Bards vs Chanters

[SunT]

<DIV>Well...lets see if it gets deleted here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am confused about what the role of the Chanter class is now with these changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My initial concerns about Sorc haveing more practical CC abilities as well as superior damage and near equal utility has been addressed.  How well is to be determined.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But what I see in the Bard changes is leaving me very worried.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It appears that bards have equal regen (chanter class defining ability), better buffs (bard defining ability), and better CC (chanter defining ability)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nothing crosses groups anymore so each group will want either a bard or chanter in it.  If bards can regen the same and cc better than Chanters then why have the Chanter class in the first place?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Illusionist Invis is nerfed to the point of being useless.  We were given charm but it takes all our utility away so we wont bring that to a group...so what are we good for?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not trying to start a class war but really need some clarification as to how these two classses compare.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Calthine]

My only comment, as I'm not on Test, is that pre-combat revamp Bard CC is at best, well, blah. 

[Chath]

<DIV>Maybe my bard alt will be fun to level...</DIV>

[Lenda]

<span><span><blockquote><hr>SunTsu wrote: <>It appears that bards have equal regen (chanter class defining ability), better buffs (bard defining ability), and better CC (chanter defining ability) <> <hr></blockquote> Where did you get this idea?  Bards haven't had equal regen to enchanters.  Their buffs are not 'better', although some are different.  And they certainly don't have better CC ability.  Besides, the changes on Test right now are not the final revisions so it's probably not worth getting hysterical about it yet anyway. </span></span><div></div>

[Marri]

<DIV>why does one pick a wizard over a predator?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I mean if bard and enchanter dps are to be on the same tier.. we should have equal utility...</DIV> <DIV>so it makes sense that bards are competitive for the enchanter role.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And by no stretch of the imagination is bard crowd control better than enchanter.. maybe similar</DIV> <DIV>.. but not better.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Marri on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:38 AM</span>

[Cuz]

<FONT color=#ffff00>It appears that bards have equal regen (chanter class defining ability), better buffs (bard defining ability), and better CC (chanter defining ability)</FONT> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>So in the new system Troubs get cc? Cuz right now the best cc I have is pour on all my buffs, get agro, and run around. So troub cc is better because of medium armor? Oh wait you might mean our charm! That's actually a 3 conc mezz. Or maybe the level 50 mezz, that's... well I think that one is really a mezz.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bards regen isn't laughable now. The rest of that sentence is skewed perception, or a flat out lie. Unless there's a new cc spell that no bard has posted, maybe when I'll see it then I'll retract my statement.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jenoy on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:42 PM</span>

[SunT]

<DIV> <P>I am not speaking about live servers.  I am looking at screenshots of arts and reading feedback from testers.</P> <P>Right now Chanters have better regen and CC.  </P> <P>In test, bards and Chanters have = group regen.  Our regen used to come with buffs now has none.  Our CC has been nerfed with longer reset times and shorter duration while Bards have been improved. </P> <P>Now I do not play a Bard some much of the info is confusing.  But, it looks as if they can actually hold down more mobs faster, hence better CC.  This is the data I am looking for clarification on.</P> <P>Bards have equal or I actually think better drain than us on live servers and our drain appears to be nerfed as well.  Not sure how Bards have been affected.</P> <P>They already had better buffs and still do, rightly so.  They get equal regen and if they get better CC then why am I here?</P> <P>The issue seems to be a total lack of understanding of the Chanter Class by Dev and no real vision of how we fit into EQ2.  We have a bunch of changes, may be good may be bad, cannot tell.  But what I can tell is that the class defining things(CC, Regen, Buffs. Debuffs) we had and things that were in EQ1 that drove most of us to the class in the first place are being nerfed.  The things they added, i.e. Charm, take 3 conc slots and will likely hinder thier use in groups.</P> <P>So it appears we are trading our current group utility for a solo ability.  There are hundreds of posts about what would work to help our class but I cannot see one thing we suggested implemented.  </P> <P>It makes me wonder if SOE does not want this class in the game.  We really seem to have lost our place.  Live you need one Chanter per raid, proposed test you need one bard per group...but no chanters.</P> <DIV>Yes..yes...yes I should wait and test them myself when they come out.  But it will take months to get repairs if I wait.  So instead I want to know now so these issues can be addressed before they hit the live servers.</DIV></DIV>

[Grisha]

By their own timetable, they have over a month to get all these combat fixes right. I know they probably won't get everything right, but I'm sure it'll be better than you may think. I have an enchanter on test (only high teens though, so I don't know much yet) but I can see charm being important, and improved DPS compared to where we were before.  I spent the first 5 minutes after logging on getting my spells changed, so this revamp is major! Anyway, panic and whining can only help so much <span>:smileywink:</span>  As anyone knows from EQLive, it's all a magic roundabout anyway, round and round and round she goes... sometimes you're up, sometimes you're down.  Bards and Chanters needed fixing, and if they're doing a better job for bards first, hurrah for them.  Still got over a month. The overall feeling of these boards is usually negative and so there's just a "Cry Wolf" element if you're too down on it all without even trying it out: may as well wait till we see what's really in store for us. <div></div>

[Naginata]

<P>Well mana song has been a class defining ability of EQ since theya dded the spell. It wasn't great in EQ2 but if you are right then I guess they are going back to it being so.</P> <P> </P> <P>I am interested in what the new troub CC abilities are though.</P> <P>On live anyone who wants a bard to CC is [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]. What super CC abilities are we gaining or are they fixing Charm to be useful and our mezz not to be a joke?</P> <DIV>Wait, if I refresh certain group buffs in order I can outtaunt anyone in the group, that is CC of a sort.</DIV>

[Oghi]

It's fine if bards and enchanters fill the same basic functions.  They don't need to 'stack' perfectly.  All tank classes compete with each other for group spots, as do all healing classes to some extent.  Bards and enchanters are just fine competing with each other, as neither competes directly with any other subclass in their own archetype.   Please note, my two characters are an illusionist and a troubador <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />