A way to encourage grouping.

[Cowdenic]

<DIV>Make it so roots do not effect Heroic targets. Or any other effect that hinders movement. Then you will not have DPS classes soloing heroics, and you will have more people to group with those lonely plate class tanks and healers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This fix  or something like it is needed for the long term health of the game as some classes get as much xp soloing as full groups do and with no risk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Healers supposedly kill slower because it is safer for them to, but if healers are getting hit and DPS classes are not, who really has the safer time killing?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well time for me to go back to soloing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fizzle Fizzle Interrupt, my favorite.</DIV>

[g0thiC_iCe_cReaM]

i dunno if that's a good idea, i personally would like to have wizzies root stuff that i don't want beating on me while tanking in tight situations...

[Cowdenic]

<P>it unbalances the game, why just the other day, 2 necros and their pets duoed a epic x2. I have seen wizzy yesterday solo a heroic Yellow, get a heroic white add, root it, kill the yellow, then kill the white. </P> <P>Imbalances like this will kill the game.</P>

[Untruth]

<DIV>That, or they could always set roots up like in EQI, where they have a high chance to break on damage. Or in DAOC, where roots were guranteed to break on any sign of damage. Snares abilities are fine, since kiting isn't quite as effective in this game. Sure, it would still be possible to DoT kite supposedly, but in a game where killing goes bizzarely fast, it would probably be less efficient.</DIV>

[trenor]

<DIV>allow me to let you in on a secret for enchantrers my highest dd spell is 439!! Any more questions why i have root that was best in game before patch update nerf!! Now it is crappy as rest with no regard to anyhting else!  That smallchance to break is bs it breaks all the time!  This is rdiculous!! FYI I'm level 60!</DIV>

[Chog]

<DIV>Make it where roots become unpredictable if a mob is less then half health.  Would stop casters from soloing Heroic encounters while still allowing root to be used in a CC role in a group.</DIV>

[ValdacilFelagund]

<P>You make it sound like it's a walk in the park to solo heroics.  You make it sound like there is NO risk what-so-ever to those paper armor mage classes when they attempt something like that.  Have you EVER played a mage at all???  Something like that demonstrates a great deal of skill and a margin of luck.  If that root breaks (which it seems to do all the time... some encounters I can only get one HO off before I have to reroot) the mage is toast.  One resisted spell (which also seems to happen all the time) and the entire battle could go bad.  It's not like a mage can just rush in, dagger flashing, and start slicing up a heroic with no fear.  It requires a great deal of skill and strategy.</P> <P>Now I don't know anything about soloing a yellow heroic.  Perhaps I haven't reach a level where my spells allow that, or perhaps I just don't have that kind of skill.  But my wizard can solo a low blue at best and I end the battle on the very bottom of my power.  My coercer is lucky to be able to take a green heroic, my necro is happy to survive a gonna-be-grey-in-one-level heroic.  And many other players I know couldn't even handle those.  So whoever this person was demonstrated a good level of skill.</P> <P>Now some might argue that they have no chance what-so-ever of soloing a blue heroic no matter what strategy they use.  But taking the root away from the mages is certainly not an answer.  You remove that and you remove ALL hope of EVER being able to solo that mage... against ANYTHING.  Who cares that this person soloed a heroic?  What does it matter?  Maybe the problem isn't the that mages should be nerfed but other classes boosted?  Maybe the problem is that you feel your character isn't powerful enough.  Then by all means reroll a mage class and you will find that it's not as easy as they make it look.</P>

[Kingm]

Heroics need to be isolated. There are too many at the moment and they are spread everywhere.In EQ1 and other MMOs I have played, people congregated at specific areas which made the gameworld feel that little bit smaller and atmospheric - it also made grouping easier.The difficulty involved in creating groups is the biggest inhibitor at the moment.Before people start raving about camping... Please tell me how that is going to be possible when I am on the second most populated server and yet Permafrost and CT zones seem to be at probably 1/10th utilisation.

[Spag]

<DIV>Chalk the original post up to:  I don't have it, so nerf it.</DIV>

[Fayline Fyrecat]

read his others? it's a recurring theme :smileyvery-happy:

[Amise]

Please nerf other classes instead of giving mine the tools I think it needs.  It's FAIR dammit. <div></div>

[Ildarus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <P>it unbalances the game, why just the other day, 2 necros and their pets duoed a epic x2. I have seen wizzy yesterday solo a heroic Yellow, get a heroic white add, root it, kill the yellow, then kill the white. </P> <P>Imbalances like this will kill the game.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I have read some of your other threads where you said similar stuff, but no proof. I got an idea, next time pull up the characters stat windows, take a screen shot of them fighting these epics and then post it and whine about their classes. You never give any proof, just accusations.</P>

[zorbdan]

<P>Unpredictable root is not the answer. I always hated it in EQ1 and I hate it in this game too.</P> <P>The answer to Root is giving mobs the ability to use range attacks, but I am sure that is too complicated for the DEVs to figure out.</P> <P> </P>

[g0thiC_iCe_cReaM]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> zorbdan wrote:<BR> <P>Unpredictable root is not the answer. I always hated it in EQ1 and I hate it in this game too.</P> <P>The answer to Root is giving mobs the ability to use range attacks, but I am sure that is too complicated for the DEVs to figure out.</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>bwhahahahahah</P> <P>/sarcasm</P>

[Gandi]

LOL...at this thread even existing

[g0thiC_iCe_cReaM]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gandino wrote:<BR>LOL...at this thread even existing <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>QFE</P> <P>:smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Cowdenic]

First off, I have a Warlock, it does affect me. Secondly I said to not let roots affect Heroic mobs. Seems simple enough to me.

[retro_guy]

<div></div>Well as a 55 conj I SOLO ^^^ heroics, and don't even use root, so I suppose next you'll be asking for my pets to be made so they can't hit heroics. Why should people be forced to group? The xp gain from doing these heroics really isn't worth the time and chests seldom drop when you solo, atleast the drop rate is much higher in a group. Why if all these healers and tanks are sitting around on their hands are you never able to find a healer or a (good) tank? <div></div><p>Message Edited by retro_guy on <span class=date_text>11-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:00 AM</span>

[Cowdenic]

because as you high dps classes state when healers want a dps increase, they are a group class, well this is a group game. So you cannot have it both ways, either make it so high dps classes cannot get better xp soloing than grouped, or increase healer and some tank dps.

[retro_guy]

Honestly, who cares about XP?? XP comes so fast in this game just about everyone I know had atleast 3 characters 50+ The XP gain should be halved, it's absurd that you cannot even throughly explore a tier before it greys out. <div></div>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> retro_guy wrote:<BR>Honestly, who cares about XP??<BR><BR>XP comes so fast in this game just about everyone I know had atleast 3 characters 50+<BR><BR>The XP gain should be halved, it's absurd that you cannot even throughly explore a tier before it greys out.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>NO. You can gain XP faster than exploring a tier. Low DPS have more than enough opprotunity to explore the zones. Tier 6 will be a joy. That is the point.

[Timaarit]

Nah, make all roots and equivalent to break with damage. <div></div>

[Nosewar]

<DIV>Bring back xp LOSS, hell levels, and gear with corpse recoveries.  And I mean it, you whining babies!  Easy [Removed for Content] game.</DIV>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Timaarit wrote:<BR>Nah, make all roots and equivalent to break with damage.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>on heroic mobs aye.

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nosewarts wrote:<BR> <DIV>Bring back xp LOSS, hell levels, and gear with corpse recoveries.  And I mean it, you whining babies!  Easy [Removed for Content] game.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>How can you bring BACK what never existed in the game in the first place? This is not EQ1 redux. If you want to play EQ1 its still up and running. The chances of EQ2 ever becoming as 'hardcore' a game as EQ1 is highly unlikely, its not aimed at the same demographic. </P> <P>To the OP, I have never effectively soloed a heroic on my Warlock. I tried a green heroic once, 6 levels below me and got my head handed to me. If you are so convinced that casters can kill without risk, I provide to you my kill vs death ratio as exhibit A. :smileywink:</P> <P>Removing an Archtypes ability to solo doesnt 'encourage' grouping, it <STRONG>forces</STRONG> grouping and that is unacceptable. </P>

[g0thiC_iCe_cReaM]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tomanak wrote:<BR><BR> <P>Removing an Archtypes ability to solo doesnt 'encourage' grouping, it <STRONG>forces</STRONG> grouping and that is unacceptable. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>this is very true and it also makes them useless in raids...</DIV>

[UrkBloodA]

<P>sadly my roots don't affect epic targets.  it would be very nice if they did.  </P> <P>pets on the other hand - nerf them cause my profession doesn't get them and ad3 pets are WAY better for soloing blue/green ^^^ heroic content than roots.</P> <P> </P> <P>counter proposal : increase the xp given for having 6 active people in group.</P> <P>counter proposal : put relationship counter on players in group - as people group together they become more and more familiar with each other and gain less and less xp when they group unless they group with new people.   Decay relationship only when not grouped with friends and gaining xp with others. </P> <P>counter proposal : change how group xp and combat mechanics works so that a group with level difference so that a level 50 character isn't shunned in a group of level 56-60 players.    There are similar reason why a level 51-53 group isn't attracted to a level 49 player or a level 55 player.  XP penalities, and RESISTANCES/Effectiveness in group are the biggest factors.  As well as plain old player ignorance to how buffs work.  (For example if you are in a 51-53 group does your group without a warlock have a better chance against 55 heroic ^^^ stuff if they group the level 49 warlock  who has master 2 seal ??? the same applies to any level 49 profession which has a buff your group is lacking.)</P> <P> </P>

[Nosewar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tomanak wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nosewarts wrote:<BR> <DIV>Bring back xp LOSS, hell levels, and gear with corpse recoveries.  And I mean it, you whining babies!  Easy [Removed for Content] game.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>How can you bring BACK what never existed in the game in the first place? This is not EQ1 redux. If you want to play EQ1 its still up and running. The chances of EQ2 ever becoming as 'hardcore' a game as EQ1 is highly unlikely, its not aimed at the same demographic.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>It's called a SEQUEL for a reason.  Hence the wide-ranging similarities with class, race, loots, quests, lore, spells, etc.  All they did was update the EQ1 graphics engine and implement a lot of DAOC's improvements on the EQ1 PvE model.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any warlock who can't kill any heroic ever doesn't know how to play his class. That is pathetic.</DIV>

[Ayu]

<DIV>I think that nerfing root has to be the stupidest idea ever given to encourage grouping. </DIV> <DIV>Given that some really really dumb ideas have been tossed out in the past, you should feel proud of your new level of idiocy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just come out an say it. Some classes can solo heroics and you're jealous, so you come here and try and make yourself seem like you're trying to improve the game when really you just wish you could do the same thing as they're doing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What's next? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take feign death away from monks because it lets them solo in a safer fashion then you can? That way they may have to group.</DIV> <DIV>Make it so healers can only heal other people? That way they have to group too.</DIV> <DIV>How about scout attacks giving the mob a large damage shield so that they'll always need a healer to fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ya, those are pretty bad ideas... on par with breaking casting roots against heroics.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I love casters rooting heroics because if things start respawning in a dungeon I love not having that creature beat on me until I'm done with the one we're currently dealing with. It is a mechanic that helps them solo as well as make themselves useful as something other then nuke repeating DPS machines in groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just because somebody can solo something you can't doesn't mean it should be nerfed in the guise of encouraging grouping. If you're really so jealous, re-roll. </DIV> <DIV>Maybe you play a wizard and you're trying to nerf your own class.. in that case you're a liar who should know full well that there is risk involved on resists and breaks, it's not as much xp as a full group, and that the downtimes are much longer.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have yet to find a class that can't solo or at least duo blue/white heroics if they know what they're doing. Unless that creature is a named with powerful specials of course.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stop trying to make it seem like this is game breaking.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(and no, I do not play a caster of any sort. I play a monk.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Cowdenic]

play a templar, just try it

[Twizzel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR>play a templar, just try it <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>In all fairness, Templars "can" solo...it just takes 10 times longer than any other class....

[Ninusar]

<DIV>OP was a horrible idea.  The game is not perfectly balanced no.  But to take away root would just be moronic.  Soloing can be done by every class.  Granted some solo better than others but that is to be expected.  They never said everyone would be equal soloers just soloing was an option... how well you can solo is based on class selection just like every other game factor like tankablity, DPS, Healing, etc....  If you enjoy soloing then you should not have made a templar.  The grouping problem isnt created by casters who can solo.  It was created when they made solo exp comparable to group exp.  If you can get just as good exp soloing quests/exping in thr process. why would you go through the trouble of looking for a group.</DIV>

[Hamzil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> g0thiCiCecReaM wrote:<BR>i dunno if that's a good idea, i personally would like to have wizzies root stuff that i don't want beating on me while tanking in tight situations... <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It's hard for a wizzy to do any type of rooting crowd control.  Even if they spam in /gsay they're rooting a mob...  Often times by the time the mob is in range and can be rooted by a wizzy, it's already on the tank.  Most tanks don't notice or move out of the rooted mob's melee range to make it worthwhile for a wizzy to even try to do mob control.

[Finora]

<P>Nerf root. LOL right. That will really help balance. /sarcasm off</P> <P>And no, my main isn't a nuker, I'm a mystic. Seconds are ranger and a berserker, followed up by a druid. </P> <P>Nosewarts, they stated it was going to be a different game. They even said they considered not calling it EQ2 because of people like you assuming it is just a sequel with better graphics.  Even Sequels don't do everything exactly like they do in the originals (Diablo/Diablo2, the whole of the Eldar Scrolls series for just small example).</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> UrkBloodAxe wrote:<BR> <P>counter proposal : increase the xp given for having 6 active people in group.</P> <P>__________________________________________________ ____________________________________________</P> <P>Didn't they do this? For groups that have 3 or more players?</P> <P> </P> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P>

[Ninusar]

<DIV>---------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> <P>Nerf root. LOL right. That will really help balance. /sarcasm off</P> <P>And no, my main isn't a nuker, I'm a mystic. Seconds are ranger and a berserker, followed up by a druid. </P> <P>Nosewarts, they stated it was going to be a different game. They even said they considered not calling it EQ2 because of people like you assuming it is just a sequel with better graphics.  Even Sequels don't do everything exactly like they do in the originals (Diablo/Diablo2, the whole of the Eldar Scrolls series for just small example).</P></DIV> <DIV> <P>--------------------------------------------------------</P> <P>Nosewarts went about saying it the wrong way.  EQ2 is not EQ1 correct.  EQ2 is not as hardcore as EQ1 correct.  EQ2 is a Sequel..... Correct.  It has things that are different but yes.... but they would have to be or it wouldnt be a sequal it would be the same game.  EQ2 has the same History, lore, legend, Basic class set up, along with very similar abilities.  None of that is arguable.  </P> <P>And as for game difficulty casual gamers and soloers will not lose thier spot in the game but eventually the game will have to become more hardcore... as the casual gamers and soloers catch up to the hardcore gamers the playerbase as a whole will be looking for bigger and better things, not just a reason to create an alt.  Some will argue this but its a fact when things are to easy players will lose intrest.</P></DIV>

[Tige]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <DIV>Make it so roots do not effect Heroic targets. Or any other effect that hinders movement. Then you will not have DPS classes soloing heroics, and you will have more people to group with those lonely plate class tanks and healers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This fix  or something like it is needed for the long term health of the game as some classes get as much xp soloing as full groups do and with no risk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Healers supposedly kill slower because it is safer for them to, but if healers are getting hit and DPS classes are not, who really has the safer time killing?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well time for me to go back to soloing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fizzle Fizzle Interrupt, my favorite.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Didn't you quit the game? I see you are still focus on other classes and such and not really focusing on your own class and it's abilites. Are you even 60 yet? With all the complaining posts I have seen from you, you should be level 60 by now..LOL. And when you do get to 60, what new things you will be complaining since you can no longer get anymore XP?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cowdenicus, you kill me! :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jai1]

<DIV>Im a necro and I've always soloed heriocs and used to camp named ones when the con was 6 levels. Now ones 6 levels under are still doable and I can solo higher ones with root/pet recasts still. However, it is just a novelty to me. I don't try to exp that way because its not effective. So what are you missing out on? Exp? It's better in groups constantly killing. Loot? Nothing that you get soloing is worth anything more than vendor loot. Power? not sure if people get off on virtual power but whatever.  I really dont think people prefer to solo. Duo maybe its killer exp.</DIV>

[Magic]

<DIV> <DIV>OMG!!!  My level 8 fighter can kill green 5^^^ heroics.  Do I see a fighter nerf coming anytime soon?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV> <DIV>Anti-solo modifications WON'T encourage me to group but WILL drive me away from this game.  Are you all trying to rid Norrath of all soloers?  It sure seems that way.  I hope that the developers don't actually consider such proposals.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try starting a toon on a server that is heavily populated when you're normally online.  That should increase your chances of forming groups.  No, do not consolidate servers.  I prefer low-population servers for farming, collecting, and access to more mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If starting a new toon on a populated server is not an option, then give people a good reason to group with you.  For example, bribe them.  Pay them a fair value based on what loot you expect to keep from the encounter(s).  If you'll be killing the same type of mobs many times then you could instead give them each a turn at one chest in every cycle (a cycle is one chest for each member in the group) and let them each keep whatever is in their chests.  Chests from junk mobs don't count unless you get enough for a full cycle.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I solo because of the challenges, rewards, and freedom.  Don't take that away from me, regardless of which subclass I use.</DIV>