Say it isn't So! /Duel

[CheezeBurgerAnimal]

<DIV>Read in the PvP forum that /Duel was included with LU#9b</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is that true?</DIV>

[Eneg]

umm.. yes <div></div>

[CheezeBurgerAnimal]

<P>Does /Duel work un-grouped?</P> <P>I'd rather see that as a requirement for dueling. </P>

[Eneg]

good question.. I dont know what would prevent groupmates from healing one of the duelers. Only thign the notes stipulate about groups in dueling is that both combatants cant be in the <i>same</i> group. *** Dueling *** - Now you can challenge enemies or allies to a duel! - Targeting another player and typing /duel sends them an invitation to battle. - You can fight in any location, whether it be in a city, inside a house, outdoors, or in the deepest dungeon. - To give up before the death blow is landed, type /duel_surrender to end the duel. - If two players are battling and one zones, camps, or goes linkdead, that player surrenders the duel. - The outcome of the duel is broadcast to everyone in the zone, whether it be death or surrender. - Be warned: Dying in a duel results in the same penalties as death to an NPC. You will drop a shard, incur XP debt, and take damage to your equipment. Nobody said duels were without risk. - You can neither offer nor accept a duel if: - You are in the same group as the potential opponent. - Either of you is considering another duel challenge. - Either of you is currently dueling someone else. - Either of you is locked to an encounter. - Either of you is on the hate list of an NPC. - Either of you is currently dead. - Either of you is on the other's ignore list. - Either of you is on a griffin. - Dueling tests not only the abilities of your class, but how well you play it. Let the battle begin!<div></div>

[CheezeBurgerAnimal]

<A href="http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/patch/eq2/motd/en/updates_test.html" target=_blank>Test Center Launch Pad Notes</A> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*** Dueling *** - You are in the same group as the potential opponent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE please consider changing this option to being grouped only. That way we can avoid the /duel spam and keep our Ignore lists shorter.</DIV>

[LuckyPSD]

Great so PvP will not be only in certain area's like they repeated alot of times. Now we have to go back to /ooc taunting and duel spam... great. <div></div>

[Ceruline]

<DIV>The reason it works thatway is probably because it makes it simpler to code - they don't need to worry about group buffsand limiting it so your buffs don't help your opponent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Better, just put in a duel autodecline flag so you can't be challenged when you don't want to be.</DIV>

[msheaf]

<DIV>I totally agree with the auto-decline flag being a necessaity. But once again with the SOE proves that your can't believe a word they say about anything.</DIV>

[roarfrost]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LuckyPSD wrote:<BR>Great so PvP will not be only in certain area's like they repeated alot of times. Now we have to go back to /ooc taunting and duel spam... great.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yep. I knew it would be this way.</P> <P> </P>

[Azamien-Dermorate]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CheezeBurgerAnimal wrote:<BR><A href="http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/patch/eq2/motd/en/updates_test.html" target=_blank>Test Center Launch Pad Notes</A> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*** Dueling *** - You are in the same group as the potential opponent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE please consider changing this option to being grouped only. That way we can avoid the /duel spam and keep our Ignore lists shorter.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>wouldnt you then just get annyoing group invites instead?  that really doesnt change anything

[CheezeBurgerAnimal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azamien-Dermorate wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CheezeBurgerAnimal wrote:<BR><A href="http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/patch/eq2/motd/en/updates_test.html" target=_blank>Test Center Launch Pad Notes</A> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*** Dueling *** - You are in the same group as the potential opponent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE please consider changing this option to being grouped only. That way we can avoid the /duel spam and keep our Ignore lists shorter.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>wouldnt you then just get annyoing group invites instead?  that really doesnt change anything <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>No, I'm already grouped in game 99% of the time. But on hearing other players ideas of a auto deny duel, I'm all for that instead. <p>Message Edited by CheezeBurgerAnimal on <span class=date_text>05-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:58 PM</span>

[Matia]

Personally I think it being in a group at all should prevent a duel. Otherwise the one person in the group who duels and loses will give the rest of the group shared XP debt. Of course, that's just me. :smileywink:

[Ashlian]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CheezeBurgerAnimal wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Azamien-Dermorate wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> CheezeBurgerAnimal wrote:<BR><A href="http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/patch/eq2/motd/en/updates_test.html" target=_blank>Test Center Launch Pad Notes</A> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*** Dueling *** - You are in the same group as the potential opponent.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE please consider changing this option to being grouped only. That way we can avoid the /duel spam and keep our Ignore lists shorter.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>wouldnt you then just get annyoing group invites instead?  that really doesnt change anything <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>No, I'm already grouped in game 99% of the time. But on hearing other players ideas of a auto deny duel, I'm all for that instead. <P>Message Edited by CheezeBurgerAnimal on <SPAN class=date_text>05-19-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:58 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I already occasionally get annoying group invites, but I'm used to that....epic clerics in One were never NOT in demand. I just have to ask though, did that many people on non PvP servers in One really get constant /duel spam? I played on Mithaniel Marr for over five years and I can recall receiving an unplanned /duel invite perhaps four or five times in that entire span. The only times I ever actually accepted a duel in One were to do things like have my corpse dragged in Hate. Also, I'm sure it would be easy enough to add in a chat filter to remove the zone wide messages (though I think my favorite zone wide messages in One were when Packetloss and Latency went around defeating various level 50's....) Are voluntarily accepted duels such a make or break issue? I'm not saying people don't have legitimate gripes about SOE and their frequently unclear messages to players, but as long as I'm only receiving those once in a blue moon duel invites from total strangers, I truly don't see how this will affect the majority of gameplay. I view it as similar to getting hit on by annoying RL persons......just politely say no, if they persist...../ignore. Pity it's not as easy to do in RL :smileytongue: </P> <P>Ashlian Liadan, 32 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</P>

[CheezeBurgerAnimal]

As far as /duel spam, my only experience is SWG. It didn't happen often but when it did it was very very bad. In EQ2 its bound to happen unless they offer us the Auto Deny feature. I'm in group 99% of my play time with the same people. I never have LFG tag on yet nearly every night I get a request from another player to join there group. The vast majority of them are polite but it is still annoying. Level 40 Fury

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Ashlian wrote: <blockquote> <hr> CheezeBurgerAnimal wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Azamien-Dermorate wrote: <blockquote> <hr> CheezeBurgerAnimal wrote:<a href="http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/patch/eq2/motd/en/updates_test.html" target="_blank">Test Center Launch Pad Notes</a> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>*** Dueling *** - You are in the same group as the potential opponent.</div> <div> </div> <div>SOE please consider changing this option to being grouped only. That way we can avoid the /duel spam and keep our Ignore lists shorter.</div> <hr> </blockquote>wouldnt you then just get annyoing group invites instead?  that really doesnt change anything <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>No, I'm already grouped in game 99% of the time. But on hearing other players ideas of a auto deny duel, I'm all for that instead. <div></div> <p>Message Edited by CheezeBurgerAnimal on <span class="date_text">05-19-2005</span> <span class="time_text">01:58 PM</span> </p><hr> </blockquote> <p>I already occasionally get annoying group invites, but I'm used to that....epic clerics in One were never NOT in demand. I just have to ask though, did that many people on non PvP servers in One really get constant /duel spam? I played on Mithaniel Marr for over five years and I can recall receiving an unplanned /duel invite perhaps four or five times in that entire span. The only times I ever actually accepted a duel in One were to do things like have my corpse dragged in Hate. Also, I'm sure it would be easy enough to add in a chat filter to remove the zone wide messages (though I think my favorite zone wide messages in One were when Packetloss and Latency went around defeating various level 50's....) Are voluntarily accepted duels such a make or break issue? I'm not saying people don't have legitimate gripes about SOE and their frequently unclear messages to players, but as long as I'm only receiving those once in a blue moon duel invites from total strangers, I truly don't see how this will affect the majority of gameplay. I view it as similar to getting hit on by annoying RL persons......just politely say no, if they persist...../ignore. Pity it's not as easy to do in RL :smileytongue: </p> <p>Ashlian Liadan, 32 Fury, 32 Tailor of Mistmoore</p><hr></blockquote> I was on Firiona Vie and passing through certain areas was invitation enough to some to "invite" you to duel... and I'm not talking cross-faction, I played a wood-elf ranger and would get challenged to duels by those around Kelethin, generally newish characters or those who thought dueling was so much cooler than anything else.  I would also get duel "invites" in the areas which were known by many to be "good for XP", such as that zone on the moon with the camels and wolves and stuff (sorry completely drawing a blank on the name.. it was off of the caverns/hall which were directly off of the Nexus).  Basically any place you had people working to maximise XP, generally the immature people, it was likely to get /duel out of the blue.  I was not a bad-[expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], I had (and have) OOC off.  I don't go around taking other people's camps and will often leave myself if there is a dispute over a spot because it really doesn't matter to me.  I did nothing to draw attention to myself or engender duels out of ire.  Mostly I would get /duel "invites" because thus and so person figured I was a ranger and gimped (I was in /role mode nearly all the time.. but the equipment does give it away a bit).  I never accepted any and was ridiculed because I didn't.  There were several occassions I was verbally and visually griefed over it as were some friends of mine.  In one case we had all put the individual on ignore after he had been spam /duel'ing most of us and then he kept hopping around us and getting in our way as much as he could. I want a setting in options to auto-decline.  I want a setting in options to not have to -ever- see the "win/lose" messages. I don't care if other people want to beat up on each other, I just have no desire to have -my- game impacted by it.  It's bad enough having a huge box in my face with a group invite I did not want (i.e. while I was not LFG) that I have to click off.  It's actually worse that the annoying will have an extra tool.  I also do not want to see any changes due to PvP whining.  It's bad enough there are so few differences between the classes now.</span><div></div>

[imakee]

Hey look someone from Test is actually going to post about how dueling is working on Test: Right now it seems to be broken (who is surprised?).  Apparently when you duel with someone the encounter is not locked. I have yet to test if this means someone outside of the duel can heal a duel participant (I don't  think having a GM heal someone counts since they can do that anyway - I will get you Grobble, I was so close).  Another issue is that you can NOT use heroic opportunities during a duel. I believe this is related to the not a locked encounter issue (you can only use HO's in a locked encounter - to prevent the less honorable people from starting a HO in safety and using the finishing blow alone) There are also no announcements to the zone when someone wins a duel. Only the surrender gets announced to the zone. The above are all bugs. That is not the way /duel is meant to work. now here is the feedback When you die in a duel, you drop a shard and you incur exp debt.  You get the nice (and familiar to me by now) revive window. You get the joy of reviving and running to your shiny white shard. It is just like having a mob kill you. With these penalties to death in a duel in place I doubt there will be lots /dueling spam. <div></div>

[Kalifax]

<P>I bought this game becouse it did NOT have PVP and Sony so much as said it never would. If I wanted PVP I would still be playing Unreal.</P> <P>I definatly want an option to exclude /duel invites. </P>

[adamflanagan]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kalifax wrote:<div></div> <p>I bought this game becouse it did NOT have PVP and Sony so much as said it never would. If I wanted PVP I would still be playing Unreal.</p> <p>I definatly want an option to exclude /duel invites. </p><hr></blockquote>they didnt say that. they said it would be in game from launch</span><div></div>

[TheGeneral]

<P>SOE never once said that there would not ever be any PVP in the game.  They said that there was no PVP at this time.  Duels are completely optional and chances are with all the feedback they will probably implement the autodecline feature.  Cry me a river people, I cant stand PVP myself but there is no reason to react this way.  There is a playerbase that wants PVP and I say give it to them as long as it does not effect me.  I actually hope to see PVP servers created.  Some people enjoy that aspect of the game.  Who are you to deny them that?  Zone announcements can be filtered, reach behind you and unwad your panties.  PLZ K THX.</P> <P>The only time I will start throwing a fit over this is if they start balancing the game for PVP which in turn usually unbalances PVE.  Then and only then will I start throwing fits about PVP... oh and also, you did realize that this is the test server right?</P>

[Kalifax]

<DIV>Everquest 2 PvP Player vs Player</DIV> <DIV>Official Word from Sony Online Entertainment about Player vs. Player within EverQuest II</DIV> <DIV>"Just as the original EverQuest was geared towards PvE (player vs. environment), EverQuest II has a similar focus.<BR>There are currently no plans for player vs. player combat in EverQuest II."</DIV> <DIV>From: <A href="http://www.eq2online.com/content/guides-pvpplayervsplayer.php" target=_blank><FONT color=#ffff00>http://www.eq2online.com/content/guides-pvpplayervsplayer.php</FONT></A></DIV> <DIV><BR>Faarwolf on 'Why can't we dicussion pvp?':</DIV> <DIV><BR>Because there is no PVP, no plans for it, multiple threads about it, and they historically become flamewars of left to thrive. Sorry.</DIV> <DIV>____________________<BR>Faarwolf<BR>The Wrath of the Mods<BR>EverQuest II<BR>"I don't make the rules, but I *do* enforce them!<BR></DIV>

[TheGeneral]

I find myself to be pretty skilled at reading comprehension.  No where in that post does it say there there will never ever be pvp.

[Kalifax]

Those quotes are as close to being definative as SOE will ever get unfortunatly. I'm not going to argue symantics to death, I would simply be happy with a no /duel flag that actually works. I have only seen player speculation on a flag though and doubt that Sony has plans for one yet. Thats speculation on my part of course.

[Big Da]

<P>Ah well im a Templar and I cant see a whole lot of point asking me to duel, so hopefully not many invites. I really wish they would put in a complete opt of for duel though.</P> <P>Auto decline & Opt out of all messages please</P> <P>Also a timer for Opting back in to duel state of say an hour or two, so people cant send a tell taunting you in to dueling becuase even if you decided to duel them you wouldnt be able to.</P>

[TheGeneral]

<P>Kalifax,</P> <P>Im not trying to be a jerk, i'm just making a point.  Advertising and business eat, breathe, and sleep symantics.  Thats just the way things are.  Like I said before though, I really do hope they implement a no duel flag that you can set however, /ignore works really well also.</P>

[Carryne]

I played EQ1 for a couple of years on Antonia Bayle and I was never once challenged to a duel.  Hopefully this will also be the case in EQ2 and duel invites will be a rarity. <div></div>

[Kaknya]

I remember quite a few times especially summertime and weekends, where i would get duel requests atleast 5-6 times a day. I was a lvl 32 cleric at the time. As well as the times when people would sit at the top of unrest manor and spam the whole zone constantly until someone would come and duel them. Already waiting for the complaint threads to start up about how no one will duel with them. And as far as balancing for pvp.. I don't think there should be any. The whole thing should be about using your skill and knowledge of your character to beat your opponent, not a key mash contest. Realisticly I chose the profession as a healer to help people, and most of my spells are geared towards that. If the wizard plays thier part, theres no way in hates that I should ever be able to beat her. It should be about choosing your battles wisely and using some intelect, not running up to everyone you see, dueling, and then screaming foul and unbalanced if you loose. enough of my rants.. I'm on the bandwagon for blocking duels as well. kaknya/poldera/trindelle/jalina/tristin ..test server <div></div>

[Margen]

<DIV>I don't play in test I admit, but if they want to add dueling thats fine.  But just as some people have said, give us the abiltiy to have a non-dueling flag to avoid the immuture players that can be not the most peasent people to be around.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In Eq1 the only people I ever dueled was guildies, usually while waiting for raid to form to kill time and the understanding was always to stop at 10pct life (also with raid leaders ok of course).  I never dueled against someone I didn't know or trust (didn't need the corpse run), plus with the way the classes where in EQ1 against some classes you had no chance if you played one of the less powerful classes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see dueling as something that can be fun once in while, but give us the option to have a command that we aren't intreasted in dueling at this time.  So we avoid the spaming and hopefully the childish rants of some of the communitys more immuture members (which unfortuntly doesn't depend on the age of the player).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>V/R</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Blackoath</DIV>

[SilentSam]

<P>Random duel spam...bad</P> <P>Dueling with my buds to kill time while we wait for others...could be fun.</P> <P>I bet one reason they're doing this duel thing  though is to test the new combat changes.  What better way to see how class balancing works than to let everyone beat on each other.  :smileyhappy:</P>

[FamilyManFir]

<blockquote><hr>SilentSam wrote:<P>I bet one reason they're doing this duel thing though is to test the new combat changes. What better way to see how class balancing works than to let everyone beat on each other. :smileyhappy:</P> <hr></blockquote>That's an interesting idea, SilentSam, but I doubt it. From everything I've read PvP balancing is a lot different than PvE balancing. Heck, according to Moorgard, SOE built the CA/Spell abilities to have two separate sets of effects depending on whether you're PvP-ing or PvE-ing, just so any PvP balancing they decide to do won't affect PvE balance.

[Suraklin]

Instead of adding Dueling which will probably be buggy as hell...why not fix the bugs and broken classes that have gone untouched for the last 6 months first?

[Daeanor]

<span><blockquote><hr>Suraklin wrote:Instead of adding Dueling which will probably be buggy as hell...why not fix the bugs and broken classes that have gone untouched for the last 6 months first? <div></div><hr></blockquote>That's pretty easy to answer. There was a large demand, and they thought they better cater to that demand. It really is as simple as that. I don't like it much myself, but that's the way it goes sometimes. They have a business to run after all.</span><div></div>

[AzraelAzgard]

<P>Im looking forward to duelling with friends and guildies messing about.</P> <P>But.</P> <P>Taking xp debt, and incurring item wear has put me off completly, now there will be no duels to the end, one will always be surrendering, the costs for repairing decent equipment are allready through the roof. 25g atm ! and thats low compared to some people. I dont mind the xp debt and leaving a shard so much but equipment incurring wear really puts me off. And would take all the fun out of it, sorry cant duel I dont have 25g to constantly repair =/</P>

[SuRF]

<DIV>also what about /PVP command to let peeps know that i am looking for duels ?</DIV> <DIV>just like the /LFG and /LFW</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i also support the auto decline PVP command.</DIV>

[Shade]

Just another half thought out system by half thinking devs that only care about making the game half as fun as it should be. I actually like the idea of a /duel, I'm not big on pvp but it has it's moments and can be alot of fun in a RP situation, but anyone thats' been around SOE long enough will know this will just be another messy attempt at positive implimentation and the last people they are actually going to listen to are the players will actually "play" within the system. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like everything else this is going to be broken for a long time and it's just another quick and very lame way of somehow trying to compete with current MMO's that offer actual fun value to this sort of game play. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways, we all know where this is going but my favorite line in the current update notes is :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>- Be warned: Dying in a duel results in the same penalties as death to an NPC. You will drop a shard, incur XP debt, and take damage to your equipment. <STRONG>Nobody said duels were without risk.<BR></STRONG></DIV> <DIV>LOL, yes nobody would actually expect for the SOE/EQ2 team to actually make anything fun, thanks for not dissapointing us. </DIV>

[SavinDwa]

<P>I strongly suspect, but have no emperical evidence to back it up, that:</P> <P>1) Less than 10% of the players would actually like the option of being challlenged to a duel by someone they don't know.</P> <P>2) Less than 20% of the players have any interest in dueling at all.   An of those, half would try it once and then never again,</P> <P>3) The type of people that get a rush from killing other player also don't get a rush from dieing.  This means they will becoem a major vocal minority complaining about how their class is not balanced.  Sooner or later SOE will make changes that spoil the game for the rest of us.  The arena dueling option in the coming expansion seems more interesting -- go buy a lion and see how well it does against a friends bear in the arean.  Now we could maybe get balance without messing everything else up.</P> <P>Its to late to stop this, but I think it would be great for players to have a PVP flag and if its off then people cannot challenge you do a duel.  This should always be the default.  So that everyone has to change it to be able to duel.  </P> <P>Anyone sending tells/spamming a player to get them to agree to a duel when they have the option turned off is a bannable offense. </P> <P>You can only duel someone within 4 levels of yourself -- otherwise its plain stupid.</P> <P>Some classes will get killed in duels -- tough luck.  If you want to duel go pick a class that will be good at it the way it is. </P> <P>Some classes will lose advantages that are major to them in NPC combat -- for instance, I have a ranger, but my opponent can still see me ... kind of hurts me doesn't it?  The scout class is designed for maxiumum damage from behind and hidden except all players can see you.  I don't want this changed, I bring it up just to show the very obvious kind of changes that will be needed.  Lets say I'm being attacked by a guardian ... if I can impede them and stay out of melle range it will become a bow contest.... guess who will win.  Stupid .. no skill involved.</P> <P>Sigh .... </P> <P>If I wanted to duel it would be more fun to just go to an arean and get my pick of toons to fight with.  Then, no matter what level you are you start off with a level 1 toon fighting other level 1 toons and progress from there ...</P> <P>I'm ranting .. *sigh*  .. but I really think this is an ill conceived bone to throw at a small group of people who want PvP.    Since they are such a small group they will argue against others opting out with nice words like "but they won't know they like PvP if they aren't forced to try it".</P> <P>Anyone with half a brain can look at the current 24 classes and see that in a one on one battle there is almost no balance unless the two are from the same class with the same equipment.  So what is the point.  Does anyone really want to find out if a Ranger can beat a Healer?  In addition, we have the uber guild problem .. equipment will matter big time.  </P> <P>So basically it comes down to same class same level, or close, battles that would even make sense.</P> <P> </P> <P>In the end it will become a tool for bullys like it need in EQ1 (aor an exploit to get home fast LOL)</P> <p>Message Edited by SavinDwarf on <span class=date_text>05-25-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:51 AM</span>