Changing Movement Speed

[Calamitous Oeuvre]

This is simply [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] people.   Why would you change movement speed decreasing buffs to ^^^'s.  If you implement this then I want to see changes made to my debuffs the effect movement speed decreases, I.E Daro's Sorrowful Dirge, Selo's Chords of Cessastion and others.  That would only be fair, if your going to seriously [Removed for Content] certain spells, then it would only be right to make them more effective in another area.  <div></div>

[Amise]

I assume they're doing it to prevent people soloing raid mobs.  Which in itself is fine by me, it fits the context of the game.  But any spells that contain a movement debuff component in addition to other effects probably need to be modified.  <div></div>

[VelvetAcid]

<span>From the update:<blockquote><hr>- Highly challenging encounters (typically denoted as +++ or ^^^ and greater) are now immune to spells that reduce their movement speed. They will pursue their enemies at a rate greater than their target's speed. <div></div><hr></blockquote>So does this mean epic mobs are immune to the spell or just the effect of the slow? As a dirge i for example have a spell that slows movement speed, slows attack speed and drains power over time, i sure hope they just haven't thrown a nerf on all spells that have similar effects aswell as the movement speed decrease.</span><div></div>

[Amise]

<span><blockquote><hr>VelvetAcid13 wrote:<span>From the update:<blockquote><hr>- Highly challenging encounters (typically denoted as +++ or ^^^ and greater) are now immune to spells that reduce their movement speed. They will pursue their enemies at a rate greater than their target's speed. <div></div><hr></blockquote>So does this mean epic mobs are immune to the spell or just the effect of the slow? As a dirge i for example have a spell that slows movement speed, slows attack speed and drains power over time, i sure hope they just haven't thrown a nerf on all spells that have similar effects aswell as the movement speed decrease.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>I have a couple of CAs that have a damage component and in addition have a stifle or root.  The stifle and root don't affect epic targets, and if I try to use these on epic mobs, the damage portion doesn't land either.  That seems to suggest that they haven't figured out how to separate the individual components of a single spell/CA.    It may work differently for CAs that have multiple debuffs rather than debuff and damage; can't say as I don't have CAs of that type.</span><div></div>

[FrostP]

<P>The reason raid mobs are immune to slow and will chase players faster then they can run is designed to combat the tactic of kiting.</P> <P>This is a common tactic that raid groups use to seperate one raid mob from another by getting a scout with a bow and pathfinding to run around firing arrows at the raid mob and let it chase the scout without ever getting close enough to hurt the scout.</P> <P>The main effect this has is it reduces the challenge of the raid mob to the rest of the raid group because there are less hits incoming on the main tanks and thus less work for the healers to do. </P> <P>The tactic dosnt work on every raid mob but some who are not alone with bodyguards or perhaps a couple of ^^^ together kiting and making one of them chase you while someone else casts slow on the raid mob is extremely effective.</P> <P>Its the same reason stun, mez and root don't work. Raid mobs are designed to be a challenge as a whole any way a raid group can seperate the raid encounter group and split up the damage and pressure to heal makes it too easy.</P>

[Barneba]

<DIV>Aye, I agree with FrostPaw - thats the reason.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Your spell still work on any other type of encounters, and its no different to the stiffle/stun/mez/root spells that the rest of us have that also dont work on epic and raid mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I see no reason to compensate your spells.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Anlari]

So let me get this straight now, the challenge of raid mobs are now pretty much stand there toe to toe and take turns swinging while someone heals you?  Doesn't sound very interesting to me.  Roots and stuns should be needed for some raid mobs, this stand there and trade swings crap is getting realy old realy quick.

[Bladesss]

<P>As a lvl 50 warden i have NEVER found any practical tactical use of my snare spell on any mob in a solo or group situation. Finnaly at lvl 50, the snare had a use in raid situations. So they nerfed it. Since it now will only work on the mobs that dont need it. </P> <P>Talonstrike</P>

[Dortel]

<DIV>/agree</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My undergrowth and seizing vines snares both have a 44-45 agility reducer which is very beneficial for raid mobs.  Even more so than the snare component most of the time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Will those spells still work for the agility component ? or will both spells become useless?</DIV>

[Malack]

Wonder why they didn't just give these mobs a summon ability.

[Kaknya]

So I guess if you happen to be running thru nek and get too close to the spider queen, or too close to the dragons.. you might as well stop and die.. since theres no way you will be able to get away from them.. same for raid i guess as well. If your raid suddenly goes sour, pretty much the only thing you could do to keep atleast SOME of the group alive, would be to sacrifice the tank.. Buff up the tank, ward.. tank taunts like crazy,.. and everyone else runs.. <div></div>

[yoddamomma]

<DIV>Just for clarification:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>- Highly challenging encounters (typically denoted as +++ or ^^^ and greater) are now immune to spells that reduce their movement speed. <STRONG><FONT color=#cc3333>They will pursue their enemies at a rate greater than their target's speed.</FONT></STRONG> __________________________________________________ ________________________________</P> <P>Does that mean normal run speed or is that regardless of any buffs, boots, etc. ?</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>

[Helt]

<P>Just my opinion, but I think it would be good for both sides.</P> <P>Why not just reduce the timer on the spells and make them much harder to land than to completely take them out of the game for raid mobs. Most of us design a style of play that fits for us. I think SOE is taking the wrong approach, by making us completely change our style of play. </P> <P>Reduce the amount of time that the spell will stick and make it harder to land is a win win for both sides.</P> <P> </P> <P>Remember, Just an opinion</P> <P>Helton</P>

[Dortel]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kaknya wrote:<BR>So I guess if you happen to be running thru nek and get too close to the spider queen, or too close to the dragons.. you might as well stop and die.. since theres no way you will be able to get away from them.. same for raid i guess as well. If your raid suddenly goes sour, pretty much the only thing you could do to keep atleast SOME of the group alive, would be to sacrifice the tank.. Buff up the tank, ward.. tank taunts like crazy,.. and everyone else runs..<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I assume that they will run faster than your combat engaged run speed, not your SoW and non combat run buff runspeed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I like the summon idea much better than thier current alternative.  Alot of the snares have other debuffs attached that I am hoping will not become useless due to this change.</DIV>

[A]

Solo kiting of major mobs was the sole reason for soe to introduce the mob summon ability in EQ1.  The premise here is no different.   Any 3 or 4 arrow mob is designed to be kill by 12-24 people not 1 or 2.  So if the later is possible then its good for soe to make changes that prevent it.   As far as having a raid force there and still using kiting as a tactic to keep one or more mobs off the raid while other mobs are killed... again this is not how the devs designed the encounter to work and therefore the players are trivializing the content.  Once people started seeing that this kind of thing would work they should have totally known it was just a matter of time before it was removed.

[Reidas]

Also keep in mind that jsut about every ranger CA has a snare component by the time you hit lvl 50.  I understand the reason behind this change but it effectively removes our ability to use any of our CA's on raid mobs. <div></div>

[Calamitous Oeuvre]

I understand your concern with people kiteing around raid mobs, but makeing it so that any CA with a snare ability no longer affects raid mobs effectivly makes many people's CA's and dubuffs in essence useless.  SOE I think has made a HUGE blunder here, not that I would expect anything better of them, they seem to always screw things up before they fix them, and in many cases they don't fix them.  I don't mean to rant but I am really frustrated with this change. <div></div>

[FrostP]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Calamitous Oeuvre wrote:<BR>I understand your concern with people kiteing around raid mobs, but makeing it so that any CA with a snare ability no longer affects raid mobs effectivly makes many people's CA's and dubuffs in essence useless.  SOE I think has made a HUGE blunder here, not that I would expect anything better of them, they seem to always screw things up before they fix them, and in many cases they don't fix them.  I don't mean to rant but I am really frustrated with this change.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>As a level 50 Wizard I have many many spells that are useless vs Raid mobs. In fact...I have 3 roots, 2 stuns, 2 stifles, 1mez and about half the raid mobs ignore ice comet totaly! Thats 9 spells I use at tier 5 that are useless vs raid mobs.</P> <P>So I'm sorry but adding slow a spell I ALSO have dosn't really make me think they are screwing my character up or making the game worse. They are designing the raid mobs to be fought in a single way....tot to toe.</P> <P>As someome mentioned earlier its not very tactical to prevent the use of all these uniquely none offensive spells but that is how soe chose to design raid mobs to ensure they are not easy to beat, the trouble with tactics is as proven tactics give human players an edge they exploit to the fullest then use it all the time because its the best way to get the loot. Then they come on these forums and complain the raid content is too easy and presents no challenge.</P> <P>So by comparrison players who are complaining they have a snare or slow spell and are being affected by this change so much its going to ruin the game for them let me say this......youre not at the top of the food chain when it comes to losing spell effectiveness vs raid mobs you dont see casters complaining root, mez and stun don't work on all raid mobs so maybe you should put it into perspective a raid mob dosn't die because of one class or one spell it dies because of a combined effort by ALL classess and ALL effective spells so in the big scale of a 24man raid you are being handicapped no more personaly then every other group that raids.</P> <P>As to if other components of the spell won't work also this should not be the case. Slow spells will not be resisted they will simply just never effect the mob I have a dot and stifle and whenever I cast it on raid mobs the dot always lands but the stifle just never happens. A resist stops the entire spell where as immunity simply ignores whatever part of the spell the raid mob is immune to. If you don't believe this is happening for your spells with additional effects bug report it.</P>

[Bladesss]

<DIV>I dont like losing my snare, but to reduce some of the grips:</DIV> <DIV>(Post patch)</DIV> <DIV>I tried casting Snare/agi debuff on CL-epic king. The snare did stick. Did not get the normal snare graphics and the mob did not seem to slow down. But the snare icon was in my maintained spells for the normal amount of time. Presumably it was debuffing agi. </DIV> <DIV>Not sure about CA's but at least some spells that include a snare component can still be cast and hit. Whether the non-snare components are really working, i dont know</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Talonstrike </DIV> <DIV>50 Warden</DIV>

[Flust]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Bladesss wrote:<BR> <DIV>I dont like losing my snare, but to reduce some of the grips:</DIV> <DIV>(Post patch)</DIV> <DIV>I tried casting Snare/agi debuff on CL-epic king. The snare did stick. Did not get the normal snare graphics and the mob did not seem to slow down. But the snare icon was in my maintained spells for the normal amount of time. Presumably it was debuffing agi. </DIV> <DIV>Not sure about CA's but at least some spells that include a snare component can still be cast and hit. Whether the non-snare components are really working, i dont know</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Talonstrike </DIV> <DIV>50 Warden</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thast atleast good news that CAs with snare built in are still able to land.  Since, Rangers have a lot of our high lvl CAs with built in snares.