Shattered Line : Conjuror change

[anaugi]

<DIV><STRONG>Conjurer changes:<BR></STRONG>- Shattered Ground now delivers its damage faster.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What this message is failing to say is that this spell is being severely neutered in that the real key to this spell was that it has a stifle/pacify component that conjuror's rely on nearly every single fight.  By changing the duration of this spell from 12 seconds to 5 seconds, it doesn't really matter that the same damage is being delivered faster (no mob dies in less than 12 seconds to us, that is worth fighting so the arguement that the spell was not completing before the mob dies is invalid), it matters that we lose 7 seconds of stifle/pacify per cast, with the same lengthy recast time of 40 seconds.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While our tank pets have a lot of hps, they mitigate zero of the incoming hits upon them.  Generally we put up a shattered spell and load dots of various forms on the mob letting them to their job while the mob is "incapacitated", knowing the pet is still there between us and the mob in decent shape, generating damage but not taking any for a moment (ie: we're not panicking to keep it alive while trying to put damage on the mob).  This change makes it that the pet is going to be getting hit MUCH more often, making it a complete race to kill the mob before the pet outright dies.  The pet's health drops fast when it is being hit, and we often finish a fight with a very low hp pet because we can't heal it worth any respectible amount.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This change makes us exposed to damage MUCH more often and we have little ability to protect ourselves from damage as the pet is going to get beat down very quickly now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This seems like a very arbitrary change to this spell line, with no explaination as to why.  I have never seen anyone ask to make this spell deliver it's damage faster. It appears as if it's purely to remove the stifle component's effectiveness from our lineup.  Conjuror's were finally feeling confident in their abilities, and enjoying how we approached every fight knowing we had "some" ability to limit how fast our pets would get killed, primarily our only defence, not discounting how enjoyed this spell was when brought to a group.. by the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please don't insert, "at least you have a stifle/pacify", as there are lots of spells each class would like to have as well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is purely an adjustment to an essential spell in a very negative way, with no explaination, or even comment as to what the change really does.  It is not just "Shattered Ground now delivers its damage faster", it is also "Shattered Ground has had it's stifle component decreased by 60%".  This is not a whine, it is illustrating what a painful change this is to our class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anaugi Oni - Oasis  <EM><FONT size=1>(edit: spelling)</FONT></EM></DIV><p>Message Edited by anaugi on <span class=date_text>11-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:42 PM</span>

[Zachatan]

<P>Aye... The castign time hurts now with the duration of this spell...</P> <P>No shortened time for the lost of amount of stifle...</P> <P>No adjustment on heals to better protect our pet then....  would like to know why as well</P>

[Squall Leonhea]

Yes this is one of the most important spells, maybe the best reason to group with us, shattered earth from 12 down to 5 sek? Thats too hard <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />(. Was our stiffle/pacify ability too overpowered or with this bad change? <div></div>

[RixenBladeba]

<DIV>I must say that I agree with all that's being said here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a conjuror, I find myself using the Shattered Line every fight.  Some of the other spells that people rave over are situational at best.. but if that spell is up and I'm in a fight I cast it.  That spell is one of the only reasons that our pets can effectively tank since the combat changes.  Please don't say that we should be using our other stun line(calcify) as the casting time on that is longer than the duration of the stun itself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I agree... why is this being done.  The damage being delivered faster has nothing to do with this change being beneficial.  This is a nerf plain and simple, and it is one that severely affects the class.  Either give our pets the ability to mitigate or stop messing with our class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rixen Bladebane</DIV> <DIV>59 Conjuror</DIV> <DIV>The Knights who say Ni</DIV>

[Tinam]

<DIV>Just feel I have to voice agreement with folks on here. This spell line is essential to survival in the 50's where mobs are hitting pets for several hundred (if not more) a pop. I never saw any problem with this spell line, i've never had anyone complain to me that it was overpowered. Why this huge and horrible change? I know my duo-mate is very disapointed and shocked as well /sigh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Deleo</DIV> <DIV>Guk</DIV>

[vbt546]

<P>Great, can't take 10 mins to dump the stupid 1 point of damage rule, but one guy whines that he saw a Conj solo a green ^^^ and out comes the nerf bat.</P> <P>Getting so tired of it.</P> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[DRdeathscyt]

<P>With the shattered line being nerf like this really making conj suffers.</P> <P>soloing groups are hard enough as it is with 12s shattered land casted, since pet will nvr be able to hold aggro with us casting AEs anyway.</P> <P>to me.. it would be overpowered in group situation if u have mulitple conj casting Shattered line spells one after each other, but within solo situation, without the long duration, thats  goin to kill the pet too fast since pet are useless in tanking. and dont even mention the useless heal spell</P> <P>instead of nerfing the duration, y not just make that spell unstackable within groups.</P> <DIV>y not just make it unstackable within group situation...ie if shatterd line spell is casted all conj cant cast it until recast of the first conj who casted it is up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>thats just my thought</DIV> <P>60 conj/sage</P> <p>Message Edited by DRdeathscythe on <span class=date_text>11-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:02 PM</span>

[Akyl]

I agree, there are a few threads about this over on the Conjuror boards as well.  This is a huge, huge nerf.  5 seconds is not even in line with what other classes get, I don't want to get any other classes nerfed, but I am aware of at least one melee class whose pacify lasts for 6 seconds.  I can understand needing to drop down from 12 seconds, but loss of 7 seconds is substantial on this same recast timer. The multiple conjuror argument could hold true for any class that gets a stun - think of what two brawler types could do, or two wizards, or two of anything that has any type of lockdown ability.  The only way for them to address this scenario is to implement some type of diminishing returns system so that subsequent applications of the same spell apply a shorter duration of their crowd control aspect... but that is a lot harder than changing durations. <div></div>

[Jor]

<P>No ????</P> <P>Don't do that please it's bad <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Really that's the one spell I cast every fight.. It's the little something usefull I bring in groups...</P> <P>At least reduce the recast time or add something. </P>

[Twofeets]

Good god, this is just too much. As has been stated, this spell is a MUST when fighting groups of mobs (and Im not talking about heroics).  At 55, my pet heal is 381pts, that's about 1/4 of a bubble of my tank pets health.  My tank pet is adept III, with a master II defensive stance.  Even so, he takes a horrible beat down due to 0 mitigation.  Its actually more power efficient when I duo with my wife's fury for me to tank and let the mob DPS, since I take less damage ! Please, if you're going to kill our stifle at least adjust our pet heals, taunts, and damage mitigation!  As was stated, even with a master II defensive stance we will be unable to cast the new version of shattered earth without gaining aggro.  Our heal, pet taunts, and pet mitigation will all need to be altered to allow our pet to survive long  enough for us to use  some other method of fighting.  <div></div>

[Ravishing]

<DIV>I have to agree with all the other posters... I use this spell everytime its availible... Soloing and in Groups!  This is a HUGE Nerf and would like at least a Dev response!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would rather the spell loose all its damage to keep its duration of stifle...</DIV>

[mercurial]

<DIV>This is just horrible....our best spell nerfed.   Can one of the Dev's at least comment on WHY?   It's not like we're overpowered....</DIV>

[Dragonslayer810]

<DIV>I agree with everyone that we use this every fight and how we will be crippled etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just think of the mass amount of agrro we will put on our selfs by doing ummm 400 dmg a sec </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also the duration doesnt even change at all...our eh forgot the level 27 or 28 shattered spell is the same as the 53 duration wise...pfft what kinda upgrade is that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really can't see why they would do this...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know with SOE nothing is always set in stone but im really hoping they will reconsider.</DIV>

[On3iron]

<DIV>I hope they will reconsider... this is a horrible nerf to conjurers.</DIV>

[Akyl]

<div></div>Lockeye has been responding to other classes on their changes, hopefully he will take a look at this too since this is such a major change for the post-50 Conjuror; so is MI+Sacrifice for those of us who knew about it, but I agree that this one is much worse.  I would really like to know why it is being changed so substantially, why they aren't reducing the recast delay on it to offset this gigantic nerf (over 50% effectiveness is now lost), and why it is now lower in duration than the pacifies given to other classes.  Any way for us to get any kind of comment on this?  The Conjuror class is being hit with SO many negative changes in this patch it would be great to get some kind of response. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Akylah on <span class=date_text>11-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:45 AM</span>

[Excogit]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><font size="2">I have never posted a complaint about eq2 before, this is my first in 8 or so years in playing Everquest I and II First, It seems to me that this is a harsh but necessary change Keeping a single MoB from doing anything for 30 seconds out of every minute (from shattered land and calcify), (or 18 seconds out of every minute from shattered land) was indeed too much However, this change reveals several things about the class that were not quite as well balanced as they should have been (but most likely overlooked due to the obscene shattered land duration) My first key observation: </font> <font color="#ff0000" size="2"><b>I still use Aggravate over Transient Haven in all soloed encounters even if they are heroic!</b><font color="#ffffff"><font color="#ffffff"> From my observations the haven'd pet is better to use than the aggravated pet for one of several reasons a) The ward is too small, when MoBs hit for over 1000 dmg, a ward for under 100 pts only mitigates less than 10% of the incoming dmg b) The added hp adds little defensive value (maybe only a couple extra large hits on the pet) c) There is no improvement to defense which means the pet is going to get hit very often only accentuating the above two points d) Hate gain is good, however I notice the aggravated pet holds aggro about as well due to the following fact e) Reducing the dps by 25% is harsh     (i) The aggravated pet does over (1.5x-.75x)/.75x=100% more dmg or 2x the dmg of the haven'd pet     (ii) Let tank time be defined as the amount of time it takes the opposing MoB to kill the pet without any added spells on the conjurors part     (iii) From this one should suspect that there should be a maintenance of (total damage over the tank time)/(total tank time) for both stances     (iv) From observations, this ratio is laughably far off with the actual stances, the havn'd pet never lasts twice the time of the aggravated pet </font></font></font><font color="#ff0000" size="2"><font color="#ffffff">Clearly there is an issue here,</font></font><font color="#ff0000" size="2"><font color="#ffffff"> that there is no situation in which the defensive (soloer) stance is preferable to the offensive (grouper) stance My second observation: <font color="#ff0000"><b>I never use Pet heals in combat!</b> <font color="#ffffff">a) From a number standpoint, healing compensates for 600ish hp/3 seconds or 200 dps b) Clearly in most fights the MoB is doing dmg far far in excess of 200 dps c) From a % of pet health standpoint, this rarely recovers more than (what seems like) 10% of an adept III tellurian myrmidon with adept III transient haven d) The same issues apply to minion's intervention, the resurrection recovers only enough hp to make the pet last another couple of seconds hardly a divine act Heals w.r.t. pets are part of combat, they were in eq1 and eq2 before the combat revamp, they should still be relevant My third observation: <font color="#ff0000"><b>Our spells now get progressively weaker relative to our lvl!</b> <font color="#ffffff">a) When the combat changes were released I was thrilled to see that the shattered land line and calcify line actually improved duration per spell upgrade b) Seeing your spells actually improve as you got new ones made me excited about playing, I leveled like a fiend to get that new shattered land spell c) Now it seems that (with the fixed duration per upgrade of these lines) we essentially have the same DoT, DD, AoE DoT, Stun, Pet stances etc.... for the ENTIRE GAME! d) Clearly this is not a fun change as the game feels from a combat standpoint similar at 60 as it did at 30 e) For this reason, I am sure many casual conjuror's are asking themselves, why play a game in which nothing changes as you lvl up? Eq2 is fun (to me at least) because my character grows, improves, and changes as I level To get you started maybe try some of these: <font color="#ff0000">With respect to the transient haven line</font> a) Add a scalable by spell quality (adept I, III, etc..) and lvl bonus to pet defense (the best and easiest sol'n in my opinion) b) Make the dps decrease less severe or make it descale with spell quality c) Add extra bonus hp or extra ward absorption (though this is probably the worst way to go) <font color="#ff0000">With respect to pet heals</font> a) Significantly increase the amount the heal does b) Make it a % of total hp based heal rather than a static amount c) Make it a heal over time <font color="#ff0000">With respect to spell scaling (especially with the stun/shattered land line)</font> a) Look at decreasing recast time with respect to spell line upgrades b) Look at increasing duration time with respect to spell line upgrades c) Look at changing the cast time with respect to spell line upgrades (altering any of these quantities will make it more meaningful to lvl, they are easy without even requiring new effects or spell lines) </font></font></font></font></font></font><font color="#ff0000" size="2"><font color="#ffffff"><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffffff"><font color="#ff0000"><font color="#ffffff">In conclusion please address these issues, most are easy to fix and would make so many people more satisfied with the game</font></font></font></font></font></font><div></div><p><font size="2">Message Edited by Excogitus on <span class="date_text">11-11-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:44 AM</span></font></p><p><font size="2">Message Edited by Excogitus on <span class="date_text">11-11-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:45 AM</span></font></p><p><font size="2">Message Edited by Excogitus on <span class="date_text">11-11-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:45 AM</span></font></p><p>Message Edited by Excogitus on <span class=date_text>11-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:46 AM</span>

[Ninusar]

<DIV>I would have to agree.  Conjs need that spell line to be efficent solo class that it is... i agree that the effect should be made to non-stackable but dont understand why they found it a good idea to nerf it.</DIV>