Now that you are going to hand me my LvL 30 Guild I have a few more wants

[Dureck_]

<DIV><SPAN class=059155120-19072005> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>I want enough Plat to buy everyone in my guild the Magic Carpets or Spirit <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> H</FONT></SPAN>orses<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> that they want. </FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#ffffff>I'd like ebon clusters for all my rotating patrons to complete the BBC heritage quest.<BR><BR>I want a full pristine crafted Ebon suite.<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>  </FONT></SPAN>Or a nice <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>s</FONT></SPAN>hiny one like Tunabash has<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> (even if we all know he had to earn his).  <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>I</FONT></FONT></SPAN> already have the breastplate<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>, </FONT></SPAN>so <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>I </FONT></SPAN> guess <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> I </FONT></SPAN> can keep the other for a spare. (besides I'd look better then an Ogre in it).<BR><BR>I would like you to <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> m</FONT></SPAN>ail m<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>e</FONT></SPAN> my primatic weapons.<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>  </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>I </FONT></SPAN>'ll be waiting by the box.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>I'd like to be able to forge my wrymsteel blades in the crafting hall.<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>   N</FONT></SPAN>o reason we should have to fight<BR>to keep our smith safe after all... it's too hard to do.<BR><BR>I'd like to have my character crafting class up'd to 50 also while we are at it.<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>   </FONT></SPAN>I hate crafting ya know<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>  so there is </FONT></SPAN>no reason<BR>it should be so hard to do.<BR><BR><SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> <FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3>Please</FONT> </FONT></SPAN>add on the last 4 levels <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> I</FONT></SPAN> need to reach 50 in adventuring<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>  so </FONT></SPAN>all <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> I </FONT></SPAN> have to do is chat.<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>   I</FONT></SPAN>t's really hard<BR>killing enough mobs to get my next level.. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>And<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> I </FONT></SPAN> really hate having to buy a ticket to EF, LF, Ferrott<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>.  Can </FONT></SPAN>you just put little portals in town so <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> I</FONT></SPAN> don't <BR>have to zone over to QH<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>  and pay for my ticket?</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>Oh yah.. one more thing.. can you make all the raid mobs pop when i login.  I'd like them to spawn in my room<BR>so i don't have to go looking for them.. And i'd like for them to drop Master chests.. 3 or 4 at time..  Now don't<BR>get me wrong.. I don't want to have to actualy fight them.. just spawn and die, drop the chests  and let me loot<BR>them.  i mean gosh.. who wants a challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Please keep watching this thread<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> .  I'll </FONT></SPAN>add more wants as <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>I</FONT></SPAN> go. <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>   </FONT></SPAN>I'm sure <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> I</FONT></SPAN>'ll whine enough to get what <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> I </FONT></SPAN> want<BR>since you seem to want to make it easy for everyone, no challenge.<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2>   </FONT></SPAN>I mean <SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> g</FONT></SPAN>osh<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> ...</FONT></SPAN>who needs a challenge<SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> ?? </FONT></SPAN><BR><SPAN class=958595220-19072005><FONT face=Arial size=2> I</FONT></SPAN> just wanna be the best in the game without having to do anything for it.</FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=059155120-19072005><FONT face=Arial color=#0000ff size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=059155120-19072005><FONT color=#ffff00>Thanks!<BR>Canthalion Autumnleaf<BR>lvl 46 Paladin </FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=059155120-19072005><FONT color=#ffff00>Co-leader Order of the Phoenix</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=059155120-19072005><FONT color=#ffff00>Guild level 19  - Lavastorm.</FONT><BR></DIV></SPAN></SPAN></DIV>

[Curati]

<P>.....what a tool</P> <P> </P> <P>how can that dribble you wrote constitute as constructive feedback?<BR>Try not being part of the problem man....geez</P>

[Ildarus]

<P>That is funny:smileyvery-happy: I think a bit extreme though.</P> <P>First of all I want to congratulate you. Your guild was started the 1st of June and you are now level 19. That is a great accomplishment.</P> <P>What that is telling me though is your guild is comprised of a small group of people that enjoy grinding out writs and HQ's. Not every player in EQII is like the members in your guild. As a matter of fact the majority of us play to have fun and the comaraderie. I have posted this before, but why should a casual guild pay for losing a patron to a guild such as yours. I have a hard time believing that all the upper level 30 and level 40's characters in your guild were not at some point a patron in another guild and that guild lost out when that character left to join yours.</P> <P>Canthalion, I have no problem with any guild that wants to play hard and level fast, but why should a guild of casual players pay when someone leaves to join a guild like yours.</P> <P>Please correct me if I mis represented what I see of your guild. We are of the same server and I do not want to jeopardize any future relationship we may have because of my opinion.</P>

[Troodon]

<span><blockquote><hr>Curative wrote: <p>.....what a tool</p> <p>how can that dribble you wrote constitute as constructive feedback?Try not being part of the problem man....geez</p><hr></blockquote> <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=irony" target=_blank>Irony</a> (definition curtesy of dictionary.com) </span> <ol> <li>The use of words to express something different from and often opposite to their literal meaning.</li> <li>An expression or utterance marked by a deliberate contrast between apparent and intended meaning.</li> <li>A literary style employing such contrasts for humorous or rhetorical effect.</li> </ol> <div></div>

[CoebyWu]

<P>amusing.......</P> <P>Even if the guild changes were to go live as they've described, I doubt you'd reach guild level 30 any time soon.</P>

[CoebyWu]

<DIV>.... even more amusing, is that you'd NEVER reach 30 in the current system.  :smileysurprised:</DIV>

[Curati]

<P>i dont see the problem with us all being lvl 30?<BR>This is the best change ever.</P> <P>Now i can kick jerks out of guild without worrying about weather they have contributed to our lvl or not</P> <P>I dont have any jerks in guild at the moment but the point is</P> <P>I have much more freedom with this change</P> <P> </P> <P>all they have to do is nerf (yes i said nerf) the amount of status writs give down to 10% of what you get now AND not allow new patrons to be created for 3 months AND only allow 8 patrons at a time so that inner guild dynamics change to a more proactive role for the memberbase.</P> <P>Message Edited by Curative on <SPAN class=date_text>07-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>04:11 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Curative on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:26 PM</span>

[Speak]

Guess you can go buy the New EQ2-A CD, just load the cd and the game opens up and says "you win"

[Naughtesn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ildarus wrote:<BR> <P>What that is telling me though is your guild is comprised of a small group of people that enjoy grinding out writs and HQ's. Not every player in EQII is like the members in your guild. As a matter of fact the majority of us play to have fun and the comaraderie. I have posted this before, but why should a casual guild pay for losing a patron to a guild such as yours. I have a hard time believing that all the upper level 30 and level 40's characters in your guild were not at some point a patron in another guild and that guild lost out when that character left to join yours.</P> <P>Canthalion, I have no problem with any guild that wants to play hard and level fast, but why should a guild of casual players pay when someone leaves to join a guild like yours.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Well, all I can say - with all due respect - is if someone is leaving your guild to join a larger guild, than means - they didn't want to be there in the first place.  Choose your patrons carefully. <BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300> Not every player in EQII is like the members in your guild.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>-----------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Apparently your hypothetical guild jumpers are - and do not wish to be in your guild.  And, I'm sure you will continue to have an enjoyable experience with your "casual" guildmates.  Those who want to be guild level 30, raid Darathar, kill Tremblor, etc. will find their guild niche and you don't have to worry your pretty little head about it.  There's something for everyone in this game I believe, but don't assume that everyone wants the game dumbed down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The proposed change trivializes GL 30 - that's it.  It makes it easier.  Why should something have to be easy in order for it cater to casual players?  It doesn't.  Are casual players, in aggregate, simple idiots looking for an insanely easy  game - no.  Most casual players would like a challenge - I would hazard to say yes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Larger guilds don't have an advantage getting to gl 30.  What they have are people who consider that to be one of their goals.  Like prismatics and level 50.  There are many players not level 50  or prismatic-equipped right now after 8 months.  Should we insitute changes tripling experience gain so more players can hit level 50? no.  Should an NPC be created that hands you a prismatic weapon upon signing up for the Station Pass? no.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You'll appreciate GL 30 and exp level 50 and prismatics SO much more if you actually work for them - and work hard for them...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Naughtesnec on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:04 PM</span>

[TheSpin]

<DIV>If you haven't noticed or have forgotten, they have made almost every aspect of EQ2 easier since it's release.  Why would this aspect be different?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 50 is not a big accomplishment in my book, it's not even a personal goal of mine, just an inevitability.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They'll add expansions etc to keep guild level interesting and important, and that'll keep me interested enough to want to work to level up my guild.  Too many guild members feel like they can't contribute to a guild and I like this because it allows everyone a better chance at being able to help a guild out.</DIV>

[Ildarus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Naughtesnec wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ildarus wrote:<BR> <P>What that is telling me though is your guild is comprised of a small group of people that enjoy grinding out writs and HQ's. Not every player in EQII is like the members in your guild. As a matter of fact the majority of us play to have fun and the comaraderie. I have posted this before, but why should a casual guild pay for losing a patron to a guild such as yours. I have a hard time believing that all the upper level 30 and level 40's characters in your guild were not at some point a patron in another guild and that guild lost out when that character left to join yours.</P> <P>Canthalion, I have no problem with any guild that wants to play hard and level fast, but why should a guild of casual players pay when someone leaves to join a guild like yours.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Well, all I can say - with all due respect - is if someone is leaving your guild to join a larger guild, than means - they didn't want to be there in the first place.  Choose your patrons carefully. <BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300> Not every player in EQII is like the members in your guild.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff3300>-----------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Apparently your hypothetical guild jumpers are - and do not wish to be in your guild.  And, I'm sure you will continue to have an enjoyable experience with your "casual" guildmates.  Those who want to be guild level 30, raid Darathar, kill Tremblor, etc. will find their guild niche and you don't have to worry your pretty little head about it.  There's something for everyone in this game I believe, but don't assume that everyone wants the game dumbed down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The proposed change trivializes GL 30 - that's it.  It makes it easier.  Why should something have to be easy in order for it cater to casual players?  It doesn't.  Are casual players, in aggregate, simple idiots looking for an insanely easy  game - no.  Most casual players would like a challenge - I would hazard to say yes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Larger guilds don't have an advantage getting to gl 30.  What they have are people who consider that to be one of their goals.  Like prismatics and level 50.  There are many players not level 50  or prismatic-equipped right now after 8 months.  Should we insitute changes tripling experience gain so more players can hit level 50? no.  Should an NPC be created that hands you a prismatic weapon upon signing up for the Station Pass? no.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You'll appreciate GL 30 and exp level 50 and prismatics SO much more if you actually work for them - and work hard for them...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Naughtesnec on <SPAN class=date_text>07-19-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>10:04 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>OK, this isn't the perfect fix to the problem that some of you don't seem to see.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A group of online friends get together and start a guild. They are having fun doing quests and killing monsters. In the process they are raising their guild level. One day Bob realizes he is approaching level 50 and wants fight some of the more epic mobs. Problem is the rest of his friends can't make the time commitment to tackle these mobs. They are after all casual players and can't, I repeat can't, spend 20 to 40 hours a week playing the game, but Bob can. At this point in time their guild is level 15 and Bob decides to leave and join guild XYZ. Now the group of friends are short a patron and are now guild level 13.5.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why should the Guild w/ the group of casual players lose guild xp just because one of the players decides to join a guild that is willing to tackle the bigger targets? They may have not been actively working to get to level 30, but they reached level 15 and enjoy the perks that come with it. It was the Patrons choice to leave not the Guilds. The guild level should not take a hit because someone decides to play another way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please stop the insanity:smileyvery-happy: Why can't the people that are so against this change understand that we are talking about two different types of guilds. If anyone is going to take advantage of the loophole that this will create it will be the guilds that want to reach uber guild level ASAP and have the extra time to put in. Yes, the casual players now have a better chance of reaching level 30, but it is still going to take them time. The hardcore players are still going to get there first. Also, as Sony adds more guild levels it will be the hardcore players that will reach the top first. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I couldn't believe my eyes the other day but I saw a level 50 Warlock that is a Froglok. That is hardcore player that is in a hardcore guild which guess what, is a level 30 guild.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just my humble opinion, but some people need to get outside:smileyhappy: </DIV><p>Message Edited by Ildarus on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:04 AM</span>

[Screamin' 1]

<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>TheSpin wrote:<div>If you haven't noticed or have forgotten, they have made almost every aspect of EQ2 easier since it's release.  Why would this aspect be different?</div> <div> <font color="#ffff00">In fact, there are even more easy things coming, such as 'free' access to most zones (such as Everfrost) for all levels. <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=testfeed&message.id=21900" target="_blank">Here's the link</a></font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><span><font color="#ffff00"><font color="#ffff00">(BTW, I like this change, but I understand how many folks will think it makes the game too easy. IMO, if I do</font><font color="#ffff00"> </font><font color="#ffff00"> the work to get to the level where I can handle the mobs in a zone, I should be able to go there.)</font> </font></span> </div> <div>Level 50 is not a big accomplishment in my book, it's not even a personal goal of mine, just an inevitability.</div> <div> <span><font color="#ffff00"><font color="#ffff00"> Well said. I prefer to gauge my gaming experience on whether I had fun, and was I challenged. Grinding out things is not that much of a challenge to me.  But, there is still a sense of accomplishment when I or my guild levels, and I don't want to see that trivialized. Of course, it is up to each guild to determine how much they benefit from the new 'system'.  If a 200 player guild levels to 30 in 2 weeks, that does not change the accomplishments of another guild that decides to work more within the intended spirit of the system (IMO).</font> </font></span> </div> <div>They'll add expansions etc to keep guild level interesting and important, and that'll keep me interested enough to want to work to level up my guild.  Too many guild members feel like they can't contribute to a guild and I like this because it allows everyone a better chance at being able to help a guild out. <span><span><font color="#ffff00"><font color="#ffff00"> I think the positive aspects of the change outweigh the negative (barely), but the change could be all positive if more time was taken coming up with the solution. As it stands now, a line or two of code was commented out (the code that reduced guild exp when a patron is no longer a patron). The problem here, in my opinion, is not with HQs, it is with writs. If each player can patron, finish a writ, then unpatron, A guild with 100 players will be able to level in no time at all.  It is funny that this change is being made at the same time the double-writ (Bitterwind Pioneers) is being eliminated. That is like adding 5 pounds of weight to a marathon runner, but reducing the course from 21 miles to 100 yards. </font><font color="#ffff00"><span>:smileywink:</span></font><font color="#ffff00"> </font> <font color="#ffff00"> What I want to see is a system where guilds don't suffer when players leave, all players can contribute at their own pace w/o diluting the contribution of  the more hardcore players, and we can generate exp with our alts w/o a penalty as well, all the while allowing small and large guilds to level at a *similar* pace. There are several solutions outlined in the various threads that solve this problem, or at least come close. Why is it that we are seeing so many great solutions from players, yet the solution on test is a simple change that took 5 minutes to implement? The guild system in EQ2 is a big part of the game, and this change deserved a lot more thought. [Edited] After reading today's live server release notes, I am glad at least something was done to prevent constant rotation of patrons. This solution is almost certainly going to come under fire, but at least it shows SOE is paying attention to our concerns. </font><font color="#ffff00"> </font> </font></span></span></div><font color="#ffff00"> </font><hr></blockquote> </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Screamin' 103 on <span class="date_text">07-20-2005</span> <span class="time_text">09:40 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Screamin' 103 on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:14 PM</span>

[sglant]

<P>Level NEVER made you uber. Anyone can make lvl 50. Anyone could make lvl 50/60/65/70 in EQ2. What made the upper 10% better than everyone else was their ability to play. It was their attention to detail in taking down the high end mobs.</P> <P>Not everyone was able to kill PoP Gods in EQ1. Not everyone can kill King Zalak in EQ2. When every lvl 15 guild can kill Darathar or Nagalik as a 2 group raid, then it will be too easy. In the meantime, buck up and work on defeating the upper tiered instances.</P> <P> </P>

[Nalhig]

<DIV>The status system, as it stands now, gives patrons enormous leverage in their guilds... especially those who are the most active.  They can act out, make demands of the leaders, and become complete jerks and still remain with the guild because of their importance to guild level.  I have seen this 1st hand.  While I realize many would say, "kick them anyway", those who say that do not completely understand how demoralizing the loss of a patron can be to a guild.  When that person who seemed like such a great recruit and upstanding individual takes a surprising turn for the worse... the leaders become powerless to do anything about it without destabilizing the guild.</DIV>

[Kizee]

<P>I agree.... the game is becoming a joke now with how easy things are becoming. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I don't understand the youth of today... they want eveything handed to them on a silver platter and refuse to work to achieve a goal.</P> <P>I am thinking next patch there will be a button added to the character creation screen that will level you to 50, equip you in full fabled gear, complete all herritages, make you guild leader of a level 30 guild and give you 1000 pp in the bank.</P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Quit making EQ2 a WoW clone.... If I wanted to play an easy game then I would be playing that one. </SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Kizee on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:53 AM</span>

[Jeridor]

<div></div>We play for different reasons.  It's the staff's task to make decisions that reflect the majority of said reasons, and when possible, to provide means for the minority.  While I know some of us would like to imagine our opinions -are- the majority on any given issue, it's not really what you think, it's what the staff thinks.  If they make an aspect of the game easier, they did so with the intent of keeping the game's population healthy. I for one am -thrilled- SOE is willing to make aspects of EQ2 easier for the masses that want it.  There's plenty of other games that seem hell bent on making everything as hard as possible for everyone if you enjoy torture. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Jeridor on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:32 AM</span>

[Jeridor]

<span><blockquote><hr>TheSpin wrote:<div>If you haven't noticed or have forgotten, they have made almost every aspect of EQ2 easier since it's release.  Why would this aspect be different?</div> <div> </div> <div><font color="#ffcc33">Level 50 is not a big accomplishment in my book, it's not even a personal goal of mine, just an inevitability.</font></div> <div> </div> <div>They'll add expansions etc to keep guild level interesting and important, and that'll keep me interested enough to want to work to level up my guild.  Too many guild members feel like they can't contribute to a guild and I like this because it allows everyone a better chance at being able to help a guild out.</div><hr></blockquote> It is ironic that someone who hasn't made to make level 50 trivializes the act ahead of time.  I assure you, there's plenty to do once you hit 50, but your next complaint will probably be that you don't feel like doing it, or don't think it's worth your time -- oddly, the same thing many people have said before about things that have become easier.</span><div></div>

[Ildarus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>I agree.... the game is becoming a joke now with how easy things are becoming. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I don't understand the youth of today... they want eveything handed to them on a silver platter and refuse to work to achieve a goal.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I don't think this has anything to do with the youth of today. This has to do with grown adults like myself that have a wife ( who doesn't play or like EQ) and kids that cannot spend 40 hours a week immersed in the world of Norrath. We want to have fun and like a challenge. But the challenges should not take a straight 8 hour session to complete. This is supposed to be a game not reality. </FONT></P> <P>I am thinking next patch there will be a button added to the character creation screen that will level you to 50, equip you in full fabled gear, complete all herritages, make you guild leader of a level 30 guild and give you 1000 pp in the bank.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>What part of this whole controversy even comes close to what you are saying here. We are not saying hand us everything, there are just some things that need to be made re-evaluated for the majority. As another poster said, the devs are making decisions based on what they think the majority want. The majority are the ones paying the bills and lets face it, REAL LIFE is all about Money.  </FONT></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Quit making EQ2 a WoW clone.... If I wanted to play an easy game then I would be playing that one. </SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Kizee on <SPAN class=date_text>07-20-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:53 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Pathin Merrithay]

<P>The guild system makes sense as it stands now. There should -definitely- be a penalty in any system that's level based when you lose someone that contributed exp towards gaining those levels. Not only does it make sense from a gaming perspective (There is a penalty associated with not staying with a guild, choosing to move on, etc etc) But it also makes alot of sense in heroic terms too. If Robin Hood was part of the guild The Merry Men, obviously did lots of writs and HQ's, but then decided he was getting bored and leftthe group... Well, do you really think the Merry Men would still have nearly the impact that once did? Patrons in a guild should -mean- something. With this change, it becomes so much exploitable fluff. It will become a joke to level to 30, and will simply encourage the jumping from smaller guilds to larger ones because there's no longer any penalty for doing so. </P> <P>I'm sure that many smaller guilds are looking at this asa great changem frightened a few of their higher levels players will guild jump and cause them to de-level... Well, you won't lose a level, but anyone thinking this helps smaller guilds in the long run is mistaken. Smaller guilds will act as a springboard to larger guilds in many respects now.</P> <P>As far as largr guilds, it just makes getting to GL 30 remarkably easy. Far too easy. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ildarus wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>I agree.... the game is becoming a joke now with how easy things are becoming. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I don't understand the youth of today... they want eveything handed to them on a silver platter and refuse to work to achieve a goal.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>I don't think this has anything to do with the youth of today. This has to do with grown adults like myself that have a wife ( who doesn't play or like EQ) and kids that cannot spend 40 hours a week immersed in the world of Norrath. We want to have fun and like a challenge. But the challenges should not take a straight 8 hour session to complete. This is supposed to be a game not reality. </FONT></P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#66ccff>I am married and have a 2 year old and work a 40 hour week also but I still like a challenge and a goal to achieve. If I can't reach a goal then I don't cry about it and try to get it changed....some things will always be out of reach for some people.</FONT><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Dureck_]

<DIV> <DIV> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300>YAY.  WE CAN NOW ROTATE OUR PATRONS ONCE A WEEK!  Time to get our members who are working on HQ's<BR></FONT></STRONG><STRONG><FONT color=#ff3300> one step from completing all the heritage quests we can get them to do,  then give them 1 week to finish!  Then Wham.. back to the others who were working on their own for a week off.. WHAM... level 30 in no time!  No more patrons not doing writs! i mean a week on a week off.. who could ask for more!</FONT></STRONG></P><STRONG> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff3300>OH WAIT! WE don't have to do writs OR heritage Quests!  WE CAN NOW BUY OUR GUILD LEVEL!  YAY!  No more writ<BR>nights,  No more getting killed by x mob trying to complet a heritage quest!   YAY only run to the local Merchant<BR>board and BUY our Next level!  WOOT..</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff3300>YAY!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Canthalion Autumnleaf<BR></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>Level 46 Paladin<BR>Co-Leader Order of the Phoenix</FONT><FONT color=#ffff00><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>YAY!  </FONT><FONT color=#ffff00>Off to the merchant boards to <BR>buy our next level!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff3300></FONT></P></STRONG>  <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT></STRONG> </P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT></STRONG> </P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Status Loot ***</FONT></STRONG></P> <P> </P> <P>- In addition to completing writs that are assigned to you by city NPCs, you can now earn guild status by turning in new kinds of dropped items.</P> <P>- Many of the NPCs around Norrath now have a chance to drop items that the major political factions in each of city are after. Be on the lookout for these new types of Scrying Stones, Amulets, Sealed Documents, and Relics. There are different varieties of each of these items for each level range.</P> <P>- You can sell these new items for status points to the same NPCs that assign writ quests. This is a whole new way to increase your guild level and personal status.</P> <P>- Regardless of whether or not you are in a guild, status loot can be traded to other players or sold to regular NPC merchants for cash.</P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </P> <P><STRONG><FONT color=#ffcc00>*** Guilds ***</FONT></STRONG></P> <P> </P> <P>- Guilds no longer lose status or levels when an established patron leaves the guild or ceases to be a patron. Thus, guilds never lose the levels they have already earned.</P> <P>- Deguilding or removing patron status from someone who has been a patron for less than a week will result in a loss of that player's status contribution. The amount removed will vary based on how close to a full week that person has been a member. Guild leaders electing to remove a patron will receive a warning as to how this will impact their guild's status.</P> <P>- Guild levels are now capped at 30. Additional guild experience cannot be earned until the guild level cap is raised.</P> <P>- There was a bug causing many guild levels to show as one less than they really are. This is now fixed, thus guilds may notice their level increase by one.</P> <P>- You can now (for a 5 silver fee) send an in-game mail message to every member of your guild. Address your mail to “guild.” You cannot attach items to the mail, and you can only send messages to the guild of which you are a member. Guild leaders can decide which ranks have permission to send guild mail.</P> <P>- You will no longer be able to complete two guild writs at the same time by killing the same NPC.</P> <P>- You can now receive a new tradeskill writ every 20 minutes instead of every 30 minutes.</P> <P>- The Tradesman gear bought from the City Merchants is now wearable by all classes.</P> <P> </P></DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Dureck_13 on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:51 AM</span>

[themysterious]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Dureck_13 wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div> <div> <p><strong><font color="#ff3300">YAY.  WE CAN NOW ROTATE OUR PATRONS ONCE A WEEK!  Time to get our members who are working on HQ's</font></strong><strong><font color="#ff3300"> one step from completing all the heritage quests we can get them to do,  then give them 1 week to finish!  Then Wham.. back to the others who were working on their own for a week off.. WHAM... level 30 in no time!  No more patrons not doing writs! i mean a week on a week off.. who could ask for more!</font></strong></p><strong> <p><font color="#ffcc00">The rotation of writs is a good thing, it means guild members CAN have a week off. As for heritage quests, woopty-farbot-doo... the smaller guilds can't magically do heritage quests.</font> </p> <p><font color="#ff3300">OH WAIT! WE don't have to do writs OR heritage Quests!  WE CAN NOW BUY OUR GUILD LEVEL!  YAY!  No more writnights,  No more getting killed by x mob trying to complet a heritage quest!   YAY only run to the local Merchantboard and BUY our Next level!  WOOT..</font></p> <p><font color="#ffcc00">At 33 gsp per item, best case for a guild (12patron), it will take you along time and alot of money to buy your way to 30... if you have earned that much money ingame then power to you, if you buy it from some plat seller, you probably should get a nobel humanitarian prize because you probably just feed an entire village in the poorer region of china for 2 years.</font> </p> <p><font color="#ffcc00"> </font> <font color="#ffcc00"><span class="time_text">I am quite tired of all the arguments about this change... it isn't that big of a deal. Something had to be done about guilds loosing xp when people left, smaller guilds could be held to ransom. </span></font> </p> </strong> <p><font color="#ffcc00"><b><span class="time_text">People aren't going to pop-up over night to sell heritage quest turn ins... people can only do them once per toon, and they are not exactly quick-and-easy. Plus they have to stay in the guild for a week... </span></b></font></p> <p><font color="#ffcc00"><b><span class="time_text">Yeah people can now join for a week and be paid to writ grind... but I don't see this happening, it might, in rare cases. </span></b></font></p> <p><font color="#ffcc00"><b><span class="time_text">It just isn't that big a deal... get over it.</span></b></font></p> <strong> <p><font color="#ffcc00"> </font></p> <p></p></strong></div></div><hr></blockquote></span><div></div><p><span class="time_text"> </span></p><p>Message Edited by themysteriousne on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:10 PM</span>

[Jor]

<DIV>Waoww haven't seen such a bad post since.. well many weeks...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>IHMO SOE's patch is excellent. As for buying status, I have some worry, but it seems the gain is small. So, two thumbs up for LU 12 !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe some cheater might find a way to jump to 30 ? Stop crying wolf nothing happended yet. </DIV> <DIV>What I see, is that the very vast majority of gamers will be happy that they can participate in normal guilds for some gain, without having to be penalized by all those patrons that no longer play.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[jarrett]

<P>pretty ironic that the poster of this thread is crying about the game not being challenging enough for him, yet he's only level 46?</P> <P>The game has been out for QUITE a while champ, looks like you had PLENTY of challenge lmfao.</P>

[Dureck_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jarrettes wrote:<BR> <P>pretty ironic that the poster of this thread is crying about the game not being challenging enough for him, yet he's only level 46?</P> <P>The game has been out for QUITE a while champ, looks like you had PLENTY of challenge lmfao.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I am a level 46 because i spend a good portion of my time mentored down to assist  the members in our guild.<BR>I'd say since June 1st i have spent about 60% of my time mentored.   I am a Co-leader of my guild and it's<BR>My responsibility to help the members in my guild level, do quests, and writs.   When we started this Guild (June 1st)<BR>I was a level 36.   The members in our guild range from 25 - 49.  None of our guild members fault me on level<BR>since i'm ALWAYS there to help.  You do the math Champ.     </P> <P>The changes are pathetic.  You can now buy status, rotate patrons, and not even have to worry about them if they<BR>decide to leave.  Being in a guild is about Team work and Guild loyalty.  If you are losing patrons and members to other<BR>guilds then you are not meeting the needs of the players involved.</P> <P>There were several very nice suggestion to fix guild status.  One right off the top of my head was the thread where<BR>the top 12 memebers contribute, if someone passes up the 12th person, his points count.  If someone leaves the<BR>next person in line is moved up.  <BR><BR>This move makes guild level trivial. </P> <P> </P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>Canthalion Autumnleaf<BR>Level 46 Paladin<BR>Co-leader Order of the Phoenix<BR>Guild level 20  (oh and we did it in less then 2 months can you say the same??) <BR></FONT></P> <P> </P>

[jarrett]

level your newb guild to 30 and get to 50 yourself before you start crying please, kthnx~

[CasombraHellstalk]

Actually the patron system needed revamping.. and it was a wonderful and VERY welcome change. We were able to lose the patrons that quit playing or just quit doing much of anything without the guild being punished for it. I feel this was the BEST update we have had. For smaller to medium sized guilds this change helped us a lot. We now don't have to worry about a whacko officer depatroning guildies and hurting the entire guild. We no longer have to feel we have to compete with large raiding guilds and worry when one of our members decide to move to a raiding guild and we get the shaft. For once the little guys got a bonus and a bit of help from SoE and the family guilds get a bit of a thumbs up. THANK YOU SOE!!!!

[Tockl]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CasombraHellstalker wrote:<BR>For once the little guys got a bonus and a bit of help from SoE and the family guilds get a bit of a thumbs up. THANK YOU SOE!!!! <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>If they had at the very least made it 90 days, I'd be singing the same song.  But as it stands,we (casual guilds <EM>and</EM> players) got the biggest shaft.  </DIV>

[Dart]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jarrettes wrote:<BR>level your newb guild to 30 and get to 50 yourself before you start crying please, kthnx~ <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Rofl ~ I concur, go ahead and one star me too!</P>

[CasombraHellstalk]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tockley wrote: <DIV><BR>If they had at the very least made it 90 days, I'd be singing the same song.  But as it stands,we (casual guilds <EM>and</EM> players) got the biggest shaft.  </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I really could care less about the larger guilds really... they can do what they do.... but at least us little guys no longer get punished for those being drawn to the higher guilds.... we at least no longer lose guild xp when someone leaves... and that is a huge bonus to us if you look at it.</DIV>

[Tockl]

<P>I guess thats my point about the 7 vs 90 days.  They could have done the exact same thing for us, without allowing bigger guilds to level so fast.  It used to be an equal playing field, and that was the attraction for me.  There was always the possibility of a casual guild being one of the first to attain level 30.</P> <P>Before it was an accomplishment, now it will be common.  I still hope they change it before the week is up.</P>

[CasombraHellstalk]

I see what your saying but at the same time why even worry about it? As a medium sized guild I guess server firsts are far out of our reach unless it is a drop or something. I guess for us it really isn't important what the large uber guilds do but at least we have a helping hand that we don't have to deal with our guild playing yo yo because people come and go. Many leave for many reasons like real life or boredom of the game or wanting higher raiding and no longer interested in the casual guild.. things change in many peoples lives and game life... the thing is... the guild no longer gets punished for those choices or events that players make.

[Serindyl]

<P>It is not only that people leave small guilds to move up to larger, raid focused guilds.  People leave for other reasons, such as personality conflicts, and that affects large guilds as it does small ones.  Not losing patron points helps every guild, and I am glad for the change.  The one week penalty is to prevent abuse, but I doubt that it is enough, and there were many suggestions I thought were better.  I also prefer my idea where a patron can earn levels, or anyone in the guild for that matter, can become a patron not by assignment, but by earning the status by doing heritage quests or writs.  The higher in levels the patron goes, the more personal and guild status points that person earns for doing them.</P> <P>A high level patron would be worth a fortune in points, but the individual earned it, and yet, they can leave and that is not lost on the guild.  Then others can earn the same place, and it all benefits the guild and its members.  Getting to 30 is a great pat on the back, but really -- how many people are going to be buying a 60pp horse?  Not to mention, cost to performance is nowhere, since a 9pp horse sold for 5pp at level 25, and its only speed 40 to the 60pp speed of 48.  Worth it?  I doubt it.  60pp could be better used elsewhere, like a guild house -- and where, by the way, are those -- long before I buy a translucent horse?</P>

[Dart]

<DIV>Somewhere baby jesus is crying</DIV>

[Tockl]

I guess it just really irks me to have others who can abuse the system.  <DIV>One week is better than the original, but longer would cut down on abuse severely.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As it standed before, large guilds had no advantage.  Why should they now?</DIV>

[Lydiae]

<P>My guild recently lost half of it's high level players because they wanted to move to an EU server so there would be more people on at their prime playing time.  I can't blame them for wanting to do that, but why should the guild lose FIVE levels because of it?  </P> <P>This is a matter of being fair.  It has nothing to do with whether or not one is an uberleet 80 hour a week basement dwelling computer nerd who's sole source of satisfaction in life is his 3 level 50 EQ2 toons and all their [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]in' gear.  An accomplishment, BTW, that in the grand sceme of things means exactly NOTHING, Gilmer... so stop trying to build up your self image by pretending otherwise and protecting your 'turf' from the inferior 'casuals'.  It's a GAME, by definition any time one spends PLAYING A GAME is CASUAL TIME.  And time spent is what it boils down to - not 'skill'.</P> <P>How many level 30 guilds are there on each server?  Average of maybe 2?  Vs. the number of level 50 players?  Did you stop to consider that might not be the way they intended things to be at this stage, and they might just have a reason you aren't aware of to give the guild leveling process a little boost?</P>

[p1ut0nium]

<P>Alot of you are crying "fair for the guild" and "fair for casual players" and forgetting a few important things.</P> <P>The status some of you believe your guild deserves is created by a patron.  If that patron leaves the guild...by all logic...his status should go with him as HE or SHE is the one that made it and thus leveled your guild.  </P> <P>Why should your guild be able to keep the status that he or she earned?  </P> <P>In fact, I would say a guild falling many levels due to status/patron loss is a good indication that something is wrong with the guild. </P> <P>Why should casual players care about guild status anyway?  Guilds aren't made for casual players.  Casual players don't contribute enough to be a benefit to a guild.  Unless you're willing to wait a year or two before you can afford those "uber" status rewards.  </P> <P>And no, you don't need a guild to do a raid.  Every single raid I've ever been in was a pick up Raid that I chanced upon with some other peeps.  Hell, I even started a raid myself once.  It was a mish mash of many different guilds into CoH for GB heritage.</P> <P> </P> <P>Please stop dumbing the game down for people who complain they have no time to play.  If they have no time, that's their own fault...not yours Sony!  Please cater to those of us who DO have time and DO enjoy your game enough to want to play it frequently.  Give us the challenge we desire.  </P> <P>If you continue to make the game too easy for the casual players who don't have time to play, you WILL drive away those of us who begin to feel unchallenged.</P> <P>WE HAVE SPOKEN!</P> <P> </P>

[Tockl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> p1ut0nium wrote:<BR> <P>And no, you don't need a guild to do a raid.  Every single raid I've ever been in was a pick up Raid that I chanced upon with some other peeps.  Hell, I even started a raid myself once.  It was a mish mash of many different guilds into CoH for GB heritage.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I'm a casual player, and I actually mostly agree.  I played EQ1 for over 5 years, casually.  Only near the end did I have more time to strive for the end-game.  Only once I hit 65 did I finally make the highest level available, and I had pretty decent AAs.  When the cap was raised to 50, I was in my 40s.  When the cap was raised to 65, I was in my 50s.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My biggest dissapointment in EQ2 is the ability to hit the maximum level BEFORE the next level-raising expansion, with FAR less time invested than EQ1. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Tockl]

<DIV>I should also post, that although there were certain points I knew I would never get to, a huge part of the fun was getting as close as I could with the limited time I had.  Maybe it meant camping X zone for a raid to start, hoping for a free spot, and praying for a lucky roll.  Maybe it was not buying upgrades for levels at a time to save up for a new weapon.  </DIV> <DIV>I was a rogue.  Shortly after Kunark I was one of few on the server to be dual-welding bloodpoints, when they wouldn't even proc for me yet.  I had laughable armor and a busted bank account, but that was my choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In my ideal EQ2, it would be nigh impossible to have more than a couple spells Adept 3 or better.  A dream to be in a level 30 guild.  Possible, but dangerous, to solo.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am the one who puts games onto Superhuman setting from the first time I play, because if it's not a challenge, I don't want to play.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fun is IN the challenge, not in its absence.  I know many others feel differently, and cannot begin to fathom where I am coming from (as a casual gamer).  But we are out there.  I still enjoy EQ2, but the more dumbed down it gets, the more my interest wanes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[themysterious]

<span><blockquote><hr>p1ut0nium wrote:<div></div> <p>Alot of you are crying "fair for the guild" and "fair for casual players" and forgetting a few important things.</p> <p>The status some of you believe your guild deserves is created by a patron.  If that patron leaves the guild...by all logic...his status should go with him as HE or SHE is the one that made it and thus leveled your guild.  </p> <p>Why should your guild be able to keep the status that he or she earned?  </p> <p>In fact, I would say a guild falling many levels due to status/patron loss is a good indication that something is wrong with the guild. </p> <p>Why should casual players care about guild status anyway?  Guilds aren't made for casual players.  Casual players don't contribute enough to be a benefit to a guild.  Unless you're willing to wait a year or two before you can afford those "uber" status rewards.  </p> <p>And no, you don't need a guild to do a raid.  Every single raid I've ever been in was a pick up Raid that I chanced upon with some other peeps.  Hell, I even started a raid myself once.  It was a mish mash of many different guilds into CoH for GB heritage.</p> <p>Please stop dumbing the game down for people who complain they have no time to play.  If they have no time, that's their own fault...not yours Sony!  Please cater to those of us who DO have time and DO enjoy your game enough to want to play it frequently.  Give us the challenge we desire.  </p> <p>If you continue to make the game too easy for the casual players who don't have time to play, you WILL drive away those of us who begin to feel unchallenged.</p> <p>WE HAVE SPOKEN!</p> <hr></blockquote>I am a true casual player, and this is just mis-informed rhetoric. The vast majority of casual players are not casual because they play 2 hours a night, instead they are labeled as casual because they do not raid, and are not level 50. I am in a small guild of casual players, and I know of aleast 6 other guilds exactly like my guild. We have major problems because most of us like to play alts... we find it fun to explore every aspect of a level range before moving on. Occasionally we have to delete toons to make room for more alts, at which point we loose massive amounts of guild experience... why should we? The same player is still in the guild. Further more, re-inforcing what the poster above stated... what if people shift servers because of population shifts? This too has happened to my guild, and many guilds I know... Sony is pretty gracious with the "here's your chance to move for free" offers... has happened a good 4 times since launch... also as people move around games to experiement with other games, the populations of servers change. My guild came from EQ1, we were a guild comprised of EU, US and Aussie players... when EQ2 started we were the same, but our EU friends got frustrated because there were no players on in their time... they didn't want to leave out guild, and still are good friends with us, but they had to so that they could be on a server with people in there timezone.... our US friends also moved on to a different guild because there were only 4 of them in our guild... and they needed more. Lets now look at the fact that very rarely does a patron earn xp on their own, half of the level range writs (15 to 20, 25 to 30, 35 to 40) can only be done by groups... most heritage quest involve atleast one "raid" that requires atleast a group... why should the guild lose xp when one person leaves, and takes the xp that 5 other helped gain? Casual is just a label that has been imposed on the majority of players of this game... we still play the game alot, and we fund most of the development done in the game (simply because wether you like it or not, we are the majority of the suscriber base). The rhetoric that this has made the game easier is just a big pile of farbot... the people who keep saying "people can just buy their way to 30" have obviously never actually handed in one of the status items... which at BEST give your guild 8 to 12 xp (which when levels are counted in the 100,000s of xp, is not really that much)... at any given time there would not be enough items for sale on the market of any given server to give the guild a level, even a low level... and in the time it took to gather the items you could have created an alt and done 6 level 10 writs and earned more xp. Get over the change. </span><div></div>

[Dureck_]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jarrettes wrote:<BR>level your newb guild to 30 and get to 50 yourself before you start crying please, kthnx~ <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This coming from someone who's guild was created on Created: November 11, 2004<BR>and still only Guild Level: 24.   nice.   :smileyvery-happy:     Do what you preach before trying to <BR>flame someone.<BR></P> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Canthalion Autumnleaf<BR>Level 46 Paladin<BR>Co-leader Order of the Phoenix<BR>Guild level 21  <BR>(oh and we did it in less then 2 months can you say the same??)<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Dureck_13 on <span class=date_text>07-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:51 AM</span>

[Eul]

Wow, your trophy's in the mail. I have to ask: guild of high-schoolers on summer vacation spending too much time in the basement? <div></div>

[p1ut0nium]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> themysteriousne wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> p1ut0nium wrote:<BR> <P>Alot of you are crying "fair for the guild" and "fair for casual players" and forgetting a few important things.</P> <P>The status some of you believe your guild deserves is created by a patron.  If that patron leaves the guild...by all logic...his status should go with him as HE or SHE is the one that made it and thus leveled your guild.  </P> <P>Why should your guild be able to keep the status that he or she earned?  </P> <P>In fact, I would say a guild falling many levels due to status/patron loss is a good indication that something is wrong with the guild. </P> <P>Why should casual players care about guild status anyway?  Guilds aren't made for casual players.  Casual players don't contribute enough to be a benefit to a guild.  Unless you're willing to wait a year or two before you can afford those "uber" status rewards.  </P> <P>And no, you don't need a guild to do a raid.  Every single raid I've ever been in was a pick up Raid that I chanced upon with some other peeps.  Hell, I even started a raid myself once.  It was a mish mash of many different guilds into CoH for GB heritage.</P> <P> </P> <P>Please stop dumbing the game down for people who complain they have no time to play.  If they have no time, that's their own fault...not yours Sony!  Please cater to those of us who DO have time and DO enjoy your game enough to want to play it frequently.  Give us the challenge we desire.  </P> <P>If you continue to make the game too easy for the casual players who don't have time to play, you WILL drive away those of us who begin to feel unchallenged.</P> <P>WE HAVE SPOKEN!</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I am a true casual player, and this is just mis-informed rhetoric.<BR><BR>The vast majority of casual players are not casual because they play 2 hours a night, instead they are labeled as casual because they do not raid, and are not level 50.<BR><BR>I am in a small guild of casual players, and I know of aleast 6 other guilds exactly like my guild. We have major problems because most of us like to play alts... we find it fun to explore every aspect of a level range before moving on. Occasionally we have to delete toons to make room for more alts, at which point we loose massive amounts of guild experience... why should we? The same player is still in the guild.<BR><BR>Further more, re-inforcing what the poster above stated... what if people shift servers because of population shifts? This too has happened to my guild, and many guilds I know... Sony is pretty gracious with the "here's your chance to move for free" offers... has happened a good 4 times since launch... also as people move around games to experiement with other games, the populations of servers change. My guild came from EQ1, we were a guild comprised of EU, US and Aussie players... when EQ2 started we were the same, but our EU friends got frustrated because there were no players on in their time... they didn't want to leave out guild, and still are good friends with us, but they had to so that they could be on a server with people in there timezone.... our US friends also moved on to a different guild because there were only 4 of them in our guild... and they needed more.<BR><BR>Lets now look at the fact that very rarely does a patron earn xp on their own, half of the level range writs (15 to 20, 25 to 30, 35 to 40) can only be done by groups... most heritage quest involve atleast one "raid" that requires atleast a group... why should the guild lose xp when one person leaves, and takes the xp that 5 other helped gain?<BR><BR>Casual is just a label that has been imposed on the majority of players of this game... we still play the game alot, and we fund most of the development done in the game (simply because wether you like it or not, we are the majority of the suscriber base).<BR><BR>The rhetoric that this has made the game easier is just a big pile of farbot... the people who keep saying "people can just buy their way to 30" have obviously never actually handed in one of the status items... which at BEST give your guild 8 to 12 xp (which when levels are counted in the 100,000s of xp, is not really that much)... at any given time there would not be enough items for sale on the market of any given server to give the guild a level, even a low level... and in the time it took to gather the items you could have created an alt and done 6 level 10 writs and earned more xp.<BR><BR>Get over the change.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You're deleting alts and losing status for the guild?  Why would you have alts that have contributed lots of status that you delete?  That seems foolish.  Foolish for guild leaders to allow you to keep doing that.  In my guild, only peeps who play frequently and truely want to contribute (do writs & HQs at the expense of other things) are made patrons...and certainly not alts that they plan to delete on a whim.  Foolishness.</P> <P>Casual players are those who play maybe once a week for a few hours in general.  People who don't play games very often.  Or something along these lines.  Lvl has nothing to do with it.  Guild association has nothign to do with it.  No one who uses the term casual player is refering to level range or guild affiliation to my knowledge.</P> <P>So what if you shift servers for whatever reason.  If it's a forced shift, then your giuld shifts with you no?  If you do it on your own...then what's wrong with the guild losing your status points?  I see nothing wrong with that.  You abandoned them for a "better" server.</P> <P>Guess what...90% of my HQs were done with help yes, but not all guild help.  Some were done with the help of other players in the world who weren't in my guild.  And I have done many writs solo.  On Neriak, finding a group can be hard work sometimes...soloing is how I've gotten most of my 40 levels (by completing quests....520 and counting)</P> <P>But personally I don't really care about this change that much.  What I DO care about is the big picture.  It's just another change made in a long list of changes that will continue to happen to make the game less challenging (if it continues at this rate).  And if you think this change hasn't made it less challenging for a guild to level up, you need to sit down and write it out on paper.  It's common practice for people to leave guilds for one reason or another...and many times it is high up peeps with lots of status who leave.  Before this change, guilds could lose levels frequently, thus making it hard for a guild to truely level up or even maintain.  Now, this won't happen, thus making it....wait for it...easier for that level to maintain it's level and thus to levle up!</P> <P>No rhetoric here.  Only logical argument.</P>

[p1ut0nium]

<P>By the way...</P> <P>Status Loot <STRONG><EM>I have found</EM> </STRONG>so far gives 100 - 400 gsp not 8 or 12.  And it drops like crazy.  So, no it won't level your guild in a few hours of playing, but with every patron xping and turning the stuff in, it does tend to add up.</P> <P>I have personally witnessed the xp bar (in my lvl 19 almost 20 guild) move slightly by me turning in 4 loot status items at 400 gsp a piece.</P> <P>You might want to double check your numbers on those status items.</P>

[Ebeta]

<DIV>A tier 5 status loot item gives 400 PSP not GSP.  In my level 24 guild turning in a tier 5 status loot drop gives me 400 status points and my guild 24 status points.  It takes about 1000 status points to move our guild bar 1%.  I really dont' think this is an issue.</DIV>

[uzhiel feathered serpe]

<P>The problem is why even have patrons? why even bother? you can just get 5 people who are about to complete a heritage, patron them, get the status, and then de-patron them without a worry. </P> <P>So whats the point of being a Patron again? Hell, just can just guild people, patron them, have them complete their heritage, then thank them, give them their 20 gold, and send them on their way...using this system and with reasonable cash u can hit lvl 30 quicker than u think. This is a slap to every guild who worked their [Removed for Content] off to hit lvl 30.</P> <P> </P>

[p1ut0nium]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uzhiel feathered serpent wrote:<BR> <P>The problem is why even have patrons? why even bother? you can just get 5 people who are about to complete a heritage, patron them, get the status, and then de-patron them without a worry. </P> <P>So whats the point of being a Patron again? Hell, just can just guild people, patron them, have them complete their heritage, then thank them, give them their 20 gold, and send them on their way...using this system and with reasonable cash u can hit lvl 30 quicker than u think. This is a slap to every guild who worked their [Removed for Content] off to hit lvl 30.</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Bingo!</P> <P>I witnessed just this action first hand the other night in my guild.  I didn't complain, nor did I think it was bad.  After all, Sony is letting us do it.  But 5 of us were about to complete the Stein of Mogok.  One of us wasn't a patron.  So they made him one on the spot to get the xp.</P> <P>I'd call this a bit of an exploit or at least an overlooked consequence of the new system.<BR></P>

[p1ut0nium]

<DIV>It seams strange that different tiers of status loot have different ways of giving status (personal or guiild)...though I was under the impression that it only gave guild xp not personal.  I'm obviously wrong based on the previous poster...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless, I love status loot.  That is definitly not the issue here.  The only issue is the fact that guilds now keep all status regardless of losing members.  And guilds can now promote people just for their HQ status to level up faster.</DIV>

[p1ut0nium]

<DIV>Also...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is a guild?  It's a group of people working together right?  Therefor, shouldn't a guild's level be tied invariably to it's members status?  And therefor if those members who worked so hard to get it where it is left...should the guild not suffer the consequences?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The guild's heartbeat is created by the ebb and flow of it's members.  To state it somewhat metaphoricaly.</DIV>

[Culann Heartsto]

Well..I have to say I'm glad the change was made..I argued against guilds losing XP because people leave for a long time...and having a smaller guild..I did not want to end up with about every second person made a Patron for one reason or another. You see..in my guild..we have several who JUST got deployed to Iraq..and were Patrons.  Should we let them sit there for 7 months inactive holding status ..and a huge portion of status at that..simply because they're unable to play?  That's fair and right?  Or is it cool if we remove those as Patrons until they return, and replace them with 2 more, without dropping about 4 guild levels a person?  Hmm?  Think here..this shouldn't require a pencil even.  And of course, when they DO return, we give them the Patron status they have shown us they deserve, back. Or..try this one on.  How about the 2 we have in the guild who contributed a ton of status and no longer play at all?  It just so happened it was a couple..and the guy in the couple developed a heart condition which required them to move and relocate near a hospital.  And in doing so, because RL > MMO, EQ2 went out the window and both accounts got cancelled.  Should we just such a weasel though a jet intake here and lose out and delevel because someone's RL interfered and we were stuck with the premise of once again, having dead weight in the guild that would NEVER go away unless something like this changed?  Bear in mind that in the prior case involving those deployed, and in this case as well, these people had HQs LEFT TO COMPLETE...and by not completing them either way, we are permanently adding to our guild Patron total..which IMO..was set to be at 12 as a prime. I think most of you folks, including those of you who claim to be EQ1 veterans..have completely lost focus of some things regarding SOE as well.  Time for a refresher course, and a good example I learned of just how set this is.  Class is now in session..test on Monday... In EQ1, just prior to the Kunark expansion...2-3 months prior..EQ1 started seeing a lot of new items and other perks change...things became easier in places..coin became easier to acquire from areas...and everything was just like.."Holy crap this is insane!".  And of course Kunark did come out and it was "Monty Haul Baby!  Drag it in!"  .....for about the first 2 to 2 & 1/2 weeks.  Then the almighty nerf hammer of SOE came down and there wasn't even drop rates in places for Kunark for a while.  Fast forward to Velious..you may see the same situation occuring again..if so, points for you, cause it surely did.  Then Luclin, and so on. Are you seeing a pattern here?  This is a prevalent situation SOE has displayed multiple times..over and over and over..it's the same thing..things become almost outrageous prior to a expansion..the expansion is monty haul for a bit, then EVERYTHING gets a huge massive ungodly almighty double-handed nerfing.  And..then ...you wait for the next expansion. This is just so prevalent from SOE that I can give you a example of how it's ingrained into SOE's mentality.  My father, upon retiring, chose a retirement job of car audio installation..yeah those big dang radios you can hear blocks over.  I was speaking to him about a week or so ago, and somehow EQ2 came up and I was telling him about how the expansions seem to follow this pattern..and he told me something... He had talked to SOE's parent body..which obviously isn't SOE but Sony itself..and had gotten involved in discussions so high up the corporate ladder, he was on the phone with 2 other people at once..one who spoke Japanese, and a third who served as translator.  As it turns out..Sony's mentality is to plan WAY in advance for everything.  They plan a year ahead to manufacture, FOR EXAMPLE, 100 of type 'X' radio.  They buy / manufacture all the parts to make 100 of 'X' type of radio, assemble, ship and sell.  However..let's say they sell out of 'X' radio fast..and could have sold 100 more.  Are they going to rush out and get the parts for 100 more type 'X' radios in that year?  NO. They aren't..they wait until the next year, survey the situation and take it from there. Bottom of this particular picture is that my father learned that there..even with the core body of SOE that is Sony..it's nigh near impossible to get them to even consider or change anything, even when it would benefit them..because they create a plan longterm, and stick to it even if it's hurting them during the projected timeframe.  He found out and he had never even heard of MMOs or other until this conversation came up.  I find it remarkable to note his observations of SOE and the parent company of Sony...they are remarkably the same.  How does this relate to everything?  By pointing out that SOE is going to do this to us in EQ2...because DoF is on the way.  I would have expected the real veterans from EQ1 to see this..they had several chances after all. Back to the core topic...what SOE is doing here with guild changes, was coming for a while..if you didn't see it, you needed to take the blinders off..this is SOE's hand at work at making things outrageous prior to DoF so that everything they can possibly tweak will be as appealing as possible to the market that looks at DoF when it comes out and goes "Hmm."  This is especially so for those who DID play EQ2 but left, and are perceptually being enticed to return.  The change itself IS good for smaller guilds folks..and guild level 30 for those who go "But but but...guild level 30!" ..well it's just a matter of time.  It's going to happen to ANY guild who puts the effort into making it happen.  The only difference is how well the progress moves, or how poorly..and having the ability to add /remove patrons DID affect that. Overall..a change I did campaign for..and one I'm glad to see implemented..I am usually highly critical of SOE..but this was a good job on their part.