Not one of the great suggestions from the community about patron abuse was listened to...

[Suta]

<DIV> <P>...but then again are we really surprised by that?</P> <P>First of all, the idea of guilds not losing levels when patron's leave is an excellent idea. The majority of us loved that. </P> <P>What we were worried about was Patron flagging abuse. The current "change" just means uber sized guilds will wait 7 days before deflagging their new patron who saved up all their heritages to cashin. </P> <P>Big whoopin deal SOE. </P> <P>There were at least 6 fantastic ideas from the community that were all for not losing guild levels but preventing big guilds from exploiting. And you listened to none of them. You rushed this poorly thought out design into the game as quick as you could. </P> <P>It bothers me that our devs throw major game altering changes onto live with barely any testing or consideration about what the obvious majority of us want. </P> <P>You only have to look at the response to the guy who suggested that ALL guild members contribute to status but that only the top 12 (minum 12 divider or how many patrons over 12 being the divider) counted, allowing everybody to contribute. </P> <P>But I bet you didn't even look.</P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Sutava on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:37 AM</span>

[Tockl]

<DIV>Hehe, 3 new posts in the same minute on just this. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am completely dumfounded that they went ahead with this.  I am also very discouraged.</DIV>

[dejahtho]

um, don't patrons lose their persona SP when they are de-patroned?  i am *not* giving up my 300k personal SP so some guy in my guild can replace me to get guild status for completing a heritage quest, sorry.  not happening.   and if i'm forced to, i suppose its time to look for another guild.  this is all much ado about nothing, imo.  i don't know anyone who's going to scrap the SP they worked hard to get so that the guild can race to 30.  <div></div>

[Dagsxx]

<DIV>Ownage!!  Don't hate the player, hate the game. :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I look forward to abusing the system.</DIV>

[Wli]

<P>You dont lose the SP, even if you leave the guild. When you get into another guild, you have all the SP you won, minus the amount you may have used already.</P> <P>The guild, was the system live now, is the one loosing the SP you contributed.</P>

[Troodon]

<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>dejahthors wrote:um, don't patrons lose their persona SP when they are de-patroned?  i am *not* giving up my 300k personal SP so some guy in my guild can replace me to get guild status for completing a heritage quest, sorry.  not happening.   and if i'm forced to, i suppose its time to look for another guild. this is all much ado about nothing, imo.  i don't know anyone who's going to scrap the SP they worked hard to get so that the guild can race to 30. <hr></blockquote>No, upon removal of a patron all that happens is that the guild looses a proportion of the status they've gained from that patron, personal status is uneffected and the same as it was before. To quote the notes:</span><hr><span></span><i>- Guilds no longer lose status or levels when an established patron leaves the guild or ceases to be a patron. Thus, guilds never lose the levels they have already earned.</i><p><i>- Deguilding or removing patron status from someone who has been a patron for less than a week will result in a loss of that player's status contribution. The amount removed will vary based on how close to a full week that person has been a member. Guild leaders electing to remove a patron will receive a warning as to how this will impact their guild's status.</i></p><hr><p></p>Meh, very disapointing, especially given the number of elegant alternatives players have offered on this board <span>:smileysad: Edit: clarification, </span><span> "</span><span>...status they've gained from that patron </span><span><i>in the last week</i>.." changed to "</span><span>...status they've gained from that patron..." that is from reading more carefully it would seem that you risk loosing a proportion of a Patrons entire contribution if the y loose patron status in under a week, not just what they earned in that week. </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by TroodonIE on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:02 PM</span>

[Tige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dagsxx wrote:<BR> <DIV>Ownage!!  Don't hate the player, hate the game. :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I look forward to abusing the system.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>And you bet many will also. When I saw this I was like..COOL!! I guess Sony didn't want to listen to the players. The 25 patrons I have in the guild now, guess what?? All going to be de-patron and keep the most active 12. Then as soon as one is doing some writs or completes a HQ, I will make those a patron and take one off the 12 I will keep for a week.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No user loses Personal Status since they in the guild. Guild doesn't lose any points since that patron was a patron for a week or more. Guild doesn't lose level now cause points don't get drop. Can keep the most efficient way to level the guild by not going higher than 12 Patrons. Last, everyone can now contribute in the system. This is like saying..Wow I havn't died in a week..when in reality you did, just didn't gain the debt from it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only thing people will lose is the Number next to their name, Standing Points (Guild XP), guess here.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Heck I may just keep 0 Patrons and those I know will do a writ run, just make them active when they do them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Great job Sony!! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>You better believe I wil lbe taking advantage of this. I just had to boot out old Officers and Leader from our guild a month ago that took over 290,000 Guild XP from us. Droped us from level 25 to 22. Think we will be getting those points back since this is now put in? Nope, not at all. Every user wants to help out the guild, this is now doable with your system Sony with out losing a thing!</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Haha, so where is the risk factor for guild leveling? <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Tigerj on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:37 PM</span>

[Sonnyjim_Grumblestump]

I have to concur. While I'm excited that small guilds like mine are protected against a huge setback if someone leaves, I was in no hurry for this to get pushed immediately, and I'm greatly disappointed that the patron system can now easily be zerged simply by lining up a couple heritage quests, doing them, and then cycling patrons to another group of people who have spent the last week getting HQ's up to the last step. The funny thing is that SOE's solution *almost* fixes the problem. <b><font color="#ff6600"><i>But why only a WEEK?</i></font></b> How useless is that? SOE!! If you went through the trouble of coding a sliding loss scale based on how far into a week the player has been a patron, <font color="#ff6600"><b><i>why not make it 60 days or 90 days???</i></b></font> That way the "quick-rollover explot" isn't really as much of an option, and yet the original intent of protecting guilds from huge losses is still there! (I doubt a level 30 guild's best patron is going to have been there less than 90 days!!) Summary: WHY NOT PUSH THIS "PATRON STATUS LOSS" PERIOD TO 90 DAYS? Thank you. <div></div>

[Thesp]

<P>only one week is rediculous, it should be one month minimum, preferable 90 days, IMO, and you lose all contributed status in that time if you de-patron them before that.</P> <P>also note that not implementing an idea given by the community does not mean they didn't listen. They listened but chose against implementing the idea.</P><p>Message Edited by Thespar on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:09 AM</span>

[Grifful]

<DIV>>Summary: WHY NOT PUSH THIS "PATRON STATUS LOSS" PERIOD TO 90 DAYS?  - <SPAN>Sonnyjim_Grumblestump</SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now that is quite a good idea.</DIV> <DIV>Possibly the one I like the most after having wandered through the discussion threads.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That way small guilds can still survive if one of their key patrons wanders off.</DIV> <DIV>Large guilds can avoid the writ grind by on of their senior patrons whos probably done 90% of the HQs stand down for someone else to pick up the torch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll be thinking that over as I work today but at the moment I'm really quite fond of it.</DIV> <DIV>Nice one Sonnyjim!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Although of course there may well be faults with it but I would like to hear of them if anyone can spot them?<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[MagicWand]

<DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Let me gets this straight, you and the other "smart" players are going to de-patron players because one person is going to do a Writ or heritage quest?!!!  What will that other person do that you just de-patron, that whole week?  Well I know one thing, he wont be earning SP for his guild that's for sure.  He will be cooling his heels doing nothing because he has to wait to do writs and heritage quest in order for you to expliot the system LOL.  </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Go right ahead and exploit it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by MagicWand on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:19 PM</span>

[Tige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MagicWand wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Let me gets this straight, you and the other "smart" players are going to de-patron players because one person is going to do a Writ or heritage quest?!!!  What will that other person do that you just de-patron, that whole week?  Well I know one thing, he wont be earning SP for his guild that's for sure.  He will be cooling his heels doing nothing because he has to wait to do writs and heritage quest in order for you to expliot the system LOL.  </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Go right ahead and exploit it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV></DIV> <P>Message Edited by MagicWand on <SPAN class=date_text>07-20-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:19 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You obviously don't know how the system works then lol. Do you really think people do writs 24/7?? Heck I am the highest contributer in the guild and I may crank out 30+ in a week and then not touch them in a week or 2 as I am helping others in the guild. Keep it on a roation of 12 people here and there and it is easy to do. People will hold off a few days to complete a HQ if needed if they know it will help the guild. Heck, most HQ's take more than a week to finish. People in the guild have already ask me if they should hold on the last steps of their HQ's and I didn't even say anything to them yet..lol</P> <P>If you have a user in the guild who does writs every day pretty much, then you keep them on and rotate others who do them on and off here and there. Basicly if needed, you rotate 2 people every day. Put 2 on, take 2 off. If no one is doing any writs that week or HQ's you can take them all off and stay at 0. Cause 1 Patron still = tat same Guild XP as 12 patrons <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Tigerj on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:28 PM</span>

[MagicWand]

<DIV>Go ahead and knock yourself out and "exploit" or trying to min/max.   Have fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I want to see how long that will last.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sounds good on "paper" but watch and do it and see how incredibly tedious and frustrating it will become that people will get sick of it after a few weeks.</DIV>

[Tige]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MagicWand wrote:<BR> <DIV>Go ahead and knock yourself out and "exploit" or trying to min/max.   Have fun <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I want to see how long that will last.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sounds good on "paper" but watch and do it and see how incredibly tedious and frustrating it will become that people will get sick of it after a few weeks.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Won't be a problem actually. I know how our members play. I know what they are doing. I manage the guild roster every day. I know who comes, I know who goes. I know how active my current 25 partons are. I am the one who delete the guild events every day. So I know what goes on and have been knowing for the last 4 to 5 months. I was paying each Patron 25 gold for every 35 writs they did. Even that didn't get them moving as much as I thought it would. Even gave them 10 gold for every HQ they finish. I kept track of all this every single day. I give out maybe 20 gold a week..pfft candy change.</P> <P>Frustrating? Not at all more like easy! I already have people working on their HQ's to the last step. So when they become patrons, they can knock off a bunch in that week. Then they just be removed for the next person in line.</P> <P>Calling it an "Exploit"? nope it's not cause Sony knows what it is in the game. They set the rules for the new system. It's not something in the game that's ISN'T supose to happen. I look at it as being more Efficient, giving everyone a shot to help now that want to help. I have at least 35 people who want to be Patrons. Thing is that I would if I knew they do writs all the time, but they won't and that is a FACT! Only getting like 100 Guild XP with 35 people feels use less. You think you can get 35 lev 45 - 50 players all doing writs at the same time? HA! You show me a user who is in a guild that isn't level 50 doing at least 25+ writs a week every week. The only people I been seeing doing writs are the lev 50 players, Why? cause there isn't much else to do cept raiding or crafting. They also may not be in a guild where they can even raid cause they don't have enough people, so they do the next best thing, level their guild.</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Tigerj on <span class=date_text>07-21-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:12 AM</span>

[Thesp]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tigerj wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Calling it an "Exploit"? nope it's not cause Sony knows what it is in the game. They set the rules for the new system. It's not something in the game that's ISN'T supose to happen. I look at it as being more Efficient, </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You're right, its not an exploit if thats how the system gets implemented. However, it is giving a larger guild an advantage over a smaller guild, which isn't right, ethically IMO. If they want to do it this way, fine, its their game they set the rules but alot of us feel that this change goes against the entire point of the guild leveling system up to this point. This is much more than just trying to do "something nice" for the players, its a drastic and fundamental change to how guilds level.</DIV>