Robe and GEBs no longer stack. Are you kidding me?

[DevinK]

<DIV>We sat there, planting our rears on the ground, wasting hours, days, weeks of our lives just waiting for that god-forsaken rock, because we knew it's power. We knew it was worth it. And hey, some of us got it on the quick-respawn before all the devs got it on their chars (and proceeded to change the spawn to an exaggerated time,) some of us.... didn't. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GEBs are VERY easy to get. And if you can't, it's because your server is so underpopulated from other game-leaving changes that you can't get the 12 compatible people together for the Mag. It takes considerably less time to get, and it's required level is but 2 higher. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll say it right now, and I'm sure you've already come to the conclusion yourself.... I do <STRONG>NOT</STRONG> care if you think I'm a whiny s.o.b. This is just ridiculous. If you didn't want them to stack, you should put it that way in the beginning. It's called foresight. You're developers of a leading MMORPG, it's <STRONG>not</STRONG> that hard. The robe was a key item in the game, and if you didn't know that before you put it in you should be fired. All you had to do was just think for one single day.... "Hmm, how will this effect the game."       Before you go ahead and lead people for months into a psychotic trap of a rock or a 1/1000 chest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You're sadistic, and you're not even doing it in the good way. The way that makes me think you'll never hurt me again, and that it's still okay to cuddle afterwards and share feelings. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jowy - Guk     </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>                                                 -I just want a legitimate excuse for wearing a robe. </DIV>

[Marillion]

I dont have the robe, but even i think this is just stupid. It might help, if dirge and troub mana regen was at least some use. Next they will be saying GEB's and Prismatic's dont stack. Jeez. Pure, <div></div>

[MaxLi]

This was a good change for the longevity of the game and items.  Multiple items that have the same effect (yes, they have differing names, but Power Regen is the same no matter the name) should not stack.  You should get the best of the same effect of all items not the sum of.  Instead of wearing GEBs and RoI for the rest of your EQ2 career, you now have reasons to wear other items that help in other ways - seek upgrades.  Enchanters may also be more 'needed' (as if they weren't already) on raids. Lastly, has anyone considered that there may be more Power Regen items sneaking into the game now?  (As if caster loot ever drops anyway.)  =P <div></div>

[DevinK]

<DIV>I wish I could agree with you on everything, Max, but I can't. If they took it out I highly doubt other power regen items are coming in at all.. And I swear to god, if they put in a new one, I'm going to flip out (even more.) </DIV>

[MaxLi]

<div></div>The took out the stacking, not the item.  If the RoI does 16 (now) and you get a robe that does 24, wouldn't you be happier with 8 more? (Edit:  Stupid typeos) <div></div><p>Message Edited by MaxLiao on <span class=date_text>06-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:58 PM</span>

[DevinK]

<DIV>I don't mind the scale down... It's the stacking... What else are people supposed to waste their time or money on, now?</DIV>

[MaxLi]

Resistances ... Int / Wis ... Pretty Colors ... the vain hope that they added 'other' raid-drop items that have the ability?  I don't know. I can understand the pain, don't get me wrong here.  BUt it is my beliefe that in the long term this will be a beneficial move.  Maybe us casters will wear more items that RoI and GEBs everywhere.  <blows the dust off the ol' J-Boots>  Wow!  I think these'll get some use again. <div></div>

[Neric]

<P>I am understand if they had the same effect, but they have TWO different effects on them, I paid 8pp for the robe and they nerf it.</P> <P>Why the hell do they keep changing EVERTHING.</P> <P>Change it so buffs on the same type do not stack, but not this!</P>

[DevinK]

<DIV>To hope for long term improvements from this scar is to hope the game continues more than another year.</DIV>

[Neric]

<DIV>I know people with 5 or more armor pieces each with fortitude of the mind on them, EACH of them stack which makes NO sense as they are the same effect on each, but instead of changing them, they nerf theses? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What are they smoking and where can I get some</DIV>

[MaxLi]

It doesn't matter that they have different names, power regen = power regen.  It's only the power regen part that's not stacking, correct?  Everything else is?  I dunno, that seems to make sense to me. Correct me if I'm wrong.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[DevinK]

You're missing the point. It's not about the balance of the game, it's about how royally screwed over people got by this being changed so long after released.

[Talonis]

<span><blockquote><hr>DevinK wrote:<div></div>You're missing the point. It's not about the balance of the game, it's about how royally screwed over people got by this being changed so long after released.<hr></blockquote>So using that train of thought, they should put the 10 minute timer back on the rock...</span><div></div>

[Neric]

<P>So are they going to next nerf ALL items that give mana regen so you can only have one? Or just the commont ones like theses two? Do I bother to buy any armor with fortitude of the mind or finish my weapon of the shard?</P>

[DevinK]

<DIV>I'm sorry, but I don't see how that "train of thought" connects to that absurdity you suggested.</DIV>

[Talonis]

<span><blockquote><hr>DevinK wrote:<div>I'm sorry, but I don't see how that "train of thought" connects to that absurdity you suggested.</div><hr></blockquote>You are saying it's too long after release to make this change >>>> therefore it should NOT be changed. I am simply stating that it was too long after release to "royally screw" those that didn't get the robe off of the 10 minute rock timer >>>> therefore it should still be on the 10 minute timer. You want your cake and eat it too. I just want a reasonable chance to get a piece. I believe this is directly in response to the fact they refuse to make one of a hundred OTHER simple changes to the robe quest starter. It would seem the robe just got a little less appealing. Mission accomplished it would seem for now.</span><div></div>

[Ellywen]

<DIV>Why pick on ROI and GEB wearers?  Why not include Ring of the Nightblood, or the other items?  Are you saying these items are too easy to get?  I wouldn't call leveling from 37 to 42 in the same spot killing the same mobs... or watching the ground for 100+ doing shifts with someone in hope of a rock *easy*.  I would call it mind numbing.  It drives many people nuts.  Now you're saying that anyone who can go on a pickup GEB run (which i did myself in a FEW HOURS, and QUITE EASILY - and no, I am not in a major raiding guild) will have their items overwrite this?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BS.  Absolute BS.  The only people I hear cheering about this are the ones who cried about not being able to get the ROI cause they are a) too high to kill the mobs b) dont have the time to camp anything in general.  I empathized with these people, seeing as I know how hard it was to get this item - suggested putting it on mobs in EF, LS, whatever. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, you guys talk about overpowering mana regen with these items?  Then nerf Ring of the Nightblood and allllll the rest of them.  Don't leave out those and kill what items any "casual player" can spend time getting.  Equal opportunity nerfage, please - or don't bother at all.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Ellywen on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:50 AM</span>

[DevinK]

<DIV>The point of the matter is. They don't know how to make anything work the first time, and then wait forever to change it, even if it's simple.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Epee of the HateBringer is no longer no rent? That item sucked, so I KNOW that wasn't on purpose. Why the ____ did it take them like 6 months to fix THAT? Seriously.</DIV>

[Neric]

<DIV>There are very few Very light armor items in the game worth getting, there is just nothing for us casters, and now two items which we all try to get cause they ARE worth bothering to get, they are going to nerf.</DIV> <DIV>And they wonder why everyone is leaving. BTW the game GUILDWARS rocks and no monthly fee!</DIV>

[DevinK]

<DIV>They really need to go back to the old system of class based armor requirements. But that's another topic.</DIV>

[Abazagorath]

<DIV>Yeah, this is pretty rank.  I can *MAYBE* understand the idea to remove stacking for effects of the same name (Battlement of the Mind for example).  But these are two different names for regen and should not cancel each other out.  It seems silly to me that two differently named effects cancel, yet you can have 5 BotM running at full speed.  This is yet another in a long line of nerfs that makes this game a freaking joke.  Where the hell is class balancing that should have been done (and was promised) months ago?  You can't say that a different department is responsible now.  This really just feels like a test to see how much you can [Removed for Content] off your customers before they leave.</DIV>

[Talonis]

<span><blockquote><hr>DevinK wrote:<div>They really need to go back to the old system of class based armor requirements. But that's another topic.</div><hr></blockquote>That would have been a MUCH better change than this one. I whole-heartedly agree with you.</span><div></div>

[Daerov]

<DIV>This is stupid in my opinion... this really makes me mad heh. I got my robe the easy way, a friend got the drop while soloing in Feerrott... but I'm telling you people who have just spent 15-20 pp on this item or hunted for weeks and even months and now they find out their efforts were in vain? Something should of been done to fix this like the rock never popping again but it did... It seems like this is an easy way to get out of the constant complaints from people not being able to get it... I understand the complaints I guess but this is just a poor way to handle it. NO one is going to wear the robe when they can wear Golden Efreeti Boots especially casters. Looks like I'm going to have to look forward to the Ancient Rallosian Gown dropping cause there are better robes but not necessarily boots unless you count something rare like velvet if those exist in boots...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What's next nerf the magic carpet/spirt steed from 60 pp to 15-20 pp and obliterate everyone's hard work there too?... Just frustrates me.</DIV>

[Mild und Lei]

the real problem with the RoI is that it has made eq2 a completely boring game for a lot of people.  there have been many many posts about the RoI and people have fought over it for a long time, the devs just took forever to make a change.  i agree, they should have made this change the FIRST time when they nerfed the rock, instead of making it uber rare so people will buy it for 10 plat+, that's what made this change so hard.  had they changed it like this then, people wouldn't have spent so much money on it and it wouldn't have been such a big deal (since it was so easy back then). i agree, the change is untimely and i believe soe did a poor job on handling it overall, but i think that the change needed to be implemented, as the robe was obviously overpowered (everyone uses it) and it caused many people to go crazy camping it. <div></div>

[Sever]

My question...Do you even realize how much RoI trivialized EVERY other robe in the game? There was no comparison, and now there is. Thats that, if you take any master robe that dropped yesterday and compared it to RoI, most would pick RoI. Tomorrow, they will more than likely pick the master robe, why? Because it is better. That is something called BALANCE. I don't give a flying [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] how long it took sony to get their heads out of their [Removed for Content] and fix it. But they did, and im with them on this. RoI was overpowered, so get over it. I for one have been somewhat worried by the sheer amount of power regen items in the game, and hope they do indeed put in further stacking restrictions to help. Btw, I'm an Enchanter, yes, and Enchanter, and what is my sole purpose to many people? Many would say Power Regen, whether they are right or wrong, thats that. If my only use to many people is to have my class become trivialized by a game that has all power regen items stack, then I would be looking for a new job around expansion time. Then again, what they are doing is called balance.  Lets see, a Master1 lvl47 power regen does 60 power p/tick. Take RoI (20 p/tick), Geb's (20 p/tick), RoN (16 p/tick?), Prismatic (12 p/tick) and one of the multitude of other items with power regen in the game, whether it be Extraplanar Girdle, Runed Combine Talisman, Tablet of the Cryptkeeper, Band of Shimmering Spirits, or one of the armor type specific items out there with power regen, and I am sorely outnumbered with my mere 60 power p/tick. Are you getting my point? Perhaps a new perspective for you as well. I don't want to be declined xp groups when I begin to xp again because of things like...we can stay full power without you, we have an actual dps class that would be much more useful to the group than you. Anyway, just wanted to post my thoughts on the matter, carry on. <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=136679110" target=_blank>Saden</a> 50 Illusionist Officer of <a href="http://www.eq2genesis.com/" target=_blank>Genesis</a> Highkeep *** /join highkeep.illusionistworld *** The place where the Illusionist hangs out! <div></div>

[Telbain]

<font color="#cc00ff">Quite honestly Sever is right. I knew sooner or later they would nerf one of these items.</font><font color="#cc00ff"> </font><font color="#cc00ff"> </font><font color="#cc00ff">The fundamental problem with the robe (despite how hard it is to get) is that it trivalizes almost all chest slot loots. You can see even heavy class people wearing it instead of their intended armor.</font><font color="#cc00ff"> </font><font color="#cc00ff"> </font><font color="#cc00ff">Regardless, mana regen can be a little out of hand for guilds capable of raiding and this is the first step to reigning it in. This way the entire game to come won't have to be balanced around the robe.</font><font color="#cc00ff"> </font><font color="#cc00ff"> </font><font color="#cc00ff">Ferrel</font> <div></div>

[Armill]

Aye, it will make raiding harder, but hey, a challenge is always good. But yeah, it is kinda wack when you see half of the high level people wearing armor they shouldn't be. I'm a scout I should wear medium armor because I  can but I'll wear a robe because it gives me more power. It doesn't make sense....*and the dark shadowy assassin creeps through the shadows wearing his dress, waiting for his next kill.*

[Burnout]

<P>you want the robe stack with boots? get the cryptic boots... oh wait - they're fabled & hard to get. bah - that means a rare fabled item starts to make sense besides those efre boots...</P> <P>i think it's a nasty - but ok change. those people with access to fabled items like cryptic boots or extraplanar girdle now get a real fabled item for theire invested time. sorry, those efre boots have been ages to powerfull for only beeing a heritage item. i don't see this change as a nerf of the robe - more a nerf of those boots....</P> <P> </P>

[Dae]

This is a pretty brutal change but also a sensible one. The robe is/was stupid. This kind of change should have gone in months ago. As it stands this is a pretty big kick in the teeth to anyone who played stump watch or paid out of the nose for one. <div></div>

[Mage-Apprentice]

<P>I do indeed totaly agree with sever.</P> <P>Not evry chanter has a master 1 "breeze" spell, the average has ad1, and when you only need geb, roi and a pris (or that nightbloodring iso pris), than only than there is something wrong, you more regen than the chanter can give.</P> <P> </P> <P>If evry non-vla wearer wants to wear this robe because now they don't need a chanter anymore (in groups/raids) it needs to be nerfed.</P> <P> </P> <P>If you really thought it would've never been nerfed, and couldn't see it was overpowerd, I feel sorry that you have paid so much plat for it.</P> <P> </P> <P>I know they coud've handled this a different way, like make it out of combat only regen, but still stackable, that only the best regen item works (so even the pris/nightblood effect didn't work), nerf the regen to +10 for roi/geb and +6 for pris/nightblood but keep the stacking effect. or even a dozen other ways.</P> <P>No, they only chooiced to "balance" the geb/roi.</P> <P>Get the ring and pris as well and you still have near 40 regen, what is around app1 clarety (wow you still have a good breeze "free" right now!)</P> <P> </P> <P>They took their first rightfull step in the right direction, expect more. (this includes also other overpowerd stuff beside manaregen)</P>

[Mondwaecht]

<div></div>the problem is known...we just regenerate to much mana...mana supply chars are not needed in guilds with decent gear the solution taken right now is so bad it makes me sad. Better soution would be: -change all manareg items to maxreg 10mana/tic (most items to around 5/tic). -dont allow in combat manareg on other items then we already have (I know of Robe, Ring, Boots, Weapon) <div></div><p>Message Edited by Mondwaechter on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:07 PM</span>

[Jan It]

Hmmm, I don´t like the change because it´s simply not fair. Treat all regenerating items equally, that´s what players want to see. As I´m unguilded I´ll never get any other regenerating items than the boots and the robe. If it´s too much, ok, nerf it, but don´t make it unstackable. It´s as so often, the designers seem to only think in black and white and suffer from a serious lack of creativity. You want to reduce regeneration? Fine, do it, but don´t make the best powers of one item utterly useless. Is it too difficult to write two more lines of code and make it work like full regeneration on the most powerfull item and only like 50% on all additional regenerating items? That´s the way to ensure people are having fun, because they feel rewarded for their gaming time. I actually have a RoI, but don´t have the boots yet. If I someday finally get them it´ll be like.....ah well, quest done, and got a pair of boots that I´m not going to wear. Bummer. Final thought: They are probably unstacking the items to save players from days of grind, because of all those people that feel like the robe is a "must have", which actually is not true. <div></div>

[AnonymeDiscret]

<P>They will never learn : they nerfed the players AGAIN instead of making raid targets harder.</P> <P>Us, starting-to-raid guilds were pretty happy to have the GEB of course and that a (very) few of our members got the RoI, it helped us making the first (easiest) raid targets doable. Now they nerferd these 2 items in 2 ways : the power-regen lessened and the not stacking thing.</P> <P>Oh, sure, the uber guilds, the "we-shot-Darathar-20-times-in-3-months" won't be bothered by these nerfs because they have many power-regen items already.</P> <P>Who dare to say they were making this game more friendly to the new customers ?</P> <P> </P> <P>ps : instead of speaking of the "long-term" every time the devs nerf something to crap, you should wonder if the game will still be alive in the medium-term with so few new players coming in and the devs inexplicable persecution of players already there.</P><p>Message Edited by AnonymeDiscret on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:32 AM</span>

[Bi]

my troubadour gives 16/tick. Regardless of people in my party wearing geb, and roi on raids, I have that up because they DO run out of power. SIXTEEN per tick. Nevertheless I am not whining because one of my skills isnt as effective due to some hardcore effort on behalf of the players in my guild. A chanter is for utility, not power regen solely.. much like a troubadour isnt purely for power regen (that ours bites and is barely worth casting is a different story) I can't believe that they are actually considering bringing in his nerf.. I think it totally trivialises a lot of peoples hard work, and on my server (currently 10 people in EL) this is like a death knell to me. lower mitigation if you must, or decrease the power regen slightly, or scale the regen on geb... I am not sure what other route to take, but if this goes live it will *definitely* annoy me greatly. <div></div>

[warrior]

Nerfing the Robe of Invoker sucks. Extremely.100% Agree to the OP.Out of all stupid changes and nerfes, this one again shows SOE's way of "thinking" (or of not thinking at all).

[Voryn]

I'm angry at them for even thinking about screwing so many people over like this. That  robe took a LONG time to get, unless you were a luckyducky. They're basically just beating everyone who ever strived to get it with a bat, it's sickening.. Why NERF ONLY those two? Why not nerf them all!? That'll please those chanters! And [Removed for Content] on everyone who worked to get the item's face! Really now SOE, since you're so bent on this, you know, after leaving it like it is for so long.. Are you going to make it sell to a merchant for 20plat? What are we, who had such a damned hard time getting it, getting to compensate for your lack of judgement? WHY make an item so rare, for so long, and then ruin it? Could you have told us when you made it this rare that you'd be doing this? Seriously, you better be scheming up SOMETHING to make up for this item travesty. <div></div>

[Scai]

Well since posted test notes are as good as written in stone, I just wanna say thanks for wasting my time.

[Orki who Pos]

<P><FONT size=3>Amazing..</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>I had expected the robe to be toned down, and the boots to be toned down, not ruined like this.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>Please make both 8 mana/tick, instead of making items with DIFFERENT effects not stack.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>Oh.. and nice touch leaving rings, prismatics and such alone for now.. do we bother getting those, or should we expect them soon not to stack either?</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933 size=4>Should i expect the HP from my hat not to stack with the HP from my gloves suddenly?</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff9933 size=4>- both are +HP after all...</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <DIV><FONT size=3>I will bet you a million that guardians are going to get upset if suddenly AC from their shields no longer stacks with AC from their BP's...</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:33 PM</span>

[Splatterpunk28]

<P>This is a pretty bad idea.  I'm sorry, I'm not one of the folks that wasted days of their life camping the tree, but I did waste 60s to go to feerrott everynight before I logged to check (and yes, after about a week of doing this, there it was.)</P> <P>Anyway, these 2 items SHOULD stack.  It is really getting old making decisions about what to do, what to spend money on or invest time in to have SoE make huge changes like this.  (Boy I could really go off here about spell changes, tradeskills, etc)</P> <P>I got my robe 3days ago, now I wish I would have sold it for 15pp so I could have all my Tier5's Adept III's.</P> <P>This robe will now be WORTHLESS if you get your GEBsm which are incredibly easy to get.  Heck, I'll be putting mine in the bank and only grab it if I'm gonna go against a sv. magic raid mob.</P> <P>I really hope they will reconsider how affected players will be by this and by those that invested so much time.  Not very many people have this robe on my server, so this robe is NOT overpowering massive players.  </P> <P>/rude SoE</P>

[Bubbaq]

What they should do is only let casters wear very light armor and nobody else.

[Muhad]

<P>It's about time!</P> <P>/em dons asbestos armor of flame protection</P>

[Endraal]

Effects with different names and similar effects should stack. They're different buffs after all. If they didnt want GEBs and RoI  to stack - they should have made the effect on them the same, and at the same time said that identical effects do not stack. Ofcourse, they should have included unattunement for the poor sods out there with several battlement of the mind  , fortitude of the body , etc items But from what I understand , those items still stack, the lack of thought behind the entire incident boggles me. Yes, powerregen needs to be scaled down , but this little hotfix right here - proves to me that SoE isn't fully grasping the issues at hand. Kinda like trying to explain basic physics to a 3 year old. They get that the apple can fall , and that it sometimes makes a funny squishy sound. Applying that funny squishing sound to themselves falling down , is not that easy. Doesnt matter, I play a coercer, I have no expectations of SoE being able to work through any kind of issue anyways. <div></div>

[Colin MacLaren]

Some of the easier raids designed for starter guilds, namely Zalak, Drayeck and several x2 encounters, were doable without the ever absent enchanter if your healers had both GEB and RoI. Now, if you don't have a Thaumaturgist amongst your roster or the enchanter has to log off, 23 people will be screwed having nothing to do that evening.<p>Message Edited by Colin MacLaren on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:36 AM</span>

[Hun]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>There is a very large difference between an item that is quested, and an item that drops from a mob that spawns once every several days. I waited, camped, and finally obtained my dual NB rings after 45 days of pure suckiness. How many days it take to complete GEB's? A day, two tops? Did you have to gather 12+ of your friends to get your robe every week at 7am just so you could have a chance at getting it? No. There is a difference between Legendary and Fabled gear. I'm going to say it as clearly as I can..if SOE nerfs my dual NB's without the option to unattune, you can be guaranteed I will not remain in this game. I can't believe you guys are actually calling for a Battlement nerf when most people who have Fabled power regen gear busted their [Removed for Content] for months to try obtain nice items ... not just a few days. Please, consider this before jumping the gun SOE... alot of people worked very hard for the fabled gear their wearing. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Hunda on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:14 AM</span>

[Judgem]

<DIV>Not a very good change. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE you imbalance the game by nerfing poeple that got those 2 items with either time or skill or PP against the poeple that did not spend the time/skill/PP to get it. Purely unfair towards the first. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I fully fail to understand why you have people or even 1 person sitting there having the time to think about item nerfs instead of putting this very same person into developping NEW items to make it correct from second 1 of implementing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ishbu]

This change is simply untolerable by the players who have spent days upon days trying to get these items.

[Bup]

Yeah the better change would have been to make the ROI caster only, like it and all VLA armor should be.  You gotta love a RANGER starting the thread.  Hey, maybe you will now actually wear a bp you were meant to wear. <div></div>

[Soronil]

<DIV>I think a better solution to this would be reducing the amount of mana regen, but still allowing the items to stack...This will have the same effect of less mana regen, but it doesn't penalize the players that take the time to earn both items.  So instead of making them both 16 and not stack, why not make each one 8 and let them stack?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sure everyone else would be much more satisfied with a solution like this.</DIV>

[Ishbu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Soronil wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think a better solution to this would be reducing the amount of mana regen, but still allowing the items to stack...This will have the same effect of less mana regen, but it doesn't penalize the players that take the time to earn both items.  So instead of making them both 16 and not stack, why not make each one 8 and let them stack?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm sure everyone else would be much more satisfied with a solution like this.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well since I am a caster, that solution does in fact work for me, but I dont like it at all.  For example, there are many priests who wear GEBS and ROI's.  Using a cleric class, now they can scrap one for some heavy armor BP or boots.  Using your proposed change they would still have to wear both, and all this would be is an enourmous nerf to them, instead of the giant one it is.

[Malead]

This is a horrible change. <div></div>

[Aelore]

<DIV>First, I want to agree with the poster about the need for class restricted loot.  I find it insane that plate wearers have the full array of choices for what armor they want to wear, but casters are limited to only a few items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think instead of this nerf (if they're insistant about removing the stacking) that they should leave the robe at 20 points per tick, and then change the effect on the boots entirely to something useful.   What annoys me more than anything is the fact that now I have two fairly 'uber' items for which one doesn't have an effect now since they cancel out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Or...let them continue to stack, but reduce the boots to 5 or 10 or something so that together you get 25 or 30 ....instead of making them useless entirely.</DIV>

[Ishbu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aelorean wrote: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What annoys me more than anything is the fact that now I have two fairly 'uber' items for which one doesn't have an effect now since they cancel out.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Unfortunately the robe is utter crap if this change goes live <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[kaoriknigh]

<P>Whats baffling is that there is already class only loot in game-- except they only did it for one class. Lord Nagalik in Solusek's Eye drops an entire set of Brawling skill only armor-- and he drops it ALOT. What I don't understand is why would they do something like this but for only one class and then make it so after you've killed the mob more than 2 times all the armor rots. </P> <P>They should have made more use of archtype skills as armor requirments than just slapping VLA, LA, et c on it. </P> <P>Changing the Robe to 16 is understandable-- changing the boots to 16 is still more than ample for their difficulty but making them not stack is just uncalled for. I feel the boots should be lowered further and allow the items to continue to stack. SOE needs to stop fixing gameplay issues by nerfing things that aren't the cause. Content isn't too easy because ROI and GEB stack, content is too easy because the mobs are actually just too easy... its not that confusing. </P> <P>And for anyone that says it gives greater value to enchanters-- well possibly, but I've still managed to run OOP on raids several occasions without an Enchanter and my regen items. Most raids without an enchanter are miserable. Anyone that wouldn't take an enchanter to save a raid spot because they had a ton of regen items seems a little questionable. </P>

[Ellywen]

For the poster who mentioned other FT items like Extraplanar Girdle, Runed Combine Talisman, Tablet of the Cryptkeeper, Band of Shimmering Spirits, etc.... <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>... make sure these get nerfed too.  I mean, hey, If you think that the ROI + GEB = disaster, tack on any and all of these to the nerfed items and you will be in the same situation.  Why should guilds who have a monopoly on contested spawns be allowed to OD on FT items where those of us who were happy with ROI + GEB have to get royally screwed?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This nerf will not fix ANYTHING if the problem is "Waaah, FT is too powerful~!"  Implement a soft or hard camp on FT.  Allow people to have a CHOICE in what items they wish to wear.  Heck, maybe when I accrue some of the other FT items, I will retire my robe and get something better for my stats - but allow me the choice.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As to the posters upset about heavy armor wearers using this - keep in mind, I am a mystic (medium armor) and clerics are heavy.  We need the power regen as much, if not MORE than mages - at least you can convert hp to power efficiently with your spells (I am still in shock at the way my 25 wizzie regens power).  Having the robe and GEBs at least didn't frustrate me by making me go OOP 10 seconds after spamming inefficient, BROKEN wards on the MT during raids.  Would you have felt better if the robe reward was a choice of armor types?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stuff like this nerf makes me wonder which tragic non robe wearer was doing "favors" for devs at the fan faire.</DIV>

[CoebyWu]

*rolls eyes* There are definitely better solutions to the issue of combat power regen, than what they've done.  This change is just baffling. <div></div>

[Zanthi]

<DIV>This is a great change; however, I do agree that they went about it the wrong way.  I think they should have made the effect names on the items the same and make it so the same effect does not stack.  Maybe that is what they are actually doing, but i doubt it.  I don't think you should get the power regen for dual nightblood rings or anything else like that.  Unattune all the items and make it so same effect doesn't stack and change the name.  Plain and simple way to fix the problem.</DIV>

[Encantador]

<P>As a coercer I hate this change. Please, please do not do it. I do not want to go to raids just to buff 23 others with Clarity and then hide behind a rock.</P> <P>I do however agree with the people who want VLA to be wearable only by mages. It has always seemed wrong that other armour wearers can see a robe with some stat or buff they prefer to one of their own armour type and can choose to wear it, but a VLA wearer (quite rightly) cannot pick say a heavy armour BP.</P>

[Benzeneironpants]

<DIV> <P>I too think this change is extremely awful.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I play with a small group of friends and last night I was helping couple of them finishing FBSS quest.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Before I get flamed about being 50 and not able to breeze through the quest, I have to say we are a casual gaming group.<SPAN>  </SPAN>My friend was tanking, level 44 monk (even con with the mobs, and 2 level higher than what the belt requires) without all the tier 5 legendary armors.<SPAN>  </SPAN>While we don’t planning on doing Darathar soon, I’d at least like to help my friends do some single group heritages quests and not have to tell them, “Sorry, get to level 50 or I can’t help you”.<SPAN>  </SPAN>The only reason that we survived couple of the fights was because of the mana regen I had with the robe and boots.<SPAN>  </SPAN>On 2 of the mobs, I was down to 10% and basically came down to either the mob or us.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Luckily we won.<SPAN>  </SPAN></P> <P>I know it is difficult to find a middle ground for both the hardcore raiders and casual players like myself.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If you make things easy for me, it will be trivial for them and if you make things more challenging for them, it becomes almost impossible for me.<SPAN>  </SPAN>So I don’t envy the game developers nor do I blame them for the changes they done thus far.<SPAN>  </SPAN>However, I am extremely unhappy about the news of this change.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I hope SoE cares enough about the feeling of the more casual player base, who aren’t into raiding and therefore can not obtain all the super mana regen items besides what’s available through questing.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Last time I looked, boots and robe are it for quested mana regen, besides prismatic, but come on, really, that’s almost like getting raid fable items for casual gamers, near impossible.</P> <P> </P> <P>--Benzeen, level 50 templar, Tox server</P></DIV>

[RandomPlay]

<P>It sucks being the one who just paid 5-15pp for ROI only to find out it's now just a +5 int robe.  Luckily this wasn't me, but I had started saving for it.</P> <P>It sucks being the one who sat for 3 weeks staring at a tree to click on a rock that might appear if the stars line up just right.  I ran by frequently, but I never camped a tree.  I'd rather be a sucky robe wearing mage with a smile than a ROI wearing mage staring at a still image of a tree stump for 3 weeks.</P> <P>It sucks spending 2 weeks killing green mobs for almost no xp in hopes of getting the tattered robe drop before leveling.  Did this.</P> <P>It sucks turning off xp to keep mobs green, giving up levels and better loot, in order to get a rare quest starter drop.  Did this briefly, after levelling 35-43 almost exclusively in Feerrott with no quest drop.</P> <P>However...</P> <P>It also sucks that a handful of people raced to Feerrott levels while it was still a 10 minute rock timer and got it easily while others had to sweat blood to get it.  This balances out that inequity somewhat if only for players that haven't already sweated that blood.</P> <P>It also sucks that there was basically one robe that any caster type "needed" to be raid competitive at levels 42 to 50, even over most fabled robes, and probably would have been into the expansion pack levels, too.   Equipment variety is the spice in an RPG and seeing so many clones in a ROI wasn't what I expected back in November.</P> <P>There are better ways they could have addressed this, but it needed to be addressed.  </P> <P>It would be nice, though, if SOE could look back at purchase records for broker transactions for robe and allow NPCs to buyback the ROI from players who paid $$$$$$$$$ at something like 50% or 75% of their paid cost.</P> <DIV>- RP</DIV>

[Exiarwa]

<P><SPAN>To the OP, I must say that this does indeed suck that you spent all that time camping this one spawn, but you must admit that from an objective standpoint, all of the whining on the forums was bound to evoke a response from the Devs. I do not personally have this gear, as I am not yet high enough to use it. The GEB is definitely on my list of to dos, but the RoI is not worth the time to camp since I am what SOE considers a "casual gamer". It is for these casual gamer that the immortal nerf bat has been wielded upon these items. As a "casual gamer", I personally do not believe that I should have the ultra uber gear that the hardcore gamers do, and by no means do I believe that I am entitled to anything. What I would like to see is a natural progression to the quest system. Instead of camping some rock for untold hours or killing thousands of mobs in the hopes of getting the ultra rare drop, I wish that this could be some ultra long quest. One that would take weeks to complete like killing x number of this and then killing x number of that followed by traveling across the map to some remote location. I would be happy in knowing my progress instead of being lucky in getting the drop. I wish that these items had not been nerfed. I don't believe in nerfing, but rather making them less significant by replacing them with better items that perhaps work in a different manner.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>Just my two cents.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>Iarwain</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT size=3><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT></SPAN> </P>

[Orki who Pos]

<P><FONT color=#ffff66 size=3>Exiar, you do realize that the casual gamers were the ones hit the hardest right?</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>The hardcore, and the raiders, can obtain other mana regeneration gear.. but for the casual gamers, only two items are available.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>GEBs were relatively easy to get, but once you got those.. you'r stuck.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>The advantage of the invoker robe was that, while it sure would take a long while, you COULD go looking for it an hour a week, or just hunt in feerott while you were in that level range.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>You CANNOT go raid an hour every week, and get the remaining mana regeneration items. </FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>For those you need a raiding guild. (Read, non-casual)</FONT></P> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT></DIV>

[Sagie]

<DIV>eerrrr just who is going to tell my enchanter friend, whom just bought this robe two days ago for 20p that it's now worthless? oucch!</DIV>

[AnonymeDiscret]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> encanta wrote:<BR> <P>I do however agree with the people who want VLA to be wearable only by mages. It has always seemed wrong that other armour wearers can see a robe with some stat or buff they prefer to one of their own armour type and can choose to wear it, but a VLA wearer (quite rightly) cannot pick say a heavy armour BP.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>It's incredible people (especially mages) always get this the wrong way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem is not that HA wearers can wear VLA, that point is just logical : If I can wear a 50 Kg enchanted cuirass, I CAN wear a magical shirt, that's quite obvious.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The problem is : why on earth HA wearers prefer to wear a VLA robe ? Everyone answers correctly : because it has a power-regen on it. Yes, that's true, this is the reason. And then, all you find to say is "make all VLA robes only wearable by mages".</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><U>Wrong.</U></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>True answer : make HA (and Medium/Light of course) breastplates with a power regen on it !</DIV> <DIV>Make it a rare drop or a hard quest (not both please, don't do the ROI mistake again) but do make some availables and you will no longer see plate wearers with ROI.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As far as I recall, there's only one HA breastplate with a power regen on it, and of course, it's dropped by a raid target and is really rare.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Reiano]

I Think the robe should be nerfed its still easy to get  got it to drop on a alt why xping and got it  on my main and there always some for sale on broker. I see pepole passing  on the cryptic and robe of protection cause they dont want to give up there roi. And the regens on fabled should stack cause there lot harder to get especialy to get a couple that stack especialy with the nerf to steel chests.

[CoebyWu]

<span><blockquote><hr>Orki who Posts wrote:<p><font color="#ffff66" size="3">Exiar, you do realize that the casual gamers were the ones hit the hardest right?</font></p> <div><font size="3"></font></div><hr></blockquote>This is so very true.  If they had instead put in a combat power regen cap, Lets say 50, it would have accomplished what they were shooting for without hurting the casual player. Is the casual player with 40 the real problem, or the high level raider with 100 the problem?  With this change, anyone with the RoI and Boots drops to 16, while the high level raider is still above 50.</span><div></div>

[Skyrocket]

<DIV>  I am a Templar and wear the robe...But this is needed.    The robe was available way to early and way to much in the beginning.  Yes it is a little harder to get now, but that is a bit late.   Everyone seems to be wearing this robe cause of power regen.  To be honest i couldn't tell you one other stat on the item.   I do hope they add some nice dropped Breastplates for doing this tho.  Also maybe healers will start to look like actual healers and not a wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone said all power regen items should be included....but I do not agree with doing that.  For one thing the Buckler, belt, and Tailsman that have power regen are obtained from raiding and are not dropped everytime in these zones.  We have done a zone many of times and the buckler has only dropped twice for us.  Those are not as common which is the way i hope it is kept.    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone said this will make raids harder.   If it does that would be good.....but I doubt it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the other members in the raid.........FEED ME POWER!!!!   :smileyvery-happy:</DIV><p>Message Edited by Skyrocket on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:10 PM</span>

[thepriz]

While I agree that things should be a challange to get, when I hear about things like spending 3 weeks to get something to spawn or good loot is only available to raiders this makes me think about EQ1 all over again. I would love to be able to raid. I just hate spending hours of wasted time trying to get raids together. I work hard to build my guild up only to have people join grab free houndouts and leave as soon as they got what they wanted. I continually try to recruit people to make my guild bigger, but with the small numbers on my server and the low incomming new people this is rediculous. Now I can understand balance and such but, to restrict the best loot to the top raiding guilds is rediculous. If EQ2 heads in the direction of EQ1 and only allows raiding guilds to get good stuff then I guess, I will find a new game. Only time will tell. <div></div>

[BdybldKris]

<P>I'm sorry, but the change is utter BS.  IF the names of the effects were the same, fine...don't let them stack...They are 2 different effects, therefore they SHOULD stack....</P> <P> </P> <P>This is just poor game management, period.</P>

[Revri]

<P>I do not understand the logic behind such a drastic change in end-game caster gear. The stacking of these items do not prevent people from going oom when facing a tough encounter. Even as a conj with RoI, GEBs, and my numerous mana generating spells i go through my mana relatively quickly. I have not seen a solid arguement yet for why this change is going live. Are their any other ideas?</P>

[Kven]

<P> </P> <P>Here's my take on this:</P> <P> </P> <P>I currently have the robe.</P> <P>I think the robe WAS overpowered.  When people pass on FABLED caster robe to keep their Robe of the Invoker, something's wrong.</P> <P>HOWEVER</P> <P>They took the wrong approach.  The only thing that REALLY irritates me is that all the time I put into getting it ( levels 32 to 43 on the lowest-con mobs I could find to make it last so I could get drop ).  They just strip it away.  I mean, I'm going to have to buy another robe now.  My old one went to a vendor.</P> <P> </P> <P>Give us a chance to get our time / money back.  How?  Make this robe sell for some nice amount of pp.  At least I could get a decent replacement and some spell upgrades that I still need.  The nerf was taking our lollypop away.  I'm cool w/ that, but they didn't just steal our candy, they slapped us in the face and spit on us too.</P> <P> </P> <P>WEEKS / MONTHS were wasted just trying to get this item.   UNATTUNING is <U>NOT</U> the answer, who the hell is going to WANT to buy this robe now?  I couldn't give it away if I wanted to.  If I could it'd be for 30g because everyone is going to unload this item.</P> <P> </P> <P>I do agree, however, that it was far overpowered... I'm just irritated because of wasting my (as COUNTLESS others have) time. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P>

[Mysticali]

<DIV> <P>Okay <B>Level 50 Illusionist here with Master 1 Insight</B>. My point of view on this whole matter.</P> <P>I have RoI, GEB's and Prismatic. (Even as an Illusionist !)</P> <P>The whole thing about nerfing players from benefiting from both the RoI and GEB's just so that "Enchanters" are a must and to make it easier for them to get into raids is completely untrue. (As mentioned in another post as a reason why this change was needed lol)</P> <P>On my average day when I log on, I almost immediately get asked by my Guild or Alliance to come to a raid if a mob is up. If im free and Tradeskilling I on average get Pm'd about 3-5 times a day from random guilds or raids to help them on a raid. If I happen to be afk or around the house I get Spammed by people on MSN until I do log on !</P> <P>Yes, Things like Drayek and Zalek etc are easy and can be done without and Enchanter class present, but thats not the fault of the GEB or RoI, its SOE's fault for making those mobs so stupidly easy. I mean even with less than 2 groups we are standing around waiting for the next part for minutes on Drayek twiddling our thumbs and our MT the other day tanked Drayek NAKED !! (No Armour etc , Just a weapon) and im being serious here I have the screenie to prove it !</P> <P>Some raids we wont even try to attempt without an Enchanter or myself present, even though a "few" not all people have the RoI and GEB's quite simply because time after time they tell me that Im needed and without me there , they notice such a huge difference and fail often without me.</P> <P>Now let me see.... as it is currently, there is a distinct lack of Very Light Armour Fabled drops from epic mobs. As it stands at the moment Brawlers and Scout classes seem to have it made where it seems at least from my perspective their armour drops more frequently than Heavy or Very Light. </P> <P>Im a 50 Tailor with the secrets to Tailoring vol 40 and ive seen the stats on the Velvet Robes and even if this patch does go through, still noone will ever want to use their Yew Primer on that as its stats aside from the +Power are poor like most robes without +int in the game.</P> <P>So as it stands at the moment the RoI is <B>not</B> easy to get unless you happen to be very lucky (like on a raid) or you happen to be very rich and can afford 20odd plat to buy one. It is and was every casters dream robe which many aimed and played for months to get, just like in EQ1 where people spent entire months trying to complete their epics to get that 1 item. People were given a goal to reach just like IRL and once they achieved it of which some people never or still are trying, they feel an immense sence of satisfaction when they finally get one.</P> <P>What are the alternatives? as far as a fabled robe goes.. thats the main issue.. there isnt really a decent alternative robe. Yes there are nice robes like the Ancient Rallosian Gown + 16 int +16 wis +32 health +44 power but thats again from a treasured not fabled. As I said already the fabled Velvet Robe made from the Yew Primer does not even come close to stats and the gown was something I just picked out the top of my head.</P> <P>If an enchanter ever has anything to complain about its not the fact that they cannot get into raids because everyone is decked out in GEB and RoI's and Prismatics etc its more the case of there is really only room for 1 Enchanter in a full 24 raid grp. And after Insight and Legerity, there is our problem. Yes Master Dismay decreases crushing piercing etc of Target by 9. We have Powerdrains which after speechless are hardly worth it anymore especially since epics can regen power. We have so many spells that cannot be used on Epics. Thats where the problem I believe lies for Enchanters. After Insight is on everyone and the debuff has landed we dont have the slows or stuns that we did in EQ1, and so many of our spells are not for use in this version against Epics. And as so many people never see an active enchanter around many are used to trying things without one there (As enchanters in this game seem to be far less popular to play than in EQ1 because IMO people level them to around their mid 30's and give up the class).</P> <P>From a raiding Enchanters perspective, we are strongly needed by any raid force even with people having the mentioned items and every good raid force should have one. If you wanted to help the enchanter class just look in thier boards and look at the main issues that we are concerned on, there are plenty !</P> <P>Now if there is any change that needed to be made it is to give a decent alternative to the casters involved and make Very Light armour drop more frequently. Or for the life of me make things such as robes only equippable by those classes intended to use it. I mean you dont see a mage decked out in full Ebon Platemail do you? But why, when we are so close to the September expansion are you suddenly changing this. At lvl 60 this robe will be so grey and something new and exciting will be every casters dream and goal to get. But why ruin everyones moral and attitudes on something as silly like this when the fact of the matter is SOE the Epic mobs in this game are just too EASY !!!</P></DIV><p>Message Edited by Mysticality on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:58 AM</span>

[Ashlian]

<DIV>I cannot understand, given the fact that they had EQ1 to provide sterling examples of unintended stacking effects, why this situation ever occurred to begin with. A better solution would have been to replace the effect on the GEB's and put in a couple of other quested items that would be more difficult, but not impossible, for the casual gamer to achieve. As has been previously stated, it's not the casual gamer who is breaking the curve on mana regen. This leaves the raiders essentially untouched but manages to remove the only hopes the casual gamer had of buffing their mana regen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hard and soft caps were constantly utilized in One when they screwed up with stacking, and there should be plenty of methods to tweak it in Two without devaluing all the effort people put into getting these items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ashlian Liadan, 39 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</DIV>

[Brash]

<font color="#9933ff"><font size="2"><font face="Comic Sans MS">The 20 per tick regen  really  wasn't a whole lot  of help  IMO  can't understand  why it was  neccesary to Nerf AND make the  effects not stack one or the other would  have sufficed.    Kind of sad they nerf a  Heritage Quest item,  I have enough of them hanging on the wall . . . </font></font></font><div></div>

[Spymast]

<P>DEVS please listen. if you just nerf these 2 items effect dont't stack. IT'S NOT REAL FIX. NO NEED SHY TO USE BACK EQ1 FT CAP METHOD. It's the best way to solve the problem. I believe everyone here like this. Maybe EQ2 should have a cap around 30 to 45 total item power regen effect ATM. So player can choose items with power regen them self. If boots + robe over 30 and the cap is 30 then only give 30regen. It's a good idea ? It's wont hurt everyone and your item designer much easy to put power regen effect to item because it's a a cap!. Event you have all power regen item in game and use it at same time. You actually only have 30 for example.</P> <P>If you only nerf these 2 items. NO one would like to hear it. If you want nerf. NERF all power regen item. So not only the guilds can raid can get over 40 power regen effect. Robe + Boots is the best power regen items for normal players without raiding force at this moment. </P> <P>I think all players would like the total cap method to prevent overpower issue rather then just nerf to items. Why EQ2 team can't learn the good things from EQ1 the most successful MORPG and always do some stxpid things.</P>

[Cecil_Stri]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kaoriknights wrote:<BR> <P>Whats baffling is that there is already class only loot in game-- except they only did it for one class. Lord Nagalik in Solusek's Eye drops an entire set of Brawling skill only armor-- and he drops it ALOT. What I don't understand is why would they do something like this but for only one class and then make it so after you've killed the mob more than 2 times all the armor rots. </P> <P>They should have made more use of archtype skills as armor requirments than just slapping VLA, LA, et c on it. </P> <P>Changing the Robe to 16 is understandable-- changing the boots to 16 is still more than ample for their difficulty but making them not stack is just uncalled for. I feel the boots should be lowered further and allow the items to continue to stack. SOE needs to stop fixing gameplay issues by nerfing things that aren't the cause. Content isn't too easy because ROI and GEB stack, content is too easy because the mobs are actually just too easy... its not that confusing. </P> <P>And for anyone that says it gives greater value to enchanters-- well possibly, but I've still managed to run OOP on raids several occasions without an Enchanter and my regen items. Most raids without an enchanter are miserable. Anyone that wouldn't take an enchanter to save a raid spot because they had a ton of regen items seems a little questionable. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Content isn't too easy cause the mobs are too easy.... Its too easy cause the current system allows certain buff stacks to make your tank pretty much invulnerable.</P> <P> </P> <P>This is a balance problem not a mob problem... We as  a guild have been fighting and fighting and getting our butts whooped from mobs and while everyone was complaining about how easy everything was..</P> <P>Well we were scratching our heads and wondering why everything kept getting increased and one day we decided to go all out avoidance... got our tank up to 100%... cast dust storm on tank... and then all content became trivial.  The combat system upgrade will hopefully fix this huge balance issue (its not just that one spell... many spells buff avoidance to the point where a tank becomes godly)</P>

[Malachi]

Changing the Robe to 16 is understandable-- changing the boots to 16 is still more than ample for their difficulty but making them not stack is just uncalled for. I feel the boots should be lowered further and allow the items to continue to stack. SOE needs to stop fixing gameplay issues by nerfing things that aren't the cause. Content isn't too easy because ROI and GEB stack, content is too easy because the mobs are actually just too easy... its not that confusing. ----------------- So let me get this straight, because you have a robe and are now feeling slighted, your "fix" is to screw over everyone else without the robe so that you can wear it and still get the benefits? I understand that this so called fix is hard on those of you with the robe, but intent of this change (for better or worse) is to make it so everyone doesnt feel like they need to have it to be effective. Nerfing the GEBs so that your robe will stack will have the exact opposite effect. Instead of the majority of people wanting this robe, everyone will. I realize that you already have the robe, thus couldn't care less about what happens to everyone else, but at least think of something better than sticking it to those of us who niether have nor want that robe. Understand, the change to the robe is to make it less desirable, not more. <div></div>

[MiscreantPy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RandomPlayer wrote: <P>It also sucks that a handful of people raced to Feerrott levels while it was still a 10 minute rock timer and got it easily while others had to sweat blood to get it.  This balances out that inequity somewhat if only for players that haven't already sweated that blood.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>2 minute timer on the rock actually, we used to camp it just to sell it to merchants for 40s a pop. :/</DIV>

[AndorDehay]

I see this as a great move.  I am sick of seeing a thousand Invoker clones running around.  SOE should come out with a whole bunch of new mana regen robes as dragon loot that stack with GEBS.  A lvl 41 robe should be the end at of robes. . .

[Vulking]

<DIV>You know, I had an epiphany on Nerfday (nerfday was the first patch day of EQ2).  I decided not to spend one stinking gold piece on any item in this game that was considered uber.  I had bought the Cap of Ethermire, remember that one?  They nerfed it, never mind that it was almost impossible to get, that it was <STRONG>rare.  </STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well, ever since I have left those items alone.  Why? Because they will get nerfed.  SOE does not want any object in this game to create an environment where one player can say, "I have something you don't".  And for how ever much I STRONGLY DISAGREE with SOE for this viewpoint, it will not change things one bit. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No statement about an item "being too powerful, or not working as intended", will ever convince me that its anything but an attempt to equalize the game environment for everyone. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You see, more people are happy if they have what you have.  Its social behavior at its best and worst.  It is my contention that SOE believes they will keep more people playing the game, and thus paying for the game, if they are happy.  Well this works in the short run, ie. 1 to 2 years, but after that the sameness will take over and people will wonder what they are in it for, and begin to search for a change. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I feel that this is the wrong viewpoint to take,  I argue that it is the differences that make things interesting and fun.  The differences are defined by the challanges and the risks involved in obtaining something someone else doesn't have.  How boring is the world if its all beige in color, where everyone has the same thing. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Where are all the people who complain about the sameness of armor type and color?  These are the same people who should be arguing against any change to nerf objects in the game at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps SOE is all too aware of this and have no intention of pro-longing this game beyond a 3 year life cycle, and will add just enough new content to make people forget about the sameness by providing you with another color of beige.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the end, I don't play this game for the unique items, I play to be with friends.  And I will continue to save my plat for some item "to be determined" that has no chance of being nerfed and thus not ever leaving me feeling I wasted my ingame money and time by buying the Cap of Ethermire again.</DIV>

[DevinK]

I don't think it's too much to ask for <STRONG>at least</STRONG> 5pp sell back for this robe.

[alxsen]

<P>I think if not for any other reasons, they should stack because the robe is SO hard to get now. it is now a pointless item as the stats blow. </P>

[jaythedogg]

Yea, they never nerfed the flowing thought items in EQ stacking together... <div></div>

[jaythedogg]

HERE HERE! 6g is not worth the hours camping lizardmen I spent. <div></div>

[Timber13]

Sorry SOE but this can't be truth, it's like offering a child 2 candies, once he got them in his mouth, you take one out of it. That doesn't work and your customers don't want that happening. You made the Robe and the Boots like that, some people camped it for weeks and others payed tons of plat for it. Just saying now, hey let's nerf it and let them not stack anymore just DOES NOT WORK! I can understand you nerf it that the power regen becomes 16 or so, but they need to stack with eachother. Many fabled power regen gear stack aswell, you work for that stuff [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] hard so you want that reward aswell! Point. Period. Over. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ullr - 50 Warden of Toxxulia</DIV>

[Kirotaan]

<span><blockquote><hr>jaythedogg wrote:Yea, they never nerfed the flowing thought items in EQ stacking together... <div></div><hr></blockquote>Just a quick question on that.  When I left EQ1 flowing thought was limited to 15.  Is that still true?</span><div></div>

[Armill]

<DIV>Giving the robe a 5p sell back would be just plain silly. Like someone mentioned earlier they used to just sell it for 40 silver on the broker cause it spawned way to fast. That means a lot of people are just gonna get 5p for what, sitting down for 2 minutes. That means they should give all those people who got a greater lightstone for doing that whole quest before Rama'nai was brought on a shorter timer other than his uber never appear one should be able to sell that for like 2 plat. It doesn't balance and it just seems like an ignorant comment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don't wish to come off as a jerk by saying that, i'm just trying to make a point that by letting people who camped something for 2 minutes to get 5 plat isn' good. And yes I know some people had to camp it for like 1 whole eq year, im just saying it seems a little bit overblown asking for 5 plat. Maybe like 60 gold like jboots, but 5plat it just way to much if thats the case i want like 2 plat for my greater lightstone. Cause Rama'nai sucked too.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Armill on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:11 PM</span>

[DaenaeRavenso]

<DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________</DIV> <DIV> Golden Efreeti Boots and Robe of the Invoker now regenerate <STRONG>16</STRONG> power at level 50 instead of <STRONG>20</STRONG>. In addition, their regen effects no longer stack</DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=6>WHY?</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileymad::smileysad::smileymad::womansad::womans ad::womansad::smileymad:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dae</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P>Message Edited by DaenaeRavensong on <SPAN class=date_text>06-16-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:26 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by DaenaeRavensong on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:27 PM</span>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kirotaan wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jaythedogg wrote:<BR>Yea, they never nerfed the flowing thought items in EQ stacking together...<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Just a quick question on that.  When I left EQ1 flowing thought was limited to 15.  Is that still true?<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I believe they added aa's by which you could increase your FT cap....that would have been right around when I left, so I can't tell you exactly what they are. </P> <P>I still think a cap would be appropriate if they're that concerned about presently trivialized content....it's not that hard to raise a cap once it's put in play, and the people who are getting seriously shafted on this aren't the people trivializing the content anyway. I have NO ARGUMENT with more choices, I would love more choices! But until that blessed day, stop nerfing things until the fabled combat revamp goes live and you can actually SEE what will truly need to be nerfed. How can any kind of equipment balancing be done when the playing field will shift so dramatically with the revamp? </P> <P>I don't understand it....and I just spent quite a bit of time helping my sister in law work on the robe starter. We would have been delighted to spend our extremely limited playtime together on something else if we'd known this was coming. Thank Tunare she didn't just buy it outright :smileyindifferent:</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 39 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Kirotaan]

<div></div>Ashlian yeah i like the idea of capping it.  I own neither items but I would be concerned about it later on. Edit bad spelling issues   <div></div><p>Message Edited by Kirotaan on <span class=date_text>06-16-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:36 PM</span>

[Weekst]

<P>Once live all you can do is dump the robe and get a rallosian robe and keep the boots , move on..Useless item...ROI <---will be useless to casters even...The stats aren't the greatest its worn for effect...</P>

[Aery]

<DIV>So your thinking goes "we're already losing customers, lets try and [Removed for Content] off an entire class+ and get rid of a huge chunk of our playerbase in one fell swoop!" ???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont get it SOE. Im not even a mage, but this non stacking invoker+gebs is completely dumbfounding. I imagine this wont go Live, but please slap the genious who came up with this one.</DIV>

[Supernova17]

This is totally stupid SOE. Robe of the Invoker - Essence Replenishment   Golden EF Boots - Flowing Thought They are two different regen effects! They should stack! Better yet, get rid of imbued armor procs. I mean, why should 3 Sanguine Imbued effects be present and stack? This is total BS and we're getting punished for other people either exploiting the system or because to many children whined to Sony that they couldn't get a Robe too when they average about 8 hours a week of playtime...... BAD business move, you know, we know it. Why don't you go FIX some things before you start NERFING AND BREAKING EVERYTHING ELSE in the game. How about pathing in Cazic Thule? How about pathing in Solusek? How about the certian fact that IceBerg and TundraJack walk through a fricken mountian through the spider tunnel and back onto their plain like they shouldn't be doing. Hell, it took the Everfrost masacare on Oggok for you to get off your lazy butts and fix the KraThuk encounter. I mean you only had 12+ GMs out there returning 60+ peoples shards, some of whom had lost multiple shards when KraThuks adds multiplied like the old T'Hean bug where he spawned 100 copies of himself and covered the entire fricken zone. KraThuk chasing people all the way to Permafrost, a Greater Tempest Inducer ^^^ parked outside the safe respawn swatting anyone who dared to move, two Tempests ^^^ parked in the Spider tunnel denying people access to thier shards on the other side. The GMs eventually had to despawn KraThuk and his adds as people we're still getting slaughtered while they were returning shards. 60+ petitions go in, we get no reimbursement for repair costs but 2 fricken days later they fix him. I was quite delighted by the GMs who told my friends and I that the encounter was "Working as Intended". I know many people know who are iffy about setting foot in EF after that incident. Oh, how about Food and Drink once again disappearing when you die or log? How about more actively hunting botters who ruin the market. How hard can it be for SOE employees to take one of thier GM characters and follow suspected bot groups around watching them farm and then transfer to thier sales toon and put everything on the market etc. Did no one ever test the Froglok instance prior to its release with all its bugs and pathing issues? At least being a World Event it was fixed, but this shouldnt have came to the Live servers in such a state. Why Why Why, do you have to break and nerf things that have been in the game since the start, yet never fix anything unless you have an entire zone start randomly killing people. My advice to SOE is to do your power regen reduction and drop the subject, or you will have hundreds of players lucky or determined enough to have gotten their robes come in here shooting when you surprise them with this nerf. <div></div>

[Doo]

<DIV>this is what happens when eanough people complain about not being able to obtain the RoI....they do something drastic and stupid, i can't really expect anything else to suprise me anymore....this is rdicioulus and sad. when the game first came out it was enjoyable and the citys were alive and people were everywhere, now.....well... you know</DIV>

[Vorham]

<DIV>It's about time, power regen way too easy to get. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyone who was raiding during the EQ1 days when magicians would do nothing but crap out mod-rods into a big pile on the floor should know the problems that arise when power regen is allowed to be too great. In the end this change will be for the good of the game.</DIV>

[anaish]

<P>This is such a bad nerf.  Those are two different effects and should be allowed to stack.  Robe of invoker is so hard to get and Gebs take alot of effort to get.  Why punish people for takeing the time and effort to obtain these?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Walnu]

It is a necessary nerf.  Priests being able to stay full mana while spam healing is not what was intended and trivializes high end encounters.  Some of you need to think outside of yourselves and look at the big picture.  Though I do feel for those that spent hours/tons of plat to get RoI, I think in the long run this will be better for the game. <div></div>

[Armill]

The only reason I don't think there gonna stack the most is because they were the easiest to get power regain wise. I mean sure there was a long camp, but you didn't have to raid to get it. The invoker is the easiest to get power regain item in the game, if you get the rock. ITs a lot easier to do than GEB's. The reason GEB's doesnt' take as long is because there starter is almost always available but, I agree with this. It makes it so that people will only be using 1 of the easiest to get power regain items instead of raiding and getting the harder ones.

[Jaffa Tamarin]

<DIV>Clearly what SoE should have done is just make this change without any mention in the patch notes, then when someone noticed they could claim it was accidental, but somehow never get round to fixing it :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[DevinK]

<DIV> <DIV>"Anyone who was raiding during the EQ1 days when magicians would do nothing but crap out mod-rods into a big pile on the floor should know the problems that arise when power regen is allowed to be too great. In the end this change will be for the good of the game."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You kidding me? I played EQ1 and if you seriously believe that having to [Removed for Content] Magicians into crapping out mod rods over and over on the floor is how a game is meant to be played, and how it's level of challenge depends on someone's skill in "speedy rod crapping," then something is seriously wrong.</DIV></DIV>

[Tynii]

<DIV>If these changes go onto the live server I AM DONE WITH THIS GAME!!!   I have spent 18 days farming for the invoker quest starter.  I have spent another week to finish up GeB HQ.  I have put the time an effort into getting the best gear I can and what the *** does SOE do Nerfs it all.  What are the reasons for this change?  I am so mad right now I can't even put it into words.  THanks Sony for making this one of the worst experiences I have had on the forums.  Please don't make it the worst experience that I will have with this game.  Do something creative like FIX MY FIRE PET rather than Nerf me to the point of leaving.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you</DIV> <DIV>Tyniii, 48 Conjuror </DIV> <DIV>Fallen Disciples</DIV>

[Armill]

What you should of done Tynii was not camped it, why because its one item and its not as game breaking as you think. You can still do raids just as well without it, GEB's yeah those are easier to get and nice. But the fact is the reason the invoker robe isn't the end all be all of things, the thing is you can always use chanters to get a similar affect. Thus said you shouldn't be too freaked out by it all.

[Nevari]

I'm honestly biased on this change and yet do not agree with a bigger picture, sorry. If we get down to casual, powergamer, raid guilds and so on we will never find a bottom line. I just don't know for whom this change is made but it seems more for the high end raid guilds with plenty of fabled equipment. Personally I do not like it and lowering the regen rate would've been enough. <div></div>

[Cowdenic]

<P>Great so If I want power regen in an exp group just call a chanter, and maybe if one hasnt quit they will be available to help. And if I want power for soloing then what?</P> <P>How about this, you want to control how much power regen people have? I can understand that. Put a cap on power regen from spell effects. Make it effects from armor and Enchanters etc. </P> <P>Only 60 power per tick thats fine. I have my 3 items i need. Now I guess I never need an Enchanter.</P> <P>The following rant was sarcasm. SOE is getting quick to nerf and i AM GETTING SICK OF IT. Was this an issue? possibly, but not as big an issue of all healers spells sucking. What about necro issues? What about wizzie damage? What about broken spells. SOE do you not notice the hundreds of pages of broken things you need to fix that have been promised for months and still have not moved on yet? HUNDREDS of pages.</P> <P>While your at it, fix the way spells upgrade from app 1 to app 4 to adept 1 and 3 and on up to Master 1. It sucks to play wheel of harvesting misfortune to get that ruby you need to upgrade your spell to adept 3 to find out you gain 1 point of piercing damage as your upgrade ON A HEAL.</P>

[Armill]

<DIV>The reason there not doing that yet is because i think its gonna be rolled all into one big thing called the combat changes. Thats gonna be the golden patch I reckon...Tell then were all gonna float in the dark abyss that is are eternal everquest lives until that sun comes in. Doesn't matter if we [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] about it more, its not like we have supreme executive powers to do anything its not are game its SOE, we just play it they own they got the rights to it, and if they want scouts to do zero damage they could. If they want healers to explode they could. If they want fighters to fight well they do...regardless its all coming in a big combat change were not gonna get for another year. So I guess thats all I really have to say about that.</DIV>

[InuyMa]

Unlimited Power/Mana is bad. Even  a super casual friendly ultra fast game like WoW made sure to nerf combat drinking. It's bad in the long run to have stacking mana regen the way it is now. They would've been smart to start with smaller numbers, and perhaps a top end raider would have 20 power regen when wearing a full set of gear. Hell, just watch a templar duel another templar on the test server, that's the really good indicator of how messy the mana regen is at the moment. I will say, this nerf is stupid to do before the combat changes. Doing it afterwards, when you can really gague the players power against the environment would've been smarter. We might be back here again, either getting mana regen nerfed some more, or unnerfed due to the changes. <div></div>

[DevinK]

<P>This is the short and skinny of it. Loads of people play this game, for whatever reason, be it: Social Anxiety Disorder, Veiled sociality of an internet community, Comradary in guilds and friends/sense of achievement, boredom, or even maybe just liking what the game has to offer. And the developers know this. They look at population swings, time frames, reactions to nerfs, declinations of overall playerbase. Everything, charts, graphs, every single thing. And they calculate.... they sit and they say "can we do this?" and I'm sure the answer is always "ehh.. prolly"</P> <P>So tomorrow they'll sit down at their table and say. "Look, we're getting some negative feedback about this Robe issue... some people even said they'd quit if this change goes live." And then about 3 seconds of silence later, everyone will burst into laughter at the absurdity of it all. Because the truth is. they don't care one iota. To them we are a number, a statistic, we aren't people. They don't look at this as "how do we make the game better?" They look at it as "How do we keep our jobs for another year or two."</P> <P>They don't care. And they never will, and that's the problem with MMORPGs, to the developers it's not about making a game worth playing, it's about making a game worth standing.</P>

[Armill]

And complaining about some pixels on a screen isn't worth quitting a game for because its just that some freaking pixels on a screen. But the thigns that make those pixels bad is that those pixels make this game too trivial to begin with. Those mobs were freaking easy to begin with now, but now without your uber amounts of power regain OOPS no more...they going to be slightly harder.Thus changing those pixels is good.

[DevinK]

<DIV>Yeah, okay. Because people who are doing the hard content don't have enough power to take down Darathar with 8 people already, robe or not.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do you honestly believe what you're saying? This hurts the casual gamer and no one else.</DIV>

[Armill]

How can this hurt the CASUAL gamer, I don't think the casual gamer is gonna camp a rock forever to get a robe with a power regain affect when the CASUAL gamer can spend considerably less time getting a power regain time. So I don't think that the CASUAL gamer has time to actually get that robe. So how can that hurt them?

[Orki who Pos]

<FONT size=3>>How can this hurt the CASUAL gamer, I don't think the casual gamer is gonna camp a rock forever to get a robe with a power regain affect when the CASUAL gamer can spend considerably less time getting a power regain time. So I don't think that the CASUAL gamer has time to actually get that robe. So how can that hurt them? </FONT> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>The reason is this:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>A casual gamer, at lvl 50, will not be joining a hardcore raiding guild.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>(with me so far?)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Not joining a raiding guild, you have two (<FONT color=#ff9933>2</FONT>) possible mana regeneration items you can acquire.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>One takes abit of luck, and an afternoon or two of hunting with a good group or a casual gamer guild.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>(This is the golden efrettii boots)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>One takes a LOT of luck, but can be done by simply walking over and checking a specific place just before you log out, and when you log in.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>(This is the robe of the invoker)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>It can also typically be found on the broker for about 15pp, alot of money, so it takes alot of time to gather, possibly during many months.. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Other mana regeneration items simply arent sold on the broker at all. (They are kept by the hardcore, and raiding guilds.)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>A casual gamer, does not, have the option of joining pickup raids, of 24 people, taking out the hardest mobs in the game (or even worse, the contested ones that are rarely up for more than 20 minutes), to obtain items with "batterment of the mind".</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Preventing the stacking of the ROI and GEBs cuts the possible-to-get mana regeneration items for casual gamers, from two (<FONT color=#ff9933>2</FONT>) to one (<FONT color=#ff9933>1</FONT>).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>The really hardcore raiders has alternatives. The casual gamer don't.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffff66 size=3>I hope that cleared up the issue.</FONT></DIV>

[Armill]

<DIV>Nothing is still casual about it, its reserved for people who are hardcore powergamers. I already stated earlier that the reason its probably getting cut stacking wise is because its one of the easier to get, but it still take forever to get it. I don't think any real casual gamer is gonna spend forever camping a rock, or spend 15pp in fact i don't think any casual gamer would ever get that much plat at any one time, unless they were pure tradeskill. It might seem a horrible thing to do, but another question, whats the real purpose of the robe outside of raiding. You kill things way to fast in just a normal group hunting heroics to really ever need that much power regain. Geb's make more sense for them to have </DIV> <DIV>because its a lot easier to attain(sorry about the sentence getting off my cat hit the enter bar). Its not a casual gamer item the RoI its reserved for people who want to spend hours doing a mindnumblingly boring camp or spending 15pp of hard earned money. Just because its POSSIBLY available doesn't make it a casual gamer item either. If a casual gamer gets it good lucky for them, they never really are gonna need it. And if your soloing, and your just soloing solo mobs, which you should because they are solo, and you should have a group for group mobs. But the fact is if your soloing solo mobs, your not gonna need it either, i can go through a group of solo mobs and still be realtivly high on power, so I don't see how that argument works out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry about that being one big paragraph, but another thing that seems flawed is, a casual gamer saving up for an item of this calibar, i doubt thats gonna happen, they would probably spend there money getting something thats gonna help them sooner. And with the pickupraids thats not always the case, on Antonia Bayle we have a channel, where you can get into raids if your not in a huge guild. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I guess all im saying in conclusion is that this isn't a casual gamer item, because its just too hard to attain by casually gaming. (oh and sorry about spelling errors I suck at spelling:smileysurprised<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Cowdenic]

i think it is a casual gamer item because i got the quest starter after a whopping 15 minutes in the feerrott, my first time in there.

[Orki who Pos]

<P><FONT size=3>Your definition of a casual gamer is severely lacking btw.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>The main difference between the casual gamer, and the frequent gamer (often known as hardcore) is how often they play.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>There's nothing wrong with a casual gamer, playing in feerott, during his available playing time, to obtain the robe.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>Sure, it can take him two months to get, playing once a week, but he can get it, and most importantly, get it without a raiding guild.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>The frequent (or hardcore) gamer, can do it in one long stretch.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>Don't make the mistake of thinking that casual gamers are unwilling to put in an effort.. or an amount of hours or are bad players.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>The main difference is that they cannot put in the effort required to join a raiding guild.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <DIV><FONT size=3>I shall never again play 9+ hours a day 6 days a week, as i did in eq1 a few years ago.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>- This makes me one of the casual gamers.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>

[Azuraelle]

For the safety of the game, for the challenge, and for the overall gameplay this change should have been on live month ago. Now it's harder to accept it, moreover for those who camp invoker robe as hell. But if we want our game to continue and reach a balanced status this is necessary.

[FrostP]

<DIV>They should just take the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] robe out the game, they took out the sleeves of swamp knowledge +14int without saying a word just remove the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] robe and stop molesting the people who have earned it already!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Natural evolution of players leaving and outgrowing it after expansions will make it dissapear from within the game when new players cannot obtain it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Another problem is the robe is being used by healers along with screaming mace, scouts use it along with tomahawk, robe should have been vla only and that would have restricted who used it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>not stacking with gebs is just screwing us over long after we all put time and effort into earning it. SOE makes the mistake but it's always the players who get the shaft.</DIV>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV><FONT size=3>azuraelle, out of curiosity.. how does it help the game in the long run?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>There are alot of other mana regeneration items in the game, but alas, only obtainable to raid people....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>The main problem for non-raiders is not mana regeneration, it is that the mobs dont hit tanks enough and are frankly too easy.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>The problem is NOT mana regeneration, since a decent 45+ group wont even be using all they came with while fighting 2-3-4 encounters at a time.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>There's alot of problems with raids being too easy, but again, nerfing one specific mana regeneration item isn't the solution. (It doesnt even help)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>They did not stop people from obtaining 100+ mana/tick mana regeneration, all they did was give those with the robe the middle finger.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>If they wanted to do it for the good of the game, they could:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>A: Reduce the effect of power regeneration items in general.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>B: Introduce a hard and or soft cap on mana regeneration.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Taking one specific item, and ruining it, is NOT the solution.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Please note, the golden efrettii boots will not really be affected by this, only the robe. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Since, everyone will be using the boots instead.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Nerfing one item out of a dozen with like effects, does NOT aid the long-evity of the game.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>06-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:48 PM</span>

[Gerrie]

<DIV>to be honest  at level 50 before i joined a raidguild in eq2 i was rather unhappy when i got my adept 3 spells because it made healing with a 50 tank in normal groups sooo easy. When i got my GEBs it made it even worse. The only thing i do at 50 atm is raid and farm some small instances. Things like that Icesprint(?) zone in the western part of EF with a 50 tank are sooo trivial though, its as much fun as cleaning up my reallife room maybe. I have troubble to see, why a casual player would spend 10pp on a robe to help with level 50^^.. or 52^^ .. mobs. It takes away a goal for people and ´now they ll probably be even more bored.</DIV> <DIV>On the raids i d sell my soul for some other regen items and i was going to buy a robe for 10+pp, beside not having that much money atm though, there arent really often RoIs on our broker/fence.. people buy them for 10pp so fast, you are lucky if you saw them for sell at all, if you check a coupple times each day.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont have the robe, but i can imagine how people must feel that recently bought the robe..... 10pp sellback to everyone who bought the robe on our server in the last 2months would be fine with me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And i dont really understand the nerf.. maybe someone can explain it to me again pls. There are 8powerregen items or so? I watched a nicely equipped templar in a raid against venekor a few days ago. He had Prismatic weapon, Geb, Robe, Ring of the nightblood and a fifth one PLUS ChanterInsight. And he was down to 10% power when venekor was at 90%. Of course he was fullpower again when Venekor finally died several minutes later, but he got really close to oop with a Chanter and several items that are really hard to get? I have never seen N'Kzak The Unatural on /Ponder ever since i got access to the enchanted lands months ago, he drops the ring, doesnt he? ...where s the problem there?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And i fail to see why the Manaregen on boots and robe got reduced from 20 to 16..why? I honestly have no idea. Either you have many powerregenitems, then the reduce of 4 points should not matter at all. or... ah ... i got an idea.. maybe they try to scale the Goldenefreeti boots below those fabled 20 powerregen boots?.... but why nerf something to make everybody unhappy instead of raising the better boots by 2 or 3 points of powerregen?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am sure nearly everybody agrees if i say that things like this, would not happen if you carefully program the items into your game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I d guess they nerfed the robe, because it was absolutely freaky forcing people to camp for the robe for several weeks, plus having the old-rock-new-rock problem in game. It just made tons of people unhappy.  And thats why they dont nerf any other powerregen items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>someone said "now they dont have to ballance the game around the robe".   Nerf is always bad though. If they add an item like this, they should build the game around it. instead of hurting people later.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Gerrie on <span class=date_text>06-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:59 AM</span>

[Lyrus]

If you're talking about items that have the effect Ring of the nightblood have, they don't stack. Double check your facts. <div></div>

[Gerrie]

<DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text><IMG src="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/uploads/eq2items/8823/image/ringnight.jpg"><IMG src="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/uploads/eq2items/8997/image/extraplan.jpg"><IMG src="http://eq2.ogaming.com/db/uploads/eq2items/9207/image/prismaticrodofsacle.jpg"></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text><IMG src="http://www.imageuploads.net/ims/pic.php?u=3468VjBIB&i=29535"><IMG src="http://www.imageuploads.net/ims/pic.php?u=3468VjBIB&i=34592"><IMG src="http://www.imageuploads.net/ims/pic.php?u=3468VjBIB&i=34635"></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>is it possible to stack them or not?</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>does the idol of focus give powerregen?</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>btw nice effect on the screenshot of the ring lol. increase power by 40 every 0 seconds =)</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Gerrie on <span class=date_text>06-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:39 AM</span>

[Lyrus]

Sure, you can equip the items that have the Battlement of the mind, but the net effect of having all of them equipped is the same as only having one of them equiped.  My reply was actually intended for a post on the front page but without a tiered forum system like Slashdot, reples have no real logical order. <div></div>

[Orki who Pos]

<P><FONT size=3>Gerrie, they stack.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>If you have 2 rings of the nightblood, you get 14 mana/tick and not just 7 mana/tick.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>The only thing that was affected by this nerf is the invoker robe.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3>You will notice that they all have the same effect name on them, none the less, they stack. The robe and boots have different effects, and does not.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3>Even the efrettii boots arent affected, since they have better stats than the robe, and dont take up a chest slot, so people will just dump the robe and wear the boots.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3></FONT> </P> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT></DIV><p>Message Edited by Orki who Posts on <span class=date_text>06-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:42 PM</span>

[Lyrus]

Double check again with this command <span class="postbody"> /show_window MainHUD.Character . That will let you see the net effect of the items that you're wearing. </span><div></div>

[Mastire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tynii wrote:<BR> <DIV>If these changes go onto the live server I AM DONE WITH THIS GAME!!!   I have spent 18 days farming for the invoker quest starter.  I have spent another week to finish up GeB HQ.  I have put the time an effort into getting the best gear I can and what the *** does SOE do Nerfs it all.  What are the reasons for this change?  I am so mad right now I can't even put it into words.  THanks Sony for making this one of the worst experiences I have had on the forums.  Please don't make it the worst experience that I will have with this game.  Do something creative like FIX MY FIRE PET rather than Nerf me to the point of leaving.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thank you</DIV> <DIV>Tyniii, 48 Conjuror </DIV> <DIV>Fallen Disciples</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Can I have your stuff?<BR>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Armill wrote:<BR> <DIV>Nothing is still casual about it, its reserved for people who are hardcore powergamers. I already stated earlier that the reason its probably getting cut stacking wise is because its one of the easier to get, but it still take forever to get it. I don't think any real casual gamer is gonna spend forever camping a rock, or spend 15pp in fact i don't think any casual gamer would ever get that much plat at any one time, unless they were pure tradeskill. It might seem a horrible thing to do, but another question, whats the real purpose of the robe outside of raiding. You kill things way to fast in just a normal group hunting heroics to really ever need that much power regain. Geb's make more sense for them to have </DIV> <DIV>because its a lot easier to attain(sorry about the sentence getting off my cat hit the enter bar). Its not a casual gamer item the RoI its reserved for people who want to spend hours doing a mindnumblingly boring camp or spending 15pp of hard earned money. Just because its POSSIBLY available doesn't make it a casual gamer item either. If a casual gamer gets it good lucky for them, they never really are gonna need it. And if your soloing, and your just soloing solo mobs, which you should because they are solo, and you should have a group for group mobs. But the fact is if your soloing solo mobs, your not gonna need it either, i can go through a group of solo mobs and still be realtivly high on power, so I don't see how that argument works out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry about that being one big paragraph, but another thing that seems flawed is, a casual gamer saving up for an item of this calibar, i doubt thats gonna happen, they would probably spend there money getting something thats gonna help them sooner. And with the pickupraids thats not always the case, on Antonia Bayle we have a channel, where you can get into raids if your not in a huge guild. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I guess all im saying in conclusion is that this isn't a casual gamer item, because its just too hard to attain by casually gaming. (oh and sorry about spelling errors I suck at spelling:smileysurprised<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You are narrowly defining the words "casual gamer." Casual gaming is more, to me, and to some of the other people who define themselves as "casual," more of a playstyle than it is a function of time. I am a "casual" gamer. Yet, I spend upwards of 35 hours a week playing EQ2. How is this, you ask? I mentor, I do grey quests, I have alts, I will never, never be in a raid guild not because of the time spent, but because it is required and organized time spent. I prefer to log on, see who in my small guild is playing, and go do things with them if I can. Or take the entire evening to roam around Splitpaw if I prefer. It's a matter of not having my playtime boxed up in neat little packages for me. That, to me, is the difference between hardcore and casual. </P> <P>So, as a casual player with hardcore TIME on my hands, I was camping the starter for my sister in law. Sometimes with her, sometimes without, but it's xp for me waiting on the drop and I was willing to do it for her. She works in retail and her time is casual by either definition, but most of that time was spent recently on the RoI starter. My point is that there are plenty of people for whom the GEB's is actually more difficult in terms of organization. Yes, we'll do it for her, no doubt. I helped organize pickup raids on PoP targets, I'm sure I can scrape together two groups if I work at it. </P> <P>What burns me about this change are three things. The first is that one of the major complaints is classes outside mages wearing this. This argues that they should be looking at the effects on OTHER available armor for these classes. Why don't I, as a fury, get some form of power regen available? Personally, I would pick something with other better stats for me and more limited regen over the RoI if I had that choice. Making the RoI class-limited would ensure that.</P> <P>The second is that this changes nothing for high end raiding guilds. They still have the stacking ability of the high end raid power regen stuff. This doesn't bother me, they worked for it. But if you're not going to fight in group encounters long enough to see much effect and the high end raiders easily go over this limit, then the people who are hurting the most are those just entering raiding and low end raiders. Or, in the case of my guild, a small group of people who raid very occasionally and whose sole coercer is on vacation for a month. But if the point was to reduce power regen because raid content is being taken out too easily, this will not work. A soft or hard cap on regen would.</P> <P>The third is that I fail to see how putting this change in prior to the combat revamp serves anyone. Perhaps after the combat revamp I'll see why this was so very necessary, but since I have no clue what's in the revamp, it's impossible to tell. All we see is how it will effect people currently. Unless their internal testing is markedly better in this instance than it's proven in the past, they might well have to change power regen again when the revamp comes out. Waiting a month or two to be able to test how this will work in synergy with the revamp would have been a wise decision. </P> <P>This is not a make or break for me like it appears to be for some people. But regardless of whether or not people SHOULD have spent their sometimes limited time on pursuing the RoI, they DID. I'm not arguing that change might have been needed, but there were a lot of things they could have done to curb outrageous power regen before they got to this point, and people who spent obscene amounts of time camping this when they could have been doing other things are rightfully upset.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 39 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore<BR></P>

[Armill]

<P>I don't want to argue about the word casual because to many people can define it in there own way. But irregardless to the fact, why do you want it. Someone already stated that when they were playing with a 50 tank and just doing normal groups they didn't need it. And as you stated that you don't go into lots of raids or for that fact that most casual gamers I suppose aren't able to go in raids they don't really need it. And the person who said that there a casual gamer and got in 15 minutes in the feerrott, thats called luck. Because as already stated people camp that thing for eons without any luck. So don't call it casual because you were lucky. That and the trickle of the item into the game is slow, why camp an item, or spends months on end on a item that would be a lot easier to do with GEB's. Getting 12 people who need to do the mag raid, isn't that hard. So what I guess im really saying with this one right here is this, How does this really hurt the casual gamer when.</P> <P>A:They have very little chance of getting this item.</P> <P>B:Its not gonna affect them that much anyways.</P> <P> </P>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Armill wrote:<BR> <P>I don't want to argue about the word casual because to many people can define it in there own way. But irregardless to the fact, why do you want it. *snip*  So what I guess im really saying with this one right here is this, How does this really hurt the casual gamer when.</P> <P>A:They have very little chance of getting this item.</P> <P>B:Its not gonna affect them that much anyways.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Whether my sister in law would use it all the time is not the point. The point is that there are other options for players who ARE traditionally assigned the name "hardcore." And there are NOT other options, besides the two nerfed, for casual players, whether they raid or not. It was her and my CHOICE to spend our time on this, and we will certainly not bother now, but if you spend enough sheer time and energy, even if in smaller pieces than most hardcore players can put in whatever your definition, then this was achievable. This hurts the non-raiders who chose to pursue a very good piece of gear, because the raiders can replace it and they cannot. The nerf is to GEB's AND RoI....it is the nerf of the two together that I object to so strongly, and I still maintain there were better ways to handle this. Since you don't know our style as a guild, and I freely admit we're never going to be a raid guild as such, you can't say how this might have helped her or not. Who can tell someone else what a good use of their time is?</P> <P>Caps on FT never killed anyone in EQ1 after they were instituted, and when it became apparent that the cap needed to be raised, they put in a way to raise it for the people who were most affected. Just as haste and runspeed are capped, they could have used that for FT instead of doing what they did. I will drop the word casual entirely, and say "This hurts the people who are not high end raiders."</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 39 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore<BR></P>

[Armill]

How does it hurt them, because they can't have 1 power regain item. I don't think thats gonna hurt them. I don't have my GEB's yet nor do I have an invoker robe, but I still do just fine without them. You won't ever need the in combat power regain for fighting against heroic mobs you just kill them too fast. And if power regain outside of combat is a problem buy better food. At 47 if I want good food I go to the broker and buy some for like 38 silver and im set . This doesn't hurt casual gamers because casual gamers don't really need this, its not there live or die lifeblood. And most raiding guilds they need to upgrade slowly its not well were a raiding guild lets go attempt the biggest target, no they upgrade through time and thats how they pursue bigger targets. So a lot of them probably did start off when invoker robes. I just don't see how this hurts casual gamers who in the first place don't really need this item. Because it isn't a game breaking item. If you are a casual gamer and you came across good for you, more power to ya. If you camping it still I would throw it on the broker and hopefully make some quick cash before the nerf comes in. Because when it does happen ill have my GEB's and thats all I truly will need. So in conclusion it doesn't really hurt casual gamers. But thats just my opinion agree or not.

[Ashlian]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Armill wrote:<BR>How does it hurt them, because they can't have 1 power regain item. I don't think thats gonna hurt them. I don't have my GEB's yet nor do I have an invoker robe, but I still do just fine without them. You won't ever need the in combat power regain for fighting against heroic mobs you just kill them too fast. And if power regain outside of combat is a problem buy better food. At 47 if I want good food I go to the broker and buy some for like 38 silver and im set . This doesn't hurt casual gamers because casual gamers don't really need this, its not there live or die lifeblood. And most raiding guilds they need to upgrade slowly its not well were a raiding guild lets go attempt the biggest target, no they upgrade through time and thats how they pursue bigger targets. So a lot of them probably did start off when invoker robes. I just don't see how this hurts casual gamers who in the first place don't really need this item. Because it isn't a game breaking item. If you are a casual gamer and you came across good for you, more power to ya. If you camping it still I would throw it on the broker and hopefully make some quick cash before the nerf comes in. Because when it does happen ill have my GEB's and thats all I truly will need. So in conclusion it doesn't really hurt casual gamers. But thats just my opinion agree or not. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Never said it was gamebreaking...I believe I said, in fact, that it wasn't to us. But I still resent your implication that simply because she won't use this in many situations, it's useless to her. I don't think that's the case, and we were willing to spend the time and effort to get it. </P> <P>Raiders are a pretty small proportion of the game to cater to, and there should be a progression of gear so that the casual player can stay a couple of steps behind the raiders, though I agree that we should never see certain items at all. But most of them OR THEIR EQUIVALENTS should be attainable for the casual player within a year of the time the raid player can get them. I was always behind in EQ One and that didn't bother me because I knew eventually I would be able to get the gear, even if it took me a lot longer than a raider. Then the ratio of good items that were available ONLY to raiders was raised in comparison to that available to the casual player and the nodrop flag went in and I was screwed with my slow and steady plan until LDoN. </P> <P>I did get EP flagged through pickups on my druid in One, though not Time, and I spent many, many hours on PoP raids. I helped organize them, in fact. I will never invest that kind of frustrating effort again. To me, it's more relaxing to sit there in that mindnumbing camp you talk about chatting with my brother and sister in law on Teamspeak than it is to have to go outside my guild to organize even a little raid. But that is me, and I have no trouble with raiders getting good stuff first. I still say that the progression of gear from casual to raid is out of whack and I would like to see more methods come into the game of getting equivalent gear with more long term effort as opposed to raiding for it. With six months to a year's lead time, anything I'm getting by then would be totally trivial to the people who've raided the same amount of time that I've played. </P> <P>In conclusion, though....if it's not a gamebreaking item, then why did they feel it necessary to nerf it? And couldn't they start using a nerf scalpel instead of a bat? Which is all I'm suggesting in this case.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 39 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P>

[Armill]

<DIV>People complain that every character is too cookie cutter, now here is one thing that there changing and people are complaining. Well it ruins teh cookie cutter part of it. Why because every big raid guild had people wearing these things, this was the top end gear that everyone strived to get it ruined indivuality. And this can't possibly hurt the casual game as i have come to realize but help them. Why because now that those top end raiders can't get this and stack it with GEB's there probably gonna aim for the quicker to get one. Leaving that rock more open for the casual gamer who wants to spend there time getting that instead of not having the people to get GEBs. Thus its a good thing for casual gamer, and isn't harming them at all. Im not saying its teh most completly useless item for her, its just not as good for her as it would be for others is what im trying to point out.  But regardless this change is a good thing in teh long run and will provide for a more unique game until the next super UBER power regain item comes out that is easier to attain.</DIV>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Armill wrote:<BR> <DIV>People complain that every character is too cookie cutter, now here is one thing that there changing and people are complaining. Well it ruins teh cookie cutter part of it. Why because every big raid guild had people wearing these things, this was the top end gear that everyone strived to get it ruined indivuality. And this can't possibly hurt the casual game as i have come to realize but help them. Why because now that those top end raiders can't get this and stack it with GEB's there probably gonna aim for the quicker to get one. Leaving that rock more open for the casual gamer who wants to spend there time getting that instead of not having the people to get GEBs. Thus its a good thing for casual gamer, and isn't harming them at all. Im not saying its teh most completly useless item for her, its just not as good for her as it would be for others is what im trying to point out.  But regardless this change is a good thing in teh long run and will provide for a more unique game until the next super UBER power regain item comes out that is easier to attain.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I'm not arguing that there should be some changes made to power regen. But it seemed from many posts that it was nearly ALL the top end raiders wearing this that was the problem. Not just their mages....scouts and healers too. Had this been limited to the archetype it was intended for, and had they bothered to think out a more thorough approach to power regen, given their experiences in EQ1, I wouldn't object. I'm still not objecting to the actual change so much as that there were other ways to fix the imbalance, but instead of a long term fix, we once again get a short term one. I still think that this change will have a far greater effect on the more casual player, but that's just my perspective. </P> <P>The real problem isn't that power regen needed to be changed. It's the way they chose to do it and what I consider to be the poor timing of it. It addresses the surface problem without ever touching the root of it.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 39 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore<BR></P>

[Armill]

They had to change it, because of all the power regain items, these were the most readily available. Thats why they changed it so those 2 don't stack. And I still don't see how it harms the casual player enough to make a difference. (and stop with the whole qoute thing of what I said, that bothers me because i dont' know how to do it, i could always copy paste but thats annoying :smileysurprised<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ashlian]

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> Armill wrote:<BR>They had to change it, because of all the power regain items, these were the most readily available. Thats why they changed it so those 2 don't stack. And I still don't see how it harms the casual player enough to make a difference. (and stop with the whole qoute thing of what I said, that bothers me because i dont' know how to do it, i could always copy paste but thats annoying :smileysurprised<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>:smileywink:</P> <P>I haven't figured a good way to do it with any but the post you're responding to. But you just click on the little white speech bubble button with quote marks in it next to the smilies button after you've hit respond on the post you want to respond to. If I want to quote anything further up, I have to copy my whole post, go to the other post, reply to that and paste my previous post into the window so I can easily cut and paste from the current post. If that makes any sense at all. And if anyone knows a better way, let me know!</P> <P>I don't disagree that they might have needed to change it, I just think they settled for a great monstrous whack to the easiest target again instead of addressing the underlying issue.</P> <P>By the way, I appreciate your very civil responses. Always a pleasure to agree to disagree with a good debater!</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 39 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P>

[Handleba]

Orki, try this one on for size.  By your definition the casual gamer has very limited options on getting power regen items because they are not in a "hardcore" raiding guild.  May I ask what mobs you are killing where you need all of this power regen if its not the raid mobs? <div></div>

[Crowbar_Catspaw]

<DIV>20 + plat.  Some spent 20+ plat on this item and it's getting nerfed.  That's a tremendous loss to the people who paid that much money and a huge slap in the face to those who spent days or weeks camping the rock or killing lizards for drops.  I'm very dissappointed.</DIV>

[Robsco]

<DIV><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>1.) Robe of the Invoker is a extremely rare drop for the Quest Starter. Why would you nerf something that that is so Rare. </FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>2.) SOE Why would you not allow 2 different items with 2 different spells not stack.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>3.) Players who do not Raid now have 1 mana regen item to possibly get and you reduced the 2 items from 40 per tic to 16  per tic. That's a 24 per tic difference and that comes out to 1 to 2 spells less a minute.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>4.) Wizards Blow mana very quickly. Their spells are not very efficient for damage output. I always go oom in a Raid fight plus Ice Comet doesn't land on most Raid Mobs. Warlocks normally out dps me by 1 to 2 times and have mana to spare.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>5.) VLA  is extremely rare and has useless procs on it normally like 30 heal or 30 damage when you get hit. SOE when we get hit its for 1k plus. you think 30 heal or damage is really going to help us. Hell I saw a Fabled Wand drop with 20% Haste. Now tell me how useless that is.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>6.) Caster compete with VLA drops with everyone. Make VLA Caster only.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>As you can see I think I will be playing less and less of my Wizzy. I'm actually thinking about canceling the account now.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>I don't like the fact that I spend many hours on quests to get a item for it to be just rendered useless. Their is more constructive and less expensive ways of spending my time.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=244001022-17062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>Robsco the Humble Gnome Steamfont</FONT></SPAN></DIV>

[mastalynx]

<P>Gebs and Robe of the Invoker are both extremely overpowered and anyone level 50 can get them with minimal help. Everyone except the main tank in a raid should be using the robe and gebs as it stands now because nothing else is better.</P> <P>Both of the items should be reduced in their power regen. Reason being... Eq2 has no  items with 1, 2, 3 power regen and then they put in a bunch that are +12, +16, and +20. The time is now to realize that was a mistake and no matter how many people complain it is going to be undone, for the health of the game. Robsco is right though, taking these items from 40 a tick for both, to 16 for 1 is not the best way.</P> <P>My suggestion is to lower the robe to 8ish regen and have gebs at 12ish. The gebs actually take some teamwork to get is my reasoning for that. Obviously the expansion will have better items than these downgraded goodies, but it would be hard to top either of these without the "nerf", so it is neccessary.</P>

[Splatterpunk28]

<DIV>Yeah, this is a bad idea.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They really do need to have these stack.  If they lower the regen, I can understand that.  </DIV> <DIV>At the very, very least, they need to have some reimbursement.  Maybe they could have the darn robe sell back to the vendor for 5pp -- something to compensate for the time so many people spent on getting this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I guess the question that remains is:  Only 1 piece of armor for mana regen and 1 weapon/shield?  Or...is this just a one time nerf specifically for RoI/GEBs?  Is this going to happen to prismatic down the road as well?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I first saw the robe I thought for sure it'd be nerfed.  Instead they made it more powerful in a patch down the road -- from 5power regen/tick to 20.  Why did they do this?  Answers would be really nice.</DIV>

[Bi]

If roi is so imbalanced being used by every class, just make the requirements change to evocation - 210 (mage class 1-10 skill) or sorcery/legerdemain/enchantments I think that it should have a resale to vendor of 10p or something that is in order with what it cost due to  the flood of people who will be selling this at once.. <div></div>

[Orki who Pos]

<DIV><FONT size=3><FONT color=#ff9966>Splatterpunk</FONT> it is because of the way decisions are taken by the current development team</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>The method is known as lottery.</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>Some people gets the grand prize, others gets the bullet.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>There is no reasoning and no grand plan, just learn to roll with the punches, and hope you end up with the grand prize.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4><STRONG>Examples:</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Warlocks </STRONG>won the <FONT color=#66ff33><STRONG>grand prize</STRONG></FONT> some months ago.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>(From lousy damage to king of the hill)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Mystics</STRONG> got the <FONT color=#ff3300><STRONG>bullet</STRONG></FONT>. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>(They were pretty badly off, but sure got nerfed hard anyway. lol?)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Conjurers</STRONG> got the <FONT color=#ff3300><STRONG>bullet</STRONG></FONT>. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>(They did lousy damage, but then partial resists were added to their dots, so they did less. go figgure)</FONT></DIV></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Templars</STRONG> are targetted, but manages to <FONT color=#ffff33>avoid</FONT> the head-shots so far. </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>(Will it last? They are still leading the priest pack, but get minor nerfs routinely)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Wardens</STRONG> are targetted, but somehow managed to<FONT color=#ffff33> dodge</FONT> the bullet</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>(It was promised their heals would be nerfed, now they await the death-patch)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3><STRONG>Coercers</STRONG> got the <FONT color=#ff3300><STRONG>bullet</STRONG></FONT>.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3>(Their main force was mana regeneration, and that got nerfed hard. taking them from a pretty bad class)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>It seems totally random to me, kinda funny.. if it wasn't a game i was paying to play.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3></FONT> </DIV>

[Armill]

<P>Actually I don't really think its a grand lottery it just seems that they can make some pretty logical choices, and than some nonsensical choices.</P> <P>Wizard and Warlock damage for example, its not like there winning big or there was some grand conspiracy to make them better. The reason they got the damage upgrade was because, they needed it, and I think overall there were probably a lot more wizards, and warlocks in the game over the other mages. </P> <P>Second, a lot of classes listed, are probably gonna get better with combat changes...hopefully.</P> <P>Coercers, they might of got a nerf, but its wasn't a bullet to them. They are still a great class all around in groups. Assassin and coercer duo, which I did works find. Could take down names just the two of us. They are still a good class, and a nerf to there mana regenration wasn't the worst thing ever for them.</P>

[Gerrie]

<DIV>so many people say "they were extremely overpowered and needed nerf".  i m a level 50  priest and raid everyday since a while, can someone explain it to me pls?<BR>I d probably understand it if you explained it on this example which i eyewitnessed:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Quote:</DIV> <DIV>I watched a nicely equipped templar in a raid against venekor a few days ago. He had Prismatic weapon, Geb, Robe, Ring of the nightblood PLUS ChanterInsight. And he was down to 10% power when venekor was at 90%. Of course he was fullpower again when Venekor finally died several minutes later, but he got really close to oop with a Chanter and several items that are really hard to get?</DIV> <DIV>/Quote</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>isnt this the way it should be like? you go really far down in power, but then you manage it very closely to keep the most precious part of power left to keep the healbuff up which keeps the tank alive. Beeing nearly completely out of power.... slooowwwly working your way up while the mob relaxes.. 10%power... 20%power... 30%power.. swapping claritypotions in and out, manastoning etc, watching your health so you dont manastone yourself to death.. And BAMM here comes another nuke from the mob.. down goes the tank a few heals and you are back to a lowpowerpercentage, hoping that you can regen enough power till the mob nukes again.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>isnt this fun? the mobs that hit so little that you are fullpower all the time are boring anyhow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>edit: to the casualgamer thing: i d consider Lord Everling V2 a casual gamer target, but if you beat him without geb and without robe of the invoker, and without a chanter of course and without a bard ( there s no entrance shield : you may not enter without chanter or bard ), then you d really impress me.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gerrie on <span class=date_text>06-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:14 PM</span>

[Robsco]

<P>I Mostly agree with Masterlynx.</P> <P>Gebs is overpowered for not being a Fabled item. Almost anyone can get this with Minimal Effort. Magolemus is the only part where you need more than 6 people to drop him. Probably 9 to 12 since he is X2.</P> <P>However Robe of the Invoker is such a Extremely Rare drop now. It either a random rock spawn which is on a 1 week or 2 week timer or in the Ferrot loot table which people have gone more than 10 levels till Mobs are grey to them not seeing this drop. Fabled items drop at a much higher rate than that.</P> <P>Lowering the Robe to 16 a Tic is perfectly fine with me. If your going to Nerf anything Nerf the much easier quest Gebs to something under fabled stats. Im thinking 12 a tic. I think the Cryptic Boots have 16 mana regen a tic which are fabled so that should put it line with not being fabled.</P> <P>Plus people who do not raid have a chance to get a Mana regen item. 12 a tic mana regen is not going to kill the game. Also make it caster only. VLA should be worn by VLA classes only.</P> <P>I think this would be Win Win situation for everyone. How does that sounds.</P> <P>Robsco the Humble Gnome Steamfont</P>

[Chog]

<P>I have a question for everybody who owns the RoI.  What would be required for you to not wear the robe if it was not being changed?  As in if you where to find another chest item wearable for your class, what stats / effect would the item need to have for you to replace the current RoI (not including a power regen effect).</P> <P>The reason I ask this is for casters (and healers) I cannot think of any stat increase or non-power regen effect (besides completly unbalancing effects) that would make me want to give up the +20 in combat power regen.</P>

[Cowdenic]

The only thing it would take for me to want to give up ROI , is maybe a Chest plate Heavy, with decent wisdom stats, power stats and some kind of moderate power regen, maybe some INT boost also.

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR> The only thing it would take for me to want to give up ROI , is maybe a Chest plate Heavy, with decent wisdom stats, power stats and <FONT color=#ffff00>some kind of moderate power regen</FONT>, maybe some INT boost also.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Thank you for answering; however I said besides power regeneration since that is the only reason why people like to use the RoI.<BR>

[Cowdenic]

I think you answered your own question.

[Chog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cowdenicus wrote:<BR>I think you answered your own question. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Of course I did.  The intent was to get people to realize that if they did not change the RoI that the robe would never be replaced unless the replacment had power regen or was so vastly supperior that the item to replace the robe would be overpowered.  This kind of limits the type of items SOE can create for an expansion since all of the robes would be trashed because they did not have power regeneration, as is the case with T5 Fabled robes now.

[Voryn]

That would also mean that they're limited in creating lots of new items.. There's already a lot of items out there with power regen. They've done this specifically to [Removed for Content] off the non-raiders, and limit their enjoyment of the game. Sorry, but you just can't really enjoy a game as much when you work your [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] off for something and they take it from you for no reason. Yes, no reason, if the reason were to limit power regen they would have fiddled with battlement of the mind too. <div></div>

[Dorma]

I wanna know why GEB's are not class specific like DWB or JBoots ? :smileyvery-happy:  I want a set of heavy GEB's LOL.

[Swoonb]

<P>Yea and i want a shiny brass symbol or an electrified bone bladed wand....please..</P> <P>there are too few items for casters as it is ... most heritage items are not that useful for mages so is the boots being vla is not a big deal..</P> <P>the stacking is a big deal to me..it is a deal breaker and an accout canceling move in my opinion</P> <P>ive invested too much time in those items too see them do me like this.. </P> <P>if there is a robe trade in it better be [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] good and i would like to see a large influx of new items with any number of usefull procs ....use your imagination devs....the skys the limit..</P> <P>do other procs stack?...does 2 sanguine imbued items get a 10% chance to proc? ...not sure</P> <P>but i know this the robe is not a proc it is essence replenishment no icon to say it is working..</P> <P>Gebs is flowing thought a different quality with buff icon showing</P> <P>different causes same effect.. no reason not to stack</P> <P>i am very sick of sony not adding any good items for mages..what bracelet are you wearing at lvl 48?</P> <P>as i said deal breaker ..stop breaking the good stuff and fix the bad</P> <P>...hello vangard ....guild wars .....wow......eq2 the end of our days together is near...im sure you wont miss my $20 a month </P> <P> who else wants to play something else?</P> <P>/<FONT size=6>Petition bye-bye Soe no mass</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>let them hear you all!</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>fist 48 warlock oasis</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=6></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=6></FONT> </P>

[Armill]

Bye!:smileyhappy:

[DevinK]

<DIV>Still angry!</DIV>

[Armill]

Don't Worry! Be Happy! Don't Worry be happy now!:smileysurprised: (chorus)

[SilentSam]

<P>First off, there has to be something up when every medium aromor wearing class is shedding their armor to get one of these robes.  Seems like every level 50 scout class I see is wearing the Invoker robe.  This is a sign that there is some sort of balance issue with this robe if it is sought after by the heavier armor wearers.  BUT...</P> <P>...It really does seem like way to harsh a thing to do to those people that earned em to just totally make the robe useless.  If they were too powerful stacked then maybe just reduce their stacked effectiveness:</P> <P>i.e.  <BR>gebs = 16 power/tick<BR>R.O.I = 16 power/tick<BR>gebs and R.O.I stacked = 24 / tick</P> <P>Just a thought...</P>

[Rothgard-san]

<P>A nerf is required regarding the nature of bonus power regen. Nerfing the RoI and GEBs is one way to do it, however I suggest another solution (in order to appease both casual and hardcore gamers alike).</P> <P>Create an item power regen cap, and calculate it based on the current level of the player. Make this cap half of the current player level.</P> <P>A level 50 player would have an item (in combat) power regen cap of 25. This would increase interdependancy of the classes, all the while keeping casual gamers happy.</P> <P>Everyone would easily sit comfortably at the cap - however the hardcore raiders would have more flexibility with how they actually reach this cap. Someone could mix and match. Say, a ring and GEBs would do it - then the player could equip a nifty fabled chest item instead of the RoI.</P> <P>The formula:</P> <P>Level/2 = In-Combat Power Regeneration Cap (item based)</P> <P>There would be no cap on the in-combat power regeneration based on spells.</P>

[NUKER 1]

<DIV>this is not right.... i bought my roi one week ago. i paid 13pp's..because it was the most uber item a guy can get without a uber guild... 13pp's thats right.. where did i get the money.. well i'm a 47 tailor i've saved up the whole time for the good items.. this is the only uber item that would show up for sale time to time... right after i buy it.... its nerfed to the point where there is no reason to have it.. i plan on doin all the heritages in time.. so a geb is in my future...so after grinding up a tailor keeping all manner of things stocked for the players to buy i'm rewarded with just a loss of plat...this solution is not the right one.. i'm rewarded after all that work with. nothing....one day an uber item another day nothin special at all....i've never flamed or complained about changes in this game.. i started the first day it was online.. never in a rush to lvl just enjoyin the adventure...not fair not right at all.. i've decided that if this is put live to not buy another uber item.. not really a point when they can just make it worthless at the stroke of a key....will i quit playin...prob not i have alot of fun... but i can't tell ya how unfair this feels... i meen savin from the begining for an item that is worth nothin now? i understand the over powered part of corse thats why i finnaly bought it..but there has to be another solution that doesn't totally screw over me and anyone else who just bought it... there actually rewarding the people that ran past all the content to get to this robe while it was easy.. to sell if for all the money later when it was fixed to a guy like me..just before a big nerf..sony your wrong on this wrong wrong wrong.....all my work and saving so you can say..welll nope now its crap..... find a way that doesn't screw a guy like me... day one i paid for a year in advance and have been movin along since.. but i'm the one gettin screwed on this deal./.. not the people who made out on it... this will destroy my trust in the developers finding fair ways to fix and improve things... hell maybe i should start sellin my plat to ing... about the oonly way i can figure to get my time back..that in essence your stealing with this harsh nerf... so thats my post and how i feel..... so plz find a way to not make this nerf totally screw me..i don't wana work tord a goal just to have change your mind after i've spent months of time working on it.. almost forgot i tried to get the quest started to drop for 5lvl's as well before i finnaly gave in and bought the thing..so plz find a more fair way to make this item nerfed... at least not into worthlessness like this change will make...</DIV>

[Armill]

<DIV> <P>I paid 6p for my Robes some 6 months ago.  I wore just the Invoker Robes 40-46 until I got the Efreeti Boots.  Trash now.  The robes are totally useless.  The boots and robes are totally different effects.</P> <P>FU SOE.  Take this game and shove it.  First you nerfed my 50 Alchemist past the point of being useful.  Now you nerf my only 2 good items.</P> <DIV>November, D&D Online, programmed according to a hard set of rules.  No more of this nerfing items and people.  This causes you to loose customers like me.  Goto hell SOE and shove this game where the sun doesnt shine!!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I certainly will not maintain my account past November now</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, what is that, first thats pretty mean. Your hurting some peoples feelings. But ok, you said you wore the RoI until you got the GEB's. The nerf hasn't taken place yet...So they still stack for now. :smileyindifferent:</DIV></DIV>

[Cecil_Stri]

<P>RoI isn't totaly worthless... It still stacks with cryptic boots which makes it less wanted over all but still pretty useful for the light armor people</P> <P> </P> <P>Only problem i have with the nerf is they should have done it long long time ago... since they just made it so even more people did the camp and felt the loss</P>

[Keegant]

<P>Ok, I didnt read the whole thread but these are my thought. First off I did see someone say that nerfs like this are making this game a joke, to that I reply that [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] are you thinking? This game is currently a joke with how easy it is. This change actually makes the game more difficult, so it makes the game less of a joke. </P> <P>As a wizzy, I hated the RoI. I hated it because going on a high end raid, everyone but the main tank was wearing it. When you see guardians throwing off their armor for a robe, when they are going against the toughest mobs in the game, then there is somthing seriously wrong.</P> <P>This is good for the game. I'm sorry to all of you that wasted so much time camping a rock, but thats the way it goes. After the expansion there will be new "rocks" for you to waste days of your lives on.</P> <P>The only change that I would have liked to have seen instead of this is to keep the power regen the way it was but make the RoI usable by mages only. It was clearly meant for mages, but it was so uber that it offset the AC bonus of heavier armor.</P>

[NUKER 1]

i thin the way to do it now is get a writ grinding crafter bot...and buy what ya want...when there's a nerf you don't mind cause ya didn't earn it anyway..... sounds like the way of the future to me.....hhhhhmmmmmm likin the sound of that i must say..nerf away cause it doesn't affect me anyway cause i was craftin in my sleep....food for thought

[kaoriknigh]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Cecil_Strife wrote:<BR> <P>RoI isn't totaly worthless... It still stacks with cryptic boots which makes it less wanted over all but still pretty useful for the light armor people</P> <P> </P> <P>Only problem i have with the nerf is they should have done it long long time ago... since they just made it so even more people did the camp and felt the loss</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>No actually-- they won't stack if things go through how they are on test now. ROI and GEB were changed to have Battlement of the Mind regen effects on test. Now go look in the thread about Battlement of the Mind not stacking with itself-- so essentially you can only have  1 regen item and a Prismatic. So they are all going to be pretty worthless soon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit: This just changed apparently-- Robe is going to be 7 regen, boots will be 5, and BOTM effect will be 7 and not stack with itself. So they essentially increased the "cap" by 3, for 31 max in combat regen through items.</DIV><p>Message Edited by kaoriknights on <span class=date_text>06-20-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:40 PM</span>

[TooSwi]

These changes were necessary, though I will miss seeing 23 Robe of the Invokers on each of our raids... <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[jaythedogg]

<span><blockquote><hr>kaoriknights wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Cecil_Strife wrote: <div></div> <p>RoI isn't totaly worthless... It still stacks with cryptic boots which makes it less wanted over all but still pretty useful for the light armor people</p> <p>Only problem i have with the nerf is they should have done it long long time ago... since they just made it so even more people did the camp and felt the loss</p> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>No actually-- they won't stack if things go through how they are on test now. ROI and GEB were changed to have Battlement of the Mind regen effects on test. Now go look in the thread about Battlement of the Mind not stacking with itself-- so essentially you can only have  1 regen item and a Prismatic. So they are all going to be pretty worthless soon.</div> <div> </div> <div>Edit: This just changed apparently-- Robe is going to be 7 regen, boots will be 5, and BOTM effect will be 7 and not stack with itself. So they essentially increased the "cap" by 3, for 31 max in combat regen through items.</div><p>Message Edited by kaoriknights on <span class="date_text">06-20-2005</span> <span class="time_text">07:40 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote> Yea, Moorguard posted that <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=items&message.id=38335#M38335" target=_blank><font color="#00cc00" face="Comic Sans MS" size="7"><i><u><b>HERE</b></u></i></font></a></span><div></div>

[Mat]

<P>Maybe I misunderstood but this is so confusing!</P> <P>First Moog said:</P> <HR> In the overzealousness of trying to make cool things for the players, some items were given effects that were simply too good. Robe of the Invoker was meant to be a nice item, but not to be the only robe everyone should ever want to wear.<STRONG> <FONT color=#ffcc99>Ideally there should be a number of items you would like for any given slot</FONT></STRONG>, with viable reasons for wanting to choose one over another depending on what other gear you have.<BR> <HR> <DIV>Okay so we can get to chose either GEB or RoI. Fine for anyone who has a pair of GEB. We can wear whatever armor we like without worrying others pointing at us saying "Go get a RoI !" Not bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then they came up with plan b:</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>What will be going to Test in this week's update (11b) is as follows:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Robe of the Invoker will give 7 power regen.</LI> <LI>Golden Efreeti Boots will give 5 power regen.</LI> <LI>An item with Battlement of the Mind will give 7 power regen</LI></UL> <P></P> <HR> <P>And that meant to limit our armor choice <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0066>AGAIN</FONT></STRONG>, we have to wear both GEB and RoI at the same time in order to have maximum effect? Whats the point of even testing out that? It gets worse...</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Marina]

<DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Matek wrote:<BR> <P>Maybe I misunderstood but this is so confusing!</P> <P>First Moog said:</P> <HR> In the overzealousness of trying to make cool things for the players, some items were given effects that were simply too good. Robe of the Invoker was meant to be a nice item, but not to be the only robe everyone should ever want to wear.<STRONG> <FONT color=#ffcc99>Ideally there should be a number of items you would like for any given slot</FONT></STRONG>, with viable reasons for wanting to choose one over another depending on what other gear you have.<BR> <HR> <DIV>Okay so we can get to chose either GEB or RoI. Fine for anyone who has a pair of GEB. We can wear whatever armor we like without worrying others pointing at us saying "Go get a RoI !" Not bad.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then they came up with plan b:</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>What will be going to Test in this week's update (11b) is as follows:</DIV> <UL> <LI>Robe of the Invoker will give 7 power regen.</LI> <LI>Golden Efreeti Boots will give 5 power regen.</LI> <LI>An item with Battlement of the Mind will give 7 power regen</LI></UL> <P></P> <HR> <P>And that meant to limit our armor choice <STRONG><FONT color=#ff0066>AGAIN</FONT></STRONG>, we have to wear both GEB and RoI at the same time in order to have maximum effect? Whats the point of even testing out that? It gets worse...</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>hmm 5 power regen per tick , in a raid with food and power regen from chanter the GEBs will be hardly noticable , ok but at least you could give us versions for every armor type , u just making this great Heritage Item (not to mention the time spent on completing Saving Soles quest) useless to ppl.</DIV>

[warrior]

<blockquote><hr>Khemorex wrote: <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV>hmm 5 power regen per tick , in a raid with food and power regen from chanter the GEBs will be hardly noticable , ok but at least you could give us versions for every armor type , u just making this great Heritage Item (not to mention the time spent on completing Saving Soles quest) useless to ppl.</DIV><hr></blockquote>Food doesn't reg in combat :p

[Tanit]

Looks like you whiny crybabies got it changed, except you'll have even less regen now even with the roi/geb stacking. *sigh* <div></div>

[Nobol]

So since power items have/are being nerfed think you can finally fix this?Its really cool, check out this mad power regen for a con slot at lvl 50!<img src="http://members.cox.net/vanilla_coke/EQ2/exhalting_ballad.gif"/img>

[Lacee]

Food doesn't regen power anyway, drink does :mansurprised:

[Tanit]

<span><blockquote><hr>Lacee wrote:Food doesn't regen power anyway, drink does :mansurprised: <div></div><hr></blockquote>Not in-combat.</span><div></div>

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Tanith_ wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Lacee wrote:Food doesn't regen power anyway, drink does :mansurprised: <div></div><hr></blockquote>Not in-combat.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote> Potions do regen in-combat, but are of a very limited duration so that they are situational boosts.</span><div></div>

[FrostP]

<P>This is all down to the robe being wearable by the world and his wife.</P> <P>Every [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Templar, Druid, Shaman, Ranger, Assassin etc wears this and it is because it has become so common precisely because so many classes can abuse the power regen that it is being nerfed. </P> <P>The real problem here is the CASTERS really do NEED the power regen, food is worthless in a fight it dosn't work during combat.  Just like everybody else who can wear the robe and boots the casters are being shafted. Compare the power usage from a caster with the power usage from a healer or scout and you will clearly see casters use more power up faster. I am a caster and with gebs, nightblood ring and robe of invoker I still go oop in many fights. Casters only do damage when they are casting, unlike scouts who can back off and still cause damage or healers who can melee instead of nuking and heal only when nessacary.</P> <P>The CASTERS NEED THE POWER the healers and the scouts can get the power from screaming mace and gebs or tomahawk. Why can't you just stop the healers and the scouts wearing the robe and not screw the casters because of a blanket ignorant nerf? </P> <P>SOE you guys design the game unyet you don't seem to have any clue at all if you think casters are regening too much power with gebs and/or invoker.</P>

[kelesia]

I figured I should chime in. I've been watching this debate for a while. I'm a Templar wearing 2 power regen items - my GEBs and my prismatic. I am not wearing a RoI. I probably should have been, but despite being in a high end raiding guild, I thought it was kinda silly. I thought the robe should have been class specific. Besides, I thought the robe was ugly - the Ancient Rallosian Gown is muuuuch prettier. And how your character looks is a prime consideration, of course. (Yes, I am a real female)I would love to see something that was ear-marked TEMPLAR drop on a raid. Like a HA breastplate with +25 wisdom or something ridiculous like that. Because there is very little for me to bid on as a Templar with my DKP. Should I bid on a necklace that allows me to see invis or breathe underwater ? Should I bid on a bracelet that will proc if I smack something ? How much time DO I spend smacking at mobs ? Very little. I am a firm believer that my place is behind those that smack (scouts and fighters) to heal them and cure them of the icky icons they get hit with. It took me 2 weeks WITH the help of my busy high-end raiding guild AND all of my friends to get my GEBs. It was a long [Removed for Content] heritage. Now they are gonna become useless. Oh, well. Guess I'll wear my legendary jboots now <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I think this is just wrong. I am in favor of the cap. That would be a much fairer way to do it and wouldn't involve the nerfing of items.Besides... what role playing way could you handle your items being nerfed one day ? You took them into the mender for repair and he had a fire in his shop and you picked up the ashes and sewed them into a new pair of boots and robe ? And that's why the items sux0r now ?

[snipes]

<P>hehehe not to offend anyone but looks like a ton of people came here whinning over something. Personally I thought it was funny, after seeing people trying to steal the rock from each other for the past few months. Yes it does suck to those that bought the robe but really it should of been only casters could wear it in the first place then this wouldnt of been an issue.</P> <P>But instead the constant whinning got the item nerfed even more, and not only that nerfed the boots which screws every person that didnt care about getting a stupid robe.</P> <P> </P> <P>Daedan</P>

[bigmak20]

GEBs getting busted down to 5 per tick ?????????????????????????? What the hell ???????????????????????????? Cap the stacking don't nerf the crap out of the few good items in the game.  My GEBs are -huge- in terms of allowing me to solo (some) and keep my team alive when there's limited healers available.  Not overpowering AT ALL. Healers getting screwed again.  Take away our miti; take away our best heal; hide group cures when we're noobs and don't let us respec; nerf one of our best items; ..... 5 per tick ????????????????????  PLEASE NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Although... why on earth isn't GEBs available for any armor class instead of just VLA?  Like jBoots?  It sure looks like SOE feels only mage class needs power regen items.  Healers apparently don't according to SOE. As far as stacking GEBs and ROI to get 20+20 per tick -- yeah; that's nuts.  I can' t blame those that did it (I would if I had the items that's for sure) and I feel sorry for those that camped the rock forever or paid mega plat for ROI.  They're getting the shaft; but 40 per tick is too much. Why don't they cap the stack much like miti and avoid is getting capped?  Why take this new approach? They can get game sweeping adustments into the game like this on little to no dev time and they can't get me a simple respec for the group cures I unwittingly missed as a noob?????

[Armill]

I agree with the person who said look at  where your whining got you. Now the RoI sucks even more, so do GEB's. Battlement of the Mind doesn't stack either. Before you could of lived with a 16 per tick boots, or robe. But now your gonna get like 14 with both of them. Doesn't bother me so much, they weren't really that needed. I don't run out of power in raids unless i'm just spamming attacks anyways. Oh and to the person who said this is a caster item and only you should need it because of power. In a normal group, with a tank who can keep aggro and let me use attacks tell the sun don't shine, im almost out of power everytime, always before the caster. Same with SK's, so assassins and SK's are both big power drinkers too, not just casters.

[MadisonPark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FrostPaw wrote:<BR> <P>This is all down to the robe being wearable by the world and his wife.</P> <P>Every [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] Templar, Druid, Shaman, Ranger, Assassin etc wears this and it is because it has become so common precisely because so many classes can abuse the power regen that it is being nerfed. </P> <P>The real problem here is the CASTERS really do NEED the power regen, food is worthless in a fight it dosn't work during combat.  Just like everybody else who can wear the robe and boots the casters are being shafted. Compare the power usage from a caster with the power usage from a healer or scout and you will clearly see casters use more power up faster. I am a caster and with gebs, nightblood ring and robe of invoker I still go oop in many fights. Casters only do damage when they are casting, unlike scouts who can back off and still cause damage or healers who can melee instead of nuking and heal only when nessacary.</P> <P>The CASTERS NEED THE POWER the healers and the scouts can get the power from screaming mace and gebs or tomahawk. Why can't you just stop the healers and the scouts wearing the robe and not screw the casters because of a blanket ignorant nerf? </P> <P>SOE you guys design the game unyet you don't seem to have any clue at all if you think casters are regening too much power with gebs and/or invoker.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Even though I think your reasoning is completely skewed, casters also have their own ways of regaining power, be it enchanter's breeze, sorcerors canabalize and summoners ability to canabalize their pets (if not themselves as well).

[dparker7]

<P>Well, if they put these new changes live, you'll see a ton more people camping the rock.  16 per tick wouldnt have been that bad, but needing both for less than that?  Basically, if they want to make this change they should just go ahead and make the rock a 5 minute thing again, cause many classes are going to need it.  For guilds starting raid content, the GEBs are very necessary and lowering their regen so much will only make the gap to being a guild that can take raid content that much harder.</P> <P>And no, mages arent the only people that need power.  </P>

[Azamien-Dermorate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Armill wrote:<BR>I agree with the person who said look at  where your whining got you. Now the RoI sucks even more, so do GEB's. Battlement of the Mind doesn't stack either. Before you could of lived with a 16 per tick boots, or robe. But now your gonna get like 14 with both of them. Doesn't bother me so much, they weren't really that needed. I don't run out of power in raids unless i'm just spamming attacks anyways. Oh and to the person who said this is a caster item and only you should need it because of power. In a normal group, with a tank who can keep aggro and let me use attacks tell the sun don't shine, im almost out of power everytime, always before the caster. Same with SK's, so assassins and SK's are both big power drinkers too, not just casters. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> Yea your right!  except need to check your math :p </P> <P> </P> <P>5+7 = 12   </P> <P>12 < 16 (yes thank you whiners... the previously tested  version of the nerf is better then this ) </P> <DIV>now you can wear both for 25% less power regen then what you would have had if they were both at 16 and not stackable.    And lets be real,  the stats on both items suxxors so being able to ditch one was going to be a huge blessing.    </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Feel free to whine some more though you cannot make it much worse now!</DIV>

[bigmak20]

While I'm not happy with the whiners over a reasonable "nerf" (noting that the folks who camped days/weeks/months and/or paid huge coin for RoI  have lot's of reason for annoyance) I'm even more displeased with SOE who appear to have this attitude: Sony --> So... you think that's bad.... take THIS.  SCREW YOU MR. and MRS. CUSTOMER.  WE CAN REALLY SCREW YOU OVER... TAKE THAT!  HAHAHAHAHA!

[Wrapye]

<div></div>Clearly the Devs are unable to reconcile the kind of stacking of buffs and item abilities in the large raid guilds vs. what most characters in the game have.  In order to ensure that characters that have the best equipment out there don't overwhelm every challenge placed before them, the individual pieces are being lowered to the point that if you aren't decked out in the best, then you might as well not be using any of it. Then let's do that. Remove it from the game. No mana regen items.  Nothing that has an effect beyond stat and resists.  No procs.  Remove imbuing from the game. Problem solved.  The raid guilds will no longer be able to stack things such that the mobs are easy prey, and the common characters won't be missing anything. Will this remove a substantial portion of the fun from the game?  Sure it will. Oh well.  The devs can't balance it, despite the beta period and seven months of live game.  Just scrap it. <div></div><p>Message Edited by sacremon on <span class=date_text>06-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:17 AM</span>

[theriatis]

<DIV> <P>Hi,</P> <P>i just hope that these last changes from 11b NEVER go live. And i thought the previous nerf was bad. But it wasn't as bad as the new one. Why ?</P> <P>With the old one, less people would camp the Rock (I have my boots, so i don't need it).</P> <P>With the old one, it's easier to ditch the thing not needed (Well, that Fabled Rhodium Platemail of Devastating looks even better !)</P> <P>More Item Diversity. The Warlock loves his Robe with the Jboots. The Paladin loves his GEB with the GrandChainmail of Nagafen-Slaying (Haha, just kidding, but you got my point).</P> <P>So here's a proposal:</P> <P>Prismatics stack with everything. (Thats good - the quest is hard and long, and.... great story though <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Robe and GEB don't stack and get nerfed to 16. (And for that, let the Stone spawn more often, please).</P> <P>Battlement of the Mind-Items: Let them stack with one of another BotM Item and with Robe or GEBs, nerf them a BIT and not a BIG.(Less grieving, more fun, more item diversity.)</P> <P> </P> <P>Any comments ?</P> <P>Greets, theriatis.</P></DIV>

[warrior]

Yeah my comment:Just freakin nerf BOM that it doesn't stack with itself. DONE!Let RoI stack with GEBs stack with Prismatics stack with BOM. Why? Because the effects are all called different.You would be able to get 20+20+12+16, that's 68 in combat regen. Yeah it's a lot, so what? It is hard enough to get all those items, so why shouldn't you benefit from them?In combat mana reggen is the ONLY good proc for a mage. A mage does not need haste, does not need Damage on a successfull attack for they never attack, does not need % chance to stifle/stun the attacker when attacked, because raidmobs kill you with 1 hit anyway. Mages do not need any decrease threat procs, chances of 7% may save your life every 15th time whereas you die the other 14 times, so just die one time more.MANA REGGEN IS THE ONLY USEFULL PROC FOR MAGES!Do not take that away.

[Launceal]

Change BoM to non-stacking.  Nerf the robe and boots a bit (ie....to 12 each or so).   And most importantly, change the robe to work off Evocation skill.

[MiscreantPy]

<BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FrostPaw wrote: <P>The CASTERS NEED THE POWER the healers and the scouts can get the power from screaming mace and gebs or tomahawk. Why can't you just stop the healers and the scouts wearing the robe and not screw the casters because of a blanket ignorant nerf?</P> <P>SOE you guys design the game unyet you don't seem to have any clue at all if you think casters are regening too much power with gebs and/or invoker.<BR></P> <HR> <P> </P> <P>Do not mention tomahawk as an equal tool to screaming mace, it greys out very early and is thence useless. Scouts can't use screaming mace anyway. Rendering scouts the one archtype without an obvious quested mana regen item, at lv 50, that doesn't con grey.</P> <P>If you think RoI shouldn't be useable by scouts why mention GEB's (an obvious caster item) as if the were intended for scouts and preists?</P> <P>edit: prismatics aside</P></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><p>Message Edited by MiscreantPyro on <span class=date_text>06-22-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:36 AM</span>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>The ROI is a low level robe but people that have obtained went through alot to get it and some have paid huge amounts of money and some have camped a rock for numerous hours.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GEB is the high level heritage quest that is not easy to complete unless you have help.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How can they even compare in regen to begin with and why would a heritage item provide less regen than a low level robe? (this is skewed).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How can SOE be so callous and inconsiderate to everyone. After people have been playing for 8 months and trying to adapt to so many changes and screw ups now SOE feels they need to ruin som eof the best things in the game.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Leave the boots and the robe at 16 regen in-out of combat and let them stack. If it is not an option to let them stack then leave them both at 16 regen in-out of combat.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE you are really making many people upset and frustrated and the fact that you do not care one iota how anyo9ne feels about it is even more upsetting.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You should send out a survey and inquire how everyone feels about this game right now.</DIV>

[Andre]

<DIV>Make manaregen items wearable ony by mage class and thats it.</DIV>

[CyranoDK]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Andre Z wrote:<BR> <DIV>Make manaregen items wearable ony by mage class and thats it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Remind me NOT to heal you... its a waste of mana :smileytongue: </P> <P>(joking, but dont forget that healers also needs a lot of mana to keep groups/raids alive)</P>

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Andre Z wrote:<BR> <DIV>Make manaregen items wearable ony by mage class and thats it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Gotta love the mage classes wacked out view of evertything...</DIV> <DIV>Every class has power so every class should be able to use the power regen items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They should have left the items the way they were in the first nerf...now the 5 regen on the boots it basicly useless for melees since it has all caster stats on it and it is light armor. If they go thru with this change then they should make the GEBs like the Jboots and you can pick what type you want.</DIV>

[bigmak20]

<span><blockquote><hr>CyranoDK wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Andre Z wrote: <div>Make manaregen items wearable ony by mage class and thats it.</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Remind me NOT to heal you... its a waste of mana :smileytongue: </p> <p>(joking, but dont forget that healers also needs a lot of mana to keep groups/raids alive)</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Exactly.  You think you're being 2 hit killed now?  Try half hit dead no reactives on you the those AoEs come flying and you didn't get out of range; doesn't even take a direct hit.  The only classes that don't "need" mana regen are dedicated melee classes.  But even they benefit from it for special attacks. In order of priority; a very strong arguement can be made for healers needing mana regen more then anyone else in the game.  I will not make such a bold statement as one of fact; because that's class baiting and it's lame... -- but I will say -- I can't recall anyone ever demanding the mage help keep the rapidly dying MT from falling. so in a pinch who dang well better not be oom? ((and yes; the mage helps kill the MoB faster to avoid this situation; but hopefully you see the point)) </span><div></div>

[Armill]

<P>I am pleased with this new nerf, it shows that incessant whining pays off. First you wanted it where they could stack again and BOM affects not to stack.(which the whole BOM makes sense not to have stack in the first place) So they decided to change it so they do stack but now your just getting a whole lot less. Now with GeB's and RoI you get a total of 12 power regain. Which isn't enough to really warrant using these items. But now your whining about that and I hope they leave this way.</P> <P>Oh and i'm fairly certain that the whole predator scout subclass can't use the screaming mace, or at least assassins can't. And the person who said that it should be based off the evocation skill is a mage, probably a wizard or warlock because its an evocation skill which is there main skill. Yeah, that is still a dumb way of thinking of just making the item for them. </P>

[Kven]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Armill wrote:<BR> <P>I am pleased with this new nerf, it shows that incessant whining pays off. First you wanted it where they could stack again and BOM affects not to stack.(which the whole BOM makes sense not to have stack in the first place) So they decided to change it so they do stack but now your just getting a whole lot less. Now with GeB's and RoI you get a total of 12 power regain. Which isn't enough to really warrant using these items. But now your whining about that and I hope they leave this way.</P> <P>Oh and i'm fairly certain that the whole predator scout subclass can't use the screaming mace, or at least assassins can't. And the person who said that it should be based off the evocation skill is a mage, probably a wizard or warlock because its an evocation skill which is there main skill. Yeah, that is still a dumb way of thinking of just making the item for them. </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>While I don't agree that the robe should be mage only, the poster did have a point in that... mages have 1/4 the options as HA wearers.</P> <P>Again, not to say he/she is right or wrong, just pointing out the fact that mages can't opt for a breastplate w/ better stats.</P> <P>On raids, a lot of VLA gets handed out to non-VLA wearers... yet I have yet to see a HA breastplate get handed out to a mage <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Anyhow.  Was just being devil's advocate.  All of this is opinionated... yeah yeah, we all know what opinions are like...</P> <P><BR></P>

[Aery]

My theory is that SOE wants to scrap EQ2 entirely, since in comparison to WoW its doing horrrrrribly anyway. So they are actually TRYING to ruin the game and get people to quit.

[Armill]

<DIV>Why are you complaining about a needed nerf for longevity and stability for the game. Sorry that you lost one item with power regain and now have to opt for 2 items for a total of 12 power regain. See where the whining has gotten you all, you didn't want the nerf so you protested it so they decided to agree with you and just nerf the power regain on the items and let them stack and now your losing more than you started out with but you can't complain about your robes and boots not stacking anymore cause they do.</DIV>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>Hmmm......the servers have been very light the past coupd of weeks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope that SOE is not really trying to make people quit the game. That would be a shame.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not seem to understand the mentality of making things worse instead of better...LOL</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I wanted to keep my customer base happy and make it grow I would be focusing on making the game better for everyone and more fun NOT WORSE AND MORE DIFFICULT.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wonder if they actually talk about this at their development meetings.</DIV>

[Armill]

So a game where you don't have to try is super fun....sorry but its a good nerf that should of been done earlier.

[Robsco]

<P> </P> <DIV> <P>So what's with this Uber elitist attitude.</P> <P>I'm tired of people saying this game is super easy. For the Smaller guilds that are not decked out in full fabled armor it is not trivial <SPAN class=435545703-23062005>or</SPAN> easy for every Mob.</P> <P><SPAN class=435545703-23062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>The Problem is that making Contested Mobs harder or removing Mana regen does not help the Majority of the people on the server. I don't see a solution that will please everyone but nerfing items people have spent countless hours on will just upset lots of people and make them cancel their accounts.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=435545703-23062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>Everquest Client Base is Far less than WOW what I have read. SOE is doing lots of things wrong. I'm afraid if they don't get their act together no one will have to whine anymore because EQ2 will be history.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=435545703-23062005><FONT face=Arial size=2>Robsco the Humble Gnome Steamfont</FONT></SPAN></P></DIV> <P> </P>

[Armill]

<DIV>The fact is that you don't need full fable or RoI to have successful raids or anything. I certainly know my guild doesn't are main tank is decked out in all pristine ebon, and he has 1 fable item which is a shield. We have a total of 1 person in are guild who has RoI and a few people have GeB's, but we still do fine I don't have either. The fact is that the items aren't what makes a raid successful its tactics and plenty of careful planning, and a little bit of luck never hurt.:smileywink:</DIV>

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>This problem all started because the RoI offered another form of stackable regen with other kinds of regen and in the chest slot, theres GEB, Prismatic and then lots of BoTM items that are mostly jewelery items, so the RoI adds another slot to be used for extra regen.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And ofc everyone wants extra regen. You could say this problem stems from the fact we all use this thing called power so now we all want the same regen items, some people find their issue is classes wearing a robe they dont think should wear a robe like tanks and scouts, which is an acceptable argument to a degree. I dont like power personally, I much preferred EQs Mana for casters and endurance for pure melee types, but thats another argument.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now the problem, so everyone apart from MTs want the RoI as it offers extra regen in the chets slot and its something you can attain out of raid times, without dkp spent, so without competition from others bidding for a mana regen item on a raid and the luck of a drop. Allthough there is luck of a drop from mobs or luck of stone popping, but those two ways are not hard, starring at the ground all day every day till a stone appears isnt hard work, its just boring.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So everyone wants the RoI which causes a problem as unless you were an MT you want RoI, every other chets item was obsolete, all other robes for mages were obsolete, you would see entire guilds running around wearing this omni item.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So to try and solve this you stop GEBs and RoI stacking, which was a good move as anyone who wants regen usually has GEBs too and as the GEBs have 20 regen they will go for the GEBs, other chest items start getting used, no more masses of people running around in RoI looking ridiculous. RoI becomes a still rare yet rewarding item for those who cant get the help and assemble a force to do bits of GEBs, and also for people of a lower level to get a chance at something, scene as you need to be much higher for GEBs really. So you create a nice rare item for a more casual player to attain, still rare so still a sense of achievement getting it. GEBs still nice and lots of ppl still wear them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now Battlement of the Mind stacking with itself needed to be addressed as the regen from stacking lots of these items was mad and could trivialize content as players could achieve what was not meant for them to be able to do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But nerfing down RoI to 7 regen, GEBs to 7, BoTM to 7 and making them all stack is a bad move.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes there is a lot of regen about, but people with all the stackable regen you can get are the minority, just as raiding guilds are infact a minority on servers, far more people are casual players, and that was even the same in EQ1 the big raiding MMO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So now you intend for RoI to 7 be 7, GEB 5, BoTM7 all stack, its a bad move why?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well the whole arguement and problems here started with the RoI and how everyone wanted it, it was the only chest item people wanted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Making it not stack with GEBs solved that problem as people would choose GEBs over RoI. But now all 3 stack the problem has infact been made worse, as now with all 3 stacking and regen nerfed so massively on all of them, everyone is struggling to try and get every stackable piece of regen they cna get to squeeze out all the regen they can have which will be far less than what they once had with a few items.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Making the hardest heritage quest 5 regen in combat is ridiculous, 5 in combat is barely noticeable, making the RoI 7 regen is ridiculous, and BoTM 7 regen is ridiculous.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>RoI and GEBs not stacking sucks for people who have both, yes it sucks, especially if you put hrs in or spent lots of money, but the devs need to accept they made a mistake, a grave mistake by putting in 1 omni stackable in combat item on a slot that nothing else contends with, and then making the quest starter for it so incredibly long to get. Some casualties are needed to resolve this situation for the future.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What needs to happen is RoI GEBs and BoTM items returned to their old regen amounts. BoTM stays as not stacking with itself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>RoI and GEBs will not stack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So you either go Prismatic, RoI, BoTM for max self in combat regen or Prismatic GEBs BoTM. Allthough the first most probably wont have as anyone able to get a BoTM item or Prismatic can get GEBs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So people have Prismatic, BoTM, GEBs thats 12+16+20 I believe in-combat regen which really isnt that much (4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, its not more than a chanter can give you, chanters are still very needed especially on raids that last a long time. (Bard regen also needs to be addressed as its too low at 50)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And RoI becomes what it always should have been, a nice rare regen item for casual players who cant get Prismatic, GEBs or a BoTM item.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This way you dont completely destroy regen for people, yet you lose the problems this Robe causes with people not wanting any chest slot but it.</DIV>

[Dorma]

<DIV>Why not just leave the regen as is and make BoTM not stack with itself ?  As far as the RoI, not everyone wants the Robe.  I would prefer the heavy BoTM chest peice myself.   Vanguard Curaise of the Chosen.  I'd also like to see GEB made like JBoots and DWB ,  i mean it comes in all armor types(VLA , Light ,  Medium and Heavy) .  As a paladin,  i am wearing gebs anyway for the power regen,  if this nerf goes live,  I will use JBoots again cuz the stats are better and they are heavy.  Besides,  as fast as i burn power,  5 a tick will make no difference to me.  If all remained the same and ONLY BoTM items did not stack ;  IF a player has all four items, that is what,  68 per tick ?  Sorry,  i don't see how 68 a tick can be that bad.  And honestly,  it's not like everyone on the server is gonna be sporting all 4 of these items for a long time.  Especially the prismatic unless you are in a raiding high end guild.  Most will not see prismatic in my opinion,  but that is just an opinion.  If they do nerf them as last stated,  please make the food in-combat regen too.  Cuz for 5 a tick,  i'd rather wear JBoots because they would avoid / mitigate more damage then the GEBs would allow me to ward or heal.  And for the caster that thinks NO ONE needs power regen besides them is RIDICULOUS.  The healer brought up a good point,  but let me add to this too.  Every raid i have been on that has a 6 day lock-out,  we had breeze in the raid,  and the healers are still screaming for power dumps.  Now the ones i have been on,  there was Maybe 1 or 2 people that had BoTM item and never more then 1 and a few had prismatic weapons.  But for the most part,  they had GEBs and i don't recall seeing 1 person with the ROI.  Maybe we weren't living up to the Raiding Guilds standards being all decked in fabled,  or not knowing the " Easy " way to make the content trivial,  but power is always an issue for just about every class.  The healers run out of power ,  the MT dies,  aggro  changes and it's like dominoes.  We didn't wipe every time if MT died, but way more often then not.  Anyway,  i think it is pretty rediculous to say that only casters need power regen.  Honestly though,  i could live with them leaving the regens the same,  GEBs and ROI not stacking, as well as BoTM,  that would leave us at what,  48 per tick ?  That's far better then the proposed change.  Take care folks.</DIV>

[AdamWest007]

Simply put:  Do this and I quit.  Period.

[Armill]

<DIV>The real thing here is that people screamed BLOODY MURDER!!!! And SoE was like yeah, we see your point so lets let them stack to make them happy, now they can have there two power regain items stack again, yeah but lets nerf the regain on the power regain...so in a sense you have worsened the situtation by complaing about the situation.</DIV>

[Taksor]

<DIV>this is quite depressing to me since I paid 12 plat for my robe after searching for a seller for over three weeks since NOBODY wants to sell it unless they are like a guardian or zerker.  As an inquisitor i made it my priority to max out my power in combat regen gear because that was the key to making me a good healer, not necessarily my power pool.  So i got RoI, gebs, and prismatic and i'm doin fine but now my regen is about to get cut down to +52 to ... +28... a huge change and considering alot of people saved up massive amounts of cash to get a RoI they won't be happy.  Instead of nerfing it, make it not spawn anymore then release an EPIC MOB DROP for a power robe that's better.  It's not that hard not to tick the hardcore money paying players off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>oh btw, i cancelled my account 3 days ago time to take a break until things get better, if they do.</DIV>

[Abazagorath]

For the record, contested mobs HAVE been beefed up, and some instanced epics are getting stronger, too.  So, it is not just that players are getting nerfed and epics are staying the same - players are getting nerfed AND epics are getting harder.  As for you power-supplying classes that whine about the RoI and GEBs taking away from your usefulness, you must not be good at your class if that is all that people want you for.  Chanters are more often sought after for mezzes and (in raids) buffs, bards are used for buffs/debuffs, etc.  If anything, I have never heard of a group turning down a chanter because they "had enough regen!"  That is ridiculous.  If they were concerned about classes getting too much regen, fine, then reduce the regen on these two, but don't reduce AND remove stacking.  That is a double kick in the face.  I have said it 50 times already in game and I will say it here again - maybe if $OE actually PLAYED the game, they would know what it takes.  Some of the moves are so illogical and poorly planned that I wonder if they have even bothered to play the game that they're making.

[Keegant]

I am ammused be the turn SOE has put on this after all the complaining, and the possible fixes people are proposing are even funnier. It is obvious that SOE wants to seriously nerf in combat power regen, as it is about 3-4 times higher right now than is balanced for the game. Some people here are sugesting that SOE actually INCREASES the power regen, from what it was. To all of you that complain that the endgame is boring, this change will help. It will also help get tanks out of a caster robe. I liked the first change and I like the second one. The first I like better though, as it gives more options with you only having to take up 1 of 2 slots to optimize. With the second change you have to still wear specific equipment to get the optimum out  of power regen, and it takes up more slots. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To those that will quit over this change, I say good for you now go play WoW, where an 8 year old can get to lv 60, due to the game being so easy, as that is what it apears you want for this game. For those that stay, I aplaud you for playing a game that the Devs are trying to make challengeing and fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I have said beofer when 23 of 24 guys on a raid are wearing a specific piece of gear, then that piece of gear is broke and needs to be nerfed.</DIV>

[Launceal]

1) Kick them back  up to 16 each, let them stack, but make the robe based on evocation (mage only).  2) Put in a vendor in game that will buy attuned robes for 5 plat or something....make him temporary. <div></div>

[Armill]

Yeah, a lot of end game players complain about how easy everything is now this makes it harder thus solving there problem. Doing this now instead of even longer down the line will be better for the longvetity of this game. And why are people making it a point of pride to cancel their account. Is it the new fad, cause if it is consider me in baby. Armill ish cool now baby.

[AzraelAzgard]

<DIV>You dont need to make the robe use Evocation, really everyone should have only been able to use their own armour type from the start, Heavy Armour - only use heavy armour nothing below etc, but in order to do this it will mean the devs having to add in extra items to cover things like GEBs and add in class based versions for items like for LJBoots. So GEBs would have as many versions as LJBoots have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>After they made the most incredibly lazy set of items for everyone with the same stats on each slot for every armour type, I doubt they would do something radical like. Add diversity <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Peoples classes all look the same as others in their archtype, we all look the same in armour for anyone wearing the same type of armour and all our spells are copy pastes anyway, either of a previous spell in another Tier or infact a copy paste across the board (priest T5 heal 955 for every priest with a different secondary effect for each class that wanst thought out and is unbalanced) Everyone wearing RoI is just more of the same.</DIV>

[Mage-Apprentice]

<P>If there comes a heavy verion of gebs, plz make that the ebbc,shine brash halberd, the shield, heack evry heritage is wearable by a mage....</P> <P>God forbid it, mages having 1 heritage that is really usefull for them, but fighters, no they need to wear anything and evrything.</P> <P>/sarcasm off</P>

[Armill]

<P>Mages get to use glowing black and the eyepatch...those are nice....for mages and healers....thats pretty good</P>

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> AzraelAzgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>You dont need to make the robe use Evocation, really everyone should have only been able to use their own armour type from the start, Heavy Armour - only use heavy armour nothing below etc, but in order to do this it will mean the devs having to add in extra items to cover things like GEBs and add in class based versions for items like for LJBoots. So GEBs would have as many versions as LJBoots have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No... it would be pretty stupid to be able to use the very light armor at lower levels before you got to plate then not be able to use it when you got plate.</P> <P>Every other game I have played you could wear anything under your armor type.<BR></P>

[Dorma]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mage-Apprentice wrote:<BR> <P>If there comes a heavy verion of gebs, plz make that the ebbc,shine brash halberd, the shield, heck every heritage is wearable by a mage....</P> <P>God forbid it, mages having 1 heritage that is really usefull for them, but fighters, no they need to wear anything and evrything.</P> <P>/sarcasm off</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>So i guess a paladin is not a fighter ?  I can't use every single heritage.  And the only one that uses nearly all of the heritages are i beleive berserkers and guardians,  they get to use 21 of them from my understanding.  Can anyone confirm how many heritages each class can use ?</P> <P> </P> <P>Here's an idea,  why not let all classes wear all armor types,  but here is the catch,  there is a penalty for wearing armor that was not intended for your class.  Already the heavy types got the penalty of less mitigation for wearing light.  Maybe have a heavy class take more damages using the VLA or sumthing and it cost them more to repair it.  So let a caster wear heavy,  just make him cast twice as slow if they choose to wear it.  Same goes for other classes that choose to wear something that wasn't intended,  make some sort of penalty for using the wrong armor type.  Oh,  and a caster wants to weild BBC ?  that's fine,  make the caster encumbered cuz the sword is so much heavier to them than a wand or staff.  Ideas ?  Comments ?<BR></P>

[Armill]

I think its impossible to be encumbered in this game, Ive never been encumbered once in all my 6 months of owning this game.

[Dorma]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Armill wrote:<BR>I think its impossible to be encumbered in this game, Ive never been encumbered once in all my 6 months of owning this game. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>LOL,  try carrying 20 bank boxes,  you are completely overburdened and the female character walk and sorta do a runway " Strut " .</DIV>

[Pants]

<div></div><hr><font color="#ffff00">Next they will be saying GEB's and Prismatic's dont stack.</font><hr>Don't give them ideas you fool ! =)<font color="#ffff00"></font><div></div>

[Nature]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> DevinK wrote:<BR> <DIV>We sat there, planting our rears on the ground, wasting hours, days, weeks of our lives just waiting for that god-forsaken rock, because we knew it's power. We knew it was worth it. And hey, some of us got it on the quick-respawn before all the devs got it on their chars (and proceeded to change the spawn to an exaggerated time,) some of us.... didn't. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>GEBs are VERY easy to get. And if you can't, it's because your server is so underpopulated from other game-leaving changes that you can't get the 12 compatible people together for the Mag. It takes considerably less time to get, and it's required level is but 2 higher. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'll say it right now, and I'm sure you've already come to the conclusion yourself.... I do <STRONG>NOT</STRONG> care if you think I'm a whiny s.o.b. This is just ridiculous. If you didn't want them to stack, you should put it that way in the beginning. It's called foresight. You're developers of a leading MMORPG, it's <STRONG>not</STRONG> that hard. The robe was a key item in the game, and if you didn't know that before you put it in you should be fired. All you had to do was just think for one single day.... "Hmm, how will this effect the game."       Before you go ahead and lead people for months into a psychotic trap of a rock or a 1/1000 chest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You're sadistic, and you're not even doing it in the good way. The way that makes me think you'll never hurt me again, and that it's still okay to cuddle afterwards and share feelings. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jowy - Guk     </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>                                                 -I just want a legitimate excuse for wearing a robe. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I happen to agree!!!!!!!!</P> <P> </P> <P>I for one do not ever want to sit some where Ooc'ing for a Kei for 50-100 plat just so i can level my character. I hope you dont either. Furthermore, every time you were in a group someone had to leave to go get Kei which creates a ton of downtime and a major time sink for the group. I hope EQ2 does not go back to that.</P>

[bab]

GG way to go guys now we all lose :smileyindifferent: <DIV>Why dont we talk more about other stacking item effects so we can get it nerfed again!!</DIV><p>Message Edited by babo2 on <span class=date_text>06-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:36 AM</span>

[WAPCE]

<blockquote><hr>AdamWest007 wrote:Simply put: Do this and I quit. Period.<hr></blockquote>It went live today. Please post a browser screenshot with your account expiration date so that Sony knows people are serious about this.

[DoomedProf]

<P>From the patch notes:</P> <P> </P> <P><EM>Golden Efreeti Boots now regenerate 5 power per tick. Robe of the Invoker now regenerates 7 power per tick. These regen effects will stack with each other</EM></P> <P> </P> <P>Is this not what you wanted ???</P>

[Keegant]

<P>No its not what they wanted. The whiners want their 65+ power regen back so they don't have to think to play the game, just spam buttons and not worry about what CA'a are the most power effiencent in the long run.</P> <P> </P> <P>To them I say WoW has a nice easy system that is mindless and simple enough for the 12 year old spam buttons constantly mentality. For the rest of us I say good job SOE for trying to make my favorite game a challenge.</P>

[AdamWest007]

<P>I canceled my account this morning.  If I'm the only one, oh well.  To me it is about the principle.  For two months I have played this game with the singular purpose of getting the robe.  Others have as well.  Now with the patch this morning, I find that my work was a complete waste of time.  </P> <P>Seriously Sony, how can you nerf an item that has been in the game for months?  With ppl complaining about the item for months?  An item you have already nerfed before (by changing the rock spawn)?  You even said when you did this that the item was supposed to be rare because of it's uber effect.  Did you change your mind?  Why now after I and countless others have camped a rock or XPed exclusively in Feerrott to try to get it?</P> <P>That's why I left.  Now to everyone out there, ask yourself: When will the rug be pulled out from under you?</P>

[bab]

<DIV>It's so funny ...... why would players want to wear two pieces of [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ty armor when you can wear one that has the same power regen :smileysad:</DIV><p>Message Edited by babo2 on <span class=date_text>06-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:44 AM</span>

[Farl]

From reading a bunch of posts on this argument I am seeing that the main defense of the nerf is that it makes raid mobs too easy.  Considering that this is 1 of only 2 mana regen items that can be aquired by your average player that isnt in a major raiding guild that times the spawns of all the contested mobs this nerf hurts average players a lot more than hardcore raiders.  If other mana regen items dont get nerfed then this just creates a much bigger gap between your casual player and your hardcore players.  If this was the intent then fine come right out and say so but when EQ 2 first came out it was billed as a game where you wouldnt have to be a hardcore raider to be able to see all or most of the content/gear and to this point this just isnt true.  And this nerf will make it that much harder for any guild that isnt already  a major raid guild to become one.  Basically all this nerf will do is hurt anyone not in a large raiding guild since they can get or have huge mana regen in every slot already. <div></div>

[Tiberinus]

<DIV>They stack.. whats the fuss <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> lol</DIV>

[Cuz]

<DIV>" For two months I have played this game with the singular purpose of getting the robe. "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Didn't you get the robe? So I guess you were done anyways.  </DIV>

[HomeChicken]

<DIV>here is my two cents on this becuase i think this is the single worst update i have seen in a MMORPG since trammel was introduced in UO...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ok yah so power regen was getting out of control for some classes, like healers and whatnot, because they would never run out of power, yes i can understand that some classes needed a power regen nerf due to the fact that they arent that power hungry characters</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now lets get to my complaint, what about the [Removed for Content] spellcasters that are so powerhungry with their spells that they can barely cast anything before running out</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as a 50 wizard with all my spells adept III my average power cost per spell is between 100-250 power per spell</DIV> <DIV>in a raid group with all buffs up i am over 3000 power</DIV> <DIV>with [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] for power regen im gonna get off 20 spells or less before im completely out of power, and since in most raids i do these [Removed for Content] are so resistant to my spells, ima figure about 60% of my spells actually hit, so im at about 12 spells actaully htiting a target before im completely out of power with no power regen </DIV> <DIV>when your spells are averaging over 150 power per spell, 5 extra per tick is a [Removed for Content] slap in the face, how will that help me at all</DIV> <DIV>i spent more hours than any one person should to get the RoI, and ended up breaking down and buying it for 8pp (cheapest i have ever seen on AB), spent a long time on GEB</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>now those are getting the nerf stick, neat, making them both basicly worthless, so im back to no power regen</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so what are my hopes and goals now, lets see, as a wizard, teh only fabled items that would have ever really made a difference in a fight for me would have been the power regen items, so i have been crackin out raids all day every day in hopes of seeing one drop, still havent seen any, but now whats the point?<BR></DIV> <DIV>so now that power regen items are worthless for a mage class to try to get, what is left to really shoot for?<BR>yah there are some nice items out there, but nothing that is really gonna make any difference as it sits right now, yah there is velvet VLA, got a velvet cap, but its stats are barely better than the eyepatch,  most VLA i have seen drop doesnt have any procs on it, (fabled that is obviously) but the peices that do have procs on them are absolutely worthless as a caster peice of armor, its like [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] is the point still???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i havent been raiding for as long as most, but for over a month now we do raids every day, i see tank armor drop almost every day and the tank armor that drops is VERY nice for a tank, great procs, nice stats, whatever, i see a decent assortment of medium and light armor stuff that drops, not nearly as much as tank armor, but even there the stats and the procs are going to make a difference in a fight, at least help out, and out of all of the raiding i have done in teh past month i have seen 3 caster items, velvet cap, the fabled pants off drayek (cant remember name and server is down, but they the +16 int i believe ones, nightcrawlerS?) , (i wear both of these and notice no difference in anything from what i was previously wearing) and some two handed staff that adds +7 disruption and +7 evocations i believe (again server down) but has no power and the rest of teh stats suck compared to normal non-prismatic caster gear (tartons/stien + cedar wand)</DIV> <DIV>so out of these 3 items that have droped for VLA, they are basicly just for show, nothing gained other than the fact that the stats are maybe 2-3 + what i was previously wearing, and that they are fabled items</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>so whats the point, whats the goals here for a caster?</DIV> <DIV>what can we look forward too</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>maybe im just a newbie and i dont know of all of the new uber caster gear out there, but i have seen some of the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] out there, and its basicly just a joke</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this issue has me on the verge of quiting, and honestly if i would have known taht the patch was coming out today, i dont think i would have reactivated my account for another month last night, iw ould have just left it off, so now i guess ill give SoE 29 days to get their [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] together and either make wizards and other caster classes do much more damage, lower their spells power costs, or change around this power regen BS, or ill do what so many otheres have been doing lately, headin over to many of the other great games out there, im sure WoW and guildwars are both fun, and if nothign else ill have a few months before im max level and i really have to worry about gettin taken from behind by the devs again</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>please for the love of god SOE, dont just listen to the "have nots" and their complaints, make sure you check with the people who have been here longer and invested mroe time and money into your game too...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>we are people too SoE<BR></DIV> <DIV>*off to get a stupid ancient rallosian gown now, even tho thats gonna be worthless as well since the stats are going to do me no better than RoI, its just the priciple of the thing..* </DIV>

[DaenaeRavenso]

<P>Be careful what you wish for, SoE just might be listening and give it to you.  :smileysad:</P> <P> </P> <P>Dae</P>

[Armill]

Just lock this thread, theres nothing to argue about anymore and this thread is now moot and has no more purpose.

[Kayle]

<P>I agree with you DevinK.  The most frustrating part of it all is the fact that people have and will sit there for weeks camping a silly rock.  What type of game is this?  It's dumb, it's stupid, it's no fun at all!  Then complicate the whole mess with a nerf that ASSUMES everyone is wearing BOTH items.  It's just a lazy fix to a problem that should have been addressed a long time ago and a major head-bash to people who don't wear both.</P> <P>The whole fiasco amounts to outrage when you give customers something and then take it away from them, because you CAN.</P> <P>The human mind just reads this as wrong and no amount of justification is going to make this game succeed if developers continue to waste the players time this way.  Sooner or later people won't trust your game as we've seen with prior nerfs and just up and leave.  Players SHOULD care about that.  There's not enough people now in the zones.  People shouldn't be so quick to snipe out the "don't let the door hit you in the backside" comments because the same door will hit the person saying it on the way back in, believe me.</P> <P>SOE, people are upset with you because they never know what you'll do next.  They cringe at your updates because it's almost always, bad news coming.  You have to do something about this.  It's not good business practice in the least and you're going to lose customers if you don't fix it.  I don't think you have until September either.  People I know already logged off today in disgust.</P>

[Armill]

<DIV>I think your views only represent some people and not the majority of the people. I for one like this nerf more than the other one why, because it was overpowered and this is gonna give the game more longevity.</DIV>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>No need to stress about this anymore......what is done is done and it does not matter what anyone thinks.:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Robsco]

<P> </P> <P>Since the Patch went Life I have played my wizard in a few X2 Raids and 1 x4 raid.</P> <P>I have GEBs, RoI and Prismatic.</P> <P>He goes OOM very quickly even when I dont chain cast which I rarely do anwyays. </P> <P>I use my Manastone and Wizard hp to Mana spell.</P> <P>I feel very uselss going OOM so quickly into a X2 Mob being completely OOM when the Mob is still at 80% or so.</P> <P>I can just imagine fighting a x4 Mob now. All I am going to be doing is feeding the healers.</P> <P>I did do one x4 fight against Darathar since the Nerf but since Darathar has very little HP and each stage goes by quickly if the tank stays up =) Let alone my Fire Resist was the real reason I was their =)  this was not a problem but I dont look forward to any other raids now =(</P> <P>Most of the my Wizard spells are very high Mana cost to actual damage inflicted on the Mob.</P> <P>I think I will be playing more of My monk. At least if he goes OOM I can still Melee for about 100 to 120 dps with out any specials.</P> <P>Robsco Humble Gnome Steamfont</P>

[bigmak20]

Prior to nerf; with GEBs on I could defeat the solo arena champ -- 3 in 4 tries after getting killed 3 times in a row and figuring out a strategy. Since the nerf; killed 6 times.  No wins.  This is normal mode here not diff or very diff.  The GEBs allowed me to get about 2 more cycles of nuke in -- enough to kill him since he's always on red at the end.  Now I don't have enough power to take him down. Since the nerf; I've played about 20% as much as I normally would.  Just too [Removed for Content].  Yeah; it IS a big difference.  And healers do need power -- melee?  Please.  I hit for 30pts on a good day -- solo champ is hitting me for 200 to 300.  w/o power there is zero point.  Since mit on armor is completely pointless (apparently SOE never programmed armor into the combat stats?) it doesn't really matter I'm wearing heavy other then the other stats on it.  All in all -- quite [Removed for Content].  Example: parse my combat logs realize maybe I should be healing the champs DoTs quicker to keep from getting my health ticked off -- change my strat right?  Play smarter?  Next try... heal all DoTs the moment he puts them on me.  He puts them back on me ZERO cast time ZERO cost to the champ.  I clear them.. they're back on me ZERO cast time ZERO cost to the champ.  Play the game smart and what do you get?  Out of power faster and dead quicker.  Just an example of totally hosed combat mechanics contributing to my overall good mood.... I might give it a month.  If there is not final resolution on combat changes I'm done.

[Armill]

The nerf for robe of invoker and GEB's and the day splitpaw came out was the exact same day so I don't see how that all could be possible when the patch that nerfs the item that your screaming about came out on the same day the new content came out...

[Doom Proph]

<P>Yes.  I feel for all of you.  I have the Robe off the Invoker and the Efreeti Boots.</P> <P>I, see over and over, that the Splitpaw Champ kills people that normally would kill him with GEB.  The GEB made enough of a difference that they could win.</P> <P>I am a 50 Fury.  The only reason I can win the Champ at all is of Invoker + Efreeti Boots + Master 1 Porcupine, Master 1 Wild Bloodflow, all the rest of my spells are Adept 3, best Jewelry, Legendary/Fabled armor.</P> <P>Actually, after the nerf the Champ has killed me once.  I have a difficult time with him now.</P> <P>SOE, Frizznik, you screwed the pooch.  Yes, there was a problem with too much power regen but you over corrected the problem like usual.  The little amount of power regen that non-uber people got from GEB has been taken away.  GOD DARN you should have put in a cap not nerfed the items themselves.  If not a cap then a diminishing point of return after 15 points of power regen.  Personally, when I only had the Invoker I was about right on power regen.  20 points was not enough but at least it made a difference.  When I got GEB and combined with Invoker my power was rediculous.  I can personally recommend a 25-30 cap somewhere.  25-30 is enough to make a difference yet not be out of control.</P> <P>What you did was over corrected where a simple fix would have been more necessary.</P> <P>I see raids that cannot complete because of power.  I see Invoker + Efreeti Boots + Prismatic run out of power faster than I could ever imagine.</P> <P>I really get sick at your lack of ability to maintain a game.  People are loosing interest now.  Take an uber person and make them a smuch and walla.  They quit.  Take a mid road person and make them dirt and walla, they quit.</P> <P>Power regen is the key to success in most cases.  The power is gone now and the game is loosing interest.  We spend 8 months building and optimizing a character only to have 3/4 of its total capability removed in 1 patch.</P> <P>It is only a matter of time before D&D Online comes out.  A game programmed to a hard set of rules versus the SOE GODLY FAMOUS NERF BAT!!!!  I, personally, will be gone when DDO comes out.  To hell with this game in November.</P>

[Zapo]

<div></div>Oh man, this whining about the change of GEB and robe.... To the guy who can't defeat the champion with his templer any more without GEB. It's not because of that item it's because you are using the wrong strategy. You are a healer, you are not supposed to nuke him to death.You are not a wizzy. Maybe you were able to do it with the high regen rate of those items. But you don't have to do it that way. Use your other spells, debuff him, heal yourself with regens, outlast his mana pool. Get yourself a nice weapon that procs. I am a 50 Templer myself and have beaten him twice. Did loose no fight. Really, nuking as main healer weapon .... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> P.S. btw, I don't have geb or robe. <p>Message Edited by Anthur on <span class=date_text>07-06-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:39 AM</span>

[bigmak20]

Templar nuke 'em to death? rofl Our smites are wimpy. They ones I could land at the end of the fight when he was red dropped him before his 200 or 300 pt melee hits obliterated me.  Now w/o GEBs; can't do it. Sure; I'll find a tactic to beat him.  I still think it stinks.

[Dreit]

<DIV>Yeah, I wasn't happy about the GEB nerf, but you can still beat the champ, easily. I beat him on regular and difficult setting with no problems. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are all of your buffs up? May sound stupid, but do you have glory of combat and vigilant benediction on? Cast your grp heals that give you mitigation against melee attacks and magic as the mob approaches you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Debuff the mob? Cast reproach? Weakness line of spells? etc?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Throwing a reactive on yourself before engaging the mob? Chain casting HO's? Using your free reactives? Manastone? Potions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW...since the put see invis mobs down in SE, they should increase the regen on GEB to at least 7 as with the other mana regen items. Putting these mobs down there just made this HQ take even longer to do, so people should get the higher regen for the added difficulty of getting this item.</DIV>

[Armill]

Did you not hear what I said the GEb and RoI nerf happened on the same day so you can't say well before the nerf which happened on the exact same day I could beat the champion that had came out on the exact same day as that nerf...sigh I wish that they didn't have that nerf cause before I could kill him even though it came out on the same day.

[bigmak20]

<span><blockquote><hr>Armill wrote:Did you not hear what I said the GEb and RoI nerf happened on the same day so you can't say well before the nerf which happened on the exact same day I could beat the champion that had came out on the exact same day as that nerf...sigh I wish that they didn't have that nerf cause before I could kill him even though it came out on the same day. <div></div><hr></blockquote>The change was -announced- on the same day but didn't actually happen until the subsequent stacking changes on Thursday or Friday. There's other posts about that around here somewhere.  So yeah; heard you.  My experience was same as others in that I still had the power regen on day after splitpaw as I did day before splitpaw; but did not have the regen last Friday (after July 1 patch). I -will- find a tactic to beat this guy <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I just want the combat to make sense (clearing a DoT with a cure should clear it for real not have it auto re-dot you without the baddie casting; etc) </span><div></div>

[Doom Proph]

<DIV>Actually I just wanted to make 1 more post to keep this thread alive and tell SOE they are a bunch of morons.  I cant wait for D&D Online to come out.  A game programmed to a hard set of rules versus the SOE nerf pattern.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE releases something with little demand like Splitpaw.  How do they market it?  They make it insane in the beginning so everyone rushes out to get it.  The minute the sales reach the bottom of the down climb they nerf it.  I just love their screwed up marketing ideas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Get everyone to rush out, get it, then nerf it.  Personally you can kiss my back end SOE when D&D Online comes out.  I would rather play a game with a known, in granite, set of rules than your whimsical glory to nerf bat pattern.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Flame me all you want but it is the truth.  Those of you that do not agree then you know nothing about running a business.  I wish I could be a fly on the wall in the SOE marketing/design meetings.  I am positive their "glory to nerf" is a real implemented business process of theirs.</DIV>

[tek2]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Doom Prophet wrote:<BR> <DIV>Actually I just wanted to make 1 more post to keep this thread alive and tell SOE they are a bunch of morons.  I cant wait for D&D Online to come out.  A game programmed to a hard set of rules versus the SOE nerf pattern.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE releases something with little demand like Splitpaw.  How do they market it?  They make it insane in the beginning so everyone rushes out to get it.  The minute the sales reach the bottom of the down climb they nerf it.  I just love their screwed up marketing ideas.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Get everyone to rush out, get it, then nerf it.  Personally you can kiss my back end SOE when D&D Online comes out.  I would rather play a game with a known, in granite, set of rules than your whimsical glory to nerf bat pattern.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Flame me all you want but it is the truth.  Those of you that do not agree then you know nothing about running a business.  I wish I could be a fly on the wall in the SOE marketing/design meetings.  I am positive their "glory to nerf" is a real implemented business process of theirs.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>If you really think in that little brain of yours that there will ever be an mmorpg that exists without nerfs, you sir, are an idiot.<BR>

[xyl]

<BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> <P></P> <P>tek2k5  wrote:</P> <P>If you really think in that little brain of yours that there will ever be an mmorpg that exists without nerfs, you sir, are an idiot.</P> <P></P> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Dude.  Doom is right.  You are the idiot tek2k5.  The whole rush out because the new content has insane items and experience has been SOE's malicious sales strategy for at least 4 of the last 7 years that I have played with them.</P> <P>SOE's first 3 years was spent just trying to get something working right.  Now they have it working right and implement outright malicious sales strategies to get your money on the updates.</P> <P>Splitpaw is just another example.  Insane exp and drops for 2 weeks.  Everyone rushes out and gives SOE their $8.  Once the sales are on the downslide SOE nerfs it.</P> <P>SOE is still keeping Splitpaw some of the best exp in the game.  Why?  Because they need you to get to lvl 50 so they can get you to buy the expansion.  Is it coincidence the expansion and D&D Online are scheduled to come out at the same time?  I think not.  It is all a number and profit game.</P> <p>Message Edited by xylic on <span class=date_text>07-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:23 AM</span>

[Abazagorath]

<DIV>For those who still don't see the point of the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing, let's try it this way: up until the 40's, you have no regen items.  Sure, you can buy crappy potions that are worthless, or totems to regen out of combat (which is not really when you need the regen to begin with!), or you can be a blessed class like me (nec) and have some spells to turn life into power.  That being said, most people hit Feerrot as soon as they could, killing Huuptics and lizardmen for LEVELS/WEEKS OF RL and camped the stone and a very small fraction of those people got what they were after - an amazing robe that gives +20 in combat regen.  At the same time, people worked on GEBs, which was an all right quest except for having to find one of the 14 people who actually have access to BoF AFTER finding a 2 group raid in case they weren't in a raiding guild, for boots that gave another +20 regen.  So, everyone is really happy with the regen that they have now because they can take part in longer, more epic, and more downright challenging and fun fights.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>However, $OE comes along and blindsides us with this nerf, saying for the longest time that they are going to reduce the regen to only +16 each and not having them stack, making +40 regen turn into +16.  "Oh, well, at least my JBoots will be used again!" most people thought (if they remained somewhat positive), but more people were complaining about the huge nerf and now how much time was wasted in acquiring such items if they are made useless MONTHS before the level cap is removed.  People hit the forums in open protest, declaring how ridiculous the idea is.  What $OE does next can only be seen as punishment for people having an opinion - they allow stacking of the items, but at an even futher reduced rate of +7 for the RoI and +5 for the GEBs.  So, while we we promised +16 regen, we ended up with +12.  To me, that is like telling someone that they have herpes (initial nerf), and then throwing in a, "BTW, you have AIDS, too!" (subsequent nerf).  Then, to top it all off, they removed stacking of Battlement of the Mind AS WELL AS nerfing it.  Between my GEBs, RoI, Ring of the Nightblood, and Prismatic Rod of the Scale, I should have over +60 regen, but instead, I have 31 (not even half of what I should have).  And forget getting Cryptic Boots or the Tablet of the Cryptkeeper now since they will be essentially worthless since I already have a Battlement piece.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>THEN, to make matters even MORE fun, contested and epic mobs are beefed up, levels increased dramatically, and we have less regen.  Sure, we got a few more +int on the RoI, but most anyone who has such items is already over the 200 point mark in a group, making those 5 extra int points worthless.  The least they could have done is given us a friendly reach around while bending us over, but nope.  Fortunately for me, I can steal life from my pet and turn it into power for myself, making me essentially rarely, if ever, out of power.  But now, I have to focus more on utilities than fun by passing out Sacrificial Hearts as much as possible in raids, meaning that, instead of attacking the mob or debuffing it, I am running around like a chicken with its head cut off and being a battery for the raid, also meaning that I wouldn't be out of power since I am rarely casting anything else.  And my mitigation wasn't buffed (the one thing that $OE did right was increase resistances, so thanks for getting ONE THING right), so the RoI is actually worth much less than it once was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As a final note, all of the items that we are complaining about will ALL be replaced when the expansion comes out.  The RoI is blue at 50, GEBs are white, the Ring of the NB is already grey, and the Prismatic will max out at level 53 (if memory serves).  So, why nerf items that are going to be replaced?  Though these are the end-all items currently, they will soon be passed over rather freely by people aiming for 60 (and higher with subsequent expansions).  Though the idea of making the game more challenging to established, raid-level people is a good one, it was kind of like they came up with two solutions (nerfing items and buffing mobs), that essentially kind of made it a bigger issue than just really doing quality work on the mobs.  In fact, why not just make new contested mobs or instances in existing zones instead of making old mobs stronger?  The ideas are in the right place; their heads are not.</DIV>

[Armill]

Ok, people complaining about Splitpaw there was one mistake made in that AP. What initally should of been done is had the lockout timers on everything at least be 2 hours and keep the coin reward. The exp in its alright if you got vitality but if ya dont' it stinks. And don't complain about it either I mean come on...SoE IS THE DEVIL THEY MADE ME WAIST 8 DOLLARS THEY ARE THE DEVIL DEVIL....8 DOLLARS THE DEVIL...BLARGIN GLOOBIN.

[dejahtho]

<div></div><p>Message Edited by dejahthors on <span class=date_text>07-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:34 PM</span>

[Doom Proph]

<P>Abazagorath: Well PUT.  I really am starting to hate SOE's entire approach to managing a game.  They sure do a great job of creating a game because they have millions to throw at it.  The developers are awesome in my opinion.  It is the game designers and the whole QA/Testing department that must be shot.</P> <P>Developers do what they are told.  They just write code.  The designers are the ones screwing up the content.  The QA/Testing department is screwed up because they dont have a character transfer tool to the test server.  The existing test server population is not enough to prevent major issues from hitting the production servers.</P> <P>The whole GEB/Invoker is bullsh!t.  Out of Power not even 1/2 way through a fight.  They give you something.  They build up your dependency on it then they nerf it.  Screw this game in November for D&D Online.  At least there I know what I am dealing with versus the bull of the SOE nerf stick.  I want to play a game I enjoy versus a game I enjoy, put 1000's of hours into, then have everything I worked for to be nerfed in 1 patch.</P> <P>Yes, something needed to be done with power regen but they over did it and they increased the Epics.  It is bullsh!t SOE.  Your game designers obviously cant do their jobs properly.</P>