Quit whining about rare drops =p

[Rabbit24]

Quit whining about rare drops on the test server boards. There is a reason why some items are ridiculously hard to find such as Ebon clusters, the Sword of Thunder and the Robe of the Invoker. <font color="#ff3333">The entire point is that someone, somewhere might just get lucky and find one NOT that you should sit there for days on end in order to get one.</font> No one wants or expects you to do that in order to get these items and you are not entitled to one just because you tried to beat the system.  In fact, the rarity of these items is specifically designed to deter such behavior. <div></div>

[Beghard]

<DIV>I belive you are corect! Those who will say "Well it is in the game and was made to be used so i should be able to get it and its not fair that i have wasted so much time on somethign that is suposedly in game," need to consider this: The theory the OP stated means that said things were made to increace imersion. What would this game be like without it? If chanse, excitment and uncertinty arnt your style go play Pac-Man.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Q'Tar]

<P>I do understand that SOE wants those quest item to be hard to get. "The journey is half the fun" type mentality. I am not complaining about not being able to get an Ebon cluster for this quest or that or even for armor. Heck I'm not even to the T5 harvestables yet. What I am complaining about is I like crafting so I harvest a LOT and to be totally honest I have gotten 4 rares in almost 5 months of playing. No I am not exagerating. At the same time other people I hear about get rares constantly. THAT is what I am complaining about. I don't know how their drop system works but to me it isn't fair that I can spend up to 14 plus hours a week harvesting and get no rares. My last rare was 2 months ago, again no exageration. I am the joke in my guild. People wont harvest with me they are afraid my "Bad luck" will rub off on them.</P> <P>So if your going to tell me there is no problem and that it is just by luck the rares are dropped then I tell you it is statistically impossible for me to have this much "Bad luck" somethingis wrong with the drop system.</P>

[Rabbit24]

I probably shouldn't have thrown ebon clusters in there. My gripe is mostly with the people who complain about rare item drops as if they are entitled to them because they attempt to camp something that was never intended to be camped. Harvest dynamics are a another story, as they are used to control the rarity of crafted items which significantly affect the economics of the game. <div></div>

[Q'Tar]

I'm not saying I'm entitled to a lot of rares simply because I am out there harvesting and not camping some boss. I am saying that if I am out there harvesting I should get more than I am because of randomness. Can anyone honestly say that one person getting 2 or 3 rares a week while casually harvesting and another person harvesting 1 to 2 hours a days for crafting and only getting 1 rare every 2 months is fair? All I am saying is I want an even playing field. If "Bob the Barbarian" over there gets 2 rares a week (glowies don't count) from casual harvesting then I should get those same 2 rares a week while harvesting an hour or more a night. I'm NOT saying I should get more than them.

[fasht]

<span><blockquote><hr>Q'Tar wrote:<p>At the same time other people I hear about get rares constantly. </p> <p>So if your going to tell me there is no problem and that it is just by luck the rares are dropped then I tell you it is statistically impossible for me to have this much "Bad luck" somethingis wrong with the drop system. </p> <hr></blockquote>No it isn't statistically wrong I've never won the 500 million dollar US lotto Or the 10 million on or the 1 million one Dammit, I've never even won the 10 buck bingo night at the local church (and NOT though lack of trying) It's the same thing with Rares. It's GAMBLING!!!! You spend time on the RARE CHANCE that you win a rare item. Once you realise you are gambling, I hope it will all make sense to you In fact, the system is not only working, it is working WELL! There are enough people getting "lucky" to keep the rest of us plebs spending their time on the chance of also making that big win. </span><div></div>

[kee]

<P>Rabbit i find it strangely humerous that you post a request for folk to stop whinging about not getting rares, then that post its self starts folk whining about how they're not getting rares. </P> <P>I'd give up being annoyed by it if i was you. Folk are gonna whinge about this topic forever. I guess they just feel they should be rewarded for THEIR input into the game, and begrudge it when they believe that other folk are getting more out of it with less effort.</P> <P>For my own part i don't reckon the randomness of rares is so bad. And i agree with you that it seems designed to deter a farming mentality, but that has obviously not worked.  From my own observations it is just making folk spend more time harvesting and thus encouraging them to whinge more about how hard done to they are. I decided a while ago that i'm not even gonna try and get these rare harvests such as ebon for armour. If they come, well that's nice, but don't force it and have fun is my motto. </P> <P>Lets face it, when the expansion comes out in September there's gonna be a whole new load of items, harvests and MUST have armours that we all need to be able to keep up with the Jones. Folk will be complainin' about the drop rate of "Dorns Fetid Fistula Juice" needed for their new Cut-throat Insignia Ring HQ, or whatever it is they're gonna be complainin about. Folk will probably think back wistfully about those heady days of being frustrated about "Ebon clusters", and think how much easier it was now that "Bum Clusters" have a drop rate of one in a million. Sit back and enjoy is what i say <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Rabbit24]

<span><blockquote><hr>Q'Tar wrote:Can anyone honestly say that one person getting 2 or 3 rares a week while casually harvesting and another person harvesting 1 to 2 hours a days for crafting and only getting 1 rare every 2 months is fair? All I am saying is I want an even playing field. If "Bob the Barbarian" over there gets 2 rares a week (glowies don't count) from casual harvesting then I should get those same 2 rares a week while harvesting an hour or more a night. <hr></blockquote>One of the hard lessons in statistics (and believe me i had to learn this first hand and in a not so pleasent way) is that statistical probability only works if you have a large enough sample set. The fact that "Bob the Barbarian" gets 2 rares a week from casual harvesting and you get none from the same amount is not much of a supprise. The thing that most people over look is that a few hours or days of harvesting is not enough to generate relevent data. If you and Bob the barbarian harvested several hundred thousand nodes you would likely get the about the same number of rares. And if you both harvested several million nodes the numbers would be equal to several digets. Using small samples you will often (but not <i><u>t</u><u>oo</u> </i>often <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>  ) go on streaks. During these streaks it is very tempting to have a "grass is greener" mentality and look at the people who just went on the opposite sort of streak and think they have a better chance of finding rares then you do. In reality they don't, they just got lucky and <u>eventually </u>that luck will <u>likely </u>fade. There is also the temptation to brag about getting lots of rares when you do get lucky, so you will definatly see more people talking about how they got 4 rares this week and 2 rares that week but exagerating the overall picture.</span><div></div>

[PurpleHazeOnDe]

<P>well  first of all i have been harvesting alot im lvl50 pretty have nothing to do except raids but im not complaining. i agree with the OP if said u harvest alot and u get alot more then casual havest person then i would think everyone would harvest alot makes sense right right?</P> <P>from lvl 12 to lvl 50 i harvest here and there now i harvest constantly i gotten 3 rares so far 2 rubies and 1 opal but that is just my luck i guess my point its not about fairness or whatever that is just how it is if said i harvest everyday cuz i harvest alot im entitled to get alot of rares then hell i would harvest everyday till im rich u get what im saying?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>50th Paladin</P> <P>Chaosangel Everfrost</P>

[btennison]

"Bob the Barbarian" here! I got two drops of rare silver, 15 minutes apart, about two months ago, nothing since. Now I treat "basil" as a rare for me, LOL. I expect another rare drop about the time EQ3 demos, doesn't bother me a bit. The game doesn't "owe" me a darn thing as far as rare drops go. Neither does the slot machine at the casino

[grozney_lucl]

<P>---------------</P> <P>So if your going to tell me there is no problem and that it is just by luck the rares are dropped then I tell you it is statistically impossible for me to have this much "Bad luck" something is wrong with the drop system.</P> <DIV>----------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The way to look at harvesting is the way you should look at the game of roulette.  Every time you harvest it does not matter that if you never in the course of a year got a rare it does not mean that you are closer to one now.  Every time you harvest it is like you are betting on roulette just because red came up 20 times does not mean it is time for black.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are thinking of harvesting like black jack  that just because I took all these cards out of the deck that gives me greater odds of getting the card that I want (in this case the rare).  The game chooses which nodes will have rares in them when they spawn.  Just because you came up to it with a record of 0 - 200 does not give you more of a chance then someone who comes up to that node with a record of 200 - 0   of getting a rare and they don't have a greater chance.  Some people are simply born lucky.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I too am not lucky in the harvesting game.  I have harvested many luminous stones and only one ebon.  I choose to get my rares through raiding.  </DIV><p>Message Edited by grozney_luclin on <span class=date_text>06-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:21 PM</span>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> grozney_luclin wrote:<BR> <P>---------------</P> <P>So if your going to tell me there is no problem and that it is just by luck the rares are dropped then I tell you it is statistically impossible for me to have this much "Bad luck" something is wrong with the drop system.</P> <DIV>----------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The way to look at harvesting is the way you should look at the game of roulette.  Every time you harvest it does not matter that if you never in the course of a year got a rare it does not mean that you are closer to one now.  Every time you harvest it is like you are betting on roulette just because red came up 20 times does not mean it is time for black.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are thinking of harvesting like black jack  that just because I took all these cards out of the deck that gives me greater odds of getting the card that I want (in this case the rare).  The game chooses which nodes will have rares in them when they spawn.  Just because you came up to it with a record of 0 - 200 does not give you more of a chance then someone who comes up to that node with a record of 200 - 0   of getting a rare and they don't have a greater chance.  Some people are simply born lucky.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I too am not lucky in the harvesting game.  I have harvested many luminous stones and only one ebon.  I choose to get my rares through raiding.  </DIV> <P>Message Edited by grozney_luclin on <SPAN class=date_text>06-07-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>03:21 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually, they've never informed us of whether nodes generate rares upon spawning or whether it's a per harvest roll of the random number dice. Either way, reducing it to "simply born lucky" is not satisfactory to me. I don't gamble in RL, PRECISELY because I don't want to waste a lot of money and effort on something with no guarantee of reward. I don't think there should be no effort invested in harvesting, but there are plenty of ways for them to create a level playing field where if Player A invests 50 hours harvesting and gets x number of rares, Player B can expect the same. </P> <P>Neither is it satisfactory to tell me I could choose to raid. I play in a casual guild, with a casual playstyle, and we don't raid. I play a lot (30-35 hours a week), but it's stuff I don't have to raid to do. I have no argument with raiders getting additional items unavailable to the general community, but I think it would be more appropriate to create drops and recipes just for them, as opposed to sucking drops out of harvesting to control the flow of rares into the game due to raiding (that's one hypothesis for how the game figures number of rares available for harvest). Thus on servers where there are fewer raiding guilds, if that's true, you'd see more harvestable rares. Again, no penalties for raiding, but I would like to see raiders receive additional choices, as opposed to casual players receiving fewer.</P> <P>Quite simply, it shouldn't be a gamble to this extent. Effort vs reward is out of whack when I can spend six months with no result and someone else can spend one night. While it might be super fun for some people to get lucky, I don't play EQ to simulate my chances of winning the State Lottery. If I wanted to gamble online, I'd have a subscription to GoldenPalace.com.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 37 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P>

[Ronin]

That's communism. Go back to Russia. <span>:smileytongue:</span> <div></div>

[circonian]

<DIV>My brother & I craft, we rarely adventure. I'm not complaining, I can afford to buy rares so I really dont care, but there is without a doubt something completely wrong with the system.</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>We've lvl'd 6 crafters to 40+ ::: 4 are 45+ & 3 of those are 50</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We've NEVER bought any items, we harvest everything ourselves, were defanitely talk'n in the hundreds & hundreds of thousands of items harvested.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>     (Other than extract components, and severed bone for some reason I've found like 5 stacks! )</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=4>I've NEVER found a single rare.....EVER, not a single pelt, gem, ore, nothin.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff size=3>I don't care how rare its supposed to be, I see rares on the broker all the time.....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=#33ccff size=3><FONT color=#66ffff>"and for me to have yet to find a single one</FONT>"  (this is the key here)</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff size=3>I find it hard to believe even against extreme odds....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff size=3>That ALL of these people could just be so EXTREMELY LUCKY, none of them harvest 1/10 as much as I do...</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#33ccff size=3>I guarantee it.</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes Yes Yes, I know its all statistically possible & all there are tons of [Removed for Content] posting how everything is just "impossible" & they probably dont even know the difference between a Discrete or Continuous Distribution. But given the situation. I do beleive its extremely unlikely that the rare drop rate is, "fairly executed." </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everyone on here focuses on, "omg just cause your not getting them doesn't mean anything...its rare!"</DIV> <DIV>Um ya, but look at all the bug  posts, peoples complaints about.....everything, thats wrong. Everyone knows the joke that they fix one thing & break 4 more....</DIV> <DIV align=center><FONT color=#ff0000 size=7><STRONG>Consider This</STRONG></FONT></DIV> <DIV align=center><FONT color=#66ccff size=6>My god do you guys honestly think that </FONT></DIV> <DIV align=center><FONT color=#66ccff size=6>"FOR RARE DROPS"</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=center><FONT color=#66ccff size=6>they implimented a perfectly working & fair system,</FONT></DIV> <DIV align=center><FONT color=#66ccff size=6>without bugs??? ROFL</FONT></DIV>

[Lady Uaelr]

<DIV>Rares should be difficult to find but not impossible to find.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What I think is ridiculous is when you need a rare to complete a quest. Like the Bone Bladed Claymore when you need to find</DIV> <DIV>an ebon.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you happen to be very unlucky you will never find this and unless you have 2pp to spend you should just delete this quest. I harvested for 3 months 2-3 hours a day and never found a ruby or rare metal.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Many lumnious flowers and stones but that is it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, I agree that rares should be difficult to come by but they should not be an obstacle to completing a quest. </DIV>

[Kadurm]

So far my record stands at ONE rare (T2 coral) and 2 glowing flowers..and this is since the debut of eq2 on the store shelves...and yes I am up to T5 harvesting..am I complaining? No. Do I wish I could find more ? Yes. Is any amount of whinning and crying going to change anything? No

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Roninja wrote:<BR>That's communism. Go back to Russia. <SPAN>:smileytongue:</SPAN><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Perhaps you need a lesson in communism. Here are a few quotes from Karl Marx, author of <EM>The</EM> <EM>Communist Manifesto.</EM></P> <P><SPAN class=body><FONT color=#ffcc00>From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>Essentially, if EQ worked on this premise, the casual player would not have to work for his ebon at all....it would be provided for him as soon as he needed it, from the hands of the harvesters and raiders who had the ability to go get it. This is called "redistribution of wealth" and I fail to see how I'm advocating it. I'm suggesting that in a fantasy game, I'd like to see more of a correspondence between the effort I invest and the reward I achieve....oh, wait, isn't that a tenet of people who believe in capitalism? Work hard and you'll get somewhere.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=body><FONT color=#ffcc00>The theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property. </FONT><FONT color=#ffffff>Again, communist theory believes in the ability of the state to provide for all from communal resources. I'm simply suggesting that there are better ways to reward player effort. Of course, this would have an impact on the value of some private property, but I'm hardly suggesting collectivisation of the rare mining industry.</FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=body>I would suggest that Marx actually had a point in this next quote, though.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=body><FONT color=#ffcc00>Catch a man a fish, and you can sell it to him. Teach a man to fish, and you ruin a wonderful business opportunity.</FONT> <FONT color=#ffffff>Those ebons won't have nearly as much value to the people selling them at exorbitant prices if more people can get their own. You see very few people who have actually gotten an ebon or lots of other rares thinking that the current system is unfair. Somehow, only those of us for whom harvesting is nearly an act of futility find it frustrating. Again, I work extremely hard in real life for very little gain, and it simply is in no way enjoyable for me to have to spend that much time doing it in a GAME. </FONT></SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=body>You can never compare EQ2 completely to the real world. Every facet of Norrath is extensively administered by Big Brother. Luck is not luck, it's an algorithm, and I find it an inadequate one. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN class=body>Ashlian Liadan, 37 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</SPAN></P>

[Kittypoo]

<DIV>I'm one of those that hardly ever harvest rares.  However, one day in the Feerrott I harvested two ebon clusters and one Superb pelt...all within a matter of a couple of hours and in the same general part of the zone.  I then sold them on the market for half what others were asking.  I only pray that the buyers used them and did not turn around and sell for double <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I was very lucky that day and have gotten nothing rare or even semi-rare since then. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I believe that the loot on the nodes are random.  Each time you harvest, the odds reset. New deck, new roll of the dice.  Not like you've harvest 50,000,000 nodes and this time you are owed a rare.  I don't believe it works based on anything YOU do.  I may be wrong but that is what I believe.   It's just luck.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dyeana]

<DIV> <P><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">As much as everyone is stating the randomness, he does actually have some validity to his point of harvesting rares, or getting a particular drop.<SPAN>  </SPAN>There does appear to be a number of factors which can influence a drop of a rare or harvest of a rare.<SPAN>  </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"> ?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>Point in case.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Oakmyst Forest zone crashed one evening 11 times due to a bug with a patch being tested.<SPAN>  </SPAN>After about the 3 or 4th time, I could tell you if it was a zone crash by the locations of the harvestables.<SPAN>  </SPAN>When the zone repopped, it always came back in the same pattern, along with the rares in the same spot, depending on the amount of time since the zone crash.<SPAN>  </SPAN>As long as I was the only one in zone, I could run the same pattern of harvesting, complete with receiving harvestables in the same order.<SPAN>  </SPAN>That indicated a random engine being rezero-ed to the same point, restarting from the same zero point,<SPAN>  </SPAN>and applying the same random equation to determine the drop and drop rate.<SPAN>  </SPAN>What I found made variance was several people harvesting in different orders causes the divergence of the drops and locations to become more random over time and at a quicker rate.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Another example.<SPAN>  </SPAN>After Palladium Torque drop.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I determined an area that the torque would drop in from other player experiences.<SPAN>  </SPAN>I went to the area and cleared the spawns for 4 hours at a time, with the result of no drops.<SPAN>  </SPAN>But if I entered the area after the server was brought up, clear the area and keep fresh spawns cleared, I would have a Palladium torque 42 to 48 minutes after the server was made available for play.<SPAN>  </SPAN>In this case, there were 6 spawns I was clearing, and although they would respawn in a different spot in the area they were to respawn, loot drop table was the same order.<SPAN>  </SPAN>If I tried the same area later in a servers day, I found nothing would drop with any regularity, except when no one had disturbed the original spawns, then it would act the same as the server being restored.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Depends on spawn kills and how many people visited the area and would clear only half of less of the placeholders.<SPAN>  </SPAN>That again is a random engine being brought back the same or rezero-ed the same.<SPAN>  </SPAN>It becomes predictable randomness.<SPAN>  </SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT face="Times New Roman" color=#000000 size=3>I could go on with more examples to prove the point that it is not completely random in all cases.<SPAN>  </SPAN>Factors I have determined to make a difference are, time since the server was restored, number of people in the area clearing harvestables / NPCs, method of clearing (clearing all or select clearing), location PCs are clearing (some areas are not keyed for a particular drop), speed of clearing the given areas where an object can drop, and the determination how many of an object is to drop (face it some things are to drop from a location only once or twice a day or server cycle), PC levels and group numbers and there are probably even more factors which can change the outcome. It does indeed become very random as you add more human randomness to a point, later in a server day, with very few exceptions.<SPAN>  </SPAN>There is a pattern to the randomness.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman"></FONT></FONT></FONT> </P> <P><FONT size=3><FONT color=#000000><FONT face="Times New Roman">Dye</FONT></FONT></FONT></P></DIV>

[Dyeana]

Darn, the pevious message font color messed up, sorry.  Highlight to see it <DIV> </DIV>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>Dyeana wrote:Point in case. Oakmyst Forest zone crashed one evening 11 times due to a bug with a patch being tested. After about the 3 or 4th time, I could tell you if it was a zone crash by the locations of the harvestables. When the zone repopped, it always came back in the same pattern, along with the rares in the same spot, depending on the amount of time since the zone crash. As long as I was the only one in zone, I could run the same pattern of harvesting, complete with receiving harvestables in the same order. That indicated a random engine being rezero-ed to the same point, restarting from the same zero point, and applying the same random equation to determine the drop and drop rate. What I found made variance was several people harvesting in different orders causes the divergence of the drops and locations to become more random over time and at a quicker rate.<hr></blockquote>Hmm, so this experience of yours would support the idea that harvestable node contents are determined at the time of <b>spawn</b>, not at the time of <b>harvest</b>. As a certain pointy-eared sci-fi character would say, "Fascinating."

[Keegant]

<P>Common misconception with this game, that is way to widespread, is randomness. Get this through your heads, randomness DOES NOT EXIST in this game. There are charts that dictate everything in this system. Charts that dictate when and where a rare will be. Charts that detirmine loot lotto split in groups, charts that detirmine damage and resists. When a char loads or when a zone loads or when a mob loads, they are given a chart and they go down that chat for ditirmining things. This is proven by the above poster stating that he could get the same loot and harvests. Its because they were using the same chart.</P> <P> </P> <P>My wife has harvested half as much as me but has gotten 3 times more rares than me. She has gotten the better charts. I have only gotten 4 rares and I would say that I am in the top 20 in nodes gathered from on my server. Of the 4 rares I got, they both came in sets of 2. I got 2 within an hour of each other. Got a good spot on the chart.</P> <P>I am not saying that I want the pop rate increased, I want it stabalized. Though the idea of getting a better chance of getting a rare as you gather more is a very good idea. Maybe give you a better chart after you harvest so much, then reset to the crapy chart when you get a rare. Reward those that spend alot of time gathering. </P> <P>Another possible fix would be to increase the rare drop rate, but make rares no trade. I would love this. Stops the plat farmers from getting rich and makes people gather if they want rares.</P>

[TopHatJon]

<DIV>How about in LU#11 they put in a /rare command.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you have harvested x amount of times and have still not found a rare you can /rare for one!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>YAY!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/sarcasm off</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is what happens in random systems. Some people will be very fortunate, and some will be completely and totally screwed.....however, most of us will be somewhere in the middle. That's just the way it works.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only way around this is to plan out everything in advance...after "x" amount of harvests you get a rare, after "x" amount of kills of a certain mob you get a certain loot. I could not possibly imagine a worse game to play. And I don't think you would like that solution either. B/c In order to controll the number of rare items/drops that enter the world, the number of hours or attempts would be DRASTICALLY increased for everyone. Probably to the point that no one would want to harvest for rares b/c it is too much trouble and takes too long. Then not only would you have to wait forever to get a rare just as you do now, but the only people who would take the time...is the bots. God help us if the bots get a monopoly on the game economy. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So in essence, your jealousy that someone got luckier than you has: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) ruined rare harvests for everyone, 2) empowered the bots to an insane degree, 3) serverely reduced the number of rares to be found or bought, 4) made everyone upset because they know it wil take them 653,849 harvests to get a rare and dont want to bother, 5) eliminated the supply of regular raws for crafters to buy which, 6) reduces the number of crafted items, which also 7) makes the existing ones much more expensive, <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> made crafting as a whole much less interesting and fun since it is so much trouble now, 9) made a lot of those crafters stop playing or at least as much, which finally 10) makes it harder to find a group since many of those crafters are also adventurers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Congratulations!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now you still dont have any more rares that you would have before, and quite possibly even less. Also the game has been destroyed. But on the plus side you know EXACTLY how many harvest attempts it will take to get a rare. :smileysurprised:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gladesto]

Not really fair when you see one player in full ebon...An myself i forage just as much as they do...Have yet to find one ebon...You must be one of them players who have good luck finding them hhhmmmmm.....

[Dr. D]

<P>I have an idea that if done right could reduce a lot of the complaints on this issue, without totally flooding the market with rares or giving further benefit to the botters....</P> <P> </P> <P>Just like you have "vitality" for XP and tradeskills, how about having "vitality" for harvesting -- except have it work a bit differently:</P> <P>1) Include a "search bias".  Somewhere in the UI where your "harvesting vitality" is displayed, have a dialog box where you can check off all the rares you are deliberately looking for.  This is the "search bias"... if you check off every box then it makes no difference to your chances of finding any given rare (all will be equal), but if you only check one or two boxes, indicating that you are searching for just those particular rares, then the chances of finding just those that you checked is increased while the chances of finding others goes down correspondingly.  To have the best chance of getting one particular rare, like a palladium cluster you need for a quest or something, you check only the box for that rare -- just to pick some numbers, say your chance of finding that rare goes up 5x (which is still going to be a very small chance if it is currently 1 in 10,000 or so.. now it's 1 in 2000) but your chance of finding each of the other rares gets divided by 10 (now 1 in 100,000).</P> <P>2) Have the "harvest vitality" wear off very quickly as you harvest nodes (a lot faster than the tradeskill or XP vitalities wear off) and also have it regenerate quite a bit slower.</P> <P>3) If your harvest vitality is at 100% make it a pretty good boost to your chance... maybe 10x.  So, between the max you can get from setting your search bias, and having full harvest vitality (or think of it as "wish" or "favor" points from the gods), you can get your chances for finding one specific rare up from 1 in 10,000 all the way to 1 in 200.  However, maybe this vitality wears off completely after only 100 harvests or so and would then require a week to regenerate back to full.</P> <P>So, if you harvest a lot (like a bot), you won't see much difference in the number of rares you get, except that with the bias you can end up with more of one rare and fewer of the others.  Note though that your full-time harvester type can't really take full advantage of this since if he cherry-picks only one node type then the spawn will eventually clog up with the node types he is avoiding (current game behavior).  Thus he has to spend time clearing the field harvesting all the node types, but getting fewer rares from those he has underbiased.</P> <P>If OTOH, you really, really want to have a reasonable chance of getting one particular rare that you need, then you just set max bias and abstain from harvesting till your vitality is at 100% then go out and harvest 100 or whatever from that node type till your vitality is gone.  If you don't get your rare then don't continue to spend the next 40 hours going crazy doing nothing but more harvesting.... give it a rest and wait a week for your vitality to recharge then try again.</P>

[Dr. D]

<P>I have an idea that if done right could reduce a lot of the complaints on this issue, without totally flooding the market with rares or giving further benefit to the botters....</P> <P> </P> <P>Just like you have "vitality" for XP and tradeskills, how about having "vitality" for harvesting -- except have it work a bit differently:</P> <P>1) Include a "search bias".  Somewhere in the UI where your "harvesting vitality" is displayed, have a dialog box where you can check off all the rares you are deliberately looking for.  This is the "search bias"... if you check off every box then it makes no difference to your chances of finding any given rare (all will be equal), but if you only check one or two boxes, indicating that you are searching for just those particular rares, then the chances of finding just those that you checked is increased while the chances of finding others goes down correspondingly.  To have the best chance of getting one particular rare, like a palladium cluster you need for a quest or something, you check only the box for that rare -- just to pick some numbers, say your chance of finding that rare goes up 5x (which is still going to be a very small chance if it is currently 1 in 10,000 or so.. now it's 1 in 2000) but your chance of finding each of the other rares gets divided by 10 (now 1 in 100,000).</P> <P>2) Have the "harvest vitality" wear off very quickly as you harvest nodes (a lot faster than the tradeskill or XP vitalities wear off) and also have it regenerate quite a bit slower.</P> <P>3) If your harvest vitality is at 100% make it a pretty good boost to your chance... maybe 10x.  So, between the max you can get from setting your search bias, and having full harvest vitality (or think of it as "wish" or "favor" points from the gods), you can get your chances for finding one specific rare up from 1 in 10,000 all the way to 1 in 200.  However, maybe this vitality wears off completely after only 100 harvests or so and would then require a week to regenerate back to full.</P> <P>So, if you harvest a lot (like a bot), you won't see much difference in the number of rares you get, except that with the bias you can end up with more of one rare and fewer of the others.  Note though that your full-time harvester type can't really take full advantage of this since if he cherry-picks only one node type then the spawn will eventually clog up with the node types he is avoiding (current game behavior).  Thus he has to spend time clearing the field harvesting all the node types, but getting fewer rares from those he has underbiased.</P> <P>If OTOH, you really, really want to have a reasonable chance of getting one particular rare that you need, then you just set max bias and abstain from harvesting till your vitality is at 100% then go out and harvest 100 or whatever from that node type till your vitality is gone.  If you don't get your rare then don't continue to spend the next 40 hours going crazy doing nothing but more harvesting.... give it a rest and wait a week for your vitality to recharge then try again.</P>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TopHatJones wrote:<BR> <DIV>How about in LU#11 they put in a /rare command.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you have harvested x amount of times and have still not found a rare you can /rare for one!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>YAY!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/sarcasm off</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is what happens in random systems. Some people will be very fortunate, and some will be completely and totally screwed.....however, most of us will be somewhere in the middle. That's just the way it works.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only way around this is to plan out everything in advance...after "x" amount of harvests you get a rare, after "x" amount of kills of a certain mob you get a certain loot. I could not possibly imagine a worse game to play. And I don't think you would like that solution either. B/c In order to controll the number of rare items/drops that enter the world, the number of hours or attempts would be DRASTICALLY increased for everyone. Probably to the point that no one would want to harvest for rares b/c it is too much trouble and takes too long. Then not only would you have to wait forever to get a rare just as you do now, but the only people who would take the time...is the bots. God help us if the bots get a monopoly on the game economy. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So in essence, your jealousy that someone got luckier than you has: </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) ruined rare harvests for everyone, 2) empowered the bots to an insane degree, 3) serverely reduced the number of rares to be found or bought, 4) made everyone upset because they know it wil take them 653,849 harvests to get a rare and dont want to bother, 5) eliminated the supply of regular raws for crafters to buy which, 6) reduces the number of crafted items, which also 7) makes the existing ones much more expensive, <img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> made crafting as a whole much less interesting and fun since it is so much trouble now, 9) made a lot of those crafters stop playing or at least as much, which finally 10) makes it harder to find a group since many of those crafters are also adventurers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Congratulations!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now you still dont have any more rares that you would have before, and quite possibly even less. Also the game has been destroyed. But on the plus side you know EXACTLY how many harvest attempts it will take to get a rare. :smileysurprised:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No one is arguing for a completely unrandom approach. I'm not jealous, I'm frustrated. I've seen a lot of ideas for a form of vitality for harvesting, and I don't know why that couldn't be implemented. It wouldn't affect common drops at all, only rares, so you wouldn't see people unable to harvest what they need for tradeskill grinding. But it would allow the individual to move the odds from State Lottery level to, say betting on horse racing, but for very brief periods of time. No one suggest you should just be able to press a button and get a rare right off the bat. The approach I like is that vitality builds very gradually through actual harvesting. As you spend hours harvesting, your vitality would increase. This could be many hours, I have no problem with that. At the end though, when you see that tick up to 100 percent, you would know for the next ten minutes you would have a greatly increased chance of getting a rare. Note I don't say guaranteed chance. But a good one. The vitality would disappear after 10 minutes or after you harvested a rare, one of the two. Harvesting a rare prior to 100% vitality would drop your vitality right back down to zero, also. This maintains an element of luck....you could still get that palladium on the first node you try. And it rewards the people who run through a zone for untold hours, which I've done, trying desperately for that one rare you need. </P> <P>For great effort, great reward, not something for nothing. You're essentially saying that the person who pauses to harvest a node while they're running to meet their group should have the same chance of getting a rare as the person who's spent the past four months trying for it. That's true gambling, and if you want an ingame casino like they made in EQ One, where those of you who seem to enjoy gambling, I hope they put one in. But for me to be required to do this in a game I play for fun, is not fun to me.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 37 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>Ashlian wrote:I've seen a lot of ideas for a form of vitality for harvesting, and I don't know why that couldn't be implemented.<hr></blockquote>Oh, that's easy. If, as I now strongly suspect, a harvest node's contents are determined at spawn, not when you harvest, then you <i>couldn't</i> set up a system to bias the acquisition of a rare. You'd have to completely rework the harvesting code so that nodes only showed the <i>type</i> of harvest you'll get, then have the actual harvest result (of that type) determined at time of harvest. That's a massive code change I'll bet.If, indeed, a node's contents are determined at spawn and if the server is set to have a maximum number of rare nodes at any one time (questionable) then it's quite likely that rares are congregating in seldom-harvested areas as the day progresses. My only suggestion to correct this would be to have a rare-containing node's despawn timer set very low, say 30 minutes, so that rares would have a higher chance, throughout the day, of spawning in more frequently harvested areas. OTOH, there may be no maximum, in which case the above would just make rares even more rare.

[Kittypoo]

<P>Ok, so if in fact the nodes contents are determined at spawn, then it is possible for someone to write a piece of outside code to identify which nodes contain rares.  I've read threads on the forum from people accusing bot harvesters of knowing which nodes will have rares and as a result, getting an unusual number of rare harvests.</P> <P>It worries me that they could be correct on this.  The developers should be worried too.</P> <P> </P>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>Kittypoo wrote:<P>Ok, so if in fact the nodes contents are determined at spawn, then it is possible for someone to write a piece of outside code to identify which nodes contain rares.<hr></blockquote>How?If the info is stored on the server (not your computer) how can a piece of code pull that info? All the server has to do is tell your computer, "draw a log at coordinates x,y,z with orientation a." When you harvest that log the server pulls the info about what was in the node from its database, tells your computer, "inform player of x harvest," then updates a different table that contains info on your posessions.So long as the info is stored on the server, not your computer, I can't see any way for code to identify what's in a node without actually harvesting it.

[WAPCE]

<blockquote><hr>FamilyManFirst wrote:<blockquote><hr>Kittypoo wrote:<P>Ok, so if in fact the nodes contents are determined at spawn, then it is possible for someone to write a piece of outside code to identify which nodes contain rares.<hr></blockquote>How?If the info is stored on the server (not your computer) how can a piece of code pull that info? All the server has to do is tell your computer, "draw a log at coordinates x,y,z with orientation a." When you harvest that log the server pulls the info about what was in the node from its database, tells your computer, "inform player of x harvest," then updates a different table that contains info on your posessions.So long as the info is stored on the server, not your computer, I can't see any way for code to identify what's in a node without actually harvesting it.<hr></blockquote>That's correct, but only under ideal conditions and coding. Unfortunately, as many "hack" programs have shown, a lot of games, EQ2 included, send more information to the client than is required. If this is done, any extra information can be interpreted and potentially used for exploitation. I can't think of any reason why the contents of a node (if pre-defined, as assumed) would be transmitted, but you never know...

[TopHatJon]

<DIV>The random system is working as intended AND as it should.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By harvesting 4 hours as opposed to harvesting just one node, you DO have a MUCH greater chance to find a rare b/c you are entering into that "state lotto" that many more times than the one node guy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why is it so important to you people to have all these rare harvests anyway? These rares are supposed to be just that.....RARE. If they are so common that people start to complain that they dont have as many as other people, I say they are TOO COMMON if anything! I am sick and tired of everyone whining and moaning b/c they don't as many rares as they would like or as someone they passed by while playing. I think this is what the OP was getting at and I agree.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and I can guarantee that those guys running around in full ebon did NOT harvest them themselves. They got it though raiding for and/or buying them....with in game or RL currency. Bots are they only reason there were that many to be bought in the first placed anyway.</DIV>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TopHatJones wrote:<BR> <DIV>The random system is working as intended AND as it should.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By harvesting 4 hours as opposed to harvesting just one node, you DO have a MUCH greater chance to find a rare b/c you are entering into that "state lotto" that many more times than the one node guy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why is it so important to you people to have all these rare harvests anyway? These rares are supposed to be just that.....RARE. If they are so common that people start to complain that they dont have as many as other people, I say they are TOO COMMON if anything! I am sick and tired of everyone whining and moaning b/c they don't as many rares as they would like or as someone they passed by while playing. I think this is what the OP was getting at and I agree.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and I can guarantee that those guys running around in full ebon did NOT harvest them themselves. They got it though raiding for and/or buying them....with in game or RL currency. Bots are they only reason there were that many to be bought in the first placed anyway.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The point that I, at least, am trying to make is that this is a GAME. And if I put in enough effort in a GAME, unlike RL, I actually expect to get something out of it. There are two ways to approach this game, one involves investing much of your time in pursuits guaranteed to make you money, and one that involves either less overall time or less time spent in money making pursuits. I choose not to sit there grinding in a tradeskill zone, or grinding for a few drops. I have harvested, for hours upon hours upon hours, which is the only way open for someone who doesn't give a flying fig how much money they have to gain a rare. That is where my argument is, not that I should  just be able to go out, spend fifteen minutes in a zone, and grab a rare. I expect to work for it. What I don't expect is to spend my hundreds of hours and not get a comparable number of rares to someone who spends an equal number of hours.</P> <P>I'm not uber, if they truly do set rares at spawn, it doesn't surprise me whatsoever that higher level characters just running somewhere are likely to harvest a rare on the way. They'll go into places I can't go, and therefore, by nodes I can't reach. Of course, they also tend to get their rares through raiding, which is also not open to me in my chosen guild and playstyle. Again, even in a system such as I proposed, with a form of vitality, it would still require an incredible amount of effort to get your rare. Most of us don't want easier rares, we just want to know that after all our effort, we'll have something to gain for it. Refer to the Skinner Box, intermittent rewards provide the best performance. But if you allow too much time between rewards, performance declines. I hardly bother to harvest at the moment. I have stacks and stacks and stacks of tailoring supplies in my teak bank boxes, they're overflowing. I destroy stacks and stacks of raws because I don't even have the room to sell them in my house vault. They aren't worth keeping unless a guildmate or friend asks for them. </P> <P>I'm not asking for easy, but if I'm supposed to sit here for hours on end pressing a button, the button needs to eventually produce a reward, and the current schedule of rewards is [Removed for Content]'d to me. You'll note that there's a real disparity between some people's experience and other's. If FamilyManFirst is correct and the rares are set at spawn, that's part of what explains it.</P> <P>I think that a vitality system could still work, but what they'd have to do was add something to the overall harvesting system. The vitality measurement is already there, that's not a difficult one. As for the nodes having rares set at spawn, once you reached 100% vitality and got your ten enhanced minutes, you could be taken out of the normal harvesting system entirely. It's all numbers....the game could treat it at that time like a lottery/casino game. It would check to see what kind of node you're attempting to harvest, but you would then have no actual effect on that node. Instead, the RNG would check for your chance of harvesting a rare based on whatever they determined would be a fair chance after you've earned 100% vitality, the enhanced chance. You would have no physical effect on the harvesting nodes, but you'd be locked off a node after three tries, as if it had disappeared, and you'd have to find another of that type to keep harvesting. This would retain the element of chance, it wouldn't be a guarantee, and they wouldn't have to change the existing system. 99% of the time, the game would let harvesting go on as it normally does, for only a small percentage of the time would it have to utilize this added feature. It could even, like the rare tradeskilling chances, require you to respond to a special event, to reduce the botter benefit from this.</P> <P>Just a thought, I know it wouldn't be easy to implement, but it would be so very valuable a feature to many of us I think it would be worth their effort. </P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 37 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore<BR></P>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>eek, I didn't realize I double posted :smileysurprised:</BLOCKQUOTE> <p>Message Edited by Ashlian on <span class=date_text>06-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:08 AM</span>

[Kittypoo]

<DIV>FamilyManFirst - </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Isn't the code that shows mob spawns also shown on the server and not on the client computer?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know of an outside modification to EQ1 that can track those spawns, show you their locations and even their con color.  Yes it's a violation of the EULA, but that's the point I'm trying to make.  If someone could create code that could read node loot in that same way, those that would use that code would have an unfair advantage.  Much like the bot farmers that they are trying to get ride of.  That's the point I was trying to make.  It could be possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Thay]

5 stars 4 u <div></div>

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kittypoo wrote:<BR> <DIV>FamilyManFirst - </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Isn't the code that shows mob spawns also shown on the server and not on the client computer?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know of an outside modification to EQ1 that can track those spawns, show you their locations and even their con color.  Yes it's a violation of the EULA, but that's the point I'm trying to make.  If someone could create code that could read node loot in that same way, those that would use that code would have an unfair advantage.  Much like the bot farmers that they are trying to get ride of.  That's the point I was trying to make.  It could be possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I did tailoring in One for a while working on the Coldain Shawl, and the sheer frustration of trying to compete with someone using ShowEQ for those [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] yew leaves was enough to make me rip my hair out. I sincerely hope that's not possible in Two. Edited my post because I realized you were referring to ShowEQ. I've heard rumors of packet sniffers for Two, but I don't know about detecting stationary spawns. We aren't likely to figure that one out either because if there is a way, neither the devs nor the people using them want anyone to know.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 37 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P> <P>argh, I hurt my hand this week and I keep finding typos :smileymad:<BR></P> <P>Message Edited by Ashlian on <SPAN class=date_text>06-10-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:10 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Ashlian on <span class=date_text>06-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:12 AM</span>

[Dart]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rabbit24 wrote:<BR>Quit whining about rare drops on the test server boards. There is a reason why some items are ridiculously hard to find such as Ebon clusters, the Sword of Thunder and the Robe of the Invoker. <FONT color=#ff3333>The entire point is that someone, somewhere might just get lucky and find one NOT that you should sit there for days on end in order to get one.</FONT> No one wants or expects you to do that in order to get these items and you are not entitled to one just because you tried to beat the system.  In fact, the rarity of these items is specifically designed to deter such behavior. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>How black is that kettle?

[Dart]

<DIV>Oh no! I was one starred! someone showed me :p</DIV>

[TopHatJon]

<DIV>Exactly this is just a game. Why are you so preoccupied with rares? Most of us arent supposed to see many, if any, rares. They are a bonus given out randomly to spice things up. You are not supposed to go out and try to farm them. Why? Because they are RARE and purposefully searching for them will MUCH more likely than not result in only frustration. This system is in place precisely to deter what you are doing....farming rares.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just do your normal thing and forget about them. If you happen to find one, GREAT! If you don't find one so what? You dont really need it anyway. The game was NOT balanced around everyone having rares. </DIV>

[Armill]

<DIV>No you quit whining about rare drops :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Ronin]

<div></div><div></div><font face="Arial" size="3">As the OP said, "Quit whining about rare drops on the test server boards". It doesn't belong here. The purpose of the In Testing: Feedback forums is: <span class="text_smallest">"for discussion about new features and content currently being evaluated on Test server." AFAIK, Rare harvests aren't being evaluated on the test server. [edit] AAAARGH. sorry about the font size. it appears copy & pasting causes problems... </span></font> <div></div><p>Message Edited by Roninja on <span class=date_text>06-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:19 PM</span>

[BlaseBlase]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ashlian wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kittypoo wrote:<BR> <DIV>FamilyManFirst - </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Isn't the code that shows mob spawns also shown on the server and not on the client computer?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know of an outside modification to EQ1 that can track those spawns, show you their locations and even their con color.  Yes it's a violation of the EULA, but that's the point I'm trying to make.  If someone could create code that could read node loot in that same way, those that would use that code would have an unfair advantage.  Much like the bot farmers that they are trying to get ride of.  That's the point I was trying to make.  It could be possible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I did tailoring in One for a while working on the Coldain Shawl, and the sheer frustration of trying to compete with someone using ShowEQ for those [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] yew leaves was enough to make me rip my hair out. I sincerely hope that's not possible in Two. Edited my post because I realized you were referring to ShowEQ. I've heard rumors of packet sniffers for Two, but I don't know about detecting stationary spawns. We aren't likely to figure that one out either because if there is a way, neither the devs nor the people using them want anyone to know.</P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 37 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P> <P>argh, I hurt my hand this week and I keep finding typos :smileymad:<BR></P> <P>Message Edited by Ashlian on <SPAN class=date_text>06-10-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:10 AM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Ashlian on <SPAN class=date_text>06-10-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:12 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR></P> <P>AFAIK, the ShowEQ stuff only gave info on what was needed by your computer to render the world properly.  This would mean that yes, someone using a program like ShowEQ would now that there are however many nodes up of a certain type, and where they are located.  Like an earlier poster stated however, unless EQ2 devs made a mistake, you would only know that ore_012 is at loc 112.08, -64.73, 972.45...</P> <P>Unless the harvester was really sophisticated and built a database that recorded the harvest info for each node, at what loc, and time (in RL and relation to server reset), and rare spawns were pre-determined based on a static algorithm, there would be only a small advantage to this kind of extra-sensory knowledge.  Of course, if static pre-determination is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if the fabled bot businesses aren't working on it.</P>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>Kittypoo wrote:FamilyManFirst - Isn't the code that shows mob spawns also shown on the server and not on the client computer?I know of an outside modification to EQ1 that can track those spawns, show you their locations and even their con color. Yes it's a violation of the EULA, but that's the point I'm trying to make. If someone could create code that could read node loot in that same way, those that would use that code would have an unfair advantage. Much like the bot farmers that they are trying to get ride of. That's the point I was trying to make. It could be possible.<hr></blockquote>Sorry for the late answer, I've been gone for a few days due to RL.I never played EQ1, nor do I have any knowledge of it save for passing comments here on the EQ2 boards. However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were some mistakes made by EQ1 devs which, hopefully, EQ2 devs would have learned from.It could easily be possible to for a dev to pass Too Much Information to a client to ease server burden. For example, the dev could pass info on every harvest spawn, including spawn contents, and allow the client to determine, based on code, what graphic to portray at the correct point. That may have been what was done with EQ1, with the devs never suspecting that some Bright Boy would come up with a way to read that raw info to improperly allow a player to find rare nodes (mob or harvest - does EQ1 even have harvests?).I would hope that the EQ2 devs, having learned from the past, would simply pass the info on what to display (rock, log, root, etc.) and keep the info on the node content on the server. That would make it extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a 3rd party program to figure out where rare nodes were short of hacking into the EQ2 servers - and the penalty for doing that would probably far exceed having your account banned.<blockquote><hr>BlaseBlase wrote:Unless the harvester was really sophisticated and built a database that recorded the harvest info for each node, at what loc, and time (in RL and relation to server reset), and rare spawns were pre-determined based on a static algorithm, there would be only a small advantage to this kind of extra-sensory knowledge. Of course, if static pre-determination is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if the fabled bot businesses aren't working on it.<hr></blockquote>It appears (from one post, unconfirmed by me at any rate) that spawn contents <i>may</i> be static after server reset, i.e. all the nodes are in the same place with the same contents. However, player actions seem to increase the randomness of node placement as time goes by, i.e. what nodes are harvested and when alter what nodes are spawned to replace them and when. Therefore, no database would really suffice to allow a botter or farmer to figure out where node rares would pop, since they couldn't predict what real players would harvest nor when.