New Guild Status System and Casual Players

[SavinDwa]

<DIV>I decided to start a new thread that focuses on this one problem.  Many proponents of the new system on test just ignore this problem, but in my opinion it is the biggest single problem in the new system.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For the record ...</DIV> <DIV>1) I really don't care what the big guilds do.  So divide by 24, 50 or even 12 whatever makes you happy.  The fact that some large group of unorganized rabble will have the opportunity to get themselves killed in a raid over their head quicker than my guild doesn't bother me .. in fact it helps since these people in instances keeps them out of sight LOL</DIV> <DIV>2) I don't care if some guild exploits the system ... see 1) above</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, why do I care?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Raising the guild status gives us something to do, it allows us to buy crafting equipment to put in the room (and only the pristine capable stuff is worth it), it has some housing and mount advantages .. but mainly it gives us a fun focus.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what is wrong with the new system?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Many guilds are made up of people that have known each other across many games and many years.  They may have started off being power gamers but since then they have gotten married, have kids etc.  In the current system a guild can have a mix of people some of which play 30 hours a week, some only 15 hours a week, some less than 10.  That's OK, we all know that Real Life comes first and its still fun to spend a few hours with an old friend.  I'm probably one of the "power users" in my guild and only play 25 hours a week if I'm lucky LOL.  In the current system we have 14 patrons, we picked the people who:</DIV> <DIV>1) Play at least 15 hours a week</DIV> <DIV>2) Don't hate doing quests</DIV> <DIV>3) Don't play really odd hours (its tough to do heritage quests by yourself LOL)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But they are all in the guild.  We get to talk on guild chat (although I guess we could just stop using guild chat and make a chat channel).  Its nice to get the little event messages, its nice to see how everyone is doing.  The EQ2 guild system has a lot of nice features.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With the new system instead of not having our very casual players be patrons, we will now be forced with either kicking them out of the guild or just advancing really slowly.  It would probably slow up guild leveling by 60-70%.  There are a lot of guilds like us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, whatever you call it, we need a way to have people in the guild that don't count as part of the status system.   The current patron system does that. If we take that away we need a new method.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sure SOE loves people who play 10 hours a week and pay the same amount st those who play 70 hours a week.   I bet a big chunk of the money comes from casual players.  Why penalize people that real life only allows to play 10 hours a week?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For all those that don't think this is an issue, please explain why...</DIV>

[Cuz]

Our guild would never kick out active members to level faster. However there really should be a way to have people marked as "inactive". It feels rediculous to have to ask someone to leave the guild if they plan to be absent for a while, just to reinvite once they're back. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some people see this as a change that will force others to contribute to the guild, on my side I see it as a chance for others to do so. Plus most of my guild has atleast 2 alts in they're 20s and up. So this change is really nice for that.</DIV>

[Claritin]

<P>Well there are ups and downs with the new system... my main complaint is STABALIZE IT FOR THE SAKE OF US ALL!  You know how many times I have had to rewrite my guilds patron polucy now?  SOE Dudes... come on now... get it together....  However I do feel we are making forward progress.</P> <P>The new system no longer panalizes my guild everytime a major nerf SOE does to us causes my guild mates to flee to WoW... which is good... because I was getting sick of putting in extra hours as a guild o compensate for SOE's bad design.</P> <P>It also helps because it is divided by 24 people max now or atleast that is the way I had read it... for guilds in my shoes this is GOOD.  We have 40 members.... for guilds with over 200... wow.. instant lvl 30 eh?</P> <P>The flaw isn't as big as it first seems.... if I read it right minimum patron divider 12... max patron divider 24... minimum was ALWAYS 12... maximum is new... and it's a perk for big guilds.  I'm lead a mid-size as I said 40 peeps... maximum we will sit at 60.  I will not reap the large rewards of a 200/24 ratio... however 40/24 is better than 24/24 or 40/40... yes we have had less then 24 patrons many times to max the system out... 18 for most of it... and now I am forced into 40/24 but I am cool with that.</P> <P>The biggest advantage of the removal of patrons is simply this... no more drama. "Why is he a patron and I'm not?!?!?" kinda stuff just irks me as a leader... I have no idea who is going to ask for patron and then think if they sit on the nest log enough an egg is going to rocket outta thier butt and ding the guild 30... not that my guild has alot of whiners... but I have been asked.</P> <P>My patron policy can be shifted into "join the guild" instead of the huge cluster F of a policy that it now is.... and for that I have to say "WOOHOO!" but yes it might slow me down.... and it will surely slow down any guild  with less than 24 members willing to do SOME work.... which in friend and family guilds is very common they are typically small and full of casual gamers.</P> <P>I feel sorry for you guys... but at the same time I have to say for active guilds this change is really nice... and casual guilds SHOULD level slower... however this mechanic being the "hold-up" kinda... well... sucks.  I can think of no "balanced" way to fix it... if they allow guilds under 18 members to have 12 patrons, under 24 to have 18 patrons... and over 24 members to have 24 that would be the *best* fix.... but mechanically that would be very hard to not only implement but to explain to most gamers.</P>

[Tomalof]

This is something that's a boon for the casual gamers. Before in our guild (and in the one mentioned in the original post) only those who are the most hard core for your guild were allowed to be the patrons. The rest of the guild was left with the feeling that because they don't play as often as some, their points aren't worthy. Regardless of the progress and how the guild is going to level now, it's the right thing to do making it so all are allowed to contribute to the growth and progress of the guild they call home. None are regulated to the status of "second class citizen" and everyone gets to help according to their ability and time allowed. This change will make guild leveling truely a team effort. Now the team will be everyone, not just the eilte! If you're going to post on how it effects the casual gamer, look at it from the perspective of those that are the casual gamers within your guild, not from the viewpoint of the folks that play the most in guild.

[Jaimster]

<P>I have a solution.... if in the current system, we can click on a button to make people patrons, why not in the new system, there be a little button we can click that says "Non-Contributer"... while I personally don't understand it, there are people in the game who really like to tradeskill more than adventure... there are also folks who due to personal reasons have to leave the game for a while, but plan on coming back. Before they leave they can say "Hey, Guild Leader, I really don't know when I can be back at my usual 0.5-24 [pick a number] hours a day, so for now, can you click that little button so that I (and none of my other toons on the same account) count towards the total divisor?... Yes? Great, thanks... I'll let you know when I can be back and want to contribute again."</P> <P>I understand that a lot of guilds who have enforced the 12 max patron thing LOVE this change - it takes away their need to say "no, i'm sorry you can't be a patron", but that was your choice to enforce that rule.  But what about other guilds' desire to say "Sure, take a month or two off and we'll still be here for you when you get back or the few times you just want to log on for 5 minutes and say hello to us all"... and yes, just like the choice was there to allow any number of patrons we wanted, the choice is now ours to keep or remove whoever we want... but c'mon, i think the choice we're given now is a little bit tougher and so totally unnecessary if they would just institute the little check box that is the opposite of the patron box <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Just a thought...</P>

[Belizarius]

<P>I would humbly submit that the alternative guild status system I have outlined <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=23211" target=_blank>here </A>would resolve your particular  concerns, unless your active guild size is very tiny?  If you like it, please make your approval heard before it's too late. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Belizarius on <span class=date_text>08-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:32 PM</span>

[Lithium0]

<P> </P> <P> I don't like this proposed system. It essentially rewards numbers yet again. Why market the game as not needing 100+ players to be able to be a "High-Level" guild - This is what essentially killed EQ1. A Big point for me playing eq2 was the promise of 24 player max raids. </P> <P>This system seems to go totally against that imo. 24 people of lvl 50 can kill the hardest mob in the game, but would find it amazingly hard ( compared to a 100 +player guild in their 40's, probably even 30's ) to achieve the highest level in guild terms - What sense does this make ?!?.  Maybe Ive misenterpreted it somehow, but that's how it reads..</P>