Cleric soloing gone?

[Lig]

<DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffff><I><B>Sassee:</B> Part of the changes coming to spells and combat arts is to adjust how much damage the various classes do in relation to each other. Can you tell us how the different subclasses will rank in relative damage potential?</I><BR>  </FONT><FONT color=#66ffff><B>Steve "Moorgard" Danuser:</B> Without giving the precise DPS numbers we intend each class to have, I can list how the classes will relate to one another in damage output. There are basically five groupings that classes fall into, from highest amount of damage output to the lowest.<BR><BR>First group: </FONT></DIV> <UL> <LI><FONT color=#66ffff>Wizard/Warlock </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#66ffff>Assassin/Ranger</FONT></LI></UL> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#66ffff>Second group: </FONT></DIV> <UL> <LI><FONT color=#66ffff>Conjurer/Necromancer (using damage pet) </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#66ffff>Brigand/Swashbuckler</FONT></LI></UL> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#66ffff>Third group: </FONT></DIV> <UL> <LI><FONT color=#66ffff>Coercer/Illusionist, Conjurer/Necromancer (using tank pet) </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#66ffff>Troubador/Dirge </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#66ffff>Bruiser/Monk </FONT></LI></UL> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#66ffff>Fourth group: </FONT></DIV> <UL> <LI><FONT color=#66ffff>Berserker/Shadowknight </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#66ffff>Paladin/Guardian</FONT></LI></UL> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>Fifth group: </FONT></DIV> <UL> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>Fury/Warden </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>Defiler/Mystic </FONT> <LI><FONT color=#ff0000>Inquisitor/Templar</FONT></LI></UL> <DIV><BR><FONT color=#66ffff>Keep in mind that these aren't absolutes. </FONT><STRONG><FONT color=#66ffff>A Guardian who concentrates on damage output and upgrades his or her offensive abilities could surpass a Berserker who focuses on defensive capabilities.</FONT> </STRONG></DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the fact that all the healing classes are in the last group means we will not be able to solo at all anymore? What about the splitpaw pack with all its solo content... does this mean that we are out of luck and just will not have solo content that is doable?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My DPS is pathetic enough as it is as an Inq if you make it to the point where I can't solo at all I will be pretty upset.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope that you guys have thought this through is all I am saying.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ligur1 on <span class=date_text>06-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:11 AM</span>

[Daffid011]

Where do you think priests fall DPS wise right now? =P <div></div>

[Lig]

Yes I understand but if they are reducing damage as they say they are that is going to cause serious problems. In any case I am taking a wait and see attitude... so I guess we'll see heh.

[l_doggy_l]

Even so... Fighting mobs as a priest is not about dps... Its about out-lasting the opponent.... With my Defiler I'll turn on Melee, cast my debuffs, cast my dots, (hit my HO and heal myself if needed. *rinse and repeating this part*) Just because as a priest class we don't have dps doesn't mean we still can't solo... Its all about strategy... <div></div>

[bigmak20]

No concern here.  I'm quite certain that's where we are in the dps ranks today.  Every combat log I've ever seen has me at the bottom even when I TRY to DPS just for fun.  I'm still begged for in groups because I'm a darn good healer and I still solo a-lot because I'm used to taking forever to kill stuff (tedious slow and boring at times; templars level so very very slow...).

[Lig]

<P>Yes it takes me forever to kill stuff as well... but as an Inq I do have some nice DPS... especially with my imbued stuff and my Wyrmsteel mace. I solo all the time and that is what I hope will not change for me. In any case as I said I'll just wait and see... kind of stupid to complain before I see the results of the changes</P> <P>As I said in the end I just hope they thought it through is all.</P>

[Kirotaan]

I don't think it will be the end of soloing for clerics.  You can still heal yourself where as use mage types can't (minus necro's but our self heals can't come close to healer heals).  So you will still be able to solo it will just take a little more time.  <div></div>

[Lig]

<P>You know it really should show you who rated you and what rating they gave you. Turn about is fair play... if people are going to continue to 1 star for no reason at all we should be able to 1 star them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</P> <P>The person that did it... you are an idiot just FYI.</P>

[Daffid011]

I'd bet you got one starred because your post is filled with assumptions.  Like priests not already being in the bottom tier for damage output.  Then assuming that priest damage is going down, when in fact it might just go up, who knows?  Then you assume soloing is over. However, caring about stars is pointless. <div></div>

[Dorma]

I watched a cleric solo Broodmother the other day,  took her 10 minutes but she had no problem other then the time it took.  Yeah, your DPS is low, but you can still solo,  and i am pretty sure healers are at the bottom of DPS list already.

[TiMat]

<DIV>I watched a cleric solo Broodmother the other day,  took her 10 minutes but she had no problem other then the time it took.  Yeah, your DPS is low, but you can still solo,  and i am pretty sure healers are at the bottom of DPS list already</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dormant</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I don't say cleric should solo, neither should they have a good dps, that not my point.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>The point i want to share is that you say : "cleric can still solo" but if while a cleric solo 1 mob, others class solo 3 mobs, i think that cleric soloing is pretty useless...I mean soloing is not only about wining :</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2> it's about earning, <EM>alone</EM>,  X amouts of xp in a certain period of time. and from my point of vue it should be a more or less equal amout among all classes. <EM>if all the class have more or less the same groupe appeal...</EM></FONT></DIV>

[Lig]

<DIV>I didn't make a single assumption. I didn't say that clerics were somewhere other than at the bottom. You infered that I meant we were not at the bottom. I know where we rest as DPS... I have a parser too you know. As for assuming that the dmg output is going down... Morrgaurd himself said that the damage output of inq's was going to be reduced in some post if I am not mistaken (which I sure could be). And I never assumed soloing was over I just said that I hope they thought about it very hard because if they make it harder for me to solo I will be upset.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It seems to me that you are the one making all sorts of assumptions... but in any case I still think we should be told who rated us and what rating they gave .</DIV>

[bigmak20]

You saw a CLERIC solo Broodmother?  You know a cleric is a Templar or Inquisitor right?  I very very seriously doubt any templar could solo even a green named unless MAYBE all gear is fabled and has prismatic.  I'm only slightly more incredulous about an Inquisitor being able to do it since they make a bit more DPS.  I've tackled named mobs 20 lvls below me (to clean up ancient quest jrnl entries) and barely survived so this is hard to believe. I think you mean to say PRIEST and probably DRUID which would include a fury or warden -- both of which solo better then a temp/inquis by most ppls standards. I love being a templar I heal very well and solo for [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] (STILL waiting on my "SLAYER OF CRABS" title).  I CAN solo; very slowly.  I'm happy with that.  It's our role.

[Thesp]

I'd wait and see when the changes actually go live before jumping to any conclusions and running around screaming the sky is falling. Or you could play on the test server to get when the changes hit there which should probably be happening pretty soon.

[Metran]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bigmak2010 wrote:<BR>You saw a CLERIC solo Broodmother?  You know a cleric is a Templar or Inquisitor right?  I very very seriously doubt any templar could solo even a green named unless MAYBE all gear is fabled and has prismatic.  I'm only slightly more incredulous about an Inquisitor being able to do it since they make a bit more DPS.  I've tackled named mobs 20 lvls below me (to clean up ancient quest jrnl entries) and barely survived so this is hard to believe.<BR><BR>I think you mean to say PRIEST and probably DRUID which would include a fury or warden -- both of which solo better then a temp/inquis by most ppls standards.<BR><BR>I love being a templar I heal very well and solo for [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] (STILL waiting on my "SLAYER OF CRABS" title).  I CAN solo; very slowly.  I'm happy with that.  It's our role.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>It's doable, took me 20 minutes as an inquisitor and it was all about using potions, properly.  HoT potions, Mitigation, Str/Sta, etc.   No fabled gear, a couple of Ebon Pieces and using my free reactives early enough in the fight so that they would refresh in time when I was running real low on power.  I don't think I would have been able to pull it off without the T5 rare potions like the mitigation and HoT however.<BR></P>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TiMat wrote:<BR> <DIV>I watched a cleric solo Broodmother the other day,  took her 10 minutes but she had no problem other then the time it took.  Yeah, your DPS is low, but you can still solo,  and i am pretty sure healers are at the bottom of DPS list already</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dormant</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>I don't say cleric should solo, neither should they have a good dps, that not my point.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2>The point i want to share is that you say : "cleric can still solo" but if while a cleric solo 1 mob, others class solo 3 mobs, i think that cleric soloing is pretty useless...I mean soloing is not only about wining :</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=2> it's about earning, <EM>alone</EM>,  X amouts of xp in a certain period of time. and from my point of vue it should be a more or less equal amout among all classes. <EM>if all the class have more or less the same groupe appeal...</EM></FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That's true....but it's going to be very hard to balance out dmg among all contexts without completely obliterating some of the things the classes are individually good at, which I don't think we want to see. In example, my sister in law is a 40 wizzy, and she's a very good root/dot/nuke kiter. There have been times in overland zones where she has clearly been able to take on stuff my 40 fury would find difficult or impossible, with little or no real risk to herself. The same of my brother the 40 ranger who bowkites and can even melee fairly well if he needs to. With plenty of room to move, they can quickly out-dmg and out-xp me. </P> <P>Then came Splitpaw, and the tables turned. They CAN solo in Splitpaw, but it hasn't been worth it to them, whereas I was chaining instances with glee. My sister in law is in serious trouble from the melee if she's stifled by a caster, my brother has the same problem with stuns, they both have to kill one mob and yell and run to split the mobs....I'm not even sure if that's possible past the prerelease, I thought we had stuff repop on us in the Sundering instance (couldn't really do anything last night, having connection issues :smileysad<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> At any rate, they both gave it up after several deaths in a row, while I merrily forged through about 10 with one death (2 enchanters and 2 summoners in one group = bad). </P> <P>I don't think healers will see much difference in current damage output. What I do think we'll see is more tuning of various instances so that all classes can enjoy them. The report that they're putting further scaling in (normal, medium, difficult settings for solo and group Splitpaw instances) should let everyone rise to the level they're comfortable with. If the combat and spell changes allow all classes to successfully solo the same mobs, there will still be variations based on circumstance. I expect I'll always shine in tight quarters compared to the people who have to rely on kiting. Likewise, in overland zones, they'll have an easier time of it. So I might be able to do Splitpaw on a difficult setting, while ranger and wizzy do normal.....but they make up for it by zooming past me with those higher mobs in overland zones or killing faster at the normal setting. Frankly, my druid in EQ1 hated kiting, so I'm just as happy I don't have to do it! </P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 40 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore<BR></P>

[bigmak20]

We won't see combat changes until just before or just after DnD and/or Vanguard come out.  Why do you want to quit??? Combat changes will solve ALL your issues!!! But never deliver. It's the carrot they want to use to try and keep us from quitting thru all the nerfs.  Only when there's legitimate competition will they bother release the combat changes.

[Lig]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thespar wrote:<BR>I'd wait and see when the changes actually go live before jumping to any conclusions and running around screaming the sky is falling. Or you could play on the test server to get when the changes hit there which should probably be happening pretty soon. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You know it is amazing.... do you guys even read what people write? I didn't scream the sky is falling... all I did was raise a concern and at the end say "I just hope you guys have thought it through all the way is all"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's amazing...  I can't tell if you guys just don't read what people write or you read it but infer what you want from it. It's amazing really.... come on guys stop being so silly.</DIV>

[Kabil]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ligur1 wrote:<div> <blockquote> <hr> Thespar wrote:I'd wait and see when the changes actually go live before jumping to any conclusions and running around screaming the sky is falling. Or you could play on the test server to get when the changes hit there which should probably be happening pretty soon. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>You know it is amazing.... do you guys even read what people write? I didn't scream the sky is falling... all I did was raise a concern and at the end say "I just hope you guys have thought it through all the way is all"</div> <div> </div> <div>It's amazing...  I can't tell if you guys just don't read what people write or you read it but infer what you want from it. It's amazing really.... come on guys stop being so silly.</div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I agree with you , Clerics/Healers .. we barely solo .. Sure we do have our moments but we are a backup class .. sure we play a main role but we are not soloers.   Sure some of you would like to scream until your blue in the face about how your true to soloing and would never do otherwise. Sure some of us do solo , I did the solo arena last night in SS and had no problems with it , I did some of the heroic solo too .. But I do not do hardcore soloing like some people on this server who would rather reroll their character than ask for assistance or depend on anyone for assistance. But I do believe that we over all classes should be put at the bottom of that list.  In retrospect .. all dmg classes should be higher than a priest class.<hr></blockquote> </span><div></div>

[tovin]

<DIV>The real question is what do you consider solo'ing?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I solo exclussively, as a level 25 templar (very very casual player).  Sometimes, I can take oranges, othertimes, I can take greens.  It's all xp.  If I wanted to xp as fast as a class that could take all oranges, then I'd be that class.  I don't mind solo'ing greens.  I'm more likely to get random drops, and I can log in and play for 5 minutes at a time.  As long as they don't take that away, from any/all classes, then I don't see a problem, personally.</DIV>

[Dorma]

Funny thing was a guard and i were standing there taking bets how fast she'd turn and run,  he he.  She soloed it just fine,  took a lil bit,  but as far as i could see she was well geared and letting the reactives do their job.  She killed the named(broodmother) first and let the lil ones keep hitting her to make the reactives go off.  By the way,  it was a templar. 

[Lig]

<P>Look I'm a lvl 50 Inq / lvl 50 Prov ... I could care less about exp. I belong to a very very good guild (we were first on server with Wyrmsteel and guild is almost lvl 26) so I don't solo a whole lot since I am needed on raids and groups built to try for masters... however I do like to solo once in a while and SS was awsome last night. I loved the fact that I could go in and have a blast just by myself... so when I say solo I don't care if the mob is green or orange I just want it to be feasable for me to do solo content....</P> <P>If a tank can do solo content and I can't after the patch it would be a real bummer... that's all I'm saying and I hope they have thought it through is all.</P>

[Vathral]

<div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>TiMat wrote:<div>I watched a cleric solo Broodmother the other day,  took her 10 minutes but she had no problem other then the time it took.  Yeah, your DPS is low, but you can still solo,  and i am pretty sure healers are at the bottom of DPS list already</div> <div> </div> <div>Dormant</div> <div> </div> <div><font size="2">I don't say cleric should solo, neither should they have a good dps, that not my point.</font></div> <div><font size="2"></font> </div> <div><font size="2">The point i want to share is that you say : "cleric can still solo" but if while a cleric solo 1 mob, others class solo 3 mobs, i think that cleric soloing is pretty useless...I mean soloing is not only about wining :</font></div> <div><font size="2"></font> </div> <div><font size="2"> it's about earning, <em>alone</em>,  X amouts of xp in a certain period of time. and from my point of vue it should be a more or less equal amout among all classes. <em>if all the class have more or less the same groupe appeal...</em></font></div><hr></blockquote>I think that was me =X I let my reactives do the job but I dont know (havent tried yet), how well I would have done without my gear. I have atleast 4-5 fabled gear with either a proc/stun/stiffle. But reactives did most of the job and used my nukes and HOs wisely to save up my mana. I have done alot of soloing. I've been able to kill the 49^^ giants in PF or the mobs in the Obelisk past the Labrynth keeper and stuff. </span><div></div><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Vathral on <span class=date_text>07-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 AM</span>

[razzinra]

<P>Borekai wrote....</P> <P> </P> <P>You saw a CLERIC solo Broodmother?  You know a cleric is a Templar or Inquisitor right?  I very very seriously doubt any templar could solo even a green named unless MAYBE all gear is fabled and has prismatic.  I'm only slightly more incredulous about an Inquisitor being able to do it since they make a bit more DPS.  I've tackled named mobs 20 lvls below me (to clean up ancient quest jrnl entries) and barely survived so this is hard to believe.<BR><BR>I think you mean to say PRIEST and probably DRUID which would include a fury or warden -- both of which solo better then a temp/inquis by most ppls standards.<BR><BR>I love being a templar I heal very well and solo for [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] (STILL waiting on my "SLAYER OF CRABS" title).  I CAN solo; very slowly.  I'm happy with that.  It's our role. </P> <P> </P> <P>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <P>I have a 50 Inquis myself, and believe it or not I solo 44 ^^ to 46 ^^   quite frequently.  Ive found out that if you can keep your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] alive long enough for the mob to lose his power, then there is a pretty good chance of defeating the mob.  As a patron in our guild i find myself doing many, many writs, and some of these writs arent in very hospitable area's.  I could yell the mob and run 1/2 way thru a zone to drop them, or i could stand and fight and not have to worry about working my way back to the spot i ran from for a few writ mobs.  While i understand the person that began this thread is merely stating he hopes they dont nerf the already sucks low dps of the solo cleric, I think that solo priests should all be given a round of applause.  "Where there is a will, there is a way"</P> <P> </P> <P>Shaedo</P> <P>50 Inquisitor</P> <P>Oggok</P> <P><Nerfed></P>

[Andre]

<DIV>I think they simple pumpup Solo HOs. So for every class beside maches HOs will be an alternative to enright gimped damage.</DIV>

[Daffid011]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ligur1 wrote:<div></div> <div>I didn't make a single assumption. I didn't say that clerics were somewhere other than at the bottom. You infered that I meant we were not at the bottom. I know where we rest as DPS... I have a parser too you know. As for assuming that the dmg output is going down... Morrgaurd himself said that the damage output of inq's was going to be reduced in some post if I am not mistaken (which I sure could be). And I never assumed soloing was over I just said that I hope they thought about it very hard because if they make it harder for me to solo I will be upset.</div> <div> </div> <div>It seems to me that you are the one making all sorts of assumptions... but in any case I still think we should be told who rated us and what rating they gave .</div><hr> I don't run parsers, no real interst in them to be honest.  Yet, you do go a little overboard in "asking" your question.  Read your original post again then ask yourself why  people 1star or like you claim "don't even read your post".  Perhaps it is how you word your ideas and not everyone else. As for wanting to 1star someone just because they rated your topic low is so high school. </blockquote></span><div></div>

[bigmak20]

<div></div>I'm looking forward to the day I can solo a ^^.  I can take some greens; but few.  Named I simply can't.  If I had more power regen... then I think I could absolutely.  Maybe that's why it was nerfed so bad.  And I solo a LOT.  I'm pretty good at it; I think it's simply a matter of gear/regen to take some of those. on edit: i like that idea about bumping up solo HO hit points.  would be a way to help the lower dps classes stay in the solo game without breaking it <p>Message Edited by bigmak2010 on <span class=date_text>07-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:43 AM</span>