189]

They took health before LU#13 too, Sacrificial Aid was the first in the line to do that if i remember right.<div></div>

[scl]

The Coercer's level 1 Mez becomes useless at about level 4. Everything you fight at that level keeps resisting it. On the very few times it does land it usually only lasts a couple of seconds. The power drain ability at level 2 seems a little overpowered. I can drain <u>all</u> the power from an enemy within a second. Also, the power siphon at level 3 (i think) doesn't give much power back to the Coercer. In fact, I'm not entirely sure it works at all - I'll have to have another look at that.

[froglockpalad]

<div></div>alot of the low lvl heals are way too power unefficent to even use the gain vs the power consumtion its much better to just use the nuke then heal your self or another.

[Galn]

<div>Last night I tried a Monk, Shadowknight and Necromancer. I didnt go very high in level with each but could see some definate differences between them and the original fighters and Mages i've taken through the IoR a bazillion times on the live servers. The Monk was fairly well balanced through level 3, but recast times on the combat arts meant I rarely ever used them more than once per combat. The same thing with the Shadowknight, Even with his nuke and combat art he was spending more time waiting for CA's to reset than anything. The Necro ran out of power after sending his lvl 1 pet against a level 2 turtle, but the bat pet never took more than one hit dmg the entire battle and often healed it before getting hit again for 1 point of damage. There is no way the two warriors could have taken on that turtle at level 1. I seemed to miss more attacks than I connected with the 2 fighter types I tested. This would be frustrating for a newbie and not reflective of the later levels, my characters on live rarely miss. This may be a factor of the attack skills (slashing, crushing etc) not going up like they should though.</div>

[ranger1]

<div></div>It doesn't really make to much sense why Gaurdians get the "Shield Bash" skill at level 2 when they start off with a 2 handed weapon?  I think I only saw 1 shield on the island and it was a drop that a level 7 was using.   I think another skill would be helpful at that level.  Maybe the 2 handed slash skill instead.

[ranger1]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Borreny wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>I think the re-use timers on the monk abilities were a bit too long.  I would barely get to use them once per fight.  Never even had a chance of running out of power.<hr></blockquote>Definitely agree with this.  I'm only level 3 right now, but if I get a 2-pull even at the same level, I'm generally screwed because maybe Forward Strike recycles once, and Cold Fist definitely hasn't.  Woe be if the mobs are 1 level higher.  I don't mind it being harder, but it definitely seems a little unbalanced right now.  I'm still a relative newbie as well, and this would definitely be a turn off to a real newbie (I'm testing, so I deal with it, but it would definitely turn me off it it was on the live servers).</span></div><hr></blockquote>Ive played 4 different classes and I would have to say that all the re-use timmers seem too long. 

[ranger1]

<div></div><p>Ive also noticed that race choice plays a much bigger part in the lower levels.  I tried both a human and Barb paly and noticed a significant differance between the 2.   Bards had a much eaiser time tanking and dishing out the damage while my human almost got his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] handed to him by stuff of the same levels.  Im sure later on when there are more items with bonuses and the racial traits are picked things will even out but for now, WOW. </p><p> </p><p>BTW, Im not saying that I disagree with it. I think that Barbs should tank and do more damage. Im just saying that before, I didnt really notice it as much. </p>

[Fuzzey]

<div></div><p>From what I understand, your spells are supposed to scale down with you when you mentor someone. I noticed as a level 10 necromancer I have a pet at level 1 (this isn't confirmed because the changes appeared after I leveled him up to 10), a pet at level 10, and one coming at level 12. When I mentor a level 8, my level 10 pet doesn't scale down. It vanishes completely and I am unable to recast it while mentoring. Thus I'm forced to use my level 1 pet to attempt mobs 7 levels higher than the spell is made for. My poor batty gets chewed up like a jerky treat HA HA HA <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>'Tis but a game....'tis only a game....ah ha....ah ha....ah ha.... <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[schrammy]

<div></div><p>the level2 pet heal for the necromancer is too harsh on the player.</p><p>The player has to be at full health, or the life transfer to pet will kill it. And because there are no lifetaps yet, the necro never gets a chance to recover.</p><p> </p><p>On the other hand the lvl 1 pet seems a bit too strong for the newbie isle.</p><p>It had no problem tanking 2 even cons (and a 3th add after 1 was down) while i burned them down.</p><p> </p><p>Mana seems to be used up too quiickly as well (maybe i got spoiled cuz i got used to lich <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[schrammy]

<div></div><p>also its waay offbase compared to the conj lvl2 heal (or do we stop comparing now <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</p><p> </p><p><img src="http://www.eqsummoners.com/eq2/new-spells/new-nec/heal-minion.jpg"><img src="http://www.eqsummoners.com/eq2/new-spells/new-conj/heal-servant.jpg"></p><p>The conjurer heals pet for 12 hitpoints and 9 mana cost.</p><p>The necromancer has to heal the pet for 12 hitpoints using 34 of its own HP</p>

[WascalWabb]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Kessia189 wrote:They took health before LU#13 too, Sacrificial Aid was the first in the line to do that if i remember right.<hr></blockquote>I think the cost of the spells need to be looked at though. The level 1 heal costs 12 health and 12 power for a 7-8hp heal which I think is a tad on the expensive side <span>:smileywink:</span>. The 2nd line of heals hadn't quite as bad a cost/heal ratio iirc but still takes a very big chuck on your hp at the level you are given it.</span></div>

[Chefren]

I don't play on test, but though of the case of the dirge rez using the ministration skill. My skill level was 99 I think back from my sub-20 days but if you roll a dirge now you'll have no ministration-using spells at all before the rez. That leaves you at a skill of what...10? when you get the spell. That seems a bit off, same goes for our aoe interrupt using the subjugation skill.<div></div>

[Nanite]

<div><div>I started a fury on test tonight (having leveled one to 60, felt that would be the best thing I could do to compare), and I gotta say I don't feel very furyous <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Instead of giving us a dot at level 2, give us a dd spell for 10-15 damage or so, sorta like a mini strike of thunder (call it static electricity <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ). Also the 5-6 hp heal we start with is kinda pathetic considering we get a 24+ hp heal a couple levels later. Maybe boost that to 10-12 hp. Damage shield is ok at 1 base damage, the dot could use a bit of a boost if you keep it, 2 hp every 3 secs is pretty weak, even for a level 2 spell. Smite used to be better dps then that.....</div><div> </div><div>Will post more if I get a chance to play him again tomorrow as atm I'm only level 5.</div></div>