So... INT affects spell damage even for priests.... yeeeeeaaaahhh....

[ozbe]

<DIV>I picked one of the lowest INT races because I was paying attention to WIZ for the priest side of things. I know it has been asked before but any idea on weither a race respec will be possible in the near future? I REALLLLY didn't want to have to now reroll my inquisitor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>bleh...</DIV>

[dislex]

<DIV>As far as I'm aware gear matters most still when it comes to int and wis.  I haven't checked but I think if you removed all your gear and buffs you'd have the same stats as you did from the get-go.  In which case it would only be a few points difference so shouldn't really matter.</DIV> <DIV>A respec of race I would think would be extremely difficult to do.  </DIV> <DIV>As is, with wis you'd probably be sacrificing a lot of int anyways-going for gear with wis on it rather than int. </DIV> <DIV>I'm glad int will affect spell casts, only hope they take it to the rest of the player classes as well.  The combat system was much more complex in EQ1 and I personally preferred it-well minus monks having to worry constantly about weight.  Though I'd also like to see gear with spell range increases and all included eventually as well.</DIV> <DIV>-dis</DIV>

[ozbe]

<P>Well from the numbers the mages are putting up, the 15 int difference i could respec now to get would be quite large when it comes to nuke numbers.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Bleh x2</P> <P> </P>

[warrior]

ozbej1, how much does your damage increase per wis?

[Swordmage]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> warrior23 wrote:<BR>ozbej1, how much does your damage increase per wis?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>This is a good discussion of the effect of int on damage, there is no damage increase for Wisdom. In test right now, wisdom mitigates damage, the latest changes (still just in Beta) has Wisdom resisting (avoiding) spell damage.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=2270&jump=true" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=comtest&message.id=2270&jump=true</A></P>

[Ebeta]

Dont' foget that wisdom also increases your power pool.

[warrior]

woops I intended to aks about the dmg increase per Int, dunno why I typed wis... but thx for the link <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by warrior23 on <span class=date_text>08-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:04 PM</span>

[ea]

Your primary job as a priest is to survive and Heal others so they can survive.  High wisdom under the new system fits that perfectly.  If anything, you should be petitioning to have wisdom increase the potency of heals.  The damage a healer deals in a fight is barely worth mentioning in a group or raid scenario. <div></div>

[ozbe]

<DIV>There is life out of groups, imagine for a second that I was talking about that and try again.</DIV>

[Dusty-Hadis]

<span><blockquote><hr>ozbej1 wrote:<div>There is life out of groups, imagine for a second that I was talking about that and try again.</div><hr></blockquote>You should take a look at this thread - http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=23&message.id=13966 As you can see, the test conducted inside shows diminishing returns on higher INT numbers after about 105 or so. Even with the dumbest toon on the server, you can still easily hit twice that with good gear. In fact, the difference between your toon's base INT and someone's Erudite is probably only a hex doll or so away from eachother. If spell damage is so important, then quest for good INT gear and stop whining.</span><div></div>

[ozbe]

<P>That doesn't work because they can have JUST the same gear and would still have the same difference.</P> <P>Don't tell me to quit whining when you provided NO useful information.</P>

[Dusty-Hadis]

<DIV>I can see why spell damage is important to you...your attitude must be terribly popular in groups. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's obvious that nothing will satisfy you, cut bait and reroll now. Then you can make another thread when and if the changes never even go live. That way, you can be the most uber damage-dealing....<EM>healer</EM>....on the server. Better yet, just go roll a Wizard or Warlock and leave the healing to someone else more capable. </DIV>

[mastalynx]

<DIV>Hey op why do you care about doing damage so much when you are a healer? Widsom should be your primary concern and unless you reach that cap of 500 or whatever then int shouldnt be too important. I am a tank and I will worry about stamina for hp and agility for avoidance before I worry about strength for damage and you need to think this way if you want to succeed in the end game as well.</DIV>

[Cowdenic]

Agreed. But Wis boosts should boost healing.

[Ydiss]

<P>So, your damage output is reduced because you have lower intelligence. Consider that the fact having higher wisdom allows you more power which, in turn, allows you more dots through the duration of a fight, allows you to heal yourself more and allows you to take more powerful mobs down (in relation to what you would be able to do had you chosen to have loads of int and less wisdom). As with almost every post like this one the proof is in the pudding and you clearly haven't tasted that pudding yet, have you? Try it before you decide it's going to ruin your game.</P> <P>And, as already suggested, if you want to do more damage start looking for some good int gear. MMOGs change all the time, you're just going to have to learn to see it as a new challenge and adapt.</P>

[ozbe]

<DIV>I love you people, you focus so heavily on groups and current endgame, forgetting that much of the new content is solo based and there is PvP comming.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Get your blinders off for god's sake!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a matter of point I am a fantastic healer and get told so often regardless of how you think my posts asking for nuke info relates to how well someone heals. We have nukes, we use them outside of your "bubble" game you seem to be posting from.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taking a race with a boost to <STRONG>int/wiz/stam</STRONG> will be much more important for the people who don't fit into your pre-defined mold and those of us who took races with more strength do not get as much of a bonus to our melee damage as the bonus to int gives to nuke damage, why this escapes you is beyond <EM>comprehension.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>I fully expect to see posts regarding that some of us, oh my lord... are wating for the PvP and are looking at our characters in that light and the negative connotation that goes along with that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Get over yourselves.</DIV>

[TuinalOfTheNexus]

<DIV>There's a very valid point in here but it's obscured a bit by the 'solo vs group' debate, which isn't really the main issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I group 90% of the time as a healer. But of all that time grouped, very few fights see me struggling to keep the tank on his feet. Much of the time it's just a case of tossing him 5-6 heals and a few buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In these situations, more nuke damage = faster mob killing = faster exp and loot. Which is fundamentally very important, even a 1% increase in dps will add up to a huge chunk of exp and cash over months of play. The power I use nuking is largely irrelevant because the scouts / mages burn it far faster than I can, so I've easily regenned to 100% by the time they're ready for the next fight.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So then logically most of the time I'm playing I'd be better off with 230+ int and less than 100 wis. Especially considering the fact I rarely take spell damage so the wis is relatively useless in that respect too, and it won't affect the efficiency of my heals like int will with the nukes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This doesn't, however, mean I wouldn't want to be able to deck myself out in a ton of +wis gear for raids, or for trying to single group 53^^ + mobs as the only healer. What it does mean is that +int gear is suddenly much more important to me and I wouldn't hesitate to wear caster armor with good +int. Maybe it's time to dust off the stein of moggok from my shelf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think perhaps the only reason this might not hold to be true is if mobs are much, much harder hitting (or heals are nerfed massively) post combat revamp so I'm needed to chain heal on every fight. But that's really not looking to be the case. So it would seem two sets of gear are going to be needed; which, I suppose, adds some more depth to the game - at the expense of mages, who are suddenly going to see their gear coveted by a whole new bunch of classes.</DIV>

[Ydiss]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ozbej1 wrote:<BR> <DIV>I love you people, you focus so heavily on groups and current endgame, forgetting that much of the new content is solo based and there is PvP comming.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Get your blinders off for god's sake!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a matter of point I am a fantastic healer and get told so often regardless of how you think my posts asking for nuke info relates to how well someone heals. We have nukes, we use them outside of your "bubble" game you seem to be posting from.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Taking a race with a boost to <STRONG>int/wiz/stam</STRONG> will be much more important for the people who don't fit into your pre-defined mold and those of us who took races with more strength do not get as much of a bonus to our melee damage as the bonus to int gives to nuke damage, why this escapes you is beyond <EM>comprehension.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>I fully expect to see posts regarding that some of us, oh my lord... are wating for the PvP and are looking at our characters in that light and the negative connotation that goes along with that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Get over yourselves.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>That would be a valid post if you hadn't actually ignored the posts that didn't refer to grouping or end-game raiding only. Such as mine. So, you're looking to PVP and you solo a lot. Get more int gear and adapt. Sorry, but you're going to have to get used to the idea that this game's going to change. </P> <P>Note that this particular change, that seems to be worrying you so, is not going to make a drastic difference to either your solo game or your PVP game. More to the point, the changes are being made at the same time PVP is being introduced so you won't be affected in that perspective whatsoever because you have no pre-requisite experience of PVP to compare it with.</P> <P>You worry too much. You've not tried these changes yet, people have posted above that the changes don't pose a great deal of threat to your ability to nuke/dot providing you boost your intelligence up to a respectible level and, whatever changes do occur, they affect everyone - not just you, so the PVP argument is null anyway. At any rate, the links above are examples of how int affects the mage class type damage, not priest. They're using Ice Comet as the test spell and that's a very high damaging spell, which means it's likely to be affected by a much larger amount per int. I have a 43 inquisitor and I know that all of our nukes (haha, Admonishing smite...) and dots do vastly lower damage than Ice Comet so the differences per int are going to be a lot lower.</P> <P>If you think you're worried you should think about all those tanks who have no wisdom and are facing total anhialation from nukes... Or not, of course. There's a bigger picture here that you're missing because you're blinkered by a single stat that you think you should be allowed to re-choose your entire race over. As stated above, the difference between the lowest int race and the highest is really only one good int item.</P> <P>Message Edited by Ydiss on <SPAN class=date_text>08-21-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:09 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Ydiss on <span class=date_text>08-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:19 AM</span>

[ozbe]

<DIV>You are missing my previous point that given the same gear in the game, the int difference would still mean about 100 damage per nuke minimum. Two people fighting have the EXACT same chance to have the EXACT same int gear you so quickly point to so finding your precious gear really doesn't help out at all. The extra damage you get from this boost in INT from one player to another is greater than the boost from other stats you might get from choosing a different race... THAT is what I am pointing at.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Comming from a large PvP background with MMOs, you learn along the way there are 2 things that usually make or break the fight:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1)  Skill</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2)  Min/max</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The difference between the people is more than the one INT item idea you are holding on to because they can have the same item as you do and the difference in nukes would still be there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fact that PvP hasn't yet been introduced to the game doesn't matter one iota because anyone with any previous PvP/MMO expierence will be able to read over numbers and see how a fight would turn out. I understand the game is changing, I never complained that it was doing so... all I asked is weither a race respec would be in the future because of the WAY the changes are going. Regardless of weither you want to belive that these changes are going to affect the way solo/pvp players are played in this game... it will do so.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, if you haven't read yet the WIZ/INT damage mitigation went away last update... so that kinda loses that point right there <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by ozbej1 on <span class=date_text>08-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:27 AM</span>

[Ydiss]

<DIV>I do see your point but please bear in mind that PVP is not going to be an essential or fundamental aspect of the game, that will remain PVE - I'm sure you appreciate that, though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't get me wrong, I'm looking forward to the PVP arena; it should be fun to fight my guild mates and other friends in the game and, if it's done well, it might even be fun to duel competitively (although I highly doubt that, if I'm honest). However, to offer something as drastic as a reroll of your race just because you want to increase your intelligence and help you in PVP fights?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeh, I do appreciate your problem but to enable people to reroll their race whenever something big changes in the game would be ridiculous.</DIV>

[Dyeana]

<P>Personally, playing a templar, fury or inquesitor most of the time, damage done is important to me.  I hate being forced into groups.  I also hate getting the tells and invites for groups even before I am fully logged in.  Guess what ... I may have something else planned for my time in the evening than grouping with you.</P> <P>I do not like the direction the game is going in forcing the "holy trinity - fighter/cleric/dps-slower" back upon us.  Yes I like healing, but with the current exp debt, planned forced groups for epic and heroic mobs and such, my comment is go die on your own, I don't want grouped with you.  I don't need the bad pulls or over-extending the capabilities of the group.   I do not even want to be forced to constantly group to advance in the game.  I don't mind the 2 person team as long as it is mutual for mobs and exp, and the occasional full group/raid to help someone, but constant having to get a group downright sucks.  I can find some other game to play than spend my evenings looking for a group, or constantly getting out of groups to get rid of exp debt, folks going AFK, ect.  If I have to quit playing for 3 days because I have a missing shard or shards I can't retrieve .... I can quit playing for a week... or I can find some other game just as easy to provide some enjoyment in the evenings and weekends.  This forced grouping was the biggest drawback which drove me from EQ1, and I don't miss the rat game one bit anymore.  I just hate seeing it happen here too.</P>

[RedFeather]

You do realize that this racial difference in INT roughly equates to a whopping average of 1-2% increase in our already pitiful DPS! I play an inquisitor too. The difference between our damage spells doing a whole 100 pts of damage to doing a whole 102 points of damage is something that you shouldn't even waste time compalining about. <span>:smileymad:</span> <div></div>

[Oghi]

<FONT size=2>For any character, the choices you make for gear and specialised training are far more important than whatever race you chose.  All stats should have some importance to all races.  That way, if you chose a high wisdom race for a priest, you can focus on INT gear (and training choices) if you really wish to maximise DPS.  Certainly, it's harder for priests to maximise both their power pool and damage than it is for mages.  Doesn't that make sense, though?  Priests will have the additional benefit of higher magic resists from their wisdom.</FONT>

[Palathas]

This one is moved from a different Thread and this one sort of fits the bill. So.... Hmmm, So if Int and Wis boosts only apply bonuses to damage/mitigation does that mean for just spells or spells <i>and</i> items? In any event, does that then mean your base non-modified Int and Wis are very much an important factor now? Therefore leading on to Racial choice being much more important now? Edit : Now I'm getting myself turned all about. I think maybe that Racial choice will still be offset by stat boosts from spells and items. It just sounds as if the character with the higher stat boost will have the better damage or mitigation increase. Say Moggy the Ogre Mage has 25 base Int but +75 Int in spells and items. His damage would be Base spell damage + bonus for increased 75 Int. Then Chaggle the Gnome mage has 40 Base Int + 60 Int from spells / items. His damage would be Base spell dmg + bonus for increase 60 Int. Thus Moggy gets the bigger bonus. OR Moggy, would it be ((Base dmg + Base Int Bonus) - (Target Spell Resist + Target Base Wis bonus)) + ( Increase Int bonus - Target Wis bonus) where only 80% of Moggy's total can be mitigated? Clear as Mud? <div></div>

[kell_the_kyuss]

I cant wait to see peoples responses when they invite me to a group and I say im a nuker not a healer. At this current rate they may as well give mages healing and let the priests nuke. Or just turn all priests into mages and remove healing classes entirely. DAoC had this problem with smite clerics.  The clerics who specced smite would not heal their group memebers cause they were too busy trying to do damage, and the groups died. I half expect the same scenario out of this up coming change. *Passes the vasoline to the ogre and troll casters* <div></div>

[bigmak20]

If we clerics are supposed to heal then why they hell are our heals getting nerfed all to heck in favor of giving us increased DPS and DoTs and Mezzes? For any of those to work we need to get major INT improvements ..... I SERIOUSLY DOUBT my 63 INT (as compared to my 263 SELF BUFFED WIS) is going to allow any of my damage spellls (THANK YOU REVAMP) to land and/or do squat for damage when it does land !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] SOE ?????????!!!!!!!!!!!! LET ME HEAL DAMMIT!