Game Economy

[Ethelwo]

<DIV>EQ2 is plagued with an inflating economy. Prices of everything are going up so fast that even L10 to 20 app 4 spells are sellling at 3 to 5 gold for some classes. The price of a L20 armor piece is often 20+ gold now. We all know that the Eq1 economy was a deflating one. Completely opposite of the economy in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my analysis of the 2 opposite economy types. The deflating one is better for the game then the inflating one. Why? because falling prices encourge new blood into the game and inflating prices is an inhibitor for new players. They come into the game unable to afford anything until they reach L30+. And even at the 30 to 40 level range a players can only afford a few items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Frustration sets in and many will hang it up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A silver cluster sells for around 80g on my server. Thats the average price not just the high one. How in the hell is a new player L10 to 20 ever going to be able to afford that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Inflation is going to keep new blood out of EQ2 and in the end as people get burned out and leave there will be ever less new players to replace them. The game will  die a slow agonizing death.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE is responsible for the economy structure of its products. Players can not be allowed to inflate prices to the detriment of the game. If SOE allows this trend to continue it is just one more nail in the games coffin.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not going to mention my ideas for fixing the problem. The developers dont listen to the average player anyways.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will say this though. The deflating economy of EQ1 actually enabled new players to thrive and enjoy the game. That is one reason the game was such a success. New people could join the game and participate fully in short order. Not in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[guillero]

<P>I agree! Economy makes or brakes the game! That's the risk of making ingame economy the core of an MMORPG!</P> <P>It's challenging and brings more life to the game ....but it can ultimately prevent new players joining the game as they can't experience the whole part of the game ...simply as they can't grow and thrive due to extremely inflated prices! <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I am experiencing this issue too on my server and as guild leader I am already aware of new players not making it past the free 30 days <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Simply because it becomes boring real quick! They can't do anything else except grinding their [Removed for Content] off to make some little coin, so they can upgrade some armor and spells. And when they do that they are already 4 levels further and the proces starts again!</P> <P>New players need to spend too much valuable playing game into this proces that causes more frustration to them then joy! <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  </P> <P>I have 2 lvl20+ characters atm and Im going trough this process myself too lately....resulting me to play less and less as the joy slowely slips away trough my fingers <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <DIV>They realy need to look into it as loads of guilds become more and more inactive! Try getting a raid group together or just a normal group to do an simple armor quest?? Takes days of planning and frustration to get a good group together to do it??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well ..... shortly said ...I fully agree the inflating economy in EQ2 atm is going to be doom for new players!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>greetz</DIV>

[Fleaba]

<P><FONT size=3>Sorry, I'm not on test but I've always been of the view that if a few are paying the high prices on items. It tells the seller that the prices they set are just right. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>I've also been on a campaign on our server to squash the plat sellers (figuring that the people with plenty of RL money just purchase there way to lvl 50 buying anything they want with there credit card).</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>I've supplied SOE with confessions via /report, screenshots of said confessions, done OMG too many hours of watching the Farmer groups, staking out the area that deliverys are made to catch peeps picking up plat from the sellers, and best one of all, caught a guy waiting for a delivery (he told me so) and /petitioned to get a GM to come witness it first hand. (Although a GM didn't show up, a couple players that I'm hoping were GM's who play on our server did arrive long enough to watch this go down and immediatly took off after said delivery was made. I didn't confirm this suspicion by talking to them about it, cuz I know they wouldn't say if they were a GM or not......it's against there rules) And ohhhh the other stuff I've came up with that I've shared with SOE about the methods the plat sellers use, etc. These guys are deffinatly more organized then yawl realize.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>What has puzzled me is with all this though is that with all this info I've given them. (And trust me, I'd bet what I hold dearest to my heart.....my very own son that I'm 90% right on everything I've shown SOE). They can check logs for everyone in the game......yet the main culprits are still listed as part of our server, and the most active farming group is still camped out in Runnyeye. Bringing into our economy around 40plat a day from just one group. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>Will a CSR ever give me a hint of what is going to happen with the farmers? NOPE. Am I beggining to believe everyone when they say that SOE don't care about the farmers cuz it's more money in there pocket because they pay for accounts too. YUP. Do I feel that I've wasted a very large amount of time doing all this research, trying to help SOE ferrit out the farmers? YUP. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>This thread told me what to do in order to help out SOE with the farmers/exploiters. </FONT></P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=rules&message.id=18" target=_blank><FONT size=3>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=rules&message.id=18</FONT></A></P> <P><FONT size=3>So this is what I did......</FONT></P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=chars&message.id=31466#M31466" target=_blank><FONT size=3>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=chars&message.id=31466#M31466</FONT></A></P> <P><FONT size=3>All in all, get rid of plat sellers and that will be a good start on bringing the economy back to a sane lvl.</FONT> </P> <p>Message Edited by vcjester on <span class=date_text>08-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:30 AM</span>

[guillero]

<DIV>Well, a lot of gaming sites and other companies said that the SOE macro system is the key to all this mess!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is way to easy for people with little technological knowledge of macro'ing to automate things in such a way they can farm so much stuff and make so much plat so easy these days! Heck ...there a whole automated background macro programs for download at hacker sites wich makes the famous bot groups you see nowaydays ingame possible! <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know I will get flamed for this ....but dropping the whole macro-system will make it farmers a lot lot harder ..so not impossible to earn plat at that rate ...destroying their bussiness and loosing interest in making rl money in this market <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Fleaba]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> guillero wrote:<BR> <DIV>Well, a lot of gaming sites and other companies said that the SOE macro system is the key to all this mess!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is way to easy for people with little technological knowledge of macro'ing to automate things in such a way they can farm so much stuff and make so much plat so easy these days! Heck ...there a whole automated background macro programs for download at hacker sites wich makes the famous bot groups you see nowaydays ingame possible! <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know I will get flamed for this ....but dropping the whole macro-system will make it farmers a lot lot harder ..so not impossible to earn plat at that rate ...destroying their bussiness and loosing interest in making rl money in this market <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>These guys have full time programers on there payroll. (At least the big wheelers) They can write up any program they want to automate anything in the game, and SOE cannot by law do any checking of computers for these 3rd party programs. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <p>Message Edited by vcjester on <span class=date_text>08-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:50 AM</span>

[lichmeister]

<div></div>yes i agree the inflation has been getting nasty... silver/coral go for 40g on Neriak and jasper [if you can find any] 60-80g even the prices being asked for common pristine armour is beyond the scope of a brand new player... i disagree strongly that just because SOMEONE<i> can</i> afford your product that your price fair... that is part of where the problem starts... the veteran players can afford your inflated price... a new player cannot... of course i spose we have to keep in mind that rares are RARE and they were not intended to be in everyones arsenal... my first toon has 1 spell above adept1 and that is a master that i was luck enough to win in a lotto. after that, with the money i made with my hi level toon i was able to hoard all his rares and buy a few more so my 2nd toon could be all bling-bling... i think tyhe idea is a average player who harvests enough will get a rare or two for each tier. any more is a blessing and lots more is a sign of great wealth. i started eq1 about 2years ago and found i wa able to get in on the good stuff with little difficulty... the trick was to supply the hi end players with the stuff that just wasnt worth the time and energy for them to get themselves. That funnelled cash out of the hands of the wealthy vets and into the hands of the noobs. Things like spiderling silk sold for 1plat each on my server and i could sell hq brute hides for 200plat each and velium ores and such almost as fast as i could harvest them... heres my thought for how to create such a funneling of cash... change upper tier crafting recipes and quests to require uncommon to rare chest drops from mobs in lower level zones... by making the drops come out of chests, it means that farming greys will not work . that means that your highend players will have to: <ol> <li>mentor a low level character and go hunting with them;</li> <li>go hunting with an appropriate level alt [probably with xp turned off soas to never level beyond that point of usefulness]; or</li> <li>buy said drops [which are no-value and used only for hi-level stuff] from the new players who are passing through the terrain anyway</li> </ol> [edit] oh ya ive got a one-star troll of my own! <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> i must have hit a nerve with you somewhere! hahaha You want the truth?... You cant HANDLE the truth!! some peoples children, i tell ya!<span>:smileytongue:</span> <div></div><p>Message Edited by lichmeister on <span class=date_text>08-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:58 PM</span>

[Rhianni]

<P>If the prices you list are for rare armor then perhaps players need to keep in mind that they are RARE.  They are not for everyone to have.  At lvl 40 I have yet to have a piece of rare armor.  Let the prices go where they may.  If someone passes up a 1 gold piece of armor that is 150 mitigation and 20 health for a 20 gold one that is 175 mitigation and 30 health go for it.  It hasnt prevent me from leveling.  They are nice to have but not necessary to play the game.</P> <P> </P>

[Keegant]

<DIV>Actually EQ1 had an inflating economy for the first almost 2 years, then it started deflating.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We are still just 9 months in on EQ2.</DIV>

[darasaild]

<span><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div> <p>If the prices you list are for rare armor then perhaps players need to keep in mind that they are RARE.  They are not for everyone to have.  At lvl 40 I have yet to have a piece of rare armor.  Let the prices go where they may.  If someone passes up a 1 gold piece of armor that is 150 mitigation and 20 health for a 20 gold one that is 175 mitigation and 30 health go for it.  It hasnt prevent me from leveling.  They are nice to have but not necessary to play the game.</p> <hr></blockquote>hooray! someone with some brains posting about the economy and rares  people who complaine about the economy are usualy talking about rares , and they speak as if rare armor and weapons are there right... they are RARE, and therefore expensive  i am a 47 armorer and i dont eaven sell on the bazaar anymore because of over saturation of goods and undercutting fulginate armor that i make for 1g 80 s is selling for 2g on the bazaar.OMG.. look at the inflating market.  </span><div></div>

[DaenaeRavenso]

<P>You should have turned in the buyer too.  He got away with it once, so will probably buy more plat as he needs it since your conversation with him lead him to believe that buyers were in the clear.  He's probably one of the players that was so against SE going in too. :smileyvery-happy:  Very nice work on your part.  I do hope SoE takes notice and does something about these farmers.</P> <P> </P> <P>Dae</P>

[Dark SpiderMonk]

<div></div><div>I just wish jeweler's would start making spells for assassin's.  Most of my adept I spells on Befallen are 10g+ while a lot of other classes just pay 1 - 2g per adept I.  The problem is that it is not as profitable for them to make spell upgrades for a few as it is to make jewelry that has higher demand.  If there were people making the app IV and adept IV, the adept I prices would fall.Darkfoot lvl 44 assassinBefallen</div><div></div>

[Ethelwo]

<P>This post is about the impact the prices have on new players and not anyones personal oppionions on what a price should be for rares or anything else. If it's your personal belief that a piece of silver should cost 40 to 80g then you are part of the problem and are in part responsible for the inflation that will in the end keep new blood from the game. It's SOE's job to make certain that player forced inflation doesn't drive away new customers, not yours, regardless of your oppionions on what prices best suit your personal cash flow. All I'm saying is your greed will ruin their game in the long run if they don't do something soon to get it under control.</P> <P>Have an internal in game fair price for a product then impose an income tax for all overcharges. You sell an item over the intended fair price then you pay up to 90% of your overcharge in taxes to the game. It would keep the greed from running rampant. Plus it places a money sink on the greedy. The greater your personal greed the greater you get taxed. Money will flow out of the economy and prices will stabalize.</P> <DIV>Thats whats wrong with this economy. It has no income tax and greed is running rampant.</DIV>

[Kenazeer]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ethelwolf wrote:<BR> <P>This post is about the impact the prices have on new players and not anyones personal oppionions on what a price should be for rares or anything else. If it's your personal belief that a piece of silver should cost 40 to 80g then you are part of the problem and are in part responsible for the inflation that will in the end keep new blood from the game. It's SOE's job to make certain that player forced inflation doesn't drive away new customers, not yours, regardless of your oppionions on what prices best suit your personal cash flow. All I'm saying is your greed will ruin their game in the long run if they don't do something soon to get it under control.</P> <P>Have an internal in game fair price for a product then impose an income tax for all overcharges. You sell an item over the intended fair price then you pay up to 90% of your overcharge in taxes to the game. It would keep the greed from running rampant. Plus it places a money sink on the greedy. The greater your personal greed the greater you get taxed. Money will flow out of the economy and prices will stabalize.</P> <DIV>Thats whats wrong with this economy. It has no income tax and greed is running rampant.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>OMG....here we go on the "price caps" again. :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Maybe I should start bookmarking all the inane threads so I can just post "Go look here for a discussion of what you suggest."</P> <P>And this would work how? Who determines the fair price? On what items? All of them? How often are they monitored? Who monitors? How often are they changed? How is the tax collected? Only on broker transactions? Would you completely eliminate player to player transactions?</P> <P>The system you, and others, propose would never work. If these questions haven't made you realize that, let me know and I am sure I can come up with some others.</P> <P>Our somewhat lower tier inflationary times do make it harder on the new people. I have posted suggestions in other threads for working around/dealing with them. If you would like I can cut and paste it over here. However, PRICE CONTROL is not the solution.<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Kenazeer on <span class=date_text>08-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:54 AM</span>

[Fleaba]

<P>Getting back on track. Yes prices for EVERYTHING is nutz in the lower tiers. 5gp for a Tier 3 app 4 is insane!! </P> <P>It's not just the rares....but all products in the lower tiers. Reason being.....monopolys by new lower lvl crafters. The T5 crafters are either burnt out or just don't want to waste time with the newb items. </P> <P>So when there is only one person selling T3 or T2 stuff.....they can charge whatever they want. </P> <P>For those worried about prices on T5 rares I believe it is a different reason all together. Probably because the majority of the server's populations are finally hitting the 40's, who knows.</P> <P>I still like to blame everything on the farmers. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P> <P>And for my one star ninja fan.....are you the guy I emailed your guild leaders about your purchase of platinum?? Or are you some wealthy individual who WANTS to buy his/her way to the top via IGE and it's fellow plat sellers? Either way, sorry.....but bringing the players attention to this vile practice is my end game. Bet you wish Game shark worked in EQ2 too eh? </P> <P> </P>

[Dejah]

<DIV>Wow.  All I see here is great opportunity for the low level players.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rares cost too much?  Great!  Go Harvest some rares and make a killing selling them!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Low level App4 abilities cost too much?  Great!  Create a scholar, outfit yourself, and sell on the broker to rack in the money! It's not very hard to reach lvl 20 artisan class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I'm just going to sound like a lot people when I say this, but the reason the prices are so high is all about supply and demand.  Demand is high, because there are a lot of ALTs of high level players twinking themselves out.  These twinks can make money a lot easier on their high level characters, so they are not going to bother harvesting low level nodes, or crafting low level items.  As such, the supply is low for low level goods.  But this is a great opportunity for low level players.  </DIV>

[Jizu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Dejah wrote:<div></div> <div>Wow.  All I see here is great opportunity for the low level players.</div> <div> </div> <div>Rares cost too much?  Great!  Go Harvest some rares and make a killing selling them!</div> <div> </div> <div>Low level App4 abilities cost too much?  Great!  Create a scholar, outfit yourself, and sell on the broker to rack in the money! It's not very hard to reach lvl 20 artisan class.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Now I'm just going to sound like a lot people when I say this, but the reason the prices are so high is all about supply and demand.  Demand is high, because there are a lot of ALTs of high level players twinking themselves out.  These twinks can make money a lot easier on their high level characters, so they are not going to bother harvesting low level nodes, or crafting low level items.  As such, the supply is low for low level goods.  But this is a great opportunity for low level players.  </div><hr></blockquote> ^^ I have a lvl 10 summoner with 12 gold and all app 4 spells (My lvl 9 priest has all app 4 and 4 gold, but I stopped playing him untill the revamp to pick a class). All I did was take some time and find a few items that sell good on the broker and made them. I really don't see a problem with the system.  People just have to find there nitch in their city. There is always to make some money. If you want to be uber you have to spend an uber amount of time doing so. Everyone just wants to be so freakin uber that all they see are the adt 3 spells for 50 gold and never see it happening.</span><div></div>

[ajsj]

<div></div><p>Aside from all the whining about high prices of things, I believe that in general you guys are missing the point.  In a free market system, the correct price is what someone is willing to pay.  The real problem is that various areas and changes within the game have flooded the economy with money (splitpaw is a good example of this).  Since not all players can or will exploit these aspects of the game, you're going to develop a class of players who have a lot, and a class of players who have very little with everyone else at various degrees in between. For the folks able to exploit the weakness in how money is flowing into the economy life will be good for awhile because they'll be leading the curve and able to buy up the things that were previously out of reach and causing a general rise in the cost of goods as they consume them in greater and faster rates.  As others have pointed out, this impacts the true new players to the game in two ways.  First, they're coming in after the initial rush of money flooding the economy so even lower level player crafted gear is too expensive to acquire when it is appropriate because the high level players have swept through with their new found cash twinking out their alts and inflating the cost of all goods with their indiscriminant spending.  The second way that this hurts new players is that presumably the developers of the game will recognize the problems they've created and make adjustments to the game to compensate or correct the issues.  Generally speaking though any attempts to remove money from the game will hurt the people who have less of it more than anyone else.  So the new guy gets the shaft again until the economy adjusts to those changes and by then something new comes along.Obviously this topic is pretty meaningless because in general most of the people who raise the issue don't understand the problem (based on the contents of this and similar threads).  The really sad part about this is that it also seems that the game developers (as a whole, not just the EQ2 devs) don't understand the problem because they keep doing it year after year, and game after game.Lets just try for some basics here, if you want to have a player based economy work, remove the abundance of material that competes and ultimately corrupts it.   A very simple and obvious example here is the abundance of Adept 1 books that drop, added to by the recent surge of Master 1 drops.  There's no need for Sages or Scholars because the adepts are so plentiful, ok so you've killed off one crafting class, 2/3 of another class (alchemists don't need to produce ink or essences since no one is using them), and 1/2 of another class (jewelers also don't need to make runes).  And since the adepts are so plentiful, they're also meaningless since the cost is trivial and they are readily available on the market.  If you don't have all your spells at least at adept 1 you're just handicapping yourself, they are the baseline when it comes to abilities and spells.  This is clearly an aspect of the game that competes directly with the player based professions and makes for a number of worthless items in the game.  That these items are player crafted items warps the flow of money through the economy since none will flow towards the crafters that create items that are 'worse' than what the game generates freely and frequently.</p><p>-J</p>

[Ranja]

<DIV>This is I see as one that is unique to each server.  My server Everfrost is selling rare t5 imbued LA for 1p 50g. Other servers report those items going for 50g.  This is usually the case between a heavy load server and a light load server.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, the biggest problem with inflation is high level characters starting alts that are twinked out. The reason why some of these items are selling for inflated prices is not becasue the price is set at market value but because twinked out alts can afford it.  So, what happens is the only people starting new characters are people with high level primes that are feeding money to their alts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In this respect, EQ2 is not a free market economy.  If you could only have one character per server or there was no transferring of wealth between characters you would not see as much mudflation as you do now.</DIV>

[Gertack_v2]

<span><blockquote><hr>Dark SpiderMonkey wrote:<div></div><div>I just wish jeweler's would start making spells for assassin's.  Most of my adept I spells on Befallen are 10g+ while a lot of other classes just pay 1 - 2g per adept I.  The problem is that it is not as profitable for them to make spell upgrades for a few as it is to make jewelry that has higher demand.  If there were people making the app IV and adept IV, the adept I prices would fall. </div><div></div><hr></blockquote>I made one of every scout rune level 20-50 for discovery XP and immediately sold them back to the vendor.  Why? It's not worth the hassle of trying to keep them on my store when they never sell because Adept 1s are better, easier to get, and often cheaper than my cost to make an App4 rune.  They're not even stackable!  Not that that is my main complaint at all... Gertack 50 Fury, 50 Jeweler Befallen - Fallen</span><div></div>

[smogfire]

It is a shame a good topic gets clouded up with some bad comments. I do see a problem with new first time players having to deal with higher prices. But that means that the things they sell, should sell for more. The T5 rares going up in price should have nothing to do with this. They are not for new players. Blaming it on greed is lame. Is it greedy to want more money but not greedy to want better equipment? I think there should be some benefits from playing the game earlier but I do agree we need to make the game attractive to new players. Not sure how to do this. Lets keep this useful. To quote Gordon Gekko: <font face="Comic Sans MS">"</font><font face="Comic Sans MS">The point is, ladies and gentleman, is that greed -- for lack of a better word -- is good.</font> <p align="left"> <font face="Comic Sans MS">Greed is right.</font></p> <p align="left"> <font face="Comic Sans MS">Greed works.</font></p> <p align="left"> <font face="Comic Sans MS">Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.</font></p> <p align="left"> <font face="Comic Sans MS">Greed, in all of its forms -- greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge -- has marked the upward surge of mankind."</font></p> <div></div>

[Keegant]

The bigest problem I see that caused low level inflation is Atunability. Not that I want them to get rid of it, just that the market is not flooded with people's used items so when the horde of alts goes through a tier and they want the best equipment, the demand goes up but the suply does not, and they are willing to pay more, than someone going through the first time can. If there was not attunability, the suply would excede the demand and anyone could afford the low end stuff.

[Fleaba]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keegantir wrote:<BR>The bigest problem I see that caused low level inflation is Atunability. Not that I want them to get rid of it, just that the market is not flooded with people's used items so when the horde of alts goes through a tier and they want the best equipment, the demand goes up but the suply does not, and they are willing to pay more, than someone going through the first time can. If there was not attunability, the suply would excede the demand and anyone could afford the low end stuff. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If they hadn't started atuning, 95% of the crafters would have quit crafting before they hit T4. Trust me, I'm a hobby crafter from day one and I watched the crafting channel. They were all ready to quit until then.

[Giral]

<P>its always an experiance just tryin to find an item especially armour that is needed at any given lvl i play on butcherblock and id say the prices there are pretty much fair any normal items for lvl 15 thru 30 can be found for 80 silver to 3 gold, Sure uber gear for those levels will be higher 1 g to 3 gold for lvl 15 to 20 and 4 to 8 gold  for 20 lvl to 30 lvl</P> <P>with the AQ quests you start at lvl 18 i really dont see an armour issue at all till lvl 22 or 24+ on the leggins and chest armours </P> <P>and by lvl 24 if the person is guilded and by now had money issues they should be learning ways to make money as economy is part of the game and your guild is suppose to guid and help you thru the transition of learning the game </P> <P>Also it is a Player based economy with players deciding the price, if the prices are Ridiculous and Nobody Buys any of it welp then either the item never sells and the person never makes a profit or the person slowly drops the price till some one buys it </P> <P>if on the other hand people are buyin things for ridiculous prices rather than gion and helpin do writs and help there low level player level, and teach them how to earn money and work the market OR worse case senario go play an alt on another server for a week or 2 till your economy comes back down Then who is to blame for Fueling the economy </P> <P>lastly its a player created market so its either player inflated or player deflated Seeing as how on every server it is only a few people who have alot of stuff to Sell and alot of people wanting to buy it than Spam ooc in all areas for people not to buy these over inflated prices  Have everyone you know Shout in ooc, send tells to the people merchanting that there price are way to high and could they please get realistic cause there ruining the economy </P> <P>Do you really want Sony to manage the economy ? lol last i checked there a MONEY MAKIN MONSTER new playstation 3 comes out do you think it will be a fair price of 150 dollars or let me refraze that a dream price of 150 Dollars </P> <P>NO SONY will start out sellin it for TOP dollar  say  $450'00  and  after it has been on the market AT top dollar for  a year   then they will drop there price SLIGHTLY $425'00 and stick there for another year than another SLIGHT drop in price so on so fourth   "NOW" if nobody buys it when it first comes out  and    i mean NOBODY then they will drop the price immediatly down to $375 dollars </P> <P>Art imitates life and so does the market in EQ2 want to deflate the market start buyin all the really expensive stuff and sell it back really cheap ; ) </P> <P>Giralus lvl 39 SK currently the proud owner of 114 silver ; ) just bought a Orclord helm 8 gold Orclord Boots 8 golg Orclord leggings 11 gold Orclord gauntlets 5 gold and Orclord bracers for 10 gold all orange to me all lvl 39 armour and all with great stats total cost 42 Gold ,  </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[WuphonsReach]

It a *lot* easier to start over on a new server then it was back in Jan/Dec.New players need to play to the strengths of a developed economy and a maturing player base.Higher level players make 16x to 64x the coin per hour that a new player can pull in while hunting in T1/T2 zones. While their costs have also gone up, they generally have more discretionary money then lower level players. They also place a much higher value on their time and effort then a T1/T2 player.That leaves a large niche for the motivated player. Find the goods that a 30+ player/crafter doesn't want to spend the time/effort to make, and there's your market. In general, this means:- pristine T1 & T2 ink (which will sell within about 30sec of putting it up and posting that it's available in the Traders channel)- quills, paper for T1 & T2I sold my T1 inks for 3sp each, my T2 inks for 5sp each. By the end of my second week on Test, I had sold half a dozen stacks and had a few gold to my name. There are other goods that I could have made (T2 drinks for instance), but inks are almost always a sure-fire seller because nobody likes making ink.Plus, by learning any tradeskill (rather then relying soley on adventuring), you'll start to network with other crafters. Which means that as you level up, you'll know who to go to for gear upgrades, and they'll be more likely to help you.

[retro_guy]

<DIV>When I started EQ2 back in November I came to Qeynos with about 1gp and the clothes on my back.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes new players will find it difficult in this semi-mature economy to buy the things they may want. It is not geared toward new players, it's geared toward those that are currently playing, many of whom have been here since day 1.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes low tier rares are expensive, but they are not difficult to find.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Back in the early days if I found a Rough Coral, I'd sell it at a friendly price of 4gp or put it up on the broker for 8-10gp.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A new player need o do some research and decide how best to make some quick cash. A few days harvesting will reap rewards on a scale unheard of 9 months ago!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also they should be joining a guild as early as possible. High level players are happy to give away low tier rares to help out new guildies, or at the very least give extreme discounts to help out the new players. There is also heaps of low level armor going for free.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the new player makes a few good contacts quickly then they can advance far quicker than we did in the beginning, man I spent the first 3 months spending every gp on upgrading my bank boxes and bags gradually as the new tiers were unlocked! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There is nothing wrong with the economy, it is booming. Money is flowing in at a staggering rate, so yes prices are higher and people will price their goods higher as they are noit desparate for cash anymore.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also would not worry about inflation, it will even out, and the game really only has a life of 5 years or so, if things get too bad (meaning that there is too much money in the economy making gold worthless as happened in EQ1 at one stage) the Devs will add some huge 1-off money sinks which everyone will want to buy, and this will suck the excess cash out of the economy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>