Downside of too many rares

[Speak]

<DIV>In the past quest  rewards had value.  Now with the increase harvesting of rares in DOF, it  is not hard for most players to have a set of T-6 armor and accessories.  The end result is the rewards from DOF based quest have little use as the stats in most cases are lower then player made gear. With the no trade label all they have become is vendor trash.  How about bumping the stats up over and above the lengendary made T-6 equipment so they have some useful purpose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Speaker</DIV>

[Unholy_Ang]

<DIV>Bad Idea. If that happened, it would tick a lot of people off because now their t6 legendary is not as good anymore compared the the "vendor trash" they already sold. Also, rares are called rares for a reason. People work hard to buy them or harvest many hours to obtain them. Making the product of these rares not as good would be terrible. Just my 2cp.</DIV>

[Krooner]

<P>SOE has the burdomsome task of trying to balance 2 sides of the same game.</P> <P>On the one had you have your adventurer he goes out and kills for his money gear and fun... some also harvest.</P> <P>On the other hand you have the crafters who get their money and fun from.. they too harvest its just the lower level adventurer ones have a harder time.</P> <P>No matter what you do one side or the other is going to have better stats.... The key is in a little more variety.</P> <P>Player made gear has good stats and some imbue procs.</P> <P>Treasured gear has better stats one one or two resists such as poison and cold ect.</P> <P>Most people use this as raid gear to bump up their resists a little.</P> <P>I would think a little more variety in the stats that playermade gear doesnt provied would make the treasuered item more attactive.  Maybe even have some of the harder fought gear with some minor secondary abilities.</P>

[Dasein]

Actually, from what I've seen, the quest rewards in DoF are a good supplement to rare crafted items, as many will have some nice resists or at least different resist combinations, or a sngle high stat, which makes them very useful when specializing in one stat or resist.

[Speak]

Well rares are hardly rare anymore. Have every slot filled with T-6 rares or better.  So I am not sure if the term "rare" is valid anymore.  The game is called Ever"Quest", but if the rewards are not good, why bother questing?  And yes  I have soold the rewards for the few gold they bring as the items are not useful, or are no-trade but usless because they are for a different class.

[EtoilePirate]

<span><blockquote><hr>Speaker wrote:Well rares are hardly rare anymore. Have every slot filled with T-6 rares or better.  So I am not sure if the term "rare" is valid anymore.  The game is called Ever"Quest", but if the rewards are not good, why bother questing?  And yes  I have soold the rewards for the few gold they bring as the items are not useful, or are no-trade but usless because they are for a different class. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Or it could just be that you have good fortune! I do, on the whole, a large amount of harvesting.  I have all the glowing/glimmering/lambent things that anyone could ever need or want and I give them away.  I managed to get enough rhodium to make Adept IIIs of all the T5 skills worth keeping, and I got myself a ruby ring.  I landed my cedar from raiding. And I have never once gotten an ebon or a cobalt for myself.  Never.  I just don't find them.  I have ebon pants 'cause a guildie noticed what crap I was going raiding in and gave them to me.  I have stacks and stacks and stacks of indium and fulginate, but no ebon or cobalt. Rares are -not- universally easy to find.  Maybe you shouls just be glad you have good luck. </span><div></div>

[Vicio]

<DIV>I can't speak for other classes, but quested jewelry for Templars is much nicer than rare jewelry.</DIV>

[Goldenpaw]

<P>Are they not rare still?</P> <P>Wow I must be the most unlucky harvester of all times, as i harvest consistently 500 or so non rares to 1 rare.</P> <P>I spend 4 - 5 hours and find one.  I'm not sure but I'd still consider that rare, like maybe gold is in real life, compared to platinum.  Maybe I should only get a rare find every 8 hours to make it better?</P> <P>So every 40-50% xp I waste a day looking for my "rare" should be even harder?  Like I should be able to go gain a level in the same amount of time I find one rare?</P> <P>I'm afraid I disagree whole heartedly with rares not being rare.</P> <P>Maybe someone out there has gotten a lot more luck than I have, but out of the rare data sample I have had I would like to state for me, rare is still rare.</P><p>Message Edited by Goldenpaw on <span class=date_text>11-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:15 PM</span>

[Naggyba]

Well, with the way SOE is doing xpaks, it's good t6 rares are not so rare. In a good system, t5 fabled would still be usable in the t6 game while you go do raids to replace t5 fabled. Instead, t5 fabled for melee people is almost useless and requires purchasing t6 rare armor. It should be easier to get the rares to re-outfit the 1000s of people that spent 8+ months getting fabled only to have it become obsolete in one xpak.Right now, the amount of t6 rares are just fine. I see maybe turning down the amount in 3 months or so.

[Speak]

<DIV>Guys you are missing my point here. I am not asking for any changes in the number of T-6 rare drops.  I am just saying that with rares now , well lets call them uncommon as they are hardly rare anymore, many DOF quest rewards are no longer useful with the lower stats in most cases. Pre-DOF or when T-5 was king many hertiage and quest items were useful, and in some cases better then lengendary. All I am saying is SOE should do a balance pass over quest rewards, and make sure that quest rewards can be used by all classes.  Nothing like getting a plate reward when one is a chain user.</DIV>

[Magu]

Speaker, we're not missing your point, but we think it is an INVALID point. Just because YOU have good luck finding rares does not make them common. Some of us can't find many rares even now, and dont have a lot of money, so we can't just get full T6 legendary. Get with the program and stop acting like they're super common. <div></div>

[Strade]

I have to agree with other people here. I didnt harvest any rare in DoF but the imbuing crap. So for me its still really rare.

[Speak]

<DIV>While some people have found more rares then others the fact is over all "rares" are a lot more common then in the past.  What I am trying to point out is the T-6 quest rewards need to be looked at.  Quite a few are not better upgrades then say T-5 rewards. T-6 Quest rewards stats should be cover a wide stat range and the harder quest  should be better than treasured drops and  standard crafted gear and in some cases be better then lengendary.  The T-6 Quest  can be done by all classes but the rewards in many cases are class limited.  In the past there were enough reward options so all classes could get a functional reward. All I am asking is the design team make a pass on the DOF quest rewards.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as finding rares, its really not a question of luck.  Most rares tend to spawn from the same node locations, some locations are hotter then others.  Some locations are mined all the time and thus you have a lower chance of hitting a rare.  In other areas, you can make a circuit and never see another player and you tend to find rares more often then not in those places.  Example you have a better chance of scoring  in POF then in the croc caves.</DIV>

[Magu]

You are wrong on all accounts, Speaker. There are no set locations for rares, and treasured should NEVER be better then legendary. <div></div>

[thorvang]

--So every 40-50% xp I waste a day looking for my "rare" should be even harder? Like I should be able to go gain a level in the same amount of time I find one rare?--another point to the "rares shouldn't drop off nodes" proposal.

[Magu]

That'll never happen. Sony does not require raiding, so rares will always come from harvest nodes as well. <div></div>

[Tro]

<P>I can say this, the t6 rare drop rates are streaky. One day of harvesting (6 hours) in SS i get 2 Lambent Stones. Next day in the first 2 hours, i get 3 cobalt clusters. This is pretty much the way I have seen it. </P> <P>I for one am glad they increased the drop rate of the rare items.. I started farming for ebon armor (Prior to the increase) when I was 39 i think and did not have a full set of ebon till I was 44. I am a casual player and by no means rich. For t6 Cobalt Armor, I started harvesting at 49 and at 50 had a full set. Much better =)</P> <P>They are still rare.. not as rare as before but still rare. These drops are (I believe) random so alot of time it's luck of the draw.  Making quest items better than the crafted would be a bad idea IMO. </P>

[Speak]

<DIV>You are wrong on all accounts, Speaker. There are no set locations for rares, and treasured should NEVER be better then legendary.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Magus</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not sure how this got hijacked about rares.  But the above statement is just an opinion, not a fact.  There are set locations for node spawns, they spawn in a set specific areas in DOF. It has been my experience (based on harvestings  42+ T-6  prime rares, that is wood, roots, metal and gems since DOF went live) that some of these node locations tend to spawn rares more often while other node locations if they do spawn rares, do so rarely. I can think of at least 5 spawn points where I have got 3 or 4 rares for the same spawn location. Other node spots I have seen none. Does this mean they wont spawn a rare, no.... just some spots seem more productive then others.  Is it luck? Well if you harvest in the  heavy traffic areas yes it is luck you find anything at all.  On the other hand if you can locate  a series of node spawn points in the less travels areas of DOF, rares are not uncommon. Most nights I can harvest 1 rare within 30 or 45 mins.  Do spawns go in cycles sure, I can remember one time I went 3-days without finding a rare from my normal harvesting locations. From reading the boards other people were seeing the same thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Does each spawn have its own RNG? maybe, does each node have the same odds?I don't know, all I can do is draw my own conclusions based on my harvesting results.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And some quests items should be better then legendary, here again just my opinion, it does not mean I am wrong or you are wrong... just we have different viewpoints. In the end its SOE's opinion that counts. And there are T-1 to T-5 quested items that are better then crafted, this is something that already exist, especially at the lower tiers.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Speaker on <span class=date_text>11-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:15 AM</span>

[Seolta]

<P>I think the original poster is approaching this as an itemization problem, but he's overlooking an important fact...</P> <P>In DoF, the quests are structured differently than in the old world.</P> <P>Alot of the quests serve some other purpose than just giving an item reward.  </P> <P>One example is the linear progression Peacock Club quest. You do get an item at the completion of each individual quest, but the ultimate reward is zone access.</P> <P>Most of the short, non progressive quests are incredibly easy and shouldn't give a reward on par with rare crafted. I've completed 50 something quests in Maj Dul and almost every single quest in SS and the only difficult one I can think of is the Carpet quest.</P> <P>Furthermore, some of the quests further into the expansion (Shimmering Citadel Muse quests for one) give very nice items even though the quests are quite easy.</P> <P>Anyway...if you group, you can do the instanced zones like Scornfeather and Hidden Cache and get fabled items. There really isn't a need to quest for items unless you prefer to solo (or simply prefer to quest).</P> <P>There aren't really any quests in DoF now that warrant near rare crafted quality items.  The only solution would be new and harder item reward quests. The problem is, this would almost require a new tier of items....and I don't think SoE is ready or willing to tackle that just now.</P> <P> </P>

[armus5]

I have to agree with many here, quested items still have their place. Can't beat GEBS for a caster. There's also plenty of good jewelry pieces. The only items that beat player-made are fabled, and if you haven't noticed, theres a lot of them walking around. Only thing we need more of is master spells

[WAPCE]

I agree with the OP. It took me less than a week when DoF was first released to harvest enough cobalt and vanadium for all the armor and jewelry that I'll need (still harvesting casually for Adept III's, but at this point I only have a couple left to acquire). It would be nice if some quest rewards were an upgrade and not just 7G in my pocket. I wouldn't want an upgrade to every reward, but perhaps a couple that were Legendary quality, similar to the Legendary items that drop in some of the DoF dungeons.

[Graton]

many quests take a heck of a lot less time then harvesting for a rare. i harvest very vey often , usually for 2 to 3 hours at a time. since dof came out i've gotten an ironwood , 2 vanadium , 1 pearl and 1 cobalt.  in the same time i've completed nearly 100 dof quests. rares are not what they used to be which was basically fabled harvested items. they were so insanely rare in tier 5 there was simply no fun to it. at least now you feel like there's a chance when you're out doing it. i used quested items in several slots and have several more saved for use as resist gear. there are also some nice attainable dropped items in DOF that drop. those that put the time into harvesting in tier 5 will be rewarded but there's a lot of competition for mining nodes so i think it takes a lot longer than you are implying. <div></div>

[Fortai]

<DIV>Before the increase, it was very difficult for lower level tier 2-4 players to get a decent amount of Adept 3 spells, because the rares would never drop.  After the update, I've recieved 3 corals, 3 palladium, and 2 ruthenium, and I've harvested a lot.  I think this is about right, because there are a few spells every tier, that you should be able to upgrade to Adept 3.  Before the update, it was also very difficult for someone who is not twinking, or in a rich guild, to buy a rare to make an adept 3 in tier 4, and especially 3 and 2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Magu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Speaker wrote:<div></div><div> And some quests items should be better then legendary, here again just my opinion, it does not mean I am wrong or you are wrong... just we have different viewpoints. In the end its SOE's opinion that counts. And there are T-1 to T-5 quested items that are better then crafted, this is something that already exist, especially at the lower tiers.</div><hr></blockquote>*SOME* are, like GEBs. But the normal simple runaround/kill quests should only give treasured, like they do. As such, said quest rewards should never be better then legendary; they are far too easy to get. The thing is that many people who do the quests don't have time to harvest for hours, or the money to buy them. So the treasured gear is still useful to them.</span><div></div>

[hammong]

<P>Rares in T6 are still exceptionally rare compared to other tiers, and competition for them is fierce.   At any point in the day, you can find Sinking Sands filled with level 55-60 toons riding around on their horses and picking every rock, log, and root as soon as it spawns.  With so many "hands in the field" - it's no wonder that rares are being mined at an fast pace.   The simple fact remains, however, that these rares are being consumed almost as fast as they're obtained -- turned into armor, spells, weapons, etc. </P> <P>My necro is level 49, and I still have very few Adept III spells over level 40 due to the fact that Tier 5 rares are still very expensive on Mistmoore -- 1.5 pp is not uncommon. </P> <P> </P>

[Catharz]

I also totally disagree with Speaker on this. I've hunted in SS since level 46 (now 51), solo'd the pirates quest there countless times (have ally faction with the Court of Truth) and harvested along the beaches and cliff walls for hours while doing it.  In all that time, I've had 2 lambent stones and nothing else.  In my whole guild, a total of 3 T6 "rares" have been found.  I actually only have 1 adept 3 in my whole knowledge book (and it's a T4 encounter wide taunt from memory). By comparison, my bard found 7 rare T1 gems and 3 silver clusters while raising harvesting for DWB.  I've also made 3 palladium torques for guildies from rares I've found with my jeweler while doing PGT.  All since the recent changes to rare drop rates. As for quest results being as good?  Sure, if they're heritage quests they should be equal to rare crafted (both are legendary after all).  But IMO they're not.  Instead of nerfing the rate of rares (something that isn't required in my experience), I'd much rather see SOE improve the current heritages (like making the screaming mace and scepter dual weild so brawlers have more than 1 heritage that provides a semi-usable weapon) and perhaps add in some even more difficult quests for fabled gear.  But treasured gear should NEVER be as good as legendary. <div></div>

[Styk]

<DIV>This is from my personal perspective but IMO SoE dropped the ball when they made it easier to harvest rares.... SO many loopholes now its not evenfunny, you want a better shot at rares, when your friends are AFK ask them to group with you when your harvesting, most of my guild inc myself have noticed a much better shot at getting rares when grouped then solo.... You put a 8 hour rare grind by harvesting on the orc road.... 7-10 times you will come away with at least 2 rares ( best record to date is 5 cobalt, 3 vanadium , 4 pearls and 2 lambent in an 8 hours stretch ) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess in SoE's desire for the casual base to get equal rewards as hardcores do ( remember this is my opinion no need to flame it just respect the fact that its what I BELIEVE IN ) they totally removed risk vs reward in this game.... Oh well its the best thing out on the market for now until next year ( we all know what is comming out next year ) also im in a great guild whom i consider really good friends now and they are what keep me going in this MMO ( this isnt an MMORPG anymore since they never really kept consistent with the roleplay aspect of it&nbsp<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So harvest away and dont fret, you will have a string of bad luck and then BOOM one day 8-12 rares ..... its a matter of time</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Styker on <span class=date_text>11-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:21 PM</span>

[FreaklyCreak]

<P>They componsated a bit for greying out zones. By making alot more things aggro that are grey AND by increaseing range in which we get EXP from killing. (I don't know how to put that better, example: level 40 stuff used to be grey to me now its green, and im level 50.) </P> <P>Something I noticed though, they made it harder in a few respects. Tiers lower then you will give more rares, less aggro, and less "nothing found". So farming lower tiers and selling the rares to BUY the ones you want has been made easier.</P> <P>I'm actually really happy about more rares in the respect of having more tanks with adept3 taunts, healers with adept3 heals buffs and wards, and other classes with there specialized spells at adept3. </P>

[Aienaa]

<P>If you recall, part of the reason for making rares a bit more common, was because the progression from Legendary to Fabled (Adept 3 to Master 1) was suposed to have much more meaning, and that the crafted versions of the items were suposed to be the "standard" equipment...</P> <P>Personally, I am glad that rares are a bit more common, especially with the whole armor nerf (equipment only good for 15 levels and after that is loses half of it's effectivness), because grinding from 50-60 has rendered all my armor virtually useless...  The T6 treasured in no way compares to the T5 crafted / Fabled gear that I was using, which means that all of it had to be upgrade (in some cases downgraded) to T6 crafted...</P> <P>I still feel that certian rares are still a bit too rare...  For example Cobalt...  I need 7 cobalt for armor and another 6 for weapons, for a total of 13 and to include my other character, that would be a total of 26 Cobalt needed...  But with my many many hours of harvesting per day, I have only obtained 2 through harvesting....  This may just be attributed to luck though, as I have harvested roughly 45 Vanadium/Pearls....  I have however traded the Vanadium/Pearls I have harvested to obtain the cobalt I needed for weapons and armor for my 60 Assassin and 51 Troubador...</P> <P>I do have all my 51-60 spells on my Assassin and the majority of my useless T5 armor has been replaced with T6 crafted, and I have a pieces of T6 crafted jewelry...  My 51 Troubador on the other hand, has had the majority of her Jewelry replaced with T6 crafted, but still only has 3 pieces of Cobalt armor and is lacking the necessary Cobalt weapons (currently only has 1 Cobalt weapon)....</P> <P>Taking into light that T5 armor and weapons were rendered useless by the expansion, I am really happy and gratefull hat they upped the drop rates of the rares allowing people to get back to, or close to where they were before the expansion came out (even though it has taken many many hours of harvesting just to come close)...</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 60 Assassin  /  Parody - 51 Troubador</P>