Glad to see Alchs got Love with LU9a.........

[BloodSmo]

<DIV>I have no problem helping carpenders, but what about Alchs, i mean honestly, what do we have to do.  You made all furniture be player bought, i would recomend the same for alch craftables, but it wont help.  Tailors and Woodworkers have kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] items that go in activatable slots, Provs have food, what do alchs have, potions and poisons that work for 1/30 of the time, and 1/100 as well.........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Give Alchs something that we can make and i dont know, actually SELLS.  Our only finnished product is essences, and when their are 1000 times more pages of adept 1s for 1/10 the price of makeing an app 4, is this a viable product?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you fix one class per update should i be expecting my fix this year?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you got rid of interdependency you should have gotten rid of alchemest, but no here i am, watching other classes make thier imbuned items and selling them for 30-50gp while i barely sell an extract everyone has a guy in their guild that sells em at cost.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can we get something that sells to the masses?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When the expansion comes out, if you increase the tradeskill lvl cap to 60 will i get more Poisons that noone wants, more Potions that noone needs, or more Essences that wont sell?   I just want to get prepared for yet another let down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[K3mik4l]

[Removed for Content]?Think about sages here for a moment. We only get to make scrolls for sale. ONLY scrolls. There, I said it, hehe.Now, I could ask the same question about sage love, couldn't I? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[BloodSmo]

<DIV>I do agree that Sages are broken as well, but they are broken for different reasons.  Anyone going into the sage profession knew they were going to be makeing scrolls.  What they didnt know is that the adept 1 rate would be so obscene.  When thier  are 100 times more pages of adept 1s than app4s their is a problem.  I got into Alch becase i wanted to help other crafters.  Then they took away the only reason to be an alch and gave us what? o right nothing.  They broke our class and gave us nothing, SOE seems to do that alot though.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Jewlers should be complaing about the scout market, o wait they can make jewlery............why cna alchs make nothing besides essances noone wants?</DIV>

[nicholaspoi]

The SAME is true for Sages, we actualy can only effectively sell to four player class types too.

[LuckyPSD]

Alchs get some love? Am I mistaken but didn't you just get a entire live event based around you? That was alchs wasn't it? <div></div>

[IsleWit]

Im going to throw a suggestion out: --Roll alchemists and sages into one subclass. <div></div>

[BloodSmo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LuckyPSD wrote:<BR>Alchs get some love? Am I mistaken but didn't you just get a entire live event based around you? That was alchs wasn't it?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Not one person ever asked me to make a cure for the plague as it didnt affect any stats, also as a pure crafter i was unable to do the quest, thanks for the event.......</P> <P>I'm just confused why alchs are still in the game, why can jewlers make scout spells and fill 7 equipment slots yet alchs can make fighter essences and can make nothing else?</P> <P>I would really like to know why classes that make spells, which you would think would be a vital part of the game, keep getting overlooked.....</P> <P>I would be happy if an alch could make 1, just 1 finnished product that people actually want, rolling sages and alchs into wouldnt help the problem it would just make a larger group of people fight against each other for what little business their is.....</P> <P>Carpenders had a market, most good house items were already made by carpenders, now you made items that you used to be able to buy from an NPC for low prices carpender made.......every carpender on my server already gouges prices, i cant wait till i need a freeport coffee table and i have to pay a carpender 10gp to get it.......</P> <P>You beat the hell out of alchemests 5 months ago with the nerf bat and walked away...........im still waiting for my LU that will fix your mistake......</P> <P> </P> <p>Message Edited by BloodSmoke on <span class=date_text>05-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:22 AM</span>

[MaenaBowy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BloodSmoke wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have no problem helping carpenders, but what about Alchs, i mean honestly, what do we have to do.  You made all furniture be player bought, i would recomend the same for alch craftables, but it wont help.  Tailors and Woodworkers have kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] items that go in activatable slots, Provs have food, what do alchs have, potions and poisons that work for 1/30 of the time, and 1/100 as well.........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Give Alchs something that we can make and i dont know, actually SELLS.  Our only finnished product is essences, and when their are 1000 times more pages of adept 1s for 1/10 the price of makeing an app 4, is this a viable product?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you fix one class per update should i be expecting my fix this year?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you got rid of interdependency you should have gotten rid of alchemest, but no here i am, watching other classes make thier imbuned items and selling them for 30-50gp while i barely sell an extract everyone has a guy in their guild that sells em at cost.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can we get something that sells to the masses?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When the expansion comes out, if you increase the tradeskill lvl cap to 60 will i get more Poisons that noone wants, more Potions that noone needs, or more Essences that wont sell?   I just want to get prepared for yet another let down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1.  WW's don't have "kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]" stuff for the activateable slots.    The alchemist finished products which you conveniently ignored, (i.e. potions and poisons) are far superior to the laughable totems.  I've used alchemist crafted poisons.  Still do, when I hunt, in fact.  I'm a woodworker, and even *I* don't use our totems.  They're completely frills.</P> <P>2.  I think you hit the nail on the head here:  "Everyone has a guy in their guild".  The single greatest problem with alchemists is they are super SUPER saturated, because their USED to be a massive demand for them, and now demand has been reduced to around what it is for any other class.  I'd imagine an alchemist on a new server is probably doing just fine.<BR></P>

[BloodSmo]

<DIV><BR><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MaenaBowyer wrote:<BR><BR> <P>1.  WW's don't have "kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]" stuff for the activateable slots.    The alchemist finished products which you conveniently ignored, (i.e. potions and poisons) are far superior to the laughable totems.  I've used alchemist crafted poisons.  Still do, when I hunt, in fact.  I'm a woodworker, and even *I* don't use our totems.  They're completely frills.</P> <P>2.  I think you hit the nail on the head here:  "Everyone has a guy in their guild".  The single greatest problem with alchemists is they are super SUPER saturated, because their USED to be a massive demand for them, and now demand has been reduced to around what it is for any other class.  I'd imagine an alchemist on a new server is probably doing just fine.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>1. stop my the alch forums and see how many posts have to do with potions and poisons not sellign becase of thier lack of efectivness, you buy them, great, 1 guy.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  Alchs are no more saturated than provisioners yet i see pages of food on the market and 1/2 page of extracts.......<BR></DIV>

[Syanis]

<P>Enough already with the insistent whining of Alchs.</P> <P>Alchs make Potions, Poisons, Fighter skills app 4 and adept 3, they make extracts for imbu'd items. Players buy Poisons, alot of predator / rogue types buy player poison and alot of it. Fighters cover more then 30% between 4 class types of the games population. Alchemists provide skills for those fighters. Potions sell, not in a heavy quantity maybe but a few do buy. Try making some and throwing on broker, try advertising some. I doubt you've even TRIED to sell potions and just assume cause someone else said so they don't sell period. Extracts, alchemists make extracts that EVERY crafter needs who wish's to imbu anything and ONLy alchemists make those.</P> <P>Far as I see it alchemists are still far better then most crafters out there. The real issue is there are ALOT more alchemists (same for provisioners) as any other crafters. Thus the competition is that much harder and most people simply have a guildmate crafter do their needed crafting for them. </P> <P>If alchemists were so hurting why are their nearly double the alchs then any other crafter but provisioner. In some cases alchemists are triple the numbers of some other craft class's. Stop whining because you chose a TS class that was way to powerful and many others did alchs for the same reason. Now your stuck with being an alch because you followed the FOTM (Flavor of the month). Deal with it and stop whining.</P>

[Kizee]

<P>What Syanis said.</P> <P>You have plenty of things to make and sell. Get over it.<BR></P>

[BlackHa]

<P>When I made my main character (Assassin), I thought alchemist would be the perfect fit. At first, I was extremely dissapointed. But with recent upgrades and fixes to poisons, I am more than satisfied. I have discovered the benefit of potions as well. They may not sell, but I sure like them for my own personal adventuring benefit.</P> <P>Many adventurers took up provisioner for one reason....to feed themselves. I look at my alchemist in the same light. I never expected to make a huge profit from the class (and believe it or not...I never did). I could count on one hand the number of WORTs I have sold including the early dependancy phase of the game.</P> <P>I can understand why many alchemists are unhappy, but I am not one of them. I finally can make poisons my assassin can use! I also believe that there are a few potions that are the best kept secret of the game.</P> <P> </P>

[BloodSmo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>What Syanis said.</P> <P>You have plenty of things to make and sell. Get over it.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This comming from a provisioner.....</P> <P> </P> <P>Your statment is almost correct, we have things to make, but none of them sell. I would be happy with one recipie if its product sold.</P> <P>Let me list the problesm that i have already stated becase apparently you dont read all the posts....</P> <P>1.  Essences - same problem as sages, adept 1 drops are to frequent and thus the market is flooded, who would buy an app 4 when adept 1s are better and cheaper in most cases.</P> <P>2. Potions - To hard to switch in and out of an activatable slot, many of the rare and high end ones still ahve the same procs, time limits, and charges, only bought for guild events for the extra edge, the high end ones are not worth the price for most players, also most guilds have an alch that can amke them potions for the few instances they need them for cost, so where does sellign to the masses of players come in?</P> <P>3. Poisons - same problem as potions.....</P> <P>4.  Extracts - Does not sell to anyone but crafters and most crafters have a friend that can make them so again what is the point of makeing these if  98% of people dont need them and the remaining 2% have a guild alch that can make them for cost.</P> <P>Why does every other class get items that sell for 20-50gp+?</P> <P>I would like ot know if the game was made without interdependecy would alchemest even exist as a class choice.....</P> <P>I noticed how every single perosn who responded negativly in this thread was not an alchemest......how would you have any idea what is wrong with a class if you dont play the class?</P> <P> </P>

[Rijacki]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>BloodSmoke wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Kizee wrote: <p>What Syanis said.</p> <p>You have plenty of things to make and sell. Get over it.</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>This comming from a provisioner.....</p> <p>Your statment is almost correct, we have things to make, but none of them sell. I would be happy with one recipie if its product sold.</p> <p>Let me list the problesm that i have already stated becase apparently you dont read all the posts....</p> <p>1.  Essences - same problem as sages, adept 1 drops are to frequent and thus the market is flooded, who would buy an app 4 when adept 1s are better and cheaper in most cases.</p> <p>2. Potions - To hard to switch in and out of an activatable slot, many of the rare and high end ones still ahve the same procs, time limits, and charges, only bought for guild events for the extra edge, the high end ones are not worth the price for most players, also most guilds have an alch that can amke them potions for the few instances they need them for cost, so where does sellign to the masses of players come in?</p> <p>3. Poisons - same problem as potions.....</p> <p>4.  Extracts - Does not sell to anyone but crafters and most crafters have a friend that can make them so again what is the point of makeing these if  98% of people dont need them and the remaining 2% have a guild alch that can make them for cost.</p> <p>Why does every other class get items that sell for 20-50gp+?</p> <p>I would like ot know if the game was made without interdependecy would alchemest even exist as a class choice.....</p> <p>I noticed how every single perosn who responded negativly in this thread was not an alchemest......how would you have any idea what is wrong with a class if you dont play the class? </p> <hr></blockquote></span><span>I am an alchemist.  In fact I am a level 50 alchemist and have been for a while.  Potions are not "perfect" but the biggest negatives about them are the alchemists who perpetually diss them but have never actually tried any.  Potions -are- a pain to use if you need to swap them in and out during battle and potions -do- compete with hex dolls for the activatable slot (so do totems).  Since the dolls give static stats, they are deemed as more important for the slot.  I sincerely doubt that even 10% of the people who have a hex doll (I have one each on 2 characters) use them to activate the debuff.  I -do- use potions, even in combat situations and even when I might need to switch them around for better effect.  Oh.. and the 30 min stat potions are as difficult to use as the stat buff from an imbued ring which them will be, in many cases, swapped out for a ring with better stats.  The ring buff lasts 24 min. Poisons.... -some- are still broken in that their damage does not match their description because the quicky fix to making them proc again was to simply copy over from the ones which were working.  This affect 2 damage types per tier ( 4 poisons per tier, common and rare).  ONE T5 poison is still completely and utterly borked since the recipe is producing a stat buff potion (one that already exists) instead of the poison it should be.  Since it is one of the 2 types effected by the other problem, that doesn't raise the count on the number of broken.  So... broken... 10 total across all teirs.  Not broken... across the tiers about 35 damage (3 damage types which have rare and common with at least one additional rare "extreme" or special damage) and about 35 debuff (I think there are 7 debuffs, or 8... 3 common and the rest rare, if I remember rightly).  So... around 70 fully working to 10 broken. Potions and poisons DO share one really really really really annoying and game-breaking bug.  They once again both "refill" if you cross zone or log out (not die) before you run out.  This means they have endless charges like rings.  Because of this, I am considering raising my very reasonable prices.  I have had mine priced based on the should-be-fact that they have a limited life and are consumed, like food.  Since one can use them over and over and over perpetually only changing them at the tier, they should be priced like the static or perm use items, i.e. rings, armor, weapons, spells, essences, etc. Extracts... yes, most crafters have a pocket alchemist from the days they were "dealing with" interdependancies.  This means that the extract market is slim.  Yes, it is annoying that alchemists get blamed for the high price of imbued when the price of an identical imbued item to a non-imbued will be a price difference of 10g in T4 even when the price of T4 extacts on the broker (which is usually a higher price than from a crafter directly) is 4g or less.  Imbuing is only one step, from the finished item.... Essences... yes, it SUCKS that adept 1s drop like flies on a hot summer day.  This problem also effects sages and jewelers who make runes.  Someone in another thread suggested that the NPC buy price on adepts should be a lot higher than it is now to encourage them to be priced higher on the broker to give a margin of profit to the appIVs.  There are, however, some essences (and I am sure spells and runes) which don't drop or super super super rarely drop as adepts.  I have tracked the essences and noted them... and yes, have seen the dwindling number (down to 15 or less in T5... out of over 90 essences). The one thing many crafters miss is that what gets you experience might not always get you money.  The other thing... alchemy is not an insta money maker.  Personally, I am very glad it's not.  Most of the "get rich quick"  and "get to 50 now now now" alchemists are gone.  Those of us who looked to alchemy for RP reasons or because they wanted to make potions and poisons or whatever chemical compounds -are- finding ways to make money with alchemy, just not hand over fist. My stock has gotten badly depleted in the past few days because of RL stuff cutting into game time.  But... I generally sell 30-50g a day.  Admittedly, now, out of that, 10-30g is profit, but the balance sheet is on the green side. I'm on Antonia Bayle. Is alchemy "broken"? not really. Is alchemy "easy" or  "easy money"? not by a long shot. Are there things about alchemy products that could use improvements? oh heck yeah. Are there things wrong or buggy with alchemy? oh heck yeah (10 broken poisons, refilling poisons and potions, adept 1s flooding the broker, etc) Am I a fan boi? Not on your life.  I do look for and find the postive things, but I also see what's wrong and will loudly complain about it.  Just look at my activity in the alchemist forum *grin*</span><span></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Rijacki on <span class=date_text>05-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:51 PM</span>

[Amise]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<p>What Syanis said.</p> <p>You have plenty of things to make and sell. Get over it.</p> <div></div><hr></blockquote>Alchemists have plenty of things to make and sell but putting something up for sale does not mean anyone is going to buy it.   You're lucky that provisioners don't have that issue, but some tradeskillers still do.    IMO things are a lot better than they were following the removal of interdependancy but a few more adjustments are needed.  Still a lot of broken poisons and such.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Amise on <span class=date_text>05-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:02 PM</span>

[OperationsX]

Although there still needs to be work done, alchemists , sages and unfortunately even though they dont need it jewelers will get a boost from this new spell balance improvements. Our rare combines will ACTUALLY have a great demand! Yes they are improving adept III's. So there's looking up, still doesn't fix the demand for your main products you make but hey

[strath]

<P>Market for alchemists----what potions and poisons that do work, RARE  fighter spells, and extracts.Im an armorer i look for chemists all the time, im a shadowknight to so again...i look for a chemist for my adept three</P> <P> </P> <P>Market for sages---RARE spells for priest and mage classes.</P> <P> </P> <P>As an armorer, i get to make armor, thats it , armor, there i said it.i get to make two types of armor, chain and plate.Tho going back to T2, i get to play weaponsmith, tailor and armorer, thers quite a bit of money in the lower tiers...i know i spend a ton on alts.</P> <P> </P>

[DonSavan]

<P>I'm an Alchy, and though I'd like a little love....potion bags for the activatable slot comes to mind....and some tweaking to make some of the potions a little more worthwhile...II agree that sages should  get some lovin too, and I hope your guys time is soon.</P>

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amise wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>What Syanis said.</P> <P>You have plenty of things to make and sell. Get over it.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Alchemists have plenty of things to make and sell but putting something up for sale does not mean anyone is going to buy it.   You're lucky that provisioners don't have that issue, but some tradeskillers still do.    IMO things are a lot better than they were following the removal of interdependancy but a few more adjustments are needed.  Still a lot of broken poisons and such.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <P>Message Edited by Amise on <SPAN class=date_text>05-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:02 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Provisioners don't have that issue? I put T5 3 hour 22 min drink on vender that I cant even soll for 75-80 silver a drink. It isn't even worth my time to spend hours harvesting raws and the 1.5-2 hours staring at the stove making 1 stack of drink. I make more money adventuring.</P> <P>At least alchemists have different items they can sell poisons (which I buy alot of), potions, can make spell upgrades, make extracts for imbued stuff (I wish I could charge 5g for 1 min worth of work).</P> <P>Granted alchemists arn't the cash cows they were before but you still have it pretty good IMO.</P>

[Lig]

<P>You do make a product that everyone who know's anything about casters wants. Power regen potions that you can use in combat. I buy them like hot cakes and I use them up fast. I would say I use at least 2 a week. The high end potions regen somewhere around 25 power per tick every 6 seconds for 30 seconds at lvl 45. Something like that anyways. Advertise your goods. That's how I found out about them. An alch came and showed them to me. In a big fight... these make a HUGE difference. I use them all the time.</P> <P> </P> <P>As for Sages... we have 2 sages on Nek whom everyone EVERYONE uses. They charge very reasonable prices and we can get any spells we want from them.</P> <P>Yes Adepts drop... but only for certain spells. There are spells out there that I don't think adepts even drop for.</P> <P>Know your market and ADVERTISE people. Also charge reasonable prices and you can make good money.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote: <blockquote> <hr></blockquote><p>Provisioners don't have that issue? I put T5 3 hour 22 min drink on vender that I cant even soll for 75-80 silver a drink. It isn't even worth my time to spend hours harvesting raws and the 1.5-2 hours staring at the stove making 1 stack of drink. I make more money adventuring.</p><hr></blockquote> Ironically, on AB, T3 drinks and food is more expensive and with a greater profit margin than T5.  T5s are even sold for less than T4.  Why?  Because there is a tendancy for people to make stuff only for which they get experience and there are a lot more provisioners at or approaching 50 than there are in their 20s. Profit and experience do not always exist in the same item.  If you want to make money, you might well need to make sellables at a lower tier.</span><div></div>

[MaenaBowy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BloodSmoke wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> </DIV> <DIV>1. stop my the alch forums and see how many posts have to do with potions and poisons not sellign becase of thier lack of efectivness, you buy them, great, 1 guy.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  Alchs are no more saturated than provisioners yet i see pages of food on the market and 1/2 page of extracts.......<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1.  Most scouts buy 'em.</P> <P>2.  Saturated isn't based around just count.  It has to do with count vs. demand.  Demand for Alchemists product is now probably about in-line with woodworkers, armorers, tailrs, etc.  (i.e. not provisioners).  HOWEVER, There are as many alchemists as Tailors, carpenters and Weaponsmiths COMBINED.  I.e. there is FAR and away more alchemist than there is demand for.  i.e. they're supersaturated.<BR></P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <P>1.  Essences - same problem as sages, adept 1 drops are to frequent and thus the market is flooded, who would buy an app 4 when adept 1s are better and cheaper in most cases.</P> <P>2. Potions - To hard to switch in and out of an activatable slot, many of the rare and high end ones still ahve the same procs, time limits, and charges, only bought for guild events for the extra edge, the high end ones are not worth the price for most players, also most guilds have an alch that can amke them potions for the few instances they need them for cost, so where does sellign to the masses of players come in?</P> <P>3. Poisons - same problem as potions.....</P> <P>4.  Extracts - Does not sell to anyone but crafters and most crafters have a friend that can make them so again what is the point of makeing these if  98% of people dont need them and the remaining 2% have a guild alch that can make them for cost.</P> <P>Why does every other class get items that sell for 20-50gp+?</P> <P>I would like ot know if the game was made without interdependecy would alchemest even exist as a class choice.....</P> <P>I noticed how every single perosn who responded negativly in this thread was not an alchemest......how would you have any idea what is wrong with a class if you dont play the class?</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1. Agreed.</P> <P>2.  "most guilds have an alch that can amke them potions for the few instances they need them for cost"  i.e. they're supersaturated.</P> <P>3. Huh?  Poisons you use once every 12 hours or 200 procs.  No problem switching them in to use whatsoever.  Who CARES if a lot of them have the same effect?  Only one is "active" anyways.  Poisons don't have ANY of the same problems as potions, other than... Yep.  Alchemists are supersaturated.<BR></P> <DIV>4.  Again.  The problem you cite is that everybody has an alch friend who makes 'em for cheap... guess what... Yep.  Alchemists are supersaturated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everything you say seems to boil down to the same problem.  Too many alchemist for a normal amount of demand.</DIV>

[Gladesto]

Here is some thing postive, an im a alchie....Ive been selling, every thing of late...My spells do sell...Mind you not the rate that a provisioner sells food, but they do sell...Im making a avarage of 2 gold a night....Ive been giving, my potions away...Just so people can test them...When they come back, an want more...Ill tell them, ill sell you some for 20 silver each...To few people, realise how effective potions can be...Like we have mana per second potions for casters, trust me they work very well...Specially againts mobs....Now we have tank potions also...We also have some for rogues...My suggestion is do the same for alchies you did for crafters who make furniture....Take poisons off the market...So players are forced, to buy our poisons....Than again there will be some players...Who will mark up the poisons.....This is wrong though....Thats not what i will do...Ill keep my poisons reasonable...Sell them around 30 silver each, which in my book is cheap....

[OperationsX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amise wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>What Syanis said.</P> <P>You have plenty of things to make and sell. Get over it.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Alchemists have plenty of things to make and sell but putting something up for sale does not mean anyone is going to buy it.   You're lucky that provisioners don't have that issue, but some tradeskillers still do.    IMO things are a lot better than they were following the removal of interdependancy but a few more adjustments are needed.  Still a lot of broken poisons and such.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <P>Message Edited by Amise on <SPAN class=date_text>05-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:02 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Provisioners don't have that issue? I put T5 3 hour 22 min drink on vender that I cant even soll for 75-80 silver a drink. It isn't even worth my time to spend hours harvesting raws and the 1.5-2 hours staring at the stove making 1 stack of drink. I make more money adventuring.</P> <P>At least alchemists have different items they can sell poisons (which I buy alot of), potions, can make spell upgrades, make extracts for imbued stuff (I wish I could charge 5g for 1 min worth of work).</P> <P>Granted alchemists arn't the cash cows they were before but you still have it pretty good IMO.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You dont get it, it all comes down to demand, not how much you can sell the product for. Sure I can have tons of adept III's and app4's for sale, pages and pages at good stable prices. It could look mighty uber l33t with my 10p worth of product for sale..but in reality  it can sit there all day long with maybe 1 sale. Do provisioners do the same? I think not...if your not selling a stack of something a day there's something wrong with you. Provisioners on my server don't dare go LFW, they will get spammed...they dont need to, all they do is put the product on the market...heck 100% of their product now that food is great to buy. </P> <P>Everyone is going to need drink and food, everytime, everywhere, forever...</P> <P>Have a nice day </P> <P>Message Edited by OperationsX on <SPAN class=date_text>05-13-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:02 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by OperationsX on <span class=date_text>05-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:03 PM</span>

[Blackdog183]

<P>Okay, Im a level 47 alchemist, this is coming from firsthand experience, and I will gladly provide anyone with logs etc if you want to see them.  </P> <P>1. Essense- Dont sell for crap as the market is saturated with adept 1 drops.  I make tier t5 essense(infact Ive have a 24 slot box devoted to holding just t5 essense) and sell them at 1 gold per, this is LESS than the 60% I can make off that ink doing a tradeskill writ, and guess what folks, they DO NOT SELL.</P> <P>2. Potions- Are crap, im an endgame alchemist, and I honest to god dont waste my friggen time on them anymore, I have put 1 of every single type of t5 potion on the broker at again LESS than the 60% I can get using them for writs, and nada, they just didnt sell because beilive it or not THEY SUCK.  Low as hell duration, crappy effects, and honestly just arent cost effective for the user.</P> <P>3. Poisens- See potion.  I even put up a set of t5 RARE(thats right as in a rare loam) poisens on the broker, guess what, THEY DIDNT SELL.  Why do you ask, cause they SUCK.  Once again, I sell them at less than the 60% mark, and NADA.</P> <P>So before you go and say jack sh*t about alchemist have sellable products, send me a damned tell on Toxx, I will gladly set you straight.  I dont even use the friggen LFW tag, cause all I get is 100 tells from folks wanting Lum extracts all damned day, and honestly those are a waste of my fricken time for the penuts amount people wanna pay for em.  Sorry, but I see crafters charging 20-30 gold to imbue a t5 item, and that same crafter then [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] at me that I shouldnt charge him any more than fuel cost for the extract, I laugh at them and tell em where to stick that tooth.</P> <P>Guess what ladies and gents, I can get 20 gold out of a stack of t5 ink from doing writs, not to mention im the #1 crafter in my society with over 500 members, so why in the crap would I put these items on the broker for less than I can make off a writ, simple answer is I wont.</P> <P>So HELL YES I say alcemist need some love.  They recently doubled the number of procs per application on our poisens(and broke em in the process), so now 1 vial of crafter made poisen has 1400 procs, where merchant bought has 500, guess what, THEY STILL DONT SELL!!!!  So, now we have somewhat of a paradox dont we, see provisioners complained that vendor food was ruining their buisness(when in reality it was keeping you bloodsuckers in check, but thats another argument), carpernters where complaining that merchant furniture was killining their buisness(dont know, im not a furniture kinda guy).  In BOTH cases the devs catered to your hurt lil bums and nerfed the [Removed for Content] outta the merchants, but still to this day merchant poisen is as good as crafted, it just has less charges, well whoopti friggen do!</P> <P>So to SoE I say for the 100th time, especially to you frizz, pull ur head outta ur bum and fix my class already, you are the ones that beat us senseless with the nerf bat(even though we needed it) and havent done a DAMNED thing to make it right.</P>

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amise wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>What Syanis said.</P> <P>You have plenty of things to make and sell. Get over it.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Alchemists have plenty of things to make and sell but putting something up for sale does not mean anyone is going to buy it.   You're lucky that provisioners don't have that issue, but some tradeskillers still do.    IMO things are a lot better than they were following the removal of interdependancy but a few more adjustments are needed.  Still a lot of broken poisons and such.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <P>Message Edited by Amise on <SPAN class=date_text>05-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:02 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Provisioners don't have that issue? I put T5 3 hour 22 min drink on vender that I cant even soll for 75-80 silver a drink. It isn't even worth my time to spend hours harvesting raws and the 1.5-2 hours staring at the stove making 1 stack of drink. I make more money adventuring.</P> <P>At least alchemists have different items they can sell poisons (which I buy alot of), potions, can make spell upgrades, make extracts for imbued stuff (I wish I could charge 5g for 1 min worth of work).</P> <P>Granted alchemists arn't the cash cows they were before but you still have it pretty good IMO.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You dont get it, it all comes down to demand, not how much you can sell the product for. Sure I can have tons of adept III's and app4's for sale, pages and pages at good stable prices. It could look mighty uber l33t with my 10p worth of product for sale..but in reality  it can sit there all day long with maybe 1 sale. Do provisioners do the same? I think not...if your not selling a stack of something a day there's something wrong with you. Provisioners on my server don't dare go LFW, they will get spammed...they dont need to, all they do is put the product on the market...heck 100% of their product now that food is great to buy. </P> <P>Everyone is going to need drink and food, everytime, everywhere, forever...</P> <P>Have a nice day </P> <P>Message Edited by OperationsX on <SPAN class=date_text>05-13-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:02 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by OperationsX on <SPAN class=date_text>05-13-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:03 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I do get it.</P> <P>I am glad that provisioners on your server can sell stuff fast because I can't on Befallen. :p The market is so saturated with botters that it isn't worth my time to harvest and make drink. I can get more cash in less time adventuring.</P> <P>BTW.. if there is so many alchemists around looking for work then why can I never find one that wants to convert some rares into inks for me? The only one I could find wanted 8 gold to convert 2 opals into inks for me. I wish provisioners could make a quick 8 gold for 30 secs of work.<BR></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Kizee on <span class=date_text>05-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:36 AM</span>

[OperationsX]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> OperationsX wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Amise wrote:<BR> <SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kizee wrote:<BR> <P>What Syanis said.</P> <P>You have plenty of things to make and sell. Get over it.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Alchemists have plenty of things to make and sell but putting something up for sale does not mean anyone is going to buy it.   You're lucky that provisioners don't have that issue, but some tradeskillers still do.    IMO things are a lot better than they were following the removal of interdependancy but a few more adjustments are needed.  Still a lot of broken poisons and such.<BR></SPAN> <BR> <P>Message Edited by Amise on <SPAN class=date_text>05-12-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:02 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Provisioners don't have that issue? I put T5 3 hour 22 min drink on vender that I cant even soll for 75-80 silver a drink. It isn't even worth my time to spend hours harvesting raws and the 1.5-2 hours staring at the stove making 1 stack of drink. I make more money adventuring.</P> <P>At least alchemists have different items they can sell poisons (which I buy alot of), potions, can make spell upgrades, make extracts for imbued stuff (I wish I could charge 5g for 1 min worth of work).</P> <P>Granted alchemists arn't the cash cows they were before but you still have it pretty good IMO.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You dont get it, it all comes down to demand, not how much you can sell the product for. Sure I can have tons of adept III's and app4's for sale, pages and pages at good stable prices. It could look mighty uber l33t with my 10p worth of product for sale..but in reality  it can sit there all day long with maybe 1 sale. Do provisioners do the same? I think not...if your not selling a stack of something a day there's something wrong with you. Provisioners on my server don't dare go LFW, they will get spammed...they dont need to, all they do is put the product on the market...heck 100% of their product now that food is great to buy. </P> <P>Everyone is going to need drink and food, everytime, everywhere, forever...</P> <P>Have a nice day </P> <P>Message Edited by OperationsX on <SPAN class=date_text>05-13-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:02 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by OperationsX on <SPAN class=date_text>05-13-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:03 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I do get it.</P> <P>I am glad that provisioners on your server can sell stuff fast because I can't on Befallen. :p The market is so saturated with botters that it isn't worth my time to harvest and make drink. I can get more cash in less time adventuring.</P> <P>BTW.. if there is so many alchemists around looking for work then why can I never find one that wants to convert some rares into inks for me? The only one I could find wanted 8 gold to convert 2 opals into inks for me. I wish provisioners could make a quick 8 gold for 30 secs of work.<BR></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P> <P>Message Edited by Kizee on <SPAN class=date_text>05-14-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:36 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Well to be fair this arguement or rather discussion about demand excludes botters. Botters would ruin ANY kind of market.

[Lathro]

" Im going to throw a suggestion out: --Roll alchemists and sages into one subclass." Been saying the same thing since they took away interdependency

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kizee wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <p>BTW.. if there is so many alchemists around looking for work then why can I never find one that wants to convert some rares into inks for me? The only one I could find wanted 8 gold to convert 2 opals into inks for me. I wish provisioners could make a quick 8 gold for 30 secs of work.</p> <div></div> <p><span class="time_text"></span></p> <hr></blockquote> While I charge significantly less than 8g for 2 opals into woad ink, it is considerably more than "30 sec of work". 1. Refine the gem into a reagent and loam using 2 oil and 2 fuel     If you don't have that oil on hand, you need to make it     If you want to make the loam into glass or vials for potions or poisons, it needs to be pristine 2. Convert the reagent into dye using 2 wash and 2 fuel     If you don't have the wash on hand, you need to make it 3. Convert the dye into ink using 2 wash and 5 fuel So... a minimum of 3 combines IF you have oil and wash on hand.  If not, then 5 to 6 combines (6 if your wash is not pristine). Opals... the fuel to make woad ink is now a bit under 3s each.  9 fuel for everything but WROTs.  Add 2 fuel for the WROTS.  Add additional for the tussah root (1-2s each combine) or just round the fuel up to 3s and count 5 combines, the minimum needed if all are pristine.  11 x 3s = 33s and considerably more than "30 sec". How much do you, as provisioner, sell your most complex T4 drink for?  How much does -your- fuel cost?  No drink uses 11 fuels, even if you do add up all the subs.</span><div></div>

[MullenSkywatcher]

I wouldn't waste time trying to figure out which artisan was broken more, sage or alchemist, since both are obviously broken badly.  My solution would be to have alchemists and sages have the ability to make adept2 spells without a rare, although I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to handle the problems at adept3 that this would cause.  Maybe have the rare component make an adept4 instead?  This would also require that the spell lines be adjusted so that they scale appropriately, since many now do not. I like what they have done with imbued items for some of the artisans, and hope a creative set of recipies comes over to the scholar tree as well. <div></div>

[Gladesto]

<P>Nothing will be done about it...Im a 37 alchie an we have been complaining, since we got nurfed...Soe simply, once again does not care....Some of my potions, how ever do sell....Devout some poisons...These are few though, that ive had to give away, for friends to try...Now there selling, not at a good rate at a 30 silver rate...</P> <P>Now if soe took there, head out of there butt....Maybe put a three hour timer, on some of the potiosn...Devout an some tank potions....Perhaps players, would buy them and use them...They also need, to act like food though.....Why should provisioners, corner the market? Come on soe wake up...There are other crafters, out here....Give us some love also.....</P>

[Blackdog183]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MullenSkywatcher wrote:<BR>I wouldn't waste time trying to figure out which artisan was broken more, sage or alchemist, since both are obviously broken badly.  My solution would be to have alchemists and sages have the ability to make adept2 spells without a rare, although I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to handle the problems at adept3 that this would cause.  Maybe have the rare component make an adept4 instead?  This would also require that the spell lines be adjusted so that they scale appropriately, since many now do not.<BR><BR>I like what they have done with imbued items for some of the artisans, and hope a creative set of recipies comes over to the scholar tree as well.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Solid Idea, Ive seen it suggested before, many many times.  Just an add on to that, why not use the extracts as the regeant needed for an ad2 spell or essense?  This would make ad3's still better, but at least we could compete with the adept 1's that drop like water.  It would also serve to give the alchey community someting viable out of these extracts, rather than be the sub-[Removed for Content] to the crafters charging 50 gold to imbue a damned item.

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>MullenSkywatcher wrote:I wouldn't waste time trying to figure out which artisan was broken more, sage or alchemist, since both are obviously broken badly.  My solution would be to have alchemists and sages have the ability to make adept2 spells without a rare, although I'm scratching my head trying to figure out how to handle the problems at adept3 that this would cause.  Maybe have the rare component make an adept4 instead?  This would also require that the spell lines be adjusted so that they scale appropriately, since many now do not. I like what they have done with imbued items for some of the artisans, and hope a creative set of recipies comes over to the scholar tree as well. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Sages are "broken" in so much that their scrolls "compete" with adept 1 drops and they have no other finished product.  They are the ONLY class which has this problem. Alchemists... the biggest problem with the poisons and potions is the number of indivuduals who have most likely NEVER used them constantly complaining every possible place they can how horrible they are.  The second biggest problem is those, generally the same ones, who want mega-overpowering effects on potions to consider them even "slightly" decent.  Potions are useful when used in the right situations.  Crafted poisons DO have a higher damage and more procs per dose than NPC.  The rares of both have even more powerful effects.  Are potions and poisons without flaw? heck no. 20 poisons (10 common and 10 rare, out of around 85 poisons total) are broken in so much that they currently do not match their short description for damage type, but they do now proc (with one of those 20 even pretending to not be a poison at all).  I begged and pleaded for others to do some comparison testing of poisons including the NPC and rares because I am a wizard (and paladin).  I have begged for people to give at least examine data on the potions (by those over the min skill for each).  But... it took me making a ranger-to-be (currently level 16) to begin getting any comparison data.  Shader has also provided some, now.  Even my offers to supply all of the poisons on my server and even pay in-game money to a tester has fallen on deaf ears (or someone says they will and then doesn't even bother to pick up the first group of poisons from me).  Since I usually am playing with my boyfriend and he wants to play our paladins, my ranger-to-be isn't leveling very fast. Shader and I have been intermittently working on a new page for alchemy.  I need to move it to a more stable server and probably move it to a permenent (i.e. pay money for) host in a co-lo facility since I will be moving some time next month and have no clue when I will have a place to move let alone if I will be able to set up a webserver again (or even have internet access).  But, yeah, we need to get it done to have something to point at even if a lot of the data isn't compiled yet.</span><div></div>

[Gladesto]

<DIV>All we want is our stuff to be fair...Why should provisioners, be the olny one to sell items a gold a pop...You must be a provisioner to talk like that..</DIV>

[hahn_ba]

<DIV>App4 + Extract = Adept 1 or 2???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adept3 + Extract = Adept 4???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-----------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let's analyze what this would do:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Drive down the market for Adept I's even further, providing more trouble for the lazy alchemist/sage/jeweler, but more profit for the savvy scholar.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Boost Alchemist demand for extract production.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Drop the prices for Adept 3's... this also drops the prices for Adept4's, and Master I's. While not making them "readily available to all" it helps circulate those Master I's that sit on the broker for weeks upon end in the 3pp+ range.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also - a Sage suggestion:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) New craftable item. Activatable scrolls that provide temporary buffs. These buffs would be long duration and single charge. (30 min crude, 1 hr shaped, 2 hr normal, 3 hr pristine)</DIV> <DIV>  - Tomes of Minor, Lesser, Normal, Greater, Masterful :</DIV> <DIV>     - Martial Knowledge - +piercing, slashing, crushing per tier.</DIV> <DIV>     - Combat Knowledge -  +50 crushing resistance, piercing resistance, slashing resistance, +5 avoidance per tier.</DIV> <DIV>     - Mysticism - +50 resists per tier.</DIV> <DIV>     - Healing - +5 hp regen out of combat / 2 hp regen in combat per tier</DIV> <DIV>     - Mental Clarity - +5 power regen out of combat / 2 pow regen in combat per tier.</DIV> <DIV>     -  Tactics - 5% combat proc - 25 dmg per tier, resistance based.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Normal components involve paper, ink, extract, and depending on the Tome, a related item that's "essence" is used to make the scroll.</DIV> <DIV>  - ex. Tome of Lesser Martial Knowledge</DIV> <DIV>     - Essence of War</DIV> <DIV>       - 1 glowing extract</DIV> <DIV>       - 1 forged dagger</DIV> <DIV>       - 1 forged mace</DIV> <DIV>       - 1 forged sword</DIV> <DIV>       - 3 brown coal</DIV> <DIV>     - 3 Cailun Paper</DIV> <DIV>     - 1 Tanned Binding</DIV> <DIV>     - 2 carbon ink</DIV> <DIV>     - 5 incense (whatever the t2 incense is)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stuff like that!</DIV> <P>Message Edited by hahn_bard on <SPAN class=date_text>05-17-2005</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:57 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by hahn_bard on <span class=date_text>05-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:58 AM</span>

[Xecr]

<blockquote><hr>Ligur1 wrote:<P>As for Sages... we have 2 sages on Nek whom everyone EVERYONE uses. They charge very reasonable prices and we can get any spells we want from them.</P> <P>Yes Adepts drop... but only for certain spells. There are spells out there that I don't think adepts even drop for.</P> <P>Know your market and ADVERTISE people. Also charge reasonable prices and you can make good money.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><hr></blockquote>I have to agree here. Sages can turn a fair profit by selling just App4 spells. The trick is knowing which App4's to produce and sell.Yes, some spells have Adept 1 versions dropping like mad and flooding the market, but there are also other spells, many more spells actually, where the Adept 1's don't drop at all, or very rarely.I'm not saying Sages are fine the way they are. I do think they need some lovin', but at the same time, they are not totally useless either.Xec

[Ujina]

When alchemist talk about fixing potions you should take a look at these potions. As an alchemist i never examined closely these potions untils I hit tier4. I decided to craft a Lesser healing potion for my Swashbuckler ( he is lvl 36 ) And you know how much hp it heals ? Around 80 hp ! When i saw that, I checked my Swash total HP : 1663. Do you see the problem ? who wants to buy potions like that, you have to be lvl 30 minimum to use them and they are almost useless. Others look kinda cool but it's hard to know the impact of +70 in crushing mitigation for example. <div></div>

[Culann Heartsto]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MaenaBowyer wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BloodSmoke wrote:<BR> <DIV>I have no problem helping carpenders, but what about Alchs, i mean honestly, what do we have to do.  You made all furniture be player bought, i would recomend the same for alch craftables, but it wont help.  Tailors and Woodworkers have kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] items that go in activatable slots, Provs have food, what do alchs have, potions and poisons that work for 1/30 of the time, and 1/100 as well.........</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Give Alchs something that we can make and i dont know, actually SELLS.  Our only finnished product is essences, and when their are 1000 times more pages of adept 1s for 1/10 the price of makeing an app 4, is this a viable product?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you fix one class per update should i be expecting my fix this year? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When you got rid of interdependency you should have gotten rid of alchemest, but no here i am, watching other classes make thier imbuned items and selling them for 30-50gp while i barely sell an extract everyone has a guy in their guild that sells em at cost. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Can we get something that sells to the masses?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When the expansion comes out, if you increase the tradeskill lvl cap to 60 will i get more Poisons that noone wants, more Potions that noone needs, or more Essences that wont sell?   I just want to get prepared for yet another let down.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>1.  WW's don't have "kick [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]" stuff for the activateable slots.    The alchemist finished products which you conveniently ignored, (i.e. potions and poisons) are far superior to the laughable totems.  I've used alchemist crafted poisons.  Still do, when I hunt, in fact.  I'm a woodworker, and even *I* don't use our totems.  They're completely frills.</P> <P>2.  I think you hit the nail on the head here:  "Everyone has a guy in their guild".  The single greatest problem with alchemists is they are super SUPER saturated, because their USED to be a massive demand for them, and now demand has been reduced to around what it is for any other class.  I'd imagine an alchemist on a new server is probably doing just fine.<BR></P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>/sarcasm on..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yeah lemme tell ya..those Spirit of the Wolf Totems are completely useless..yup..no good there being able to get a speed buff that stacks on top of either your pre-order or Legendary J-Boots..totally worthless.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And let's not forget those Cameleon totems that make you invisible..I mean..c'mon..who wants to be invisible?  Just because you can use it to slip past mobs and sneak through places you might not could have otherwise..bah. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Then...let's not forget all those stupid power & HP regen style totems..totally crap there too..(shakes his head)...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/sarcasm off.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How sad..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Lumen]

<P>Ok there was waaay too many posts to read them all so please forgive me if this has already been said. </P> <P>Im a LVL50 Alch. I use my skills as a second to my upcomming woodworker. I also make spells for fighters but only in my guild. Why dont they give sages all the scrolls to be made. And make Alch poisons and potions usable. Stop using rare by products to make our [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] potions.... Im sick of trying to make potions and I only find one per 10 LVL's that I can make due to the rare loams. Let us use the loams for something else. Say adding glass to a wand or maybe a Ruby orb. At least we could sell the loam to the jeweler for a nice profit. And like I said make potions and poisons more effective and not rare.... </P> <P>I do not make anything but a few fighter abilities and even then I only make the adeptv 3's. Man I hope they fix us soon. </P>

[Gladesto]

Lum im in total agreement thre, though id like to save the tank spells...There the only, things actually sell for me...Well some potions sell but not every night....Im in agreement with taking the rare stuff out, for the potions....There not even that good, to be considered a rare....Know how often i got loam, to get a friend to make me glass...Maybe twice, even she told me the rare wasnt worth it...

[Xecr]

<blockquote><hr>Xecros wrote:<blockquote><hr>Ligur1 wrote:<P>As for Sages... we have 2 sages on Nek whom everyone EVERYONE uses. They charge very reasonable prices and we can get any spells we want from them.</P> <P>Yes Adepts drop... but only for certain spells. There are spells out there that I don't think adepts even drop for.</P> <P>Know your market and ADVERTISE people. Also charge reasonable prices and you can make good money.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P><hr></blockquote>I have to agree here. Sages can turn a fair profit by selling just App4 spells. The trick is knowing which App4's to produce and sell.Yes, some spells have Adept 1 versions dropping like mad and flooding the market, but there are also other spells, many more spells actually, where the Adept 1's don't drop at all, or very rarely.I'm not saying Sages are fine the way they are. I do think they need some lovin', but at the same time, they are not totally useless either.Xec<hr></blockquote>wow, one starred for expressing my opinion and not flaming anyone....someone needs to get a life....Xec

[FelixDomesticus]

<span><blockquote><hr>Syanis wrote:<div></div><p>If alchemists were so hurting why are their nearly double the alchs then any other crafter but provisioner. In some cases alchemists are triple the numbers of some other craft class's. Stop whining because you chose a TS class that was way to powerful and many others did alchs for the same reason. Now your stuck with being an alch because you followed the FOTM (Flavor of the month). Deal with it and stop whining.</p><hr></blockquote>Remember the time when you could not do all you needed for your class? Time when you had to BUY your WORTS? Lots of alchemists are from the time BEFORE the change. At that time alchemist could make money and became popular and provisioners were broken and therefore not so popular.</span><div></div>

[fmj]

<DIV>Patch changed this...</DIV><p>Message Edited by fmjim on <span class=date_text>06-15-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:47 AM</span>

[ipl]

<DIV>to OP -  Potions are very useful endgame. The rare-made potion add huge resists, could even mean the difference between success and failure on a raid. IMHO.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Who uses food anymore? Oh cool, i get +10 int with my new drink, big deal. Most of those stats are buffed up over 200 on raids as is, and it hardly effects your overall power pool.</DIV>

[Obsi]

<DIV>There are 2 perhaps 3 kind of potions usefull atm (at high lvl  am 50assassin/50alchie) :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> * Resist potions that add 400 or 600 to resists ( 400 to arcane, 600 noxious or 600 elemental)</DIV> <DIV> * Stat buff potions that add 23 to str&sta OR agi OR int&wis</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Both lasting 30 mins some people actually use em if the price is low = 3g or under ( remember plz its RARE 50 POTIONS )</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> * Pow regen potions : some (actually very few but still some) buy this pow regen potion that last 30Sec but regen in fight pow</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> And thats all. Damage shield potions are a joke and last 30 sec, hp regen same, hp pool and pow pool are just silly and heal potion getting the award of the best SoE joke.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Now for the poisons, being an assassin i dont consider them broke even if a guud half of em are not usefull, especially the rare ones (especially those with something like 30ish procs or 4ish procs - stiffle, haste debuff and co).</DIV> <DIV> Combo poison + debuff potions work just fine and i dont really expect any improvement for poisons ( ok perhaps raise the ones with 4ish procs ).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> I made a post on alchemist section already about how i think potions could be fixed and its easy :</DIV> <DIV> * heal potions : % based ( not a hp number ) with the greater rare one around 20-25% ( adjust the reuse timer to make em life saver once every 5 or 15 mins )</DIV> <DIV> * DS : raise the duration AND get diff duration on the diff DS ( greater DS should be shorter than low DS )</DIV> <DIV> * Hp pool and pow pool ... dunno but anyway i wouldnt use em</DIV> <DIV> * HoT and PoT ... raise timer to 5 min at the very least</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Potions are not something people would use all the time BUT raising the values would make people have some in their bags in case or pop em for raid encounters ... i think this is the true market for alchemist.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Obside</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Obside on <span class=date_text>05-23-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:45 AM</span>

[Rijacki]

My adventurer is now 32.  She's a paladin and has been actively using potions since T2.  In T3, potions were the "edge" that give my paladin and her pals, another paladin and a templar, the ability to tackle groups they really shouldn't even think about and/or to handle highly challenging adds at the very wrong time.  Most of the potions I use, granted, are rares, but I also use a few non-rares.  I've even used the damage shields to help, but only if, as the tank, I knew I was going to be hit by multiple targets.  I won't leave town, now, without my power regen potion, it makes that much of a difference. I have a new adventurer who is a level 16 ranger-to-be.  He's been using poisons so I can get some comparison stats.  The mez/stun potion for T2 -does- work (and I have heard the others do as well) because I have seen it with my own eyes.  There is also a marked difference between NPC bought, common, and rare.  The difference between NPC bought and common isn't as huge as the difference between common and rare.  Another alchemist, Shader, was running similar tests on T4 and found a marked difference there as well. Seeing the debuff and special effect (stun, stifle, stat reducers, etc) poisons work can seem to be subjective.  You don't have the stats of the mob displayed to you (not like in SWG), so you have to kinda infer the effect from how they behave.  With my level 16 ranger-to-be, it was easy to see that the mez/stun poison worked since he shot an arrow at range, the mez poison hit, and the thing he shot just stood there... at range... and let him plink more arrows at it and there were also damage messages from the damage poisons that hit (you can have a damage and a debuff poison applied at the same time and both can proc).  He even split a group pull using that potion.  No, it doesn't proc automatically (slightly lower percent chance to proc than a normal damage poison) and has fewer procs per dose, but the effect is pretty impressively huge when it does happen.  He also tried out the extreme damage potion (rare only) for his tier and it's damage was more than double a regular rare.  Again, those poisons have a more limited number of procs and a lower chance to hit, but they -do- make up for it in the damage delivered, something to apply right before hitting that big target. I sell, in broker boxes, potions and poisons for T3 to T5 and they do sell pretty decently.  I recently raised my prices on the rares because it's getting more expensive for me to obtain the loams.  My T5 rares are 4g with the common at 1g.  T4 rare at 1g 50s with common at 25s.  T3 rares are 50s with the common at 10s.  It's not a large profit margin.  Even with a large number of sales, because of my costs, I -might- make a plat a week in the good weeks (and only if I buy absolutely -nothing- else) but only if I put in at least 25+ hours a week making the potions and poisons. <div></div>