Please Stop Making EQ2 Less Challenging

[Jindris]

<DIV>It seems that since EQ2 was released, every update has some changed some element in the game that takes away from the challenege. The penalties for death when EQ2 was released were nothing compared to other MMO's (including EQ1). Then experience debt was lowered, making the penalties for death even less. Then they made it so that you don't even have to click on your shard. Then they made it so that you can see your group mates shards. That, as well as all the other changes, may have been good news for plat farmers who run multiple accounts at once and die alot, but each change was bad news for me and many other people who want a challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>H.O.'s were changed at some point, making it so that they cant be broken by using the wrong ability. That was a real let down for me. It made them less challenging. I wish SOE had not made that change to them, but instead made H.O.'s more effective and worth the challenge. I think this is still a big area in wich the game can improve. It seems that H.O.'s have been stuffed into some closet. If SOE wants japanese customers, they are going to have to really changed the way H.O.'s are now, because in my experience, their favorite thing in FFXI was skill-chains. I believe H.O.'s are SOE's attempt to mimic FFXI's skill chains (since SOE and SE (square-enix) work with eachother now). But I guarrantee that SOE's japanese community is not going to be very happy with them. I'm not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The new change to the guild patron system is going to take the cake. It takes away the challenge of leveling a guild, and it takes away from what it means to be a guild patron. If SOE is really serious about this, they should do away with the patron system all together, meaning that every member of a guild can effect the guilds level, and that there will be no status to switch on and off that decides wich members effect the guild level. It does not make any sense to do away with the penalties of losing patrons, but still being able to choose who are patrons or not. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>With all the kinds of changes I've seen in EQ2 since release, its more and more obvious that EQ2 was not ready to be released. Were are in BETA now, and the reason I say that is because playing EQ2 has made me feel like some sort of guinnea pig in a hamster wheel. EQ2 was too easy of a game at release. If anything make the game more challenging. </DIV>

[Naughtesn]

I don't like that this message was one-starred.  This is such a common theme that a new thread was NOT necessary - but the content is not 1-star material - I agree with the theme of the post).  Fixing the karma...

[Jindris]

<DIV>For everyone information, the person who one-starred me not only did NOT give a response, but he didn't even read it. Right after I hit submit and went back to the thread, it was already one-starred.</DIV>

[Desulto]

<DIV>Edit: changed my mind. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Desultory on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:10 AM</span>

[Andre]

<DIV>I think most problem is not a challanging but game bocome slightly less and less rewarding. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Up to "challenging" go look for rewamped RAID content. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First thing people should get before complaining about such terms like "challanging" etc- this is a game! No one must work hard to lvl and see new things/new content. Looks like some people withouta proper family/work want make from this game a surrogate fpr their lifes.</DIV>

[RexTenebrarum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Andre Z wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think most problem is not a challanging but game bocome slightly less and less rewarding. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Up to "challenging" go look for rewamped RAID content. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First thing people should get before complaining about such terms like "challanging" etc- this is a game! No one must work hard to lvl and see new things/new content. Looks like some people withouta proper family/work want make from this game a surrogate fpr their lifes.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Why is that always when somebody asks for the game to be challenging they are told to have no life outside the game? What I understand from your reply is that you want to log in and kill a mob and see a master chest drop. Wouldn't it be easier if they gave you a /god_mode command? <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree with the OP.. each time I level another toon and pass through the different zones they seem less and less of a challenge. Take EL for example.. 6-7 months ago, those wasps were nasty..now most of them are non aggro and those that are aggro, are just a nuissance and hardly a challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The game should provide area's where people with less time or dedication can go and still get decent loot and xp, but there should also be more challenging content, and not only at the end-game. I raided quite a bit since I dinged 50 a couple of months back, but even that gets boring after some time. It's good they added more challenge to the raid mobs, but not everybody is into that. And for the people who like to level alts, having to go through level after level of non challenging content before you can get to the challenges is just not fair. Luckily the quests keep it at least a bit interesting, since I don't like to just grind..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think however Splitpaw was a big step in the right direction again ..mobs scaling in level, selectable difficutly on instances.. I liked it very much.. however content like this shouldn't be restricted only to people who bought the adventure pack. But it sure is a step in the right direction</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Mattissi]

<DIV>Somebody who complains about the automatic shard pickup must be out of this world. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But then, it was so much fun clicking on that white corpse man I was always disappointed when I retrieved the shard and couldnt click on that funny white corpse anymore!</DIV>

[Suraklin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RexTenebrarum wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Andre Z wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think most problem is not a challanging but game bocome slightly less and less rewarding. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Up to "challenging" go look for rewamped RAID content. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>First thing people should get before complaining about such terms like "challanging" etc- this is a game! No one must work hard to lvl and see new things/new content. Looks like some people withouta proper family/work want make from this game a surrogate fpr their lifes.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Why is that always when somebody asks for the game to be challenging they are told to have no life outside the game? What I understand from your reply is that you want to log in and kill a mob and see a master chest drop. <FONT color=#cc0033>Wouldn't it be easier if they gave you a /god_mode command?</FONT> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree with the OP.. each time I level another toon and pass through the different zones they seem less and less of a challenge. Take EL for example.. 6-7 months ago, those wasps were nasty..now most of them are non aggro and those that are aggro, are just a nuissance and hardly a challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The game should provide area's where people with less time or dedication can go and still get decent loot and xp, but there should also be more challenging content, and not only at the end-game. I raided quite a bit since I dinged 50 a couple of months back, but even that gets boring after some time. It's good they added more challenge to the raid mobs, but not everybody is into that. And for the people who like to level alts, having to go through level after level of non challenging content before you can get to the challenges is just not fair. Luckily the quests keep it at least a bit interesting, since I don't like to just grind..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think however Splitpaw was a big step in the right direction again ..mobs scaling in level, selectable difficutly on instances.. I liked it very much.. however content like this shouldn't be restricted only to people who bought the adventure pack. But it sure is a step in the right direction</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Already got godmode in game it's called Trial of Harclave. Just wiating for them to add it as a potion to have godmode anywhere lol.<BR>

[Aienaa]

<HR> <FONT color=#66ffff>I agree with the OP.. each time I level another toon and pass through the different zones they seem less and less of a challenge. Take EL for example.. 6-7 months ago, those wasps were nasty..now most of them are non aggro and those that are aggro, are just a nuissance and hardly a challenge.</FONT> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I bet your twink is better equiped than you main character was that you originally went through that zone 6-7 months ago...  I know my level 34 twink is wearing pristine imbued rare crafted BP and Legs, and pretty much all pristine crafted armor and jewelery... None of this I was able to get made, or could even afford had it been available, when I leveled my first character...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What has made things less of a challange is the fact that alot of people have hit 50 and have started new characters...  They have the money to equip thoes new characters in gear that is alot better then what they could afford to equip thier original character....   People have also devolped thier tradeskills, it is no longer nearly impossible to find someone able to make the items you desire, where 6-7 months ago there was maybe 1-2 people that could make the items, now there are many...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You can not compare the game from when it was new, to how it is now...  When it was new there was not level 50 characters, there was not the amount of money available as there is now...  Things were harder because there was none of the stuff available that there is today....  You could not find armor, weapons, Adept 1 spells (let alone Adept 3 or master), but not the market is flooded with all of that, and it was not SOE who put it all on the market, it was the players...  It's not that they are making the game easier, we are the ones making the game easier...  It because of all the work that people put into leveling over the past 6-7 months that has made the game easier...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, if you want to blame someone for making the game less challenging....  Blame yourself, blame me, blame anyone that has leveled through the game and made it possible for others to have an easier time...  We're the ones that have made it less challanging...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 50 Assassin - Kithicor</DIV>

[Andre]

<DIV>Its not matter whether i want get master I just on logging nor i won't but point is players should have an possibility to get their masters wihtout RAIDS and big guilds. Its generally. More detailed - there should be thrill if anyone killed a tought mob and tryed to open a chest - there no single lettle thrill just because every single mob drops pretty same stuff and all of it just useless. Useless = only Wholesaler show some interest for those items/books/corper parts.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So this game lack not a chellange but reward.</DIV>

[RexTenebrarum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <HR> <FONT color=#66ffff>I agree with the OP.. each time I level another toon and pass through the different zones they seem less and less of a challenge. Take EL for example.. 6-7 months ago, those wasps were nasty..now most of them are non aggro and those that are aggro, are just a nuissance and hardly a challenge.</FONT> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I bet your twink is better equiped than you main character was that you originally went through that zone 6-7 months ago...  I know my level 34 twink is wearing pristine imbued rare crafted BP and Legs, and pretty much all pristine crafted armor and jewelery... None of this I was able to get made, or could even afford had it been available, when I leveled my first character...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, if you want to blame someone for making the game less challenging....  Blame yourself, blame me, blame anyone that has leveled through the game and made it possible for others to have an easier time...  We're the ones that have made it less challanging...</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes.. all my older alts are in Legendary gear, and I do agree that this makes the game even less challenging. </P> <P>To counter this I've started equipping my newest alts with looted/vendor bought "crap" gear.. and guess what.. it's still easier then before. Is this becasue of being more skilled at the game then before? Or because I know the zones inside and out? I don't think so...</P> <P>I think it's because a lot of the zones have been downgraded (made less challenging).. to take my wasp example in EL.. the players didn't remove those ^^ or the aggro from those mobs.. those changes were done by SOE ..And it's not just EL.. it's also in other zones that this has happened.. So no.. I will not blame you or myself.. the things the players did to make it easier can be countered.. the downgrading of the mobs or the game as a whole, can't.</P> <P>Take care.<BR></P>

[Cuz]

"Why is that always when somebody asks for the game to be challenging they are told to have no life outside the game? What I understand from your reply is that you want to log in and kill a mob and see a master chest drop. Wouldn't it be easier if they gave you a /god_mode command? " <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cuz you imagine it maybe? Really he never tells anyone to go outside. I'll ask you this though, why is it that every time someone says it's not challenging enough (or too) someone mentions master chests?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Aienaa]

<P></P> <HR> <FONT color=#33ccff>To counter this I've started equipping my newest alts with looted/vendor bought "crap" gear.. and guess what.. it's still easier then before. Is this becasue of being more skilled at the game then before? Or because I know the zones inside and out? I don't think so...</FONT> <P></P> <HR> <P>The stuff you call vendor bought "crap" gear is still better than what we had in the beginning...  I remember going to the NPC merchants and buying weapons/armor off them... they had no stats and usually less AC or damage than dropped stuff....  The stuff your calling "crap" would have been great items back them</P> <P></P> <HR> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>I think it's because a lot of the zones have been downgraded (made less challenging).. to take my wasp example in EL.. the players didn't remove those ^^ or the aggro from those mobs.. those changes were done by SOE ..And it's not just EL.. it's also in other zones that this has happened.. So no.. I will not blame you or myself.. the things the players did to make it easier can be countered.. the downgrading of the mobs or the game as a whole, can't.</FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>If you want "more challenging" go to one of the inside zones where there are more  ^^...  The outside zones were adjusted for more solo/small group content, but not all group mobs were removed...  And it wasn't to make it "easier", it was because you can't always find groups to kill the ^^, and if you wern't lucky enough to get a group, then you were just sitting there watching others kill stuff...  I know before they made thoes changes, there was several times that I would be LFG for hours on end and solo / small group content wasn't in the game...  At least there is something to do now other than watch others kill stuff...  If you want the "challenge", then go where the ^^ are...  I was in RE the other day and not a single person was there, and I bet that is just a bit more "challenging" than the bees in EL....</P> <P>Or maybe that is the "challenge" your wanting back in the game...  The "challenge" of finding a well put together group so you can actually kill something....</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 50 Assassin - Kithicor</P>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <P></P> <HR> <FONT color=#33ccff>To counter this I've started equipping my newest alts with looted/vendor bought "crap" gear.. and guess what.. it's still easier then before. Is this becasue of being more skilled at the game then before? Or because I know the zones inside and out? I don't think so...</FONT> <P></P> <HR> <P>The stuff you call vendor bought "crap" gear is still better than what we had in the beginning...  I remember going to the NPC merchants and buying weapons/armor off them... they had no stats and usually less AC or damage than dropped stuff....  The stuff your calling "crap" would have been great items back them</P> <P></P> <HR> <P><FONT color=#33ccff>I think it's because a lot of the zones have been downgraded (made less challenging).. to take my wasp example in EL.. the players didn't remove those ^^ or the aggro from those mobs.. those changes were done by SOE ..And it's not just EL.. it's also in other zones that this has happened.. So no.. I will not blame you or myself.. the things the players did to make it easier can be countered.. the downgrading of the mobs or the game as a whole, can't.</FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> <P>If you want "more challenging" go to one of the inside zones where there are more  ^^...  The outside zones were adjusted for more solo/small group content, but not all group mobs were removed...  And it wasn't to make it "easier", it was because you can't always find groups to kill the ^^, and if you wern't lucky enough to get a group, then you were just sitting there watching others kill stuff...  I know before they made thoes changes, there was several times that I would be LFG for hours on end and solo / small group content wasn't in the game...  At least there is something to do now other than watch others kill stuff...  If you want the "challenge", then go where the ^^ are...  I was in RE the other day and not a single person was there, and I bet that is just a bit more "challenging" than the bees in EL....</P> <P>Or maybe that is the "challenge" your wanting back in the game...  The "challenge" of finding a well put together group so you can actually kill something....</P> <P>Gwern - 50 Assassin - Kithicor</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>They did make the mobs easier in overland zones. While I welcomed the change to a certain extent, it went too far. It IS too easy if you want a challenge. The solution to this is something they've been exploring (though who ever knows when something will be implemented) but they've actually done this a couple of times to test content changes out. That would be creating a duplicate of each major instanced zone, such as EL, with a choice of the current solo easy content or something like the original difficulty of the overland zones. It doesn't have to be "either/or" as far as solo content vs group is concerned, it can be "and."</P> <P>I would prefer like previous posters that not so much difficult content be located only in dungeons like RE. This puts limitations on some classes over others that I'm sure you realize. When a class has to root mobs off or kite them in some manner or split them to work effectively, than it is much to your benefit to be in an open area vs a small room in a dungeon. Some classes can solo far more easily in a dungeon than others....I know I have a clear advantage over non healers in my guild in soloing dungeons in Splitpaw. Though as an assassin you can sneak to the content of your choice, while I am at the moment stuck fighting my way in through an indoor zone.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 42 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore<BR></P>

[Cecil_Stri]

<DIV>They added more solo content... Nothing wrong with that at all.. and at the end of the game (LS and EF) its still the same amount of group mobs as always</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The complaining about not needing to click on your shard was just dumb... they had many reasons to do this...  Getting your shard lost in lava in instance zones comes to mind</DIV>

[Dav]

<DIV>The Elitism theme is really getting old, I'm just waiting for the post that simply states: "oh noz you're making this game TOO EASY!1!" Guild level has absolutely no effect on how Challenging your gaming experience is, infact making it impossible for the small casual guild to EVER reach GL30 to me means that there was something wrong with the system to begin with.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know that EQ2 guilds were originally designed to be very competitive organizations, where the biggest and best rewards were reserved for the best of the best on each server. Except that besides a couple status symbols those rewards do not exsist, and as long as you have a bank roll to cover it, anyone could make friends with, and join a level 30 guild for a day to grab those few "bling-bling" items. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Obviously, I like the idea that even small guilds can one day achieve guild level 30 with these changes, but at the same time I hope that one day great rewards like (just an example) non-instanced guild halls are given to the best good/evil guilds on the server, but I think much more then your guild's level should reflect on these things. </DIV>

[Aienaa]

<HR> <FONT color=#66ffff>I would prefer like previous posters that not so much difficult content be located only in dungeons like RE. This puts limitations on some classes over others that I'm sure you realize. When a class has to root mobs off or kite them in some manner or split them to work effectively, than it is much to your benefit to be in an open area vs a small room in a dungeon. Some classes can solo far more easily in a dungeon than others....I know I have a clear advantage over non healers in my guild in soloing dungeons in Splitpaw. Though as an assassin you can sneak to the content of your choice, while I am at the moment stuck fighting my way in through an indoor zone.</FONT> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>This is not about the soloability of the game, it's about having a "challange" present in the game...  The challange is there, if you choose that path, but there is also the easier content for thoes that play solo / small group...   Using the example I gave...  If you feel the bees in EL are not challenging enough, then go to RE where there is ^^ mobs and is much more challenging...</P> <P>I'm not sure which zones you are refering to in Splitpaw, but there are zones geared for solo and for group and some that are a mix...  Harclave (AKA God Mode) is intended for solo play...  The Hideout has both a solo section and a group section...  The Upper Tunnels also has a solo and group section...  If I remember right, the Grotto is more group orientated along with Crawler Extermination....</P> <P>The challange is there if you seek it out, but don't go to one of the solo zones or kill only solo mobs and then complain that the game is too easy when you could be going to one of the group orientated zones that provide more challange...</P> <P> </P> <P>Gwern - 50 Assassin - Kithicor</P>

[Moorgard]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jindrisek wrote:<BR> <DIV>It seems that since EQ2 was released, every update has some changed some element in the game that takes away from the challenege. The penalties for death when EQ2 was released were nothing compared to other MMO's (including EQ1). Then experience debt was lowered, making the penalties for death even less. Then they made it so that you don't even have to click on your shard. Then they made it so that you can see your group mates shards. That, as well as all the other changes, may have been good news for plat farmers who run multiple accounts at once and die alot, but each change was bad news for me and many other people who want a challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>H.O.'s were changed at some point, making it so that they cant be broken by using the wrong ability. That was a real let down for me. It made them less challenging. I wish SOE had not made that change to them, but instead made H.O.'s more effective and worth the challenge. </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If your premise is that streamlining the interface and making content more accessible makes the game less challenging, I have to disagree. Granted, for some players the act of mastering a game interface that seems complicated to others is part of the fun, but that's just not the direction we wanted to go. One of our design goals was to make the interface as fluid and easy-to-use as possible, and not have it get in the way of gameplay. While I'm sure that there will be other games that will require you to master a complex user interface, we're not going to be one of them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allowing shards to be retrieved via proximity was more about reducing CS petitions than it was about changing gameplay. It was the single biggest drain on GM time, and now shard retrieval issues have dwindled to almost nothing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group experience debt seems trivial to many, and a lot of players (including myself) actually like the way it works. Yet no matter how minor the debt may be, the system itself remains one of the most-cited reasons for players leaving the game. That's why it's a topic we discuss internally quite a bit and will likely revisit in the near future.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some may have liked the way HOs worked before, and felt rewarded when they pulled them off. That's understandable, because they required a lot of coordination to get right. But again, that's a matter of the interface getting in the way, not heroic opportunities being challenging in and of themselves. The simple fact is that the interface caused HOs to hardly ever be used in groups. Since the best HOs are group based, that's hardly an ideal situation. The worst thing was that people playing their classes the right way were causing HOs to fail. That doesn't seem like good gameplay to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now all that said, there are changes you can point to and legitimately say that challenge was reduced. Changing a mob from heroic to solo certainly makes it a less challenging encounter, but there was a definite need for more solo and small group content in the world. Downtiering was far from the most elegant solution to that problem, but it was the most effective in terms of time and resources. This is another issue we plan to look at again and perhaps devise a more ideal solution for. Personally, I'd like to see heroic encounters that can be picked apart if you have the right abilities and sufficient skill. That's a cause I plan to champion, so wish me luck. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The goal isn't to make the game less challenging by any means. The goal is to make the game easier to get into and more enjoyable to stick around in, and part of that is actually increasing the challenge to make accomplishments more meaningful. I've been playing with the combat changes a lot lately, and I feel that they will bump up the challenge level of the game in a good way. As a bruiser, I really like them. While some of my attacks have changed, the biggest difference is in buffs. I've had a lot of fun figuring out which choices to make, and there are some very cool strategies for picking out which offensive and defensive buffs to use in a fight. Having no casting time on most attacks changes the pace of combat a lot, and I like it. While fighting solo encounters is just as doable for me, heroic mobs are definitely going to need a group to go after.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The challenge of EverQuest II is going to be in its gameplay, not in complex systems or tricky interfaces. "Accessible" and "easy" do not mean the same thing.</DIV>

[Handleba]

Are you saying that casting times will be deleted in the combat changes that are going to happen when? <div></div>

[FlintAH]

Then why are you changing it so people outside of locked encounter can assist? <div></div>

[TheSpin]

<DIV>I kinda agree and mostly disagree with this post</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>HOs were made easier in  a way, but also more realistic and more challenging, it used to be difficult to start a wheel but once that happened you had a whopping 30 seconds to figure it out.  Now you only get 10 seconds to complete them but creating the wheel is easier, makes more sense to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Something needed to be done with the guild thing because so many people have no way to contribute to the exp of their guild.  Noone wants to put all their stock into 12 patrons out of 50 people and pray nothing happens to them that makes them play less.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's my 2cents</DIV>

[GrimStone]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <BR><BR> <DIV>Granted, for some players the act of mastering a game interface that seems complicated to others is part of the fun, but that's just not the direction we wanted to go. One of our design goals was to make the interface as fluid and easy-to-use as possible, and not have it get in the way of gameplay. <BR> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tell that to the 12 pages of people in the UI Forum who fight a constant battle, for a half hour, every time they log on, trying to reconfigure their chat windows which didn't save AGAIN.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For people who want the interface to be uncomplicated and streamlined you sure are doing a great job ignoring this issue, that has been around since launch.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I'm not saying you guys haven't done a great job with this game, but for those of us who have this chat windows not saving bug, It is a major challenge to overcome every time we want to play.  </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Feaw]

<P>Ive found that I get HO duds these days.   It happens often enough to be frustrating.   If I blow the HO fine  or if my advancment is resisted thats understandable too but if I hit the HO trigger and it just does nothing then its not fun.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Dae]

We're what 8 months from release? The UI in EQ1 (like a lot of things in EQ1 actually) is still far superior to the one we have in EQ2. - Storage of chat colours either on the server or in some encrypted form. - Still no hits-mode. - Bunch of people who can't even save their UI changes. - Non-simple that commands that lack the functionality of those in a much older game. - No server side filtering of chat. - Filters with terribly vague descriptions. Anyway back to the original topic... I didn't mind them adding more solo content. Lets be honest here. It IS solo content. Small groups wouldn't touch non-heroic mobs for xp since it sucks and there's even less challenge than there is soloing. Lets take the commonlands as an example. Designated areas where soloers could go and spam mobs to death to their hearts content would be great. However what we got was not that... So far as I can tell the entire commonlands is now solo mobs except for around Valmarr and a few pirates. In the same vein I couldn't find a single heroic mob on the docks side of the EL wall. Our "small group" as Sony like to put it had nothing to do in that zone at 31ish. Don't even begin to kid yourselves that the game has the same level of difficulty as it did at launch. As a side note other than his weapon the alt I'm playing has worse gear than our guilds main tank did at the time. <div></div>

[RexTenebrarum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group experience debt seems trivial to many, and a lot of players (including myself) actually like the way it works. Yet no matter how minor the debt may be, the system itself remains one of the most-cited reasons for players leaving the game. That's why it's a topic we discuss internally quite a bit and will likely revisit in the near future.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>Although it's frustrating to get debt (once you hit 50, you don't really care anymore :womanwink: ) from a person who tries to jump the lava river in LS or some other stupid action, There should be a penalty when somebody dies in the group. It <STRONG><U>generally</U></STRONG> means the group made a mistake. But please don't remove debt altogether (some exceptions could apply)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I'd like to see heroic encounters that can be picked apart if you have the right abilities and sufficient skill. That's a cause I plan to champion, so wish me luck. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ff33>I really would like to see that happen. It would allow for some very exciting gameplay. Good luck in trying to get that implemented. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The goal isn't to make the game less challenging by any means. The goal is to make the game easier to get into and more enjoyable to stick around in, and part of that is actually increasing the challenge to make accomplishments more meaningful. I've been playing with the combat changes a lot lately, and I feel that they will bump up the challenge level of the game in a good way. As a bruiser, I really like them. While some of my attacks have changed, the biggest difference is in buffs. I've had a lot of fun figuring out which choices to make, and there are some very cool strategies for picking out which offensive and defensive buffs to use in a fight. Having no casting time on most attacks changes the pace of combat a lot, and I like it. While fighting solo encounters is just as doable for me, heroic mobs are definitely going to need a group to go after.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><FONT color=#66ff33>Thanks for clarifying a bit more on the combat changes. I can see now how the DPS chart and buffing come together (if I understand correctly), and it looks good <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Two remarks though:  If we have to switch buffs often, please make it so that the buff you want to cast (if it doesn't stack with the current one) cancels out the previous one automatically and we don't need to cancel it manually. Secondly: if there is no casting time anymore, will we still receive enough warning to interupt an NPC? Currently with enough skill and depending on class you're  able to interupt about 50-75% of casts. </FONT></P> <P></P> <HR> <P><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by RexTenebrarum on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:30 AM</span>

[Grifful]

<P>This thread lured me in as my girlfriend and I have recently had a few discussions over the game feeling like it is becoming simpler.</P> <P>We recalled the days of hunting the resources for the dwarven workboots, eagerly attacking the piece of ore, being devastated about failing to obtain anything from it and moving onto the next.</P> <P>I fondly, (if that is the right word), recall fleeing for my life with 3 or 4 wasps in hot pursuit.</P> <P>I recall the day I ventured to the local npc merchant to obtain a set of plate armour (no stats like you get off players) Obviously my girlfriend had to help me cover the cost. She was and still is the more thrifty of the two of us.</P> <P>I remember having a dwarven monk take us through HO drills on the northern(ish) beach of Thundering Steppes for a good hour before he would lead us into combat against the groups of gnolls</P> <DIV>So many good memories <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But things change. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally I am happy with the HO changes. They always were a bit tricky to pull off, especially with some nutter scout firing off his techniques without any awareness of what others were trying to do <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Wood elf I think he was...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The wasps are indeed easier. Certainly the landing on the shores of EL are not the terrifying experience it once was but is this a bad thing? People only need to venture a bit further northward before they realise this picturesque little island isn't an ideal location for a holiday.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I sometimes wonder if anyone ever buys armour or equipment off the npcs anymore. I guess they do, if they're like me and didn't discover the market till they are into their 20s <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I seem to have veered away from making any sort of a point and wound up reminiscing. How embarassing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lets see if I can redeem myself slightly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I agree some things have been made easier. The wasps and HOs for example.</DIV> <DIV>But I don't think these have detracted from the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have issues with the maps containing too many signposts on them (I would much rather be able to put my own notes on maps rather than have big yellow circles showing me the secret underwater entrance to Qeynos) but I deal with it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm quite against the potential "no guild status loss" change but I have waffled on about that in another post.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think I have forgotten what I was originally going to say. Must be the time of night. </DIV><p>Message Edited by Griffulon on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:45 PM</span>

[Traigus]

I don't think MG meant spells were 0 cast time, just Combat Arts.... and then just the non-buff ones. He was kinda unclear, BUT he was just talking abut his bruiser... so I don't think he meant spells at all. -T <div></div>

[Vashn]

<P>I think this is an interesting problem.</P> <P>EQ1 started it all hahah..</P> <P>But seriously some gamers like ez.. some like hard.. some like 1-2 hours some 10 hours + ignore crying kids and hungry wife.</P> <P> </P> <P>I think a good idea would be to break the servers down even more.</P> <P>Difficulty HARD would be existing server XP grind with maybe more harder heroics and stuff.</P> <P>Easy server would be double the XP ... or quadruple. this would be for casual customers that want to play eq2</P> <P>and enjoy content but not kill the same things over and over again for hours.. also this Easy server would have</P> <P>no XP penalty.</P> <P> </P> <P>Then you use free movelogs to get everyone where they want to be. Make both customers happy.</P> <P>Soloist and people that are busy but LOVE the eq franchise and have high performance pc's.</P> <P>If they are smiling they will pay just to have content access.</P> <P> </P> <P>People that LOVE it hard and challenging.. well just make a hard server and turn up the pain for them.</P> <P> </P> <P>How would like your Tai Food sir? 1 thru 10 in hotness.</P> <P> </P> <P>Cheers..</P> <P>(I like EZ btw because I am disabled and have 3 spinal diseases I get sick even trying to grind</P> <P>in EQ1 2 or SWG).</P> <P>EDIT: Ok 1 more thing .. the cost to execute this should not be too expensive.</P> <P>You code in the quadruple .. triple or double at a min xp boost. That should only be a few lines of code</P> <P>in patch. Couple hours work there.</P> <P>Then put back some heroics.. a weeks work there or so. Then the movelogs and meetings.</P> <P>Try 1 New EZ and 1 new SUPER CHALLENGE (hard) </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Vashner on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:18 AM</span>

[Taidi]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV><FONT color=#6666ff>*snip*</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now all that said, there are changes you can point to and legitimately say that challenge was reduced. Changing a mob from heroic to solo certainly makes it a less challenging encounter, but there was a definite need for more solo and small group content in the world. Downtiering was far from the most elegant solution to that problem, but it was the most effective in terms of time and resources. This is another issue we plan to look at again and perhaps devise a more ideal solution for. Personally, I'd like to see heroic encounters that can be picked apart if you have the right abilities and sufficient skill. That's a cause I plan to champion, so wish me luck. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The goal isn't to make the game less challenging by any means. The goal is to make the game easier to get into and more enjoyable to stick around in, and part of that is actually increasing the challenge to make accomplishments more meaningful. I've been playing with the combat changes a lot lately, and I feel that they will bump up the challenge level of the game in a good way. As a bruiser, I really like them. While some of my attacks have changed, the biggest difference is in buffs. I've had a lot of fun figuring out which choices to make, and there are some very cool strategies for picking out which offensive and defensive buffs to use in a fight. Having no casting time on most attacks changes the pace of combat a lot, and I like it. While fighting solo encounters is just as doable for me, heroic mobs are definitely going to need a group to go after.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The challenge of EverQuest II is going to be in its gameplay, not in complex systems or tricky interfaces. "Accessible" and "easy" do not mean the same thing.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>For the first paragraph:</DIV> <DIV>I would love to see this happen. Currently, all fights I take place in are carried out more or less the exact same way with every character I have. HO, starter, trigger, few other abilities, rinse, wash, repeat. The only time that changes is when my dirge gets in a bind and I have to start kiting, which means I actually enjoy getting in binds. :smileywink: Implementing normal solo and heroic battles that require some thinking and planning to pull off would be a welcome addition. Good luck on this. :smileyhappy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2nd paragraph:</DIV> <DIV>If you're saying what I think you're saying in that last section, let me be the first to say: <STRONG>YES!</STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Since beginning the game, I've yearned for there to be more differentiation between how combat abilities and spells are executed. Removing the cast time from a kick makes sense, and is, I think, a step in the right direction. Kudos to the dev team for this. Now I'm looking forward to the upcoming revamp even more. :smileywink: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now if only instruments would be implemented... *hint, hint*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In closing, I have a question concering your final statement. You say that the challenge in EverQuest II will not be from a tricky interface or complex systems, but the gameplay itself. Currently, I find the UI to be very simple and easy to use, and I like it. My question is about the differentiation of complex systems and the gameplay itself. I'm probably just not picturing it right (or thinking straight, due to it being so early,) but to me, the underlying systems are the chief aspect of gameplay. If the underlying systems and formulas for the game aren't going to be complex, how will the gameplay accomplish this? Your statement, <EM>"Personally, I'd like to see heroic encounters that can be picked apart if you have the right abilities and sufficient skill."</EM> even seems to be hinting at a complex system that requires the player to use the correct abilities for the situtation in a certain way to accomplish a difficult task. In other words, player skill will be involved. It will be a challenge, and I love the idea. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My question is, if situations such as these aren't going to be carried out using a complex system requiring a complex solution, how will they be implemented? I ask because I am genuinely interested, and would love to see more challenges that require more strategy than "Pull, kill, repeat," and would like to know how they might work. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks again, Moorgard. Keep up the good work, and tell the rest of the dev team the same. :smileywink:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Taidien on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:47 AM</span>

[Jenj]

<P>The problem I see is that more content is coming-out (e.g. Splitpaw) and the server population either staying the same or goes down. Compounded with the fact the there are drastically less group mobs to hunt, finding good pick-up groups has become difficult. Also, Splitpaw has trivialized group play b/c you are able to gain signficantly faster exps and cash by soloing (e.g. Harclaves). Resulting in other zones having low population and more folks soloing versus grouping. The whole idea of scalable instances (e.g. Splitpaw) pretty much allows an adventurer to stay in 1-spot all the way to level-50 and undermines the value (and playability) of all other zones that arent scalable. Places like Runneyeye are virtual ghost towns and should have a "for sale" sign attached to them.</P> <P>The question is why do I want to group? LFG takes longer to fill b/c less ppl grouping, less group mobs, and soloing is significantly faster for exps, loot, and cash. Just stick a bed, broker board, and TS equipment in Splitpaw and you could scrap all the other zones in EQ2.</P> <P>-Jenjer</P>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aienaa wrote:<BR> <HR> <FONT color=#66ffff>I would prefer like previous posters that not so much difficult content be located only in dungeons like RE. This puts limitations on some classes over others that I'm sure you realize. When a class has to root mobs off or kite them in some manner or split them to work effectively, than it is much to your benefit to be in an open area vs a small room in a dungeon. Some classes can solo far more easily in a dungeon than others....I know I have a clear advantage over non healers in my guild in soloing dungeons in Splitpaw. Though as an assassin you can sneak to the content of your choice, while I am at the moment stuck fighting my way in through an indoor zone.</FONT> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <P>This is not about the soloability of the game, it's about having a "challange" present in the game...  The challange is there, if you choose that path, but there is also the easier content for thoes that play solo / small group...   Using the example I gave...  If you feel the bees in EL are not challenging enough, then go to RE where there is ^^ mobs and is much more challenging...</P> <P>I'm not sure which zones you are refering to in Splitpaw, but there are zones geared for solo and for group and some that are a mix...  Harclave (AKA God Mode) is intended for solo play...  The Hideout has both a solo section and a group section...  The Upper Tunnels also has a solo and group section...  If I remember right, the Grotto is more group orientated along with Crawler Extermination....</P> <P>The challange is there if you seek it out, but don't go to one of the solo zones or kill only solo mobs and then complain that the game is too easy when you could be going to one of the group orientated zones that provide more challange...</P> <P>Gwern - 50 Assassin - Kithicor</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>Moorgard said:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffcc00>Now all that said, there are changes you can point to and legitimately say that challenge was reduced. Changing a mob from heroic to solo certainly makes it a less challenging encounter, but there was a definite need for more solo and small group content in the world. <STRONG>Downtiering was far from the most elegant solution to that problem, but it was the most effective in terms of time and resources.</STRONG> This is another issue we plan to look at again and perhaps devise a more ideal solution for. Personally, I'd like to see heroic encounters that can be picked apart if you have the right abilities and sufficient skill. That's a cause I plan to champion, so wish me luck. <IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" width=16 border=0></FONT></DIV> <P></P> <HR> <P>Two things here. I am not of the very old EQL school (though I was there from the time the servers came up) who thinks that all the most challenging content needs to be tucked away in dungeons somewhere. That is all I was saying. About Splitpaw, I simply meant that some classes have a much easier time with certain SOLO instances there, because it is easier for some classes to solo with less space to move than others. Since I thought the topic was at least partially about loss of challenge to solo players, many of them wishing that there was more of the heroic content available that they used to attempt when they first went to zones like EL.</P> <P>Also, for a group first coming to a zone like EL, there is no readily available group content. I came to EL at about 29, and getting to RE would have been a nightmare with a small group at that level. But at that time, they hadn't downtiered, many of the wasps, bears, and even the badgers were heroic. We all nearly died trying to kill a normal badger for one quest, for instance. Which brings up another point. One of the first things most of us do in a new zone is start collecting quests. How exciting is it to have everyone with five or six quests in their journal for stuff like wasps and mischievous maidens and bear cubs when it's all solo? It's a discouragement to initial group play in those zones. Having to kill the occasional solo mobs for quests is fine, but having most of the quest not provide any group alternatives is pretty boring compared to when the game first came out and you could usually find solo AND group versions of many mobs. I am not arguing that my usual group can't find challenging content. We do. But to do so we have to skip over entire content areas now, and that's kind of sad.</P> <P>The point is that EL was NOT a "solo zone." Thundering Steppes was largely not a "solo zone," Antonica wasn't a "solo zone." I agree that they needed to add more solo possibilities in, as MG states in his post I quoted. But note the bolded line about downtiering. That's what they called it when they removed the heroic flag from over half the outdoor zone content. He admits right there it wasn't the best solution. I understand why it was done that way for the reasons of time and effort he refers to, but we have a lot less server load now. It's not that often that I even see two Thundering Steppes anymore, let alone any of the higher zones. I would think allowing a "heroic" instance as well as the downtiered instance for outdoor zones would be an easy compromise. Yes, they moved towards that in Splitpaw with its difficulty levels, but variety is the spice of life. It's encouraging to me that MG says they hope to look at this situation again, since they themselves aren't best pleased with the fast fix.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 42 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P>

[PhozFa]

------------------------- the problem I see is that more content is coming-out (e.g. Splitpaw) ------------------------- <font color="#ff0000">New content is a problem? would you rather fight in the zones for 6 years? i wouldn't. Besides content is a fad. do you think as many people would be in splitpaw after the new expansion? i don't kills gnolls get boring after a few lvls. </font> --------------------------- Also, Splitpaw has trivialized group play b/c you are able to gain signficantly faster exps and cash by soloing (e.g. Harclaves). Resulting in other zones having low population and more folks soloing versus grouping --------------------------- <font color="#ff0000">grouping is great only one problem. can't always find a group everytime of the day. also being a tank that is 1 spot out of 6. if a group already has a tank they ain't rushing to invite another. group xp sucks when you spend 1-2 hours lfg when you can play for 2-3 hours. Atleast in the splitpaw setup i can sit in the den and try to put together a group or find a group and do solo instances in between. i also keep lfg on inside them and can exit if a group wants to go do something else. </font> ----------------------------- The whole idea of scalable instances (e.g. Splitpaw) pretty much allows an adventurer to stay in 1-spot all the way to level-50 and undermines the value (and playability) of all other zones that arent scalable ----------------------------- <font color="#ff0000">I kinda agree with you here. split is an advantage over other zones because you can scale the challenge along with your own lvl. that option is great thou, you can have a challenge that you want. But i personally did SP thou 44-50 and that was alot. i couldn't do that 20-50 without going insane. I'm sure some people will thou and for those people its thier own problem they aren't seeing other content. those people just care about grinding anyway </font> ------------------------- Places like Runneyeye are virtual ghost towns and should have a "for sale" sign attached to them. -------------------------<font color="#ff0000"> </font><font color="#ff0000">ever think the average level of the player based constantly goes up therefor RE/TS/ROV/ ect.. won't be uber crowded places. </font>

[kallab]

<DIV>Making the game to easy totally agree, might as well play WOW</DIV>

[fatredfr]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <P>your premise is that streamlining the interface and making content more accessible makes the game less challenging, I have to disagree. Granted, for some players the act of mastering a game interface that seems complicated to others is part of the fun, but that's just not the direction we wanted to go. One of our design goals was to make the interface as fluid and easy-to-use as possible, and not have it get in the way of gameplay. While I'm sure that there will be other games that will require you to master a complex user interface, we're not going to be one of them</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry, but i find this laughable considering there's been no time, what so ever, put into fixing the UI bug which doesn't save configurations which has been present since release.  You wanna streamline the interface....how about making it so the player doesn't have to reconfigure it EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY LOG IN.  It's rediculous, and even more so that you use it as an excuse for rediculous changes like eliminating group mobs in overland zones.<BR>

[Dasein]

<HR> Sorry, but i find this laughable considering there's been no time, what so ever, put into fixing the UI bug which doesn't save configurations which has been present since release.  You wanna streamline the interface....how about making it so the player doesn't have to reconfigure it EVERY SINGLE TIME THEY LOG IN.  It's rediculous, and even more so that you use it as an excuse for rediculous changes like eliminating group mobs in overland zones. <HR> <BR> <DIV>How about you realize that there are different aspects of the interface, and fixing a bug that only impacts a few people is not the same as changing something like HO mechanics to make them better integrate with the way the game works. I've personally never had a problem with the UI not saving, nor have any of the people I play with regularly. While it does happen, it is not a bug that impacts everyone by any means. Now, does the existence of this bug mean they should not make other changes to the UI to improve gameplay for everyone? Or should they put all other UI development on hold until they fix this one bug?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've also not seen any use of UI changes to justify solo content. I do not see at all how you are drawing that connection from what Moorgard wrote. </DIV>

[Syrano]

Not sure I want to jump on this thread, but I do have to agree with others, the game is signficiantly less challenging now in the 1-50 range.  Now, "challenge" being defined as it is now easier for one person to advance.    The tremendous amount of solo content means groups are a thing of the past.  The motivation to group is very low, the rate of XP gain (once factoring in time to get group, get to a good group hunting spot etc) is nominal between the two.  The loot that drops in group zones isn't really worth the effort, especially seeing as leveling is easier now, so with banded gear, it's usefulness is short lived.  Besides, as it was in group zones, gear dropping off white mobs was often blue or worse, making it broker/vendor fodder %80 of the time anyway. With the addition of Splitpaw I agree, no one leaves splitpaw.  Why should they?  If they want to group, just keep doing solo instances until one shows up.   Solo'ing from 20-50 is utterly possible there.  Plus the nature of the design, until you complete 3 quests you can't easily get back, results in people just camping out there and logging back in there.  This has relegated other great zones, like Varsoons, Runneye, Rivervale, and more, to uselessness.  These are places I spent time in with a group leveling to 50, the content was hard, it wasn't always easy.  Does anyone even do Nek castle, one of the best single group adventures for mid 30's, anymore?  Splitpaw was great, it has incredibly good design, but it makes all other aspects of the world pale in comparison because it is so radically different in approach then the rest of the game.   It's "so" good, nothing else seems worth it.  This kind of thing happens to MMO's all the time (anyone in EQ1 still raid Naggy or Hate for example?)  Just, never expected it within 8 months of release <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Now I don't want the game to be "harder".  In fact, some aspect sof it, especially at the end game, are getting ridiculously challenging.  Not the encounters, but the ability to get your guild logistically ready for such encounters (equipment, resists, strategies, time to raid) is the real challenge.  Not the fights themselves.    I'm loving EQ2, as a 50th level I loved Splitpaws scaleable challenge (bloodlines was neat, but I felt like I missed so much because a lot of it was trivial).  However the "challenge" that's been lost is the challenge of having to do things as a team. No need now.  Sadly, in EQ2 as with many MMO's, solo'ing your way to 50 will just result in a big shock.  Suddenly it's 12-24 person events, you'll need a guild, you'll need resources and great gear.  You're just going to lose all the players you're trying to appeal to once they get to 50. <div></div>

[Skr]

I like most of the changes made, however there are a few I dont like. First off, I have to say the change to the patron system blows. I feel this could have been implemented in a better way. I personally dont feel that any small guild without the same dedication and play time as a big guild should ever see level 30. Level 30 should be a reward that only the guilds with the most dedicated players see. Im sure a lot of the more casual gamers will complain and gripe about this, but even when the guild level cap gets raised, you still wont see those casual guilds hitting max level before it gets raised again, in most cases anyway. The change to the patron system does in fact make it easy for any guild really, taking away the feeling of reward for those of us that put in the time to build a good guild and manage it properly. As of before the patch, getting to 30 was hard because it required good guild management and solid dedication from the team. Now, its really no different that the guild relied on 12 patrons to level them because now its still going to be the 12 people that grind the most that get patroned or switched, with the exception of all the other guildies that save their heritage ready to turn them in for a massive jump in guild level every week, which I find to be utterly stupid. If you want to help out your guild in leveling and you arent a patron, then guess what, you can. You dont have to be a patron to help other guildies do writs and heritage. Now its going to suck for those of us that worked so hard to get closer to 30. The feeling of being one of the few guilds on the server to hit 30 was well worth all the work and time being put into it. The reward for level 30 guild is little to none but the sense of achievement was definitely there in all its glory.  It showed a direct sense that any new people were going to be joining a guild with some solid dedication. The only good thing about this change that I can see is that a lot of people wont feel bound or stuck to these smaller, less successful guilds anymore. Now that they can disband without costing their guild an exp hit might actually make up for all this. <div></div>

[Alteri_1]

I had a different post ready to add to this thread, but the forum ate it, so I'll just post this. For Those that don't rcall the pre-release post from Smed, this is (getting to) how the game was intended to be:  A solo/small group friendly game that can be enjoyable even when you can only play for short sessions with an easy to get into interface that can be understood by people with little to no mmorgp experience.  I recently came back to EQII, and for those of you at or nearing 50, have you taken a look in the newbie zones lately?  <crickets>  Hung out on the IoR lately?  <crickets>  I was in the commonlands last night.  <Crickets>  If they hadn't down-teired some of those MoBs, there would be no way to kill them (while it is still meaningful to do so).  While I was surprised at some of the changes, if it hadn't been done I what would I have been able to accomplish?  More often then not, I was the only person in the whole zone.  Not instance, mind you, because there weren't more then one.  Even then, I didn't have free reign.  I still had to use my HOs.  I still ran to guards and I still died for my lack of insight and or support during some of those fights. Anyone that came in on the opening wave, and stayed may have gotten used to the game as released, but that's not to say the game as released was the game as intended.  And again, they still have to make the game accessable to those that are just starting out (or returning). In the mean time, I'm glad to be back.  Let's see what happens next... <div></div>

[Jenj]

<P>-------------------------<BR>the problem I see is that more content is coming-out (e.g. Splitpaw)<BR>-------------------------<BR><FONT color=#ff0000>New content is a problem? would you rather fight in the zones for 6 years? i wouldn't. Besides content is a fad. do you think as many people would be in splitpaw after the new expansion? i don't kills gnolls get boring after a few lvls. </FONT><BR>-------------------------</P> <P><FONT color=#339900>You took half my sentence :smileyhappy:  New content is great, but when the existing content becomes obsolete, there is an imbalance.</FONT></P><FONT color=#339900></FONT> <P><BR><BR>-------------------------<BR>Places like Runneyeye are virtual ghost towns and should have a "for sale" sign attached to them.<BR>-------------------------<FONT color=#ff0000><BR></FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>ever think the average level of the player based constantly goes up therefor RE/TS/ROV/ ect.. won't be uber crowded places. </FONT><BR>-------------------------</P> <P><FONT color=#339900>Sure, but when zones have 2-groups or less in them, average server level isnt the issue, but rather zone appeal and playability.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#339900></FONT> </P> <P>-Jenjer</P> <P><BR></P>

[Skr]

First off, all the group related stuff is so easy that its boring. I find fighting yellow con mobs at my level to be like killing grey level 20 mobs. They should implement aa points back into the game to bring back a need for grouping and group content for most of us that are 50. I dunno about everyone else but I dont group at all at 50 and I havent for many months. I think I grouped a few times for the new splitpaw expansion then it was boring 3 days later. I pretty much sit around all day doing nothing now until its time to raid. Even the so called hard group stuff like nek castle etc is way easy and way boring. There isnt even any good loot that drops from that zone as most of it is complete junk, unless you get lucky with a master chest or something. I mean who wants to wear gear with a required level of 49 or so thats got the stats of a level 30 piece of armor? The recent change in splitpaw where you can choose mob level isnt anything special. I dont notice any difference between the level 50 or the level 57 mobs in those zones. I want to go in to a zone at 50 with the sense that I could possibly die. I dunno what it was about eq1 but I think there is something really important they should take from it. I liked it much better when all the mobs were single and hard and had to be split. Now they come in groups, which are easy and it gives you that feel that you are just running out and pulling in 10 grey mobs to hack down really fast. I want to know that if I pull an add that its going to be a really challenging fight. They also need to implement some group related content for the best geared players. Have these be group zones with a week or daily lockout similar to raid zones, and depending on the lockout timer guarantee a master drop or or higher chance of one off the boss. They also need to implement more 2 and 3 group raid instances. One of the biggest issues is going to be with raising the level cap. I only hope they dont raise it every expansion and make it a constant level up and regear everyone thing. Its ok to do maybe once a year or 2, but instead of making all the old epic mobs worthless to fight at 60, keep level 50 the same and come out with harder mobs that drop better loot. This way you have to progressively take them down, gear up your guild, then have a shot at the harder epic mobs. This will keep all the old epic mobs fun and at least somewhat challenging at level 50 still. I really hope there is a lot more to do at 60 then there is at 50. I just have the feeling that wont be the case though. If level cap gets raised every expansion and were fed maybe 6-10 epic fights per expansion that were limited to every time then thats really going to suck. Instead of expanding the content that would keep it the same only with new stuff to do for a couple months. It almost feels like were being restricted to playing in certain areas. Like, here, well give you 5 little zones to play in, 5 small epic instances you can pop in and do in 15 mins, and when you gain 10 more levels you get to do it all over again. Oh and player housing? Could we please make this serve a greater purpose in the game? <div></div>

[Noir_4]

<p>a change i feel was for the worse is the shorter distance something will chase you before it stops. as newbies, my husband and i did the bootstrutter's quest in antonica. i remember how careful we were not to aggro the many bears and wolves out there, working our way carefully to each site in the quest. it was scary and exhilerating. if we got aggro, we could easily die from dots or the occasional hit before outdistancing whatever it was.</p><p>now, with my low level alts, i have no problem running through a zone filled with red or even ^^ mobs. i often have quite a train behind me, and feel no fear of having to go through places packed with mobs because they'll quickly lose interest. unless they're casters (and sometimes even that doesn't matter much), i don't worry at all. even harvesting isn't as dangerous as it used to be because i know i can just run from anything that jumps me and lose it before it can do serious damage. i think shortening the distance that mobs will give chase has lead to a lack of respect for the dangers of the overland zones, and makes the game much easier than it was before.</p>

[Hermex D'illusionai]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The goal isn't to make the game less challenging by any means. The goal is to make the game easier to get into and more enjoyable to stick around in, and part of that is actually increasing the challenge to make accomplishments more meaningful. I've been playing with the combat changes a lot lately, and I feel that they will bump up the challenge level of the game in a good way. As a bruiser, I really like them. While some of my attacks have changed, the biggest difference is in buffs. I've had a lot of fun figuring out which choices to make, and there are some very cool strategies for picking out which offensive and defensive buffs to use in a fight. <EM><FONT color=#ffff00>Having no casting time on most attacks changes the pace of combat a lot, and I like it</FONT>.</EM> While fighting solo encounters is just as doable for me, heroic mobs are definitely going to need a group to go after.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Does the above indicate that a lot or many of the melee combat arts will not have casting times but simple re-use timers only ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I ask because, as an Illusionist, I would dearly love to see our haste line of spells have a more suitable impact on melee damage output. I realize hasting currently does increase total damage of a group but the largess of the melee damage done by any given character is done through sepcial attacks, not the auto attack sequence. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have been silently wondering if some effort was being made towards either allowing hasting to reduce re-use timers by a small amount or whether more emphasis was going to be place on the auto-attack sequence for over-all damage output by a given melee character and the above sentence I found to be an interesting one.  </DIV>

[Cuz]

- Chat windows and tabs should save their settings and channel information more reliably. <DIV>- UI modders will be pleased to find that group dynamic data now works properly. Mod away!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is this what you wanted fatredfrog? If so it's in LU12.</DIV>

[Syndic]

<span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div> <blockquote>The goal isn't to make the game less challenging by any means. The goal is to make the game easier to get into and more enjoyable to stick around in, and part of that is actually increasing the challenge to make accomplishments more meaningful.</blockquote><hr></blockquote> OK the recent changes to Patrons for guilds, it was meaningful when a guild reached 30.  I don't think that will be the case in a few weeks time when level 30 guilds start appearing all over the place.  Maybe it is the type of challenge you maybe talking about but guilds and ecpecially the patrons thought it was a massive accomplishment.  Now yes it is just a case of mindnumbingly killing the same mobs over and over again, also maybe the odd diversion away on doing heritage.  I'm just sure there were ways of making it so that getting to 30 was something a guild could be proud of.   I know everytime I seen a member of the only guild on our server who was 30 I just thought to myself - They must really feel proud of themselves. I can understand the reason for the change having been in a guild that went from level 22 to 13 in a few short hours but it just seems now all too easy for a well populated guild to get to 30.  Where as a small family type guild (6-30) members will have just as hard a time as ever. I think that change has hurt the casual guild more and trivialised things for the large guilds.</span><div></div>

[Thelah]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV>Now all that said, there are changes you can point to and legitimately say that challenge was reduced. Changing a mob from heroic to solo certainly makes it a less challenging encounter, but there was a definite need for more solo and small group content in the world. Downtiering was far from the most elegant solution to that problem, but it was the most effective in terms of time and resources. This is another issue we plan to look at again and perhaps devise a more ideal solution for. Personally, I'd like to see heroic encounters that can be picked apart if you have the right abilities and sufficient skill. That's a cause I plan to champion, so wish me luck. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The goal isn't to make the game less challenging by any means. The goal is to make the game easier to get into and more enjoyable to stick around in, and part of that is actually increasing the challenge to make accomplishments more meaningful. I've been playing with the combat changes a lot lately, and I feel that they will bump up the challenge level of the game in a good way. As a bruiser, I really like them. While some of my attacks have changed, the biggest difference is in buffs. I've had a lot of fun figuring out which choices to make, and there are some very cool strategies for picking out which offensive and defensive buffs to use in a fight. Having no casting time on most attacks changes the pace of combat a lot, and I like it. While fighting solo encounters is just as doable for me, heroic mobs are definitely going to need a group to go after.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Easier to get into for who?  Would there ever be a cut off point where the game designers would just have to say, that's it, you are just too stupid to play this game?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I first started the game, running through Thundering Steppes requires care and attention.  Now it's a joke at the same level, set yourself on autorun until you get to the heroic giants.  I died 3 times doing that portion of the JBoots quest, I just did it with another character last night and it was a walk in the park.  So what if I need to run through a pack of red mobs?  They do pitiful damage and give up 5 seconds later.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You said the game needed more solo content, maybe, I wouldn't know since I don't see all the feedbacks.  But why add solo mobs (like hovering deathclaws in TS), and at the same time turn heroic ones to solo as well?  That just seemed like a kneejerk over reaction to appease a few solo whiners who should've signed up for WoW anyway.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is actually a serious game design problem, the people I know that have quit the game, they did it not because the game is too difficult to get into (and Everquest 2 was never hard to begin with), because they got bored with it.  Most people value things that took efforts to obtain over things that were just handed to them.  While more and more challenges are removed from the game, more players will get bored and leave.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope the combat revamp does what it advertises to do.</DIV>

[NiteFev]

The rift between hardcore and casual gamers is a problem endemic in MMOs - and from what I know of business theory the problem will only grow. I think Vashner (quoted below) has the right idea in promoting server classifications.I'm the millionth person to voice this I'm sure, but hardcore and casual gamers have disparate interests and needs - most of the forumites who post here are of the former category and need to keep this in mind when they discuss environmental changes. Casual gamers want simplicity, easy levelling, and arcade-style rewards. They don't want the 'thrill' of running away from difficult mobs, or putting hundreds of hours into crafting. They have as much right to an experience that suits them as the owner of two lvl 50/50 adventurer/artisan toons. They don't visit these forums to voice their opinions, but I'd guess that they make up 70% or so of players. Satisfying the remaining vociferous 30% needs to happen as well (for obvious reasons). In my opinion, the old EQ2 was just too challenging for casual players, and 70% is too large an audience for any business to ignore - even hypermegaglobalcorps like Sony. For their part, MMO's are going to have to accept the fact that they cannot be all things to all players. As Detroit auto manufacturers learned in the 1970s as cheap, fuel-efficient imports started eroding their market share, the only way to surive is to identify a target audience and satisfy it. That means more models, differing performance, options and so on. Hardcore servers provide a way of making that possible. Consider them as sports cars to an auto-maker: more attractive to the enthusiast and much more likely to get you killed if you drive one <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. I would propose the creation of a 'hardcore' server (Diablo 2 anyone?). Simply joining it could be a reward...perhaps a lvl 30 entrance requirement simply to create a new character (no movelogs allowed) You'd have to start fresh in a much more challenging environment. Only players who clearly had some degree of devotion to the game would bother. In fact, players could vote on just how difficult/challenging the initial environment would be! This is conjecture for the sake of argument but what if the H(ardcore)EQ2 server included:Losing a level if you died (vicious, but it's only conjecture, so bear with me)Restoring ^^ mobsChanging penalties for deathReducing or altering drops Restoring gathering to the old 'three chances and out' system.Adding 'vanity' titles that include first *race/subclass combination to reach lvl X*, or highest "death-to-kill ratio" or "most orcs killed" or "Zero deaths" or "highest adjusted intelligence"Hardcore players yearn for a sense of achievement born of struggle and a dedicated server could give it to them. Oy! Enough of my blather.THanks for your post Vashner! <blockquote><hr>Vashner wrote: <P>I think this is an interesting problem.</P> <P>EQ1 started it all hahah..</P> <P>But seriously some gamers like ez.. some like hard.. some like 1-2 hours some 10 hours + ignore crying kids and hungry wife.</P> <P> </P> <P>I think a good idea would be to break the servers down even more.</P> <P>Difficulty HARD would be existing server XP grind with maybe more harder heroics and stuff.</P> <P>Easy server would be double the XP ... or quadruple. this would be for casual customers that want to play eq2</P> <P>and enjoy content but not kill the same things over and over again for hours.. also this Easy server would have</P> <P>no XP penalty.</P> <P> </P> <P>Then you use free movelogs to get everyone where they want to be. Make both customers happy.</P> <P>Soloist and people that are busy but LOVE the eq franchise and have high performance pc's.</P> <P>If they are smiling they will pay just to have content access.</P> <P> </P> <P>People that LOVE it hard and challenging.. well just make a hard server and turn up the pain for them.</P> <P> </P> <P>How would like your Tai Food sir? 1 thru 10 in hotness.</P> <P> </P> <P>Cheers..</P> <P>(I like EZ btw because I am disabled and have 3 spinal diseases I get sick even trying to grind</P> <P>in EQ1 2 or SWG).</P> <P>EDIT: Ok 1 more thing .. the cost to execute this should not be too expensive.</P> <P>You code in the quadruple .. triple or double at a min xp boost. That should only be a few lines of code</P> <P>in patch. Couple hours work there.</P> <P>Then put back some heroics.. a weeks work there or so. Then the movelogs and meetings.</P> <P>Try 1 New EZ and 1 new SUPER CHALLENGE (hard) </P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Vashner on <span class=date_text>07-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:18 AM</span><hr></blockquote>

[Hyru]

The whole reason I came back to EQ 2 recently is because of all the so called "Un-Challenging Changes". Trust me it is not easy for me, maybe you because you have been playing so long. I left because of frustration with the combat system, and grey mobs being able to kick my rear, and lack of solo content. Now all these things have been looked at and addressed. I think you are in the minority sir, and if you want heavy raid content, massive complex interfaces...go back and play EQ I. <font size="5"><font face="Arial">EQ II is getting better EVERY DAY! Thank you Dev's !!! Signed, <font size="3">A Player who is happy to return to EQ II</font> </font></font>

[Silvo]

<DIV>The interface changes haven't made the game easier. They've made it easier to do things that were there to begin with. Sort of like trying to rebuild a carburetor with a hammer and a crescent wrench versus using the right tools. You might get the job done with either but the same job is easier with the proper tools (smooth UI)</DIV>

[Morov]

<DIV>Only hardcore players like challenges. I go to school and I study lots lots. I do not have time and the patience to attempt an encounter and to begin my studies [Removed for Content] off because of my XP debt and my -10% armor penalty, Hell no! But there are other things that im pretty [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] sure SoE can come up with. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What SoE really needs to work on is the amount of solo friendly content there is. As an assassin I can barely solo in dungeons an such that you guys put in for the rest of the subclasses. How fair is that? I seen Templars solo +3 lvl heroics in Zek and Enchanted Lands, Why can't i do that? Now sinse EQ2 is about to made easier dont take any xp debt away or anything like that, simply adjust the classes.. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Make the game fun by adding player made events like how you guys promised us in the start of the game. I would like to run a horse racing competition one day.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- I would LOVE to raise the draggy I got running around my apartment so he can actually solo with me as a companion. The more we solo the more the dragon XP's and levels...oh yeah! give them racial and class traits too so ever or so level they can earn new skills like Dragon Breath where they can cast at random. Sounds good right?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- I would like to *litterally* customize the inside of my house. Like remove a wall or something or just completely change the interior</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- I would one day love to set up a raid with my guild to capture Antonia Bayle and keep her captive in Freeport till some courageous guild comes to FP to her rescue. Make it one huge PVP warzone with no xp debt or armor debt <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> now THAT sounds like fun! Maybe we could capture Orc Leaders and have them raid our home town at complete random to rescue their leader??? Think about it SoE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- I would like to visit the Barber in Freeport so I can give my character a haircut once in a while <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I get sick of people looking like me! " Everquest2 will feature a fully character customization unlike any MMO ever!" ( yeah right )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-  More weather effects </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Natural Disasters ( Earthquakes, Hurricanes, Tornados, Firestorms in Lavastorm or something? that actually deals DMG over time to players who dont run for their lives )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- I would like to give my horse a name <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- I would like to get quests DIRECTLY from Lucan or Antonia themselves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- We should be able to attack guards of the opposing factions.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Amor Dye</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Another Kerafyrm or a mob that runs to random zones on a complete rampage. </DIV> <DIV>" Guard of Qeynos shouts " All to arms we had a jail break! Notorious Killer [Serial Killer] Is on the loose! The Queen will reward whoever brings him back dead or alive " omg that would be soooo cool</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>whatever you guys get the idea... kkthx </DIV>

[p1ut0nium]

<DIV>Let's face it.  EQ 2 IS very easy.  Period.  Let me qualify that statement.  EQ2 IS very easy compared to EQ1.  Fact is.  The game has been "dumbed down" for greater sales.  There is no argument here.  As a long time EQ1 player moved to EQ2 by the lure of amazing graphics...I am sad that the game has been made so much less challenging.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, for the casual player, less challenging than EQ1 = good.  But for those of us who are hardcore RPGers, who have put countless years into D&D characters (it took literaly years to get my D&D characters up to say oh lvl 50) and countless hours camping mobs and discovering the wonderfully rich world of EQ1...EQ2 is a major let down in challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now I know the game is relatively new and therefor the world is relatively small.  But come on...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My character is lvl 39.  I have played him for a total of 14 days (actual play time).  14 Days to hit lvl 39.  Let's assume I play 12 hours a week (4  hours a day - 3 days a week).  That means I hit lvl 39 in 6 months playing 12 hours a week.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In D&D, it would have taken me 2 years to hit lvl 39 playing at that rate.  In 6 months, I'm nearly maxed out in lvl.   Give me another month or two and I'll be maxed.  After that...my only choice is to start a new toon and go through the exact same content or raid until I get bored.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quests - in EQ1, quests were hard to find and took some actual (god forbid) READING.  Something people seem lax to do in the great internet age (unless they're readin forums <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In EQ2  all you need to do is run around double clicking every NPC you see and quickly clicking through the conversation until you get a quest pop up window. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I remember the good old days of Black Burrow.  Standing around fighting and OMG here comes a gnoll train from hell!  Run! Run for your life!  So much excitement.  Locked encounters changed that.  Boring.  Yes yes yes!  I know why they did locked encounters.  And yes yes yes...I know some of you will rant that trains suck.  But hey...do you want to play a game where bad things can happen and you have to be on your toes?  Or do you want to play a game where all you do is place little non-threatening jewels on the screen to create a pattern!?  EQ2 is about adventure and excitement.  Taking away the danger kills the adventure and excitement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then theres the wonderful art of mob pulling.  God I loved being a thief in EQ1...cuz I could bow pull a mob with some friggen skill in a room full of mobs and pull just that mob!  People in my group loved me for it.  Now mobs are so easy to pull theres barely any skill invovled.  Oh look...these mobs are all grouped so they will all come regardless...just shoot one and get it over with.  Lame.  Sony killed a great fun aspect of the game when they changed the way pulling could be done for the sake of appeasing the mass market who would rather not use skill, but just pull a bunch of mobs and mash buttons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could go on and on.  Trust me.  EQ2 has been made much easier.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't get me wrong.  I still like the game and won't be going to any other MMO (at present).  But I for one cast my vote that things are just too darn easy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes...I do have a life:  a great career making great money, a great wife, and a wonderful new baby boy.  I'm an artist & designer and draw, read, and do many other things while still managing to find time to play EQ2 on a regular basis.  So no one can say I play too much and dont have a life and that's why I find the game so easy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[xOnaton1]

I would have to say that in general EQ2 is too easy, BUT-- it's only easy if you choose to make it easy. I know what fights I can beat easily and what ones will be tough. A green^^ 4 levels below me is an easy fight but a green^^ 3 levels below me can be a real challenge. If there are casters in the group it can be a tough fight. If there is one ^ boss guy in the group I can use a potion maybe,  fear him and tackle the others, then yell to break the encounter, run away to heal and come back to fight the boss. There can be quite a bit of strategy involved. When I first made it over to Antonica in my low 20s I was a bit let down that nearly everything was grey to me. Since then I've had combat XP turned off always (except when someone has to mentor me in a group.) Now it takes me around 40 quests or so to gain one level and I'm able to visit more zones before they go grey. New zones always have a bunch of soloable quests and I have to hunt down a group to even attempt the others. I'm just glad that I can have 75 active quests now! Maybe there should be a way to turn off vitatily for those that want to level at a speed somewhere in between. For me the journey, quests, and exploration is the most fun part of the game so I'm in no hurry to get to 50 and run out of new places to explore. Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLere server <div></div>

[Tockl]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Morovis wrote:<BR> <DIV>Only hardcore players like challenges.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>:smileyvery-happy:<BR></DIV>

[Daevin]

<DIV>I have to agree.  I have played Everquest 2 since its launch and have found the game has become to easy.  I actually felt the game was too easy the first two months I played it because I was able to take my character to 50 in that time.  My idea would be for SOE to make specific servers geared towards customers who want a challenge.  I suggest a new server to be created that has the same settings the game had during the first few months it came out.  And if you have a character on a different server you have the option to transfer him/her there but once there you can't transfer them out.  If they can create the Player Exchange server then I don't see why they couldn't make a "challenging" server.   </DIV>

[Sullee808]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <BR> <DIV>Now all that said, there are changes you can point to and legitimately say that challenge was reduced. Changing a mob from heroic to solo certainly makes it a less challenging encounter, but there was a definite need for more solo and small group content in the world. Downtiering was far from the most elegant solution to that problem, but it was the most effective in terms of time and resources. This is another issue we plan to look at again and perhaps devise a more ideal solution for. Personally, I'd like to see heroic encounters that can be picked apart if you have the right abilities and sufficient skill. That's a cause I plan to champion, so wish me luck. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The goal isn't to make the game less challenging by any means. The goal is to make the game easier to get into and more enjoyable to stick around in, and part of that is actually increasing the challenge to make accomplishments more meaningful. I've been playing with the combat changes a lot lately, and I feel that they will bump up the challenge level of the game in a good way. As a bruiser, I really like them. While some of my attacks have changed, the biggest difference is in buffs. I've had a lot of fun figuring out which choices to make, and there are some very cool strategies for picking out which offensive and defensive buffs to use in a fight. Having no casting time on most attacks changes the pace of combat a lot, and I like it. While fighting solo encounters is just as doable for me, heroic mobs are definitely going to need a group to go after.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The challenge of EverQuest II is going to be in its gameplay, not in complex systems or tricky interfaces. "Accessible" and "easy" do not mean the same thing.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>You've yet to deliver on challenging gameplay.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For one, you think you can just create challenging content for a small subset of players and think that is going to fit the bill.  You continually make niche content and then slap a one-size-fits-all on it and expect the players not to notice.  Some examples might be a challenging x4 raid encounter which ya know.. is only good for those that raid.  Or splitpaw solo content which varies from a meh challenge to ridiculously hard (with same rewards btw) because of grossly out of balance classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For another, you can't create quality by taking shortcuts.  Making group mobs solo did not in the least reduce the challenge as there isn't any challenge in shoddily designed outdoor zones.  I say there is no challenge because outdoors you can see a wanderer a mile away and you can run from anything and get away with little risk of aggroing more mobs.  I say shoddily designed because with few exceptions it's like you created a map and sprinkled mobs all over it.  The encounters aren't designed at all.  My personal opinion is that those who want the outdoor group mobs back only want their gravy train of xp cows back.  You've gotten the wrong feedback if you think pickup groups 1 - 50 in outdoor zones is challenging gameplay.</DIV>

[Hyru]

To all you peeps who are saying the game is too easy, you have been playing 2 long. I just came back after leaving cause of the outrageous forced grouping and grey mobs who could own you without a sweat. You guys want EQ I it seems, well go back to EQ I. I played that game for years and got so tierd of the grind. Quests were fun at low levels (like they are now period in EQ II all levels), and yes grouping was fun but in the end players wanted more and more challenge, and guess what ..in came the Uber guilds, and now if a player wanted to get anywhere in the game, or see cool content he had to spend hours upon hours on the grind. he was forced to camp zones to construct some silly key, and then had to wait for his whole guild to do the same. THEN When it came time to go to Kool_uberzone_01, you hoped you had 10 clerics, 8 warrior decked out, Enchanters for CC, druids and shamans for buffs and spam heals, and necros to mana feed the clerics. Rinse and repeat. Oh and do not forget if your raid wiped after 2 hours of getting to your objective, the 1 hour or more get to your corpse and rez routine. Wasted downtime. Boring. After my guild cleared out POP I was done.....with EQ I, and that is exactly what some of you are working towards here suggesting this to SOE. STOP IT NOW PEOPLE Sheesh, people are finally coming back to the game and liking what they see, and its players like you who did the so called "Hard Core" portions of EQ II, that feel it is un-fair for people below your rank to have what should have been implemented on game opening. The game is challenging, alot more than that level in a week game known as WOW. So SHUT IT before SOE hears your whines and screws up what is turning out to be a good thing with every patch the beginning of the year when the servers had a mass exodus of people. Hyrut

[jarlaxle8]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P> <HR> <P></P> <P>Hyrut1 wrote:<BR></P> <P>... (see above post)</P> <P><BR>So SHUT IT before SOE hears your whines and screws up what is turning out to be a good thing with every patch the beginning of the year when the servers had a mass exodus of people.<BR><BR><BR>Hyrut<BR><BR><BR></P> <P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/AGREE!</P> <P>i played EQ1 5 years ago and liked it then but stopped due to no time. but at that time i always found a group, so it may be that just that was better then. this year i started new due to a RL friend. i played 3 months and got [Removed for Content] off because it was so dam hardcore grouping/guilding and boring and unrewarding if you didn't find a group, not to mention downtimes when solo without KEI (or even in group) - and because the game had changed and the zones where empty, i saw how it was solo: hell. and quests where crap too, because they where mostly hardcore as well. sometimes i had no idea where to go, so i looked on the web, and that kills the fun. and the system was user unfriendly like hell. those people who think that was good kind of remind me of the 'command line input is cool' people.</P> <P>i want challenge, but REALLY hope it never goes back to the EQ1 days. and i like grouping, but i want to do something if i don't find a group. and who says i should always be in a group? i want to decide how i play, sometimes solo, sometimes grouped. and no, i don't want to sign up for WoW. why don't you hardcore gamers go to EQ1?</P></DIV>

[Silvo]

<DIV>"Then theres the wonderful art of mob pulling.  God I loved being a thief in EQ1...cuz I could bow pull a mob with some friggen skill in a room full of mobs and pull just that mob!  People in my group loved me for it.  Now mobs are so easy to pull theres barely any skill invovled.  Oh look...these mobs are all grouped so they will all come regardless...just shoot one and get it over with.  Lame.  Sony killed a great fun aspect of the game when they changed the way pulling could be done for the sake of appeasing the mass market who would rather not use skill, but just pull a bunch of mobs and mash buttons."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've got to agree with this one. </DIV>

[Fogboundturt]

<DIV>"Then theres the wonderful art of mob pulling.  God I loved being a thief in EQ1...cuz I could bow pull a mob with some friggen skill in a room full of mobs and pull just that mob!  People in my group loved me for it.  Now mobs are so easy to pull theres barely any skill invovled.  Oh look...these mobs are all grouped so they will all come regardless...just shoot one and get it over with.  Lame.  Sony killed a great fun aspect of the game when they changed the way pulling could be done for the sake of appeasing the mass market who would rather not use skill, but just pull a bunch of mobs and mash buttons."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>Two thumb ups on this quote. Even Wow has risk with pulling.  Come SOE, wake up and make the changes to encouters.</DIV>

[Sunrayn]

<P>I find it incredibly humorous that you who are complaining about how easy eq2 is, bought a game that was advertised as NOT being eq1 and was *designed* for the casual player.</P> <P>Do you really think SOE will turn eq2 into eq1 just so you can feel you didnt make a mistake in moving from eq1 to eq2?</P>

[Tockl]

<P>Regardless what you <EM>want </EM>to believe, this is NOT a casual player vs harcore player issue.  </P> <P>I am a casual player. </P> <P>The game is too easy.  Period.</P>

[Hyru]

<div></div><div></div><div></div> I like the idea of being able to solo pull a mob out of a crowd .....vs seeing all these frickin linked mobs. That was not the point I was trying to make here. It is simple .....EQ 2 = headed in right direction as of now. It caters to the casual/solo gamer and the hardcore groups and raid guilds. If you want forced grouping to obtain a goal and/or mass raiding to be something that becomes your day end and day out chore at high levels then the solution is simple! <font face="Arial"><font color="#ff0000"><font size="6">GO BACK TO PLAYING EQ I <font color="#ffffff"><font size="4">Soe will still make money either way.</font></font> </font></font></font> A friend that I played with in EQ I since the start (before expansions came) made a simple tell to me as I said goodbye to my guild after cleaning out POP. His statement went like this: <font size="4"><font face="Courier New">"Eq is a blast until you reach level 20, then it becomes a chore" <font face="Arial">I really hope that the EQ II dev team notices this thread, as it is a subject that can make or break em...and they have put alot of hard work into MAKING this game happen...and it is .......happening as of right now. Just watch as your user base grows again, if you keep up the trend you started in content patches at the beginning of the year, up until now. <font size="6">Hyrut</font> </font></font></font><p><span class="time_text"> PS - Maybe some login survey's like you did in EQ I might be a good start instead of hearing from the minority of people who actually use these forums. </span></p><p>Message Edited by Hyrut1 on <span class=date_text>07-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:41 PM</span>

[Thelah]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR> <P>I find it incredibly humorous that you who are complaining about how easy eq2 is, bought a game that was advertised as NOT being eq1 and was *designed* for the casual player.</P> <P>Do you really think SOE will turn eq2 into eq1 just so you can feel you didnt make a mistake in moving from eq1 to eq2?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wrong.  There is a difference between casual and braindead.  I find it funny that some people seem to think that the only way to make a game challenging and fun is to turn it into EQLive.

[Tockl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thelahun wrote:<BR><BR>There is a difference between casual and braindead.  <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Best quote this thread.</DIV>

[Ashlian]

<P>People in this thread are not, in the main, advocating requiring the kind of commitment that EQLive required. I play some pretty serious hours, but I don't do the things many "hardcore" players do. I don't raid, I solo a lot, etc. But there is no reason that they can't have some happy medium between removing all the group mobs in a large area and having so many group mobs you can't go anywhere to solo. The easiest and most convenient fix for the people who like access to more than one form of content is to just instance some of the zones with adjusted content. A group EL and a solo EL, a group TS and a solo TS. They did this, in fact, on at least one live server when they were testing the downtiering to begin with. It doesn't have to be ONLY solo content or ONLY you must group to do it content.</P> <P>I'm usually on the side of casual versus raid players, simply because I also do not wish to see content require adjustment to accomodate the few who go through it far faster than was planned. The sheer knee jerk "challenging is for uber_l447dude001" reaction to the comment that the game HAS become a lot easier made me a little hesitant to identify myself with the casual players who posted here. If anything, the content most people miss is the content that was appropriate for a small group in EL or Zek....we shouldn't have to go halfway into a zone or fight into a dungeon to find group content.</P> <P>If someone besides you gets something, that doesn't have to mean you're screwed. I'm not going to go all Pollyanna and say SOE always does it right....but they definitely have the capability to adjust the zones more appropriately than they are now.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 43 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P>

[thark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jindrisek wrote:<BR> <DIV>It seems that since EQ2 was released, every update has some changed some element in the game that takes away from the challenege. The penalties for death when EQ2 was released were nothing compared to other MMO's (including EQ1). Then experience debt was lowered, making the penalties for death even less. Then they made it so that you don't even have to click on your shard. Then they made it so that you can see your group mates shards. That, as well as all the other changes, may have been good news for plat farmers who run multiple accounts at once and die alot, but each change was bad news for me and many other people who want a challenge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>H.O.'s were changed at some point, making it so that they cant be broken by using the wrong ability. That was a real let down for me. It made them less challenging. I wish SOE had not made that change to them, but instead made H.O.'s more effective and worth the challenge. </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>If your premise is that streamlining the interface and making content more accessible makes the game less challenging, I have to disagree. Granted, for some players the act of mastering a game interface that seems complicated to others is part of the fun, but that's just not the direction we wanted to go. One of our design goals was to make the interface as fluid and easy-to-use as possible, and not have it get in the way of gameplay. While I'm sure that there will be other games that will require you to master a complex user interface, we're not going to be one of them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Allowing shards to be retrieved via proximity was more about reducing CS petitions than it was about changing gameplay. It was the single biggest drain on GM time, and now shard retrieval issues have dwindled to almost nothing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Group experience debt seems trivial to many, and a lot of players (including myself) actually like the way it works. Yet no matter how minor the debt may be, the system itself remains one of the most-cited reasons for players leaving the game. That's why it's a topic we discuss internally quite a bit and will likely revisit in the near future.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Some may have liked the way HOs worked before, and felt rewarded when they pulled them off. That's understandable, because they required a lot of coordination to get right. But again, that's a matter of the interface getting in the way, not heroic opportunities being challenging in and of themselves. The simple fact is that the interface caused HOs to hardly ever be used in groups. Since the best HOs are group based, that's hardly an ideal situation. The worst thing was that people playing their classes the right way were causing HOs to fail. That doesn't seem like good gameplay to me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now all that said, there are changes you can point to and legitimately say that challenge was reduced. Changing a mob from heroic to solo certainly makes it a less challenging encounter, but there was a definite need for more solo and small group content in the world. Downtiering was far from the most elegant solution to that problem, but it was the most effective in terms of time and resources. This is another issue we plan to look at again and perhaps devise a more ideal solution for. Personally, I'd like to see heroic encounters that can be picked apart if you have the right abilities and sufficient skill. That's a cause I plan to champion, so wish me luck. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The goal isn't to make the game less challenging by any means. The goal is to make the game easier to get into and more enjoyable to stick around in, and part of that is actually increasing the challenge to make accomplishments more meaningful. I've been playing with the combat changes a lot lately, and I feel that they will bump up the challenge level of the game in a good way. As a bruiser, I really like them. While some of my attacks have changed, the biggest difference is in buffs. I've had a lot of fun figuring out which choices to make, and there are some very cool strategies for picking out which offensive and defensive buffs to use in a fight. Having no casting time on most attacks changes the pace of combat a lot, and I like it. While fighting solo encounters is just as doable for me, heroic mobs are definitely going to need a group to go after.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The challenge of EverQuest II is going to be in its gameplay, not in complex systems or tricky interfaces. "Accessible" and "easy" do not mean the same thing.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well..Im not sure if you are completly honest here or not Moorgard but ..Everquest2 is no longer as challanging now as it was when it started, it has all the symptoms in the game as a well known other game..and that is..</P> <P>People starting to "Not know how to group" If you eventually get one. And this is ofcource worse in that other game but the symtoms of making  more solo friendly game has made it marks on it..</P> <P>The change with the HO system, well the original system was somewhat flawed, but changing it so there is a 100% succes on easy HO and making a system where no one has to think just look and push a flashing icons doesn't hold..In that other system you had to pay attention and talk and coordinate the team for succes, in this system you basically doesnt have to coordinate anything at all, its more like a kids version of that former one..To be honest it would have been better to take the old HO out of the game until you had a better system in the works..</P> <P>As someone mentioned there has to be some sort of middle ground on this, and that isnt the case with todays game..</P> <P> </P> <P>/Rigmor </P> <P> <BR></P>

[Kutark]

<DIV>If you really ask me, i honestly believe the reason the game feels/is like this is due to what i consider the "politicaly correct"izing of the game (yes that is a technical term).  Lets think about it, you have basically 6 types in each 4 categories, and all of them do essentially the same thing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You don't really look for specific classes when you make groups, you just grab a healer, tank, and dps.  The idea was to correct the problem in EQ1 that you had to have a cleric and cleric only, then either an sk/pal/war, enchanter, and then assorted DPS.  And although it has helped a little bit, there just isn't enough class differentiation that you can put groups together with skills that complement each other well.  Enchanter types are nice, but not really that neccesary in this game, most of the tank classes have very similar spells with a few exceptions here and there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Before in EQ1, i used to do this LDON run with me (65pal), my ench friend, a wizard, necro and a magician.  When we could get it.  Because of the abilities of mana regen between the ench, necro spitting mana at the wizzy, mage summoning the mana thingies (i cant remember what they're called, its been 2 years for craps sake) and me holding taunt like there is no other, we were like a whirlwind of death and fury.  But on the flipside, there were other combinations you could put up, and it was all situational.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everything just kind of seems mashed together in this game, and although i am still enjoying the hell out of it, it certainly isn't anywhere near as good a game as the first was in its prime.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another thing im gonna complain about, items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, every item has almost identical stats, based on your level, assuming the same slot.  Anyone else getting serious DAOC vibes?  I noticed that a lot of the equip dropping in splitpaw is not doing that, which is commendable.  In all honesty i think that is what gave EQ1 its shine, it was those uber items, it was that total ability to set up your char to gain whatever stat/s you wanted.</DIV>

[Garibay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kutark wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, every item has almost identical stats, based on your level, assuming the same slot.  Anyone else getting serious DAOC vibes?  I noticed that a lot of the equip dropping in splitpaw is not doing that, which is commendable.  In all honesty i think that is what gave EQ1 its shine, it was those uber items, it was that total ability to set up your char to gain whatever stat/s you wanted.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I have to agree. Gear played a big factor in improving and personalizing your character in EQ1. Honestly looking at some of the gear that high-end guilds obtain from Epic mobs, just doesn't seem to differ enough from gear that can be bought from a broker.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also agree that the uniqueness each class had in the form of abilities/skills is absent thus far. Not asking for another EQ1 cleric scenario by all means. Just that a skill/abilty or 2 be unique to each class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Few things that would be great and I don't see really affecting gameplay are:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ability to Dye Armor, (Be nice to have a matching set of armor and not sacrifice stats)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ability to change Character slightly in Appearance, (Nice new haircut, piercing, or tatoo couldn't hurt)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Love to see some GM events like the ones in EQ1, (The random and holiday specific events were always fun)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[TheyLi]

<P>Those of you claiming the game is too easy.. I bet you all have something in common. You probably play what are viewed as the overpowered classes, i.e. fighters that can buff their defense up to a point where nothing is challenging, or maybe you're a warlock who can solo anything at the moment.. or maybe you're just a high level in an 'uber guild' and have already "won" the game. The point you need to understand is there are other people playing this game and you do not speak for everyone when you think the game should be made more difficult. The game is not that easy when you're not rich, when you're not in a guild, when you don't play 8+ hours a day, etc. People playing the underpowered classes, people who don't have time to wait hours to form groups to level, people who play for fun instead of for sado-masochism, new players who don't have a bankroll of plat to twink a low lvl char, etc. would all suffer from what is being proposed here.</P> <P> Taking away solo content or making the game an even longer & harder grind is not going to add anything beneficial to the game in the long run, because for a MMO to survive it has to appeal to & bring in new players. If I wasn't already playing this game and came to these boards looking for advice, and saw threads like this with already-established level 50's demanding the game be made harder, that would make me think twice about whether I really want to start the game. The simple fact is that if they turn this into EQ1 there would be a large exodus of current players, and it would turn off a lot of potential new players. How do I know this? Well, I only played EQ1 for a month or so and could not stand it, if they make this game just as unfriendly to new/casual players i'll head back to World of Warcraft or some other game in the blink of an eye & never look back, and so would many others. Bottom line: if your idea of fun is to relegate the game to a private playground for the hardcore/elite players, thereby eliminating all casual, low level & potential new players, then you have much bigger problems than a game being too easy in your eyes, and perhaps it's actually you that shouldn't be playing a MMO.</P>

[Tockl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TheyLive wrote:<BR> <P>Those of you claiming the game is too easy.. I bet you all have something in common. You probably play what are viewed as the overpowered classes, i.e. fighters that can buff their defense up to a point where nothing is challenging, or maybe you're a warlock who can solo anything at the moment.. or maybe you're just a high level in an 'uber guild' and have already "won" the game. The point you need to understand is there are other people playing this game and you do not speak for everyone when you think the game should be made more difficult. The game is not that easy when you're not rich, when you're not in a guild, when you don't play 8+ hours a day, etc. People playing the underpowered classes, people who don't have time to wait hours to form groups to level, people who play for fun instead of for sado-masochism, new players who don't have a bankroll of plat to twink a low lvl char, etc. would all suffer from what is being proposed here.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Except of course for those of us who are ... Not.<BR>

[p1ut0nium]

<DIV>This is one of those "to all the people saying x" posts...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To all the people saying "To all the people saying EQ2 is too easy...."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please stop assuming we are all uber guild peeps with twinked characters and overpowered classes who have no life blah blah blah...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You aren't contributing anything to the discussion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Take me for instance...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have 1 main character.  A lvl 40 shadow knight.  He is my first and only high level guy in EQ2 - no twinking.  Overpowered?  Hardly.  I can barely solo lvl 35 heroic mobs in groups.  Uber guild?  If you call United by Fate uber...a guild with 50 players (10 of which are on regularly and those 10 being in the 40-49 lvl range).  We don't raid cuz we don't have enough peeps.  I have a full time career, a wife and baby son.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So stop making these really offbase stupid comments.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The game is too easy.  Trust me.  Does that mean I'm attacking you solo or casual gamers out there?  No.  I encourage more solo content from Sony.  MMO does not mean group only in my opinion.  MMO means playing in a persistent world with a large number of live players, not grouping.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Making the game more challening does not mean making it so you cant solo.  You peeps need to stop thinking we're saying to cut solo content, cuz that's NOT the case.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We just don't want it to be like WoW where you can hit lvl 50 in a month.  It's pretty darn close already.</DIV>

[Hyru]

<span><blockquote><hr>p1ut0nium wrote:<div>This is one of those "to all the people saying x" posts...</div> <div> </div> <div>To all the people saying "To all the people saying EQ2 is too easy...."</div> <div> </div> <div>Please stop assuming we are all uber guild peeps with twinked characters and overpowered classes who have no life blah blah blah...</div> <div> </div> <div>You aren't contributing anything to the discussion.</div> <div> </div> <div>Take me for instance...</div> <div> </div> <div>I have 1 main character.  A lvl 40 shadow knight.  He is my first and only high level guy in EQ2 - no twinking.  Overpowered?  Hardly.  I can barely solo lvl 35 heroic mobs in groups.  Uber guild?  If you call United by Fate uber...a guild with 50 players (10 of which are on regularly and those 10 being in the 40-49 lvl range).  We don't raid cuz we don't have enough peeps.  I have a full time career, a wife and baby son.</div> <div> </div> <div>So stop making these really offbase stupid comments.</div> <div> </div> <div>The game is too easy.  Trust me.  Does that mean I'm attacking you solo or casual gamers out there?  No.  I encourage more solo content from Sony.  MMO does not mean group only in my opinion.  MMO means playing in a persistent world with a large number of live players, not grouping.</div> <div> </div> <div>Making the game more challening does not mean making it so you cant solo.  You peeps need to stop thinking we're saying to cut solo content, cuz that's NOT the case.</div> <div> </div> <div>We just don't want it to be like WoW where you can hit lvl 50 in a month.  It's pretty darn close already.</div><hr></blockquote> Bull!!! I just came from WOW, and have been playing EQ2 pretty aggressive as a NEW player for some time now. Trust me the leveling, and quests are by far much more challenging here. This is what players coming back to the game will want to see also. Pffft. Seriously go back to EQ I, thats what you want EQ 2 to be anyhow...just with better graphics. Hyrut</span><div></div>

[p1ut0nium]

<P>Can I ask you something?</P> <P>What do you have against those of us who wish "Everquest" 2 were more like "Everquest" 1?  Challenging.</P>

[p1ut0nium]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <SPAN><BR>Bull!!! I just came from WOW, and have been playing EQ2 pretty aggressive as a NEW player for some time now. Trust me the leveling, and quests are by far much more challenging here. This is what players coming back to the game will want to see also.<BR><BR>Pffft. Seriously go back to EQ I, thats what you want EQ 2 to be anyhow...just with better graphics.<BR><BR><BR>Hyrut<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>By the way...</P> <P>Kill 20 carrion hounds</P> <P>Gather 20 Feyberries</P> <P>Kill 20 fear feeders</P> <P>Gather 20 Raw Honey</P> <P>Kill 20 Vallon Grunts</P> <P>Gather 20 Crayfish</P> <P> </P> <P>Challenging Quests?  70% of all quests are like this.  Challenging?  Maybe if you are 10 levels too low to be in that area.  </P> <P>Hell...the first 10 levels can be achieved in a few hours.  </P> <P>The next 10 in a few weeks.</P> <P>Even at a conservative pace, my friend Sasa made lvl 21 in a few months (real time, not actual play time).  And he's not a hardcore player.<BR></P>

[Crow]

<DIV>Eq2 was never advertized as EQ1 with better graphics, if they did that wouldn't it be a disaster??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I came from playing EQ1 for 5 1/2 years. I mainly got tired with Eq1 since at super high levels it became more of a fustration then it did fun.. Eq2 was a nice change of pace for me since I could do nornally what I wanted to and with in a reasonable ammount of time get what I wanted...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now in Eq1 lets see... What do I remember that was "Fun"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Playing and Iksar necro to level 70 from kunark era I had these "Wonderfuly experiences"</DIV> <DIV>NFP used to be the bazaar, it was real fun sneaking on the boats then through the Sewer to get there with a load of Plat on you to buy something..</DIV> <DIV>Experience loss on Death was also fun I wish we could have that in EQ2..</DIV> <DIV>I loved the "holy trinity" too made getting groups/raids easy, not to mention high level grouping depended on one class</DIV> <DIV>Dying to Trivial Mobs on way to a raid was real fun, even if they are 15levels lower then me but hit like a train..</DIV> <DIV>Spending 21hrs camping Coirnav only to have him stolen by another guild WONDERFUL!</DIV> <DIV>Spending 1hr or more organizing a raid only to have the whole thing fail because of one persons mistake/lag/ld/etc..</DIV> <DIV>Planer Flagging and Back flagging were great...</DIV> <DIV>So many class revamps that my character went from Great to Not so great to worthless</DIV> <DIV>I really miss people telling me "twitch" all the time.</DIV> <DIV>I also wished there were more mobs that DTed..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could go on and on.. Most peoples defence is most of these things are fixed but I say to you they took forever to get fixed.. I challenge anyone to say that these things made the game more fun for them... EQ2 to me is tens times more fun then EQ1 ever was.. I'm also tired of people saying "just because I walked to school in hip deep snow up hill both ways so should everyone else"</DIV>

[ChrisRay]

<DIV>I wonder when people talk about EQ 2 challenge. I wonder what classes they play. Personally I think you guys may be singing a different tune when  the combat revamp comes. So classes are significantly easier to play than others difficulty wise. All you people crying for more challenge may be whimpering after the combat revamp.</DIV>

[Kutark]

<DIV>Challenge, i absolutely loved having NFP as the bazaar.  Some of the most fun i had was sitting in NFP, buying items low, selling high, making trades of one item for multiple items that would ultimately sell for more, etc.  It made the buying/selling process dynamic.  You didn't have this endless sea of items on the bazaar.  An item was only really worth what you were willing to sell it for at that exact moment in time.  Regardless, moving on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You said your argument is that they took a long time to fix?  If the game was so [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ed up then why did you play it to 70 for 5.5 years and apparently raid on a regular basis?  Are you a masochist?  Don't be a hypocrite.  Every game has it annoying quirks, and they don't make the whole game crap.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your blaming game mechanics for some person screwing up your raid?  Oh thats right, doom 2 caused the columbine shootings too...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You also mentioned the popular "holy trinity", tell me how its changed in this game?  You still have the EXACT same problem, only its now a little more complicated, rather than just a cleric, you have to find one of the "healer" types.  The funny thing is the problem with EQ1 wasn't the class, it was the amount of people which chose to play that class, and guess what, that hasn't really changed.  I imagine there are a few more people over all that are playing healing classes, but it certainly hasn't fixes the problem.  It is still a huge pain in the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] to find a healer on any busy day.</DIV>

[Hyru]

EQ 1 in the end, and today is still a number crunch at the end game. You must be part of a guild, and invest tons of time into raiding, and make sure you kiss all the clerics rear ends so you can have enough every day to do a raid, oh do I need to start breaking out the calculator on what encounters need what class type? Shall we talk about guilds and point systems that are pretty regular these days, because in order to do raids, people must be online. What better way to force someone to login if they do not want to than to threaten them with the fact they won't have a chance at getting any good gear drops? Then you have the people who stuck with EQ I and could not be part of the Uber guild system. When they looked at someone decked out in raid gear vs the stuff they busted thier butts on in 6 man groups it made them feel inferior. I know alot of people who quit the game because of 1 of 2 things. A) It no longer became a casual players type game B) Endgame options were not something they had the time for. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now maybe the original poster of this thread, and I are debating two different things. However myself and alot of people who came back to this game are happy with what they see and look forward to more of this sort of stuff. Just last night a friend and I did our first run in the Splitpaw Saga. I believe the zone was called "Into the Darkness" or something like that. The two of us had a frickin blast stacking up crates, and figuring out how to get to the exploding barrel, and then leap frogging boxes back to the other side. This to me was a challenge? I had fun. I bet 60% of the people who did that zone just ran in to get the key and ran out. We stuck around and looked for other neat things they added, and found them. Now the fact that you have locked encounters does suck. I sort of miss the days of trains, and being able to assist someone when they are about to die in combat by healing them, or buffing when not grouped. If some sort of formula could be put in place so the current mechanics would not be abused I would love to have these features in the game. However that is another thread ...

[Crow]

<DIV>I won't lie.. Everquest 1 was fun from 1 to 60.. I remember the first time I stepped into the field of bone and was afraid to go past the ruined buildings... Had some good times in Kurns tower basement too.. I had a lot of real life friends in EQ1 that's what made me stick it out through the crap of Pop, Gates, Omens.. Luclin was very bad tech wise but once they got it fixed the only problem was 45min raid mobs... The people I raided with and grouped with were people that moved away from where I lived (military, school etc).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes you could gouge prices a lot better when the bazaar was NFP, but it still was not fun running there from cabilis. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I should have explained the raid issue more I'm not blaming the one person who lagged, LDed, or messed up, I'm blaming the raid system since if the CH chain breaks down say bye bye to your raid.. Anything else in the raid can break down but that and you would survive.. When a main tank dies it's a problem, but it can be corrected quickly.. If the Mezer dies/looses control you can always have a kiter step in.. If the cleric Ch chain breaks down what do you do?? Have the shaman and druids spam heals (their new heals work a bit better at this)?? Yeah it might work but rarely does...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The holy trinity still stands but It's easier for me to find one out of 4 to 6 classes, then it is to find one class.. If I can't find a healer, I can either solo, grab a few of any class and slaughter Solo mobs (not too bad xp with how fast you can kill them). In EQ1 I could solo all of veksar but it's green untill the theater area and those game pitiful xp. I can solo Riwwi Arena (which was fun) untill a named comes into it that I have to avoid since the Riwwi Nerf (xp was still bad there). PoF was the best place to XP when I was still playing near the tables area, not sure if it was nerfed or not now..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When the game starts to seem like work is when I quit.. EQ1 at high level is like that now..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>P.S. when I talk about xp in eq1 I mean aa xp.</DIV>

[Bo]

<div></div>This thread was about the game being less challenging. One poster (or more ) claims this is because my low lvl toon is better equipped than my original. Moorgard said the changes were to make UI easier. The game is WAY easier now than it was at launch. It has nothing to do with gear being better, (i havent given my low lvl mage any money) and it has nothing to do with the user interface. It isn't even the increased solo content that much. The biggest change to make the game easy, or at least made you afraid to go scampering thru Nek at lvl 19-20 was the agro range and how long mobs would follow you. When i was a lvl 12 crusader I would never have run thru nek to group with a friend in blackburrow. My lvl 12 sorcerer did no problem, because the mobs only chased me 20 yards. Thats what I miss the most. The fear of getting agro when i explore a new zone. I can outrun anything. I have no fear of dying like i did with my first char. My point is, bring back the fear of death. Unless you are totally clumsy at lvl 20 you can explore all of El and Zek and not get killed ( if you dont stop moving) Olarad lvl 50 ShadowKnight Mastuvious lvl 20 Warlock <div></div><p>Message Edited by Bog1 on <span class=date_text>07-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:29 AM</span>