Copies and selling Rares

[Shunidar]

<DIV>Hey, we posted this on the other forum, but just I thought I would ask here to see if any of the FoH people could tell us.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It appears that with this last batch of copies, they brought over a LOT of T5 rares and other valuable things from live to test and are selling them on test brokers (~40gp for T5 rares).  Normally, of course, that would not be a big deal except that all those rares are <U>copies</U> and thus not gone from the real characters on live.  Can anyone who knows for sure tell me what exactly you are doing with all the free plat that is being generated?  The only things I can think of are not particularly constructive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can money be taken back to live with you?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are you just giving it away to friends on test?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are you stockpiling it on permanent alts on test?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Shunidar on <span class=date_text>06-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:26 AM</span>

[Macross_JR]

<span><blockquote><hr>Shunidar wrote:<div>Hey, we posted this on the other forum, but just I thought I would ask here to see if any of the FoH people could tell us.  </div> <div> </div> <div>It appears that with this last batch of copies, FoH brought over a LOT of T5 rares and other valuable things from live to test and are selling them on test brokers (~40gp for T5 rares).  Normally, of course, that would not be a big deal except that all those rares are <u>copies</u> and thus not gone from the real characters on live.  Can anyone who knows for sure tell me what exactly you are doing with all the free plat that is being generated?  The only things I can think of are not particularly constructive.</div> <div> </div> <div>Can money be taken back to live with you?</div> <div> </div> <div>Are you just giving it away to friends on test?</div> <div> </div> <div>Are you stockpiling it on permanent alts on test?</div><hr></blockquote>I'm pretty sure this thread is going to get locked.  Okay first thing, when the characters are copied over, they just copy the character files, so they don't need to copy back cause they never deleted the characters off of the other server, so that would answer your first question.  Secondly, you should not be asking the second two questions at all on an open forum, it is just rude. Oh and one more thing, how do you know they copied t5 rares, they were copied to test raids, which coincidently drops rares also, they could have just gotten them from there.  I'm sorry but your post just made you look like an [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot].  You should have sent a PM to someone not put this on an open forum.</span><div></div>

[Lemon]

<P><FONT size=1>The OP cant have done much if any hi end raiding becasue if they had they would have some grasp of the amount of t5 crafting rares that drop on an average night of epic instanced raiding. FoH no doubt has all the t5 crafted items they can probably use and so are puting them on sale rather than letting them sit in the bank and gather dust.</FONT></P>

[Palleon]

<P>What people do with their own money is their own business.</P> <P>FoH wasnt and will not be the only guild to be copied to help test the raid content for the rest of us. And there is no way to move things between servers.</P> <P>Go and raid for a few hours and you too can have all the t5 rares you want!</P> <P>And 40g for a t5 rare? Bargain!! Wish other high end guilds were so generous! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Shunidar]

<DIV>I apologize if the original post sounded more confrontational than it was intended.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The concern is are they copied.  As in, are the rares from live server copied over to test (not moved) or are they merely ones that were found from testing raid zones (unlikely, but possible).  If so, the generation of free money (because they were copied) distorts the economy on test.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you can imagine, T5 rares are still very uncommon on test.  I imagine it feels quite like watching bot groups dump crazy amounts of rares on to live servers. It is distorting and not necessarily welcome.  Of course, if the money never goes anywhere, it doesn't really negatively impact us.  In fact, it helps suck away some of the excess cash on the server from the heritage item bugs from earlier.  IF, however, the moeny is just handed off, it puts us right back at square one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Palleon wrote:<BR> <P>And 40g for a t5 rare? Bargain!! Wish other high end guilds were so generous! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Again, it would only be generous if the rares were legit.</DIV>

[Macross_JR]

The thing of it is, is characters are not coppied from test to live servers.  They don't do this for the simple fact that people could have items that on themselves that SOE doesn't want on live, be it rares, new items, or anything of the such.  And sorry, but I must not be thinking right or something, last I knew people don't play on test to get rich, they play on test...well to test. <div></div>

[Evadne]

<div></div>It isnt FOH.Just copies.<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In all fairness, FoH has taken enough grief. I am not troubled by the brokered items. They are selling not buying. Not taking content from us, but offering it to us. We can choose to not buy it.  If the pricing is outta whack no one buys it. We all support the real artisans on our server.  No doubts that the average test player will betray the trust the server has built in this area.  I personally have no issue with the copies selling. They need to repair their gear too.~EvaEvadne Tal'Rhuen Fhir Rhuen<div></div><p>Message Edited by Evadne on <span class="date_text">06-15-2005</span><span class="time_text">10:08 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Evadne on <span class="date_text">06-15-2005</span><span class="time_text">10:08 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Evadne on <span class=date_text>06-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:09 AM</span>

[EtoilePirate]

First of all, the guild copied in the last two days to test stuff was NOT FoH. Secondly, last night I looked on the broker and the Fence and even though there were still a good dozen of them online, virtually none of their goods were listed anymore.  So I'd say that in one way or another, whether through courtesy or intervention, the problem's solved itself. <div></div>

[Shunidar]

I apologize for implicating FoH if it was not them. FoH has almost become a second hand name for people that copy over to test.   I went back and removed the refrences to FoH and changed it to just copies in general. <p>Message Edited by Shunidar on <span class=date_text>06-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:26 AM</span>

[CyranoDK]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Shunidar wrote:<BR> <DIV>I apologize if the original post sounded more confrontational than it was intended.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The concern is are they copied.  As in, are the rares from live server copied over to test (not moved) or are they merely ones that were found from testing raid zones (unlikely, but possible).  If so, the generation of free money (because they were copied) distorts the economy on test.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you can imagine, T5 rares are still very uncommon on test.  I imagine it feels quite like watching bot groups dump crazy amounts of rares on to live servers. It is distorting and not necessarily welcome.  Of course, if the money never goes anywhere, it doesn't really negatively impact us.  In fact, it helps suck away some of the excess cash on the server from the heritage item bugs from earlier.  IF, however, the moeny is just handed off, it puts us right back at square one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Palleon wrote:<BR> <P>And 40g for a t5 rare? Bargain!! Wish other high end guilds were so generous! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Again, it would only be generous if the rares were legit.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Excuse me... but...</P> <P>isnt the name of the server TEST?</P> <P>Which means that SoE can do whatever they [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] well please.. They can choose to give everybody 1.000.000 plat for that matter.</P> <P>The server has one purpose only and that is to TEST new updates, its NOT meant to be played like a normal server.</P> <P> </P> <P>(Btw...SoE please give me 1.000.000 plat I need to.... eh...to... eh... test... yeah thats it... I need to test something  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )<BR></P>

[Evadne]

Actually Cyrano it is meant to be played.  Because that is exactly what they want. Straight from the developers.  It is a priority for them to maintain a stable community on test.  Even if only half the players actually test, feedback and participate in the process, we need the others to make a viable platform to do it.  If you look closely, we have shown that it is a viable server and we have created a valid infrastructure designed to foster community and to provide the feedback the devs require.  Copies are a part of the process that is closely monitored by the team.  The guild copied over this time has shown themselves to follow in FoH's footsteps in courtesy and value.  Welcome to test.  I trust the judgement of the dev team implicitly in this area. They are not going to drop off a bunch of griefers like a ship of pirates being dropped off on a small island commune..... Remember---Be One With The Monkey ~Eva <div></div>

[WuphonsReach]

We were surprised that the copy process included bringing over the contents of house vaults as well as the "for sale" flags on those contents. My guess is that they merely used a slightly modified version of the /movelog code (and the less they changed it the better chance that the copy process would run properly).Will it make a difference in the long run on Test or Live servers? Not really:- These copied characters will vanish in a bit (either through removal by the devs or just because they didn't come to stay). So it's a short-term blip for the Test server economy.- It introduced some new rares into the hands of Test players (quite a few players admitted to buying up some of these). That money, given to the 'copies', will probably vanish from the server in a few weeks. So essentially, that money has exited the economy as those copied players will probably never spend it. That keeps inflation down in the Test economy.- The money obtained on Test will never go back to Live servers. So no exploit involved just because the copied players ended up with duplicates of rares. But, since those are on different servers, they're not really 'dupes' because you can't hold both of them in your hands at the same time.If anything, it proves to be a slight "Christmas in June" for players on the Test server (if they have the cash to afford "Live" server prices for those rares).Now, as to the Test server economy (such as it is). The best way to describe test is that you're living in a small town or frontier town. Self-sufficiency, knowing how to barter, and being good at networking are key skills if you want to enjoy playing on Test. There are a few people who sell goods, other folks prefer to rely strictly on barter.Copies coming to Test is a bit like a tour guide (the devs) bringing a bunch of game hunters (the raid-capable guilds) in so that they can go big-game hunting in a newly discovered portion of Norrath. Except that they don't get to take home anything but memories (must be a 'catch-and-release' hunt). (And that's an iffy analogy... as all analogies are.)

[CyranoDK]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Evadne wrote:<BR>Actually Cyrano it is meant to be played.  Because that is exactly what they want. Straight from the developers.  It is a priority for them to maintain a stable community on test.  Even if only half the players actually test, feedback and participate in the process, we need the others to make a viable platform to do it.  If you look closely, we have shown that it is a viable server and we have created a valid infrastructure designed to foster community and to provide the feedback the devs require.  Copies are a part of the process that is closely monitored by the team.  <BR><BR>The guild copied over this time has shown themselves to follow in FoH's footsteps in courtesy and value.  Welcome to test.  I trust the judgement of the dev team implicitly in this area. They are not going to drop off a bunch of griefers like a ship of pirates being dropped off on a small island commune.....<BR><BR>Remember---Be One With The Monkey<BR><BR><BR>~Eva<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I stand corrected. Sorry for being ignorant and for sounding harsh in my previous post.

[Dyeana]

<P>--------------------------------------------------</P> <P>Now, as to the Test server economy (such as it is). The best way to describe test is that you're living in a small town or frontier town. Self-sufficiency, knowing how to barter, and being good at networking are key skills if you want to enjoy playing on Test. There are a few people who sell goods, other folks prefer to rely strictly on barter.<BR><BR>Copies coming to Test is a bit like a tour guide (the devs) bringing a bunch of game hunters (the raid-capable guilds) in so that they can go big-game hunting in a newly discovered portion of Norrath. Except that they don't get to take home anything but memories (must be a 'catch-and-release' hunt).<BR><BR>(And that's an iffy analogy... as all analogies are.)</P> <P></P> <DIV>--<BR>Snabbik of Test</DIV> <DIV>-------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Living in an area where there is a lot of tourism, the only problem presented was the addition of the sale content adding to Test  server and taking what few coins away from our economy.  But the second hidden part I deplore is supporting these copies.  I ended up breaking from EQ1 since my class, an enchantress, was reduced to merely supporting other uber players and not being able to play the game and enjoy it as they were.  I still deplore supporting tourists, althought some do indeed enjoy it and thrive at it.  So much for trying to get a local economy going. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dye</DIV>

[Lyrus]

You know, honestly, selling a tier 5 rare like ebon on the test server's a pretty benevolent thing if you ask me.  Now more testers can be in rare crafted armor, etc and can test out some of the harder stuff, and this is a bad thing?  I of course wouldn't be disappointed if Noah gave me an Ebon on permafrost though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Mystiq]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Evadne wrote:<BR></P> They need to repair their gear too.<BR><BR>~Eva<BR><BR>Evadne Tal'Rhuen<BR>Fhir Rhuen<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Amen to that :smileysad:</P> <P>But really, to my knowledge nobody from FoH has tried to mess up the economy on test with copied over rares and loot. This isn't something that I think anyone copied over is encouraged to do, nor do I think us copied folks even spend enough time on test to do such things.</P> <P>Even if folks were bringing these things into the economy....is it really bad? Here are some great materials to make some nice armor, weapons and spell upgrades - things I'm guessing are slighty lacking on test but are in constant supply on the live servers. Wouldn't experiencing the world with "the best you can scrounge up" for the purpose of testing gameplay make for a more skewed view of things than testing the gameplay in the gear of comparable players on the live servers?</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Vathral]

<div></div>The idea to help testers craft stuff seems cool. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Vathral on <span class=date_text>06-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:12 AM</span>

[Evadne]

I am happy to have you sell whatever on the broker. Just bear in mind, the heritage money is mostly gone.  Many of the lower level players don't have any cash to speak of because there is no regular goods and services economy.  So, your prices are probebly high. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Welcome to Test. <div></div>