Is it possible to really alter a LU between test and live?

[ThramFalc]

<DIV>So LU12 did away with status loss and many complained (not about the loss but the lack of a significant penalty for swapping patrons).  It went to live servers anyways, with an untested change that hindered guilds that depatron in under a week (better than nothing I'll admit).  So the players tested a system and found it faulty and not only did it stay in the game but an additional untested change was made.  Yea the net effect was better than the original plan but it still was far from perfect.  And if the change was made without testing why bother with testing at all?  LU12, like many had expressed in testing, wasn't the answer for the guild system and not surprisingly things are getting revamped again.  It seems that many testers saw this coming, but were unable to effect a change to the update before it went live.  As one of these people I can say that it is incredibly frustrating.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So now we have a terribly flawed system on test in LU13.  The cap of 24 on the status divisor just plain isn't the answer.  Sure some like it because it will help them get level 30 in a week but when well over 50% of the player base is outright furious, its not a good thing.  I am looking forward to a great many things in EQ2 but the idea that this change could reach live servers really worries me and even saddens me because it could really detract from what is otherwise shaping up to be a good game.  I mean it even keeps me up at night... thats how worried I am about this.  I know... I'm crazy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But should we even bother offering criticism or suggetions?  Should we even bother testing features or just look for bugs?  It seems things on test updates are foregone conclusions to make it to live.  We get no feedback despite our efforts and after a week of pointing out how broken the new system is we get a post explaining the system yet again, indicating its still planned for live.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there any hope testers can get things changed or should we give up and save the testing boards for technical bugs?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Btw this isn't a knock on the devs.  They listen to lots of other things all the time and make many good changes.  Its just that once these LUs make it to test, it seems like its too late to be changed.  For once I would like to see something tested and perfected before it goes to live rather than being constantly altered on the fly on live servers, all the while wreaking havoc on the game.  If LU13 makes it to live, it won't be the final solution.  The flaws will become apparent over time and another revamp will be put in place.  Its not a question of if, but when. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am begging you SOE... please get this right before sending it to live.  No solution will please everyone but pleasing at least half the player base should be a bare minimum requirement of any change.</DIV><p>Message Edited by ThramFalcox on <span class=date_text>08-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:36 PM</span>

[Ildarus]

<DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <HR> ThramFalcox wrote:<BR>So now we have a terribly flawed system on test in LU13.  The cap of 24 on the status divisor just plain isn't the answer.  Sure some like it because it will help them get level 30 in a week but <FONT color=#ff0000>when well over 50% of the player base is outright furious, its not a good thing.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>1st off why are you starting another thread? There are already several going. You afraid you won't be heard:smileysad:</P> <P>Where are you getting 50% of the player base. Have you talked to all the players in the game to get there up or down vote? Like others have mentioned in other posts these forums do not represent all the player base. They represent a fraction of the player base. Most players log in play the game and have fun and they don't worry about the forums.</P> <P>:smileyvery-happy:</P> <P><STRONG>Oh will some Dev please here my plea and stop the insanity. Close this thread, there are enough started already. </STRONG></P> <P>I know if I was a dev, I would read these posts that beg the devs to listen and laugh my [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] off. </P><p>Message Edited by Ildarus on <span class=date_text>08-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:30 AM</span>

[ThramFalc]

Well its well over 50% of those posting and I haven't met any single person in game that supports the change.  Meanwhile at least a half dozen guilds I know are dead set against it.  I would say these forums are overweighting those that are for LU13 if anything. <div></div>

[Ildarus]

<P>I think people's responses to this are going to be determined by how you present it to them. I present what the update says and then give an example of the math and most people I talk to like the idea. The only people that I have had negative response out of are the ones that have played EQII since it started and that is only because they don't think it is broke.</P> <P>You can always get a negative response if you present it negative.</P> <P>It doesn't matter anyways. After reading Blackguards post in the news section of the forum they still intend on implementing the change to live. They are doing this after a week of negative comments in the threads of this forum. I was told by Morie in one thread that the devs say that just because it is in the test server doesn't mean it will go live. I keep saying that it will go live unless there is a major bug. And I mean bug, not negative threads in a forum. </P> <P>Based on Blackguards post it looks to me like they had this planned before they made the change in LU12. I believe that was just the 1st phase to the guild change. </P> <p>Message Edited by Ildarus on <span class=date_text>08-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:21 AM</span>

[ThramFalc]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ildarus wrote: <p>It doesn't matter anyways. After reading Blackguards post in the news section of the forum they still intend on implementing the change to live. They are doing this after a week of negative comments in the threads of this forum. I was told by Morie in one thread that the devs say that just because it is in the test server doesn't mean it will go live. I keep saying that it will go live unless there is a major bug. And I mean bug, not negative threads in a forum. </p> <p>Based on Blackguards post it looks to me like they had this planned before they made the change in LU12. I believe that was just the 1st phase to the guild change. </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Thats my point exactly.  99% of the feedback isn't bug related and yet bugs seem to be the only things that change.  Guess most of us are wasting our time.</span><div></div>

[Ragin_Goblin]

Keep in mind that for every single person who complains about a change in game there are hundereds if not thousands of ppl who have no problem with it and therefore have no desire or reason to come here and post about how they like the change or are indifferent to it.

[Ildarus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ragin_Goblin wrote:<BR>Keep in mind that for every single person who complains about a change in game there are hundereds if not thousands of ppl who have no problem with it and therefore have no desire or reason to come here and post about how they like the change or are indifferent to it. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>:smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yep the people, like myself, who post in the threads of these forums are a minority.</DIV>

[Raahl]

<P>56.45% of all statistics are made up on the spot.</P> <P> </P> <P>I for one have no problem with the current changes.  LU #13 will address many of the issues with patron swapping, by getting rid of patrons.  :smileyhappy:</P>

[ThramFalc]

<div></div>I never said getting rid of patrons was a bad idea.  Try to stay on topic. <div></div><p>Message Edited by ThramFalcox on <span class=date_text>08-05-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:01 PM</span>

[neble]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ThramFalcox wrote:<BR> <DIV>but when well over 50% of the player base is outright furious</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Wow, so more than 1 in 2 people asked will tell you that the upcoming change is a bad thing, huh?  I have to see your poll studies, toss me a link to where I can read up on this factual data.<BR></DIV>

[neble]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raahl wrote:<BR> <P>56.45% of all statistics are made up on the spot.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>DING!   We have a winner. </DIV>

[thorvang]

<img src="http://www.venganza.org/piratesarecool3.jpg">statistics are great