Whacky Suggestion: Item Discovery Vendors [Archive]

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Goldenpaw

10-31-2005, 09:35 PM

<DIV>Ahhh I'm bored, and tired of reading about SOGA <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So I offer the following for your mind to devour :smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> As I sit here waiting on my router guy to finish his configuration so I can continue with our new network, I thought what better time to shoot something out that a friend and I had discussed as a way to “control” the economy. This may not be the most popular suggestion of all times, but one that may work to both absorb a lot of money, and further the people who do not want to, or are unable to raid. This would also require a GM / Economist to be hired, as it would require world interaction. If a sole person was not hired to do this, I do not think it would work. There is simply no way to set this once and forget it (to do it right). Ready? Here we go <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> A new breed of vendors for Qeynos / Freeport / Maj'Dul. They are called the Discovery vendors. Once an item in the world has been discovered it goes on for sale at the appropriate vendor. Hear me out <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I’m out fighting, and boom I get a new item, called “Sing Adept (1)”, the item is then put up for Sale on the Bard Spell Vendor for 20 (just throwing that number out, it would need to be adjusted per server) times what the buy back amount is. So that level 50 – 60 spell is now able to be bought by anyone, at 80 gold. (20 x 4g) Or I could go look on the broker and hope to get it cheaper than that. That is an over the top amount of money to be charged, but if you think about it, if you really wanted to have this item, you could go to the vendor, get charged a plethora of money and it is now a money sink (Bonus for SOE), and you get the item you need (Bonus for you). Additionally, I would like to state that the vendor would have some sort of like subheading, so you would see the item for sale, and the “Discovered By: Moogooguypan” Now the person who found it would have a bit of credit to his name, and people everywhere would have the option to spend a lot of money for the item they would like, instead of waiting for it to show up on vendor. The problem comes in with fabled gear, because I know a lot of people would be up in arms about even being able to purchased fabled, but if they adjusted the buy back correctly to say 2p for the chest piece, if -anyone- else wanted that item it would now cost them 40pp for it if they went to the vendor. The price would have to be acceptable enough that people want to purchase it for, but not so cheap as to make other people who find it in treasure drops, unable to sell it for considerable profit. What about the rares? It is the same, they should have a suitable buy back amount so that when multiplied if I didn’t want to harvest a pearl, I could go purchase a rare at say 3.5pp (they sell for 3pp on Najena's Broker). This would give SOE the opportunity to control the economy. They could curve high prices on items, or they could flood the market with things they felt should be freely available. It is an alternative to the broker, while giving everyone the ability to own a piece of the pie, and being a huge money sink. Rip it apart, or add something to it, if you’d like <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> like I said, I'm bored. Goldentale</DIV>

Goldenpaw

10-31-2005, 09:43 PM

Hehehe just thought about a negative, twinking would reach an all time high...

Deadly Nightshadow

10-31-2005, 10:17 PM

People would quickly realise that it's an SOE project to get money out of the economy. Hehe I don't see many people using those goblins anymore.......Bloody goblins bringing my cash down to 3s *mumble*........Never going to use those goblins again. See what I mean?

Dazzler_Twodir

10-31-2005, 10:34 PM

People would just start charging closer to the 4 x amount that vendor did. People are greedy that would destroy the economy of many servers.

Goldenpaw

10-31-2005, 10:38 PM

No argument there about the greed, that is why I was thinking if they hired someone in they could actually adjust for inflation <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> They have no way to adjust "interest" rates in this game, this would be one way for them to do it though. If Pearls on your server used to sell at say 1.5pp, and after this they sell for 2.5, they could just adjust that number so that the vendor started selling them for 1.75pp and adjust it quarterly for inflation <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And I also agree people would see it as a money sink, maybe too big of a money sink for it to even float.

Dasein

10-31-2005, 11:10 PM

Pearls have a no-value tag, so they have no sell back price to calculate against. Crafted rare items only sell for a few gold to brokers, because the price is based on the crafting components alone, not the value of the item to a plater. I see no reason SOE should take any sort of a more hands-on approach to the economy. Let market forces dictate prices.

Goldenpaw

10-31-2005, 11:36 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Caswydian wrote: Pearls have a no-value tag, so they have no sell back price to calculate against. Crafted rare items only sell for a few gold to brokers, because the price is based on the crafting components alone, not the value of the item to a plater. I see no reason SOE should take any sort of a more hands-on approach to the economy. Let market forces dictate prices. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Caswydian I completely value your opinion on this, what I was thinking was this would give opportunity for SOE to make a "worthwhile" money sink, instead of gimpy gaming goblin, and horses / houses. The by product could be that they could control inflation. Pearls and all no-value items could very very easily be adjusted with a vendor purchase price, not that anyone in the their right mind would sell them to a vendor, but I mean from a SQL stand point they are more than likely just valued at 0, and the code just says replace 0 with no_value. It would take a DB Admin not very much time to simply Query where buy_back = 0, and then go in and adjust that number to give it a price. Trying to come up with a valuable money sink <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> There really is nothing to buy in this game as it stands, I remember saving up for 2 years in UO playing solo, to be able to finally purchase a tower, not that I could place it anywhere because Lag Soup (Lake Superior) was too full of housing to do anything with my tower hehe. But at least it was a long term goal, here I have nothing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I'd like to buy a boat, but there is nothing on the horizon about boats.

Dasein

11-01-2005, 12:31 AM

<DIV> <HR> Caswydian I completely value your opinion on this, what I was thinking was this would give opportunity for SOE to make a "worthwhile" money sink, instead of gimpy gaming goblin, and horses / houses. The by product could be that they could control inflation. <HR> </DIV> The thing is, these won't become worthwhile money sinks because inflation will simply be adjusted to keep up with the new prices. What we need to look at is what is the average income and what percantage of that income is an Adept 1 spell? An Adept III? A rare crafted weapon or piece of armor or jewlery? Now, what SOE controls is the drop rate, that is the supply. If they want to increase the ratio, they decrease supply, causing prices to increase. This way, SOE can implement gradual changes in the economy and slowly remove cash from the game. SOE can also adjust repeatable quest timers. If a repeatable quest that pays 3g can be done every half hour and SOE changes it to be do-able every hour, they've effectively reduced income from that quest in half. Now, grinding these quests is a common way to get some extra cash, as they have predictable rewards and are usually easy to complete. In essence, quests like these provide a good measure of player income. So, SOE has two methods at its disposal to manage the economy - supply and cash flow. SOE can also manipulate demand, but not as easily, as manipulating demand tends to mean making certain items more desirable, which causes balance issues, so it is not a particularly good way to manage the economy, but it can be used in specific instances for things like horses or housing. What SOE should not be doing is fixing prices, as that nullifies any other control SOE might have over the economy. If all the items are available from this broker, then supply is worthless, as I can buy any spell or other item I need so long as it has been discovered and I can afford it. It also means that controls on the amount of cash entering the game cannot be used as the price of goods is now static and so too must the cash flow be static to compensate as the price cannot adjust to what people can spend. Further, SOE has to actually set the price on each item, which is almost impossible to do in a meaningful way. How much should a ruby sell for? Should a pearl sell for more? This creates far more work for SOE while providing less real control over the economy.

TheyLi

11-01-2005, 01:14 AM

This would be a very bad idea, because allowing players to purchase fabled & rare items from a NPC vendor, would only encourage sad, pathetic losers to illegally buy more plat from certain auction sites, so they could twink out every character in full fabled & legendary with zero effort. At least the way it is now, you have to go harvest or raid to get specific things you want. The changes you're proposing would ruin the game as anyone willing to swipe a credit card would have full fabled gear, thereby eliminating any sense of fairness & balance in the game and encouraging others to cheat to compete. On a related note, the changes you're suggesting already exist on the Station Exchange servers, people there can pay RL money for specific items, so rather than mess up the game, lets just encourage people who want to be able to buy everything to transfer there.Message Edited by TheyLive on 10-31-2005 12:23 PM

Goldenpaw

11-01-2005, 02:19 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheyLive wrote: This would be a very bad idea, because allowing players to purchase fabled & rare items from a NPC vendor, would only encourage sad, pathetic losers to illegally buy more plat from certain auction sites, so they could twink out every character in full fabled & legendary with zero effort. At least the way it is now, you have to go harvest or raid to get specific things you want. The changes you're proposing would ruin the game as anyone willing to swipe a credit card would have full fabled gear, thereby eliminating any sense of fairness & balance in the game and encouraging others to cheat to compete. On a related note, the changes you're suggesting already exist on the Station Exchange servers, people there can pay RL money for specific items, so rather than mess up the game, lets just encourage people who want to be able to buy everything to transfer there. Message Edited by TheyLive on 10-31-2005 12:23 PM <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Well put on the first paragraph. I suppose this in and of itself is pretty much a reason to not to do this. Which is sad because of the fact they could stop the cheating if they wanted to, or at least minimize it, but that would take a proactive stance which they definetly are not willing to do. On the second statement, I'd tend to disagree because there you are doing as you said, pay RL money for specific items, and you are also stating that you can buy anything you want on the exchange server. While I have no character on the exchange servers, if I wanted to buy "The Dookey Shirt" for my Dirge, and there isnt one available then I can't buy it. In addition you are talking about RL money, where I am talking about Plat, which there is NOTHING to use it on, and I earned mine no purchasing. I'm giving mine away, what else is there to do with it? <DIV>But circling back to your first paragraph, you are absolutely right, and I think this wouldn't work now with that thought.</DIV>

Magu

11-01-2005, 02:32 AM

This idea is horrible. It completely defeats the idea of a free market. <div></div>

SavinDwa

11-01-2005, 02:38 AM

Goldenpaw, The financial side of your suggestion is what would kill it. I assume the person would need to be relatively smart otherwise it would turn into a nightmare. A yound full time perrson capable of making intelligent decisions about the economy probably needs pretty good training in finance and economics. Lets say that this would cost at least $60k plus benefits per year. Add overhead and stuff and you are talking about a minimum of $85k per year per server. If you add a supervisor group and a bit of coding to support these people youa re probably looking at a fully loaded cost of about $10k per server per month. If there are 10,000 paying customers on a server that is $1 per customer per month, with no profit margin. So .. would you be willing to pay an extra $1 per month to be on a server with a Economics GM trying to manage the economy?

Goldenpaw

11-01-2005, 02:47 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SavinDwarf wrote: Goldenpaw, The financial side of your suggestion is what would kill it. I assume the person would need to be relatively smart otherwise it would turn into a nightmare. A yound full time perrson capable of making intelligent decisions about the economy probably needs pretty good training in finance and economics. Lets say that this would cost at least $60k plus benefits per year. Add overhead and stuff and you are talking about a minimum of $85k per year per server. If you add a supervisor group and a bit of coding to support these people youa re probably looking at a fully loaded cost of about $10k per server per month. If there are 10,000 paying customers on a server that is $1 per customer per month, with no profit margin. So .. would you be willing to pay an extra $1 per month to be on a server with a Economics GM trying to manage the economy? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Hehehe well I played on the Legends server, I payed the additional what was it 24.95 for dynamic content. I'd be willing to shell out $50 a month for a server with live events, monitoring for the well known hacks / cheats, GM's who can answer questions and fix problems -caused- by a bug, and someone to watch the economy to make it where a level 1 character coming into the game a year late would still have the ability to buy what he needs paying roughly the same as someone did a year before (with inflation still kept in mind and adjusted for). Yes i'm stupid enough to spend a dollar more <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but as others have stated there are just too many negatives. But that was extremely well put SavinDwarf <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Dazzler_Twodir

11-01-2005, 08:00 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Goldenpaw wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SavinDwarf wrote: Goldenpaw, The financial side of your suggestion is what would kill it. I assume the person would need to be relatively smart otherwise it would turn into a nightmare. A yound full time perrson capable of making intelligent decisions about the economy probably needs pretty good training in finance and economics. Lets say that this would cost at least $60k plus benefits per year. Add overhead and stuff and you are talking about a minimum of $85k per year per server. If you add a supervisor group and a bit of coding to support these people youa re probably looking at a fully loaded cost of about $10k per server per month. If there are 10,000 paying customers on a server that is $1 per customer per month, with no profit margin. So .. would you be willing to pay an extra $1 per month to be on a server with a Economics GM trying to manage the economy? <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Hehehe well I played on the Legends server, I payed the additional what was it 24.95 for dynamic content. I'd be willing to shell out $50 a month for a server with live events, monitoring for the well known hacks / cheats, GM's who can answer questions and fix problems -caused- by a bug, and someone to watch the economy to make it where a level 1 character coming into the game a year late would still have the ability to buy what he needs paying roughly the same as someone did a year before (with inflation still kept in mind and adjusted for). Yes i'm stupid enough to spend a dollar more <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but as others have stated there are just too many negatives. But that was extremely well put SavinDwarf <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> Heh if you were on Mistmoore i'de stick my hand out so i could finance my carpentry without dealing with the hassle of harvesting.