Whats going on?

[Zemeckis]

<DIV>Is SOE tired of keeping this game up so they're trying to get everyone to quit?  The last 2 updates have been the most ridiculous things I've seen in a long time.  Not even listening to class balance issues in other forums and ignoring bugs.   Now RoI and GEB's don't stack which is stupid.  Scouts need to be fixed, healers need to be balanced and so many things need to be fixed before adding new content that no one really cares about.  All I know is this update I'll be able to take 360 degree pics of my toon!!  Don't care that my ranger is sub-par compared to assassins if I can take a 360 degree pic.</DIV>

[Walnu]

The flowing thought nerf was necessary in my opinion. <div></div>

[Orki who Pos]

<P>I fully support that a flowing thought nerf was needed, there is simply too much mana regeneration in the game.</P> <P> </P> <P>It was done in the worst possible way thou, making two specific uncorrelated items, no longer stack.</P> <P> </P> <P>If you want to nerf mana regeneration, do so fairly, ie: nerf all regeneration items to half effect and be done with it, or reduce the effect of specific items.</P> <P>Don't suddenly prevent specific items from stacking, out of nowhere.</P>

[Beghard]

<P>As far as the issue with the non stacking of the boots and the robe it is a pain.</P> <P>In the other thread however someone mentioned that perhaps this was done because another mana regen item will be craeted. The thread later whent into how they should NOT introduce any more mana regen items, well, they should. When the Expansion comes out and people hit lvl 60 NO ONE will want to be waring that stupid ugly robe, its already blue at 50 but the boots are even con.</P>

[Blackguard]

<p class="MsoNormal">As far as class balancing and fixes are concerned, those are all going to happen as part of the combat changes. We can't roll out the spell changes before the rest of the combat changes are done, but we are working on it. We have several members of our mechanics team (part of design) working on the combat changes full-time, as they have been for quite a while now. When will you see these changes? As soon as they are ready. I think you will be very happy when they do go live, but I ask that you exercise patience while we get them working how we want them.</p>

[Korza]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Orki who Posts wrote <P>If you want to nerf mana regeneration, do so fairly, ie: nerf all regeneration items to half effect and be done with it, or reduce the effect of specific items.</P> <P>Don't suddenly prevent specific items from stacking, out of nowhere.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>They can't nerf everything by half. As there are potions that only give back 1 mana and then 1 mana every 5sec. Halving that would really make an already useless item even more useless. Not that the tier potions above that are much better...But lets not hammer the alchemists anymore then we have already. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Nacire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P>As far as class balancing and fixes are concerned, those are all going to happen as part of the combat changes. We can't roll out the spell changes before the rest of the combat changes are done, but we are working on it. We have several members of our mechanics team (part of design) working on the combat changes full-time, as they have been for quite a while now. When will you see these changes? As soon as they are ready. I think you will be very happy when they do go live, but I ask that you exercise patience while we get them working how we want them.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I know your team all want these changes to go in at the same time in order to preserve balance and whatnot, really I can see the point there.  However I do have to point out as I've seen several dev posts saying that you are SURE we'll be happy with the changes when they go live, that's not very likely.  Not just because (though it is true) tons will complain about ANY change, but by doing all this at once we are getting a TOTALLY different game, long after learning, and in most cases growing to love this one.  If we all log in one day and these changes are now live even if you faithfully document every change in the update notes, and we are willing to scroll that tiny window through all 100 or so screens of changes and read them all, we are never gonna retain all that info.  Then when we are ingame it's not infront of us to refer back to.  So other than the few that play on test and a live server we'll all be one confused bunch trying to figure out the new systems and get back to enjoying a game, not the same game by any means, but the one we will have at the time.  I'm sure other examples exist, but go check out SWG forums, then take a look at their subscription numbers around time their "combat upgrade" happend.  Massive changes on the level you are going for here, and they killed the game.  I still have friends stubborn enough to play on several servers, and only now are populations starting to climb again, but now it's rare for them to find a person that played before those changes.  Yes new players have it better, they had nothing to unlearn, their tutorials covered the new system, all the vets however were (and will be here) messed up royally.  No matter how GOOD the changes are, anything this massive can not possibly be liked by any significant segment of players.  Going forward for the few that stay and do learn the ins/outs of the new system we may have more fun, but by not doing this in segments that will be a long time coming even after this stuff does eventually happen.

[Mishkel]

<P>Pulling out one point in a previous post...</P> <P>"I'm sure other examples exist, but go check out SWG forums, then take a look at their subscription numbers around time their "combat upgrade" happend. "</P> <P>This example the poster gives would be exactly why I would not agree with them.  Star Wars Galaxies decided to push out a combat "balance" whether it was ready or not.  It had to be in place before their expansion which was tied with Episode 3.  The overwhelming feedback from test server was that the rebalance was not ready.</P> <P>The other major problem there is/was... The devs kept saying they were receiving mostly positive feedback.  No one who was on test server knew anyone who was positive about.  Thus players had to speculate that SOE was lying to the press to try and bring in new players with EP3.  Also statements by SOE saying they have as many SWG subscribers now as before the patch.  Anyone who played the game in the months before their Combat Upgrade also knows this is not even close to being true.</P> <P> </P> <P>The fact that the combat balance is being held off in EQ until the Devs here "feel that it is ready" is a very good thing.  </P> <P>I'm also not aware of any single class that is not saying they have class issues.  This is a prime reason to give them the time they need. </P> <P>I can always hope that given time they give us the majority of what we need to enjoy the game.  Rather than that mess at SWG which is in fact a prime example of... Why we should be patient and so should they.</P> <P> </P>

[Aegori]

<DIV>The biggest problem i think we see here is the fact that sooo much is tied to the combat changes and we're getting very little results as of late due to that fact. Class balance, spell fixes, spell scaling, end game difficulty, etc.... basically all the hot topics surrounding the game are tied to these changes. That's why we're so concerned and that's why we want lots of communication regarding these changes. I trust the devs wholeheartedly to make changes that benefit that game (change and nerf alike), and i appreciate all the feedback i've read from Fan Faire regarding the changes... but it's simply too little sometimes. You're changing some basic fundamentals of the game and while i understand you not giving us a timeline, we really need something to keep us updated. We haven't seen a change to test regarding the combat changes in weeks, so of course people are getting a little uptight and want to know how things are coming. The past live update offered us some interesting new features, but very little was done in terms of anything spectacularly new. Here's why you're going to continue in this rut until we push out these changes SOE:</DIV> <UL> <LI>You can add all the content in the world, but the same general game afflictions will still affect the game. The Splitpaw Saga will give us new zones and new raids, but i'm sure we'll be offered the same rediculous itemization and risk vs. reward (something i read that can be addressed more readily AFTER the combat updates). In other words, all the content in the world isnt going to change a thing besides keeping people occupied with new scenery for a day or two.</LI> <LI>Characters feel the need to constantly progress in a game like EQ2. That's what many are here for. Once you hit 50, you simply cannot do it, or do so VERY slowly. End game itemization (risk vs reward) had killed many's hopes, and the fact that there haven't been any siginificant changes to broken skills/spells for classes, especially in the area of class defining skills, has dampened hopes even further. </LI> <LI>Every live update you give us, while interesting in features, simply wears on the patience of some community members. I'm sure 99.5% of us are looking forward to the combat changes, but it's simply happening too slowly to keep people interested. The new features are great, IMHO, but new features on top of a fundamentally flawed system doesn't quell any inner fires for people that are passionate about getting things working right.</LI></UL> <P>All of this, of course, boils down to an understanding of "this is how MMOs work" and patience, but honestly SOE, this is why many times the community gives you the rep of "SOE doesn't care about their customers". People simply feel like you're sticking them with a $20 a month bill to play something that is findamentally flawed and we have no idea how soon we're going to see updates that will fix these flaws. IMHO, you did botch this one big in that you released a game with a system that wasnt well tested in many respects (but i understand why they werent). You want your customers to remain loyal, say that. Then compensate us. Something like "boy, we haven't been able to get these necessary changes out the door and we haven't been able to fix many class problems lately... here's a free month"... I'm not here to lobby for free time, i'm here to honestly be constructive as possible. This is simply how i would run my business if i were SOE.</P> <P>-Aeg</P>

[Signal9]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P>As far as class balancing and fixes are concerned, those are all going to happen as part of the combat changes. We can't roll out the spell changes before the rest of the combat changes are done, but we are working on it. We have several members of our mechanics team (part of design) working on the combat changes full-time, as they have been for quite a while now. When will you see these changes? As soon as they are ready. I think you will be very happy when they do go live, but I ask that you exercise patience while we get them working how we want them.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I hesitate to ask, but after the short time we've been waiting for this balancing, can we get an ETA on 'working how we want them'?

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV>>I hesitate to ask, but after the short time we've been waiting for this balancing, can we get an ETA on 'working how we want them'?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>There is an "unofficial" ETA actually, it will be out about 14 days before the expansion.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>This is done so the promotion material can include "experience an all-new combat system" and "more than 500 new spells" and so on.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>There would be no point of moving it to the live servers before then, and loose out on the marketing potential, it's business after all.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Keep in mind that the reasonable goal is to have the maximal amount of people buy the expansion.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>When doing a massive rewamp like this, alot of people will percieve that they have been nerfed, and quit within one or two months. It is vital for the game that they have bought the expansion first.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>It's not the answer you want, but it's the same answer you got 4 months ago.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>(and no, that wont be an "official" answer, since it would annoy too many people.)</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Shade]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P>As far as class balancing and fixes are concerned, those are all going to happen as part of the combat changes. We can't roll out the spell changes before the rest of the combat changes are done, but we are working on it. We have several members of our mechanics team (part of design) working on the combat changes full-time, as they have been for quite a while now. When will you see these changes? As soon as they are ready. I think you will be very happy when they do go live, but I ask that you exercise patience while we get them working how we want them.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Absolutely no offence intended here but does no one see any sort of resemblence here to Combat Revamp in SWG ??? LOL I mean how long can you just sit back and say...</P> <P>"yes we know there are issues with classes and these things will be addressed, we're working on it and you will be very happy when you see it"</P> <DIV>I mean, my lord, this is almost verbadim what was spouted for what ?A year over in the SWG froums, ok it eventually happened (regardless of what you think about it) but I would think that this developement team would learn something from this and try to improve upon a failed excersize. I'm sure we can make this really easy for you, here's what most players want.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Post an article in regards to the combat revamp and include.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) The core idea behind Combat Revamp</DIV> <DIV>2) What plans are for every single class</DIV> <DIV>3) How in your overall view you think this will affect the game</DIV> <DIV>4) Don't set anything in stone but promise us that you will keep us informed of changes and the reason behind them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's it, voila. You open up communication in one foul swoop and you aleviate a great percentage of players fears and uneasiness. It's really not that hard. Yes I know it will add a considerable amount of annoyance to your day but I think we deserve at least this. Just try to stay with your playerbase, we are willing to stick this game regardless of every single issue, at the very least return the kindness and show us what your planning to do with our game !</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's just so frustrating to think of why the EQ2 team wouldn't do this in the first place, all we want (or at least myself and the people I speak with directly on a day to day basis) is to be shown the same dedication we show to EQ2.</DIV>

[ClaudiustheG]

<P>Yeah, I have to agree.  The failure to post any specifics, even broad generalizations, inevitably leads to the conclusion that not much has really been accomplished.  I'm just thinking that if my boss asked me about a report I hadn't started yet, my answer would be "Well, its coming along great - I don't want to go into specifics right now, but you'll be really happy when you see it".</P> <P>Claudius</P>

[roarfrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Blackguard wrote:<BR> <P>As far as class balancing and fixes are concerned, those are all going to happen as part of the combat changes. We can't roll out the spell changes before the rest of the combat changes are done, but we are working on it.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>After reading that, all I can say is "Yikes". Comments like these give me severe SWG flashbacks. Will SOE troll us along for a year here too with promises of a combat revamp that will magically fix everything?</P> <P> </P>

[Ashlian]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ClaudiustheGod wrote:<BR> <P>Yeah, I have to agree.  The failure to post any specifics, even broad generalizations, inevitably leads to the conclusion that not much has really been accomplished.  I'm just thinking that if my boss asked me about a report I hadn't started yet, my answer would be "Well, its coming along great - I don't want to go into specifics right now, but you'll be really happy when you see it".<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes, it's the "even broad generalizations" part that I think most of us would settle for at this point. I tend to think it's more like an artist who will be showing at a gallery. Two days before the gallery is supposed to hold his opening, the gallery is empty except for a couple of sketches, but he's in the studio, frantically slapping more paint on the canvas. The night of the opening, still only sketches, but he tells the gallery owner, my work will be SO MUCH better, my masterpiece! Show everyone the sketches, they'll just know it will be great. Just give me a couple more days. With much misgiving, the owner opens the doors and lets people take a look at the sketches.....and they can't wait to see the finished products.</P> <P>Days stretch into weeks, stretch into months, and you know what? The gallery owner is now showing another artist, and isn't sure when, if ever, he would book a show by the original artist again. Perhaps if the original artist had said, I know it's a pain, but I can have this totally done within the next two months, the show could have been rescheduled. But now, some other artist is the next big thing and the original guy is left showing his art to his friends.</P> <P>It's not the decision to make changes that drives people nuts, it's the insistence on never informing us of when the artist will have his finished work hanging in the gallery. You cannot tell me there aren't internal timetables, and even confirmation that it was coming a couple of weeks before the expansion would be a step in the right direction. "It's coming when it's done" is a copout, and in RL the gallery owner would have been likely to sue the artist for breach of contract. I understand why that's not a viable option here, and I'm not suggesting it, just saying that other business endeavors, even artistic ones, manage to stick to deadlines, and make those deadlines available to their customers.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 39 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Nacire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mishkel wrote:<BR> <P>Pulling out one point in a previous post...</P> <P>"I'm sure other examples exist, but go check out SWG forums, then take a look at their subscription numbers around time their "combat upgrade" happend. "</P> <P>This example the poster gives would be exactly why I would not agree with them.  Star Wars Galaxies decided to push out a combat "balance" whether it was ready or not.  It had to be in place before their expansion which was tied with Episode 3.  The overwhelming feedback from test server was that the rebalance was not ready.</P> <P>The other major problem there is/was... The devs kept saying they were receiving mostly positive feedback.  No one who was on test server knew anyone who was positive about.  Thus players had to speculate that SOE was lying to the press to try and bring in new players with EP3.  Also statements by SOE saying they have as many SWG subscribers now as before the patch.  Anyone who played the game in the months before their Combat Upgrade also knows this is not even close to being true.</P> <P> </P> <P>The fact that the combat balance is being held off in EQ until the Devs here "feel that it is ready" is a very good thing.  </P> <P>I'm also not aware of any single class that is not saying they have class issues.  This is a prime reason to give them the time they need. </P> <P>I can always hope that given time they give us the majority of what we need to enjoy the game.  Rather than that mess at SWG which is in fact a prime example of... Why we should be patient and so should they.</P> <P> </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You missed the point of my post entirely.  People didn't leave SWG from bugs in the comat upgrade, they left becaues in one fell swoop it was a totally different game.  EVERY system changed all at once and very few are still around that had gotten used to the old system.  This is what we are facing here as well.

[Ishnar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nacireen wrote:<BR><BR>You missed the point of my post entirely.  People didn't leave SWG from bugs in the comat upgrade, they left becaues in one fell swoop it was a totally different game.  EVERY system changed all at once and very few are still around that had gotten used to the old system.  This is what we are facing here as well. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>This is, unfortunatly, the reason I have to discourage my friends-- who show an interest-- from buying the game.  I don't want them to have the game turn upside down weeks after they start playing.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ishnar</DIV>

[EtoilePirate]

<span><blockquote><hr>ClaudiustheGod wrote:<p>Yeah, I have to agree.  The failure to post any specifics, even broad generalizations, inevitably leads to the conclusion that not much has really been accomplished.  I'm just thinking that if my boss asked me about a report I hadn't started yet, my answer would be "Well, its coming along great - I don't want to go into specifics right now, but you'll be really happy when you see it".</p> <p>Claudius</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> You might remember that three MAJOR combat changes were placed on Test, and then deactivated until the fourth was ready because at that stage we literally couldn't play.  (Mobs were nuking for thousands of points of damage, and players weren't -- it was a thorny couple of days.)  So it's not like they're sitting spinning on their thumbs; it's that it's happening in pieces and they've discovered they need more of the pieces at once.</span><div></div>

[NUKER 1]

<P>blackguard your reply says nothing about the roi and geb change? try and explain how this new nerf is fair to a person that just spent there total saving on a roi that your making worthless? i'd like you to try and explain how that is fair after so much saving and work?</P> <P> </P>