Berserkers Rejoice....

[Hor]

<DIV>Finally, after two months of nothing, there is a change for bersekers to look forward to in an update.  That's right, after two months of no issues addressed at all, and basically not even being mentioned in the updates, we get something.  Our Fury line is getting it's damge output reduced by 40 something percent ( 3 targets instead of 5 = 40 % plus a small reduction).  Great news for all of us who were having trouble keeping our toys sharp due to all those pesky extra attacks...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In all seriousness, is any other class getting a +40% reduction to one of their most used and useful abilities?  Evidently the extra attacks were making us way to powerful, in that every three minutes or so when rampage was available, we could charge into a group and lay waste to 'em( what a concept for a Berserker huh?).   Of course this is way to powerful, if we want to do that kind of damage we should find a way to root the MoB then blast it from afar.... that way we wouldn't have to worry about the chance of being stunned and clubbed to death, or riposted to pieces.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, enough whining, time to get to the point, I know there are a lot of unhappy classes out there at the moment, and I truly feel for them.  The Berserker class actually seemed to adjust very well to LU13 as a whole, there were very few major complaints that were strictly class issues( plate tank mitigation and aggro issues concerned all the fighters in some way or another.  This was reflected by the scarcity of negative posts on the Berserke Board.  Myself, I felt that we were a very solid class, and the new AoE aspect of our class actually intrigued me and fit my vision of my Berserk very well.  I don't begrudge the casters their ability to kill things I can't, or expect to be able to compare in any way with their overall damage.  It just seemed like we we're finally becoming the raging slayers we envisioned ourselves as.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe I'm overreacting, but from the recent posts on our boards, I'm not the only one.  I'm sure that I will still enjoy my Berserk no matter what they thow at us, but a blow like this rightfully makes us concerned about our future.  I feel sure that any other class that saw a 40% reduction in the effectiveness of ANY of their abilities, let alone one of their primary ones, would also be a bit concerned.  In my opinion tuning an ability by adjusting it 40% in either direction is akin to straightening pictures with a sledgehammer, it can be done that way, but is it the best way?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I realize that  many of the other classes have issues they regard as more pressing than this, and I have to agree with many of their points, but since I'm a Berserk, I thought I'd express myself( too bad you can't type in blood <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS...  I still haven't seen a reason why Berserkers are the ONLY subclass not to get an Offensive Stance post 50( just in case someone who knows sees this)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lleinen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Horrt wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In all seriousness, is any other class getting a +40% reduction to one of their most used and useful abilities?  Evidently the extra attacks were making us way to powerful, in that every three minutes or so when rampage was available, we could charge into a group and lay waste to 'em( what a concept for a Berserker huh?).   Of course this is way to powerful, if we want to do that kind of damage we should find a way to root the MoB then blast it from afar.... that way we wouldn't have to worry about the chance of being stunned and clubbed to death, or riposted to pieces.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, enough whining, time to get to the point, I know there are a lot of unhappy classes out there at the moment, and I truly feel for them.  The Berserker class actually seemed to adjust very well to LU13 as a whole, there were very few major complaints that were strictly class issues( plate tank mitigation and aggro issues concerned all the fighters in some way or another.  This was reflected by the scarcity of negative posts on the Berserke Board.  Myself, I felt that we were a very solid class, and the new AoE aspect of our class actually intrigued me and fit my vision of my Berserk very well.  I don't begrudge the casters their ability to kill things I can't, or expect to be able to compare in any way with their overall damage.  It just seemed like we we're finally becoming the raging slayers we envisioned ourselves as.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe I'm overreacting, but from the recent posts on our boards, I'm not the only one.  I'm sure that I will still enjoy my Berserk no matter what they thow at us, but a blow like this rightfully makes us concerned about our future.  I feel sure that any other class that saw a 40% reduction in the effectiveness of ANY of their abilities, let alone one of their primary ones, would also be a bit concerned.  In my opinion tuning an ability by adjusting it 40% in either direction is akin to straightening pictures with a sledgehammer, it can be done that way, but is it the best way?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I realize that  many of the other classes have issues they regard as more pressing than this, and I have to agree with many of their points, but since I'm a Berserk, I thought I'd express myself( too bad you can't type in blood <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS...  I still haven't seen a reason why Berserkers are the ONLY subclass not to get an Offensive Stance post 50( just in case someone who knows sees this)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have a berserker friend that is absolutly tickled pink about the new LU16, of course he said they were being nerfed in 1 area, but just beefed in a few other areas and he really cant wait for it.</P> <P>But just to answer your first question about +40% reduction in their most usefull abilities Ill state coercer problems :</P> <P>1. Our nearly 800 power buff was taken away, completely.  Instead an INT/AGI buff that was on another buff, was moved to the original power buff, given around +10 to each stat, and the power was absolutly removed, which is BS, and has many coercers screaming.<BR>2. Upcomming in LU16 we are, so far, going to have our AE mez nerfed from a 45sec duration (this is what set us apart in the CC area) to a 15sec duration with a 10sec recast...thats way more than 40% there.<BR>3. Also in LU16 we are basically losing the ability to solo, if there ever really was one for the coercer with charm being broken, with our roots being nerfed.<BR>4. Our charm doesnt work, has never worked, and I am pretty sure, even with LU16, that it will still not be working. (so much for a class defining ability for a COERCER, one who controls minds)<BR>5. Our stuns no longer stun raid mobs and our stifles no longer stifle raid mobs, which was basically what our use was, but now we have none besides pumping mana to you or others.</P> <P>This isnt a flame, I am just answering your question to that 40% question.   Us, coercers, are down and SoE is still beating us with the nerf bat and we have yet to see any real improvement with our class.   But I think Berserkers are extremely powerful in my opinion, they can deal DPS like a mad man, and tank just nearly as good as a guardian.  This is what I believe, because one of my friends is a 60 berserker, and when its impossible to even kill the guy because he can come back to life with 40% health....and do sick DPS...common....no other class can do this (well besides brusiers, they can FD)<BR></P>

[anaugi]

<P>to answer the first part of your question.. yes, you're not the only class to get something of theirs reduced by 40%... conjuror's are losing an essential spell's effectiveness by 60%... and they are *very* concerned... but alas, no response as to why.</P> <P>It is a pain for all classes to try to lobby their concerns to a limited number of ears.  In the end everyone feels they are not being addressed.  Especially when dev's respond to one class and not another over standing concerns it just exasperates the problem.  I feel for the dev's, they have to fix and solve issues from so many angles at so many times... but that's the name of the game.. you want public relations, you have to provide them.. equally.. for all your clients/users/devotees.  Every class asks for reasons as to why x is being changed to y, but very rarely do you get that reason, it is striking because you know there has to be *a* reason or the change wouldn't be made at all.  Most just want to know what they are, and have an attempt at a say as to where the game is going.   We play the classes, *intensively* day to day... the dev's honestly don't, they think they might, but the amount of people who dedicate their play experience to a class, collectively know more of the nuances than those who do case studies, or watch an individual perform a feat, or play a character of a particular type for a duration.</P> <P>Anyway.. digressing..    ask for reasons for your ability decrease, you *might* get an answer,.. again.. you *probably* won't.</P> <P> </P> <P>Anaugi Oni - Oasis.</P><p>Message Edited by anaugi on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:31 PM</span>

[Naggyba]

Well, quite frankly, Berserkers are not in line with the list that Moorgard provided as to where they belong on the DPS list. Berserkers are putting out as much damage as rogues on a regular basis and as much as predators when they use their rampage every 3 minutes. This on top of being kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] tanks. Berserkers didn't change from pre-CU in that regard when they were supposed to. SO now you STILL have a heavy duty tank doing the same DPS as rogues/predators.

[MyTFlyGuy]

<div></div>(((Edited until I see what the changes do )))<div></div><p>Message Edited by MyTFlyGuy on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:26 PM</span>

[Zhonata]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Naggybait wrote:<BR>Well, quite frankly, Berserkers are not in line with the list that Moorgard provided as to where they belong on the DPS list. Berserkers are putting out as much damage as rogues on a regular basis and as much as predators when they use their rampage every 3 minutes. This on top of being kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] tanks. Berserkers didn't change from pre-CU in that regard when they were supposed to. SO now you STILL have a heavy duty tank doing the same DPS as rogues/predators.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>I love uninformed post and rather smug comments. As usual<STRONG> WRONG.</STRONG> Beserkers damage equal burst. once ever 3 min. i have never outdamaged an assasin or a ranger for that matter at my lvl if they were going all out. For crying out loud assasin get an abilty that can do liek 50k damage and ranger get sniper shot and flurry of arrows. So that is complete BS. So what once every 3 min we can come close to their damage if we are fighting a group con multiple targets. LOL that is hardly a reason to nerf us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just ot clerify that our Unbridle Fury accounts for 10-15% of our over all damage. It has been lowered to only attack 3 targets instead of 5 ( we lose the aggro for the 2 procs lost every fire) those 3 proc do less damage. This effectivly lowers our damage out put by 6% plus what ever they decide to lower the damge by. On top of that our beserker abilties ( Um we are beserkers yet our main procs is being nerfed.....) are going to proc half as much now so we just lost the aggro from that. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Upside opening wounds is now going to do more damage... should make up for some our lost damage. To bad we are going to suck aggro wise till we get to 58 and can actually use the abilty. We will see where this leads, i personally dont see it boading well. Nerfing our T5 offensive stance is kinda ridiculios tho.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW we arnt the only class to get nerf in this aspect. Necros got lich nerfed and a coupel otehr have bruises from the upcoming nerf bat. BUt it is rather funny that a class that has barly been mention for past to patch get a major nerf like this......... if i wanted to play a diffrent character every month i would i dont so get it right and leave it be. AS of right now pre-LU16 i think beserker are fine and should be left be.</DIV>

[Naggyba]

I am far from wrong. I grouped with our guild berserker and did DPS parses for a full day and he did as much damage as I did with me sometimes beating him and him sometimes beating me and the assassin we had grouped.So get off your horse there. I don't make statements like this based on crap I have heard from Joe Blow's friend of a friend of a cousin's sister's friend.I made that statment based on actual grouping with predators, myself being a rogue and our guild berserker.-- berserker 10484 3042 403.2-- assassin 8214 0 315.9-- swashbuckler 6109 0 235.0-- berserker 8243 3336 374.7-- assassin 6762 934 307.4-- swashbuckler 6314 577 287.0-- berserker 18750 5362 986.8-- swashbuckler 7074 0 372.3-- assassin 4715 0 248.2-- berserker 9100 2476 379.2-- swashbuckler 7597 0 316.5-- assassin 7080 0 295.0-- berserker 25814 4495 1434.1-- assassin 6791 0 377.3-- swashbuckler 2601 0 144.5-- assassin 10512 440 457.0-- berserker 7580 3142 329.6-- swashbuckler 5671 600 246.6-- berserker 6854 895 489.6-- assassin 6690 0 477.9-- swashbuckler 4767 0 340.5-- swashbuckler 19975 600 384.1-- berserker 18302 15846 352.0-- assassin 13988 745 269.0

[Zhonata]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Naggybait wrote:<BR>I am far from wrong. I grouped with our guild berserker and did DPS parses for a full day and he did as much damage as I did with me sometimes beating him and him sometimes beating me and the assassin we had grouped.<BR><BR>So get off your horse there. I don't make statements like this based on crap I have heard from Joe Blow's friend of a friend of a cousin's sister's friend.<BR><BR>I made that statment based on actual grouping with predators, myself being a rogue and our guild berserker.<BR><BR><BR>-- berserker 10484 3042 403.2<BR>-- assassin 8214 0 315.9<BR>-- swashbuckler 6109 0 235.0<BR><BR>-- berserker 8243 3336 374.7<BR>-- assassin 6762 934 307.4<BR>-- swashbuckler 6314 577 287.0<BR><BR>-- berserker 18750 5362 986.8<BR>-- swashbuckler 7074 0 372.3<BR>-- assassin 4715 0 248.2<BR><BR>-- berserker 9100 2476 379.2<BR>-- swashbuckler 7597 0 316.5<BR>-- assassin 7080 0 295.0<BR><BR>-- berserker 25814 4495 1434.1<BR>-- assassin 6791 0 377.3<BR>-- swashbuckler 2601 0 144.5<BR><BR>-- assassin 10512 440 457.0<BR>-- berserker 7580 3142 329.6<BR>-- swashbuckler 5671 600 246.6<BR><BR>-- berserker 6854 895 489.6<BR>-- assassin 6690 0 477.9<BR>-- swashbuckler 4767 0 340.5<BR><BR>-- swashbuckler 19975 600 384.1<BR>-- berserker 18302 15846 352.0<BR>-- assassin 13988 745 269.0<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P>First of all it obvious to any beserker that sees those stats they are pics out from several diffrent nonconsecutive fights. Beserker only do that type of damage when they use rampage or opening wounds and only every every every against multiply mob encounters. Against single mob encounter assassin and swashy will completly blow us out of the water.  I group with a 55 assasin, 55 rangers, 55 monk, 54 templar,  and 54 swashy all the time and the only time i have ever gotten close to that kind of damage is against con or lower lvl mobs with rampage. When swashies can use inspired daring, hurricane, and false provado in the same time and compltely blow us away. Rangers have their high damage arrow attack which are completly sick and the get sniper shot and hail of arrows. Same for assasins. So saying that we out damage u guys every time is false so yeah you are Wrong. Those stats are beserkers best case situation. Try running a parser on the giant, sabertooths, or sandfuries. it wont come anywher clsoe to that of the dps classes.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Naggyba]

Whatever dude. Try to discredit anything anyone says contrary to your view but it's reality that can't be ignored. Obviously there is some credit to what I am saying as the Dev team seems to agree and thus the reason for the damage decrease.I never call for the nerf of any class and I still am not. I am jsut posting as to the reasoning of why the change was probably put in place because certain berserkers could not figure out why they were getting nerfed and hollering foul. I would always rather see other classes boosted to compensate but, fact is, berserkers currently do not fit the chart Moorgard posted.<p>Message Edited by Naggybait on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:57 PM</span>

[UrkBloodA]

<P>got to love numbers with nothing behind them.</P> <P>I'd bet that assassin is the kind of assassin who doesn't have any ad3, master1, fabled gear, legendary gear, or a real weapon.  The zerker on the otherhand is likely the type who has pristine imbued cobalt claymore a slew of fabled gear.</P> <P>oh yeah - and I bet that assassin is the kind of player who goes in using default attacks until that 30-60 second re-use timer refreshes.  Ohh - yeah I forgot one other thing - bet that assassin doesn't go out and spend coin on fat poisons either.</P> <P>Assassin - go do your homework and learn to play your profession.  As a fairly decked out WIZARD I get out dps'ed by rangers who know how to play their profession.  ESPECIALLY on short fights where my 3-5 second cast times mean the fight is over before I can land a nuke.</P> <P> </P>

[Frank Sojourner]

<DIV>I take it the zerker in that group was tanking?  If so what was the rest of the group make-up? Have a druid, their dmg. shield procs would count toward the zerker's dps, a wizard? depending on how the parser is set up their dmg. shield procs will count for the zerker.  Zerker's also have 2 arts that proc dmg. when we take dmg.  Take a zerker out of the tanking role and see where their dps stacks up. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Looking at those numbers it also appears you were taking on encounters of multiple mobs and they were going down pretty quickly.  The numbers of the last fight probably show a named encounter, but also show that you had healing in your group so their buffs were probably on the zerker.  Even if you don't have dmg shields on the zerker if you go into a fight, the zerker fires off his AOE attacks and the mobs go down soon after, the zerker is going to have good dps numbers.  That is true even on a single target.  If the zerker is able to land a couple of his higher dmg. arts and gets a proc or 2 and the mob goes down quickly.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also noticed from the numbers that the zerker did a good job of keeping aggro.  That could mean the mobs were going down before the scouts felt comfortable unloading with their big hitters.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just trying to point out that numbers like that without knowing group make-up, CA quality, gear quality, buffs in the group, mobs fought, levels, etc. aren't worth much.</DIV></DIV>

[zit]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zhonata wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Naggybait wrote:<BR>I am far from wrong. I grouped with our guild berserker and did DPS parses for a full day and he did as much damage as I did with me sometimes beating him and him sometimes beating me and the assassin we had grouped.<BR><BR>So get off your horse there. I don't make statements like this based on crap I have heard from Joe Blow's friend of a friend of a cousin's sister's friend.<BR><BR>I made that statment based on actual grouping with predators, myself being a rogue and our guild berserker.<BR><BR><BR>-- berserker 10484 3042 403.2<BR>-- assassin 8214 0 315.9<BR>-- swashbuckler 6109 0 235.0<BR><BR>-- berserker 8243 3336 374.7<BR>-- assassin 6762 934 307.4<BR>-- swashbuckler 6314 577 287.0<BR><BR>-- berserker 18750 5362 986.8<BR>-- swashbuckler 7074 0 372.3<BR>-- assassin 4715 0 248.2<BR><BR>-- berserker 9100 2476 379.2<BR>-- swashbuckler 7597 0 316.5<BR>-- assassin 7080 0 295.0<BR><BR>-- berserker 25814 4495 1434.1<BR>-- assassin 6791 0 377.3<BR>-- swashbuckler 2601 0 144.5<BR><BR>-- assassin 10512 440 457.0<BR>-- berserker 7580 3142 329.6<BR>-- swashbuckler 5671 600 246.6<BR><BR>-- berserker 6854 895 489.6<BR>-- assassin 6690 0 477.9<BR>-- swashbuckler 4767 0 340.5<BR><BR>-- swashbuckler 19975 600 384.1<BR>-- berserker 18302 15846 352.0<BR>-- assassin 13988 745 269.0<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>First of all it obvious to any beserker that sees those stats they are pics out from several diffrent nonconsecutive fights. Beserker only do that type of damage when they use rampage or opening wounds and only every every every against multiply mob encounters. Against single mob encounter assassin and swashy will completly blow us out of the water.  I group with a 55 assasin, 55 rangers, 55 monk, 54 templar,  and 54 swashy all the time and the only time i have ever gotten close to that kind of damage is against con or lower lvl mobs with rampage. When swashies can use inspired daring, hurricane, and false provado in the same time and compltely blow us away. Rangers have their high damage arrow attack which are completly sick and the get sniper shot and hail of arrows. Same for assasins. So saying that we out damage u guys every time is false so yeah you are Wrong.<FONT color=#ccff00> Those stats are beserkers best case situation. Try running a parser on the giant, sabertooths, or sandfuries. it wont come anywher clsoe to that of the dps classes.<BR></FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have not grouped with an assassin or ranger in a normal xp group recently, so i dont know what dps they are able to dish out on a constant basis.</P> <P>The above parsing results for berseker however reflect pretty well the numbers i usually get when grouped with our guild zerkers. Their "normal" dps being at 300+ on single target with spikes much, much higher on group encounter. This while fighting giants and sandfuries for expample, which con mostly yellow to our zerker still.</P> <P>But yes the zerker were tanking, no bard, wizard or similar buffing class in group though usually.</P> <P>Can argue now if this is too high dps or not, in any case it seems not to be limited to best case situation, unless a tanking zerker in general is considered best case situation already.</P> <P>(Btw. best case scenario i have witnessed was a group encounter dying on the first hit of the zerker due to causing a chain proc reaction. Hit, bamm, dead. Comment of the zerker : "That was fast.")</P>

[Zhonata]

<FONT color=#ff9900></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zitha wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zhonata wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Naggybait wrote:<BR>I am far from wrong. I grouped with our guild berserker and did DPS parses for a full day and he did as much damage as I did with me sometimes beating him and him sometimes beating me and the assassin we had grouped.<BR><BR>So get off your horse there. I don't make statements like this based on crap I have heard from Joe Blow's friend of a friend of a cousin's sister's friend.<BR><BR>I made that statment based on actual grouping with predators, myself being a rogue and our guild berserker.<BR><BR><BR>-- berserker 10484 3042 403.2<BR>-- assassin 8214 0 315.9<BR>-- swashbuckler 6109 0 235.0First of all it obvious to any beserker that sees those stats they are pics out from several diffrent nonconsecutive fights. Beserker only do that type of damage when they use rampage or opening wounds and only every every every against multiply mob encounters. Against single mob encounter assassin and swashy will completly blow us out of the water.  I group with a 55 assasin, 55 rangers, 55 monk, 54 templar,  and 54 swashy all the time and the only time i have ever gotten close to that kind of damage is against con or lower lvl mobs with rampage. When swashies can use inspired daring, hurricane, and false provado in the same time and compltely blow us away. Rangers have their high damage arrow attack which are completly sick and the get sniper shot and hail of arrows. Same for assasins. So saying that we out damage u guys every time is false so yeah you are Wrong.<FONT color=#ccff00> Those stats are beserkers best case situation. Try running a parser on the giant, sabertooths, or sandfuries. it wont come anywher clsoe to that of the dps classes.<BR></FONT></BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I have not grouped with an assassin or ranger in a normal xp group recently, so i dont know what dps they are able to dish out on a constant basis.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>If anyone of those classes knew what they were doign and wanted to do they could easly get 500+ dps everytime.</FONT></P> <P>The above parsing results for berseker however reflect pretty well the numbers i usually get when grouped with our guild zerkers. Their "normal" dps being at 300+ on single target with spikes much, much higher on group encounter. This while fighting giants and sandfuries for expample, which con mostly yellow to our zerker still.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>My dps has never been above 300+ w/o using rampage. <STRONG>EVER</STRONG>. even with buffs. and that is going full out max i have ever gotten is like 280 or something on a consistance bases. That was buffed against lower lvl mobs.</FONT></P> <P>But yes the zerker were tanking, no bard, wizard or similar buffing class in group though usually.</P> <P>Can argue now if this is too high dps or not, in any case it seems not to be limited to best case situation, unless a tanking zerker in general is considered best case situation already.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff6600>Tanking zerker yes best case. In offensive mode.</FONT></P> <P>(Btw. best case scenario i have witnessed was a group encounter dying on the first hit of the zerker due to causing a chain proc reaction. Hit, bamm, dead. Comment of the zerker : "That was fast.")</P> <P><FONT color=#ff9900>Yeah and you need to state that they were blue or green vvv,vv group cause i have never ever ever done that to anything other than that. I have all adept 3 except 4 abilties all t6 armor, weapons, and jelwery minus neck. So i dont see how that is possible if it is idffrent than the above stated.</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Finora]

<P>Naggybait, were you grouped with a Illusionist as well? Because they have this ...THING that makes the Beserker aoe attacks even more spectacular in damage. Groups of mobs will just explode into a fine spray of blood... Believe it's called Prismatic Strife...</P> <P>If you were grouped with an illusionist that would throw the damage numbers off terribly. I think it doubles the damage berserker thingies do. (not a beserker nor an illusionist, I just group with one of each very very frequently).</P>

[Fizwi]

The damage done by Prismatic proc line of buffs is attributed to the illusionist, not the target of the buff.  (i.e. the numbers are orange on <b>my </b>screen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )And thank goodness, because otherwise I'd be outdamaged by a barehanded OOM templar.<div></div>

[Junkisfunk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> UrkBloodAxe wrote:<BR> <P>got to love numbers with nothing behind them.</P> <P>I'd bet that assassin is the kind of assassin who doesn't have any ad3, master1, fabled gear, legendary gear, or a real weapon.  The zerker on the otherhand is likely the type who has pristine imbued cobalt claymore a slew of fabled gear.</P> <P>oh yeah - and I bet that assassin is the kind of player who goes in using default attacks until that 30-60 second re-use timer refreshes.  Ohh - yeah I forgot one other thing - bet that assassin doesn't go out and spend coin on fat poisons either.</P> <P>Assassin - go do your homework and learn to play your profession.  As a fairly decked out WIZARD I get out dps'ed by rangers who know how to play their profession.  ESPECIALLY on short fights where my 3-5 second cast times mean the fight is over before I can land a nuke.</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I love it when one topic turns into another topic. :smileyvery-happy: Talk about nothing behind it. Your comments are purely speculative. Maybe you outta teach those assassins how to play, eh? :smileysad:</P> <P>Junk</P>

[Styk]

<P>Lol those numbers mean dank.... Maybe i should have my friend post his 4 hour raid log and show that our guild rangers were putting out 700-1100 dps agianst 62+ epic x4 encounters..... Hmm i bet wizzies and warlocks wouldnt like that... But wait our guild assasin put out and average of 500-700 dps on that raid also.... my best dps in that 4 hour time was 491 dps against moonchild.... </P> <P>But wait maybe i should mention that one of our taunts is getting nerfed in 16, as is 2 of our AE's .... Also did i mention that 60% of our agro generation is thru damage not direct taunt ? </P> <P>So lets see zerker dps nerf = weaker ability to maintain agro .... Gee yeah us zerkers really do need a nerf beacuse someone posted up shady parses that really dont mean dink ..... </P> <P>At least in 16 assasins are getting some luv and guardians are getting thrown a bone.... But us zerkers and Pet classes should just shut our mouth and take it like a man huh ? oh wait can you detect the sarcasm in my response ? i hope so ..... WTG SoE , nerf i mean rebalance as yall would say it is the perfect way to run a game... ( cant wait for the SWG style  class restructure that will happen soon enough in eq2 ) </P>

[Feaw]

<DIV>I still get beserkers in groups who will respond when your looking to add dps  "I AM dps!"    *shrug*</DIV>

[Zhonata]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Styker wrote: <P>But wait maybe i should mention that one of our taunts is getting nerfed in 16, as is 2 of our AE's <FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG><U>.... Also did i mention that 60% of our agro generation is thru damage not direct taunt ? </U></STRONG></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG><U><FONT color=#ffff00>So lets see zerker dps nerf = weaker ability to maintain agro ....</FONT> </U></STRONG></FONT>Gee yeah us zerkers really do need a nerf beacuse someone posted up shady parses that really dont mean dink ..... </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Point and Case. Very well put. </P> <P>That is only half of it another 5-10% can be contributed to the procs we just go nerfed in the exact same patch. <BR></P>

[Mat]

<HR> I still get beserkers in groups who will respond when your looking to add dps  "I AM dps!"    *shrug* <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well technically he was right. Dealing Damage Per Second. Just not as strong as wiz/scouts. :p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Naggyba]

This was just one particular instance during 20 minutes of fighting gx2 group mobs in Clefts. At the time, it was the zerker, me, assassin, cleric and not sure of the makeup of the other 2. It's been awhile. Zerker was tanking in offensive stance. Usually the makeup of the groups varied a lot because we just grabbed what 6 guildies were on. Sometimes illusionist or bard or coercer for mana regen and whatever else for last spot.This was just one period of about 20 min. This however was the case when doing giants, sandfuries and so on. Yes, pretty much always grouped mobs as they gave better XP.As I said, I never posted this before. Never posted or /feedbacked asking for nerf or anything because it was to our benefit to have our zerkers doing a lot of damage but, when people start complaining about being nerfed and saying their damage was already low enough... All I know was our zerker, on a regular basis could do as much DPS as the rogues and still out tank the other classes in our guild, with same armor as the other tanks. This did not fit Moorgard's scale of combat updates.No, you were getting nerfed LONG before I ever even posted here. LONG before I even posted a parse of 20 minutes of fighting. The nerf had already been put in the patch notes and on test before I ever even thought about posting anything here in this topic.As a tank class, I disagree totally with nerfing your taunt abilities. They need to make them better. They need to go back to unresisted taunts.<p>Message Edited by Naggybait on <span class=date_text>11-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:38 PM</span>

[Zhonata]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Naggybait wrote:<BR>This was just one particular instance during 20 minutes of fighting gx2 group mobs in Clefts. At the time, it was the zerker, me, assassin, cleric and not sure of the makeup of the other 2. It's been awhile. Zerker was tanking in offensive stance. Usually the makeup of the groups varied a lot because we just grabbed what 6 guildies were on. Sometimes illusionist or bard or coercer for mana regen and whatever else for last spot.<BR><BR>This was just one period of about 20 min. This however was the case when doing giants, sandfuries and so on. Yes, pretty much always grouped mobs as they gave better XP.<BR><BR>As I said, I never posted this before. Never posted or /feedbacked asking for nerf or anything because it was to our benefit to have our zerkers doing a lot of damage but, <FONT color=#ffff00>when people start complaining about being nerfed and saying their damage was already low enough</FONT>... All I know was our zerker, on a regular basis could do as much DPS as the rogues and still out tank the other classes in our guild, with same armor as the other tanks. This did not fit Moorgard's scale of combat updates.<BR><BR>No, you were getting nerfed LONG before I ever even posted here. LONG before I even posted a parse of 20 minutes of fighting. The nerf had already been put in the patch notes and on test before I ever even thought about posting anything here in this topic.<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffff00>As a tank class, I disagree totally with nerfing your taunt abilities.</FONT> They need to make them better. They need to go back to unresisted taunts. <P>Message Edited by Naggybait on <SPAN class=date_text>11-09-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:38 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I dont recall complaining that our damage was low already. Infact our damage is rather great in my opinion. The complaint is taht SOE has made our damage 60% of our aggro generation, our procs probably another 5-10%, and then the just NERF it a great deal with out compensating in some other way.<BR> <p>Message Edited by Zhonata on <span class=date_text>11-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:22 PM</span>

[silentpsycho]

I'd bet that assassin is the kind of assassin who doesn't have any ad3, master1, fabled gear, legendary gear, or a real weapon. The zerker on the otherhand is likely the type who has pristine imbued cobalt claymore a slew of fabled gear.oh yeah - and I bet that assassin is the kind of player who goes in using default attacks until that 30-60 second re-use timer refreshes. Ohh - yeah I forgot one other thing - bet that assassin doesn't go out and spend coin on fat poisons either.Assassin - go do your homework and learn to play your profession. As a fairly decked out WIZARD I get out dps'ed by rangers who know how to play their profession. ESPECIALLY on short fights where my 3-5 second cast times mean the fight is over before I can land a nuke.---------------------------------------------...um, right. I happen to play an Assasin, in Fabled gear, with poision and arrows that match my tier. Yeah, every 15 minutes or so, I can come close to a Wizard or Ranger if I go all out, sometimes I can come out on top of DPS stack if I'm lucky with positioning, stealth not breaking and no resists, and if I spend the money on poision and arrows, and work my tail off to use every single possible CA, moving in and out of stealth, in and out of position behind the mob or ranged attack range, and everything works perfectly. This is every 15 minutes. All the rest of the time, I get to use my fairly lame 1 time per fight CA's or straight up proc/melee skill, and when this happens, even if I keep working my tail off, I'm going to parse lower than any Wizard, Necro, Ranger, Bruiser, and most likely even a zerker. I'm calling the above parses B.S. because there is no way an assasin isn't either first place, or last place (more frequently) in that group of people - unless the others are slacking and we're comparing straight up melee damage.So, don't presume to know anything about a class you don't play, mister wizard. You don't know what you are talking about when you poke at an assasin who isn't matching a ranger in DPS - we just don't have the tools, even when properly equipped and properly played, to do so. In fact, I hear rumors that some of these issues, except the horrible recast time on our primary abilities, are being addressed in the next patch. The point is, don't speak of what you do not know.

[Cro]

<P>First of all .............. The spell that is being nerfed is the highest level offencive stance that berserkers get..........it's not just a combat art.</P> <P> </P> <P>Second off...............  Berserkers DPS is no where near that of scouts at 60 with same gear and tiers of spells.... I have around 190 hours of parsing with a Monk, Scouts,  and a Warlock that I group with every night that if I knew more about computers I would be glad to post all my logs minus the chat text.</P> <P> </P> <P>This does hit Berserkers hard, just have to see if DW makes up for anything. I HATE DW BTW</P>

[Naggyba]

I agree with nerfing in one area and not compensating in another. If this hurts your agro control, then they need to boost taunts a lot to make up for it. They need to do that anyway to all tank classs.

[einar4]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Excuse me! This is a Berserker whine thread!  Coercers and Conjurers, make you own whine thread!  :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I do agree that borking the Berserker class in the AE dept. was over the top, as AE is where the berserker shines and is often the best way they can hold the hate of large encounters.   The combat ability to <EM>"Root self and Generate Miniscule Levels of Hate" </EM>is pretty much akin to curling up into a ball and whimpering while enemies jump up and down on your head.  Rather pointless for encounters.  Mobility is and always has been the prime requisite for effective combat, from the bronze age to modern times. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> But heck, if one class gets to be un-fun, drop it for another.  I am not going to stand on street corners and shake my fists at the short school buses that the designers seem to be riding in. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>