Requesting City Guard Battling- No Reward

[Xeronoth]

In my Honest Opinion, a City Guard shouldn't be able to instantly throw you into Antonica/Commonlands from the city. They should allow a battle to take place, where if the player damages the Guard for 50% of it's health, then the Guard should despawn for 5 minutes. If the Guard damages the player down to 50% health, then the Player should be booted out of the City. Either way, The player has a chance to stay within the zone without being thrown out of the city by a level 1 Guard who has a single arrow down.   NO REWARD Given for defeating the guards. I used /feedback to say this, In this exact words, I said: a City Guard shouldn't be able to instantly transport Every non-aligned Player out of the city. Instead they should allow a battle between a city guard and a player of another city, but instead of giving a Reward of experianc and such- They should Despawn. No Reward other than the player being able to stay within the city. Anyway- I just felt I had to voice my opinion and hope to get this change in. Also I hope to get players to Send a feedback with this change to help push it to live. a Player such as me, who is on a computer that takes 4 minutes to zone is Extremely inconveniant for those who need for perform quests in the city they are not aligned to.  (I'm on a laptop, due to Desktop having fried itself... I miss my desktop =( It zoned me in 20 seconds and was able to have graphics pretty high... this laptop doesn't even run good enough for me to group with all the graphics turned off and settings to the Very MINIMUM) <div></div>

[peasant007]

<P>I have been saying pretty much the same thing since launch.  I think it utterly pointless to give the guards levels and arrows when a guard 20 levels lower than you can boot you without a fight.</P> <P>Duputy Splitshin and his stupid dog Lance would be the first to die many deaths by my hand.  </P> <p>Message Edited by peasant007 on <span class=date_text>10-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:11 AM</span>

[LFo]

<P>This can easily be fixed by raising the levels of all the guards in all the city areas. Their levels are low exactly because you can't kill them.</P> <P>I don't know where the "shouldn't" comes from, but if you were referring to the apparent lack of reality, consider this. Realistic guards will summon every available guard to their aid, capture you and throw you out(failing that, kill you outright). The current system seems to be an abstraction of this lengthy process. You cannot win against Qeynos Guards or Freeport Militia; because if you could, you'd be ruling Norrath by now.</P>

[Xeronoth]

Whens the last time you seen a guard call over ten guys to take you out when you already have him dead by the time he sees you? I mean- thinking stealth-wise, someone invading a place where they will be killed if seen, wouldn't you sneak up on the guards and take them out before you got taken out yourself? this is my Mentality of the "First contender to reach 50% health loses" Thus, if the player loses 50% health first, the the "Guards" are fully alerted and you are thrown out.... Just my 2 copper... <div></div>

[Dazzler_Twodir]

Well if you attack Freeoprt like that you wouldn't object to the Overlord incinerating you where you stood?

[peasant007]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LForr wrote:<BR> <P>This can easily be fixed by raising the levels of all the guards in all the city areas. Their levels are low exactly because you can't kill them.</P> <P>I don't know where the "shouldn't" comes from, but if you were referring to the apparent lack of reality, consider this. Realistic guards will summon every available guard to their aid, capture you and throw you out(failing that, kill you outright). The current system seems to be an abstraction of this lengthy process. You cannot win against Qeynos Guards or Freeport Militia; because if you could, you'd be ruling Norrath by now.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Again, I will state the question again then:  Why have levels on the guards if you can't kill them?  Why not just make them like the other NPC's?  If they were made higher level, I could deal with that.  It wouldn't deter me from making my valid shot at Deputy Splitshin.<BR>

[EtoilePirate]

I also have never understood how a LEVEL 1 Qeynosian guard can see-stealth on a level 50 player.  I mean, honestly.  I'll buy that all their level 35+ guards can see me, if I'm stealthing in at level 50, maybe even all their level 30+ guards, but those pansy level 1s can toss me?  I don't THINK so. I think the guards could use some tweaking.  I like the fight idea, too. <div></div>

[Aceron]

I believe this was discussed at the community summit recently, IGN had a write up about it. In it they mentioned a discussion where devs mentioned they are looking into not only allowing guards to be killable, but possibly ingorporating it into the betrayal process. Allowing factions to sway much in the way they do in Maj'Dul. Not sure if this would allow post sub-class betrayals or switching back and forth between cities (hopefully takes awhile to change) .

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LForr wrote:<BR> <P>This can easily be fixed by raising the levels of all the guards in all the city areas. Their levels are low exactly because you can't kill them.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Agreed.  I also want them to be able to call for help and have SQUADS of HIGH guards on you within seconds of calling for assistance.  No more teleporting - outright death and mayhem.  Also, I'd like certain merchants or bankers in some zones to call for guards if they detect a "spy" in an area they shouldn't be in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Croa]

<P>If we can somehow incorporate being able to kill Trapper Borgus into this, I'm all for it!</P> <P>It's funny when realism gets brought into a discussion.  How could someone really sneak up in stealth on a guard without having to keep behind the guard at all times? Also I would expect most of the towers to have guards in them watching down on the cities.  And for that matter, I'd think any npcs within visible site would yell for help if they saw a guard killed.  Not just aggro range, but visual range.</P> <P> </P> <P>You could go on and on (how could a person really take even just one hit from a giant and live?), but essentially the answer to "why?" on these subjects is nothing more than because that's how they designed it.  I do agree that the guards within city zones should be attackable, but obviously in most of the areas they would be to tough for anyone to handle for players.  Beyond that the game simply is not designed for attacking player cities. At least not at this point.</P>

[CherobylJ]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LForr wrote:<BR> <P>This can easily be fixed by raising the levels of all the guards in all the city areas. Their levels are low exactly because you can't kill them.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Agreed.  I also want them to be able to call for help and have SQUADS of HIGH guards on you within seconds of calling for assistance.  No more teleporting - outright death and mayhem.  Also, I'd like certain merchants or bankers in some zones to call for guards if they detect a "spy" in an area they shouldn't be in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This would be fun as it would add color to the "city vs city".  As long as they dont make guards worth exp/loot (countered with ejection rather than shard death if you lose).</P> <P>The idea of a city reacting like..well a city would be fun.  </P> <P><BR> </P>

[lisasdarr]

<span><blockquote><hr>CherobylJoe wrote: <p>This would be fun as it would add color to the "city vs city".  As long as they dont make guards worth exp/loot (countered with ejection rather than shard death if you lose).</p> <p>The idea of a city reacting like..well a city would be fun. </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I like that idea too, so long as the inhabitants of said city lose their magic powers of alignment detection, the only people who should be able to tell whether you are friend or foe is guards and city officials who could legitimatly demand you show them ID, all others should treat you just like a citizen, they have no way of telling otherwise.</span><div></div>

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kendricke wrote: <blockquote> <hr> LForr wrote: <p>This can easily be fixed by raising the levels of all the guards in all the city areas. Their levels are low exactly because you can't kill them.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <div>Agreed.  I also want them to be able to call for help and have SQUADS of HIGH guards on you within seconds of calling for assistance.  No more teleporting - outright death and mayhem.  Also, I'd like certain merchants or bankers in some zones to call for guards if they detect a "spy" in an area they shouldn't be in. </div><hr></blockquote> Until they facilitate guards calling on other guards and a way for player characters (as well as NPCs not in the combat) to call guards, I don't think it should be added. </span><span>Generally, the players who demand to have the cities attackable for their RP (or with RP as a flimsy excuse, or jsut for the heck of attacking a city) don't want anyone to be able to call guards because then it wouldn't be a piece of cake to "take down" the city and give themselves the bragging "rights" of having conquered thus and so.</span> <span> In EQ1, there was no way to call guards to help defend a city unless those guards happened to get within agro distance (either by pathing or, sadly, by training).  There was no way to actually defend a city because, even without the limitations of duel, guards wouldn't help the citizens doing the work of the guards.  Some, sadly, resorted to training to drive away the attackers.  Some resorted to the "lag beast".  But there was no actual way to -defend- a city against attackers wanting to attack the city, they succeeded or failed just as if it was any other raid target without any "interference" from other players. Another problem with having guards, merchants, and quest givers attackable is that it totally effects the gameplay of other people in a very negative way.  The lower level people are impacted worse than those of higher levels, but it can affect the higher level people, too.  Where there are complaints now about the required (by quest step) death of certain HQ quest givers (i.e. the scholar in Antonica and Cannix in Commonlands) it's much worse when it's the NPCs of the city.  In EQ1, when the completely undefensible cities became targets, it became the delight of some to grief those who relied on NPCs within the cities for quests, buying and selling, banking, etc. The current way... while it is only one guard that sees you and boots you (kills you without a shard loss with the respawn outside the city).. simulates being spotted by one guard with many being called down to deal with you.  I do, personally, think it would be much better for guards to only have a -chance- to see invis or sneaking (but you could argue they have special training in it.. kinda like how scout mobs -always- see invis and/or sneak) with the merchants and quest givers either being indifferent or, going back to the way it was, allowing those invisible or sneaking to buy/sell and maybe even interact.</span><div></div>

[-Arctura-]

<DIV>Its not that hard to get NPC's to call other NPC's to come help.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was hard coded in the very first Unreal Engine (made years ago) used in tons of games, and its not that complicated....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>if Guard X  panicmode = True</DIV> <DIV>then Closest-10 Guards = Move to Guard X</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>etc. (laymans terms version of the code)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All that is required is the motivation and desire of the coders to implement the change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lintr]

<DIV>A grand idea, grey guards throwing  you out so fast you think you crashed is definately ruining the reality.  I'm sure Lucan D'Lere will be PO'ed at his guards being beaten up, but it was one of my fav pastimes in EQ1 when i was bored =)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wish all NPCs were killable.  I don't mind if they serve no loot at all, but some of them are plainly anoying.  If this makes into the game, the first person im killing is that annoying kid who keeps asking me "Have you seen a gnoll before?"</DIV>

[silentpsycho]

While this (Killing NPC's) sounds extremely fun, it'll probably never happen... for just this reason.  Didn't you hear?  Fun is not allowed to exist in EQ2.  Killing anything that hasn't been strictly designed to be killed by the exact correct party makeup is an exploit and shall be rooted from the game!!!

[Rijacki]

If one person's fun is griefing to another, is it really all that much fun? When city NPCs can be killed, like in EQ1, there are those who take great delight in killing off all the NPCs which are needed by other players to do pretty much anything.  Would you think it fun if you went into the bank in, for example, Baubleshire, and the banker was not there because someone thought it would be fun to kill him?  How about the menders on the docks when your armor is about to fall off?  How about the quest giver for a quest you'd been working on for several hours and just have a little bit more to finish it? Oh yeah... lots of fun. <div></div>

[Seraphe]

the killing of NPCs would be going to far for the reason mentioned above. However I really like the idea of being able to take out the guards in a city if I choose to and have the ability to do so. I also like the idea of the guards being able to call for help. It adds a level of RPing that you don't see much of and a level of realism to the game. There are zealots from both factions that would enjoy striking into the heart of their enemies cities. One or two thoughts to add to what has been thrown out there so far 1) Perhaps there could be city ramifications for guard deaths...prices going up on NPC goods or something along those lines. 2) A player attacking a guard would be open to attack by citizens aligned with the guard... or at least be able to assist a guard they see being attacked. 3) Quests calling for the elimination of certain guards. 4) A new status tree for individuals able to strike at the heart of their rival cities. I would love to have the oportunity to have Champion of Qeynos as a tag. <div></div>