Post Bonus XP - My thoughts on a new vitality system

[Kingm]

<div></div>After really enjoying the progress I could make with vitality + Bonus XP I started to think of how to make this game more friendly for the casual gamer without causing levels to fly to 50. My thinking might be flawed, however I thought I would put the idea out for consumption / discussion. I am proposing that XP gain <b>*with vitality*</b> is <u>raised</u> to levels we had during Bonus XP week. XP gain <b>*without vitality*</b> remains <u>unchanged</u> without any bonus. Because of the limited number of hours the casual player has - they will never hit 50 quickly regardless of the increase in vitality based XP gain. If they start to spend more hours in the game then obviously their progress will be slowed down thus preventing a level 50 epidemic. Even if it is enabled for sub-50 characters - it's something. Before hardcore players ask - WHAT ABOUT US?.... I think making vitality more important could actually have a positive effect even for hardcore gamers. Whilst vitality is burned off on one toon, it is regenerated on the other (at a slightly slower pace to prevent mass juggling of characters). Thus even the hardcore player can make use of vitality if they roll 2-3 characters - and they benefit from doing so because they get to experience a different class and also level up at a fairly speedy pace (within boundaries). By increasing the perceived value of vitality people have incentive to play alternate characters - thus you increase the population of low level players. If you spend some time in game you will notice a lot of new players - especially from WoW... are complaining that the low level zones are void of players.. I think increased vitality will encourage more committed players to spread time between toons (provided vitality is character specific). I think its a good trade off between giving people some good XP time... Making sure levels are not gained too quickly (by hardcore players.. Whilst also encouraging people to make alternate characters (to get full benefit of vitality) I know some of you will go beserk at me for making this suggestion... But it is just a suggestion so don't tear into me ...  Thanks This is a genuine attempt to provide constructive feedback for both casual and hardcore gamers - both whose predicaments I fully appreciate. <p>Message Edited by Kingman on <span class=date_text>09-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:04 PM</span>

[Giral]

<P> </P> <P>i really dont see what is so hard about soloing and leveling i can get a toon to level 20 in a week playin for 2 to 3 hours a day  , if all you want is exp from Soloing then just stand there killing mobs over and over and over and over and over and over . </P> <P>Eq2 is a game for solo and group players BUT they stated from release that Grouping would be a much more benifical way to gain Exp , the game has been set up so all classes can fit into groups , If you never ever group then you should be content with the same Exp that everybody else gets when they solo Why should Soloer's get extra special Exp ? it just doesn't make any sense at all for the balance of the game because All players would Just Solo to gain exp instead of grouping, and they would only group for ends of quests and raids = a ton of people that Don't know how to group Well lol = alot of death and debt and fustration on pickup groups </P> <P>The Only Realy logical thing to do for solo players would be to Up the solo quest Exp becuase this way you would have something to do When your playing solo that would be worth Exp,Gear and Loot  and make the game interesting instead of Kill Mob over and over and over and over </P> <P>i think that if you play eq2 as a solo only game and you only kill mobs endlessly to gain exp to level up then ; ( really why would anybody play a Game called ever"Quest" they should play a game called Boring"Exp", and i would much rather go play a solo console game that there is a ton of stuff there for solo players(if you don't use cheat codes and ruin the game :smileymad: ) </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Raising Exp for solo players = no reason to group for More exp </P> <P> </P> <P>Raising exp for solo players also = no reason to do quests just go kill mobs to level real fast </P> <P> </P> <P>Raising Solo  " Quest "  exp = reasons to do quests + loot/drops + good exp on end of quest + exp wyle killing mobs for the quest + the quest reward and coins : )  , = Make game fun and do something wyle you level Like    "Quests"</P><p>Message Edited by Giralus on <span class=date_text>09-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:28 PM</span>

[Kingm]

I'm not sure I understand you. I don't think I am talking about solo XP. There should be no reason why group XP is not better than solo XP under this system. All it means is that whilst you have vitality you get slightly more XP whether you are in a group or solo. It's not a massive change and it only lasts for as long as your vitality remains high. <div></div>

[Giral]

then what is the point of the current vitality system ?

[Kingm]

That's what it is.. The vitality system.. Just boosted... So instead of 200% boost you get 250%.... It doesn't last long... But you can solo or group at 250% for the duration of your combat vitality. It allows people to make good progress in lets say 1  hour of play time. But they will never hit 50 quickly because if they start grinding the vitality will be gone. <div></div>

[Ydiss]

<P>I'm not knocking your suggestion but why did it take such a long post to suggest vitality be boosted to 250% instead of 200%? It's not a revised Experience system it's just asking for a more generous Vitality bonus. Which just equates to faster leveling.</P> <P>Again, I'm not knocking your suggestion because, as you say, vitality is becomes less and less desirable as players gain levels (isn't it 1% of vitality for 1% exp in tier 6?). Your suggestion would probably benefit casual gamers and, sure, it would probably promote the usage of alts. What it wouldn't do is populate the lower levels more. Vitality is so long-lasting in tier 1, 2 and 3 that it can take an alt a few days to reach tier 4, even if they're only playing casually (with the added bonus of having loads of cash).</P> <P>I clicked on this thread looking forward to see if you'd come up with a new idea entirely, hehe.</P>

[Giral]

<DIV>welp really the only thing i see flawed with getting even more exp then you get with the current vitality bonus is the whole combat re-vamp was a means to an ends of making Leveling slower : ) becuase people do not stay at thier current levels long enough to do alot of the content in the zones for there levels ; ( Since Splitpaw came out i see that 60% of the people i have on my friends list do nothing but Go there to level ; ( , </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>People just starting the game or coming back to the game Don't need to start getting Ultra exp bonuses becuase if your a Hardcore player you are giong to go straight to Leveling.  If your a casual player then you should want to be doing stuff that you can do at your level and enjoy the content that has been created for it and thats why i posted that it would make more sense to </DIV> <DIV>Grant Much better Exp for completing Solo quests as Most casual gamers that play for 1 to 2 hours Dont Group very much becuase by the time they find a group they have to Leave ; ( , </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the Bonus Exp that Came free for a week with Expansion was ludicris ; ( and being a casual gamer it was hard enough for me to stay  near levels with friends in game that have alot more time One friend went from 45 to 50 and im only lvl 44 i was only 1 level behind him befor Expansion week and now i have to Climb up 6 levels and by the time i do they will be to level 53 or more </DIV> <DIV>the bonus exp for all players would only greatly benifit Group exp and leave the casual solo players in the dark ages .</DIV>

[Kingm]

<div></div><div></div>Sorry - It was a bit unclear. I just finished an econometrics paper so my brain is still thinking in a bit of  a convoluted way hehe.I revised it to more simply state what its all about.<a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=115006"><span>Giralus</span></a> : Sorry, how will it leave casual gamers in the dark ages? It's designed to keep casual players close(r) to hard core players.Hardcore players will get dropped back down to normal XP gain once vitallity runs out. They will need to grind harder.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Kingman on <span class=date_text>09-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:01 PM</span>

[Proudfoot]

<span><blockquote><hr>Giralus wrote:<div>becuase people do not stay at thier current levels long enough to do alot of the content in the zones for there levels ; ( Since Splitpaw came out i see that 60% of the people i have on my friends list do nothing but Go there to level ; ( , </div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote> Did it ever occur to you that people prefer the controlled zones to level, that happen to also allow you to SOLO? Coincidence? No fear of 3+++ heroics passing by and squishing you, no hassel of having to pass those 3+++ heroics to get to a solo mob. Of course the instances are popular... its the best solo feature of the game at this point. Solo is popular, despite the naysayers.</span><div></div>

[Kingm]

How about giving players the option to select their desired vitality system at log-in. For example a player logs in and has vitality on his character. Knowing they are only going to play for 30 minutes, they select - high vitality gain mode. Under this mode the player  has increased % vitality gain for a smaller duration of time. Now lets say the player has 1-2 hours of play time. They would pick medium vitality mode. They would receive less % vitality XP, over a longer period of time. All the vitality modes have the same net result but cater for individual gaming style. <div></div>

[Zahmekos]

If you increase the vit effect you will not slow down the 'grinding player', because everyone get the same amount of vit per day. You can get the opposit when a casual player reaches 100% vit and will not gain any more vit. The 'grinding player' will always use 100% of the vit he gains per day. <div></div>

[Kingm]

*edit* Misunderstood what you were saying.<p>Message Edited by Kingman on <span class=date_text>09-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:03 PM</span>

[Ninusar]

<DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Ninusar on <span class=date_text>10-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:21 AM</span>

[Ninusar]

<DIV>Sorry for multi-post</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ninusar on <span class=date_text>10-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:22 AM</span>

[Ninusar]

<DIV>-----------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> <P>i really dont see what is so hard about soloing and leveling i can get a toon to level 20 in a week playin for 2 to 3 hours a day  , if all you want is exp from Soloing then just stand there killing mobs over and over and over and over and over and over . </P> <P>Eq2 is a game for solo and group players BUT they stated from release that Grouping would be a much more benifical way to gain Exp , the game has been set up so all classes can fit into groups , If you never ever group then you should be content with the same Exp that everybody else gets when they solo Why should Soloer's get extra special Exp ? it just doesn't make any sense at all for the balance of the game because All players would Just Solo to gain exp instead of grouping, and they would only group for ends of quests and raids = a ton of people that Don't know how to group Well lol = alot of death and debt and fustration on pickup groups </P> <P>The Only Realy logical thing to do for solo players would be to Up the solo quest Exp becuase this way you would have something to do When your playing solo that would be worth Exp,Gear and Loot  and make the game interesting instead of Kill Mob over and over and over and over </P> <P>i think that if you play eq2 as a solo only game and you only kill mobs endlessly to gain exp to level up then ; ( really why would anybody play a Game called ever"Quest" they should play a game called Boring"Exp", and i would much rather go play a solo console game that there is a ton of stuff there for solo players(if you don't use cheat codes and ruin the game <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif" width=16 border=0> ) </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Raising Exp for solo players = no reason to group for More exp </P> <P> </P> <P>Raising exp for solo players also = no reason to do quests just go kill mobs to level real fast </P> <P> </P> <P>Raising Solo  " Quest "  exp = reasons to do quests + loot/drops + good exp on end of quest + exp wyle killing mobs for the quest + the quest reward and coins : )  , = Make game fun and do something wyle you level Like    "Quests"</P> <P>-----------------------------------------------------------</P> <P> </P> <P>Ummm... i think your lost bud... Vit has nothing to do with grouping and Soloing...</P> <P>if you have Vit you get 2x the credit for the kill..... so if you are soloing and kill a mob worth lets say 100exp with vit you get 200exp and it works the same in a group.  so i dont see how that pretains to the Vit comment. </P> <P>and to help clairify the preposed reavamp i belive she means scaleing the Vitality... so if you have 90-100% vitality you get 300% increase  if you have 50-89% vit you get 250% exp and if you have 1-49% you get the normal 200% vit bonus.  The idea is not a bad one because players that could actually use that system are the people who play fewer than 5-10 hrs a week.  and even with that little boost the system would not get ppl 2 50 at uber speeds bc 5-10 hrs a week is no where near enough to go 1-60 at a desiarable pace.</P></DIV>

[Gargamel]

<div></div><div></div>I've been out of town for the past few days so I haven't grouped much since the bonus xp was turned off.  Did a bit of soloing and the absolute best I could find was fighting solo mobs 3-4lvls above me, but with a single V.  I could take up to a single mob 4lvls above me and a ^ and just make it (died a few times actually in that case), and a mob 3 lvls above and no arrows would be a good fight, but have long recharge time for Health/Power after. I was Lvl 42 Easiest 3-4lvls above me and v -- I was getting ~ .25-.3% XP (with vitality) Mid-Range 3-4lvls above me no arrows -- I was getting ~ .3-.35% xp (with vitality) Hard fights were 3-4lvls above me and ^ -- I was getting ~ .4% xp (with vitatlity) and a long wait before next MOB. So roughly, I'd say 375-400 lvl 45v/46v for a lvl or 300-350 lvl 46s for a lvl or 250-275 lvl 46^'s for a lvl Even being super efficient and focusing (using mana regen items, etc) the 'easy' ones would take me a 60-90s to kill, and 30-40s recharge. The mid-range would only be a few seconds longer, but the recharge would be double or triple The hard ones would end up taking 2-2.5min but the recharge was at least that, and probably more. Anyway I did spend yesterday, like 8hrs probably, going from 42 to 43, though I did do alot of fairly quick Sinking Sands quests at the docks. The issue I have is this is all with 'double' xp, since I've had vitatlity the entire time (a lvl burned from 100% to < 50%), I cringe on ever leveling this high up (at least solo) without Vitality, and I'm hoping the group XP is better in those cases. Oh well, thats why I have alts I guess.... <p>Message Edited by Gargamel on <span class=date_text>09-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:50 PM</span>

[Banef]

<div></div>I got a solution, why not put in NPCs that level you 10 levels per week if you have not played more than an hour in that week. Lord knows the casual games deserve to play the same game with a few hours invested as the people who invest a lot of time.  Heck put in some free fabled gifts NPCs as well.   All the reward with none of the effort! I think they should do away with vitality all-together and just average it out, 150% XP all the time. ( Being the new 100% ). I'm dumbfounded by people that think they should get some kind of bonus or perk because they don't play much. I know that is not what you are saying, but that IS what the vitality system is. If you play 3 days out of the week, you will have vitality on the first day and spend the next 2 days getting the same xp you did on that first day.  It feels like a punishment for playing for 3 days in a row.  At level 55 Vitality just seams like a pathetic groin kick, 100% barley showing into your level. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Baneful on <span class=date_text>09-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:25 PM</span>

[RedFeather]

<font color="#ff0000">Please read this suggestion everyone! </font><font color="#ff0000"><span>:smileyhappy:</span></font> I have a lvl 42 inquisitor. I had a lot of fun playing him, but I have unfortunately lost interest in his play style after casually playing him for nearly 10 months. Yeah, that's pretty casual! I started a new character for a change of pace, but I found that trying to get him into my guild's level range was daunting. Incredibly daunting! Unfortunately, I've decided to stop playing EQ2. I might come back, as I have in the past. I usually log out shortly after, depressed that I made the wrong class choice, and that I don't have the patience and staying power to redo everthing I've done with my main with my new character. <font color="#ffff00">My suggestion is that when a player starts a new character, that new character's vitality bonus is modified by the lvl of that player's other characters.</font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">The larger the gap between that player's  old characters and their new character, the more impact vitality can have on that new character. If a player has character's averaging lvl 50, then when they start a new character, that new character's vitality bonus is boosted considerably. As that new character lvl's up and the gap between lvls decreases, the vitality boost that the new character receives would also decrease, until the enhanced vitality is gone. I hope I explained my suggestion clearly. Don't think I'm trying to find a way to come back. I will come back eventually like I always have in the past, just thought I'd throw out this idea to see if it made sense to the overall 'funfactor' variable. Remember, it's very difficult to go through everything over again, when you start a new character. Casual gamers, like myself, just have a very difficult time justifying starting a new toon, when they've grown tired of their original, and starting at square one again for another 10 months! I didn't want to leave. I had to! I was biting my fingers off in frustration! <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> </font><div></div>

[Miral]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Baneful wrote:<BR> If you play 3 days out of the week, you will have vitality on the first day and spend the next 2 days getting the same xp you did on that first day.  It feels like a punishment for playing for 3 days in a row.  At level 55 Vitality just seams like a pathetic groin kick, 100% barley showing into your level.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>0% vitality is just a friendly reminder to get some fresh air =P</DIV>

[RedFeather]

<div></div>Oh, I should clarify. My suggestion wasn't about adding more vitality, it was for increasing the exp bonus that vitality offered, If you are starting another toon. <div></div><p>Message Edited by RedFeather1975 on <span class=date_text>09-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:08 PM</span>

[Smeegill]

<P>Xp is fine solo or in group as it is.  As a conjuror I Solo, group and raid whenever I wish and get good xp.  </P> <P>In fact  when I Solo I get about 2 times the experience of grouping.</P> <P>Just play have fun and dont whine about xp.  Its a waste of time and energy.  </P> <P>Fizbiz 52 COnjuror Everfrost</P>

[Raster]

<P>I'd have to agree about not changing it or getting rid of it.  Vitality is too noticable as it is.  When leveling/grinding I hated it when someone just grouped up to use up vitality & log.  For that matter Healers should get negative vitality the longer they stay logged off <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />."</P> <P>The solo/casual player can do quests to help boost their xp.  Nothing worse than having a few hours of "grinding" interupted by "Vitaltiy gone <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .. seeya!"</P>

[thark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monsterblitz wrote:<BR> <P>I'd have to agree about not changing it or getting rid of it.  Vitality is too noticable as it is.  When leveling/grinding I hated it when someone just grouped up to use up vitality & log.  For that matter Healers should get negative vitality the longer they stay logged off <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />."</P> <P>The solo/casual player can do quests to help boost their xp.  Nothing worse than having a few hours of "grinding" interupted by "Vitaltiy gone <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .. seeya!"</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well, what you describe is a common effect, I hear this also all the time, because people really think they will gain less xp when the Vitality is gone!!? But they won't ..let me explain </P> <P>Well in one way this is ofcourse true, but on the other way it,s not true, ea: If you play long enough to burn all your vitality, you play longer than the group of players the vitality system is aiming for, so If you continue playing at 0% Vitality you will gain the xp you would have gotten If you had logged out and save up some new vitality..Vitality is there for the casual player, and it's also good for the players with alot of alts. </P> <P> So continue playing without xp bonus(Vit) will not render you less effective or even less xp in any sence at all, it's just a psychological effect based on the time you are playing, but if you are playing very little the Vitality system is ofcourse doing it's job proper..</P> <DIV>/Rimor/Margoth</DIV>

[j]

<DIV>I don't find that solo exp is good enough .  Its not really just the exp but also the play experiance. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soloing just isn't interesting and sadly neither is grouping . You have to fight in the same areas lvl after lvl most of the time for 5 or so lvls before you can go to new content .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if i'm lvl 32 i'm going to be in el  for at least 3 lvls of soloing. There is just not the amount of content   (quest or mob wise) to hold my interest .  The reward while exp is not bad  the item and money based side are seriously lacking. Add to the fact that random  heroic mobs wander around in the  solo based mob areas makes soloing even less fun . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The game needs a major reworking  now that this new combat system is in . We need more small instant zones  that are both solo / heroic . Change the loot accordingly .  An example would be the old light house in anotica . You can get a key and go in the back and your in a mini zone. Its not huge but was great for small groups at low lvls. Now take this and make it both group and solo by selecting which one you want and  put in 5 of these per lvl segement and we have a great start .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hate to say this but as the playerbase  shrinks or stagnates more and more of your players are going to go to solo play. Its been 2 days since i found a group lfging . I only group when my guild is around as there just is no one to group with </DIV>

[thark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jvd wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't find that solo exp is good enough .  Its not really just the exp but also the play experiance. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Soloing just isn't interesting and sadly neither is grouping . You have to fight in the same areas lvl after lvl most of the time for 5 or so lvls before you can go to new content .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if i'm lvl 32 i'm going to be in el  for at least 3 lvls of soloing. There is just not the amount of content   (quest or mob wise) to hold my interest .  The reward while exp is not bad  the item and money based side are seriously lacking. Add to the fact that random  heroic mobs wander around in the  solo based mob areas makes soloing even less fun . </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The game needs a major reworking  now that this new combat system is in . We need more small instant zones  that are both solo / heroic . Change the loot accordingly .  An example would be the old light house in anotica . You can get a key and go in the back and your in a mini zone. Its not huge but was great for small groups at low lvls. Now take this and make it both group and solo by selecting which one you want and  put in 5 of these per lvl segement and we have a great start .</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hate to say this but as the playerbase  shrinks or stagnates more and more of your players are going to go to solo play. Its been 2 days since i found a group lfging . I only group when my guild is around as there just is no one to group with </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>First of all there is more places to go part from Enchanted lands at that level, Zek for instance, secondly there is these small mini dungeons u speak of both in EL and Zek..If you just explore some, you will find them..I know because I have found these instances both on Zek and EL..I wont tell you where however..They were intruduced a couple of months back and come in both Heroic and Solo version.</P> <P>And If it is that hard to find a group, change server..Antonia Bayle these days even seems almost crowded..</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P> <p>Message Edited by thark on <span class=date_text>09-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:08 AM</span>

[Drasic]

<span><blockquote><hr>Monsterblitz wrote: <p>The solo/casual player can do quests to help boost their xp.  Nothing worse than having a few hours of "grinding" interupted by "Vitaltiy gone <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .. seeya!"</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Yeah that is just silly. Ultimately anyone who never plays unless they have vitality can never earn more xp than the vitality allows. At lvl 50 it would take about 3 weeks to gain 1 level if you only play when you have vitality. I thought the whole point of "grinding" was that you don't care about vitality, you just care about hitting a target (normally the next level).</span><div></div>