Why is Sony noobifying and killing it's own game?

[Cusashorn]

<DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=21784" target=_blank>First off, Yes I am aware of this thread here.</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm looking over today's live update. Tis a sad day for Everquest 2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here are the highs:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Changing Bind point</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Quest Journal increased to 75.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Guilds don't lose XP if a patron is removed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Artisan Newbie guides.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- The Quest Completion Fanfair. I've missed that sound so much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here are the lows:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Heritage quests now count towards your 75 quests.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Heritage quests can now be deleted. <STRONG>WHY!?????</STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Access requirements are being removed on all the major zones. What business does a level 17 have in Lavastorm unless he's a level 42 artisan?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Loot Improvements. By adding coin loot to monsters, Sony is intentionally killing thier server's economies by letting players inflate the market by letting them pharm the hell out of anything that moves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Removing tickets that let us travel to the deeper zones. I don't want Nektulos forest and Thundering Steppes to serve as hubs. I want to buy a ticket to Everfrost and save myself 2 zone load times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Status loots. Great. Why do I get the feeling that the only status loots you'll ever find drop off raid mobs who give also give status by killing them?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Instance Zone limitations. Yeah. This will be very nice. Some players might actually have business to attend to inside these zones. Nothing worse than getting booted out 20 seconds after you enter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Locking a hotkey window will now prevent you from dragging hotkey icons from it. I Have to switch through numerous abilities all the time. Especially when I'm mentoring. I keep the window locked so I don't accidentally throw it around my screen. This is an annoying change at best.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This reminds me of when they n00bified Everquest by having all noobies start off with 20 food and drink and a bag to hold it in, and they changed it so that players respawned with thier gear untill level 11, and they didn't start losing XP untill level 11.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:35 AM</span>

[Kenazeer]

First off I ahve to say I see a lot to like in LU 12. My specicific comments on your objections below.<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=21784" target=_blank>First off, Yes I am aware of this thread here.</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm looking over today's live update. Tis a sad day for Everquest 2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here are the highs:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Changing Bind point</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Quest Journal increased to 75.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Guilds don't lose XP if a patron is removed.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Artisan Newbie guides.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- The Quest Completion Fanfair. I've missed that sound so much.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here are the lows:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Heritage quests now count towards your 75 quests.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>They upped the cap +25...there are what 21 heritages...so we netted four additional slots even if you ahd all heritages active at the same time. Can't really see a reason to complain here.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Heritage quests can now be deleted. <STRONG>WHY!?????</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Someone might want to? There is always the confirmation box to guard against error. I think all the quests, save maybe wholesaler tasks/ TS writs shoudl be deletable.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Access requirements are being removed on all the major zones. What business does a level 17 have in Lavastorm unless he's a level 42 artisan?</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>The access quests for regular content was silly to begin with. Should have been this way since the start. For epic or quest related stuff maybe, but to be able to get to the next regular adventure zone?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Loot Improvements. By adding coin loot to monsters, Sony is intentionally killing thier server's economies by letting players inflate the market by letting them pharm the hell out of anything that moves.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Probably the exact equivilant coin as would be gained by selling the loot so really no chnage. If people weren't out farming dog spit....I doubt they will be out farming for 37c (or tier adjusted amount).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Removing tickets that let us travel to the deeper zones. I don't want Nektulos forest and Thundering Steppes to serve as hubs. I want to buy a ticket to Everfrost and save myself 2 zone load times.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Kinda agree here.</FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Status loots. Great. Why do I get the feeling that the only status loots you'll ever find drop off raid mobs who give also give status by killing them?</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>If you read the details they speak in plural terms....which implies at the worst umcommon, not raid loot.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Instance Zone limitations. Yeah. This will be very nice. Some players might actually have business to attend to inside these zones. Nothing worse than getting booted out 20 seconds after you enter.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>If an instance was designed for 24 people that is all that should be in there. Since we have cross zone invites there seems to be no reason why this should be an issue any longer.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Locking a hotkey window will now prevent you from dragging hotkey icons from it. I Have to switch through numerous abilities all the time. Especially when I'm mentoring. I keep the window locked so I don't accidentally throw it around my screen. This is an annoying change at best.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Drag them from your book. For every person such as you who dont like this change there are 100 of us cheering.<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This reminds me of when they n00bified Everquest by having all noobies start off with 20 food and drink and a bag to hold it in, and they changed it so that players respawned with thier gear untill level 11, and they didn't start losing XP untill level 11.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <SPAN class=date_text>07-20-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:35 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[EtoilePirate]

<P>Just some comments from someone who's been playing the hell out of this update on Test. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=21784" target=_blank>First off, Yes I am aware of this thread here.</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Access requirements are being removed on all the major zones. What business does a level 17 have in Lavastorm unless he's a level 42 artisan?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6666ff>I do have a gut reaction of getting ticked off too, because it was hard work for me, but after having watched a bunch of level 11 and 12 toons run across my path while I was doing a writ in Everfrost, it came to me that I guess the glory day of the Nek run is out. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  A level 15 toon simply can't survive by him- or herself in the high-end zones for long, so if they want to scope out what they can, fine, but if they want to, say, go look at Perma, I'm just going to laugh.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Loot Improvements. By adding coin loot to monsters, Sony is intentionally killing thier server's economies by letting players inflate the market by letting them pharm the hell out of anything that moves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6666ff>In roughly 75-80 Bitterwind Explorers and Pioneers yesterday, I had three coin drops of 11-16 silver each.  I was initially worried about massive inflation too, but that's less than I used to make in a day off of vendor trash.  No concern there.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Removing tickets that let us travel to the deeper zones. I don't want Nektulos forest and Thundering Steppes to serve as hubs. I want to buy a ticket to Everfrost and save myself 2 zone load times.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6666ff>That, I'm with you on.  The new thing is mostly fine, and I definitely like FINALLY being able to get to Lavastorm without sprinting across the EL, but I have faster zone loads than many, many people and it's still a pain in the butt.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Status loots. Great. Why do I get the feeling that the only status loots you'll ever find drop off raid mobs who give also give status by killing them?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6666ff>Nope.  Wrong, sorry.  In doing the same 75-80 Bitterwind Explorers and Pioneers yesterday, I had something likt 7-10 of the T5 status drops, good for 400 points each (with the amount going to your guild defined, as ever, by the number of patrons; for me I got 400 pts personal status for each, and my guild got 17 points).</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Instance Zone limitations. Yeah. This will be very nice. Some players might actually have business to attend to inside these zones. Nothing worse than getting booted out 20 seconds after you enter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6666ff>This I can't speak to; one of the things about low population on Test is that I've never been in an instance that heavily loaded unless we were specifically testing something.  Maybe someone else will have something productive to say...</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Locking a hotkey window will now prevent you from dragging hotkey icons from it. I Have to switch through numerous abilities all the time. Especially when I'm mentoring. I keep the window locked so I don't accidentally throw it around my screen. This is an annoying change at best.<BR></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#6666ff>I know what you mean about mentoring, but I have to say, I'm in favor of this one.  I'd rather have to unlock the hotbar to set up a new mentor bar than to ever again face the embarassment of getting a group killed because my mouse key stuck and I ended up swapping out Escape for Tracking.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Anyway, as you say, there are both good and bad things about Update #12, but the ones that made me rant and scream when they first showed up in the Test patcher last week actually don't seem all that bad in practice now that I've had a week to get used to them.<BR>

[Cusashorn]

<DIV>Well. They did change one thing about the Ticket thing:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They added bells that take you directly to Everfrost and Lavastorm directly from TS and Nek...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But still I would prefer the old way.</DIV>

[Cuz]

<P>What exactly in there makes EQ2 more noobi~ish? </P> <P>The part where the major zones won't have acces quests or level restrictions? I think this in the attempt to please those like me that aren't big fans of "zones". Remove the restrictions and the world will seem more like one, and less like a bunch of outdoor dungeons. A feeling that I used to love in my old MMO days, wandering lost surrounded by stuff that could kill me when they slept. All in the name of exploration, loved it. Anyways, this doesn't make the game easier. </P> <DIV>The part where now EQ2 will have 2 hubs? Sorry but having gathering places for players can only be good. It'll give the game a sense of community that it sorely needs. This doesn't make the game easier either.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The part where the heritage quests take up space in your journal and that you can delete them? Don't know why they did this, but it doesn't make the game noobi~ish. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The part where the mobs can drop coin? Here finaly we found something that can make the game easier. Instead of carrying an extra canine saliva I'll get 10 silver. Hey it's one slot less in my bag that's taken up by junk. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The part where they won't let 567 people in 24 people zone (more than likely raid)? Shouldn't this make it harder?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The part where the hotkeys will be locked? Yeah this'll make my life a lot easier for two reasons. First, I won't get angry because my taunts aren't coming out because I'm panicking and pitching my icons at the mobs instead of the taunts. Second, I won't be throwing my keyboard after my icon in frustration. However, it seems like it'll make things thougher for you. So I guess this one isn't noobifying the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stop using the word noob. You are in effect insulting everyone that likes some of these changes. And except for one, and it is trivial, nothing makes the game easier per say. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[borg0]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR> <DIV>- Locking a hotkey window will now prevent you from dragging hotkey icons from it. I Have to switch through numerous abilities all the time. Especially when I'm mentoring. I keep the window locked so I don't accidentally throw it around my screen. This is an annoying change at best.<BR></DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <P>The Save/Load hotkeys command is a godsend for times like this.  See more details in this thread here:</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=tips&message.id=3445" target=_blank>Save Hotkeys Every Time You Ding</A></P>

[Culann Heartsto]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Cusashorn wrote:<div></div> <div><a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=21784" target="_blank">First off, Yes I am aware of this thread here.</a></div> <div> </div> <div>I'm looking over today's live update. Tis a sad day for Everquest 2.</div> <div> </div> <div>Here are the highs:</div> <div> </div> <div>- Changing Bind point</div> <div> </div> <div>- Quest Journal increased to 75.</div> <div> </div> <div>- Guilds don't lose XP if a patron is removed.</div> <div> </div> <div>- Artisan Newbie guides.</div> <div> </div> <div>- The Quest Completion Fanfair. I've missed that sound so much.</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Here are the lows:</div> <div> </div> <div>- Heritage quests now count towards your 75 quests. <font color="#ffff00">You get 75 quests now..I'm still trying to understand why this is a issue..I see no problems with it.</font> </div> <div> </div> <div>- Heritage quests can now be deleted. <strong>WHY!????? </strong></div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#ffff00">Why not?  Again I don't see anything wrong with this..and in fact I wondered for a long time why you couldn't delete them or some of the tradeskill task stuff.  Unless you're just being careless with your quest journal, this shouldn't be a problem. </font>- Access requirements are being removed on all the major zones. What business does a level 17 have in Lavastorm unless he's a level 42 artisan? <font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">Same reason I zone in solo to Epic instances to see what's in there at level 50.  Same reason I buff up, ward myself and run about in places I've never been before, etc.  Really, what's it to you if a level 17 wants to see more than Antonica for the first 20 levels, then TS for the next 7-8, then Feerott, then LS & EF?  I mean..does it impact you directly so much there's a problem?  What mechanics are affected by them being in the zone?</font> </div> <div> </div> <div>- Loot Improvements. By adding coin loot to monsters, Sony is intentionally killing thier server's economies by letting players inflate the market by letting them pharm the hell out of anything that moves. <font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">I think you're grasping at straws here..even from mobs in CT, it's usually -1- gold and a lil silver in extra..this is a perk, not a detriment.  And [Removed for Content] is 'pharm' ?  Are you meaning farm by that?</font> </div> <div> </div> <div>- Removing tickets that let us travel to the deeper zones. I don't want Nektulos forest and Thundering Steppes to serve as hubs. I want to buy a ticket to Everfrost and save myself 2 zone load times. <font color="#ffff00">So use the Gnome in QH instead of the Harbor Master.  Problem solved.  </font> </div> <div> </div> <div>- Status loots. Great. Why do I get the feeling that the only status loots you'll ever find drop off raid mobs who give also give status by killing them? <font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">GIven I have about 40 of these to turn in already from killing regular mobs here and there..I'd say you're just whining about this one.</font> </div> <div> </div> <div>- Instance Zone limitations. Yeah. This will be very nice. Some players might actually have business to attend to inside these zones. Nothing worse than getting booted out 20 seconds after you enter. <font color="#ffff00">Still see no problem with this myself...dunno..does this constitute whining again?</font> </div> <div> </div> <div>- Locking a hotkey window will now prevent you from dragging hotkey icons from it. I Have to switch through numerous abilities all the time. Especially when I'm mentoring. I keep the window locked so I don't accidentally throw it around my screen. This is an annoying change at best.</div> <div> <font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00"> This is great, at the least.  I'm guessing you do not play a tank with multiple taunts, and have had the complete muck-up of pulling a taunt off, placing it somewhere else, and in the heat of fighting, moving the one you just displaced somewhere else..and on and on until your hotkey bar resembles nothing that it used to.  This is definitely not good if you're trying to hold the aggro and be part of the shieldwall.</font> <font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">Insofar as changing the keys..is it really that much effort to right click, select window properties, remove the check..make your changes..put the check back in and hit okay?  That's a problem...how?  If it's mentoring..just devote two hotkey bars for it or etc.  I'm struggling here to see why making a change that quickly somehow constitutes a problem.</font> </div> <div> </div> <div>This reminds me of when they n00bified Everquest by having all noobies start off with 20 food and drink and a bag to hold it in, and they changed it so that players respawned with thier gear untill level 11, and they didn't start losing XP untill level 11. <font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00">I was there when they did that..didn't bother me there either.  Maybe SOE is finally trying to TAKE CARE of their game rather than making it so frustrating that people leave left and right for WoW or something.  Perhaps...just perhaps the faint glimmer of hope for people is there buried in SOE's corporate hivemind somewhere that they can play EQ without everything taking either A) forever or B) a ton of people and (A) both.  So far..all the negatives you listed, aren't negative to me, period...and some were actually positives. =)  Perhaps you need to be looking for a MMO that's sufficiently more difficult and suits you better?</font> </div><p>Message Edited by Cusashorn on <span class="date_text">07-20-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:35 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Culann Heartstone on <span class=date_text>07-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:53 AM</span>

[Cecil_Stri]

<P>Quest  journal thing is all about server stability.</P> <P> </P> <P>Deleteing em is cause some people may not want to go back and camp mobs from greater lightstone and do not want it crowding the journal up.</P> <P> </P> <P>All in all tho.. the OP is nit picking about really dumb things and complaining about stuff he/she is totaly ignorant about (status loo drops off any mob)</P>

[Ashare]

Nope, deletable heritage quests are only there for one thing, as explainend by the devs. There is at least one, maybe two, heritages that can be bugged often, and that result in "locked and incompletable" quest. With non-deletable quest, you are struck. Can't finish it, can't restart it, because of a game bug. And now, the tricky thing. The game flag that make a quest delatable or not is currently the same flag that make the quest count against the maximum quests number in the quest journal. So they HAD to put heritages deletable for ppl to be able to restart them, and doing it they made them count against max quests limit. So they put a greater number of quests to the journal(only because the servers were able to support the augmented charge resulting from that) until they modify the game mechanics to have a different flag for quest deleting and quests that count in the limit. So you got your answer.<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Cusashorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ashareth wrote:<BR>Nope, deletable heritage quests are only there for one thing, as explainend by the devs.<BR><BR>There is at least one, maybe two, heritages that can be bugged often, and that result in "locked and incompletable" quest.<BR>With non-deletable quest, you are struck. Can't finish it, can't restart it, because of a game bug.<BR><BR><BR>And now, the tricky thing. The game flag that make a quest delatable or not is currently the same flag that make the quest count against the maximum quests number in the quest journal.<BR><BR>So they HAD to put heritages deletable for ppl to be able to restart them, and doing it they made them count against max quests limit.<BR><BR>So they put a greater number of quests to the journal(only because the servers were able to support the augmented charge resulting from that) until they modify the game mechanics to have a different flag for quest deleting and quests that count in the limit.<BR><BR>So you got your answer.<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Hmm. I see then. But I was thinking why have them count towards your 75? Why not just leave them as is?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That makes sense though, with some quests becomming bugged.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I noticed that Hallmark quests now count towards your 75 as well. They can be deleted too.</DIV>

[Tockl]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cusashorn wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>Hmm. I see then. But I was thinking why have them count towards your 75? Why not just leave them as is?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That makes sense though, with some quests becomming bugged.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I noticed that Hallmark quests now count towards your 75 as well. They can be deleted too.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ashareth wrote:<BR><BR>And now, the tricky thing. The game flag that make a quest delatable or not is currently the same flag that make the quest count against the maximum quests number in the quest journal.<BR><BR>So they HAD to put heritages deletable for ppl to be able to restart them, and doing it they made them count against max quests limit.<BR><BR>So they put a greater number of quests to the journal(only because the servers were able to support the augmented charge resulting from that) until they modify the game mechanics to have a different flag for quest deleting and quests that count in the limit.<BR><BR>So you got your answer.<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE>Bingo <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR></DIV>

[NUKER 1]

i think the reason more then anything for the coin on mobs instead of vendor trash.. was so when ya were grouping killing stuff everyone got some coin... it should help witht eh people who seemed to get bad rolls all the time never getting any of even the trash... from what i've experienced so far the coin is the same as when it was vendor fodder.. if your in a group tho everyone gets an equal amout.. helping to promote grouping