Did Sony really compromise on the Mana Regen??

[Ishii]

<DIV> <DIV> </DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>Hmmmm.. Or did they give us a swift kick in the [Removed for Content]? You decide.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG><U>Test Server LU11a</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Sorry but the GEBs and the ROIs focus will no longer stack, even though they are totally different. And we regret to inform you that due to the few high level raid encounters that exist  in the game being reportedly too easy and the fact that we are tired of  making the mobs harder every week for those few players. We have decided to nerf the In-combat Mana Regen  of each item from 20 down to 16 in an attempt to shut them up and make things more challenging.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>>community of subscribers outcry in rage <</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>>Sony is forced to compromise<</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG><U>Live Server Update 11</U></STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV>Items of different focus do stack. The regen rates are as follows:</DIV> <DIV>Golden Efreeti Boots = 5</DIV> <DIV>Robe of the Invoker = 7</DIV> <DIV>Battlement of the Mind Items = 5</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U><FONT color=#ffff00>Comparison</FONT></U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>Test/Live Server Pre-nerf of In-Combat Mana Regen ( GEB + RoI ) = <FONT color=#ffff00>40</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Test Server Update11a In-Combat Mana Regen ( GEB + RoI ) = <FONT color=#ffff00>16</FONT></DIV> <DIV>Live Server Update 11 of In-Combat Mana Regen ( GEB + RoI ) = <FONT color=#ffff00>12</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00><STRONG>Not much of a compromise was it?</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>A better idea would be to establish a stat cap ( as done in EQlive) and let players attain those caps through different gear.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT> </DIV> <DIV>The Reason they  did this change was to make  the miniscule amount of raid content out there more challenging for the few players that have been doing it over and over again  until they can do it in their sleep. What they have really done was cripple the solo and small group player. This game was not designed nor presented as a raid intensive game.</DIV> <DIV> Doubt me?</DIV> <DIV>Look at the staggering amount, the thousands of solo and group oriented quests. Now look at the raid required ones.</DIV> <DIV>Look at the thousands of mobs available to kill in a multitude of well designed zones. Now look at the few raid required mobs.</DIV> <DIV>Sony did not want to exclude and alienate over 80% of it's subscribers that prefer to  quest..solo..and socialize over raiding. This doesn't mean just the casual players , there are millions of players that  log in over 20-30 hours of online time  that don't want to raid, or rather don't want to dedicate every day to raiding.</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>We cried</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>They Nerfed</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>We cried again</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>They compromised</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>But did they really give us what we wanted? </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>( of course not we want it all)</FONT></DIV> <DIV>This game has a lot to offer to  a lot of different players but we need to be careful in WHAT we ask for. And in return, though the squeaky wheel gets the oil and the small raid community  must be largely made up of Ratongas as they are a squeaky bunch, Sony has a responsibilty as to HOW they  answer our requests. </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff00>In this case I think they gave us a sly boot to the buttocks.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[strath]

I agree i think this unformentioned change is worse than the other, i can understand limited power regen, but thier first model changed meant i only had to wear one piece of crappy gear instead of now i have to wear 3 pieces of crappy gear to ge t less power regen total. cuz lets face it, only reason anyone other than a VLA wearer would wear the RoI or geb, is cuz of the power regen, how many plate or chain classes are gonna want to swap 3 pieces of heavy or medium raid gear out just to have the in combat power regen raiding needs now.

[Zemeckis]

Well now you have to use both RoI and GEB's to be 4 points less then the original idea.  I might as well get the 60g from my GEB's and get some different boots.

[dparker7]

I'll trade 2 slots of armor for regen.  Ive always gone oop by the end of a raid fight and was not havign as many issues when I got my prismatic.  Now, I'll be going to camp the rock so that I can replace my stone imbued chest guard as I have less regen now then I did with before i got my prismatic.  Every last ounce of regen is more valuable now and therefore Im willing to trade off the very nice bp I have for those extra 7 points of regen.  I dont really have a choice as its my only way to remain effective on raids as power=damage.  BTW, I play an assassin.

[ProteusTielaxi]

Raids? Ah...so you better invite a few enchanters along...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Zemeckis]

I was referring to the original idea that RoI and GEB"s would both tick 16 instead of 20 and would no longer stack.  Now they tick 12 power together.  I would have like the other way much better then I could get some new boots or a new bp.

[Solaran_X]

<P>I'm glad they reduced the in-combat mana regen. It's ridicilous to see a Wizard/Warlock chain nuking a major raid mob and only being down 10-20% mana at the end because of the insane mana regen.</P> <P>By eliminating that and giving the GEBs and RoI a -REASONABLE- mana regen value, they've also (to a degree) fixed the DPS curve of the Wizards and Warlocks.</P> <P>And I'll rejoice with happiness when SOE puts in a hard cap on mana regen, like in EQLive. Then the Enchanter classes would be used more often, and the value of the "crap" Mana Regen items would go up (anyone remember the so-called "stats" on the Boots of Flowing Slime?),</P>

[Maeldir]

<P>This is all temporary. Things will change once the New Combat System is out. I do hope they add a hard cap like EQ1, and allow us the liberty to decide how we want to hit the cap.</P> <P>Power Regen was a little extreme right now. In raids I can have 3 different type of clarity, bard power regen song, GEBs, regen potions... and spam all my attacks for a while and stay at 90%.</P> <P>The nerf is huge tho. I do not know if guilds can take on the hard encounters now. We tried Darathar tonight and without the Guardian buffs stacking and with lower power regen. He was too hard... healers count keep up with power regen.</P> <p>Message Edited by Maeldir on <span class=date_text>06-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:23 PM</span>

[AnonymeDiscret]

<P>Once again, the raiders think they are the only players in this game.</P> <P>Ever wondered if non-raiding players used the mana-regen items ? They did. Again, devs "fixed" (hum ! hum !) raiding content by nerfing everyone instead of making raid mobs harder. We must all be talking chinese that the devs never understand what we say (over and over) on this subject.</P> <P>By the way, the illusionists/coercers being what they are (not very played classes - because not fun until lvl 45 or so, and then again...), where are we supposed to find some to raid from time to time ?</P> <P>On my server (Storms), out of about 8000 players, there must be something like 20 (twenty) lvl 40+ illusionnist, a good half of them members of top raiding guilds. Don't you see a problem there ?</P> <P>What are we supposed to do ? Level up an illusionist from scratch just to have a mana-battery in raid ? How fun !!! :smileymad:</P>

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AnonymeDiscret wrote:<BR> <P>Once again, the raiders think they are the only players in this game.</P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00><FONT color=#ffffff>Ever wondered if non-raiding players used the mana-regen items ? They did. Again, devs "fixed" (hum ! hum !) raiding content by nerfing everyone instead of making raid mobs harder.</FONT> </FONT>We must all be talking chinese that the devs never understand what we say (over and over) on this subject.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Yes non-raid players used the GEB and / or ROI.  The items where unbalancing for group fights as well as raids.</DIV>

[dparker7]

I go oop with enchanters along.  Its really not hard for me to do as I use my 2 deagro skills each time they pop and evade is ridiculously scaled for power but not threat reduction.

[dnpvendet]

Don't even bother using evade, it's useless, and you are probably wasting your power using surveil everytime it pops too.  The key is to find how much dps you can do while using the minimum ammount of evades.  In fact, on slash resist raid mobs I can spam all the skills that will hit (Lingering Blow, Mask of Night, Punch Blade) and never have to use surveil.  Of course this depends on what upgrade of surveil you have, and what taunt your tank is using.  My suggestion is get adept 3 surveil and ditch the evade, and figure out how to optimize your dps so you get a steady flow instead of going out of power.  If you go OOP before the end of the fight, you are probably wasting power.  Also, if you are trying to regen power during a fight, like you go OOP mid fight, kill Merciless Villiany cause it's proc uses 100 power, regen a few rounds and then throw it back up.  BTW this is directed at the Assassin saying he has power problems.

[Zaxxona]

<DIV>Bumping this post so  more will see and /feedback</DIV>

[Aienaa]

<DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffff>In fact, on slash resist raid mobs I can spam all the skills that will hit (Lingering Blow, Mask of Night, Punch Blade) and never have to use surveil</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's Piercing immune mobs where you have to use these skills...  Condeming Blade and Bloodthirster both do Piercing damage....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#66ffff>Also, if you are trying to regen power during a fight, like you go OOP mid fight, kill Merciless Villiany cause it's proc uses 100 power, regen a few rounds and then throw it back up.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, I don't agree with this line of thinking....  If I get low on power I'll pop off Honed Reflexes (40+% haste) and Murderous Focus (DPS + Piercing skill increaser) and just run in auto attack while I regen, but never would I consider dropping Merciless Villiany which is your main self haste and Agi buff...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gwern - 50 Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Ascending Phoenix - Kithicor</DIV></DIV>

[Quai Chan Ka]

<DIV>I think we're just gonna have to wait and see how things turn out. As it was before power regen was pretty high especially for healers (like myself) who has gebs, manastone, screaming mace, not to mention those who also had RoI and other raid loot that gave combat power regen. If u add that up you have alot of power comin in during the fight so much so that if done right u wouldnt run out of power. If this benefits anyone its those whose classes have built in group power regen buffs, because quite frankly until now i havent really had a need for them. Dont get me wrong i love dirges and chanters their buffs are awesome but perhaps now i might need a dirge and chanter alot more then i did back then. But i think we should wait and see.</DIV>

[dnpvendet]

<div></div>Yes, I meant Piercing immune mobs.  90% of the time i'm over 300 haste, so dropping a 60% haste buff and using a 40% one and a dps buff while i regen power is still a net gain in dps and power.  Blood Scent tends to proc 2-3 times before it should expire and uses 100 power when it procs.  Usually I don't have power problems because if i do more then 320dps i'll pull agro, and it's very easy to hit that with 300 haste and dual wielding weapons with 12% proc rates + poisons.  Before I had agro problems, i could still maintain my dps while dropping merciless villainy, not to mention the way we set up our dps groups i could probably hit my agro limit without using mericiless villiany at all and still have 300+ str and agi.  I keep the mini-monitor for combat stats up all the time so that i know what my maintained DPS is durring a fight so I can constantly manage my power, dps, and agro.  If i didin't it would result in certain riposte death for me, or another dps, or at miniumum i would have to flip the mob and turn of attack, meaning a huge loss in over all raid DPS. <div></div><p>Message Edited by dnpvendetta on <span class=date_text>07-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:36 PM</span>

[Feaw]

<DIV>I think it was a compromise for the value of the RoI on the market rather than its actual use in game.   It sure would have been better for the average player if they had stuck with 16 regen / no stack but the price of the RoI on the market would have dropped significantly.   This way we get a nasty nerf but the value of the robe (because of the need created by less power regen) might even go up rather than down.  Sense the GEB is a heratige quest anyone who has access to a few good groups in a guild  and has access to a good group and group invis can get them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So the nerf helped the players who have access to all 3 items but maybe at the expense of the rest of us who dont.   I personally dont think being able to sell the RoI for 20+pp in game is a balance variable that helps the game but thats just me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by Feawin on <SPAN class=date_text>07-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:49 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Feawin on <span class=date_text>07-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:50 AM</span>

[OperationsX]

<P>They already did compromise on it....</P> <P>They didn't nerf it completely and make the two items non-stackable :smileytongue:</P>

[Gyilok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR> <P>They already did compromise on it....</P> <P>They didn't nerf it completely and make the two items non-stackable :smileytongue:</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>they did nerf mana regen completely, actually to worthless, with a RoI, GEB, and  BotM item stacked you got less regen than you had from GEB alone before, and this wiht the boost on epics can make things [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] frustrating

[IpseDix]

<P><FONT size=2>Time for you all to realize that enchanters are a needed/welcome class; maybe someone of you, TankHealerWizzy-easy mode players will roll an underpowered, unfriendly, unpleasant, very annoing, hard to play Illusionist :smileywink:</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>GeB, RoI, and all other power-regen items had to be toned down (/yes  /yes)</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>There is a class in this game with a <FONT color=#ffff00>unique</FONT> ability: a good <U>power regeneration</U>. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>It's time to invite them in your raids, it's time to break the Holy (Guardian-Templar-Wizard) trinity !!</FONT></P>

[Gyilok]

<P>we always were trying to have chanters in raid, more than 1 if possible, and I think noone was telling them to sit out</P> <P>their regen was a big boost to the effectiveness of the raid force and it became essential now</P>