DON'T LET THEM RUIN EQ2 LIKE THEY DID EQ1 ! ! !

[Rabbit24]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>This is a quote from Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer for eq2.<hr><b>Scott Hartsman:</b> This is an interesting experiment for us, based on a similar theory to what worked out very well in EQ: Lost Dungeons of Norrath.Many of the new areas in The Splitpaw Saga will be dungeon instances that let people from levels 20 through 50 enjoy the new tale.These will be private instances that spawn creatures appropriate for the level of those who are going in to play. It should be an enjoyable challenge for many more people than an adventure pack that doesn’t make use of this level scaling.We’re looking forward to seeing what people think. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr>LDON and scaling zones were the silver bullet that killed eq1. People no longer used the normal zones to level and all anyone ever did was LDON from 20 - 65. The second LDON came out all, of the other zones on my server went dead. No one leveled anywhere else at lower levels and you could hardly find a group unless it was in an LDON (the eq1 version of this) or a raid. The entire game became the LDON zones and it became very, very repetitive. People entirely forgot the other zones even existed because this was such a convenient way to find a group for their level and new players never even bothered to visit the other zones past level 20. Don't let them ruin EQ2 like they did EQ1. The zones you know and love will be abandoned and the game will go down the tubes. Speak out while you still have the chance and post something here so they know we care. If we get enough posts a developer or moderator is sure to see.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Rabbit24 on <span class="date_text">06-07-2005</span> <span class="time_text">10:18 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Rabbit24 on <span class=date_text>06-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:19 PM</span>

[Cepheus80]

For an expansion...yes I'd agree LDoN sucked. But, this is only an advanture pack. Hopefully the new instanced dungeons in the Splitpaw Saga will give people something to do in their spare time. As we all know, besides raiding, there really isn't much to do at 50...so yea, this has some potential if they do it right imo.

[Moontayle]

You forget to mention that LDON also had rewards associated with completing the dungeons. <EM>That</EM> is the reason people did them. LDON may have seemed like a failure to you but it did one thing that no other expansion in EQ had done up until that point: Encourage the dungeon crawl. EQ2 already has this so bringing out an expansion pack for it wouldn't really accomplish much, but LDON succeeded because of the rewards people garnered if they worked at it. If I remember correctly, the top end stuff was equivilant to Vex Thal if not Lower Planes of Power.

[batter_then]

ok i personally like LDON andhere is why.... we got lot that was worth it usually... plus it was an alturnitive to CB PC HHK then that one place next to the plain of fear... and so on... i mean it was really more of a anoying grid then anything i could possible amagin... LDON got rid of that which i think made it better. The silver bullet i think was that SOE made a huge deal about eq2 coming out so alot of poeple quit during 03 becouse we wernt sure when eq2 was coming out in 04 and we didnt want to pay the extra cash.... or at least thats what i did heh <div></div>

[Margen]

<P>Sorry IMHO LDoN was the best expansion that came out of EQlive.  For the casual gamer it gave them a chance to advance with out being part of the raiding guilds.  </P> <P>You get a group of your friends together and then you go dungeon crawl, with a fixed mission and a time frame to complete it in.  So you wanted to accomplish something in two hours of play, and you didn't belong to solo capable class then get your friends together and accomplish something.  Lot funner then sitting in the same spot for 5 hours waiting for x mob to pop or just finding a camping spot for xp grinding and not going any where.  Or worse yet, doing the ever so fun LFG in POK.</P> <P>Worst expansion GoD, basicly told me my pally was doomed, when I couldn't even survive tanking group content as a medium equiped tank, with no niffty surviale skill called defense.</P> <P>Blackoath 36th Troll shadow Knight</P>

[Rant-]

<DIV>LDON was the best thing EQ1 ever did.  It gave timed missions and a goal. It spawned a chat channel that made finding groups faster. It gave you an assued place to hunt without having contested mobs. It made you press for time, i know alot of people got far better because you have to really push it sometimes to make it in time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wish they would of had more missions and even things like 2 groups PVP instances where you start at different ends of the zone, the first to kill the named mob in the middle wins. Lots of other types of missions could of been done, but the base model was great.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*edit - forgot to mention that you could log in find a group and do a mission within 2 hours and still get points towards the phat loot gear. so it was far more open to the casual gamer.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Rant-eh on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:23 AM</span>

[Nobol]

<blockquote><hr>Margen wrote: <P>Sorry IMHO LDoN was the best expansion that came out of EQlive.  For the casual gamer it gave them a chance to advance with out being part of the raiding guilds.  </P> <P>You get a group of your friends together and then you go dungeon crawl, with a fixed mission and a time frame to complete it in.  So you wanted to accomplish something in two hours of play, and you didn't belong to solo capable class then get your friends together and accomplish something.  Lot funner then sitting in the same spot for 5 hours waiting for x mob to pop or just finding a camping spot for xp grinding and not going any where.  Or worse yet, doing the ever so fun LFG in POK.</P> <P>Worst expansion GoD, basicly told me my pally was doomed, when I couldn't even survive tanking group content as a medium equiped tank, with no niffty surviale skill called defense.</P> <P>Blackoath 36th Troll shadow Knight</P><hr></blockquote>Velious was the greatest expansion ever....

[Ar]

LDoN best expension ever for me. Unguilded and underequiped. Eleminated alot of needs for flags to even think of getting decent stuff and you could run things in a short term manner so people could rotate in and out of groups without too much disruption. Of course some folks only wanted missions in certain dungeons becuse they wanted to unlock such and such item but overall I think ANY effor was rewarded via points to spend at a later date. Best bang for the buck, because make no mistake, its about money and how much SOE can satisfy customers with a definite amount of investment. <div></div>

[Dae]

Velious was my favourite but LDON probably gave me the most rewarding experience for a single group. My only complaint was that after the first ten times through any given instance it got a bit boring and turned into a points farm. Scaling instances are a very good thing, especially if they allow both solo and group play. I wish they'd make the other instances scale with level too. Then maybe I'd actually use them. LDON was good for points but there was nothing like PoP for fast xp. 90% of the old world gets abandoned with every expansion in EQ1. That's just how it works. God forbid people actually use the new zones. <div></div>

[Kimkim Team`Zeb]

<DIV>Had more fun in Ldon than any other expansion really. :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Nolrog]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rabbit24 wrote:<BR> This is a quote from Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer for eq2.<BR><BR> <HR> <B>Scott Hartsman:</B> This is an interesting experiment for us, based on a similar theory to what worked out very well in EQ: Lost Dungeons of Norrath.<BR><BR>Many of the new areas in The Splitpaw Saga will be dungeon instances that let people from levels 20 through 50 enjoy the new tale.<BR><BR>These will be private instances that spawn creatures appropriate for the level of those who are going in to play. It should be an enjoyable challenge for many more people than an adventure pack that doesn’t make use of this level scaling.<BR><BR>We’re looking forward to seeing what people think. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> LDON and scaling zones were the silver bullet that killed eq1. People no longer used the normal zones to level and all anyone ever did was LDON from 20 - 65. The second LDON came out all, of the other zones on my server went dead. No one leveled anywhere else at lower levels and you could hardly find a group unless it was in an LDON (the eq1 version of this) or a raid. The entire game became the LDON zones and it became very, very repetitive. People entirely forgot the other zones even existed because this was such a convenient way to find a group for their level and new players never even bothered to visit the other zones past level 20. Don't let them ruin EQ2 like they did EQ1. The zones you know and love will be abandoned and the game will go down the tubes. Speak out while you still have the chance and post something here so they know we care. If we get enough posts a developer or moderator is sure to see.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There so many ways that I disagree with you, that I can't even begin to start spitting them out.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As you can see, LDoN has lots of supporters.  Many people love that old time dungeon crawl, add to that the benefit of having augments, and the ability to get some nice gear, and you can see why it had so many fans.  If it only wasn't so mundane, people would still be doing it in droves.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Nolrog on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:58 AM</span>

[Rabbit24]

<div></div><div></div><p>Yes the dungeon crawls were fun and yes they did have good rewards but you're missing the point. <font color="#ff6666">You can have BOTH of those things with zones that do not scale in level.</font> On my server in eq1 all of the other zones were empty because of LDON, not because it was more fun, but because whatever level you were it was easier to find a group sitting around shouting in the plane of knowledge then it was to actually go to zones that were designed for your level and explore the world that was created for you. HHK was EMPTY, Mistmore was EMPTY, Oasis was a joke, when i tried to form groups to go ther with alts no one had even heard of the zone. Split-paw, forget about it, even Lake of Ill Omen which on my server was one of the most popular zones before the expansion was completely empty most of the time save for a few soloers. Seriously, you were lucky if two people were in the zone at any given time. EQ2 does a great job with dungeon crawls already IMO.<font color="#ff6666"> Yes i think they could do better and YES I’d really, really like to see more instanced zones with dungeon crawls and goals for small groups (much like they did with nek castle and nek returns), especially for lower level groups. But what I don't want to see is one zone that you can spend all of your time in from level 20 to level 50. THAT is what killed the other zones. Everything else about LDON was great and i don't see why it can't be implemented in a way such that certain zones are appropriate for certain level ranges.</font> Its all about balancing the number of zones that are appropriate for level ranges and making sure there are enough options at each level. Zone scaling to me is just a cop-out. Come on, do you really still want to be fighting the same monsters at 48+ that you did at 20?</p><div></div><p>Message Edited by Rabbit24 on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:04 AM</span>

[BamoStro]

<P>Do you even play EQ2?  I got so many things to do in so many different zones, and none of them have to do with mindless exp farming.  Stay in one zone from 20-50... hehe what a joke...</P>

[Rabbit24]

<div></div><p>48 Zerker AB17 Summoner ABAnd yes this game will become a bunch of people staying in one zone from 20 to 50 once people start making alts and a new generation of players arrives. There was plenty to do in EQ1 also but once LDON came out no one ever did it =p. I'm guessing Qeynos Harbor and Freeport will be allot like PoK where everyone just sits around shouting for a group for a scaling zone and calling back when they're done.Personally i think they should do it like they did with Nek castle and Nek returns. I want to see new content at higher levels and it’s almost insulting to never out level the same mobs i was fighting at 20 or at least see new versions of them with a new plot. Where is the progression? How does this fit into Role-playing? I'd even be fine with them making 3 different versions of the zone for different level groups with a progressive plot. THAT would be fun.</p><div></div><p>Message Edited by Rabbit24 on <span class="date_text">06-08-2005</span><span class="time_text">07:35 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Rabbit24 on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:35 AM</span>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rabbit24 wrote:<BR> <P>On my server in eq1 all of the other zones were empty because of LDON, not because it was more fun, but because whatever level you were it was easier to find a group sitting around shouting in the plane of knowledge then it was to actually go to zones that were designed for your level and explore the world that was created for you. HHK was EMPTY, Mistmore was EMPTY, Oasis was a joke, when i tried to form groups to go ther with alts no one had even heard of the zone. Split-paw, forget about it, even Lake of Ill Omen which on my server was one of the most popular zones before the expansion was completely empty most of the time save for a few soloers. Seriously, you were lucky if two people were in the zone at any given time. </P> <P>Message Edited by Rabbit24 on <SPAN class=date_text>06-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:04 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually LDON didnt kill those zones, Paludal Caverns killed those zones for levels 6-25 when everyone found out about the huge ZEM there. Then the Overthere, Dreadlands, after that, off to the planes.</P> <P>Blame it on PoP and its oh so easy one click and youre there travel.  Thats what killed those zones.</P>

[Aegori]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rabbit24 wrote:<BR> <P>Yes the dungeon crawls were fun and yes they did have good rewards but you're missing the point. <FONT color=#ff6666>You can have BOTH of those things with zones that do not scale in level.</FONT> On my server in eq1 all of the other zones were empty because of LDON, not because it was more fun, but because whatever level you were it was easier to find a group sitting around shouting in the plane of knowledge then it was to actually go to zones that were designed for your level and explore the world that was created for you. HHK was EMPTY, Mistmore was EMPTY, Oasis was a joke, when i tried to form groups to go ther with alts no one had even heard of the zone. Split-paw, forget about it, even Lake of Ill Omen which on my server was one of the most popular zones before the expansion was completely empty most of the time save for a few soloers. Seriously, you were lucky if two people were in the zone at any given time. EQ2 does a great job with dungeon crawls already IMO.<FONT color=#ff6666> Yes i think they could do better and YES I’d really, really like to see more instanced zones with dungeon crawls and goals for small groups (much like they did with nek castle and nek returns), especially for lower level groups. But what I don't want to see is one zone that you can spend all of your time in from level 20 to level 50. THAT is what killed the other zones. Everything else about LDON was great and i don't see why it can't be implemented in a way such that certain zones are appropriate for certain level ranges.</FONT> Its all about balancing the number of zones that are appropriate for level ranges and making sure there are enough options at each level. Zone scaling to me is just a cop-out. Come on, do you really still want to be fighting the same monsters at 48+ that you did at 20?</P> <P>Message Edited by Rabbit24 on <SPAN class=date_text>06-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:04 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The main reason tons of people did LDoNs was the associated effort reward. People wanted the items/augs not only available inside the dungeon, but ones available for purchase outside as well. Take away half of that equation, and there's not much point to doing the LDoNs anymore. How big of an impact do you feel LDoNs would have played if there were no rewards via adventure points? I would imagine people would have still used them, but not nearly as much as they did. They were also somewhat widespread, given that there were 5 different dungeons (at release) that people could experience. You're talking about 1 dungeon at release of Splitpaw Saga. The chances that people are going to want to gather around and play this one zone over and over and over again for years on end without some kind of efforted reward is very unlikely. At this point in EQ2s life, there is plenty to do IMHO, and adding content with replayability is not a bad thing.</P> <P>You also have to look at the style of games. EQ1 is not EQ2 in the fact that only a few select classes can actually solo in EQ1. For the most part in EQ1 you're forced into a group. EQ2, every class can solo and is given ample opportunity to do so. Given the chance back in EQ1, i would not have necessarily sat around LDoN camps LFG if i could have been off soloing. Yea, i would have done it from time to time, but not nearly as much as i did. I was basically forced into it. They gave us no option to solo and a great meeting grounds to form groups that resulted in efforted rewards. It's pretty obvious the path that's going to be chosen.</P> <P>Same technology as LDoN, but very different in concept. It won't have nearly the impact you believe it will. </P> <P>-Aeg<BR></P> <p>Message Edited by Aegorian on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:38 AM</span>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rabbit24 wrote:<BR> <P>48 Zerker AB<BR>17 Summoner AB<BR><BR>I want to see new content at higher levels and it’s almost insulting to never out level the same mobs i was fighting at 20 or at least see new versions of them with a new plot. Where is the progression? How does this fit into Role-playing? </P><BR><BR> <P>Message Edited by Rabbit24 on <SPAN class=date_text>06-08-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>07:35 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Rabbit24 on <SPAN class=date_text>06-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:35 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR> </P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Horse bisquits.  What did you fight on IoR? goblins, bears, wolves, bugs, deer.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Forest Ruins?  Bears, deer, bugs, badgers.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Down Below? bugs, rats, undead.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Antonica? gnolls, rats, little bears, wolves, bugs, deer, badgers, undead.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>TS? bugs, bears, wolves gnolls, badgers, undead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, there are mobs that arent the same in every zone, griffs, giants, centaurs.  For the most part though, it is the same old recycled mobs.  Splitpaw didnt invent that, it was already there.</DIV>

[EtoilePirate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote: <DIV>Horse bisquits.  What did you fight on IoR? goblins, bears, wolves, bugs, deer.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Forest Ruins?  Bears, deer, bugs, badgers.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Down Below? bugs, rats, undead.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Antonica? gnolls, rats, little bears, wolves, bugs, deer, badgers, undead.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>TS? bugs, bears, wolves gnolls, badgers, undead.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, there are mobs that arent the same in every zone, griffs, giants, centaurs.  For the most part though, it is the same old recycled mobs.  Splitpaw didnt invent that, it was already there.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Why not branch out?  Fight orcs in the Commonlands, Shadowed Men and Fairies in Nektulos.  Then there are the T4 zones.  Kill fiends, halflings, and a variety of caster-things.  Get to the Feerrott and hunt Lizardmen.  The more zones you play in, the more things you find.  Especially once you cross 20 and have the ability to go to Nek and the TS more or less at will.  I spent 21-18 in the Steppes hunting centaurs and gnolls and griffons because they were all so new and shiny and different from what I had being on the FP side from the start.</P> <P>Really, I think the variety's there, although not even as wide as I would like it.  But it's hardly the exact same in every zone.<BR></P>

[twiztedfait']

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rabbit24 wrote:<BR> <P>On my server in eq1 all of the other zones were empty because of LDON, not because it was more fun, but because whatever level you were it was easier to find a group sitting around shouting in the plane of knowledge then it was to actually go to zones that were designed for your level and explore the world that was created for you. HHK was EMPTY, Mistmore was EMPTY, Oasis was a joke, when i tried to form groups to go ther with alts no one had even heard of the zone. Split-paw, forget about it, even Lake of Ill Omen which on my server was one of the most popular zones before the expansion was completely empty most of the time save for a few soloers. Seriously, you were lucky if two people were in the zone at any given time. </P> <P>Message Edited by Rabbit24 on <SPAN class=date_text>06-08-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>07:04 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually LDON didnt kill those zones, Paludal Caverns killed those zones for levels 6-25 when everyone found out about the huge ZEM there. Then the Overthere, Dreadlands, after that, off to the planes.</P> <P>Blame it on PoP and its oh so easy one click and youre there travel.  Thats what killed those zones.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You both are actuall right IMHO.  Pop made travel meaningless.  People now have the options to warp acrost the world in about 2 mins instead of it taking hours.   Before PoP( well actuallly SoV...) you would never even imagine inviting someone from around the world to your group unless they had easy access to a port.  All that time waiting for them was wasted EXP time, and they usually would not run there at the drop of a had because they would most likely get more exp hunting in the area they were at instead of taking 2 hours to walk there.  That is 2 hours of wasted EXP.</P> <P>With LDoN you can can only get the LDoN items if you hunted there.  They were better loot/coin then every other zone out there.  Not only that but to get the high end buyable items you had to spend AP, these were only earned in LDoN zones.</P> <P>Both of these things together destroyed EQ1(atleast for me)  The 1st one made people hunt in the 'hotspots'.  The second one simply made the 'hotspots' in a area where you already had to have a group set up, and where you were all alone(no other groups there, thus less of a social aspect to the game)  When grinding the things that made it more enjoyable to me were the conversations in ooc/shout.  There is nothing as humerous as seeing a spammer followed up by [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] NOOB!......Classic MMO......</P>

[Ranvi]

<DIV>LDoN was a terrible expansion. It gave people the acquire VT standard gear for much less time invested. Getting VT access was a pain in the [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] and then clearing all the mobs to aten ha ra and the variations of diablo xi mobs. Augmented LDoN gear wasn't as great as drops from Aten but pretty high up there.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Doubt the Splitpaw saga will have items that are as good as current raid items. Although many drops outside of raids are comparable to raid drops.</DIV>

[Bewk]

<DIV>LDON was a great expansion for catching up on gear is why is was so popular. Plus if you liked the old world zones you should have been real happy, because is basically made them instance dungeon.  Win win.  Old school hunting Guk was sweet but some Saturdays the entire dungeon would be completely cleared at all time. That was not that fun.</DIV>

[Rabbit24]

<div></div>The issue i have with this isn't the equipment drops its the level scaleing. I don't want to see a zone or a bunch of zones that you can spend the entire game in. This will be the quickest way for people with alts that have already reached 50 to level up a character to raid. I'm afraid of what this will do to the population and popularity of the lower zones. You <b><u><i>should</i></u></b><i> </i>be<b> </b>able to out level a zone and move on to another one or at least another version of it with a progressive plot and new challenges. It keeps the game from getting repetitive and forces the more experience players to still interact with the newbies and show them the ropes in the lower zones. A common phenomina in eq1 was that new players would come on not see ANYONE in the other zones and quickly catch on that the only way they were going to get a group and get to 65 so they could play what became the only used content, raiding zones, was to get a LDON group. <u><b>Its the scaling i'm worried about.</b></u> I'm not sure how many of you ever actually had to lvl a character from scratch to 65 with no help, power leveling, or twinking AFTER PoP and LDON came out. It sounds like most of you were Raiding or at least up to a level wher you could raid by the time LDON came out.  Starting over, or for the first time, It was very hard and very boring because there were no places to get groups becides LDON past lvl 25. And it wasn't a slow transition either, once LDON came out all of the lower zones (non planes) went dead for good. For people that were not up to raiding yet and just trying to level a character LDON sucked because they never got to experience the rest of the game. Prehaps from a raiders prespective LDON was so popular because of the adventure points and equipment drops, but from a lowbies prespective, trying to get to a level where you actually could raid it was crap, because LDON was your only option. Thats why we (people that did not have high level alts or help) played it and thats what killed the lower zones. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Rabbit24 on <span class=date_text>06-08-2005</span> <span class=time_text>05:55 PM</span>

[observer]

<P>Use some paragraphs please!</P> <P>No one is going to read that unless they're really bored or insane.</P>

[Bi]

<span><blockquote><hr>Sunrayn wrote: <div>Horse bisquits.  What did you fight on IoR? goblins, bears, wolves, bugs, deer.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Forest Ruins?  Bears, deer, bugs, badgers.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Down Below? bugs, rats, undead.  </div> <div> </div> <div>Antonica? gnolls, rats, little bears, wolves, bugs, deer, badgers, undead.  </div> <div> </div> <div>TS? bugs, bears, wolves gnolls, badgers, undead.</div> <div> </div> <div>Yes, there are mobs that arent the same in every zone, griffs, giants, centaurs.  For the most part though, it is the same old recycled mobs.  Splitpaw didnt invent that, it was already there.</div><hr></blockquote> Most misinformed bias post so far. I would hazard a guess that you havent experienced most of the zones so far, because although the original poster may have said 'mobs' it also will infer the dungeon played in as well. Not one of the 4 you mentioned have the same sort of feel to them...the way the mobs patrol and roam etc. There are only so many things to kill, and eventually I am sure the same style of mobs will be recurring; however the multitude of them, size, colour dress, agro types, attack techniques group size/sizes as well as hp/mana.. ferocity.. All of these things are not summed up by 'bears' or 'badgers' to the OP: I think that a dungeon that scales will be good for the early/off peak hours; but personally I will always want to see something worth seeing and will explore like that. However - if the rewards mean I do the same instance(s) over and over: Menagerie, Icespire  spring to mind; as does Bastion for those lucky enough to know a swashbuckler/fury/chanter. Reward is what will keep people coming back, not scaling dungeons. Although I will be happy to see a dungeon that isnt all-green  at the get-go, and moves to white around the 2 hr mark. To me that takes the fun out of the game.</span><div></div>

[Moontayle]

<P>I would think Scaling would be a welcome addition. There's so much content I ended up bypassing simply because I outgrew the instance and the only recourse would be to go in as a mentor, which I am loath to do simply because it deprives me of the skills I have worked hard to get. Scaling however would allow me to go in and experience the content at a challenge appropriate for my level without diluting the actual experience (seriously, what would I do with the loot from mentoring?).</P> <P>Scaling itself, if it is as successful as they hope, could then be applied to a multitude of other instances. Key among those would be the raid instances, which at the present time would be likely candidates for scaling because once DoF comes out then they'd be useless and trivial for the Tier 6 raiding guilds. Scaling would allow them to to see continued use for a long time.</P> <P>LDON was extremely popular because of the combination of scaled instances and rewards for continued participation in the zones, not just because of the scaling.</P>

[batter_then]

i would just like to point out i had soem good times in POK when i was LFG becouse i woudl allways have a necro body of mine cast floating dead on me and then donate for a sow and then run around liek a indiot.... i got so high... in the air... it was awsome <div></div>

[mastalynx]

<DIV>Ldons were cool. They should have lockout timers or fewer rewards for repeating instances in a set amount of time, so that the rest of the game gets explored.</DIV>

[Helt]

Margen you are 100% right!

[tenebrar]

<DIV>LDoN sucked for XP, no one in their right mind would consider those zones to be "xp zones."  If people spent an inordinate amount of time in there it was to get adventure points (which sucked if you were not in your 50s, if I recall).  On my server at least, I did not experience this under-population of non-instanced zones at all.  PoP's (and every other expansion's) xp areas were always populated from the time LDoN came out to the time I quit playing (just before OoW).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>From everything that I've seen there has yet to be a "silver bullet" to end EQ1's life - it is quite alive and kicking.  I know they've done a lot of server consolidation due to under-population, but that's from people leaving the game to play the next generation of MMOs.  That's to be exptected.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bottom line, the sky isn't falling so get over it.</DIV>

[mallice]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Moontayle wrote:You forget to mention that LDON also had rewards associated with completing the dungeons. <em>That</em> is the reason people did them. LDON may have seemed like a failure to you but it did one thing that no other expansion in EQ had done up until that point: Encourage the dungeon crawl. EQ2 already has this so bringing out an expansion pack for it wouldn't really accomplish much, but LDON succeeded because of the rewards people garnered if they worked at it. If I remember correctly, the top end stuff was equivilant to Vex Thal if not Lower Planes of Power.<hr></blockquote> Amen Moontayle. Playing EQ1 for over 4 years and being a member of high end guilds, I was burning out on the end game (Vex Thal, POP etc.).  Those raids progressing to Plane of Time were really causing me to dislike the game (Gnomes were tortured and killed  because of it).  To me and some of my in-game friends/guildies,  LDON was a breath of fresh air.  I personally more enjoy the 1 group dungeon crawl that you can do in a couple hours or less.  IF you have a busy schedule or were not in a power guild, you could earn some decent lewt and really have some fun.  I got alot of really nice augments to my gear and was able to obtain some gear upgrades that I needed without having to spend hours raiding to earn DKP and having to bid or auction at raids for gear I really needed.  Some of the Hard Level LDONs were a definite challenge and fun to do. Instanced encounters like that can be a great  alternative for those who aren't in (or can't get into) a power guild or just don't have the time to raid all the time.  It's a balance that we ALL (players and developers) have to find.   I've been on both extremes.   The more options that exist for all player types, the better EQ2 will be.  I personally don't have time (OR PATIENCE) for 4-5 hour raids that I will probaly not get a thing out of.  Instanced or 1-2 group encounters doing a dungeon crawl is much more fun and challenging.  What I personally enjoy most about EQ2 is that I see a very large variety of options to spend my time playing.  I really don't miss EQ1 at all....well I miss roleplaying an Evil Gnome-Hating Dark Elf Shadow Knight <span>:robotmad: Oh, yeah.  We did some really bizarre combinations of groups to challenge our selves.  I have very fond memories of doing a LDON mission with 5 Shadow Knights and 1 Paladin.  We did short handed LDON missions with 3-4 people.  When you take on a mission with some unusual group configuration you are really challenged in figuring out how to get the mission done which again was much more fun than raiding. </span></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by mallice on <span class=date_text>06-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:00 AM</span>

[Na]

<span><blockquote><hr>Rabbit24 wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>Yes the dungeon crawls were fun and yes they did have good rewards but you're missing the point. <font color="#ff6666">You can have BOTH of those things with zones that do not scale in level.</font> On my server in eq1 all of the other zones were empty because of LDON, not because it was more fun, but because whatever level you were it was easier to find a group sitting around shouting in the plane of knowledge then it was to actually go to zones that were designed for your level and explore the world that was created for you. HHK was EMPTY, Mistmore was EMPTY, Oasis was a joke, when i tried to form groups to go ther with alts no one had even heard of the zone. Split-paw, forget about it, even Lake of Ill Omen which on my server was one of the most popular zones before the expansion was completely empty most of the time save for a few soloers. </p><hr></blockquote>I really don't think it was LDON that emptied these zones but SOL. SOL introduced the fast path to xp of Paludal>Marus Seru>Dawnshroud Peaks>Umbral Plains>Ssraeshza Temple>Vex Thal.  Once these zones were introduced there was really no need for people to go to the old world zones. These zones had better xp, better loot and most often were far less dangerous than the existing zones. </span><div></div>

[CanisLupos]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nobolis wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Margen wrote:<BR> <P>Sorry IMHO LDoN was the best expansion that came out of EQlive.  For the casual gamer it gave them a chance to advance with out being part of the raiding guilds.  </P> <P>You get a group of your friends together and then you go dungeon crawl, with a fixed mission and a time frame to complete it in.  So you wanted to accomplish something in two hours of play, and you didn't belong to solo capable class then get your friends together and accomplish something.  Lot funner then sitting in the same spot for 5 hours waiting for x mob to pop or just finding a camping spot for xp grinding and not going any where.  Or worse yet, doing the ever so fun LFG in POK.</P> <P>Worst expansion GoD, basicly told me my pally was doomed, when I couldn't even survive tanking group content as a medium equiped tank, with no niffty surviale skill called defense.</P> <P>Blackoath 36th Troll shadow Knight</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Velious was the greatest expansion ever....<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Why the hell would you one-star someone for an opinion?  Not sure who gave Nob the one star, but that is pretty lame.

[Midget of Death]

<DIV>one suggestion to keep people from only grinding in these level based instances is to do the following:  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When a player logs the quest it says what level that player is, that is how the mob level is based.  Make it to where once the quest is logged for a specific player, the mobs inside stop scaling for that player later down the line.  This way once the player logs the quest, the mobs are locked at that level forever for that player.</DIV>

[Vladic]

The worst expansion  was POP , It created devision between players who played  a lot and those that couldnt  if you were able to get flaged you played if  you couldnt then you were exclued . THE  best expansion was  Scars Vellious .....

[Sn]

<DIV>Well for LDoN style dungeon crawls I have this to say.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can't see target. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>