Cleric = Druid?

[Yaotzi]

So judging by the patch notes druids are now just as effective as clerics? So..what's the point of being a cleric then? <div></div>

[kr8ztwin]

mitigation?  buffs?  different playstyles? :robottongue:

[Shamantukk]

<P>So you, as a Cleric, can moan and groan about not being the only logical healing choice any more? :smileyhappy:</P> <P>By the way, my main is a Templar.</P>

[Daish]

<P>I think the OP's main point was more to the effect of....</P> <P>[Removed for Content] did SOE come up with that big huge 'this is how the healers are different' list during the combat revamp?</P> <P>If Druids all cast faster than clerics...  but now all heal for as much dmg as clerics...   doesnt that now mean that whatever was considered 'balance' during the combat revamp just got thrown out with the trash?</P> <P>Don't get me wrong, I think that druids needed some more healing power, but once again, SOE is playing with one aspect of the game in complete ignorance with how it will affect the rest of the game.  Next they will be giving druids the dps of bruisers.....</P>

[Finduillas]

<P>I dont even understand how they mathematically approximated equality, as a regen heals discrete amounts over time and a Reactive heals on a per-hit basis- I dont know how they can say they have "equal" numbers, as there are circumstantial variables involved.</P> <P> </P> <P>it is really an odd claim to make.  Too bad I cant test it until it gets live as all my character slots are full <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Arielle Nightshade]

<DIV>I don't think the result is going to have druids healing 'better' than clerics - but will give us a bit more front-end healing 'oomph' than we have now, and is..in the case of Wardens at least...really needed.   Faster casting does not mean bigger heals..at this point it just adds up to a different play style.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gcha]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Finduillas wrote:<BR> <P>I dont even understand how they mathematically approximated equality, as a regen heals discrete amounts over time and a Reactive heals on a per-hit basis- I dont know how they can say they have "equal" numbers, as there are circumstantial variables involved.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Precisely.  Druids now are not equal healers, they are clearly superior, since reactives don't heal unless one is being attacked.<BR>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>Clerics barely buff mitigation.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why the hell would a group want a Cleric now, our group reactive can heal the whole group once and the 2 people once more if 2 AEs hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Druid group regen now ticks the same amount a heal as much as a Cleric reactive....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So 8 heals of 300 for the group from Cleric.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or druid 300 heal every 2 seconds on the whole group for ages....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Umm amount healed disparity.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whats the point in being a Cleric now, we just bring to groups a little thing that Shammy or Druid can do, they bring what we do and so much more.</DIV>

[Formangenavn]

<P>To the Templars here, plz read up on the reasons why Wardens wanted increased healing before flaming it. Warden boards are full of info for you. If you however feel that Clerics should heal better then druids, then I am sorry, we will never agree.</P> <P>Also, this is not on live and is not the solution we originally wanted (if it is a solution at all)</P>

[Gcha]

<P>We don't have to heal better than wardens, but we also don't want wardens to heal better than us, as they will with this update.</P> <P>And, we'd kind of like to do SOMETHING better than SOMEBODY.</P>

[Landiin]

I feel for you guys<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Welcome to the world of the plate tank.

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>We dont want to be superior over everyone else, but Druids have now been given the healing amounts of Clerics but they have the fastest recast times, fastest cast times and their group HoTs hit everyone in the group every 2 seconds for the power of a Cleric reactive. Reactives can only heal when the person is hit... so if a nasty AE hits the group for 1k they all get a 300 heal and then nothing, theres only 3 charges left, so many 3 of the group can get healed again or maybe they will be used up elsewhere, whereas a Druid HoT will now heal the group for 300 every 2 seconds regardless of whether they are attacked... hello Im overpowered now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So umm why would you want a Cleric now Druids are clearly superior.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Daish]

<P>Whatever process SOE had to come up with the plan to 'balance' healers.....</P> <P>They just threw that all out the window, mabye this is why SOE is not really posting anything about what thier plans are for the game, because they havent come up with one yet....</P> <P>What is worrisome... is after this they will probably be 'revamping' tanks...  and then revamping mages....  and then, they still need to finish revamping the mobs...</P> <P>Does this ever end, or am I supposed to pay for beta?</P>

[Kyuven]

easy solution would be to make cleric reactive heals duration based rather than charge based <div></div>

[Mogcha]

Ummmm Just fyi, the cleric reactive heal is for 20 seconds.  That may sound like alot of time, but it isn't when you get into a real fight. <div></div>

[Maelakai]

<DIV>I'd ask that you please stop grouping Wardens and Furys in the same 'Druid' pile.  The fury class was well built, well structured and in very little need of fixes.  The warden class has been gimped since the revamp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Our minor/arch direct heal lines are on a 50/50 direct/regen split, possibly even lower than that... which means that we can't deliver healing when the tank needs it.  It is this disparity that we have been complaining about since LU13.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The 'druid' grouping has been concerned about how HoTs do not scale to incoming damage... this is the issue they seem to be trying to fix by upping the tick amounts on HoTs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is all fine and good, but it still doesn't help the wardens deal with spike/burst damage, nor does it offer us any fixes to glaring discrepencies in druid class functionality (Warden vs. Fury buff/utility).  This is most evident in not only the lvl 50 fury spell Porcupine, but also in the 52/55/58 spell lines the fury class gets.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a cleric you can drop a direct heal that hits for 1k +, as a warden our biggest direct heal is the priest spell from the Splitpaw Saga... sure our heals COULD do equal amounts, provided all the ticks hit, and the mob doesn't mind waiting 12s while the remainder of our heal ticks on the tank before he starts hitting again...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As it stands now there is very little reason for a new druid to pick anything other than fury when they hit 20... this is what we want to see fixed more than anything.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Maelakai on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:55 AM</span>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>A reactive healing for every hit the person or group takes for 30 seconds would be preferable to 5 or 9 heals they have atm that can be used up instantly but it would be overpowered.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Against loads of mobs stacking 2 reactives on a tank they would be getting healed for 600 - 700 every hit for 30 seconds and by then u can recast.</DIV>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>You cant deal with spike dmg?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>300 every 2 sec group HoT deals with any spike dmg pretty well, pretty well better, faster and more efficently than anyone else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can stack these regens too.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So now you get instant heals that have cleric reactives power ticking every 2 sec as a secondary component....</DIV>

[Erurat]

<DIV>No bashing please, but boy do I miss the days of Everquest 1 when a Cleric was a cleric and a druid was a druid each having there own distinctive strengths.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll wait to see how the changes affect my templar before commenting or complaining but it doesn't look too promising having read what I've read in the test server patch notes.  Quite frankly I do think Templars/Inquisitors should heal more than any other class because, well they are CLERICS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I just really am getting bored with my class and this seems to only be prospectively making it worse. Lalalala</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let the flames begin.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Erurat on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:47 PM</span>

[Daish]

<P>thats a good piont, Erurat...</P> <P>In EQ1 (and most other games) classes had STRENGTHS...   OMG..  what an amazing concept....</P> <P>What we got in EQ2 is some really odd mismash of stuff that ensures no one really does anything better than anyone, nor do they have any disctinctive roles...</P> <P>Except, of course the overpowered classes that 'won' the revamp.</P> <P>SOE needs to remember that people want to play a class with strengths, a class with weaknesses, a class with some type of playstyle...   no druid would have asked to heal for as much or more than a cleric, they asked to have a chance to actually keep up when healing, but not to be the best healer, the fast healer, the best dps (fury), and the best buffs....   </P> <P>Now SOE will have to give clerics and shamans uber buffs, and make thier heals faster...   and, wait...  didnt we just do a big revamp?  sigh.</P>

[Mor]

<span><blockquote><hr>Erurat wrote:<div></div> <div>No bashing please, but boy do I miss the days of Everquest 1 when a Cleric was a cleric and a druid was a druid each having there own distinctive strengths.</div> <div> </div> <div>I'll wait to see how the changes affect my templar before commenting or complaining but it doesn't look too promising having read what I've read in the test server patch notes.  Quite frankly I do think Templars/Inquisitors should heal more than any other class because, well they are CLERICS.</div> <div> </div> <div> I just really am getting bored with my class and this seems to only be prospectively making it worse. Lalalala</div> <div> </div> <div>Let the flames begin.</div><p>Message Edited by Erurat on <span class="date_text">10-18-2005</span> <span class="time_text">12:47 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Then why are you plaing a different game if that is what you wanted?  We were all promised -- repeatedly -- that any healer could heal approximately the same in EQ2.  The Holy Trinity was gone.  If you didn't want that, then what are you doing here?  </span><div></div>

[mylin1]

And I remember from EQ1 how many droods felt gimped as healers at high lvls and wernt wanted in groups.  The goal of EQ2 was to have every priest class heal as well as the next - just using a different effect..sure this might not be all balanced etc yet but at least they are tweaking at it with this in mind. Lets not go back to the days of EQ1 requiring a cleric to do anything, it was frustrating for the other healers and frustrating for non healers who always had to play "find the cleric" Mylin 34 templar <div></div>

[Mor]

<span><blockquote><hr>AzraelAzgard wrote:<div></div> <div>You cant deal with spike dmg?</div> <div> </div> <div>300 every 2 sec group HoT deals with any spike dmg pretty well, pretty well better, faster and more efficently than anyone else.</div> <div> </div> <div>You can stack these regens too.</div> <div> </div> <div>So now you get instant heals that have cleric reactives power ticking every 2 sec as a secondary component....</div><hr></blockquote>Please take a look at the threads stickied at the top of the warden forum.  In particular <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=16&message.id=9939#M9939" target=_blank>this thread.</a> </span><div></div>

[Mor]

<span><blockquote><hr>AzraelAzgard wrote:<div>We dont want to be superior over everyone else, but Druids have now been given the healing amounts of Clerics but they have the fastest recast times, <font color="#ff99ff">Uh, no.  You can recast in 6 seconds if the going gets tough.  Our regen is still ticking away trying to do it's initial part...</font><font color="#ff99ff"> </font> Reactives can only heal when the person is hit... so if a nasty AE hits the group for 1k they all get a 300 heal and then nothing, <font color="#ff99ff">Well, first, if the group never gets hit again it isn't an issue, right?  But what we all fear is that next hit.  So if it's a really nasty AoE what is the next thing you do? Direct heal.  Always.  </font></div><div>So umm why would you want a Cleric now Druids are clearly superior. <font color="#ff99ff">Because in most situations, your group heal is all going to the main tank.  All of it.  Right now, you can out heal us 600hp <i>just in the first 8 seconds of a fight.  </i>And it gets worse from there.  The truth is templars out heal wardens by 30% and, ironically, more efficiently. Please view the threads stickied at the top of the warden forum for more info. </font></div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div>

[Meme]

<div></div>I have played every healer class in game with the exception of an inquisitor to the mid to late 20's... just long enough to get an early feel of each. However I have spoken to every single healing class since release regularly to better understand each class.  Furies and wardens have been hurting since combat revamp to the point of groups turning them down in favor of having a cleric or a shaman. SOE on release of the game said their goal was that this never be an issue, that each class be equally wanted as a healer in a group. This is not currerently the case. They are all supposed to be as capable of being a main healer. Without this test update this will never be a reality. A Fury and a Warden cannot be considered main healers. Changing what they are changing with a Fury and a Warden will hopefully equalize them in this respect. IF the Templar does not have the bells and whistles in your opinion of the Druids, then that should be addressed seperately. A healer should be capable always of being the main healer in a group. The bells and whistles can be made arguably more equal once this is achieved. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Memeep on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:36 PM</span>

[Fildren_the_Templ]

So, Fury has twice the dps of any other healer and heal like a priest... Hey that's really fair for priest ! <div></div>

[Mor]

<span><blockquote><hr>Fildren_the_Templar wrote:So, Fury has twice the dps of any other healer and heal like a priest... Hey that's really fair for priest ! <div></div><hr></blockquote>Look, no one is saying templars don't have issues.  But how does keeping wardens (in particular) by far and away the worst healers in the game help you with those issues?  Wouldn't a better way to deal with this be to have both templar and warden issues be addressed? </span><div></div>

[mylin1]

Once all the priests are doing their primary job as well as each other then it might be better to focus on expanding their secondary roles..damage for furies, buffs for wardens, err looking good in plate armor for templars.. On the role of templars it seems that (harking back to EQ1 days) some more anti-undead and anti-demon spells would be a reasonable inclusion into the templars spell list.  I know that a few of our smites do extra damage to undead targets but its not many and its not a lot.  I always thought of a templar as a companion to the paladin, both crusading against the undead/demonic forces of the world. Mylin <div></div>

[Fildren_the_Templ]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr><span>  Wouldn't a better way to deal with this be to have both templar and warden issues be addressed?</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Yup that would be great, maybe the next combat change..... just 8 or 10 months to wait </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Fildren_the_Templar on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:06 PM</span>

[Gwide]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mylin1 wrote:<BR>Once all the priests are doing their primary job as well as each other then it might be better to focus on expanding their secondary roles..damage for furies, buffs for wardens, err looking good in plate armor for templars..<BR><BR>On the role of templars it seems that (harking back to EQ1 days) some more anti-undead and anti-demon spells would be a reasonable inclusion into the templars spell list.  I know that a few of our smites do extra damage to undead targets but its not many and its not a lot.  I always thought of a templar as a companion to the paladin, both crusading against the undead/demonic forces of the world.<BR><BR>Mylin<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I don't think mob specific abilities should be the balancing factor because it depends too much on content.  When populating an expansion, it is often overlooked to put xx% of this type of mob into a zone.  Getting a demon nuke and then having the next expansion be centered around dragons, aliens, or giants would be aggravating.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm all for healer balance; I think those who wanted to be primarily a healer, should be interchangable.  I can't say if the current patch on test brings it closer or causes new imbalances (no judgement).</DIV>

[thepriz]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Finduillas wrote:<p>I dont even understand how they mathematically approximated equality, as a regen heals discrete amounts over time and a Reactive heals on a per-hit basis- I dont know how they can say they have "equal" numbers, as there are circumstantial variables involved.</p> <p>it is really an odd claim to make.  Too bad I cant test it until it gets live as all my character slots are full <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>You don't have to have any character slots left on the live servers. The test servers you get 6 more slots to make characters. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Look at the top of the this forum to find instructions on how to set up your test characters.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by thepriz on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:20 PM</span>

[Code2501]

<P>I dont really know the details of the 'extra dmge to undead' type spells but i think since about 1/4 of all mobs are undead this constitutes somewhat of an advantage. Druids get 'extra damage to elementals' spells.. and I can tell you, even when you find someting you think is an elemental... it's not apearantly [bugged spell]. </P> <P>How much easier is it to get destroyer of undead title than destroyer of elementals. Am I crying about this, no. Its the flavour of Clerics to have more undeath specific strengths. This is a clasical example where flavour does not equate to "we are supose to heal the best" garbage.</P>

[Kyuven]

<span><blockquote><hr>Mogchant wrote:Ummmm Just fyi, the cleric reactive heal is for 20 seconds.  That may sound like alot of time, but it isn't when you get into a real fight. <div></div><hr></blockquote>which goes faster: 20 seconds or 5 hits usually?</span><div></div>

[AzraelAzgard]

<P>Recast of 6 seconds yes, for our smallest heals.</P> <P>Wow we can instant grp heal after an AE, for a max of 1k, I wish AEs were that small, a Warden can HoT now for 300 every 2 seconds on all and group instant heal too.</P> <P> </P> <P>Our cast times are the longest and our avoidance the lowest, if anything is touching us in the slightest its interrupt the game.</P> <P> </P> <P>I dont want Wardens nerfed I want us all to be equal but this change to basically give Wardens cleric reactive power HoTs will push you over equal and into superior. Wardens need to be increased but this increase needs to be toned down.</P>

[MrHell]

<div></div>Wow, this is a real kick in the teeth for all clerics. What we lacked in DPS was made up for in slightly better heals. Now we lose the advantage in healing... Clerics really need to be rebalanced in response. Some quick thoughts: - Unlimited duration reactives (or at least very long: eg 1min) - Faster cast times on reactives, especially group. - Do group regens affect each member of the group? ie, is each member of the group healed each tick? If so then group reactives should individually affect each member of the group (so each member can have the group reactive fire 9 times, or even 5 times). - Might as well up our DPS while you are at it. A high damage nuke wouldnt be bad. As a 50 Inquisitor my biggest nuke is ~230pts. I usually dont complain and can live with our low DPS but this is surely a joke. - D <div></div><p>Message Edited by MrHell on <span class=date_text>10-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:06 PM</span>

[kcirrot]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fildren_the_Templar wrote:<BR>So, Fury has twice the dps of any other healer and heal like a priest... Hey that's really fair for priest !<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Where did you get that from?  Furies have the highest burst damage, but DPS is only slightly above wardens and not that far above the other healers. 

[LokiHellsson]

Fury has DPS, group invis and mega-buffs. Now, with new and improved healing, why would anyone want to play any priest except a Fury? Maybe for the same reason Anne Bancroft goes across the arctic on skis instead of skidoo's? For the pointless challenge of it?

[Code2501]

<P>Yay!! </P> <P>More spite filled vitriol to prove that clerics simply can't comunicate effectively.</P> <P>Guys 'n Gals, get your act together. If you have a problem with your class, then put it in a clear and polite post apropriately titled and avoid calling for nerfs and be constructive rather than negative and maybe a miracle will happen and your problem will be addressed.</P> <P>On the other hand, if you dont know what your problem is (or dont have one and froth at the mouth for the fun of it) then please dont expect the Devs to read your minds, or even read your garbage laden posts. I for one would much prefer the Devs spent their time fixing issues that are clearly comunicated by the comunity than waste time trying to get some meaning from i'll written, venomous posts such as we have here.</P> <P> </P> <P>Thanks, have great day  :smileyhappy:</P>

[Kyuven]

<span><blockquote><hr>Code2501 wrote:<p>Yay!! </p> <p>More spite filled vitriol to prove that clerics simply can't comunicate effectively.</p> <p>Guys 'n Gals, get your act together. If you have a problem with your class, then put it in a clear and polite post apropriately titled and avoid calling for nerfs and be constructive rather than negative and maybe a miracle will happen and your problem will be addressed.</p> <p>On the other hand, if you dont know what your problem is (or dont have one and froth at the mouth for the fun of it) then please dont expect the Devs to read your minds, or even read your garbage laden posts. I for one would much prefer the Devs spent their time fixing issues that are clearly comunicated by the comunity than waste time trying to get some meaning from i'll written, venomous posts such as we have here.</p> <p>Thanks, have great day  :smileyhappy:</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>statistically clerics outnumber all other priest classes, so they APPEAR to be whinier</span><div></div>

[Code2501]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>statistically clerics outnumber all other priest classes, so they APPEAR to be whinier</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>I think whinier is a bit of a baited word, but they do appear to have issues communicating.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As an aside, if they outnumber other priest classes that that maybe says something about ballance issues other priest classes have been commenting on, no?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe you guys need to put your heads together and suggest some flavour that the Devs could implement instead of 'commenting' on what other classes get hmm? I know its a different game type but old dnd type clerics could turn undead (fear/destroy) or for the evil clerics they could charm-turn undead. As i stated earlier, undead constitute, and likely will continue to, a sizable percetage of all the content in the game, so this is not a small advantage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[mylin1]

<div></div><p>I guess as stated before the extra damage to undead (I'm not sure if its all our smite spells) is a useful bonus but it wont help against non undead mobs, sure there are heaps about but look at the high end zones, most don’t appear undead heavy at all. (below 50, I have no idea what DoF zones are like)What I would like for my templar is a niche to fill, not talking about being the best at healing at all, I strongly agree that all priests should heal the same, that way we can have a class that develops outside the "you heal so you do nothing else" of EQ1To mean templars need some focus outside of healing that is attractive to a % of the population to play..people play furies because they do some dps and get some good buffs etc, they play warders to get that druid feel, and for some interesting shapeshifting and nature spells ..but i cant see what a templar is outside of a healer..they dont seem to have the depth of the other priests...I love playing dress up in metal armor but that doesn’t add a heck of a lot to the class.</p><p>Mylin</p><p><!-- [if !supportEmptyParas] --> <!-- [endif] --></p><p><!-- [if !supportEmptyParas] --> <!-- [endif] --></p><div></div>

[Code2501]

<P>What would make you feel a bit tastier as a cleric then Mylin1? I don't play the class so I can only give so much in the way of suggestion. </P> <P>Your right that a Vs. undead flavour does not help against non undead, but its more usefull than vs most other mob types. </P> <P>In terms of undead there are the standard lower tier zones plus... </P> <P>Feerott has some skellies, Bloodlines revolves around vampires(one whole adventure pack on undead), Splitpaw features a fair number of undead in most zones... as for 50+ DoF features much undead both in Siking Sands and huge zones like Living Tombs / Silent City.</P> <P>The old world high lvl zones are a bit undead sparse (Everfrost & Lavastorm) but overall undead are a standard feature of life for Norrath.</P> <P>That being established, having inquisitors be able to charm/mez undead or have templars fear undead would constitute more than just fluff and are rather reasonable flavour utility for the classes. As to weather this is enough i can not say, that is for those who play the class to say.</P> <P> </P> <P>Can you see where i'm going with this though guys... if you think Clerics lack something then tell the devs what it is and make suggestions. You may be surprised where civil debate can lead you.</P>

[Cowdenic]

<P>With these changes, I need to roll a Fury, because if their Group HoT's heal for as much as a Group Reactive (which gets 9 tics) but the Hot gets 36 ticks for the same cost then my ability to heal like just went to zero. </P> <P>So now druids are able to cast heals faster, heal for just as much per tic but have factors more tics then us, have the best efficeincy, have the best DPS, and have the best recast timers.</P> <P>Well at least I have my Heavy armor and have Mitigation broke still. WOW. At least I get to play my favorite game, it is like Duck Duck Goose, it is called Fizzle Fizzle Interrupt. </P> <P>Please somebody give me ONE aspect that Templars are better or equal to  Druids. Just one. Give me a reason to keep my 54 Templar in the game. </P> <P>You know, I dont even know sometimes why I bother. SoE is going to do whatever they want and it seems to me like they dont really care about equality in the archtype. I could maybe deal with the CU afterwards even though Templars lost so much. My guild had me almost convinced to keep my account open. After seeing this though, why bother.</P> <P>You want to make healing equal. I have a way. Dont nerf Druids. Make all Cleric heals 1 sec casts or less with no recast timer. Make our Reactives be able to pop  as many tics as the regens get especially the group ones here. If the group regen gets 6 tics then our group Reactive should proc 36 times to make it equal. Make it so that we get the efficiency of the druid classes, oh and I sure would love some work done to our buffs like Furies got, I personally like that INT STR Grp buff they have. Oh and can I please get the DPS and Nukes of Furies. That would be lovely. </P> <P>Well SoE, 2 days and a 54 Templar is gone. I thought  maybe you would possibly do soemthing to effect Templars, I hoped for it. Congratulations, You did. Every last one of them will Roll Furies. Well maybe not all of them, but most will at least of those people that do not quit outright. Great job. </P>

[VampiressAnn]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=26626" target=top><SPAN>Fildren_the_Templar</SPAN></A>  wrote:<BR></DIV> <DIV>So, Fury has twice the dps of any other healer and heal like a priest... Hey that's really fair for priest !<BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also remember that furies can only wear light armor, there for they need the extra damage, if furies could wear nice plate armor like some of the other healing classes,  then more damage might be an issue, but its not.. since fury is running around in light armor with much lower mitigation etc...</DIV>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VampiressAnn wrote:<BR> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=26626" target=top><SPAN>Fildren_the_Templar</SPAN></A>  wrote:<BR></DIV> <DIV>So, Fury has twice the dps of any other healer and heal like a priest... Hey that's really fair for priest !<BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also remember that furies can only wear light armor, there for they need the extra damage, if furies could wear nice plate armor like some of the other healing classes,  then more damage might be an issue, but its not.. since fury is running around in light armor with much lower mitigation etc...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You mean nice broken Heavy armor that doesnt Mitigate correctly? OK.and i like the 6x better group specialty heal. NICE.

[VampiressAnn]

<DIV>look bottom line:</DIV> <DIV>at the current state of healing by a fury my big heal is only doing a little over 600 at level 52... that is horrid..</DIV> <DIV>they needed to raise the healing... why even be clasified as healer if you cant heal over 600 with your main heal..and i am in full legendary tier 6 armor and jewerly. with tons of wisdom .. and adept 3's.. i can not keep a tank alive, the shaman in the same party with me the other nite healed for 1000 hp with his main heal that is 400hp more than mine... that is insane... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also set their and watched him take hits way better than me, because he was in heavier armor than me..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i just dont understand why everyone has to come to these boards and start bashing all the changes they do...and crying about how supposedly uber furies are going to be...if your not a fury then you have no idea how they play..so how would you know they are going to be so much better than you... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if you dont like your "broken plate armor" and it is as bad as you say it is..,    wear light or medium armor, you have the choice to wear it right ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You will still get just as many groups as you always have, especially if you are in a guild.. furies are not going to be taking your groups away.. all healers serve a purpose. and we all have good and bad points about, no one is better than anyone else..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>answer me this... lets say you are in a group with a fury and the fight gets intense and you draw aggro ? and you cant heal yourself because the mob is beating you down... wouldnt it be nice to have that secondary healer the fury there to actually be able to heal you and keep you alive until the tank can get the hate off of you ? how can giving a healer more heal be a bad thing ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> VampiressAnn wrote:<BR> <DIV>look bottom line:</DIV> <DIV>at the current state of healing by a fury my big heal is only doing a little over 600 at level 52... that is horrid..</DIV> <DIV>they needed to raise the healing... why even be clasified as healer if you cant heal over 600 with your main heal..and i am in full legendary tier 6 armor and jewerly. with tons of wisdom .. and adept 3's.. i can not keep a tank alive, the shaman in the same party with me the other nite healed for 1000 hp with his main heal that is 400hp more than mine... that is insane... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>also set their and watched him take hits way better than me, because he was in heavier armor than me..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i just dont understand why everyone has to come to these boards and start bashing all the changes they do...and crying about how supposedly uber furies are going to be...if your not a fury then you have no idea how they play..so how would you know they are going to be so much better than you... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if you dont like your "broken plate armor" and it is as bad as you say it is..,    wear light or medium armor, you have the choice to wear it right ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You will still get just as many groups as you always have, especially if you are in a guild.. furies are not going to be taking your groups away.. all healers serve a purpose. and we all have good and bad points about, no one is better than anyone else..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>answer me this... lets say you are in a group with a fury and the fight gets intense and you draw aggro ? and you cant heal yourself because the mob is beating you down... wouldnt it be nice to have that secondary healer the fury there to actually be able to heal you and keep you alive until the tank can get the hate off of you ? how can giving a healer more heal be a bad thing ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>NO. Why? Because if my group specialty heal heals for 3600 and yours heals for 14k, I will never be in a group, it will be warden and fury. <DIV>Because healers are already unbalanced in the solo game away from clerics, and now this will make it even more unbalanced in the group game.</DIV> <DIV>The Cleric classes are about to go the way of the dinosaur.</DIV>

[VampiressAnn]

<P>i dont think you have to worry about going the way of the dinosaurs over this... its not that big of a change... and i see very little druids compared to other healing classes.. at least on my server anyway.. in my guild which has alot of high level members there are only two furies and one warden... most are clerics..</P> <P> </P> <P>i know you guys have issues.. the temps in my guild talk about the issues with your class... all i am trying to say is ... dont get upset because they are finally fixing one class... the druids... i am sure they will fix and do some work on the clerics also.. and if they dont then i dont blame you for being upset.. i was upset when they took my heal away after the combat revamp..</P> <P>one thing is for sure... never expect any class to stay the same forever as long as your playing eq2.. because as time has shown us.. and i have been playing since release day.. they do drastic changes to this game.. constantly.. </P> <P> </P> <P>so you can bet there are going to be changes to templars coming real soon... hang in there. it will get better</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by VampiressAnn on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:25 PM</span>

[Formangenavn]

<DIV>This is what Cow does, he complains on the boards when someone else gets something he does'nt. Even you Cow must see that grp HoT is distributed among everyone in the party while grp reactive can be used all up by tank. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How many times does your grp whipe because of aoe damage compared to how many times you need to keep your grp reactive on tank to prevent him from dying? Be honest now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If this goes live, your grp reactive will STILL be more effective at healing on person then ours, its a tradeoff</DIV>

[Cowdenic]

UHM 14.4k vs. 3.6k. grp healing, thats all I have to say. and the worst part, your grp heal is cheaper.

[Kayle]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Formangenavn wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> its a tradeoff</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Can I please trade my 60 Templar for your 60 Druid then? </DIV>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaylena wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Formangenavn wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> its a tradeoff</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Can I please trade my 60 Templar for your 60 Druid then? </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Heck I would trade a 54 Templar for a 40 Fury. </P> <P>That being said your post was the first to make me smile today.</P>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Formangenavn wrote:<BR> <DIV>This is what Cow does, he complains on the boards when someone else gets something he does'nt. Even you Cow must see that grp HoT is distributed among everyone in the party while grp reactive can be used all up by tank. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How many times does your grp whipe because of aoe damage compared to how many times you need to keep your grp reactive on tank to prevent him from dying? Be honest now.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If this goes live, your grp reactive will STILL be more effective at healing on person then ours, its a tradeoff</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Not trying to be a smart [expletive deleted] here, but isnt the purpose of a group heal to heal a ahmmmmmmmmmm what is the word I am looking for here,  oh yeah GROUP.</P> <P>Here is a hint for you, dont tell anybody, I dont use my group reactive in groups ( I leave it open so that our group FURY can cast their group regen) What a novel thought huh.</P> <P>Also I dont let our group tank get low enough so that I would need to use a group reactive to keep him up (thats what a solo reactive and direct heals are for). Novel Ideas huh.</P> <P> </P>

[Formangenavn]

Then you are not using your full potential. If this is the case then start looking at your own playing style instead of thinking there is something wrong with what is going to TEST.

[Code2501]

<P>No spite at all when i say this, please do leave if you feel that way Cow, your past posts testify to what you have to offer to the community and i don't think it will be missed all that much.</P> <P>I'll give you one thing Cow... yes group specialty heals are very different for druids compared to other preists. The are very definately <STRONG>situationaly</STRONG> better. They have a potential to heal much more than a group reactive, but in regular day to day playing they are used a lot less often and generaly heal for about the same, infact I have been forced to use it to keep up my main tank in regular xp groups because of the lack in my other heals.</P> <P>Fact is the druid group specialty heal uses a compleatly different mechanic to that of reactives. Group reactives(and wards) can be pooled on a single target, the group regen cannot. The group reactives heal when damage is taken, the group regen ticks if a group memebr is not at full health. So can you agree they are two different beasts?... </P> <P>Group regen is good at healing AE damage that is small and regular or medium and spaced out(due to the time it takes to tick, tick, tick, tick away). Also they can be used to add a bit more heal to the main tank.. of which only 1/6th the total heal is used. - this is very power hungry but needed soemtimes due to druid heals being to weak.</P> <P>Group reactives provide AE damage mitigation by reducing the initial hit with a heal. they then provide a few more procs to any other hits. Also Group reactives stack with solo reactives and the two can proc all their heals on the MT if he is the only one being hit, meaning the MT can take the total heal of your group reactive.</P> <P>BOTH druids and clerics get group direct heals which are best at getting the whole group out of the red. The group direct heals complement both group regen and group reactives, and in a dire situation of multiple hard AE's both group specialty and group direct heals are needed.</P> <P> </P> <P>At the end of the day, aside the fact this is not on live, you AGAIN are sh!tting bricks over something you don't have a clear understanding of. And again, posting multiple posts on the same subject will not get you what you wan't. Infact, i dont think anyone knows what you really want because you've never clearly articulated it, all you have done is froth like a rabid dog.</P>

[Formangenavn]

<P>Oh and plz read this so you have a clue why this is beeing done <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=16&message.id=9916" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=16&message.id=9916</A> </P> <P>Read what Spagma wrote a bit down on the page. PLZ try to convince all the druids here why our healing is as good as clerics right now. I dare you. </P> <P>And use numbers, your feelings are obviously colouring your objectivity.</P> <p>Message Edited by Formangenavn on <span class=date_text>10-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:35 PM</span>

[Cowdenic]

<P>here are the numbers for you</P> <P>Templar Group Reactive 9 ticks at 400 total 3600 can be pooled on one person.</P> <P>Druid Regen 5 tics plus initial on 6 people at 400 for a total of 14,400 healing only 2400 of which will go on any one person.</P> <P>Spell costs almost Identical, and this is balanced.</P> <P>Also take into account that your specialty heal is the only one that can situationally react to any damage that has already come in, where as the only way for any other class to react to damage already done is with direct heals.</P> <P>See you do not take into account, the balance in the regens was the fact that you could use them to counter damage that has already happened, nobody else can with a specialty heal. If you only needed to heal one person, you had specialty regens for it, and direct heals to fill gaps, like clerics have reactives and Direct heals to fill gaps.</P> <P>And reactives do not scale to incoming damage for the last time.</P>

[Cowdenic]

And BTW there is a lack of different spell lines timers for all healing classes, but the devs dont want us too powerful.

[Code2501]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> <P>And reactives do not scale to incoming damage for the last time.</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Unless the incoming damage hapens to come from multiple fast blows in which cast tickticktickticktick as oppose to tick..tick..tick..tick..tick..</P></DIV>

[Formangenavn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> <P>here are the numbers for you</P> <P>Templar Group Reactive 9 ticks at 400 total 3600 can be pooled on one person.</P> <P>Druid Regen 5 tics plus initial on 6 people at 400 for a total of 14,400 healing only 2400 of which will go on any one person.</P> <P>Spell costs almost Identical, and this is balanced.</P> <P>Also take into account that your specialty heal is the only one that can situationally react to any damage that has already come in, where as the only way for any other class to react to damage already done is with direct heals.</P> <P>See you do not take into account, the balance in the regens was the fact that you could use them to counter damage that has already happened, nobody else can with a specialty heal. If you only needed to heal one person, you had specialty regens for it, and direct heals to fill gaps, like clerics have reactives and Direct heals to fill gaps.</P> <P>And reactives do not scale to incoming damage for the last time.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>According to Naithik our grp HoT ticks for 6 times. The new one will have one less tick according to uppdate so thats 5 ticks total. 400*5*6=12k total or 2k on one person. Does this make you happier? Probably not, nut then again, if you where a druid you would complain how your grp heal could only heal mt for 2 k while the templars grp heal could heal for 3,6k

[Code2501]

<DIV>Ok, so how i read this... cow wants his group reactive to heal as much as a group regen might.. ok, so make your group reactive have a max of 5 ticks for each person and reduce the time it lasts for to 12 seconds and if its not used in 12 seconds make it disapear... voila, Clerics nerfed...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>get a clue Cow</DIV>

[Kyuven]

cleric reactives: 5 hits for single target, 9 for group.  this is not for each member, this is 9 hits, and the number healed is usually lower than the single target version. shaman wards: protect against a set amount of damage. these work, no complaints here except they draw aggro like a mofo druid regens: single target will regen per tick as much as cleric single target, and group will heal the ENTIRE group for a set period of time.  the cleric has to recast over and over again every 5 and 9 hits, which is usually less than the duration of a regen spell (unless you have an avoidance tank).  if the mob hits the tank hard, let's say for 2k (this happens) the cleric's heal negates...NEGATES...400 of that damage.  if the tank continues to get hit he takes more damage, but the original damage from the 2k hit is still there, AND the cleric has to recast their reactive.  If the tank gets DoT'd, each DoT hit triggers the reactive.  so, when the tank is at full, static pulse could tick off all 5-9 hits in addition to the auto attack damage.  the druid spells continue healing throughout all of this.  the druid only needs to recast every so often, and cover the tank with direct heals every so often. the only upside clerics get is bigger heals, which are again negated on plate tanks by the tap-tap-tap-tap-tap-SLAM tactics mobs can use.  our reactives can be countered, a druid's are always present. add to this, wardens typically have more wis than the average cleric, thus giving them a bigger pool of power, and furies typically have more INT, giving them more spike DPS.  templars buff the defensive stats of the group, making it so they can hold out longer, and inquisitors buff the overall DPS of the group, BUT we constantly need to recast our spells since everything EVERYTHING we cast besides direct heals, nukes, and non-damage debuffs has a set number of charges rather than a duration <div></div>

[Landiin]

<DIV>I thought I was reading a guard post for a sec.. lol</DIV>

[SnowKnight]

<P>Quick note about the armour fallacy :</P> <P>Fury's mit (Solo self buffed) : 3565 (fabled t5)</P> <P>Templar mit (Solo self buffed) : 3100 (full cobalt)</P> <DIV>Fury Avoidance (Solo self buffed) : 30%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templar Avoidance (Solo self buffed) : 11.9%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Draw your own conclusions...</DIV>

[Zahmekos]

<span><blockquote><hr>Cowdenicus wrote: <blockquote> <hr> VampiressAnn wrote: <div></div> <div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=26626" target="top"><span>Fildren_the_Templar</span></a>  wrote:</div> <div>So, Fury has twice the dps of any other healer and heal like a priest... Hey that's really fair for priest ! <hr> </div> <div> </div> <div>also remember that furies can only wear light armor, there for they need the extra damage, if furies could wear nice plate armor like some of the other healing classes,  then more damage might be an issue, but its not.. since fury is running around in light armor with much lower mitigation etc...</div> <hr> </blockquote>You mean nice broken Heavy armor that doesnt Mitigate correctly? OK.and i like the 6x better group specialty heal. NICE. <div></div><hr></blockquote>So just because plate Armor/ Mitigation is 'broken' you wanna nerf the Furys ? Wouldn't it better to let Furys as they are and fix the issues with plate Armor/ Mitigation ? What I hate more than bugs, are people who cry for nerfs <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Meiox Templer</span><div></div>

[Jhaan-Kre]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SnowKnight wrote:<BR> <P>Quick note about the armour fallacy :</P> <P>Fury's mit (Solo self buffed) : 3565 (fabled t5)</P> <P>Templar mit (Solo self buffed) : 3100 (full cobalt)</P> <DIV>Fury Avoidance (Solo self buffed) : 30%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templar Avoidance (Solo self buffed) : 11.9%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Draw your own conclusions...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>ROFL, where did you get hte fury numbers?  The avoidance is CLOSE, will change with a few stats etc.</P> <P>Tell ya what, go look at the furies mit when you wake up, K?</P> <P>Yes, we can reach 3k mit, for 36seconds, with our lvl 50 specialist spell (u know, the one where templars get there 36 urber heal...)  Our AVERAGE mit is around 1800.  And i am wearing full T5 fabled, and master 1/adept II in ALL spells as a level 60 fury.</P> <P>P.S. your avoidance blows because of the bonus' for wearing light armor..i would wear plate if i could.....</P>

[Barand]

Dont complain about imbalance in group speciality, how many times do you uses theses ? I m a 53 warden and i have never felt the use of my regen really, it has a long cast timer compare to the group heal, it cost lots of power and it is useless except if you take a large AOE and the group heal isn't sufficient. Yes it CAN heal a lot more than group reactive BUT IN FACT it heals a lot less, 95% of the times you only need to heal the MT (expect if you are in a bad group), so 95% of the time the group reactive is more efficient than the group regen. You only complain that 5% of the time it could be useful for us .... We have for the moment and even with this upgrade NO UTILITY in raid, we have no more a place in MT groups (no longer good buff), we can't debuff anything, our only utility now is to be backup heal, with the group regen perhaps in certain raid where the AOE hit everyone we will have a chance to be usefull again. Templar is still the best healer in the long run, templar still have buff that gives them a place in MT team, Templar can debuff mob. Don t turn this change in a fight between templar and warden, we have our own problems (lots of them are still here), you have yours (dont play one so i cant say and will not say anything about it), complaining about our improvment will not make templars better, and not make warden worst (hopefully devs dont take these argument into account <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  ). Go as warden have done in there forum, make constructive post about your issue, perhaps propose some solutions, compare with other classes in a correct manner and your complaint will be heard. <div></div>

[SnowKnight]

I got the numbers straight from a fury. I will have them take a screenshot for me so I can post it here if you like, when they come back online. Just because YOU dont have that mit doesnt mean others dont.

[Mew]

My thoughts (not that anyone will really listen):  Templars are no longer the top healers in the game.  They are now on par with the other healing classes.  I won't get into the Fury/Warden issue since I don't know those classes well.  I will assume that what others have written it true.  The downside now of being a Templar (I have a 43 Templar) is not that they are no longer the best at healing - its that other healing classes bring a range of nice damage or utility spells to a group.  Templars bring in a few average buffs for resists and mitigation but nothing great.  Other classes do those better.  Templars have one of the worst dps ratings in the game. Templar nukes don't hit for much and the ratio of dmg/power is pretty poor.  Now I am not saying Templars have to be the best healers in the game.  But if SOE is going to take away the one characteristic that made Templars unique then give us something else.  Either increase the dps or add some good utility spells.  <div></div>

[Jhaan-Kre]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SnowKnight wrote:<BR> I got the numbers straight from a fury. I will have them take a screenshot for me so I can post it here if you like, when they come back online. Just because YOU dont have that mit doesnt mean others dont. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well unless they are wearing all mystical armor, and have master 3's.you cant get better.  And x2 the mitigation your talking about is just stupid.  Like i said, its a 36s buff..our lvl 50 special, porcupine.  Bit of common sense would tell you that adept 3's + full fabled would be the best you can get (give or take 200-300 mit).  But hey, of course you know best.  All templars are supreme healers, and know everything about all other class' in game.</P> <P> </P> <P>So on that note, im extremely sorry your supreme healerness, i bow down to your superior knowledge and wisdom.  In the hopes that one day i can be as good as you...</P>

[Lakn]

Wow, these changes went to live today........

[Jhaan-Kre]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lakn wrote:<BR> Wow, these changes went to live today........<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Yup, and as soon as i get in game i will get some Ad3 info posted on teh boards for T6 fury regen..might even through in T5 too <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Lakn]

So how long were they "tested" ?

[Kyuven]

<span><blockquote><hr>Lakn wrote:So how long were they "tested" ? <div></div><hr></blockquote>less than 24 hrs. WTG SOE</span><div></div>

[crunchybob]

<P>This is [Removed for Content] comical. This whole discussion is absurd.</P> <P>Both sides are playing the spin game. Twist the numbers to what you want to prove.</P> <P>The fact of the matter is this, ALL priests got smacked in the CU. Instead of making us all equal to templars, they cut abilities across the board. Now they have us bickering over whatever bone they throw, distracting people from the real issue - the game is not priest friendly anymore. I don't need to obliterate yellow heroics like before the CU, but I would like to be able to solo a single blue solo con without having to constantly keep an eye out for an escape route if I get more than 1 or 2 resists, or god forbid a green con add. Nor do I want to be a poor mans wizard, spending my time in groups nuking because my heals really aren't necessary for most content, like they were before the CU, but I don't want to be captain aggro like I am now either.</P> <DIV>I do have a warden and I do have an inquisitor that I play in addition to my mystic main. Equality is not there, and this patch will not bring it there either, though it will start to close the gap. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quit whining at each other and start to work within your own class communities for change if you feel you need it. All of the cross class bickering makes you look foolish, nothing more. You're all reacting to trolls, which is exactly what they want. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The drama level on these boards should make Jerry Springer jealous.</DIV>

[Sirenta]

<span><blockquote><hr>Mewse wrote:My thoughts (not that anyone will really listen):  Templars are no longer the top healers in the game.  They are now on par with the other healing classes.  I won't get into the Fury/Warden issue since I don't know those classes well.  I will assume that what others have written it true.  The downside now of being a Templar (I have a 43 Templar) is not that they are no longer the best at healing - its that other healing classes bring a range of nice damage or utility spells to a group.  Templars bring in a few average buffs for resists and mitigation but nothing great.  Other classes do those better.  Templars have one of the worst dps ratings in the game. Templar nukes don't hit for much and the ratio of dmg/power is pretty poor.  Now I am not saying Templars have to be the best healers in the game.  But if SOE is going to take away the one characteristic that made Templars unique then give us something else.  Either increase the dps or add some good utility spells.  <div></div><hr></blockquote>Please... Read this post carefully. I don't really give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] about fury/warden now heal a lot better in DoF Zones and still heal a lot worse in older zones I do feel like the HEALING POWER now is as "balanced" as it can be. BUT how about balancing the Utility-parts and the dps parts. My 30s Fury way outdamages my 50 templar. That is ridiculous. How about giving us 1.5 times the Damage... (and don't forget the Wardens) I find it quite hilarious saying a fury needs to kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] because he wears light armour. Warden also wear light... and Utility,... hmm wait, I am just counting my buffs... oh, forgot, there are none If I solo i even have a conc Slot free to use... 2 Group Buffs and actually 2 Single Buffs what a deal, and just look at the superior things a templar can buff Mitigation,HP, Resists Ment/Div/Magic,Single HP and Weapon level and don't forget the Uber-Buff (and this is honest) a heal-proc single. All other reactive Buffs are only gatherable if you are auto-attacking grats... There should be a balancing, and i can guarantee you, no more Templar whining. Please excuse my english... </span><div></div>

[otlg]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LokiHellsson wrote:<BR>Fury has DPS, group invis and mega-buffs. Now, with new and improved healing, why would anyone want to play any priest except a Fury? <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well don't take this the wrong way, but oh my god is it funny to hear that.</P> <P>Really guys, while I feel for you, how many of you gave a rat's [Removed for Content] about Fury's when we were the worst priest class in the game?  Usually what I would have to deal with is other classes lording their superiority over me and my 'broken' Fury.  We ate sh*t for 9 months and no one but us cared.</P> <P>Do I want things to be unbalanced? No.  I want every priest of have something, so I'm not going to pass judgement and say Cleric's don't need something.  You guys have every right to have a fun rewarding class.  However, can you please, for the love of [insert your deity here] stop complaining about Furys and in effect asking for us to be nerfed.</P> <P>We never wanted anyone else nerfed, we just wanted to be brought up to par.  Please grant us the same sort of respect.</P> <P>Thanks,</P> <P>Osiri</P> <P>Lvl > 50 Fury - Oggok</P>

[LizzyB]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SnowKnight wrote:<BR> <P>Quick note about the armour fallacy :</P> <P>Fury's mit (Solo self buffed) : 3565 (fabled t5)</P> <P>Templar mit (Solo self buffed) : 3100 (full cobalt)</P> <DIV>Fury Avoidance (Solo self buffed) : 30%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Templar Avoidance (Solo self buffed) : 11.9%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Draw your own conclusions...</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Not sure where your getting those numbers from but my lvl 53 fury in T6 rare amour has just under 2000 mitigation.  The only way I can get my mitigation anywhere near 3500 mark is to cast porcupine.  This skill boosts my mit by 1400 (adept 3) for 36 seconds or 25 hits and totaly stuns me.  I can't do anything.  The only other time my mit has been above 3000 was pre Combat Update.  If their mitigation is 3565 fully buffed (not including porc) then i'd like to see their gear.</P> <P>I can't see the problem with increasing our heals.  We have been the worst healer since release.  People would refuse to have me in groups wanting a Cleric instead.  So many times I heared sorry we want a proper healer.  Pre Combat Update Our healing was poor our DPS was poor.  Our only redeaming feature was our buffs.  We were also the agro magnets of the healer world which also made us last choice in a group.</P> <P>I'm not disputing that Clerics need some loving but please stop asking for furies to be nerfed.  Like someone said earlier in this thread we were broke for ages and never yelled for templars to be nerfed all we asked is that we got healing bumped up.  If your not happy with your class then post constuctive posts outlining what improvements could be made. (Being realistic).  All this flaming and yelling for nerfs gets us nowhere.</P>

[Edyil]

<P>Warden instant healing is aweful.  They just bumped it and its still aweful.  They cannot handle spike damage, period.  Its better now, but still they are a dangerous main healer in many situations.  Healing 300 very 2 seconds sounds great except when the mob is hitting for 800 every 2 seconds, not including when he completes an HO on your [Removed for Content].</P> <P>Get real.  The only way you will be better than someone else of your class in this game is to actually have skill.  Tough [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Either be better or be just another nobody that mashes buttons.  SOE isn't going to build the game so you are better by default.  Live with it or quit.</P> <P>As for mitigation, the number shown is completely meaningless.  Hold the cursor over where it displays mitigation number and look at the actual % of damage you will mitigate.</P> <P>Message Edited by Edyil on <SPAN class=date_text>10-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:52 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Edyil on <span class=date_text>10-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:53 AM</span>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Edyil wrote:<BR> <P>Warden instant healing is aweful.  They just bumped it and its still aweful.  They cannot handle spike damage, period.  Its better now, but still they are a dangerous main healer in many situations.  Healing 300 very 2 seconds sounds great except when the mob is hitting for 800 every 2 seconds, not including when he completes an HO on your [Removed for Content].</P> <P>Get real.  The only way you will be better than someone else of your class in this game is to actually have skill.  Tough [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn].  Either be better or be just another nobody that mashes buttons.  SOE isn't going to build the game so you are better by default.  Live with it or quit.</P> <P>As for mitigation, the number shown is completely meaningless.  Hold the cursor over where it displays mitigation number and look at the actual % of damage you will mitigate.</P> <P>Message Edited by Edyil on <SPAN class=date_text>10-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:52 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Edyil on <SPAN class=date_text>10-25-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:53 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Deal with it, I have a 1200 point instant heal, yeah, 3 sec cast 12 sec recast. Sweet, NOT!</P> <P>Your solo target regen heals for same amount as solo target reactive per tick, but wait, you get one extra tick. Your group Regen, heals for up to as many as 27 extra ticks from our group reactive. Let me cry for you. </P>

[Ydiss]

<P>Oh, cool. Now some clerics are complaining that they're not as good at healing as wardens. Wonderful.</P> <P>Hurry up, devs, release a fix to the clerics so the wardens can start complaining again!</P> <P>Utter lunacy.</P> <DIV>I'm an inquisitor, I heal <EM>really</EM> well. Reactives are brilliant, my direct heals are brilliant. I do cool and nasty stuff to the enemy. I enjoy playing. End of the story.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could't care less if wardens can now heal better than me. Good on them!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I swear, class envy is the plague of the forums. If someone's not as good as someone else, they're broken. If they get fixed, someone else is broken. It's an absolute shambles.</DIV> <P>(Edit: Let it be said that I am not against a class providing feedback if they feel they're unable to effectively perform their primary role; wardens clearly were not able to do this and it seems the devs agree and have made some manner of adjustment. It's the anally retentive reaction to such changes from <EM>other classes</EM> that winds me up)</P><p>Message Edited by Ydiss on <span class=date_text>10-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:11 PM</span>

[Cowdenic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ydiss wrote:<BR> <P>Oh, cool. Now some clerics are complaining that they're not as good at healing as wardens. Wonderful.</P> <P>Hurry up, devs, release a fix to the clerics so the wardens can start complaining again!</P> <P>Utter lunacy.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>exactly.

[TheOnlySariah]

Cow do you even know what side you are on anymore? [Removed for Content]. I suggest you play a druid, a warden in particular, before you tell us we can handle spike damage :smileysurprised: <P></P>

[quetzaqotl]

<P>Indeed the group hot is only used at its full potential when the whole group is dmged constantly with an ae for instance (which in normal situations will be cured on the fly) whereas a clerics group reactive can trigger fully on 1 person aka the mt.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also the dps between wardens and furies isnt much off they do faster dmg for less we do slow hi dmg also wardens get other goodies like roots etc single target they can own harder [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] than furies.</P> <P>As can clerics you can take on harder (single target at least) mobs than a LA wearing druid and I know that for a fact saw an inq easily solo warclaw at lvl 54 whereas I at lvl 54 should come up with a strat and sometimes would be close to death at that lvl at least.</P> <P>Also wearing hvy armor is a HUGE advantage and this is said so MANY times before and noone listens to it the mitig bonus isnt the only bonus the most important bonus is as a cleric you can wear any armor in game maxxing out your stats getting the best fableds etc. Im happy some class specific armor drops more frequemt now as this was pre revamp VERY unbalancing.</P> <P>Also healers arent only about heals and a little dmg we buff debuff etc so if one class gets more dmg hey maybe you get better buffs debuffs whatever like maybe proc heals on buffs perhaps? whatever reactives still are VERY potent more potent in most situations compared on lossy hots.</P> <P>Dont get me wrong I love my fury but hate bash fury posts from people who dont have a clue.</P> <P> </P> <P></P>