Heritage quests now fall under the 50-quest maximum - Why?

[Actfive]

<DIV>- Heritage quests can be deleted from your journal, and now fall under the 50-quest maximum.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, this is test and not all things go to Live, but I can't think of a single reason why you would want a Heritage quest deleted from your book in the first place. The pain of camping named is reason enough not to delete these quests. I certainly would not like to camp Lord Byron two or three times for the same quest. Heritage quests by thier nature can be long drawn out quests, and can sit in your quest book for ages. What this will in effect do is cut my quest book to 40 quests, as I always sail close to the wind as far as quests go, and rarely have more than one or two open slots. What this will do is put me in overflow...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The crazy thing is collection qyuests which can be finished in a snap of the fingers by buying off the broker don't count, but Heritage quests that can take a week or more to complete if you are camping a number of names will count.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What is the reasoning behind this change? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[z2xm]

<DIV>I must agree.  I know I personally had the lightstone HQ in my book from the early 20's and because it requires several rather lengthy camps didn't finish it till I was level 47.  This would have been really depressing had it counted towards my limit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Plus in a guild where there are not enough to do some of the more involved quests that require raids ( GB, SBS, SSOY, etc) it may take quite awhile to either get the guild to a point where they can do this or find a pick-up raid that is successful.  Not to mention the FBSS and trying to not only find the monks up, but then trying and assemble a task force in the alloted time before they are either taken by other groups and killed or despawn.  Eyepatch and Lavastorm both involve finding some random bots on the ground that are fairly uncommon, and highly contested.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All of these lead me to agree that making them count against your total is rediculous, especially because currently you need to have the guild raids in your book to recieve writs.  So in effect if you can have upwards of 10 quests tied up in just doing writs.  Add that to your HQ's and you may have lost 1/4 of your total quest amount, which is rediculous.</DIV>

[Ar-Cunin]

I also think this is a bad idea. There really isn't any reason for this change - other than to make gameplay more difficult for those of us that likes questing.

[Sk]

<P>I see absolutely no logical reason for doing this. Heritages are extremely lengthy and journal space is precious.</P> <P>I hardly ever have more than 2 quest slots free and this change would make it even harder. </P>

[Amise]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>A while back people were begging for collections to be exempt from the 50 quest limit.  So the devs complied and at the same time made it so collections didn't count towards the completed quests total.  And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Fast forward to now and pretty much the same thing is happening.  A few people asked for a change and not surprisingly nobody likes the added extra consequences. How come you didn't learn. <span>:smileytongue: The logical reason might be that the journal is coded such that any quest which is a) not a collection and b) is deletable counts towards the limit.    Makes perfect sense to me, because this is the way it actually is.  Tradeskill tasks, heritages, and hallmarks are not deletable and do not count towards the limit, and everything that is deletable and not a collection does count. I don't like the change much either, because it's going to inconvenience me.  But if that's the reason it's been made then it does make sense. To z2xm:  you don't need all those guild raids in your quest journal to receive writs.  All you do is accept the "report to registrar" quest, you don't have to go talk to the registrar.   Just leave the "report" quest sitting there active and you can get writs as normal. </span><p> </p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class=date_text>07-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:05 AM</span>

[z2xm]

<DIV>if in fact the journal is coded in the manner you described, then it would seem simple enough to simply have HQ's fall into the same category as collections in within their coding, or specifically add in an exemption for the 20 odd quests in the Heritage line.  But what do I know?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and I did try it without the quest to go talk to him, they just give me the standard "you need to go do what I told you to do" line instead of giving any writs.</DIV>

[Dro]

<P>Making them deletable may please a small minority - but making them count towards the limit is very bad. These quests are so long that they sit in the journal for a very long time.</P> <P> </P>

[Jimena]

<P>what will happen on live date if you have 50 quests already in journal and 7 heritages, for a total of 57</P> <P> </P>

[Amise]

<div></div>The extra quests go into overflow.   From memory (I could be wrong) you need to delete the extras until you're back at the 50 quest limit.   So try not to be over the limit the night before LU12 goes live. =/ Z2xm, if you didn't, try getting the "report to registrar" quest from an NPC who <i>isn't</i> the one that you get writs for your tier from.  Then leave the report quest in your journal and go to your regular writ npcs and they should give you writs.  If that doesn't work for you I don't know what else you could try, that method has always worked for me and I never have to use more than one extra slot when I want to get writs. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class=date_text>07-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:02 AM</span>

[EtoilePirate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amise wrote:<BR>The extra quests go into overflow.   From memory (I could be wrong) you need to delete the extras until you're back at the 50 quest limit.   So try not to be over the limit the night before LU12 goes live. =/ <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Basically, yeah.  Heritages counting toward the total meant I had 51 quests when I logged in (8 open Heritage Quests + 7 open slots = D'oh).  I deleted a couple of Kill X quests from Feerrott and EF and my journal, thankfully, seems not to be bugged at all, and I can carry on as normal.</DIV>

[SavinDwa]

<P>The change to having Heritage quests count towards to limit of 50 is going ot cause me some issues, but I think it really just raises a nasty problem and that is the quest limit itself.</P> <P>Until you get to about level 20 the quest limit seems to be "more than you would ever need".  Its certainly easy to manage with the limit of 50.  But as you start to hit 30 its becoming a nightmare that will only get worse.  A player of level 35 hass probably visited Zek, EL, Riverdale, maybe Feerroot, nek castle, Runnyeye Citadel, Varsooms, Condemed Catacombs, Splitpaw, etc....  </P> <P> </P> <P>Even being careful you can easily have 4-5 quests active for each of these.  Having 5 active heritage quests is almost the minimum.  4 City writs, 2-3 trade related quests, access quests, hallmarks, etc...</P> <P>50 just is not enough.  By the time a player hits 40 managing the quests is becoming a job in itself.</P> <P>By the way, if someone is at the limit (50) and this change takes place which quests will get automatically removed?</P> <P>I really think SOE needs to rething the limits.  Maybe the limit raises to 60 at level 20, and 70 at level 30 and 80 at level 40?  I don't know the answer, but quests are a very big part of the game and there is nothing more stupid thatn entering Splitpaw and quickly deciding which quests to delete to allow you to add some splitpaw quests.  I HAVE ALREADY deleted everything that is green, most of the blues, etc.  Deleting more at this point hurts. </P>

[Naughtesn]

<P>BAD idea to have these count toward 50 quest limit- at level 40 or so a patron or other enterprising young adventurer could have up to 22 slots taken up by heritages in some state of completion.  </P> <P>Why the change?   Have ppl been abusing this?  Has this changed some balance issues having 57 quests in your journal?  Have players complained they have too many quests open?  Does having 57 quests in your journal cause Splitpaw to crash?  Why the change, then, since I believe the answers to the above questions are "No"?</P> <P>Since no explanation has been given, I could surmise that in order to make a quest deletable, it must count against the limit....  So, if thats the case. don't make them deletable.  Who wants to delete a heritage quest anyway?  The only time you might want to do that is if it's bugged like the Highwaymen part of FBSS (fix the quests that are bugged and ppl have no reason to delete them).</P>

[Actfive]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> SavinDwarf wrote:<BR> <P> But as you start to hit 30 its becoming a nightmare that will only get worse.  A player of level 35 hass probably visited Zek, EL, Riverdale, maybe Feerroot, nek castle, Runnyeye Citadel, Varsooms, Condemed Catacombs, Splitpaw, etc.... </P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>A lot of the problems associated with full quest books stems from the reduction in Charactor level requirements to access certain zones. The 50 limit might have been ok in the days of higher level access to the new areas, but but now the journal limit of 50 is way way out of date.  In the days of higher levels to auto access, you had mostly finished off those old quests. You finished them off to level, and gain access to the new areas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now it's only lvl 30 to access Zek & EL, and at 30 you still have a bucket load of unfinished quests from Nek or TS. Of course you want to explore the new areas, and so you pick up more quests, further compounding your problem....Then you hit 40, and now you can visit Tier five zones, more quests, more journal problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I hate deleting unfinished quests, but I have been doing this a lot just to keep under my cap. Now this cap is to be reduced further with the addition of heritage quests? Personally I think it needs to be <STRONG>increased</STRONG> to at least 75, AND still have heritage quests exempt.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[StoneYe]

<P>Actually there is at least one good reason to do this.</P> <P>In the lost legend of lavastorm you are given a tablet that you must read. If you don't know the magic language it just hangs out in your inventory. If you by accident delete this tablet you have an unupdatable, undeleteable HQ stuck in your journal. The GMs can't help you with it so you are basically SOL. </P> <P>IMO they could have come up with a better solution to fix issues like this but at least it will be dealt with now. I have a few friends with this problem and it's a real downer for them.</P>

[WuphonsReach]

If you overflow the quest book (I had 51 quests last night), the only thing that happens is that you cannot accept any new quests.Existing quests in the quest journal still functioned normally.

[Makkaio]

<DIV>Man, just when I was going to start to push the devs to up the quest limit to 75.  :smileysad:  Unfortunately, I'm a quest pack rat and my questbook is ALWAYS full.  With Lore and Legend, book quests, heritage quests...well, with so many important quests, I think the limit of 50 is just WAY too small.  How about pushing the limit to 75 with heritage quest counting toward that limit?</DIV>

[Tomanak]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> StoneYeti wrote:<BR> <P>Actually there is at least one good reason to do this.</P> <P>In the lost legend of lavastorm you are given a tablet that you must read. If you don't know the magic language it just hangs out in your inventory. If you by accident delete this tablet you have an unupdatable, undeleteable HQ stuck in your journal. The GMs can't help you with it so you are basically SOL. </P> <P>IMO they could have come up with a better solution to fix issues like this but at least it will be dealt with now. I have a few friends with this problem and it's a real downer for them.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I can see this as a valid reason for needing to delete a HQ from ones journal. However as mentioned by everyone else, HQs stay in ones journal typically for a long time (Had Journey is Half the Fun from 15 till 45). Having them count towards the quest limit without raising the number of allowable quests is a bad idea. The game is called Ever<STRONG>Quest.... </STRONG>limiting the number we can have still further by including long term HQs to the count is not the way to go.

[StoneYe]

<P>I agree with you, they should do something better. Either make them deletable only or raise the cap. </P> <P>I just saw a lot of people complaining and figured I would put an actual reason out there. There are much better solutions but at least this particular problem can be dealt with now.</P>

[WuphonsReach]

The 50 quest limit is due to technical reasons (if I remember what folks said about the beta, when there was no limit at all). Basically, every time you zone, kill something, or move around a zone, the server has to perform some sort of calculation on every active quest. So, to raise the cap might result in more server load, or require them to spend time fine-tuning code to work faster with a higher number of active quests.

[Blackguard]

<div></div><p class="MsoNormal">While we wanted to make it possible to delete Heritage quests and still have them not count toward your total, it wasn't possible at the time. The flag that allows a quest to be deleted is one and the same with the making a quest count against your total. That's part of the current quest system, and would have required significantly more code and design rework to alter that behavior. We didn't make this change lightly, so I'd like to let you know why it was done.</p> <p class="MsoNormal">Often times, we don't give any indication that you are accepting a heritage quest before it appears in your journal. After getting this quest that you may never complete, it was permanently in your quest journal, for better or for worse. While they did not count against your quest total, it can be annoying to have a quest in there that you'll never get to. We also wanted to make heritage quests deleteable because having them in your journal increases your character size. Although it isn't generally too big of a deal, we do store a significant amount of data per quest on your character, and it had the potential to negatively impact performance for some characters. We understand that journal space can be viewed as a commodity, and that you would prefer that Heritage quests did not count toward your quest total. Because of this, we waited to make heritage quests deleteable until after Collection quests got their own journal tab.</p> <p class="MsoNormal">All that said, this change is currently on the Test server. As with all other changes that you see on Test, that doesn't necessarily mean it will appear on Live servers in its current form. Please continue to give us feedback on this and other changes we've made in Live Update #12, and thank you to all who are helping us test EverQuest II.</p>

[Zcore24]

So why not make a Heritage Quest tab? <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span> And what happens when i log in with 1 space left for quests and I have 8 Heritage Quests open? Z <div></div>

[Zcore24]

<span><blockquote><hr>Amise wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>A while back people were begging for collections to be exempt from the 50 quest limit. <font color="#ff3366"> So the devs complied and at the same time made it so collections didn't count towards the completed quests total</font>.  And there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. Fast forward to now and pretty much the same thing is happening.  A few people asked for a change and not surprisingly nobody likes the added extra consequences. How come you didn't learn. <span>:smileytongue: The logical reason might be that the journal is coded such that any quest which is a) not a collection and b) is deletable counts towards the limit.    Makes perfect sense to me, because this is the way it actually is.  Tradeskill tasks, heritages, and hallmarks are not deletable and do not count towards the limit, and everything that is deletable and not a collection does count. I don't like the change much either, because it's going to inconvenience me.  But if that's the reason it's been made then it does make sense. To z2xm:  you don't need all those guild raids in your quest journal to receive writs.  All you do is accept the "report to registrar" quest, you don't have to go talk to the registrar.   Just leave the "report" quest sitting there active and you can get writs as normal. </span><p> </p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class="date_text">07-14-2005</span> <span class="time_text">06:05 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Do you mean that it doesn't count towards the quest total you see on EQ2Players? If so you are mistaken, that total does take into account your collection quests.</span><div></div>

[Finora]

<DIV>If the problem is<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P>Often times, we don't give any indication that you are accepting a heritage quest before it appears in your journal. After getting this quest that you may never complete, it was permanently in your quest journal, for better or for worse. While they did not count against your quest total, it can be annoying to have a quest in there that you'll never get to.<BR><BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>WHY not just make a note in the quest acceptance window that it is  a heritage quest? That would be better than making them count towards the total number of quests. Deletable or not. Terribly annoying. My test character isnt' going to have a problem because she's got no heritages yet, but should this go live its going to be bad for my main character who's got quite a few heritages and a full journal.<BR></DIV>

[Desulto]

When they first made the change the collections weren't showing up in the totals.  Now I think they show on EQ2Players but not in game.  Probably because of the same reason heritages count towards your total now.

[Uba]

<DIV>Being a quest junkie, there is nothing worse than going to a new zone and not having enough room to pick up all the quests that are around you. Especially in zones that have quests deep in the dungeon of yellows that you just fought towards, to kill the mobs that you're either killing now or are at the front of the entrance, and then you discover you're full of quests. Then you furtively search for quests that you can easily pick up again, or delete a book quest where you've only killed a few mobs for the quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is a difficult balance here... <EM>imposing a quest limit can also impose on a players fun factor.</EM> </DIV> <DIV><BR>While I certainly appreciate the move of the collections quests (now I can actually do them!), I'm uncertain as to whether 50 quests is a proper limit.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Please understand that many of us have 10 heritage quests going at a time, because it's impossible to find a group to do a heritage quest from start to finish in any given day. If you're going to count heritage quests as journal spots, perhaps a quest cap to 60 might be in order. </DIV>

[Na]

<span><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div>Often times, we don't give any indication that you are accepting a heritage quest before it appears in your journal. After getting this quest that you may never complete, it was permanently in your quest journal, for better or for worse. While they did not count against your quest total, it can be annoying to have a quest in there that you'll never get to.<hr></blockquote>But don't you have this same issue with Wholesaler and Workshop tasks?</span><div></div>

[Targ]

<P>So what happens if you don't have suffecient space in your journal now to include the heritage quests when this becomes active? Does the space available go negative? </P> <P>Will you be able to complete quests while you are over the limit? Or will you be forced to delete some befor you can continue.  </P> <P>If you delete a heritage quest can you ever get it agin?</P><p>Message Edited by Gantell on <span class=date_text>07-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:46 PM</span>

[wurtin]

<DIV>I would much rather have the heritage quest stay resident than have them count toward my total.  I'm always near 45 ish on the quest list.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I have no problems with the heritage staying there because they remind me of them.  No, I can't do it now, but I will be able to do it in X levels and I don't have to go back and find the quest NPC, or look anything up on the web to restart it.  I can just go to town with the first part of the quest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Heritage quests should not count toward the total because the the large amounts of time it takes to accomplish them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Please don't let this go live.  The disadvantages far outweigh the 1 advantage.</DIV>

[TygerBlueEy]

<P>Simple give Heritage quests their own tab also. As the game progresses theres going to be a lot more of them I bet.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[WuphonsReach]

<blockquote><hr>Gantell wrote: <P>So what happens if you don't have suffecient space in your journal now to include the heritage quests when this becomes active? Does the space available go negative? </P> <P>Will you be able to complete quests while you are over the limit? Or will you be forced to delete some befor you can continue. </P> <P>If you delete a heritage quest can you ever get it agin?</P><hr></blockquote>If you go over the limit as a result of the change:1) Your quest journal will be at 51 quests (or 60 quests or however many you're over by).2) You cannot recieve any *new* quests while your journal is overflowing3) You are able to complete existing quests4) Once you drop below 50 quests, you can start getting new quests.Tested all of the above.I have not tested to see if you can start a HQ, delete it, then get it again.

[Khale]

I just don't understand why they can't make it possible to delete *ANY* quest that we have? I have a couple boat ride hallmark quests that just sit in my journal because I levelled up and auto entered into the zone. I'd surely like to be able to delete them since i'll probably never do them.

[Bethin]

<DIV>Thank goodness this is on test.  I hope we see a new patch note that will reverse this desicion.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just can't get over the fact that just because a very select few want to have the ability to delete a quest that doesn't count against them you would do this.  Who cares if it sits in a quest journal for ages.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The people who actually like this change are most likely people who don't bother with quests.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Vote no on proposition HQ!!!</DIV>

[Uba]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bethinna wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The people who actually like this change are most likely people who don't bother with quests.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>I agree that to many we seem like whiners, because many people aren't quest junkies. To most this will be "meh, what do I care" but some of us are on a mission to do every single quest in the game. </P> <P>A lot of us pick up a large number of quests prior to hitting a certain area, so we can bang them all off at the same time. </P> <P>I'm <STRONG>for </STRONG>moving the heritage quests to the regular journal but I'm <STRONG>against </STRONG>it if the cap isn't raised or another suitable solution isn't offered. </P> <P>Dev's believe they've already catered to us because they moved the Collection tab... what they don't seem to realize is many of us quest junkies didn't do collections for this reason, and utilized our entire journal for standard quests. What this update is doing is outright limiting the quest space we have now.</P>

[Paganst]

<DIV>One question I have is that my journal is pretty much full all the time...period.  I finish one quest and wind up picking up two more along the way.  So presently my Journal might have room for 1 more quest.  I have 5 or 6 heritage quests.  What kind of issues will this cause if it goes over? and I assume I will not be able to take any more quests until it is brought back under 50 quests.  Now all these quests are quite a ways into them and so they are not something I would want to just delete.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It is going to be a real pain to get those quests down below 50 seeing as you are constantly putting out new quests and content (don't get me wrong THAT is a wonderful thing),  I know that increasing the amount of quests allowable is not really an option (I remember what it was like in beta).  But putting them on their own Tab like the collection quests does sound like a great idea.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just my 2cp worth.  Game on!</DIV>

[WuphonsReach]

Until you drop below 50 quests, the only negative effect of having an overflowing journal is that you cannot accept any new quests.

[Naughtesn]

I think the cases where people have many HQs open far outnumbers the cases where someone wants to delete an HQ (usually only when the quest is bugged).  Fix the quest and you'll remove any need to delete.

[Maewh]

<DIV>I don't post much, but I really would like to add my vote to the camp of not letting Heritage Quests take journal space away.  (Compensating by raising the number of available quests would be acceptable to me.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I keep my quest journal full at pretty much all times, and I just play too casually to be able to remove a heritage quest with any sort of efficiency.  So, essentially, you are dooming my quest journal to a near permanent -5 slots (I currently have 5 heritage quests).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Meadowhisper</DIV>

[Gorkk00]

<span><blockquote><hr>StoneYeti wrote:<p>Actually there is at least one good reason to do this.</p> <p>In the lost legend of lavastorm you are given a tablet that you must read. If you don't know the magic language it just hangs out in your inventory. If you by accident delete this tablet you have an unupdatable, undeleteable HQ stuck in your journal. The GMs can't help you with it so you are basically SOL. </p> <p>IMO they could have come up with a better solution to fix issues like this but at least it will be dealt with now. I have a few friends with this problem and it's a real downer for them.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>I see a pretty simple solution here: make this tablet NO-DESTROY and disappear when examined if you know magic language. And give another back to anybody who is stuck at that point in the HQ because they deleted it (or better make the item available to buy at the NPC in Nek Forest for people having reached this step, 'cause they made a mistake, paying a few gold to repair it would not be much, just like those who accepted the alternative crappy reward for dusty blue stone can go on on ghoulbane if they pay 10g). Making HQ count toward the limit is really a bad idea. If they have to be deletable (i really don't see why though, except for bugs, but better fix the bugs then - some people are stuck in a HQ cause they deleted an item, how many people will delete accidentaly an heritage they started and will have to camp mobs again or get that rare again? Really bad idea imho), wait for having them still not count toward the limit. And I agree with the various previous posters, 50 is a bit low, and will be definitely too low if heritages are counted in it (some of them are meant to sit in your journal for lots of level, aka JBoots run: you can get it at 15, but won't ever be able to complete it before 32, except if you're a 40+ crafter and have lots of people cleaning the way before you get in zones, which is unlikely <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</span><div></div>

[Blackguard]

<div></div><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Desulto]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P>Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wow!  Good on ya! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[RandomPlay]

<DIV>TYVM</DIV>

[Jeridor]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<div></div><p>Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote>Music to my ears.  Thanks very much, BG.</span><div></div>

[Ishnar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Actfive wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The crazy thing is collection qyuests which can be finished in a snap of the fingers by buying off the broker don't count,</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Just in case you didn't pice it up in one of the previous posts.  Collection quests do count toward your total, though you have to go to eq2players and check your profile to see.  In game they are on different tabs that is all.  There was a glitch when the collection tab was implemented but that has since been fixed.</P> <P>Ishnar<BR></P>

[Actfive]

<P>Yes they count towards your total completed, but any unfinished collection quests are not part of the 50 quest cap.</P> <P>Wonderfull news about the cap increase to 75. Glad our voices have been heard :smileyhappy:</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Uba]

<DIV>Yes, thank you very much!!  75 is far more than I expected, and a significant increase.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm curious, since I don't know the dynamics of the EQ2 servers, how this decreases performance? </DIV>

[Sorvani]

everytime you pass an NPC it checks your quest journal to determine if it needs to make a special reaction. everytime you kill an NPC it checks your quest journal for kill count updates etc.. early in beta there was no quest limit and with more than 200 people in one zone things got baaaaadddd.. with server stabillities increased i hope this doesn't cause much of an impact, cause i'm all for more journal space! <div></div>

[Lonw]

The 50 quest cap DISCOURAGED exploration, and was just a totally unnecessary restriction. After every time I hlped guildies with a boat ride, they had to go through their journal and start deleting old quests. People didnt WANT to go to new zones, coz they had too many unfinished quests in old zones, and liked the feeling of accomplishment of nailing a quest, and HATED deleting old ones. Writs and access quests, imo, should also not count toward the total. <div></div>

[Aegori]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lonwen wrote:<BR>The 50 quest cap DISCOURAGED exploration, and was just a totally unnecessary restriction. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Understandable thought, but realize the cap is there not to hinder, but for a major performance check. Back in beta, when there was no cap, everyone had a few hundered active quests. Each time anyone completed some action that could update a quest a check went through all the hundereds of quests to see if they needed to be updated. Multiply that by the number of people in any given zone and you had MASSIVE lag/crashed zones. The cap has a very important purpose and i understand why it's in. I'm glad it's getting raised, but if they need to reduce it again i also understand.</P> <P>-Aeg<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Aegorian on <span class=date_text>07-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:00 AM</span>

[Uba]

<DIV>Now this is really good to know. It explains why we had the cap in the first place. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When players understand this, they're considerably more forgiving. </DIV>

[retro_guy]

Why make Heritages deleteable and leave tradeskill  tasks undelatable? I'm never going to make my Agitation (Apprentice III) or Clouded Elixir of Resurgence, they just sit wasting 2 quest slots in my journal. Can we please hvbe these delatable too for those of us who can't stand tradeskilling?? <div></div>

[Niltsiar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P>Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <P><SPAN>Afaik the reason for performance problem with lots of quests is, that with every kill, every zone usw. the quests have to be checked.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>What about a questlog with unlimited quests ? It is possible, we only need another tab “active quests”. That tab has a limit of lets say 20 quests. Players should be able, to move quests in and out of this tab. Only quests in the “active” quests are checked.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>So both side have what they want … players have unlimited quests in their log and SOE has only 20 quests to check for better performance.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><EM>Sorry for my bad English, I’m no native English speaker.</EM></SPAN></P></DIV>

[Dro]

<P>Thanks for increasing the limit to 75 - that will help everyone. </P> <P>However if it does proove to impact performance then please drop this idea. The number of people who want to delete Heritage quests is hughly outnumbered by those who don't want heritage quests in the total count. In this case we'd all arather wait for a longer term solution to the deletable quests using the same flag as no-count ones.</P> <P> </P>

[Ricassari]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Droo2 wrote: <p>In this case we'd all arather wait for a longer term solution to the deletable quests using the same flag as no-count ones.  </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> I doubt that this will be an easy fix, from my experience. Things like this, using the same variable for two different things were common in the days of 64k RAM computers. Not necessary now, of course. Still, some lazy programmers continue to put related informations in the same data fields. Whenever I did things like this they always came back to haunt me - 100% sure. Like SOE is haunted here. And the fix was never easy, as it involved too many different bits and parts of the program that all have to be recoded to use the correct one of the new variable, and it is very prone to further errors. I NEVER do this now. No professional programmer stores data this way today. But professionalism is what is severely lacking at SOE, unfortunately <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> So we will have to live with deleteble = counts for the limit. The new 75 limit is not a good, but probably the best possible solution. Quick and dirty - but quick. Although I would do a quick database check on the number of open heritage quests on the chars, and then decide about the new limit based on the max and average numbers - I think a limit of 60 should be enough. Might be better for the performance, which should not suffer for such an insignificant change.</span><div></div>

[Ravenmi]

<P>Yeah, I was a lazy SoB with about 14 heritages in my journal or so and I don't know anyone that was as bad about finishing them as I was personally.  Sure there are some out there tho, heh.  But I'd still think raising the limit by 15 would be more then adaquate.  25 is probably more then needed.</P> <P>Although is its found 25 doesn't impact performance in any way noticable, I'd say thats great and go for it.  Less performance decrease the better tho so if 25 doesnt' work out give 15 or 10 a shot.</P> <P>BTW, back down to 6 unfinished now, heh.. got of my lazy [Removed for Content] for a few days. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Sural_Argonus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Niltsiar wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P>Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV> <P><SPAN>Afaik the reason for performance problem with lots of quests is, that with every kill, every zone usw. the quests have to be checked.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>What about a questlog with unlimited quests ? It is possible, we only need another tab “active quests”. That tab has a limit of lets say 20 quests. Players should be able, to move quests in and out of this tab. Only quests in the “active” quests are checked.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN>So both side have what they want … players have unlimited quests in their log and SOE has only 20 quests to check for better performance.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><EM>Sorry for my bad English, I’m no native English speaker.</EM></SPAN></P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>The problem with that is games such as this rely heavily on Database Connections.  The more calls you have at any given time, will decrease the transfer.  I know that the SWG Side was using SQL for some of this....and as some of you may know, SQL can be pretty flakey if you tax it too much....Heck...It likes to crash hard if you even try a simlple update.  I completely understand why they don't want to mess with it...It's working...When it's working...you don't mess with it....It's safer that way.<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is probably why there are some other limitations put on our characters....Our characters are not text files on a computer over there.  The main data is most likely all in DBase files...</DIV>

[Nil]

<span><blockquote><hr>retro_guy wrote:Why make Heritages deleteable and leave tradeskill  tasks undelatable? I'm never going to make my Agitation (Apprentice III) or Clouded Elixir of Resurgence, they just sit wasting 2 quest slots in my journal. Can we please hvbe these delatable too for those of us who can't stand tradeskilling?? <div></div><hr></blockquote>Quests that Can't be deleted do not count aginst yoru total.  Why did you get a tradeskill quets if you do not like tradeskills.  Seems kind of off to me.. but if you wnat em out of your jornal you need to complete them... However you can talk to the NPC to give you a differnt quest if those specfic items are not to your liking.  Maybey they can add a dialoge to wholsellers to remove thier quets form yoru journal. This will work for peopel who make the 10 items and sell em and forget what they were supposed to make.  </span><div></div>

[Ram]

<P>Quote:</P> <P>I see absolutely no logical reason for doing this. Heritages are extremely lengthy and journal space is precious.</P> <P> </P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcc00 size=2>Simple answer, why can't SOE bump the  50-quest maximum to 100??? I don't think you will find anyone saying that a  50-quest maximum is plenty of space, hell since I been level 10 I have always maxed out my quests at 50.  Nothing like going into a new zone and going to a few places and getting a chance for a new quest.... but NO, let me go look through my book and delete some to make room.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffcc00>And with the new expansion coming out, we would be fools not thinking they will add a ton more quest.  It only makes sense to bump the max amount of quests to  <STRONG>100-quest maximum now.</STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by Ramia on <span class=date_text>07-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:41 AM</span>

[Gorkk00]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ramia wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ffcc00" face="Comic Sans MS" size="2">Simple answer, why can't SOE bump the  50-quest maximum to 100??? I don't think you will find anyone saying that a  50-quest maximum is plenty of space, hell since I been level 10 I have always maxed out my quests at 50.  Nothing like going into a new zone and going to a few places and getting a chance for a new quest.... but NO, let me go look through my book and delete some to make room.</font></p> <p><font face="Comic Sans MS"><font size="2"><font color="#ffcc00">And with the new expansion coming out, we would be fools not thinking they will add a ton more quest.  It only makes sense to bump the max amount of quests to  <strong>100-quest maximum now.</strong></font></font></font></p> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Ramia on <span class="date_text">07-15-2005</span> <span class="time_text">06:41 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>That has been explained in this thread several time: it's a question of resources used by server. Blackguard said they'll put it up to 75, and see if it doesn't produces sever lags. I agree though than 50 is a pretty low cap, specialy with L&L, Language and Access and soon Heritages in the list (it's better than before though with collections out of this maximum now, it was awful at that time).</span><div></div>

[Sural_Argonus]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ramia wrote:<BR> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS" color=#ffcc00 size=2>Simple answer, why can't SOE bump the  50-quest maximum to 100??? I don't think you will find anyone saying that a  50-quest maximum is plenty of space, hell since I been level 10 I have always maxed out my quests at 50.  Nothing like going into a new zone and going to a few places and getting a chance for a new quest.... but NO, let me go look through my book and delete some to make room.</FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Comic Sans MS"><FONT size=2><FONT color=#ffcc00>And with the new expansion coming out, we would be fools not thinking they will add a ton more quest.  It only makes sense to bump the max amount of quests to  <STRONG>100-quest maximum now.</STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not to be mean or anything...But did you even read any of the posts in the thread, or did you just skim some of them?  I'd suggest re-reading at least the post from Blackguard.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  It's on Page 2.<BR>

[Makkaio]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P>Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thanks, Blackguard.  This is one perpetual quester that is keeping his fingers crossed.  But I will definitely resign quest space for maintained performance.  Thanks, again.</DIV>

[Mor]

Yippie!<div></div>

[BigRedWo]

Personally, I don't think the heritage quests should count towards the total, but if SOE is going to increase the max quests to 75 as well as force the heritage to count, then I'm okay with that.

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nilty wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> retro_guy wrote:<BR>Why make Heritages deleteable and leave tradeskill  tasks undelatable?<BR><BR>I'm never going to make my Agitation (Apprentice III) or Clouded Elixir of Resurgence, they just sit wasting 2 quest slots in my journal.<BR><BR>Can we please hvbe these delatable too for those of us who can't stand tradeskilling??<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Quests that Can't be deleted do not count aginst yoru total.  Why did you get a tradeskill quets if you do not like tradeskills.  Seems kind of off to me.. but if you wnat em out of your jornal you need to complete them... However you can talk to the NPC to give you a differnt quest if those specfic items are not to your liking.  <BR><BR>Maybey they can add a dialoge to wholsellers to remove thier quets form yoru journal. This will work for peopel who make the 10 items and sell em and forget what they were supposed to make.  <BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It's not just the tradeskill tasks, it's the wholesaler harvesting tasks, too. Yes...I'm a tier five harvester, I could go back and harvest whatever the heck it was I was supposed to harvest, but it's just an inconvenience. Same for whatever my tailor is supposed to make. I guess I should give in and do that, it just seems pretty poor planning for them to put ANY repeatable quests in that can't be deleted. Isn't the point of repeatable that you can go and get it again? So why did they need to be tagged undeletable to begin with?</P> <P>I think the increase to 75 is great, I'm one of those people always deleting every time I go somewhere new. On the other hand, I'm not sure why it would be so technically difficult to add an additional flag to quests for "active" vs "inactive". An additional field is not as much work as tampering with one already there. I would think that being allowed to have only a limited number of active quests actually doing all that checking at any given time, say 20, would speed things up quite a bit. </P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 42 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P>

[rtoub]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P>Thanks for the feedback, everyone. After some discussion and investigation, we've decided to try out the following: We're increasing the maximum number of active quests you can have to 75 from 50. If this proves to hinder performance noticeably, it may be changed back, but we're listening. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And a cheer rings out from all the questaholics!  The delete quest button fails again!  May we never have to use it again!</DIV>

[Powers]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ashlian wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>So why did they need to be tagged undeletable to begin with?</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>So that one cannot stand there in front of the wholesaler and repeatedly take and delete quests until one gets a quest one likes.</P> <P> </P>

[Nil]

Besides The wholeseller quest DOES NOT count aginst the total.  So what doe sit matter?  Finish it when you get a chance or ask for a new one.   and give the NPC fialoge to rmeove the quest for you  and if iyou recieved the quest within the past 30 mins It will tell you.  "Why dont you try working on that order a lil while longer, I just gave it to you"  Just like he says when you ask for a new quest.  <div></div>

[Gond]

Yay! 75 quests = <3. Thanks SOE! <span>:smileyvery-happy:<span>:smileyvery-happy:<span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span></span> <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span><div></div>

[Tyis]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> retro_guy wrote:<BR>Why make Heritages deleteable and leave tradeskill  tasks undelatable?<BR><BR>I'm never going to make my Agitation (Apprentice III) or Clouded Elixir of Resurgence, they just sit wasting 2 quest slots in my journal.<BR><BR>Can we please hvbe these delatable too for those of us who can't stand tradeskilling??<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I couldn't agree more.  ***** for you!</DIV>

[Naughtesn]

<P>Yay!</P> <P>Thanks for listening - the extra 25 quest slots make up the max 22 HQs u can have (unlikely yes) plus a few more.</P>

[Paganst]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lonwen wrote:<BR>The 50 quest cap DISCOURAGED exploration, and was just a totally unnecessary restriction. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>This is not true... it was a very necessary restriction.  Every time you take a quest it increases the size of your character's file.  In beta there was no limitation on the Journal and there were people who had 100 -200+ quests in the journal at a time and when you have many people like that in a zone it would cause severe lag and crashes (truth be told you did not have to have that many people like that to start causing problems with the servers).  Limiting how many quests were in a journal made a HUGE difference in the stability of the servers...  anyone else who was in beta from the beginning of beta 3 or earlier will probably remember this.  And as a side effect it caused people to focus more on the quests they had instead of trying to find every one there was before going back and doing them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My Journal is almost always full as I try to do every quest I can get a hold of.  Gaining access to a new zone and then deleting old quests (as you mentioned) is one option... another is to get access then return and finish the various quests you have.  Then head back to the new zones and fill up your journal again.</DIV>

[naagok]

<P>I like the idea of a 75 quest limit  but what happens if there is too much lag and you need to change it back to a 50 quest maximum?  Would we not be able to accept new quests until we got back down to 49 open quests? </P> <P>Just wondering.</P>

[WuphonsReach]

As mentioned previously... if they reduce the limit, your quest journal will merely "overflow" with the following results:- you may complete any existing quest- you may not accept new quests until you fall below the limitNothing dire (I had 51 quests after the HQ change, and had to clean a few out that night so I could do my bind point quest).

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LtPowers wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ashlian wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>So why did they need to be tagged undeletable to begin with?</BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>So that one cannot stand there in front of the wholesaler and repeatedly take and delete quests until one gets a quest one likes.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Why not? One can do that with city writs. I believe a change is in the works now to allow tradeskill writs to be chosen with the drop down box system they put in for city writs. Besides, there is a timer for requesting a new task, there's no reason they couldn't apply the timer when you receive the quest and have it not reset when you delete it.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 42 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore<BR></P>

[WuphonsReach]

I can think of one reason why not (and this is a 'thin' reason, so be gentle):When you take an adventure writ, you don't necessarily know that the mobs for the writ will be available. That, of course, depends on which writ you take and whether others are also hunting the same mobs. Plus, there is travel time involved getting to the mobs for the writ. So there is some risk and uncertainty when you accept an adventure writ. Also, a lot of adventurers like to get the same writ and hunt as a group, so there needed to be a way that they could all get identical writs.For tradeskill writs... if I know which items I have on-hand (subs, ready-made and ready for the final combine), being able to pick my writ would be rather trivial.

[Tockl]

<P>I love the idea of more quests, but am concerned about the lag.  Remember, the amount of quests YOU have will effect the lag of other group members, and other people in the zone.  This is why some people can solo anywhere no problem, but once they accept that group invite, they can barely play.</P> <P>This change, although welcome to the vast majority, will destroy the game for others.</P>