Since I was censored: Combat Change Mana Regen Nerf

[Telbain]

<P><FONT color=#cc00ff>Let me preface this with a new part: This thread was deleted from the feedback thread because I'm suppose to "go test it" and "not complain" until I have.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc00ff>If anyone here can explain to me how I can get to test, make 50, get in a raid guild, acquire the Robe of the Invoker, GEBs, a prismatic and a battlement of the mind item by September 13th, please let me know. Otherwise, please give me the courtesy of not deleting my thread.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc00ff>Repost:</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc00ff>Wow, I thought the first mana regen nerf was a little excessive. This is a </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>whole new world of nerf though. Lets look at this!<BR> <BR>At 50, your regen cap would be 75. At 60 it will be 90. That seems really </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>high... but not really.<BR> <BR>An enchanter with a master I clarity or insight will regen roughly 60 points </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>a tick. Add your prismatic, that is 73. Cap achieved. Don't have a </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>prismatic? Get GEBs and a Robe of the invoker to achieve the same effect </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>with two readily available items. <BR> <BR>This is also assuming you're NOT in the enchanters group getting his group </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>mana regen. This basically makes Battlement of the Mind useless. It cheapens some of the </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>highest rewards a player can achieve. <BR> <BR>It is also a nerf. Right now, you can get the maximum item mana regen of: 31 p</FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>oints IF you are at the top of the food chain. Thats a nerf of over half </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>AGAIN from the last time.<BR> <BR>More or less, with this change, mana regen is taking one for the team yet </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>again. Also, please don't say, "An enchanter won't always be around." For </FONT><FONT color=#cc00ff>raids, you'll have at least one around.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc00ff>Futher, if the base 1% mana regen is included in this figure, then even at 60, that plus clarity is your cap.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc00ff>Does this change include base mana regen? Does it include spells or is it only items?</FONT></P>

[Dystr]

battlement of the mind won't be pointless; clarity isnt going to tick for 60 at master any more.  i was upset about regen nerfs when i first learned about the changes, but i have faith. <div></div>

[Chath]

<DIV>That's kinda my concern... well, both, really.  First, getting a character up to my primary character's level on test would take... more time then I have these days.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Beyond that, as a T5 coercer, I have plenty of power regen effects I can invoke which would easily push in combat regen plus my effects over the 1.5 limit, basically making those spells very situationally useful (like, I let Clarity drop or something).  Without full details on the spells, however, or how power costs may have changed, or how the power pool is now computed, or...  it's a little too early to freak out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd be more concerned, however, as a druid with a 3xlevel limit on health regen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Telbain]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dystrax wrote:<BR> clarity isnt going to tick for 60 at master any more.  <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff>That is a good point, perhaps the items will be massively important and clarity will get nerfed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff>Congratulations Enchanters? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV>

[Aceron]

<DIV>I couldn't agree more that you should test before you complain, also agree that it's kinda hard if not impossible to do atm. People are still forgetting that supposedly everything has changed, upgraded spells use less mana than the current system, mobs damage tables have changed. ATM without testing no one can say whether the drop in regen is to much or not. Your still comparing this regen drop to the current combat system, while it wouldn't be enough now, it may be with the changes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like you I can't test the changes either, kinda sucks, but i will wait for the people that can or for it to go live before I start expressing my concerns.</DIV>

[Dystr]

from what i have seen, i must say i am excited.  no more cracking entire raids, which is an enormous improvement.  i believe regen is going to become an issue on raids, but we shall see.  coercer damage is going to go up exponentially, we will have a usefull charm to play with, etc.  it looks promising, for sure. <div></div>

[Endraal]

Looks good from where? It looks like  a nightmare.   No Crowd control needed - no real power regen . We do 1 grp with +32 power at M1 - Bards do +20 at M1 and buff everything else to kingdom come. Bards mezz up to 5 lvl 67 mobs for 42 secs each - we get a similar spell that caps at mob lvl 56 and and 18 sec ae mezz that lasts 18 sec and caps at mob lvl 57. bards= enc dps Who  do you think is sitting out of that raid? Dear god - talk about breaking a class. At least I finally get why Moorgard never manages to post anything about enchanters in his little posts. Not going to go crazy till I see more data posted - but it doesnt look good. <div></div>

[Amise]

<div></div>It has indeed been nerfed.  But this change hasn't been made in isolation.  Some of the other changes I noticed included reduced power cost on most CAs and spells, including priest healing spells.  I dunno, it might not be that terrible in itself.    It might not look so bad when there's more feedback on how it fits in with the rest of the changes. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class=date_text>08-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:32 PM</span>

[Dystr]

i am sure we will get an upgrade to mez that will work on 57+ mobs, calm down.  our dps is going to be increased significantly, i have seen the spells.  we will be a mage class not a buff class, and i think it rocks.  they arent breaking us, they are modifying our role. <div></div>

[Endraal]

If I wanted to be a wizard or a warlock - I would have made one when the game started. The endless clarities had an easy fix - 30 min duration and 5 sec recast . Concentration slots on most buffs - both grp and clarities - /sigh Not that its really a problem - the new buffs we get certainly look substandard enough to make the the whole choosing what to cast issue fairly irrelevant. Like I said - I wont lose my temper till I see how these things are scaled in proportion to the rest of the system , its just that I have very little faith in SOE these days. <div></div>

[Beghard]

You(all) relly dont have any room to talk cuz you dont polay on test. You dont even have to be a hi lvl player to know that its not all fire and brimstone. Be quiet pls ty very much. Its not that your opnion doesnt count, its just that its wrong. <div></div>

[thorvang]

<blockquote><hr>Telbain wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dystrax wrote:<BR> clarity isnt going to tick for 60 at master any more. <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff>That is a good point, perhaps the items will be massively important and clarity will get nerfed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff>Congratulations Enchanters? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV><hr></blockquote>could you think of any better change for the benefit of chanters, than reducing clarity to merely a small mana bonus?without clarity being the must-need buff in most raids, chanters may concetrate on other important stuff.

[Azamien-Dermorate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thorvang wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Telbain wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dystrax wrote:<BR>clarity isnt going to tick for 60 at master any more. <BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff>That is a good point, perhaps the items will be massively important and clarity will get nerfed.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#cc00ff>Congratulations Enchanters? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>could you think of any better change for the benefit of chanters, than reducing clarity to merely a small mana bonus?<BR><BR>without clarity being the must-need buff in most raids, chanters may concetrate on other important stuff.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Like what more important stuff?  Cause currently breeze is the most important thing I can do at a raid.  CC is rarely used on raids.  so what other important things is this going to free me up so that I can do?

[Sorentio]

<DIV>Damage? ;></DIV>

[thorvang]

baah, damage. chanters domain is cc. with tanks taking more damage through spells, mobs dealing less melee damage, stuns, stifles and mezzes will come back to being viable and needed tactics in raid. at least i hope so <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by thorvang on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:28 PM</span>

[Darmash]

<span><blockquote><hr>Sorentio wrote:<div>Damage? ;></div><hr></blockquote>What damage ? Wiz have spells hitting for 900+, we barely hit 300 you think we play in the same league ?</span><div></div>

[Straylig]

Actually, 3000+.

[Oghi]

<DIV>I wish we could get some information on what the new spells are.  There may not be any 50th illusionists on test -- at least, none have posted.  It's hard to tell how the class has fared overall.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Oghier on <SPAN class=date_text>08-05-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:59 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Oghier on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:59 AM</span>

[JonnyBlaaze]

<DIV>I hear bruisers suck now</DIV>

[thrownho]

Actually no, we can't concentrate on more important stuff, like mezzing, since our mezzing abilities are being taken away pretty much. Go check the Illusionist board, someone from DoF beta posted everything that has changed, and our mez lines are now pretty much destroyed. AoE mez now lasts 8 seconds with ONE MINUTE recast, useless, our secondary mez now lasts only 12 seconds as opposed to 45 or so it used to, also now useless, and our primary mez was reduced in duration and had the recast timer increased. Oh, did I mention that we can no longer cast haste (since it takes a concentration slot per person now, and so does breeze, I doubt anyone will use haste), and our group insight has been nerfed down from 60 power/tick to 24 power/tick? But at least we still have some utility, I mean we can group invis....oh wait no, that was changed to last only 2.5 minutes with a 3 minute recast, and made so everything over level 45 will see through it. Hmm, but look on the bright side, I believe they upped our AoE spells to do 50 more damage, and gave us a nice charm that can only be used while soloing, my guild is gonna love me when we raid now. Guess we're finally balanced. God knows all we ever wanted is to get every single bit of utility we had to be taken away, all for the sake of that extra 5 DPS. Thanks a ton SoE for reading and listening to the concern of illusionists everywhere for the past 8 months. Oh wait no, you just wiped your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] with everything we said, nevermind. Thanks for ruining my class. <div></div>

[Endraal]

Having looked over the new spells in detail - missing quite a few key classes , but those will show up eventually  - I'm mildly optimistic. The thing is - we all need some input from some coercers on test that raid every day. I hear rumors that Vagabond were copied over - and if this is true - could we get some feedback from their coercer(s) about the changes? <div></div>

[Geldo]

Arnt they reducing the power consumed per spell? If I have this wrong please let me know. It is possible that this power nurf may make no noticable difference at all? You cant really tell until you balance it against the power used? Am I missing it here? <div></div>

[Dystr]

you are precisely correct geldoff. <div></div>

[Wikod]

With all the posts about power issues I'm guessing its not going to be even.

[Naginata]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Telbain wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#cc00ff>Let me preface this with a new part: This thread was deleted from the feedback thread because I'm suppose to "go test it" and "not complain" until I have.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc00ff>If anyone here can explain to me how I can get to test, make 50, get in a raid guild, acquire the Robe of the Invoker, GEBs, a prismatic and a battlement of the mind item by September 13th, please let me know. Otherwise, please give me the courtesy of not deleting my thread.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The feeback thread is for testers only. This forum is for people like you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you had read you would have seen the multiple dev posts stating that non-testers would be deleted from that forum. They want that for REAL issues and problems, and this forum for ranting and assumptions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, this thread belongs here only, although it could be deleted again since it starts as a rant and it is against the forum rules to repost something that was deleted. Too bad it wasn't in the proper forum from the start.</DIV> <DIV>Is that enough of an explaination?<BR></DIV>

[Beghard]

<font color="#ff0000">" Actually no, we can't concentrate on more important stuff, like mezzing, since our mezzing abilities are being taken away pretty much. Go check the Illusionist board, someone from DoF beta posted everything that has changed" <font color="#ffffff">Ok [Removed for Content], pull your heads out of your butts. If that were true, legal action would have been taken against him for VIOLTING THE AGREEMENT. You dont know anything about it so put the pasifyer back in your mouth an SU. </font></font><div></div>

[Naginata]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Beghard wrote:<BR><FONT color=#ff0000>" Actually no, we can't concentrate on more important stuff, like mezzing, since our mezzing abilities are being taken away pretty much. Go check the Illusionist board, someone from DoF beta posted everything that has changed"<BR><BR><FONT color=#ffffff>Ok [Removed for Content], pull your heads out of your butts. If that were true, legal action would have been taken against him for VIOLTING THE AGREEMENT.<BR><BR>You dont know anything about it so put the pasifyer back in your mouth an SU.<BR></FONT></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Oly DOF content is under NDA. The DOF beta testers can post the COmbat revamp info now.</P> <P>It is all being posted as the day moves on. <BR></P>

[thrownho]

Beghard, I appreciate someone with your obvious superior intellect calling me a "[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]", however, it is you who is badly mistaken. People on the DoF beta servers are freely allowed to post ANYTHING about the combat changes, just NOT about anything related to the expansion. Moorgard has already said this, so please, before calling someone a "[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]", do some research, you'll see that nearly every class board is filled with people ON THE DoF BETA posting their experiences with the combat revamp. Thank you. Eloze 50 Illusionist of Oasis <div></div>

[Beghard]

<div></div><div></div>Ok sry if i dont read every thing moorgard says but on the beta you have to agree not to talk about any of it. That still doesnt change the fact that you dont know what your saying. The new combat system takes alot of geting used to and isnt even finished so unless you have spent several hours playing a lvl 50 chanter all the speculation will get you no where when people insist on beliving that its all going to go wrong no matter what. Ive alredy seen posts from people on test who reported inacurate and conflicting info. If anyone wants to make up their mindes about it now go ahead but it will be your own fault if your unhappy. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Beghard on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:36 PM</span>

[thrownho]

Beghard, people are not making up any information. I am getting my info from screenshots of every single one of our spells that have been taken by a level 50 illusionist and posted on the boards. That information tells you EXACTLY what that spell currently does, it is not speculation, that is what it does. Fact of the matter is, every last one of our utility spells has been changed to the point where it is not even 20% as good as it used to be. Again, that is not speculation, it is FACT, go to the illusionist board and see the screenshots for yourself. People post here with the hopes of having the devs rethink what they're doing, and maybe listening to common sense, and if you have a problem with our posts then simply don't read them, problem fixed. Eloze 50 Illusionist of Oasis <div></div>

[Daga]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thrownhope wrote:<BR>Beghard, people are not making up any information. I am getting my info from screenshots of every single one of our spells that have been taken by a level 50 illusionist and posted on the boards. That information tells you EXACTLY what that spell currently does, it is not speculation, that is what it does.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No it does not.  Because the changes you are looking at, are not compared to other classes, and being compared to the live game, not the EQ 2.1 game that is upcoming.  Go to ANY of the boards, and you will see nerfs and changes.  People who have acutally played with these changes are saying they aren't that bad.  So I'm heading to test to see for myself.  On paper, I want to scream.  But the question is how reality is.  And this is not the end of balancing by any means.<BR> <p>Message Edited by Dagath on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:44 PM</span>

[Mad_Hatt0r]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dagath wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thrownhope wrote:<BR>Beghard, people are not making up any information. I am getting my info from screenshots of every single one of our spells that have been taken by a level 50 illusionist and posted on the boards. That information tells you EXACTLY what that spell currently does, it is not speculation, that is what it does.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No it does not.  Because the changes you are looking at, are not compared to other classes, and being compared to the live game, not the EQ 2.1 game that is upcoming.  Go to ANY of the boards, and you will see nerfs and changes.  People who have acutally played with these changes are saying they aren't that bad.  So I'm heading to test to see for myself.  On paper, I want to scream.  But the question is how reality is.  And this is not the end of balancing by any means.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Dagath on <SPAN class=date_text>08-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:44 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>who is saying its not that bad? i dont think anyone ever would agree to what they did to group invis alone..

[Daga]

<DIV>I'm talking as a whole.  Sure certain spells they nerfed to oblivion.  Others they buffed a bit, others, hard to say.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm talking as a whole, what they did to classes, from what I've seen on the boards, AS A WHOLE, testers are saying it isn't too bad, just takes getting used to.  And the fact that they aren't done yet, and will continue to balance is what I'm hopeful of.  You can either see it as half full or half empty.  I see it as half full right now.  Until this is all done, I'm not passing judgement.  And especially not goign to do so until I have played it first hand.</DIV>

[Naginata]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mad_Hatt0r wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dagath wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thrownhope wrote:<BR>Beghard, people are not making up any information. I am getting my info from screenshots of every single one of our spells that have been taken by a level 50 illusionist and posted on the boards. That information tells you EXACTLY what that spell currently does, it is not speculation, that is what it does.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No it does not.  Because the changes you are looking at, are not compared to other classes, and being compared to the live game, not the EQ 2.1 game that is upcoming.  Go to ANY of the boards, and you will see nerfs and changes.  People who have acutally played with these changes are saying they aren't that bad.  So I'm heading to test to see for myself.  On paper, I want to scream.  But the question is how reality is.  And this is not the end of balancing by any means.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Dagath on <SPAN class=date_text>08-05-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:44 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>who is saying its not that bad? i dont think anyone ever would agree to what they did to group invis alone.. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You mean broke it and posted that all stealth is broken and would be fixed?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah, no one would be happy about that!!!</DIV>

[Telbain]

<P><FONT color=#cc00ff>I love how you guys keep one staring people and saying in caps "MAKE A TEST TOON."</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc00ff>I've got one, thank you. I don't have one to match my main though.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc00ff>How can I test raid encounters and mana regen? Please stop telling me to test it. If they don't copy my toon like they did with other top tier guilds I can't. I have to go off what I've read and what I can see.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc00ff>Taking clarity down from 60 to 30 is a nerf. Will they scale the epic mobs down? Maybe? Should I go test it? READ MY ORIGINAL POST. Yay I can use caps too <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></P>

[Beghard]

<div></div>Hey noob its a sig. 60 to 30 might be a nerf now but you have absolutly no idea what it will mean with the changes. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Beghard on <span class=date_text>08-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:45 PM</span>

[Telbain]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Beghard wrote:<BR> Hey noob its a sig. 60 to 30 might be a nerf now but you have absolutly no idea what it will mean with the changes. <BR> <P>Message Edited by Beghard on <SPAN class=date_text>08-06-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:45 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#cc00ff>Yeah you realize there are other people besides you in this thread saying the same thing that isn't a sig, right?</FONT></P> <P> </P>

[Beghard]

Hmmm....maby becsuse you quoted me EXACTLY(all except for that ugly font color) it seemed as if it were direced at me. Maby if you had started a Test player when i made that sig all those weeks ago you WOULD be to 50 by now but instead you insist on sitting around complaing and trying to be an internet bully with those one stars. Nice job, your relly helping the progresion of the game, you should be proud. <div></div>

[Telbain]

<P><FONT color=#cc00ff>You can call me a bully, you can say I'm 1 staring you (though really all those aren't me at all), you can say I'm a noob, you can say I'm a whiner (I have a test toon I'm leveling), but sir, I cannot stand for you insulting purple.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#cc00ff>You should be ashamed of yourself!</FONT></P>