Conjurors need it

[Cowdenic]

<DIV>A nerf. </DIV> <DIV>Their damage is crazy compared to where they are supposed to be, not to mention the best survivability when they solo.</DIV> <DIV>This class is completely overpowered and needs a HUGE Nerf.</DIV> <DIV>Remember strive for balance.</DIV>

[Xecr]

Ummm, what exactly are you referring to? How is our damage, "crazy"? Remember, according to SOE's, "Vision", Mages are suppose to be #1 in the dps department. Within the Mage class, Conjurors are suppose to be #2 on who can dish out the most dps with Wizards/Warlocks being #1.Has far as survivability goes, well of course, sik our pet on a mob, and we run like crazy. The only way you can nerf that is to take away our pets, and I really don't think that's going to happen. I really don't think it's an issue either. Even with that trick up my sleeve, I still die fairly often. Especially now that I'm doing the last few quests in the peacock series. When I'm done with that series, I'm never stepping foot back in Silent City ever again, unless the mobs are all grey to me!Xec

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xecros wrote:<BR>Ummm, what exactly are you referring to? How is our damage, "crazy"? Remember, according to SOE's, "Vision", Mages are suppose to be #1 in the dps department. Within the Mage class, Conjurors are suppose to be #2 on who can dish out the most dps with Wizards/Warlocks being #1.<BR><BR>Has far as survivability goes, well of course, sik our pet on a mob, and we run like crazy. The only way you can nerf that is to take away our pets, and I really don't think that's going to happen. I really don't think it's an issue either. Even with that trick up my sleeve, I still die fairly often. Especially now that I'm doing the last few quests in the peacock series. When I'm done with that series, I'm never stepping foot back in Silent City ever again, unless the mobs are all grey to me!<BR><BR>Xec<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>against what are you dieing? Soloing even con heroics, or epics?</DIV>

[sdb98]

ok nobody needs nerfed if you thinks conjurers are overpowered watch me play i die almost five times a day and it isnt vs epics or even con heroics when my pet gets unlucky or a heal fizzles or one of a hundred things happen like geting jumped from behind by agro mobs and not being able to pull them off fast enough or pulling them and getting killed by the dots voras 46 conjurer test <div></div>

[Xecr]

<blockquote><hr>Cowdenicus wrote:<BLOCKQUOTE><HR>Xecros wrote:Ummm, what exactly are you referring to? How is our damage, "crazy"? Remember, according to SOE's, "Vision", Mages are suppose to be #1 in the dps department. Within the Mage class, Conjurors are suppose to be #2 on who can dish out the most dps with Wizards/Warlocks being #1.Has far as survivability goes, well of course, sik our pet on a mob, and we run like crazy. The only way you can nerf that is to take away our pets, and I really don't think that's going to happen. I really don't think it's an issue either. Even with that trick up my sleeve, I still die fairly often. Especially now that I'm doing the last few quests in the peacock series. When I'm done with that series, I'm never stepping foot back in Silent City ever again, unless the mobs are all grey to me!Xec<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>against what are you dieing? Soloing even con heroics, or epics?<hr></blockquote>I die when I engage a green con, group herioc encounter, and get a, group heroic add(any color). When I engage solo encounters, and get an add, it's usually not an issue. I can usually withstand 2 or 3 adds before I start considering the option to run. (any color solo cons, besides orange or red)I've never been successfull at solo'ing any group herioc mob less than 5 levels below me. 5 levels or more, I can do it.Post LU13, I've never been able to solo any level epic mob. Last time i tried, I was level 57, and the epic mob was level 42. Had him down to half health before I died. Now that I'm 60 and have quite a few more Adept 3's, i'm going back to try again has it's part of a heritage quest.Xec<p>Message Edited by Xecros on <span class=date_text>12-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:31 PM</span>

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Cowdenicus wrote:<div>A nerf. </div> <div>Their damage is crazy compared to where they are supposed to be, not to mention the best survivability when they solo.</div> <div>This class is completely overpowered and needs a HUGE Nerf.</div> <div>Remember strive for balance.</div><hr></blockquote>Our pets have zero mitigation. Mobs punch right through them. If we didn't have the high damage, we would be dead on even solo mobs.</span><div></div>

[Mat]

<P>BAH! STOP BOTHERING EVERY CLASS THAT I AM PLAYING PLS!! ;p<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Matek on <span class=date_text>12-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:17 PM</span>

[Vicio]

<P>What kind of jerkoff asks for a class to be nerfed? Esp one that doesn't need it. Have you ever seen a Warlock or Wiz root nuke heroic names? I can do that, but only with heroics <EM>at least </EM>5 levels below me. I tend to go after named mobs that are the full 10 levels below me.</P>

[trysta]

Conjurors don't need a nerf. They are the one class where mostly everyone agrees that they are where they should be. Now the other mage classes, they should be upgraded to equal the ability of the conjuror. Also, you can't compare things like templars and conjurors. If your templar can't match up to a conjuror, it's pretty obvious why. They are two separate archetypes, and comparisons between the two are useless. Never, ever ask for nerfs. It's just plain rude. <div></div>

[DantesInfer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <DIV>A nerf. </DIV> <DIV>Their damage is crazy compared to where they are supposed to be, not to mention the best survivability when they solo.</DIV> <DIV>This class is completely overpowered and needs a HUGE Nerf.</DIV> <DIV>Remember strive for balance.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Our damage is crazy? Compared to what?! I want numbers, proof, comparisons. </P> <P>How about this...instead of asking for a NERF, make the case for your class to be corrected. Be constructive, provides suggestions. Posting a cry for a nerf only serves to make you look the part of a <STRONG>fool</STRONG>. </P>

[WAPCE]

<blockquote><hr>trystaad wrote:Conjurors don't need a nerf. They are the one class where mostly everyone agrees that they are where they should be. Now the other mage classes, they should be upgraded to equal the ability of the conjuror. Also, you can't compare things like templars and conjurors. If your templar can't match up to a conjuror, it's pretty obvious why. They are two separate archetypes, and comparisons between the two are useless. Never, ever ask for nerfs. It's just plain rude. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Unfortunately, the upward spiral that this presents is very bad for balance and ultimately counter-productive. Moorguard commented on it just <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=spells&message.id=2350#M2350" target=_blank>a few days ago</a>. Whether a tier 2 damage class should be consistently doing 1K DPS is something that should probably be left to the designers to decide, though.

[Ekuthh]

<P>A nerf?  You're asking for a nerf, simply because you have a bee in your bonnet about your own class?</P> <P>Try actually *playing* a pet class and then come here and complain about our "uber" damage and soloing abilities.</P> <P>Summoner is one of the hardest classes I've ever played.  I *dare* you to try a pet class- we have to deal with pet management, agro control, healing ourselves and our pets, offensive and defensive stances, rooting, DOTs and we have no real direct damage to speak of.  And if our "uber" pet dies (which happens often, believe me) we have to run like hell because we cant wear anything with a decent mitigation.</P> <P>I'm lucky if I can kill a solo mob the same level as I am, non heroic, and I've got Adept III pets and spells.</P> <P>Nerf us... nerf this! :smileywink:</P>

[Magebane]

<DIV>He's a troll, don't feed him.</DIV>

[Ekuthh]

<P>Yeah I know... :smileymad:</P> <P>Sometimes they just... get to me...</P>

[Calthine]

looks like someone decided to Troll while Raijin is out.  BAD TROLL. <p>Message Edited by Calthine on <span class=date_text>12-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:20 AM</span>

[Femur]

<DIV>Honestly, last night i looked over at my wife's screen (she's a 35 conj.) and was very impressed at what she was soloing.  The thing is that it wasn't easy for her to do it, she was working like mad and (to me) relying on a certain amount of luck to pull it off.  This wasn't the result of her uberness but a result of her learning the proper way to play her character in a solo instance.  As a 40 pally I couldn't dream of killing what she was killing, but I WOULD NOT EXPECT to be able to.  It's a completely different class.  I wouldn't expect her to be able to get wholoped on the way I can and I most certainly wouldn't expect to be able to do the damage she can.  That, my ignorant friend, is what the entire concept of different classes is all about.  If you are so jelous of the abilities of a conj. then just go roll one yourself, don't cry and whine because you can't do what every other class can.  Learn to enjoy the benefits and skills of your own class and enjoy having other, well played, classes in groups with you.  An ill played conj will not be very successful, a well played one will be very successful.  But then again, isn't that true of any class?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A nerf is not in order here, a change of your attitude and maturity is... :smileymad:</DIV>

[DantesInfer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Femurus wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>A nerf is not in order here, a change of your attitude and maturity is... :smileymad:</STRONG></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>HEAR, HEAR!!</DIV>

[Lilj]

<P>Aww, be nice to him, it's christmas :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>He has been yelling about Templars since LU 13 and has been crying for nerfs on several other classes since. Especially the furies he has hit hard, and lately druids in general, now it seems he has decided to hit on conjurers.</P> <DIV>Give him some more time, and I'm sure he will get around to us all in time. Will be fun to see him want to nerf guardians damage :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Styk]

<P>Cowdencius [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] are you whining about now? all i see in your post is " waaaaaa m0mmy my t3mplar isn't l33t ubar hea13r mommy waaaaa why do3s th@t conjuror get to have fun whil3 i cant waaaaaaa" </P> <P> </P> <P>WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? If you dont like your class fine, don't try and get other classes penalized due to your grief.... People like you ruin games like this, cry like little girls when they dont get what they want and spite other people because of it...</P> <P>Cry babies man i swear </P>

[KBern]

<P>He must have parsed some fights where a conjurer did more DPS than his warlock, or he tried to beat a mob he saw a conjurer kill and he couldnt.</P> <P>Must be rough not knowing how to play.</P> <P>I think Cowdenicus is latin for Bull [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. </P> <p>Message Edited by KBern on <span class=date_text>12-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:45 PM</span>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sdb9844 wrote:<BR>ok nobody needs nerfed if you thinks conjurers are overpowered watch me play i die almost five times a day and it isnt vs epics or even con heroics when my pet gets unlucky or a heal fizzles or one of a hundred things happen like geting jumped from behind by agro mobs and not being able to pull them off fast enough or pulling them and getting killed by the dots<BR><BR>voras 46 conjurer test<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You are being waaay to modest.  You die a whole lot more than 5 times a day  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the OP...Heeeres yer sign.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sunrayn, 54 guard--Test</DIV>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Liljna wrote:<BR> <P>Aww, be nice to him, it's christmas :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>He has been yelling about Templars since LU 13 and has been crying for nerfs on several other classes since. Especially the furies he has hit hard, and lately druids in general, now it seems he has decided to hit on conjurers.</P> <DIV>Give him some more time, and I'm sure he will get around to us all in time. Will be fun to see him want to nerf guardians damage :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>IMO Tanks need a boost not a nerf.

[snipes]

<P>conjuerers in my guild solo heroic ^^^ mobs all the time, along with wizs/warlocks. For the most part these are mobs higher lvl than them by 1-2 lvls. However as an assassin I cant solo ^^^ heroics that are 5-6 lvls below me without using assassinate which is one mob every 15 mins.</P> <P>also conjuerers are supposed to be tier 2 dps ,  wiz and warlocks were tier 1. so however said mages were tier 1 that is wrong only certain classes are not the whole "mage " . Assassins and rangers are supposed to be above them as dps goes.</P> <P>they have the whole tier thing screwed up , I hope they do some work in it and fix some issues.</P> <P> </P> <P>Daedan</P> <P>60 assassin</P>

[sharz]

nuke them! <span>:smileytongue:</span> <div></div>

[Triste-Lune]

Cowdenicus let me introduce you to Wasuna.... Wasuna please meet Cowdenicus....

[Master71]

A conjuror pet doesn't have any mitigation, and is the key to conjuror survavibility, so a conjuror need to have enought DPS to kill before the pet die.So in order to fix the templar, please remove their ability to wear anything more thant a mage dress, and make their heal only efficient on a naked player, with these improvements, they will be equal to conjuror, relying exclusively on their classe defining abilities to do what they want.<p>Message Edited by Master71 on <span class=date_text>12-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:59 PM</span>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Master71 wrote:<BR>A conjuror pet doesn't have any mitigation, and is the key to conjuror survavibility, so a conjuror need to have enought DPS to kill before the pet die.<BR>So in order to fix the templar, please remove their ability to wear anything more thant a mage dress, and make their heal only efficient on a naked player, with these improvements, they will be equal to conjuror, relying exclusively on their classe defining abilities to do what they want. <P>Message Edited by Master71 on <SPAN class=date_text>12-30-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:59 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>With the exception that a Templar has 80 DPS maybe as good as 120 if the moons and stars are aligned correctly, completely unlike a Conjurors regularaly parsed 1500 - 1800 dps. pet included of course.

[Master71]

<blockquote><hr>Cowdenicus wrote:<BR>With the exception that a Templar has 80 DPS maybe as good as 120 if the moons and stars are aligned correctly, completely unlike a Conjurors regularaly parsed 1500 - 1800 dps. pet included of course. <hr></blockquote>So you're complaining that conjuror is a DPS and Templar a healer class?Maybe you should move to an other class if you don't want to heal but DPS.Perharps one day my conjuror will be able to deal 1800 DPS, with full fabled gear and master spells, and maybe, one day, you'll stop using your old loved T1 cudgel and use your offensive spells in order to deal DPS ('Consecrated Strike', 'Judging Smite' and 'Blaze of Faith', 3 DD T6 which deals more than 250DPS by themselves, and you also got 'Warring Conviction' which add to your DPS, a DoT, still T6...).So, I stop feeding this troll.You've proven to be unconstructive, and obviously, unfair.

[NightGod473]

Whoa whoa whoa...waaaaait a minute here.Templars have low DPS?OMG! NERF EVERY CLASS DOWN TO THEIR LEVEL!!!Or...you know...stop playing a healer if you want to nuke. There's a reason I played a cleric for 4 years in EQLive and haven't played a healing class since then, across 5 different MMOs. I could solo some crazy stuff as a cleric in EQ, but I couldn't do it quickly, and it certainly wasn't pretty. No thanks, I'd rather go to quickly and pretty (with the added bonus of truly messy deaths) and play a DPS class.<div></div>

[Mabes]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Master71 wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR><BR>With the exception that a Templar has 80 DPS maybe as good as 120 if the moons and stars are aligned correctly, completely unlike a Conjurors regularaly parsed 1500 - 1800 dps. pet included of course. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>So you're complaining that conjuror is a DPS and Templar a healer class?<BR>Maybe you should move to an other class if you don't want to heal but DPS.<BR><BR>Perharps one day my conjuror will be able to deal 1800 DPS, with full fabled gear and master spells, and maybe, one day, you'll stop using your old loved T1 cudgel and use your offensive spells in order to deal DPS ('Consecrated Strike', 'Judging Smite' and 'Blaze of Faith', 3 DD T6 which deals more than 250DPS by themselves, and you also got 'Warring Conviction' which add to your DPS, a DoT, still T6...).<BR><BR>So, I stop feeding this troll.<BR>You've proven to be unconstructive, and obviously, unfair.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Not that this thread needs any more fuel to the flames, but you don't know what you're talking about, those spells don't do that much DPS (dmg per second), but rather do that much damage, so after casting time do considerably less DPS.  Templars have abysmal dps, worst of all classes.</P> <P>But no, i see no need to nerf conjurors, and ignore the troll that started this idiotic thread<BR></P>

[Mat]

Check the Topic poster's posts. He has been whining here and there and I BET he is enjoying seeing ppl arguing over his senseless topic. Seriously if SOE is stupid enough to listen to the bud-brained guy's complaint, it is time for me to jump to another ship. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Neld]

Sorry random thought, we should start a flame thread in non-game play forums were we can all just rip on each other and argue for fun are we allowed? becuase that would be loads of fun <div></div>

[Bowz]

<P>let's see, where to start?</P> <P>first off, comparing a conj dps to a cleric (with numbers that could only be extremes of 1 fight, not constant long time parses) is idiotic</P> <P>I play a conj among many other classes.  I do notice that I can do some nice dmg, HOWEVER it is not a constant.  Our DD nukes are pathetic (fire pet hits harder than we do).  Our dmg from dots takes a LONG time to get the full effect.  Our recast times on most of our 'dps' spells like swarm pets, dumbfire pet, aoe dots all have at least a 45 sec recast.  So if in a group killing mobs in about 15-20 seconds, the conj will do far less dps than any DD or scout class, period.</P> <P>Not to mention that if and when a conj has all of his spells able to be cast and the fight lasts long enough for the dots to expire, the conj pet and most likely the conj himself will have aggro and/or die.</P> <P>Conj are a nice solo class.  A temp is not meant to be a solo class (albeit they still can kill some stuff by themselves) they are a support class.  Have you ever seen how long it takes a conj to kill a heroic mob?  I have seen a conj solo an epic mob close to their lvl before and it was not pretty.  They have about a 10pct chance to live, the fight takes a long time, and they would get more exp killing solo mobs in large quantities than killing that 1 heroic mob (this has been discussed several times on these boards about any class soloing a heroic mob post update).  So it is possible for some classes, but not efficient.</P> <P>Take time to play the class you are whining about and learn for yourself, or at the very least please post some parses (that are not just fight by fight but long duration) with actual data comparing conj to another class that is considered DPS, not a priest class.</P> <P>Lastly, the lvl of the player, their skill at playing that class, their gear, and the quality of their spells factor in quite a bit to any class played (dps, tank, priest).  So just because you saw a well skilled, equiped player do something you can't, don't complain.</P>

[N2de]

Your a F***Ing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]!

[xxArcane]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote: <P><BR>With the exception that a Templar has 80 DPS maybe as good as 120 if the moons and stars are aligned correctly, completely unlike a Conjurors regularaly parsed 1500 - 1800 dps. pet included of course.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>1500-1800 DPS? Lol, dude what planet are you living on?  If it wasn't obvious this guy was trolling before, it sure is now.</DIV>

[cheerupbrian]

You want classes nerfed, Why? because you can't play your class well and want every other class hamstrunged so they match your inept skills? <div></div>

[Ultimega2]

 Conjurers shouldn't be nerfed because, again, the pet has no mitigation...It's people like you that made it so guardians have "balanced" health pools and monks had the highest.  If I remember right, we used to have the highest health in game...so all "balancing" period sucks.

[spath]

<div></div>According to your sig I can see you have many months of experience playing a Conjuror. Go to the templar forums and whine about heals, thanks.<div></div><p>Message Edited by spath on <span class=date_text>01-01-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:44 AM</span>

[steelbadger]

<DIV>now now.  Lets not get bogged down in a flamefest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My first character was a conjuror.  I have also played an assassin, a couple of the fighter types and also have a very low level priest on the way.  It has to be said that conjurors are <EM>a lot</EM> more effective soloers than any other classes i have played.  Sure the dd is hardly worth mentioning but the flexability of conjurors is second to none.  Every time a nerf is called for there is an outcry from the people who play said class.  Conjurors are happy with their position at the moment, not because they think that their class is perfect, but because it has almost no problems when compared to many others.  I do believe that conjurors are overpowered in PvE (PvP is an entirely different matter).  I humbly request that people look at the balancing issue from a detached stand point.  Ok i accept that we don't want our pets nerfed but you have to admit that we ARE overpowered.  We almost count as a mini-self-contained-group.  We can deal with group encounters.  Priest types can also achieve this, but it takes a lot longer (and i mean a lot).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Example:  me and two friends grouped up to do a quest.  a mystic, a paladin and me, a conjuror.  I was two or three levels below the other two, going into a non scaling solo zone.  I finished it long long before the paladin, who in turn finished it long before the mystic.  My assassin would have had extreme trouble with the groups.  Conjurors are good at soloing large groups of mobs (even small groups of heroics).  No other class can reliably do this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That would be ok too.  If we weren't also very good in groups.  You say that conjurors have trouble with aggro when they can go full on in groups.  As every class will.  My assassin, despite dps qualms of my classmates, always has to wait for quite some time before using any sneak attacks.  Healers, obviously.  It is all part of being a DPS machine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If other classes where to be brought in line with conjurors then it would result in every class being able to solo heroics.  Forgive me for being naive but i thought that heroics were for groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People complain that this game is too easy.  Yet still they only call for buffs.  Never nerfs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a conjuror i can say that my life is infinitely easier than that of most other classes.  Personally i think that the classes should meet in the middle somewhere.  Not that one class should be nerfed or the other buffed, but that we conjurors need to be taken down a notch and the other brought up a notch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IMO</DIV>

[Beebl]

<P>I play both a Conjuror and Templar (both lvl 60). My main is my Conjuror but I also can play my templar if we are short on healers on raids or someone needs help completing a quest. From my experiance, yes conjurors are great DPS but we are not to uber. Templars are a healer class, not DPS. They should never have the DPS of a conjuror, ever. It is not there role.</P> <P>Conjurors are not a perfect class but if played right we are very good at what we do, deal damage. On raids we have to watch aggro like everyone else, the problems we have though is our pet can take aggro and when he dies in 2 hits from an epic x4 who do you think gets killed next? The conjuror. Templars have the same problem but not as much. Our DPS is very good BUT on raids mob AEs take out or pet pretty quick and we have to recast them, rebuff and send them in. That is not something we can do quick, and that can take away from our DPS. </P> <P>Now all this talk about is different in groups then on a raid. In groups we can take a few hits until the tank gets aggro back. If soloing we can use our super crappy pet heal (or fabled Living Tombs staff.. cant remember the name) to heal for 40% every 15 min. Where a templar  can mitigation some of the damage from there heavy armor and heal themself. </P> <P>Can they both solo? Sure, but the templar will take longer to kill the mob then a conjuror... why? Conjurors are a DPS class, templars are not. Plan and simple, both have different roles. Now if you want to complain about Conjurors vs necros or templars vs inquisitors then i can understand that. But to compain about a DPS class doing more damage then a healer class is just silly.</P>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Beebles wrote:<BR> <P>I play both a Conjuror and Templar (both lvl 60). My main is my Conjuror but I also can play my templar if we are short on healers on raids or someone needs help completing a quest. From my experiance, yes conjurors are great DPS but we are not to uber. Templars are a healer class, not DPS. They should never have the DPS of a conjuror, ever. It is not there role.</P> <P>Conjurors are not a perfect class but if played right we are very good at what we do, deal damage. On raids we have to watch aggro like everyone else, the problems we have though is our pet can take aggro and when he dies in 2 hits from an epic x4 who do you think gets killed next? The conjuror. Templars have the same problem but not as much. Our DPS is very good BUT on raids mob AEs take out or pet pretty quick and we have to recast them, rebuff and send them in. That is not something we can do quick, and that can take away from our DPS. </P> <P>Now all this talk about is different in groups then on a raid. In groups we can take a few hits until the tank gets aggro back. If soloing we can use our super crappy pet heal (or fabled Living Tombs staff.. cant remember the name) to heal for 40% every 15 min. Where a templar  can mitigation some of the damage from there heavy armor and heal themself. </P> <P>Can they both solo? Sure, but the templar will take longer to kill the mob then a conjuror... why? Conjurors are a DPS class, templars are not. Plan and simple, both have different roles. Now if you want to complain about Conjurors vs necros or templars vs inquisitors then i can understand that. But to compain about a DPS class doing more damage then a healer class is just silly.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually Beebles, My comparison is Conjuror vs. Warlock, everybody else assumed I was talking about my Templar.  When a tier 2 DPS class regularaly out damages a Tier 1 DPS class, there is a problem.</P> <P>Respect to you Beebles.</P> <P>Xlrate</P>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Master71 wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR><BR>With the exception that a Templar has 80 DPS maybe as good as 120 if the moons and stars are aligned correctly, completely unlike a Conjurors regularaly parsed 1500 - 1800 dps. pet included of course. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>So you're complaining that conjuror is a DPS and Templar a healer class?<BR>Maybe you should move to an other class if you don't want to heal but DPS.<BR><BR>Perharps one day my conjuror will be able to deal 1800 DPS, with full fabled gear and master spells, and maybe, one day, you'll stop using your old loved T1 cudgel and use your offensive spells in order to deal DPS ('Consecrated Strike', 'Judging Smite' and 'Blaze of Faith', 3 DD T6 which deals more than 250DPS by themselves, and you also got 'Warring Conviction' which add to your DPS, a DoT, still T6...).<BR><BR>So, I stop feeding this troll.<BR>You've proven to be unconstructive, and obviously, unfair.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No my comparison was for vs. Warlock, you all assumed it was for Templar. </P> <P>I stated the facts for Templar because last time I checked the only class I have where I would really start grouping is my Warlock and my Templar.</P>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No my comparison was for vs. Warlock, you all assumed it was for Templar. </P> <P>I stated the facts for Templar because last time I checked the only class I have where I would really start grouping is my Warlock and my Templar.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Show me one post in this thread where you even mention conjuror vs. warlock.  Your whole whine was based on conjurors doing more dps than your templar.</P> <P>Again, heeeres yer sign.<BR></P>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>No my comparison was for vs. Warlock, you all assumed it was for Templar. </P> <P>I stated the facts for Templar because last time I checked the only class I have where I would really start grouping is my Warlock and my Templar.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Show me one post in this thread where you even mention conjuror vs. warlock.  Your whole whine was based on conjurors doing more dps than your templar.</P> <P>Again, heeeres yer sign.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Neg, one of your conjuror friends started talking about stripping my toon of armor (which only my templar wears) and taking away most of my ability to heal (which only my Templar does). So I responded to that post specifically. Look for it. </P> <P>Warlocks are supposedly tier 1 DPS. There are only 3 other classes in that tier, Wizard, Ranger and Assassin. Conjuror is supposed to be Tier 3 (or 2 with dps pet). A Conjuror should not be able to out DPS a Warlock in really any situation. </P> <P>Now my Warlock may not be that well equipped seeing as how 3 of his DD Nukes are Adept 3's only (the rest are Master 1 or better) but that does not make up for the fact that Conjurors are out dpsing him and that is wrong.</P>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Master71 wrote:<BR>A conjuror pet doesn't have any mitigation, and is the key to conjuror survavibility, so a conjuror need to have enought DPS to kill before the pet die.<BR>So in order to fix the templar, please remove their ability to wear anything more thant a mage dress, and make their heal only efficient on a naked player, with these improvements, they will be equal to conjuror, relying exclusively on their classe defining abilities to do what they want. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>With the exception that a Templar has 80 DPS maybe as good as 120 if the moons and stars are aligned correctly, completely unlike a Conjurors regularaly parsed 1500 - 1800 dps. pet included of course. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I was parsing 120 damage against solo blue targets at level 52...with common handcrafted gear and Adept I spells.  I'm unsure what parse program you're using, or how you're only pulling in 80 DPS right now, Cowdenicus.  Then again, this has been brought up time and again on the Templar forums...but it doesn't meet the agenda you want to push, so it might make sense to disregard the true facts of the case.</P> <P>Then again, I do note you haven't mentioned how much healing you're able to push out.  We're not a DPS class...or really even an HPS class (though our HPS is considerable).  We're a control healer with the ability to help pull even mediocre groups through challenging content.  We don't make the group, we make the group better.</P> <P>  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Master71 wrote:<BR>A conjuror pet doesn't have any mitigation, and is the key to conjuror survavibility, so a conjuror need to have enought DPS to kill before the pet die.<BR>So in order to fix the templar, please remove their ability to wear anything more thant a mage dress, and make their heal only efficient on a naked player, with these improvements, they will be equal to conjuror, relying exclusively on their classe defining abilities to do what they want. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>With the exception that a Templar has 80 DPS maybe as good as 120 if the moons and stars are aligned correctly, completely unlike a Conjurors regularaly parsed 1500 - 1800 dps. pet included of course. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I was parsing 120 damage against solo blue targets at level 52...with common handcrafted gear and Adept I spells.  I'm unsure what parse program you're using, or how you're only pulling in 80 DPS right now, Cowdenicus.  Then again, this has been brought up time and again on the Templar forums...but it doesn't meet the agenda you want to push, so it might make sense to disregard the true facts of the case.</P> <P>Then again, I do note you haven't mentioned how much healing you're able to push out.  We're not a DPS class...or really even an HPS class (though our HPS is considerable).  We're a control healer with the ability to help pull even mediocre groups through challenging content.  We don't make the group, we make the group better.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Not that this is about Templars vs Conjurors, it is not, this is in regards to Warlocks vs. Conjurors but I will bit Kendricke.</P> <P>How many raid mobs can you control?</P>

[Tanit]

Wow. I'm agreeing with Cowdenicus O.o <div></div>

[Flor]

<P>I play both a conjurer and an inquisitor so very familar with the DPS output.  Although I could solo my inquisitor, I choose not to.  I would rather jab a sharp stick in my eyeball.   Soloing would be slow and very painful for me.  My inquisitor has a certain function and that is to group and assist my groupmates.  I get crazy experience with my inquisitor.  Pickup groups, guild groups are easy to create and the only thing holding me back from leveling even faster is my rested bonus.  Do I expect to solo with my inquisitor and do massive DPS?  Nope.  Not my function and I've learned to live with it.  I'm a supporting character and I'm just fine with that.</P> <P>My conjurer is very efficient at soloing and that is what I choose to do with this character.   Atlhough the experience isn't as good as when I group, I am very satisified.   Managing my pet, my DPS is a constant balancing act and I can die very easily.  I don't consider myself "overpowered."  The class feels just right to me.  Make one mistake and you are a dead conjurer.  Certainly not uber by any means.  </P> <P>I'm not sure what the purpose of you coming here to gripe about a class and squeal for a nerf.  If you are unhapppy with your class, roll another one.   Each class has a function and you shouldn't be overly concerned about what one class gets and you don't.  Each class has a function and I've learned to live with it.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[kenji]

<P>good luck Floria with your inquisitor doing the peacock / prismatic 2.0 quest alone =)</P>

[Dsaint]

<P>There are many wizards and warlocks out there that out dps conjurers, one of the main factors is whether the mob is resisting any of your spells; if they are, then there is your lower dps!  You have to realize that mobs will have high resistance to certain types of spells.  So many factors in what gives a warlock a lower dps.  You should probably check out the warlock threads and see how the other warlocks are enjoying their class.  It just may be that you have to change some tactics on using your class, for once you do, you will start producing the dps that you are so lacking.  Good luck!</P> <P> </P> <P>Komeo</P> <P>Lvl 60 Conjurer</P> <P>Lords of Chaos</P> <P>Neriak</P>

[Flor]

<P>^^^</P> <P>But you misread my post.  I don't expect to do much stuff solo.  I've been frustrated in the past and I've learned to move on.  I really don't like solo quests with my inquisitor all that much.  I wish that SOE made certain <U><STRONG>VERY IMPORTANT</STRONG> </U>quests non solo but that is not the case.  If I have to solo with my inquisitor, I usually shudder and move on.   I <STRONG><U>hate</U></STRONG> soloing with my inquisitor.  Some people manage to solo just fine and love soloing with their templar/inquisitor.  My hat is off to those patient people.</P> <P>I guess the difference is that I've realized the learned to cope with the limitations of my class.  I just don't believe in coming to the forums to call for a nerf of another class.   It's really not necessary.</P> <P> </P>

[kenji]

i never said nerf to *any class* in all my posts / replies, i only want my templar DPS up, decreasing others dps wont help templar better. =)

[Flor]

<DIV>Kenjiso, I'm  directing my remarks at the OP who started this thread and not you.   (unless you are the OP under a different name  :smileyhappy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  I just don't see why it is necessary to complain about other classes and compare them to the the DPS of a healing class.    It is like comparing apples and oranges.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please don't get me wrong, I would absolutely love to be better at soloing with my inquisitor.  I wish our DPS was better.  As I've stated, it just isn't right to go calling for nerfs of other classes because they can do more damage or solo better.  In every game I've played, I've always had the expectation that healers can not outdamage or solo better than other classes.  EQ2 doesn't seen any different.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, this wasn't directed at you.</DIV>

[kenji]

<P>well...the op said comparing warlock to conj. not temp to conj, (i really dont care 1 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</P> <P>but imo, in every game i've played, i never seen a shaman/druid healing as well as cleric while they have better things (nukes/dots/debuffs/buffs/speed buff/haste/slow etc etc) , EQ2 surprised me. really.</P>

[Xecr]

<blockquote><hr>Cowdenicus wrote:Warlocks are supposedly tier 1 DPS. There are only 3 other classes in that tier, Wizard, Ranger and Assassin. Conjuror is supposed to be Tier 3 (or 2 with dps pet). A Conjuror should not be able to out DPS a Warlock in really any situation.Now my Warlock may not be that well equipped seeing as how 3 of his DD Nukes are Adept 3's only (the rest are Master 1 or better) but that does not make up for the fact that Conjurors are out dpsing him and that is wrong.<hr></blockquote>Ummm, where are you getting your information?? Last I heard, which was before LU13, Wizards, has you've stated, are suppose to be number one on the dps scale, and Conjuror's are suppose to be number two on the dps scale.I've never heard a redname refer to the dps scale in tiers.Provide a link please, to a red name that says conjurors are behind rangers and assassins in dps, and/or to a red name that refers to tiers when identifying dps classes.Xec

[trysta]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Xecros wrote:<blockquote><hr>Cowdenicus wrote:Warlocks are supposedly tier 1 DPS. There are only 3 other classes in that tier, Wizard, Ranger and Assassin. Conjuror is supposed to be Tier 3 (or 2 with dps pet). A Conjuror should not be able to out DPS a Warlock in really any situation.Now my Warlock may not be that well equipped seeing as how 3 of his DD Nukes are Adept 3's only (the rest are Master 1 or better) but that does not make up for the fact that Conjurors are out dpsing him and that is wrong.<hr></blockquote>Ummm, where are you getting your information?? Last I heard, which was before LU13, Wizards, has you've stated, are suppose to be number one on the dps scale, and Conjuror's are suppose to be number two on the dps scale.I've never heard a redname refer to the dps scale in tiers.Provide a link please, to a red name that says conjurors are behind rangers and assassins in dps, and/or to a red name that refers to tiers when identifying dps classes.Xec<hr></blockquote></span>Couldn't find the original post, but this is back from whenever the Combat Update (#13) was just beginning to be implemented<a href="http://eq2vault.ign.com/View.php?view=asksoe.Detail&category_select_id=43" target="_blank">http://eq2vault.ign.com/View.php?view=asksoe.Detail&category_select_id=43</a>This interview is completely true and how players have been judging their actual damage based on the intent of the developers. If you'll notice, right beneath the tier setup, Moorguard does say that under certain circumstances some classes should be able to break free of their designated tiers. I will agree that Conjurors do tend to do this on a regular basis, but it is by no means a call for a nerf. <div></div>

[Fortai]

<DIV>Conjurers do not do more DPS than warlocks against grouped mobs, I've tested this.  Yes, it is possible against single targets, but Wizards are the single target DPS masters, not Warlocks.  And the DPS tier can slightly vary, depending on the situation, look at the above post ^^^</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A nerf is not needed.  Again, look at the above post for a link to what Moorgard said, and read it carefully before you troll.  Instead of calling for a nerf, why don't you focus on giving ideas on how to make your class better?  Wouldn't you rather make the game more fun for yourself and for others, instead of making it less fun for just others?  It's exactly that kind of "I am suffering, so you should to" nerf caller mentality that no-one likes.  :smileymad:</DIV><p>Message Edited by liquidsol on <span class=date_text>01-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:31 PM</span>

[Xecr]

Ahhhh, yes, i remember that now....thank you for the link.What I had done was glossed over any mention of non-finger wagglers has I was only interested in my dps vs. a wizard/warlock and just put in my mind, wizard/warlock #1, conjuror/necro #2.Xec

[Sevm]

<DIV>I raid daily with necros, conjurers, wizzies, and at least one warlock (all LVL 60 with mostly master spells or A3s).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>DPS breaks down like this:</DIV> <DIV>Single targets and Named Bosses:  Necro, Conj, wizard, warlock.   (wizzies should be first imho)</DIV> <DIV>2-3 targets:  Necro, Con, Warlock, Wizard (Warlock or Wiz should be first imho)</DIV> <DIV>3 or more targets:  Warlock, Necro, Conj, Wizard (again Wizards should be second).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Summoners are #2 DPS in our raids (behind rangers) which is WAY too high for all the utiliity they have.  Wizards are 5th or 6th which is way too low.  Anyways, im a warlock and think i deserve to do more dmg on 2-3 targets and possibly equal on single targets with a necro/conj. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thought I would add my information because we raid Daily (7 days a week) and i parse this daily (all T6 raids, lvl 60 people, lvl 60-68 mobs).  I have several weeks worth of DPS per class per mobs and raid zones if you want more specific information.</DIV>

[Mat]

<DIV>Summoners do not have high DPS. Our pets do. Summoners themselves have very low DPS. </DIV> <DIV>Thats is also because the summoner you have seen has a ADPIII~ pet and attack stance spells, atop of that, DPS pets are suppose to deal DPS.</DIV> <DIV>Try looking at some soloing summoners. You will notice that Wizzies and WLKs could burn down the same mob much faster and without trouble.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tanit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Matek wrote:<div>Summoners do not have high DPS. Our pets do. Summoners themselves have very low DPS. </div> <div>Thats is also because the summoner you have seen has a ADPIII~ pet and attack stance spells, atop of that, <font color="#ffffcc">DPS pets are suppose to deal DPS.</font><font color="#ffff66">Yes, but not as much as sorcerers and predators.</font></div> <div>Try looking at some soloing summoners. You will notice that Wizzies and WLKs could burn down the same mob much faster and without trouble.</div> <div><font color="#ffff66">Classes are balanced for groups, not solo. How summoners solo is irrelevant, although they can do it very well.</font></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[quetzaqotl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kenjiso wrote:<BR> <P><STRONG>good luck Floria with your inquisitor doing the peacock / prismatic 2.0 quest alone =)</STRONG></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Lol just had to laugh at this yeah gl on soloing the godking, geez you dont even have to do the whole peacock quest to get your prism/manastone 2.0 oh am I saying too much now?!</DIV> <DIV>Ah lol you need a raid guild to finish the prism 2.0 if you cant group with guildies well then your guild sucks.</DIV> <DIV>And on topic I have a conj too and he rocks seen wizards and warlocks solo stuff much faster tho hitting for over 1 k regularly at around lvl 45 while my highest hit is around 600.</DIV> <DIV>And in raids its not the conj who comes at #1 think some people need to learn to do dmg or maybe not go mental over data which is highly situational.</DIV> <DIV>every class has its power and weaknesses if you cant look outside the box... well heh im not surprised at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by quetzaqotl on <span class=date_text>01-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:45 AM</span>

[kenji]

u got a raid group to do all steps for your quest? how nice is your guild =)

[quetzaqotl]

<P>No kenji I have f r i e n d s in my guild and do quests together with em and yeah you can skip all the peacock quests as long as you have the time for a garden party quest you dont need to finish the peacock quests for your plazmatictron v. 2.0</P> <P>But yeah some things for the peacock quests are on timers and are vewry hard to do like killing mob x mob x mob etc in 10 mins I have helped a guildie zerker finish up hers.</P> <P> </P>

[Generic123]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> <HR> Matek wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Try looking at some soloing summoners. You will notice that Wizzies and WLKs could burn down the same mob much faster and without trouble.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV><BR><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>Wizards solo well, but they do not do it particularly quickly. <SPAN> </SPAN>Most of a Wizards damage comes in the form of DoT’s which they can’t use solo because it breaks the roots they depend on for survival.<SPAN>  </SPAN>While a Wizards larger DD spells can look impressive their DPS isn’t great in practice, they recharge to slowly to offer good sustained DPS and they take to long to cast to offer good burst DPS.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Conjurers on the other hand can pull out a tank pet, then cast full out with their personal spells.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></P></DIV>

[Mat]

<P></P> <HR> <SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>Wizards solo well, but they do not do it particularly quickly. <SPAN> </SPAN>Most of a Wizards damage comes in the form of DoT’s which they can’t use solo because it breaks the roots they depend on for survival.<SPAN>  </SPAN>While a Wizards larger DD spells can look impressive their DPS isn’t great in practice, they recharge to slowly to offer good sustained DPS and they take to long to cast to offer good burst DPS.<SPAN>  </SPAN><STRONG>Conjurers on the other hand can pull out a tank pet, then cast full out with their personal spells.</STRONG> </FONT></FONT></FONT> <HR> </SPAN> <P>Exactly. Sending out a tank pet which has low DPS (in exchange with high DEF) and doesnt taunt really much, yet the mob may not attack the caster. Reason is easy: We have low DPS, even lower than our pets. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[kenji]

<DIV>the turret pets is the real dps for soloing right? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Matek wrote:<div></div> <p></p> <hr> <span><font color="#ffffff"><font size="2"><font face="Arial">Wizards solo well, but they do not do it particularly quickly. <span> </span>Most of a Wizards damage comes in the form of DoT’s which they can’t use solo because it breaks the roots they depend on for survival.<span>  </span>While a Wizards larger DD spells can look impressive their DPS isn’t great in practice, they recharge to slowly to offer good sustained DPS and they take to long to cast to offer good burst DPS.<span>  </span><strong>Conjurers on the other hand can pull out a tank pet, then cast full out with their personal spells.</strong> </font></font></font> <hr> </span> <p>Exactly. Sending out a tank pet which has low DPS (in exchange with high DEF) and doesnt taunt really much, yet the mob may not attack the caster. Reason is easy: We have low DPS, even lower than our pets. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>Heh, I have seen conjurer (lvl 60) pull aggro from his scout pet in a single target encounter. I can (lvl 29 conjurer) also pull aggro from my tank pet with single targets if I start nuking as soon as it hits for the first time. My pet is a3 and I have a3 def stance, my nukes are app4 to adept1 and gear is handcrafted + some treasured. So I could do it easily with upgraded skills.</span><div></div>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Generic123 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff><FONT size=2><FONT face=Arial>Conjurers on the other hand can pull out a tank pet, then cast full out with their personal spells.</FONT></FONT></FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Oh, you mean spells like these:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Shattered Earth 95-116 damage every second for 5 seconds, 40 second recast time</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or the conjuror DoT,  207 instant damage 46 damage every 4.1 seconds for 25 seconds with an 8 second recast</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or maybe this nuke 162-219 at app1, granted it does have only a 3 second recast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or what about the only other nuke a conjuror has 221- 270 with a 30 sec recast.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or 130-159 damage encounter nuke with the 9 second recast app1</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Must be this one, the granddaddy of conjuror nukes, 235-704 damage point blank area nuke with a 20 second recast adept 1</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Single target swarm 45 second duration, 45 second recast (can be killed by mob)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Encounter swarm (fire pet) 25 second duration, 25 second recast (can be killed by mob)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sounds like uber damage worthy of at least a 25 warlock huh?  Actually, its the spell line-up of my conjuror alt, level 45</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*edit* added the temp swarm pets, damage not listed on the examine.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Sunrayn on <span class=date_text>01-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:24 AM</span>

[Jaso]

<span><blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Matek wrote:<div></div> <p></p> <hr> <span><font color="#ffffff"><font size="2"><font face="Arial">Wizards solo well, but they do not do it particularly quickly. <span> </span>Most of a Wizards damage comes in the form of DoT’s which they can’t use solo because it breaks the roots they depend on for survival.<span>  </span>While a Wizards larger DD spells can look impressive their DPS isn’t great in practice, they recharge to slowly to offer good sustained DPS and they take to long to cast to offer good burst DPS.<span>  </span><strong>Conjurers on the other hand can pull out a tank pet, then cast full out with their personal spells.</strong> </font></font></font> <hr> </span> <p>Exactly. Sending out a tank pet which has low DPS (in exchange with high DEF) and doesnt taunt really much, yet the mob may not attack the caster. Reason is easy: We have low DPS, even lower than our pets. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>Heh, I have seen conjurer (lvl 60) pull aggro from his scout pet in a single target encounter. I can (lvl 29 conjurer) also pull aggro from my tank pet with single targets if I start nuking as soon as it hits for the first time. My pet is a3 and I have a3 def stance, my nukes are app4 to adept1 and gear is handcrafted + some treasured. So I could do it easily with upgraded skills.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>The reason its easy to pull aggro off pets isn't because the damage is overpowered, its because the pets taunt is very poor.  And yes, if a Conjurer uses every spell at his disposal in a fight, his damage will be immense.  However, he'll then have to wait 45 seconds before fighting the next mob, which is a very poor way to get xp. and if you average out the dps over an entire session of grinding, it will be far, far lower than the peak. Also, in reply to the guy who said conjurers in his guild can kill heroic encounters of a higher level than him, I find it unlikely that your average conjurer, of any level, could attack an average higher level heroic group with even a hope of surviving, let alone winning.  Trying to balance the class based on what a lvl 60 Conjurer with master 1's and the best gear he can get his hands on isn't really a good idea.</span><div></div>

[liveja]

<DIV>I don't know about needing a "nerf", but my 27th level Conjuror alt is so brain-dead easy to play, it's almost insulting, so I don't play him very much anymore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I feel kinda sorry for people who think Summoners are "difficult".</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[DantesInfer]

<DIV>Finally Cowdenicus has been banned. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Smeegill]

<P>OP has started a thread just down from this one ranting abouthis other character the templar.</P> <P>Dude, your a loose bag of nuts to say the least.</P> <P>You created a Templar and Warlock because for over 1 year they were the best in their fields to say the least.  The Warlock was way way way out dpsing every single class hands down.  Many of the mage classes had broken pets that didnt work, or spells that weren't working properly.  But you were so happy that your 2 classes were great.</P> <P>Now your not #1 healer or #1 Mage DPS class and your screaming for other classes to have skills and abilities taken away.</P> <P>Can't really think of anything to say that wouldn't get the expletive edite so go ahead and think of somthing for me to insult yourself with.</P> <P>Learn to play your toons and have fun with them, or go play WOW or something and find a new game to whine about.</P> <P>Fizbiz 60 Conjuror Everfrost</P> <P> </P>

[Generic123]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> <HR> Generic123 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Conjurers on the other hand can pull out a tank pet, then cast full out with their personal spells.</FONT></SPAN></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Oh, you mean spells like these:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Shattered Earth 95-116 damage every second for 5 seconds, 40 second recast time</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Or the conjuror DoT,  207 instant damage 46 damage every 4.1 seconds for 25 seconds with an 8 second recast</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Or maybe this nuke 162-219 at app1, granted it does have only a 3 second recast.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Or what about the only other nuke a conjuror has 221- 270 with a 30 sec recast.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Or 130-159 damage encounter nuke with the 9 second recast app1</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Must be this one, the granddaddy of conjuror nukes, 235-704 damage point blank area nuke with a 20 second recast adept 1</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Single target swarm 45 second duration, 45 second recast (can be killed by mob)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Encounter swarm (fire pet) 25 second duration, 25 second recast (can be killed by mob)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Sounds like uber damage worthy of at least a 25 warlock huh?  Actually, its the spell line-up of my conjuror alt, level 45</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>*edit* added the temp swarm pets, damage not listed on the examine.</FONT></DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Message Edited by Sunrayn on <SPAN class=date_text>01-05-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:24 AM</SPAN><BR></FONT></P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>At you level a soloing Wizard is getting their damage from a single spell, Ball of Flames, because everything else breaks roots to quickly. <SPAN> </SPAN>At Adept III it averages 1100 points of damage every 12 seconds for a whopping 90 DPS.<SPAN>  </SPAN>You can surpass this with your level 20 Splitpaw spell alone.</FONT></P></DIV>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Generic123 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>At you level a soloing Wizard is getting their damage from a single spell, Ball of Flames, because everything else breaks roots to quickly. <SPAN> </SPAN>At Adept III it averages 1100 points of damage every 12 seconds for a whopping 90 DPS.<SPAN>  </SPAN>You can surpass this with your level 20 Splitpaw spell alone.</FONT></P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I dont have the splitpaw spell, so it is irrelevent to me.  And saying conjurors out dps wizards when they use their entire arsenal vs  a wizzie using a single spell?  Cmon...you've got to be kidding me.</DIV>

[Truturi]

Why don't you all stop whining and what not and just play the GAME! It's not real... its a GAME!!!!!!!! Growup <steps off soapbox> <div></div>

[Generic123]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> <HR> Generic123 wrote: <DIV> </DIV><BR> <DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>At you level a soloing Wizard is getting their damage from a single spell, Ball of Flames, because everything else breaks roots to quickly. <SPAN> </SPAN>At Adept III it averages 1100 points of damage every 12 seconds for a whopping 90 DPS.<SPAN>  </SPAN>You can surpass this with your level 20 Splitpaw spell alone.</FONT></P></DIV><BR><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>I dont have the splitpaw spell, so it is irrelevent to me.  And saying conjurors out dps wizards when they use their entire arsenal vs  a wizzie using a single spell?  Cmon...you've got to be kidding me.</FONT></DIV><BR><FONT color=#ffffff size=2></FONT> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Remember we are discussing solo situations.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff size=2>Unless a Wizard want to tank the mob themselves when they solo, prior to level 50 they do in fact primarily use a single spell they may throw in a stun once in a while but that’s it.<SPAN>  </SPAN>As I said previously, most of their other spells are DoT’s which cause their roots to break far faster then they can be replaced.</FONT></P></DIV>

[kenji]

<P>c'mon....my necro can put all spells out w/o scaring the aggro change on caster unless the rat pets down and fully transfered aggro to caster...</P> <P>a wiz chain nuking all spells = tanking, and no roots, and means 2 shots by heroic...</P> <P>ya, my necro can solo heroic, so does conj.</P>

[Master71]

Hey...Yesterday my illusionist kill an high green heroic ^^^ mob...does it need a nerf in DPS too????

[Timaarit]

<span><blockquote>Master71 wrote:Hey...Yesterday my illusionist kill an high green heroic ^^^ mob...does it need a nerf in DPS too????<hr></blockquote>For green-yellow colorblind maybe.</span><div></div>

[TigarrSmellyk]

<div>That statement is a joke.  Conjurers arent near the dps of Wizards or assassins and the moment we get aggro we are dead. Having read your other posts cow i would say you are just a complainer. If something isnt the way you like it it should be changed. Play a conjurer in a group and go tell me we do too much dam. Use a parser that measures pet dam and you will see that we are not the highest dps class in the group.</div><div> </div><div>Gholan  56 conj</div><div>Tygarr 55 Defiler</div><div> </div><div>Torment on the befallen server</div>

[Dyshar]

<div>I agree, summoners are very overpowered atm</div><div> </div><div>My main is a warlock but i also have a necro and a conjuror alt... During raids in my guild the summoners are usually #1 followed by rangers/warlocks/assassins and then wizards in dps. I hate to say that a class needs to be toned down but it is true, summoners do way too much dps for the "utility" (options) they have.  For the time being i guess ill be farming with my summoner alts lol</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>P.S. please fix Dark Infestation and lower wizard/warlock casting times.</div>

[kenji]

<div></div><p>TigarrSmellykat, Please tell me the difference of get aggro and dead between Conjurer and Wizard.Please tell me when pet alives, how aggro transfer to Master.</p><p>I also have a similar class - necro, the aggro split to "3" , 1-me, 2-real pet, 3-rats swarm. while Wiz - 1.the dmg choices for pet, 1-Taunt, 2-magic DPS(fire), 3-melee DPS (rogue).</p><p>so currently, the aggro goes lower on conjurer if their pet alive, the dmg choices more for conjurer, and actually can have a taunter while u doing all the dps.</p>

[Fortai]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dyshar wrote:<div>I agree, summoners are very overpowered atm</div><div> </div><div>My main is a warlock but i also have a necro and a conjuror alt... During raids in my guild the summoners are usually #1 followed by rangers/warlocks/assassins and then wizards in dps. I hate to say that a class needs to be toned down but it is true, summoners do way too much dps for the "utility" (options) they have.  For the time being i guess ill be farming with my summoner alts lol</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>P.S. please fix Dark Infestation and lower wizard/warlock casting times.</div><hr></blockquote>What are the levels of your alts?  Are they 60 like your warlock?  I have a 50 Wizard and a 53 conjurer and my wizard usually out DPSs my Conj.

[Lacandor]

My 54 Conjuror has all Adept IIIs on pets, Master II on pet offensive stance, and Adept IIIs on damage spell (except Word of Force, the Splitpaw spell). I was grouped with a Berzerker and Warlock who were at my level. The Warlock would consistently outdamage myself (inluding pet damage) on every fight, casting only a 3 or 4 times. I would cast  6 or so times per fight.  Warlock was always 200 - 400 more total damage. I don't pay attention to DPS, I just want to know total damage.<div></div>

[kenji]

<div></div><p>short fight = best for burst.</p><p>long fight = best for stable dot.</p>

[Asif]

<div></div><div>Man people i am a 55lvl Conjuror and i group with a wizzie 56 and a warlock 55 most of the time in our guild we have about the same amount of Adept3;s each and nite after nite they do more damage and me not by lots but enough to notice the differance</div><div> </div><div>I just get all the complaining here its just getting so old <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>And we each know how to play our charcters i just feel most of the people here dont know what the heck they are talking about  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[AdamWest007]

<div></div><p>"each and nite after nite they do more damage and me <u>not by lots but enough to notice the differance"</u></p><p> </p><p>The difference btw tier 1 (wiz/war) vs. tier 2 (conj) dps should be huge.  You should not even be in the same league as them.  They are, after all, a different <em>tier</em> than you.  Different tiers are supposed to be step changes.  Inside the same tier are supposed to be the subtle differences you are referring to.</p><p>Every Conj on these boards, the honest ones at least, basically have the same response: "I do (slightly) less dps than wiz/war/assas/ran, so leave me alone...".  Get serious guys.  Based on your current utility (your pets are at least tier 2 tanks atm), you should be doing waaaaay less dps.</p><p>Either tier 2 tanking ability with tier 3 dps ability, or vice versa.  Wiz/War are tier 1 dps ability with tier 0 tanking ability...</p>

[Bowz]

<div></div><div></div><p>wow, have you even played a conj adamwest007?  our pets are tier2 tanks?</p><p>this is great news, if our pets are t2 tanks and I can tank better than my pets, that should me me a t1 tank right?</p><p>"get serious"  - most of us are, you should try it as well and do some research.</p><p>Our pets have 0 mitigation, that's right a whopping zero.  Our heals land for about 321 (think ad3 is around 500) and have a long recast and slow cast time.  I find that any mob I go against, I can last longer than my pet cause although I only have 1200 mit, it is a whole lot better than none.</p><p>Yes we can stifle a mob for 8 sec, and stun them for 5, and wait a minute on those refresh timers, but if we don't kill a mob in 13 sec, then our pet is going to die.  Our tank pet has a large amount of hp and can hold aggro on single mobs fairly well, but with not mitigation he drops fast.  If we use our fire pet, he gets 1 shotted almost every time he gets aggro.  If we use air, he might take 2 hits before going down if you are lucky.</p><p>I don't know where you got the idea that our pets were tanks, cause you can ask any conj if they think of any of their pets (including fighter) as a tank and they will just laugh at you.</p><p>Post combat revamp, our role changed from sicking pet and trying to do enough dps before going out of mana, to trying to stun/stifle the mob at the right time to survive an encounter.</p><p>Ever try to aoe clumps of mobs with a pet?  If tanks can't keep aggro from our aoe's, our pets certainly can't.  We end up dieing unless they have lots of them with triple down arrows or double down arrows.</p><p>"the difference btw tier 1 (wiz/war) vs. tier 2 (conj) dps should be huge" -</p><p>hate to break it to ya, but even the dev who posted the info on tiers stated that classes with appropriate spells and stances could shift up or down a tier.  Hence, conj moving close to but not surpassing t1 wiz/war dps.</p><p>Get used to the fact that different tiers blend together and are not strictly defined dps structures.  I have seen monks jump ahead of scouts on the dps tier system, but they are in off stance with ad3/master spells.  This example falls in what the dev said would occur in that type of situation.</p><p>If you are upset that someone who invests lots of time and pp into getting the correct gear and playing their class well and that they can 'almost' do as much dmg as you, you should just make a different toon and quit whining.</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Bowzam on <span class="date_text">01-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:50 PM</span></p>

[kenji]

<div></div><p>AFAIK, even same tier (Tier 5), Templar with Master 1 (bottom of T5) cant out dps Fury App4 or even App1.(top of T5)</p><p>whats your point again? =)</p><p> </p>

[liveja]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>Bowzam wrote:</p><p>Ever try to aoe clumps of mobs with a pet?  If tanks can't keep aggro from our aoe's, our pets certainly can't.  We end up dieing unless they have lots of them with triple down arrows or double down arrows.</p><hr></blockquote><p>What level are you? What level are the mobs you're AOEing?</p><p>I suppose it might become impossible at higher levels -- I don't know, since my Conjuror is only 27th level -- but I do this all the time, on groups of 3-4 low green or blue mobs. It's easy: send the pet to attack one, wait until all of them aggro on the pet, then run up behind it, Seism, then while they're picking themselves up, Shattered Ground. Usually, most of them try to aggro on me, but they don't last long with Shattered Ground pounding them.</p><p>If you can find a place with lots of groups like that, & a nice respawn rate, the XP & loot will roll in fairly quickly, even if you're not getting named mobs & stuff. Since they're low green, they can't hurt you badly, & they die quickly, so you don't use a lot of power, & you can kill fast.</p><p>It gets boring quickly tho, once you get it down. & obviously you have to be careful using the Seism line, since it's not encounter locked, but if you pay attention to what's around you, you ought to be OK.</p>

[Dragonz]

<div></div><div></div><p>Don't  know what I hate most  , people whining about their class, or wanting other classes nerfed. I think the whiners/nerfers have only one prob imo. they don't know how to play their toon, and then get jealous of people that can. Now I have toons of different lvls  conj  lvl 60 templar lvl 53 and fury  47 almost. So perhaps I can give a balanced view not a rant and rave.</p><p>Yes conjs are excelent soloers and damm good in group</p><p>Yes templars did get some weird changes done to them  devine buffs/debuff changed to phys. I cannot understand that one but live with it</p><p>Yes furys are prob best solo priests, and good in group</p><p>BUT if you    don't know strengths/weeknesses of your toon. know what to kill and were  don't ask for a nerf/denerf learn to play em properly</p><p>I've seen high lvl conjs get wasted in pof, on mobs i stroll thro, and I have no  50-60 master spells  although many are adept 3</p><p>templars were only ever good soloers against undead and I still can kill even cons, but we not dps so live with it</p><p>furys do seen very powerful imo  but asking for then to be be nerfed is just dammed childish</p><p>We all march to the beat of a different drum.......just try and keep it mellow tho</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Dragonz on <span class="date_text">01-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:37 AM</span></p>

[AdamWest007]

<div></div><p>You are probably correct, I don't know how to play my toon.  And, by corollary, all of the documented parses of wizards consistently getting out dpsed by Conj, then I suppose all those wizards don't know how to play their toon either.</p><p> </p><p>Guys, come on.  Why are roughly 1/3 of all the alts I see running around Conjs?</p><p> </p><p>I grp with a Conj on a regular basis.  We don't bother trying to find a tank...</p><p> </p><p>Methinks Thou Doest Protest Too Much</p><p> </p><p>Anyway, I'm done with you guys.  You all know that you are broke.  Enjoy it while you can.  /inc nerf bat</p>

[Sunrayn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>AdamWest007 wrote:<div></div><p>You all know that you are broke.  </p><hr></blockquote><p>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] straight.  I just tried to solo Lord Everling in Nek Castle for the mask and earring HQ.  My conjuror is lvl 47 with adept3 tank, master2 defensive stance, app4 and adept1 spells.  Everling is a 35^^^ with a couple of 35 henchmen.</p><p>I got my butt handed to me in short order.</p><p>Overpowered? riiiight...</p>

[Pins]

<blockquote><hr>Timaarit wrote:<span><blockquote>Master71 wrote:Hey...Yesterday my illusionist kill an high green heroic ^^^ mob...does it need a nerf in DPS too????<hr></blockquote>For green-yellow colorblind maybe.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Orange too, because well, lets just say there's not a heroic in this game an Illusionist can't take down if mez can land on it.

[Fortai]

<div></div>It's very hard to take a thread seriously that was made just to [Removed for Content] off other players.  It's no wonder you were permanently banned from the forums for that exact reason, Cow.

[kenji]

<div><p>templars were only ever good soloers against undead and I still can kill even cons, but we not dps so live with it</p><p>furys do seen very powerful imo  but asking for then to be be nerfed is just dammed childish.-----------------Templar solo Undeads (double damage!) still slower than Fury (not to mention others lol), and they both do good in any group. wheres the balance <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Fury isnt a DPS class either, so why Templar DPS cant go up ? i never say nerf fury, but i really asked a dps boost for templar <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></div>

[selch]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Yes, conjourers are super weak class and that's why noone is conjourer...</div><div> </div><div>/sarcasm off..</div><div> </div><div>Disagree with all kinds of nerfs. But why more than 30% of server population is pet classes? Well, ofcourse noone will here admit it beside a few brave person. Pet classes are best one man army. Best way of farming.  I use it, everyone use it. That's why every single alt and their cousins and grandmothers are pet classes.</div><div> </div><div>It is so impossible that why 1 of every 3 players uses conjourers, because they love pets?  :smileyvery-happy:</div><p>This is an MMORPG, it is no different than others. Whatever "roxors", people picks it as in the name of "Flavor of the month" (ofcourse till it is overpower toned down)</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">01-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:38 PM</span></p>

[Mat]

<div></div><p>Hints for reason why ppl make summoner alt:</p><p>1. Dungeon revamp</p><p>2. Best Soloer job</p><p>3. $</p>

[Goozman]

<div></div><p>lol. Cow and Bigmak were both banned.</p><p>'nuff said</p>

[selch]

<div></div><div>I find it also funny it is a [Removed for Content] race about DPS between Pet classes and Wizards... Pet classes seems to want both pet tanks and being DPS at same time.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">01-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:10 AM</span></p>

[Mat]

<div></div><p>Yes and our pets can only do what half of what a real player tank, scout, mage do.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Admh]

<div></div><p><font color="#ff0000">CLASS ENVY ALERT!</font></p><p>just upgrade other classes without nerfing conjurors. It doesn't make your class any better if you nerf another class.:smileytongue:</p>

[Anlari]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>selch wrote:<div></div><div>I find it also funny it is a [Removed for Content] race about DPS between Pet classes and Wizards... Pet classes seems to want both pet tanks and being DPS at same time.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by selch on <span class="date_text">01-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:10 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Well as someone who plays both a warlock and a conjurer, I can say right now, my conjurer is not a DPS class.  Nearly all of my damage while soloing comes from dot's since I need my defensive stance on my earth pet.  In groups, mobs are normaly dead before I add much to the damage of the group since most of my damage spells worth casting are dot's.  Our DD spells just plain suck compaired to a sorcerer 15 levels lower then us. </p><p>Now, since they updated the pets, I will say our air pets are very nice, and so our are fire pets if we are fighting groups of smaller mobs, they contribute nearly all my damage, but I can't realy use those pets while soloing.  People like to look at us like we can solo while still doing the damage we do with our non-soloing pets.  IT just doesn't happen.  The only time I realy do compairable damage to my warlock is when it is an epic mob, and thats because my dot's have plenty of time to do their thing, as well as a constant damage output from my pet. </p><p>If they lowered our damage to be under sorcerers in raids, then we would no longer be a viable class for solo or small groups as we would not realy be able to carry our own weight.  That in turn would make most of our defensive spells useless since we only use those while soloing anyways. </p><p>The strength of the conjurer class is not that we can do a lot of damage, it is that we are very adaptable to the groups we join.  We can solo, we can small group agaisnt many foes, or single pwoerful foes, and we can raid.  We adapt, that is our strength.  We do have consiquences and lose certain benefits for each of the different roles we can play though, so we don't get everything at once.</p><p>The appeal of the class is the same as the EQ1 necro.  We are low maintenence with great solo capability.  We are very efficient in mid levels at farming and surviving.  To most players, that is the game to them, so we seem to be the very best choice.  Much like the necros of EQ1 though, later on, I think we will see our usefullness to groups dwindle compaired to what others will be able to bring.  Have to wait and see how the class changes affect everone and see the newer raid zones and how the AA's will affect everyone.</p>

[Sevm]

<div>let me reiterate.  This class needs DPS down-sized!  They are one, if not the best, solo class as most have said.  They also out DPS any sorcerer in T6 raids???   [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]? they are close to rangers/assassins in raid DPS and rarely draw the aggro that sorcerers due because their pets dont have big nukes.  For groups, they can go Offensive and be a top-tier DPS as well or solo they can be Defensive. </div><div> </div><div>I am talking about LVL 60 btw.</div><div> </div><div>A lvl 60 can also <strong>SOLO</strong> LVL50  EPIC x2 Iceberg/Tundra Jack in Everfrost????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????????????? I can post a video here if you want to see it done easily and quick (7 minutes).</div><div> </div><div>No other mage class can do anything like this because of many factors (e.g. not enough power, cant root/mez epics, no tanking pets, cant fight ranged attks, on and on).</div><div> </div><div>Does the class have issues. maybe.  but all classes do.  and all players will post about their class in order to get it improved/not nerfed.  But bring some cold-hard, substantive <strong>facts</strong>.  I can bring in months of T6 raid parse data showing the ridiculous DPS that conjurors are doing and vids of conjurors Soloing Epicx2s. </div><div> </div><div>In summation, I have played A lot of classes and at lvl 60 this class is overpowered from all of the data collected.  The other mage classes NEED the improvements and this class either needs a nerf or increase the other classes considerably.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Gorathh]

Shutting down this thread as it was created to incite the community.<div></div>