SPOILER: Instructions for raising guild level in new system

[SavinDwa]

<DIV>[These instructions are to be used for small to mid sized guilds if the new Guild System goes live -- and hopefully it shows just how silly the new system is]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> <DIV><BR>1) Form another guild called Temp Your Guild. Move all alt characters and everyone not a high guild status contributor to the new temp guild, this gives them a home for a few months andd it will be the home for 98% of your players and time. <BR><BR>2) Leave only the 6 highest generating characters/accounts in the YourGuild.  More than 6 would be stupid, less than 6 would be stupid.<BR><BR>3) Players are told to not complete heritage quests unless they are in YourGuild.  While they are in Temp YourGuild theya re encouraged to take heritage quests as far as they can and just not complete the final step. <BR><BR>4) Add and remove players from YourGuild based on when they will next complete a heritage and keep the number to 6.  To keep this managabel only do this once a week and try and move characters into YourGuild when they have 3-5 heritage quests about to complete. <BR><BR>5) players who are on "Guild" duty for the week -- i.e. one of the 6, are encouraged to do lots of writs in between heritage quests.<BR><BR>6) When YourGuild hits level 30 everyone leaves Temp YourGuild and rejoins YourGuild ...<BR><BR>The new guild system is brilliant .. congrats .... you should work for NASA.... they have an opening for people to eliminate the foam problem ..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*sigh*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>************</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why is the above the way to go?</DIV> <DIV>1) Players who don't like doing quests and writs will slow things down (to day they don't since they are not patrons).  So in the ccurrent system a Non-patron converst to a Not in guild in new system.</DIV> <DIV>2) Inactive accounts .. delete them -- they are slowing you down.,</DIV> <DIV>3) The temp guild is for guilds that do not consist of 100% powergamers so they can still have all the benefits of a guld while the real guild is being leveled for them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way, I'm waiting for the offers on Ebay "Will build you alevel 30 guild for $500"<BR></DIV>

[Keetarr]

<EM></EM> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>THANK YOU Savin.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Our guild has already been discussing the fact that this new system (heaven forbid it goes live) will allow for extreme exploitation, as you've just described. At worst, no guild can afford to have casual players in it, unless it is big enough to have more than 24 different, active accounts. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>A good friend of mine put it this way:</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff><EM>"That's what really sucks about this change. It re-opens the rift between casual and hardcore players. That's what the patron system was supposed to address. A guild that wants to advance can no longer afford to have "slackers" in it. Guilds with casual players will advance slower. That will cause the more hardcore players to think about joining more hardcore guilds. It will cause guild with aspirations to the high end game to think about booting casual players. This will create tension and tend to pull friends apart. Guilds will begin to divide into hardcore raiding guilds and "family" guilds. This is the same bad mojo that was in EQ1."</EM></FONT></DIV> <DIV><EM><FONT color=#66ccff></FONT></EM> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ccff><FONT color=#ffffff>I personally have never complained about the Guild Status/Patron system, and have never honestly found it to be a problem in my guild. This, however, is going to have a negative impact on the entire EQ2 community (IMHO).</FONT> </FONT></DIV>

[Screamin' 1]

LOL. Basically, this is the rotating patron system we have now, but with better than 1/2 of the divisor! <div></div>

[MisterE]

<DIV>This new patron system has a place, but i agree with you that it will continue to seperate the casual players from the hardcore.  I fear what we will see is an influx of casual players that wont have a tag over their head running around the server population.  I play everyday but i dont feel that meet the req. for a "hardcore" player my guild is still small compared to the others and with our patrons we have really worked hard to almost get to lvl 25.  When this goes live it will be a blessing and a curse.  One one hand the patrons we have that are not able to produce the status exp like the others, they will be able to relax a bit.  On the flip side the patrons we have that do work very very hard to level my guild will be hammered with a nerf to the current amount of exp that we can get.  I anticipate that we will pick up a few more folks that are currently not patrons but still want to do the work but i worry that it will not be enough to offset the reduction in status earned. Oh well we will get to 30 just a matter of time....</DIV>

[jaythedogg]

<span><blockquote><hr>Keetarrah wrote:<em></em> <div><font color="#ffffff">THANK YOU Savin.</font></div> <div><font color="#ffffff"></font> </div> <div><font color="#ffffff">Our guild has already been discussing the fact that this new system (heaven forbid it goes live) will allow for extreme exploitation, as you've just described. At worst, no guild can afford to have casual players in it, unless it is big enough to have more than 24 different, active accounts. </font></div> <div><font color="#ffffff"></font> </div> <div><font color="#ffffff">A good friend of mine put it this way:</font></div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#66ccff"><em>"That's what really sucks about this change. It re-opens the rift between casual and hardcore players. That's what the patron system was supposed to address. A guild that wants to advance can no longer afford to have "slackers" in it. Guilds with casual players will advance slower. That will cause the more hardcore players to think about joining more hardcore guilds. It will cause guild with aspirations to the high end game to think about booting casual players. This will create tension and tend to pull friends apart. Guilds will begin to divide into hardcore raiding guilds and "family" guilds. This is the same bad mojo that was in EQ1."</em></font></div> <div><em><font color="#66ccff"></font></em> </div> <div><font color="#66ccff"><font color="#ffffff">I personally have never complained about the Guild Status/Patron system, and have never honestly found it to be a problem in my guild. This, however, is going to have a negative impact on the entire EQ2 community (IMHO).</font> </font></div><hr></blockquote>Your friend is wise.</span><div></div>

[DarkLegacy2005]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SavinDwarf wrote:<BR> <DIV>[These instructions are to be used for small to mid sized guilds if the new Guild System goes live -- and hopefully it shows just how silly the new system is]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> <DIV><BR>1) Form another guild called Temp Your Guild. Move all alt characters and everyone not a high guild status contributor to the new temp guild, this gives them a home for a few months andd it will be the home for 98% of your players and time. <BR><BR>2) Leave only the 6 highest generating characters/accounts in the YourGuild.  More than 6 would be stupid, less than 6 would be stupid.<BR><BR>3) Players are told to not complete heritage quests unless they are in YourGuild.  While they are in Temp YourGuild theya re encouraged to take heritage quests as far as they can and just not complete the final step. <BR><BR>4) Add and remove players from YourGuild based on when they will next complete a heritage and keep the number to 6.  To keep this managabel only do this once a week and try and move characters into YourGuild when they have 3-5 heritage quests about to complete. <BR><BR>5) players who are on "Guild" duty for the week -- i.e. one of the 6, are encouraged to do lots of writs in between heritage quests.<BR><BR>6) When YourGuild hits level 30 everyone leaves Temp YourGuild and rejoins YourGuild ...<BR><BR>The new guild system is brilliant .. congrats .... you should work for NASA.... they have an opening for people to eliminate the foam problem ..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*sigh*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>************</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why is the above the way to go?</DIV> <DIV>1) Players who don't like doing quests and writs will slow things down (to day they don't since they are not patrons).  So in the ccurrent system a Non-patron converst to a Not in guild in new system.</DIV> <DIV>2) Inactive accounts .. delete them -- they are slowing you down.,</DIV> <DIV>3) The temp guild is for guilds that do not consist of 100% powergamers so they can still have all the benefits of a guld while the real guild is being leveled for them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way, I'm waiting for the offers on Ebay "Will build you alevel 30 guild for $500"<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>For every 1 guild that does this how many will stick through it and do it the way its meant to be done? Not to mention thats a lot of micromanaging to get something cosmetic in nature. Another thing, its 2 million status to get level 30, which means by your system 12 million player status garnered. Thats 200 heritage quests. Lets say you crank out 12 a week. Thats still 4 months. Oh? how bout 18 a week(3 / person).... thats 3 months still. Lets say you powergame and are well managed and get 4/person/week.... ie 24 / week... thats still over 2 months.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dang, dont go too fast on us. I'm sure if you had all your players working writs and heritage quests together in the guild and disregarding the fact that you have to accumulate 4 times the personal status, you would actually hit 30 faster, or just as fast. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To reiterate, if you had all your members in the same guild together, you have to accumulate 48 million personal status in a 24 person guild. 800 heritage quests. What does that mean... ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) That a 24 person guild is not going to hit level 30 on heritage quests alone.</DIV> <DIV>2) That guild level 30 is still a accomplishment</DIV> <DIV>3) That a 500 person guild has to AVERAGE 100000 status per person, where a 50 person guild has to average 1 million status(personal status).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>WELL THATS NOT FAIR! THE LARGE GUILD HAS A SMALLER AVERAGE! /sarcasm off</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You're [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] right they do and that is fair. It makes common sense that a large guild should have to work less per person to accomplish the same. If you stop and think about it though, it still makes guild level 30  major accomplishment even for their guild. 500 people completing 2 heritages per person is a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] major accomplishment. They did the same amount of work as the smaller guild, but they had friends to share it with...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sounds a whole lot like grouping. In grouping you share xp debt... well in this new guild system the big guilds 'share' xp responsibilities, to the point that a negligible amount from each player garners them the status they need to level, but that negligible amount equals the same amount garnered by any smaller guild who in eq2 terms can be viewed as 'soloing.'</DIV>

[Nolrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SavinDwarf wrote:<BR> <DIV>[These instructions are to be used for small to mid sized guilds if the new Guild System goes live -- and hopefully it shows just how silly the new system is]</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> <DIV><BR>1) Form another guild called Temp Your Guild. Move all alt characters and everyone not a high guild status contributor to the new temp guild, this gives them a home for a few months andd it will be the home for 98% of your players and time. <BR><BR>2) Leave only the 6 highest generating characters/accounts in the YourGuild.  More than 6 would be stupid, less than 6 would be stupid.<BR><BR>3) Players are told to not complete heritage quests unless they are in YourGuild.  While they are in Temp YourGuild theya re encouraged to take heritage quests as far as they can and just not complete the final step. <BR><BR>4) Add and remove players from YourGuild based on when they will next complete a heritage and keep the number to 6.  To keep this managabel only do this once a week and try and move characters into YourGuild when they have 3-5 heritage quests about to complete. <BR><BR>5) players who are on "Guild" duty for the week -- i.e. one of the 6, are encouraged to do lots of writs in between heritage quests.<BR><BR>6) When YourGuild hits level 30 everyone leaves Temp YourGuild and rejoins YourGuild ...<BR><BR>The new guild system is brilliant .. congrats .... you should work for NASA.... they have an opening for people to eliminate the foam problem ..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*sigh*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>************</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why is the above the way to go?</DIV> <DIV>1) Players who don't like doing quests and writs will slow things down (to day they don't since they are not patrons).  So in the ccurrent system a Non-patron converst to a Not in guild in new system.</DIV> <DIV>2) Inactive accounts .. delete them -- they are slowing you down.,</DIV> <DIV>3) The temp guild is for guilds that do not consist of 100% powergamers so they can still have all the benefits of a guld while the real guild is being leveled for them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By the way, I'm waiting for the offers on Ebay "Will build you alevel 30 guild for $500"<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I would like to think that most people have the integrity to do things the right way.  When people start exploiting like this, that's when things get nerfed. 

[rubels]

<P>Thats why we are on patch x as it is. </P> <P>- Maliki </P>

[Cuz]

<P><FONT color=#ffff00>"I would like to think that most people have the integrity to do things the right way.  When people start exploiting like this, that's when things get nerfed.  "</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>If it wasn't for people like this I could still buff lower level people when they get in a pickle. Instead I have to hope s/he yells for help, just so people don't power level through the game.</FONT></P>

[Zenshi]

<P>I don't understand why there are soooo many posts like the op's. </P> <P>If Guild level 25+ actually gave you an tangible in-game bonus (raids that dropped fabled items/masters, stat bonus, extra spells/skills, etc) I could understand why there is so much outrage.</P> <P>I think the Guild levels are a cruel joke. oooo new guild raid at level x,y,z - drop crap loot (if any) much worse than if you just went and hunted in ANY similar level normal zone.  I find most of the guild clothing/armors ugly (except the lv20 shiny armor).  The only thing worth having a high guild level is for mounts and wyrmsteel.</P> <P> </P>

[Kendricke]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenoy wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>"I would like to think that most people have the integrity to do things the right way.  When people start exploiting like this, that's when things get nerfed.  "</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>If it wasn't for people like this I could still buff lower level people when they get in a pickle. Instead I have to hope s/he yells for help, just so people don't power level through the game.</FONT></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's not the primary reasoning behind locked encounters.  Thanks for playing. 

[SavinDwa]

<P>DarkLegacy2005,</P> <P>I suspect we have a language barrier problem.  You seem to think that:</P> <P>1) I'm actually suggesting anyone do this?  Is English your first language?  I thought I made it pretty clear that I posted this just to make a point?</P> <P>2) That my post is meant to be focused on the large versus small guilds issue with the new guild ststus system.  Language barrier problem again?  I thought I made it pretty clear that my issue with the new system is it will hurt small to medium sized guilds (less than 70-80 characters or 30-35 accounts) who have a mix of casual and power users.  Did you miss my point?  Did I not word it correctly?  I thought I was pretty clear... most of the other replies seemed to get it?</P> <P>Or perhaps you don't think the change will cause a major problem with small to mideium sized guilds with a mix of power and casual users?</P> <P>I always try and read people's messages 2-3 three times to make sure i understand them before replying.  I have read yours 5 times now ... its almost like to are replying to a post in another thread that the rest of us can't see?  If English is not your first language then I apologize because that would explain the issue.</P>

[tovin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nolrog wrote:<BR><BR><BR>I would like to think that most people have the integrity to do things the right way.  When people start exploiting like this, that's when things get nerfed.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>The problem is that the guild system as it is being tested (which doesn't mean it will be moved to live this way), pretty much requires the smaller guilds to to do this to "compete".  Now why they'd look at it as a competition isn't totally their fault!  Guilds are ranked, laddered, sized, etc, by EQ2 Players and in game, are given better fluff the higher level you are!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The system allowing something like this doesn't mean it's an exploit - per se - though it would appear to be using the system differently then how it's designed.  But the original design of items like fellowships (which never made it in game), and the original idea behind vitality was to keep hardcore and casuals on a closer level then would otherwise be available.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This system is a bad idea, pure and simple, though no one knows what form it will take when actually patched to live.</DIV>

[Twizzel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kendricke wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jenoy wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>"I would like to think that most people have the integrity to do things the right way.  When people start exploiting like this, that's when things get nerfed.  "</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffffff>If it wasn't for people like this I could still buff lower level people when they get in a pickle. Instead I have to hope s/he yells for help, just so people don't power level through the game.</FONT></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's not the primary reasoning behind locked encounters.  Thanks for playing.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Maybe not the primary reason, but it sure takes a lot of the enjoyment out of the game.  Nothing I used to enjoy more in EQ1 than to be transitting a beginning zone and be able to help out a new player to the game with a buff or two...and once they put in the level limits, it made perfect sense for an "older, wiser, adventurer" to help an "apprentice adventurer".  I am sure there must be some way to reimplement this and keep the kill stealing checks and balances...</DIV>

[gull]

<P>I would have to disagree that this will hurt small guilds.</P> <P>I am the leader of a small guild we have 41 total members listed, but we only have 8 members.</P> <P>We have alot of alts and we switch between playing them quite often. Half of the total members are currently patrons so XP is slow as we all like to do writa and HQ with our alts.</P> <P>Under the new system we would actually be earning XP at a much higher rate due to only having 8 accounts.</P> <P>Many of the smaller guilds consist of a small group of people with many alts, so this new system would help them out not heart them.</P>

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> gullan wrote:<BR> <P>I would have to disagree that this will hurt small guilds.</P> <P>I am the leader of a small guild we have 41 total members listed, but we only have 8 members.</P> <P>We have alot of alts and we switch between playing them quite often. Half of the total members are currently patrons so XP is slow as we all like to do writa and HQ with our alts.</P> <P>Under the new system we would actually be earning XP at a much higher rate due to only having 8 accounts.</P> <P>Many of the smaller guilds consist of a small group of people with many alts, so this new system would help them out not heart them.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It is going from 1 extreme to the other. </P> <P>This change will be great for the 6 person guilds and the 500 person guilds but what about the people in the middle. (Which accounts for most of the playerbase)</P>

[DarkLegacy2005]

<P>There are no 500 account guilds... the highest there are are 500 player guilds... which equates to be something like 250 at the max, if that. Probably closer to 150 - 200, so realistically 175 for arguements sake. Now... whether you want to believe this or not, this is a push for the better because now that everyone can contribute... everyone does. so you have 24 accounts? well now 2 times the people contribute half as much... equals out.</P> <P> </P> <P>As far as competition, I highly doubt that a small guild that wants to level fast will have much trouble doing so. Or a medium sized guild for that matter. You guys worry so much about whether or not you can level fast but my question to you is whether or not that should matter. If you leveled at a decent pace before the patch, I am sure you will continue at that pace.</P> <P> </P> <P>Granted, every patch hurts someone just as it might help someone else, but the reality of it is that everyone will see a helping hand out of this. This is because everyone eventually does a HQ, and thus everyone will contribute that status to your guild, regardless of your size. Hence, your guild will level faster because of it. Do the math yourself, come back to me if you think differently, but off the top of my head, 30 people doing the same hq at 1/24th the status should get more then 12 people doing it for 1/24th the status.</P>

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DarkLegacy2005 wrote:<BR> <P>As far as competition, I highly doubt that a small guild that wants to level fast will have much trouble doing so. Or a medium sized guild for that matter. You guys worry so much about whether or not you can level fast but my question to you is whether or not that should matter. If you leveled at a decent pace before the patch, I am sure you will continue at that pace.</P> <HR> <P> </P> <DIV>Not really. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everybody in my guild has completed all the HQ's except me and 2 other people so all we have now is writs. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Guess what....the writs now get divided by 24 instead of 12 so we will have to put 2x the work into leveling that we were before while the bigger guilds have more people to do writs are are still divided by 24. Not very fair IMO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE really has to leave it as is or has to really rethink this change. I am crossing my fingers that this change won't make it to live but I am sure it will be put live even with all the opposition.</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Rhianni]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>It is going from 1 extreme to the other. </P> <P>This change will be great for the 6 person guilds and the 500 person guilds but what about the people in the middle. (Which accounts for most of the playerbase)</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Where exactly are you getting your information that most of the playerbase are in 7-23 member guilds?  They are the only ones benefiting less then other types of guilds.  And that is what it is, benefiting less. Nobody is being hurt or negaticvely effected with what they had before.<BR>

[eq2mik]

<P>The OP assumes guilds give a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about guild level or how fast their guild gets there. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I wanted my guild to have fun, for there to be no pressure, for raids to be entirely optional, and most of all, for everyone to have a patron flag if they wanted one.  We made it to level 15 with 24-30 patron flags outstanding in the time it took the limit-flags-to-12 guilds get to 20, and that's despite having lost status points from several people levelling to 40ish and then moving on to hardcore raiding guilds for trips to Sol Ro etc.  </P> <P>Once hardcore guilds got to 20 they found it very difficult to advance, because they had done 12 sets of all the hq's and it came time to give out a 13th flag but had bred an atmosphere among their non-patrons as "why should I help the guild now, they wouldn't help me do HQ's before, since I had no patron flag, since they limited them to their favorite 12 people. Now I'm 35+ and they want me to go back and do level 20 hq's? I don't think so."   </P> <P>Whereas small family guilds get a lot of people doing writs together while grouping just for xp, with an atmosphere of cooperativeness, as in:  might as well kill 2 birds with one stone and level the guild while I'm levelling.</P> <P>If you build a family atmosphere where members care about each other instead of focusing on competition with other guilds, and just focus on doing HQ's together when possible, and give members verbal rewards or the occasional tangible reward for doing writs often or helping other members with their HQ's, guild levelling will come whether you plan it out or not.</P> <P>I really believe this is the vision Sony had for guilds, not building eq1 style massive war armies.</P> <P>Personally, I'm kinda of psyched about the changes.  Whereas before I limited members to 1 patron flag per main (they had to choose among all their alts, only 1 could have a patron flag) now all their alts can participate in guild xp the same as main characters.  That's going to be more fun for members, and better for the guild in the long run.  And to top it off, the max divisor is going to be 24 now instead of 36, which benefits my guild quite a lot.  We have 70 members listed but about half those are alts, so I think we're right in the range of having 30 or so real accounts in the guild.</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by eq2mikey on <span class=date_text>08-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:06 AM</span>

[Ildarus]

<P>eq2mikey, this is what I have been trying to say, but was not able to do it as well as you.</P> <P>Good Job, that sums it all up in a nut shell. :smileyvery-happy:</P>