Why must we report bots/farmers?

[Tuved2]

<DIV>What happened to the secret new software that was supposed to make it easy for SOE to detect these guys? Why do we have to post and post and /report and /report and post screenshots just to get Blackguard say they will look into it. If SOE can't control bot crews now, am I really supposed to believe they will do it on Exchange servers? Nothing is being done. Sure you banned a few a while back. Keep going.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tuved2 on <span class=date_text>05-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:01 PM</span>

[peasant007]

<P>I agree.  I reported a suspected bot, and I got a message saying they would "look in to it" and to "contact them if I still have a problem with that player".  It was an obvious bot, and the character is still around.  What was the use?</P> <P>But even more importantly Tuved2...I love your signature :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[djhbeek]

especially the ones that are so obvious if a GM watched them for 10 mins they'd be banned.  With all the work we are doing tracking and reporting these guys, it would be nice to see a little effort on Sony's part.  And if you think I'm complaining about nothing, EVERY BOT that I knew about in January on Nektulos IS STILL THERE and everyone on Nektulos knows who they are.  They banned a couple of selling mules, but that's it.  Who know how they can ban a mule and not the toons that gave the mule 20 masters and 20 ebons, ... it's really puzzling. <div></div>

[IsmeldaLasomb]

Will you cast out 6 paying account per Botter ? Lets just hope they will all go on the station exchange and stay silly with all their farming items that every other botters will have.

[SavinDwa]

<P>I don't think its that obvious when someone is a bot and when they are not.  Yes there may be cases when its obvious.  But I have seen many posts here that were "obvious to the poster" and would have made me declared a bot.</P> <P>Example 1:</P> <P>The person is tradeskilling non stop.  Refuses to reply to tells.  Stays at the same machine for an hour then runs to the Vendor and back again and continues crafting.  Yep, that could be me on some days.  I cover up the chat box when crafting.  It just slows you down and is a distration.  All the good crafters I know do the same, or at least ignore tells.  In my case we have a special channel for for tells in my guild.  Its the only thing I don't have filtered out and I have a quick look at it about once every 15 minutes when I take a break.  I have more orders than I could possibily handle with my guild, the last thing I need is a "could you make this" in the middle of crafting.</P> <P>Example 2:</P> <P>I am a ranger that has not kept my Safe fall skill maxed.  I was in the Ironforge Exchange and got board crafting.  The thing is pretty empty normally.  So I ran up the stairs and jumped off about 60 times in a row [14 skill raises].  Someone accused me of being a bot and was going to report me. </P> <P>Now for another question....</P> <P>Is a person with 6 computers doing anything illegal by playing all 6 accounts?  Assuming they are just using standard EQ2 macro's?  I sit OK for a person with a single account to use a Macro?  Being a Crafter this is a problem.  There are definately BOTs down there.  What I want is for SOE to have so the person dies on a 3rd consecutive missed counter .. that will stop the BOTs....</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyway,,, I really think people are trivializing it when they say its obvious ... and they are really trivializing when they think its obvious and is definately against the rules.  I think it must be really hard for SOE to prove and I would prefer to see 9 guilty people missed rather than one innocent being accused and banned.</P>

[Xlap]

<DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>What I want is for SOE to have so the person dies on a 3rd consecutive missed counter .. that will stop the BOTs....</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>man i would rack up so much debt...no more crafting for me. i just ignore those things and work towards a pristine item =/</DIV>

[SavinDwa]

<P>Xlapus,</P> <P>The difference between countering and not countering is about a 10-15% difference in the time its takes to complete stuff in a 1 hour time slot.  This assumes that you are countering about 1 in 3 by luck.  What a lot of people don't seem to realize is that there is a positive gain caused by a correct counter.  In addition, now with the rare events the impact could be much greater.  I get a rare event about once an hour [not the super rares, but the common rare events].  I suspect that now if you are using your primary skill not countering events might result in 15-20% increase in the time it takes to make stuff on average.</P>

[Iggmarr]

<P>Ok heres my problem with thinking some one sitting at a tradeskill machine and crafting for an hour or two is a botter, or even one who misses the crafting events. </P> <P>This is how i tradeskill, I equip 8 24slot boxes and load up on raw materials, candles, sandpaper, liquid, u name it. Then i literally sit at the same machine for 8+ hours crafting. I occasionally run to the merchant to sell the inks that dont come out prestine or buy more fuel.</P> <P>So your telling me that i would be considered a botter?!</P> <P>Yes i DONT normally answer tells either. and Yes i DONT give a crap about the rare harvesting events or their normal counter parts. So far ive gotten favor of innovation 3 times (this was before i stopped caring about trying to counter the rare events) and not once when i succesfully countered it did i get a rare anything. So i just spam my progress and recover spells as im making it with blatent disregard for the crafting events. I usually get 1/4 of them right by accident.</P> <P>So basically most people would think im a botter...</P> <P>Witch Hunt man, thats all i have to say</P>

[Helt]

<P>I'm not a tester and I shouldn't be putting in my 2 cents but I do read what is going on with the game. I'll make it short - I watch TV while crafting, I miss lots of buffs. So am I a Bot? NO   When I answer (and I agree with the above post) some annoying persons (can you make this for me?) question and miss my buff am I a Bot? NO  If I decide to TWO-BOX while my wife makes dinner, goes outside to smoke or can't hold her beer, am I a Bot? NO  </P> <P>What I'm getting at is what do you really want SOE to do when you THINK it's a Bot? I do not believe in Bots, all it does is ruin the economy which is a mess already. Just give SOE a little slack and report who you think is a Bot and let them look into it. If they took our words for it, there would be no one left in the game. </P> <P>So if you see me in game, give me a minute, I might be watching Wheel of Fortune :smileytongue:</P> <P>Helton</P>

[Slinkie]

<DIV>" What I want is for SOE to have so the person dies on a 3rd consecutive missed counter .. that will stop the BOTs...."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ouch!  When crafting with my alchemist, I use my health as a resource just as I use my power.  If I'm fighting to keep a pristine, I will take a hit to my health so that I can use the icons that will increase my durability.  If I have just hit a counter when that particular error comes up, I will not wait for the timer to reset just so that I will not take a hit to my health.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, I tend to miss countering some events because I'm just in the process of using a buff and at the moment I hit it, the event occurs.  More often than not, I have just hit the wrong counter for the given event.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also tend to ignore the icons unless they are major events that can actually do damage.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Slinkie on <span class=date_text>05-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:07 AM</span>

[Y_Sli]

You're lucky, at you have received responses to your /reports.  On neriak server, I have /reported approx 40-50 times (every time I run through lavastorm and see the crew farming the beach/foulgill).  There has been numerous screenshots posted on our forums.  We have never had a GM response.  A GM has never contacted me about any of my reports.  When I /petition, I'm told to /report it. <div></div>

[BrainMu]

I watch t.v. and mash the keys..... just put some progress increasing skills in hotkey 1 and 2 and keep the mouse hovering over the begin repeat .. and mash away for hours...

[SinR]

what makes a 'bot' anyways?just because someone is crafting and doesnt respond? maybe they're too into the crafting, or have the sound turned off and didnt hear the 'you have a PM' sound? maybe they're enjoying helping the other 5 mage/sorc/wizard kill those mobs? perhaps they dont understand english?why should we be so quick to jump to conclusions? plus, sony isnt gonna do [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot], thats another 65 bucks they made per account.*pours gas on the fire*

[Tuved2]

Actually sorry. I meant this post more for plat farming crews not so much artisan bots. My bad.

[Traz]

<DIV>There are many different types of bots out there....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Crafting Bot...there are programs out there that let people set up their crafter to auto craft. They have boxes full of raws and fuels and tempers, start the program then leave for hours at a time. There are a couple I suspect on Oasis because while crafting there were 3 other people at the forges who were plagued, I invited all 3 to a group to cure them and no one joined nor did any DECLINE the invite,  I recieved no tells or comments over the next 2 hours I was down there. Now how many real people crafting would be able to sit there staring at a Join Group window dead center of their screen for 2 hours while trying to craft. And all 3 of them <STRONG>were</STRONG> crafting not simply afk, arm swinging, taking damage from missed counters etc. That is using an illegal program if I recall.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Plat farmers...these are the ones in zones running a full group with only 1 maybe 2 real people. Again they use programs to set up the slaves to auto cast or heal. They tend to camp a specific area where named spawn like outside of CT for Magus, Agony, Terror Lord etc. The one real person pulls the encounter and drags it back then has to position the mob so the slave toons are hitting it, the slaves being the 5 other toons piled up one atop another. Once that camp is cleared the slaves are put on auto follow and dragged to the next encounter. These are easy to spot, just watch for one person running around with 5 people stacked up on top of eachother following.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3) Cafe bot...yep Internet Cafe Bots, where some enterprising store owner sets up an account, at least its a theory, and lets someone play the game killing the same thing over and over, such as the magma wormlings on the shore of Lavastorm, 24 hours a day 7 days a week now thats insane dedication or alot of Meth useage. There are toons on Oasis that I swear have been played by over a dozen different people. These are the hardest to prove because its a real person playing all the time, no easy way for SOE to be able to tell or verify that the person playing is the one that has the actual account.</DIV>

[merdo]

<P>I have gotten reported so many times its friggen rediculous. I have been watched by gm's and sent tells a few times asked repeatedly if im there by people if i dont reply i get reported.</P> <P> </P> <P>This is out of controll  i play at half screen on my toon i dont see if i get invited to a group. I do see if i get tell sbut i get tells from people all the time asking are you there? </P> <P>I feel anyone who reports someone as a bot if there wrong should be warned or even banned for harassing people.</P> <P>I am not a bot i ts alot i have my prismatic weapon 68 incombat regen with items probably the best gear in the game 5 master 1 spells 16 adept 3 spells I play 2 accounts and am in the top guild on my server.</P> <P>I am bored with the content so i do ts waiting for expansion when guild calls i go kill a mob.</P> <P>All this reporting is crap its begenning to bugf the hell out of me to the point of quitting.</P> <P>when i get that tell from a gm that i get every 5 days or so I reply how can i help you yes im here i was in this zone blah blah i have played since 7 am this morning blah blah yadda yadda </P> <P>Its almost terrorism the amount of times i have been reported if this was RL i could have sued the crap off of you your ruining my gaming exp now go get a life.</P> <DIV>I wish the GM's would do something about the peopel who report any competetion or anyone in a ts instance hoping to get them banned.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ban them</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as for the real botters you can tell they #1 for a bunch of stuff rich as hell and have stupid names.</DIV>

[Gladesto]

<P>The devs simply do not care....If they did, they would check on this situation....Its a shame to, soes ego has grown so big...It doesnt care about bots...Ive seen this on, antonayle bayle almost every day...Kind of sad really....They even go after quest mobs...Dont tell me, you cant figure out who a bot is...Your really talking, out of your but if you cant tell....Its so easy to tell...There are teams out there...That log on every few hours...Go to one area, sea if agony is up...If hes up they auto go to him...Ive taken pictures an can show you...So dont tell me you cant tell who bots are, because you can...After they kill the name..They log out...Than later on, youl see them selling that rare, agony has droppes....Its just not in ferrott either...Same goes for everfrost...</P> <P>Its kind of funny one time...We ran to the mob, saw the bot team go...They whipped on the boss mob...Was trying to rez fast enough..Than we got agony an the book...We just started laughing at him...First time ive seen a bot crew whipe...So dont tell me its not obvious, you dont know who the bots are...</P> <P> </P>

[Helt]

<P>Trazic wrote: </P> <P>------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</P> <DIV> <DIV>2) Plat farmers...these are the ones in zones running a full group with only 1 maybe 2 real people. Again they use programs to set up the slaves to auto cast or heal. They tend to camp a specific area where named spawn like outside of CT for Magus, Agony, Terror Lord etc. The one real person pulls the encounter and drags it back then has to position the mob so the slave toons are hitting it, the slaves being the 5 other toons piled up one atop another. Once that camp is cleared the slaves are put on auto follow and dragged to the next encounter. These are easy to spot, just watch for one person running around with 5 people stacked up on top of eachother following.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So if my wife sticks her toon to me and makes dinner while I run around fighting (I line up the mobs so her character hits the mobs at least) am I a botter?  I don't think so</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I go to the store and buy 6 accounts and play 6 characters at the same time, am I a botter? Not really, insane player maybe, but a bot I think not. What do you expect SOE to do? I can't see how they are cheating anyone. If I have to wait my turn to play the game because the server was full because someone was playing 6 accounts and I couldn't get on, then I think you would have a point. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not see anywhere where SOE says you can only buy 1 account and only play 1 account at a time. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, with that all said. I do agree that bots ruin games, but there not really disregarding the rules.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Helton</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[ugl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Helton wrote:<BR> <P>So if my wife sticks her toon to me and makes dinner while I run around fighting (I line up the mobs so her character hits the mobs at least) am I a botter?  I don't think so</P> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I go to the store and buy 6 accounts and play 6 characters at the same time, am I a botter? Not really, insane player maybe, but a bot I think not. What do you expect SOE to do? I can't see how they are cheating anyone. If I have to wait my turn to play the game because the server was full because someone was playing 6 accounts and I couldn't get on, then I think you would have a point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not see anywhere where SOE says you can only buy 1 account and only play 1 account at a time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, with that all said. I do agree that bots ruin games, but there not really disregarding the rules.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Helton</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think your confused.  <FONT color=#ff0000>Botting is using a 3rd party program</FONT> to control the characters.    </P> <P> You are indeed allowed to play as many accounts on as many computers as you like.    Your just not allowed to use software to control the characters.  I know, I know, it is possible that all these bot crews arent really bot crews, and there is someone with 6 computers playing them all.   (I say that would be a very, very rare thing)</P> <P>  If you watch a botter, all the warlocks will cast at the same time, usually do to a text trigger that the third party program identifies and makes them cast.   It is very easy to see if you watch them.</P> <P> </P> <P>FYI> Third party programs are not just used to control character for combat, they are also used in tradeskilling and harvesting.</P> <P>The harvesting and tradeskill bots are alot harder to see then the fighting bots.   But just as real.   Prime sign of this is the characters will be on every moment the game is up, as they work in shifts.   It is also rumoured they use packet sniffers to determine which things to harvest have the rares, before clicking on them, but that is not confirmed.</P> <P> </P> <P>/petitioning botters has not had much effect.   Finally a month or so ago SOE had Bot ban week, which took out alot of them.   They are of course, already level 40+ again and going strong, seemingly more then ever before on most servers.</P> <P> </P> <P>It will not be long until botters start dropping raid mobs.   It also appears that plat selling companies  also have just "hired more workers" and gotten rid of the bot programs to some extent.   You will soon see them dropping raid mobs and selling the fabled loot.</P><p>Message Edited by uglak on <span class=date_text>05-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:27 AM</span>

[merdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> uglak wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Helton wrote:<BR> <P>So if my wife sticks her toon to me and makes dinner while I run around fighting (I line up the mobs so her character hits the mobs at least) am I a botter?  I don't think so</P> <DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If I go to the store and buy 6 accounts and play 6 characters at the same time, am I a botter? Not really, insane player maybe, but a bot I think not. What do you expect SOE to do? I can't see how they are cheating anyone. If I have to wait my turn to play the game because the server was full because someone was playing 6 accounts and I couldn't get on, then I think you would have a point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not see anywhere where SOE says you can only buy 1 account and only play 1 account at a time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, with that all said. I do agree that bots ruin games, but there not really disregarding the rules.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Helton</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think your confused.  <FONT color=#ff0000>Botting is using a 3rd party program</FONT> to control the characters.    </P> <P><STRONG> You are indeed allowed to play as many accounts on as many computers as you like.    Your just not allowed to use software to control the characters.  I know, I know, it is possible that all these bot crews arent really bot crews, and there is someone with 6 computers playing them all.   (I say that would be a very, very rare thing) </STRONG>anyone using 2 accounts or more are being reported if you use auto follow they are reporting you if you camp smace starters for your guild they are reporting you if you sell 2 cheaply they are reposting you, I actually saw someone say Xchar (not real name)  has to be a bot look he is selling adept 1 spells for 1g I reported him 2 days ago when i was at the broker in efp</P> <P>  If you watch a botter, all the warlocks will cast at the same time, usually do to a text trigger that the third party program identifies and makes them cast.   It is very easy to see if you watch them. </P> <P> </P> <P>FYI> Third party programs are not just used to control character for combat, they are also used in tradeskilling and harvesting.</P> <P>The harvesting and tradeskill bots are alot harder to see then the fighting bots.   But just as real.   Prime sign of this is the characters will be on every moment the game is up, as they work in shifts.   It is also rumoured they use packet sniffers to determine which things to harvest have the rares, before clicking on them, but that is not confirmed.</P> <P> </P> <P><STRONG>/petitioning botters has not had much effect.   Finally a month or so ago SOE had Bot ban week, which took out alot of them.   They are of course, already level 40+ again and going strong, seemingly more then ever before on most servers. </STRONG>I think you dont know what is really going on sony does investigate these i know for a fact but instead of botters being reported regular peopel are being reported out of spite what ever i dunno and sony is swamed with these how do i know? i know of 4 people on BB server who spam report anyone who doesnt respond to their tells.</P> <P> </P> <P>It will not be long until botters start dropping raid mobs.   It also appears that plat selling companies  also have just "hired more workers" and gotten rid of the bot programs to some extent.   You will soon see them dropping raid mobs and selling the fabled loot.</P> <P>Message Edited by uglak on <SPAN class=date_text>05-04-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>10:27 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I think helton has it right and betcha i get 1 starred for this by the people who report everyone who is better then them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I 2 boxed in eq1 for 5 years never had a gm ask me if i was macroing, i have been asked 3 times in the last 2 weeks</DIV>

[strath]

<DIV> <P>I don't think its that obvious when someone is a bot and when they are not.  Yes there may be cases when its obvious.  But I have seen many posts here that were "obvious to the poster" and would have made me declared a bot.</P> <P>Example 1:</P> <P>The person is tradeskilling non stop.  Refuses to reply to tells.  Stays at the same machine for an hour then runs to the Vendor and back again and continues crafting.  Yep, that could be me on some days.  I cover up the chat box when crafting.  It just slows you down and is a distration.  All the good crafters I know do the same, or at least ignore tells.  In my case we have a special channel for for tells in my guild.  Its the only thing I don't have filtered out and I have a quick look at it about once every 15 minutes when I take a break.  I have more orders than I could possibily handle with my guild, the last thing I need is a "could you make this" in the middle of crafting.<FONT color=#ff6633>Wrong, tells give a sound, you cant miss that if your at your desk and all good crafters do not ignore chat, in fact all good crafters chat while they are crafting because their good enuf too, and crafting itself for hours on end without chat is so mindnumbingly boring that it makes you sick.</FONT></P> <P>Example 2:</P> <P>I am a ranger that has not kept my Safe fall skill maxed.  I was in the Ironforge Exchange and got board crafting.  The thing is pretty empty normally.  So I ran up the stairs and jumped off about 60 times in a row [14 skill raises].  Someone accused me of being a bot and was going to report me. <FONT color=#ff6600>ok thats just supidity.</FONT></P> <P>Now for another question....</P> <P>Is a person with 6 computers doing anything illegal by playing all 6 accounts?  Assuming they are just using standard EQ2 macro's?  I sit OK for a person with a single account to use a Macro?  Being a Crafter this is a problem.  There are definately BOTs down there.  What I want is for SOE to have so the person dies on a 3rd consecutive missed counter .. that will stop the BOTs....</P> <P> </P> <P>Anyway,,, I really think people are trivializing it when they say its obvious ... and they are really trivializing when they think its obvious and is definately against the rules.  I think it must be really hard for SOE to prove and I would prefer to see 9 guilty people missed rather than one innocent being accused and banned <FONT color=#ff6600>One innocent peprson can be reinstated, doing far less damage than those 9 guilty people do in the time it takes to reinstate that one person, and sometimes theres suspicion, sometimes there is just knowing, when the armorer dies at the chemistry table,t aht hes been at for 5 days solid all day long, everytime you see him, you know hes botting, because its almost impossible for anyone even remotly half paying attention in thier sleep to die useing apothecary( ive seen it =/)</FONT></P></DIV>

[BlackHa]

<DIV>I work in a hazardous environment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are 2 primary methods of controlling hazards with respect to personnel saftey.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Engineering Controls</DIV> <DIV> <DIV>An example of an engineering control: Put up a physical barrier so that people cannot access a hazardous area. </DIV></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2) Administrative Controls.</DIV> <DIV>An example of an administrative control: Put up a sign warning of the danger and prohibit entry .</DIV> <DIV>Report those who enter and respond with disciplinary action.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In the examples above, the engineering control is the most effective. Alas, companys often choose option 2 because it is easier and cheaper.  Workers pay for it with their lives.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE is responding to cheats with administrative controls. Make no mistake about it...if SOE were truly serious about stopping the cheaters, the effort (and money) would be placed upon the code itself...instead of GM's and players.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I do not accept the responsibility of policing this game to save SOE the effort of applying engineering controls.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Helt]

<P>I'm not confused though I do act like it some days. I've used Macro's in Ultima Online like 7 years ago or more. I understand what they are and how they work. However, I was trying to defend someone who is not abusing those tools. Why doesn't SOE implement the crafting schematics (*sp.) like they did in SWG? I know it's a different theme but it would make crafting less boring. If you think about it, people wouldn't need to macro if it wasn't so [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] boring. :smileywink:</P> <P>I don't get the harvesting bots, I just can't see how it works. */em shrugs his shoulders. I only get ticked off when someone runs up to the same nod as me and starts harvesting. Then tells me Oh, sorry didn't see you standing there. Either they must think I'm incredibley stupid or they need a better graphics card. </P> <P>Ok, back on topic - Just be sure your reporting someone who is truely using these programs and not some AFK / two boxing person who is an honest person. </P> <P>/em tells everyone to get back to the game!</P> <P>Helton</P>