Just do away with max levels on armor and greying out

[Naggyba]

I say screw it and do away with the CON system and stuff greying out PERIOD. Let the players pick when they want to upgrade. Have a minimum level sure, like you don't want level 14 players in cobalt. Just do away with the max and the whole 15 level difference crap.Now, people will see new gear that is better and will naturally upgrade. I mean if a piece of armor provides you with better stats and will help you do better against the mob, then people will naturally move onto the better stuff.My t5 fabled kicks butt over t6 rare any day (except maybe mitigation but mit isn't end all be all for a lot of us).So what should SOE do? They make t6 rare and t6 fabled better than t5 fabled and rare all around so that it gives the players and incentive to buy and raid for the new stuff.Let the players decide when it's time to upgrade. Joe Blow surely isn't going be trying to take on Vox in gear made of feysteel when there is sooo much better gear out there that will provide him with a better chance but, if he is 50 and wants to still use his feysteel, more power to him. Vox will rip him a new one but hey...Let the PLAYER decide when they can and want to upgrade. Natural progression of the toughness of the mobs and the better gear will motivate the players to get it. Players are always looking to improve the character. It's a natural thing. To impose an artificial barrier of max levels on armor does nothing but makes all the work they put into obtaining the armor, a waste of their hard work and time in some cases.

[Magu]

Stop reposting the same bloody thing over and over, it won't help. The con system is a good thing, and any idiot would've known you would outlevel T5 fabled gear when you could level up more. Go get T6 fabled. <div></div>

[Langaan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Magus` wrote:<BR>Stop reposting the same bloody thing over and over, it won't help. The con system is a good thing, and any idiot would've known you would outlevel T5 fabled gear when you could level up more.<BR><BR>Go get T6 fabled.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Magus, you giving out good advice again?  errr, where?</DIV>

[Naggyba]

Good advice? How about lame excuses for a broke system.If you call that good advice, well...How about I post whatever I want and if you don't like it, go somewhere else and don't whine about players that are offering suggestions. If you don't like it, don't read it. If the moderators don't want us posting stuff, they will lock or delete the threads.<p>Message Edited by Naggybait on <span class=date_text>10-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:07 PM</span>

[BdybldKris]

Great post Naggy!  That is definitely the way it should be.  The con system for armor is ludicrous.  Make some red to prevent use, but leave the rest white.  Let the players decide what they want to use.

[Trei]

What is so ludicrous about a <i>simple color indication</i> system that informs you at a glance that its probably time to replace one of your equipment? Turning grey con doesn't make your items useless, it will still function just as effectively as it did. If it added 10 strength when it was white, it will still add 10 strength after it is grey. What's your problem? <b>You</b> on the other hand would most likely be better off using higher level items that make <b>you</b> function more appropriately at <b>your</b> level. <div></div>

[MagicWand]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trei49 wrote:<BR>What is so ludicrous about a <I>simple color indication</I> system that informs you at a glance that its probably time to replace one of your equipment?<BR><BR>Turning grey con doesn't make your items useless, it will still function just as effectively as it did.<BR>If it added 10 strength when it was white, it will still add 10 strength after it is grey.<BR>What's your problem?<BR><BR><B>You</B> on the other hand would most likely be better off using higher level items that make <B>you</B> function more appropriately at <B>your</B> level.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Does it effect other stats as well like Mit? 

[BdybldKris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trei49 wrote:<BR>What is so ludicrous about a <I>simple color indication</I> system that informs you at a glance that its probably time to replace one of your equipment?<BR><BR>Turning grey con doesn't make your items useless, it will still function just as effectively as it did.<BR>If it added 10 strength when it was white, it will still add 10 strength after it is grey.<BR>What's your problem?<BR><BR><B>You</B> on the other hand would most likely be better off using higher level items that make <B>you</B> function more appropriately at <B>your</B> level.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If EQ2 player are that simple, then perhaps they do need a color con system.  If the color is the only thing that makes you realize that there may be a better item out there for you, then by all means RELY on it.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, the devs posted that grey items "are less effective" when they become grey.  You will still get the benefit of the stats, but what makes it "less effective?" </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I can tell you in regards to armor, T6 drops seem to mitigate dmg much better than a level 40 Fabled (and hard to get) armor piece.  I believe the mobs hitting a level 40 piece of armor are landing more than if you equip a level 53 piece.  That's the problem with all the T5 Fabled gear, but that's another subject.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I still think it's a great post and don't understand why a piece of armor should ever grey out and lose any effectiveness at all.  Make the T6 better than the T5 and that's what everyone will want anyway.  Instead, we get a SUPER armor con system....brilliant....:smileysad:</DIV>

[Langaan]

<P>Naggy, read my post again.  I'm not actually saying hes giving good advice, its sarcasm.  Hence the "err where?"</P> <P> </P>

[Trei]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><i>["... However, the devs posted that grey items "are less effective" when they become grey.  You will still get the benefit of the stats, but what makes it "less effective?"  ..."]</i> I thought I already covered it in my post? <span>:smileyindifferent: The item's stand-alone effectiveness is <b>static</b>. <font size="1">(if it gave you +10 health at lvl 20, it will still give you +10 health when you are wearing it at lvl 60).</font> The potency of the mobs you are dealing with at lvl 20 compared to lvl 60 however..... obviously isn't. <font size="1">(would that same +10 health mean as much to your character at lvl 60 as it once did at lvl 20?)</font>. Simple example: You have 300hp at lvl <font color="#00cc00">X</font> You are wearing lvl <font color="#00cc00">X</font> armor with AF value thats basically a <font color="#ffffff">-40</font> to all melee damage Lvl <font color="#00cc00">X</font> orcs hit you for average <font color="#ffffff">80</font> damage without armor, thus with it you get hit for <font color="#ffffff">40</font> damage avg Then you leveled up to lvl <font color="#ff0000">Y</font> and you have 400hp Lvl <font color="#ff0000">Y</font> orcs now deal avg <font color="#ffffff">160</font> damage without armor, and lvl <font color="#ff0000">Y</font> armor is <font color="#ffffff">-80</font> to all melee damage and with it you get hit for <font color="#ffffff">80</font> damage avg But.... </span><span>you are still wearing a grey lvl <font color="#00cc00">X</font> armor that still mitigates only <font color="#00cc00">40</font> damage...</span> <span>How well do you expect this piece of armor to perform when you are now dealing with <font color="#ffffff">160</font> damage hits instead of the <font color="#ffffff">80</font> that the <font color="#00cc00">X </font></span><span>armor was meant to handle</span><span>? Just as effective as the lvl <font color="#ff0000">Y</font> one with <font color="#ff0000">-80</font> damage? That's what the devs meant by loss of effectiveness;  it is relative to <u>you</u> and has nothing much to do with the item itself. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Trei49 on <span class=date_text>10-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:07 AM</span>

[Naggyba]

<blockquote><hr>Langaan wrote:<P>Naggy, read my post again.  I'm not actually saying hes giving good advice, its sarcasm.  Hence the "err where?"</P> <P> </P> <hr></blockquote>Oh <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />If by turning grey it was simply a color change to let people know it's time to upgrade, then there would be no problem but, it has been indicated more than once by Dev team members that the "turning grey" is MORE than an indicator. There is also a reduction in effectiveness versus it being white.I really prefered EQ1's way of doing this. Armor had a set AC value. You could get jewelry and other pieces with whatever resist you wanted. They need to change this system over to the way they did it there. Just have a set value and it will mitigate xxx amount of damage no matter what. People are going to automatically improve their toons in effectiveness and get better armor as they go. That's the whole point of doing raids and stuff. Get better gear so you can take on bigger and better things.

[missionarymarr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Naggybait wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Langaan wrote:<BR> <P>Naggy, read my post again.  I'm not actually saying hes giving good advice, its sarcasm.  Hence the "err where?"</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Oh <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>If by turning grey it was simply a color change to let people know it's time to upgrade, then there would be no problem but, it has been indicated more than once by Dev team members that the "turning grey" is MORE than an indicator. There is also a reduction in effectiveness versus it being white.<BR><BR>I really prefered EQ1's way of doing this. Armor had a set AC value. You could get jewelry and other pieces with whatever resist you wanted. They need to change this system over to the way they did it there. Just have a set value and it will mitigate xxx amount of damage no matter what. People are going to automatically improve their toons in effectiveness and get better armor as they go. That's the whole point of doing raids and stuff. Get better gear so you can take on bigger and better things.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Actually from what Moorguard said recently. Turning Grey is just an indicator the stats never get weaker including Mit. Only weapons is this not true.</DIV>

[SageGaspar]

I don't know the exact post, but to summarize what he said: Grey is an *indicator* for when you should buy new stuff. It doesn't mean you should ditch it. The only case where grey actually affects the effectiveness of an item is with weapons, which, when grey, stop hitting certain mobs (epics, named groups maybe). However, in "normal" battle, they should still be just as effective as they always were. <div></div>

[Salastine]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SageGaspar wrote:<BR>I don't know the exact post, but to summarize what he said:<BR><BR>Grey is an *indicator* for when you should buy new stuff. It doesn't mean you should ditch it.<BR><BR>The only case where grey actually affects the effectiveness of an item is with weapons, which, when grey, stop hitting certain mobs (epics, named groups maybe). However, in "normal" battle, they should still be just as effective as they always were.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Here is the link, for everyone benefit:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=47309#M47309" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=47309#M47309</A></P> <P>Summary: Greying out does NOTHING to change the effectiveness of the item itself.  Greying out, in effect, is a "red flag" to indicate to the player that it is probably time to upgrade... NOTHING MORE.</P>

[Landiin]

Greying out shouldn't matter but if you will get more mid % from a t6 than a t5 even if the mid number is the same and thats just crasy if u ask me. If it says 405 mid it should be 405 mid no matter what Tier it s.. <div></div>

[Trei]

You have not read any of the posts above before deciding to add one yourself, have you? If it says 405 mitigation, then golly!  it really is infact 405 mitigation no matter what tier it is. But this value of 405 is not a percentage or, as you called it, a mid %. Let's assume 405 mit = -405 damage and a white con mob always hits you for 405 damage. 405/405 x 100 = 100% mitigation You gain a level and now mobs white con to you are also one level higher and always hits you for 415 damage. 405/415 x 100 = ...you expect this number to still be 100% ? <div></div>

[Landiin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Trei49 wrote:<BR>You have not read any of the posts above before deciding to add one yourself, have you?<BR><BR>If it says 405 mitigation, then golly!  it really is infact 405 mitigation no matter what tier it is.<BR>But this value of 405 is not a percentage or, as you called it, a mid %.<BR><BR>Let's assume 405 mit = -405 damage <BR>and a white con mob always hits you for 405 damage.<BR><BR>405/405 x 100 = 100% mitigation <BR><BR>You gain a level and now mobs white con to you are also one level higher and always hits you for 415 damage.<BR>405/415 x 100 = ...you expect this number to still be 100% ?<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>LOL, dude don't be dumb. the % of mid 405 mid gives you on t5 is NOT the same % of mid 405 mid gives you with t6. The % that is shown is based on an even con mob. So when I eqp a BP that has 405 mid at its t5 and my mid is 47% then I eqp one that is 405 t6 my mid is now 49%.. The % that is show has nothing to do with what mob you fighing it is based on your lvl vs an even con encouter(one that is the same lvl as you). </P> <P>Look at this thread, look at the 6th post down. <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=46817&page=4" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=46817&page=4</A></P> <p>Message Edited by Landiin on <span class=date_text>10-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:58 AM</span>

[Trei]

hmmm.. I see.. My bad, I wasn't aware that reality is not agreeing with intention regarding this issue. <i></i><div></div>

[Ironmeow]

<DIV>i think the con system is good, but if your gonna have a con system that works in tiers, each teir needs thousands of variations and items, i dont really see that in this game thats why some people think it doesnt work, everyone wears the same crap every tier its dumb really.</DIV>

[Gungo]

I would just be happy to see the actual stats on lower tier armour to see if a new item is an actual upgrade. As it is the stats, mtigation number, Inherent item avoid (unseen), etc can be larger on a t5 fabled item but a lower mitgation t6 treasured item has a greater actual effect. The 15 lvl greying out crap leaves the game way to ambigous. Just show me what i have so i can compare is all i want.