Please don't ruin the end game

[Grond]

<DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV>- Instanced epic encounters off The Feerrott, The Commonlands, Antonica, and The Orcish Wastes will now drop metal treasure chests 100% of the time. They also had their reuse timers increased to either 6 or 8 days upon completion of a successful raid.</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  If there is huge competition for contested mobs that may mean your guild cannot raid every night unless you take pains to plan your instanced mobs.  However, most will likely kill all of them in one night, and will have a week in which you will have nothing to do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  Orcish Wastes - I want a crafting book.  That means I get a shot every 6-8 days.  That means there is a very real chance I could go 2+ months without getting my </DIV> <DIV>crafting book.  The expansion could come out, and I could still be without a book.  You don't understand how much I take pride in crafting.  If I don't get a crafting book I might hang up the towel just because of that.  This is a VERY sore point.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously Sony.  You don't seem to understand what the BIGGEST complaint of level 50 players is.  Our biggest complaint is the fact that there is not enough for us to do.  Then you take our content away. (Not to mention secretly nerfing the number of master drops)  I have a question.  Did you confirm that every person that responded to your polls could actually TAKE these mobs down?  How do you know a bunch of 1-40 characters didn't input their comments.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have a feeling if you polled ONLY the people that have actually killed these mobs that 95 % of the people would want you to leave the current system alone.  Please reconsider this change sony.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Grondax Ix'Thania of the Shard</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Officer of Genesis on HIghkeep Server</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Level 50 Guardian / Level 50 Woodworker</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit:  I would be fine if the lockout was lowered to a reasonable timer.  Something like 3 days would be acceptable as long as CoD comes back up, and the new LS instance is interresting.  6-8 days, however, is simply killing raid time.  It isn't an improvement, or a happy medium.  It's crushing play time for everyone.  I don't think there is a guild out there that can kill these mobs that doesn't do so at least once every 5 days.  At the very worst meet us at 4 days.  Since the instances are a 25 % chance it would keep the current % of master drops the same.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, clarification on if the unique items are in addition to or replace the common loots when they drop would be nice.  Do these drops include more crafting components also that have been added to the drops of several mobs? </DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Grondax on <span class=date_text>04-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:24 PM</span>

[Sever]

Grondax, I totally agree with you. Our guild and any other guild that does the instances every night will probably agree with me. Please do not make these into 6 day lockouts, I would rather raid everyday for a chance at a master (under the current system) than your proposed 6 day lock-out 100% master chest droprate. Unless a lot more content is added, your system is heavily flawed and shows extreme favortism to those who DO NOT raid every day, or as your polls might reveal, can't even kill most or any of these mobs. We have built our guild in order to try to raid a couple of hours every night. Due to this change, we will likely get in 1, maybe 2 raids a night depending on whats up. People quit games due to lack of content and frankly, since I read this, a few in the guild have suggested even quitting the game due to this unless something is changed from what Moorguard posted in LU8 test notes. All I ask of you is to think before you patch this onto the live servers. Anyway, have a nice day. Saden 50 Illusionist Officer of Genesis Highkeep <div></div>

[fasht]

Question (And I don't have the answers, just curious) How often do those Steel Chests drop in raids? More importantly, do the Steel Chests contain the stuff you are looking for in a raid? (ie, do they contain the crafting books you want? Or are these found elsewhere... wooden chests?) Now, if you raid instance A once a night... How many chances to you get at the reward you want? Remember if it is in a Steel Chest you may not see those chests for a while Now consider that these longer raids now drop the steel chest every single time... I'd basically look at it and think how many raids it takes to get one steel chest... If it is 1 chest every second raid... well this is a bad thing for you If it is one chest ever 20 raids... well SCORE suddenly raids pay out more I dont know which it is, only been on 4 or 5 raids (and never seen a steel chest) <div></div>

[Findara]

I recall reading somewhere that the chances of getting a metal on the instances is 25%. so lets do some BASIC math. you raid them 6 times a week, thats about 1.5 metal chests (6*.25=1.5). Now you get 1 metal chest per 6 days. If the lock out is 8 days yea thats 2 metals per 8 days and now your at 1. Thats some kinda BS, you dont want metal loot to get on the market I promis you I have never seen our guild sell metal chest loot. I personally dont see a problem giving alts master chest loot that no one else wants. <div></div>

[mastalynx]

<P>A) Your math does not inculde the fact that most guilds raid these instances a couple times a week not 8 times</P> <P>B) If you are worried about getting a crafting book in the instances then ask them to look into increasing it instead of  threatening to quit (pretty greedy to since you are would be abandoning your guild over something trivial). That is a lame way to get what you want and its for the best if people not do that in these forums.</P>

[Grond]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> fashtas wrote:<BR>Question (And I don't have the answers, just curious)<BR><BR>If it is 1 chest every second raid... well this is a bad thing for you<BR>If it is one chest ever 20 raids... well SCORE suddenly raids pay out more<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I think the current number is 1/4 chance to get a master chest.  So by the current numbers we do in fact lose out if we hit it even 5/8 days.  The odds are nice enough, however, that if we hit Commonlands, Antonica, and Feerott in a day it's rare not to get a master out of one of them.  It isn't always something really nice, but 95 % of the time it's something useful.  Actually most of the bad items we get (*Cough* roundshields) come from contested mobs.  You must have had bad luck depending on what you raided.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The other problem is based on the content itself.  If the patch goes in we'll lose a lot of content to raid each night, and many members might quit of boredom.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My suggestion would be to keep the instances just the way they are, and add more content that has longer lockouts instead of 'nerfing' the current encounters.  The longer the lockout the more of a chance for a master.</DIV>

[Ishbu]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mastalynx wrote:<BR> <P>A) Your math does not inculde the fact that most guilds raid these instances a couple times a week not 8 times</P> <P>B) If you are worried about getting a crafting book in the instances then ask them to look into increasing it instead of  threatening to quit (pretty greedy to since you are would be abandoning your guild over something trivial). That is a lame way to get what you want and its for the best if people not do that in these forums.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This change is a direct hit at the HARDCORE RAIDERS.  </P> <P>Hardcore raiders hit these instances pretty much every night.  There are plenty of casual raiding guilds that may only hit an instance a couple times a week, but I cant see a single arguement for why the casual raiding guilds should get the EXACT SAME amount of raid loot that a hardcore raiding guild does.</P> <P>Obviously you are not in a hardcore guild(nothing wrong with that), you just dont understand how big of an affect this will have.  We raid every night and if we are locked out of every zone, there is nothing we can do.  For casual guilds this change hardly affects them at all.  Under the current system a casual guild can raid these zones every day that their numbers allow.  If they raid it 2 times a week, you should see AT LEAST one master chest every two weeks.  The possibility of one more master item a week does nothing (remember, you could conceiviably see 2 a week raiding it 2x a week) to help the guild, but gaurenteeing they wont see two in one week really makes people not want to log in.  </P>

[Omegafoxx]

<P>Personally, i think the level 50 game needs more then raids. </P> <P>Raids are all fine and dandy, nothing agianst people who do them daily. Personally, i would rather more zones liek nek castle the return, 6 man group zones. Sony should add more of these instance zones for single groups at level 50 and not just full on raids. Same way hardcore guilds can say this favours casual guilds, is the same way small guilds can say all the good content being restricted to players who are lucky enough to have 24 people in guild at level 50 that can raid daily is not fair.</P> <P>The end game is looking pretty bland, seems all sony expects level 50s to do is rally up and raid, then fight over loot, and if you dont have a massive guild, you have the shortend of the stick. Your forced to rely on the cash you have to buy whatever uber loot you want. Not everyone who cant raid is a casual player. Some want to raid, but just dont have the means around them to do so.</P>

[Kwoung]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ishboozor wrote:<BR> <P>This change is a direct hit at the HARDCORE RAIDERS. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>I don't think the word hardcore can be used on any level in describing any part of EQ2. Hardcore was EQ1,hardcore in EQ2 is pretty casual no matter how you look at it. If you can run around doing 2+ raids a night, that is called farming, not raiding.</DIV>

[Cecil_Stri]

<DIV>Thats why they should add aa.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So you can raid and get uber loot and still have stuff to do on the days where you can't find anything up.  Also i agree that more raids should be put in the game but this game does have alot of high end compared to any mmo i know at release.  (also remeber they are adding a new epic level zone to do and you still have t'haen and the other instance zones that were not changed)</DIV><p>Message Edited by Cecil_Strife on <span class=date_text>04-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:30 PM</span>

[Styl]

<P>You also need to realize that this is only gonna increase the gaps between the hard core raiding guilds and the casual guilds, not bring them toghther.</P> <P>Most of the hard core raiders have been farming these for months, and have gotten there entire guild equiped and able to take on harder mobs.</P> <P> </P> <P>If you increase the lockout timers to 6-8 days, by the time a casual guild gets to raiding, it will take them months upon months to equip there guild.  </P> <P> </P> <P>Thus the hardcore guilds will be all decked out, and off trashing the new expansions, while your casual guild will be still raiding the old content, just to outfit themselves to be able to take on the new expansions.</P> <P> </P> <P>In no way do I see a positive aspect to increasing these lockouts.</P> <P>Not to mention if your level 50 in adventure and tradeskill, what else is there to do, now that you will be locked out of raiding zones for most of the week.  </P> <P>Then you take into play that due to the long lockouts, the rare epic mob spawns are gonna be seriously fought over, just to have something to raid.</P>

[Dracko]

<DIV>If this change goes live most of are guild will quit. Everyone has already disscussed it...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>  Why in gods name would you want to take content away like this?? Do you even realize how many all level 50 guilds there are on any given server? Do you even realize how much level 50+ content there is in your game?</DIV> <DIV> Take a guild like mine. We have mabe 38 members all of which are level 50. WE PLAY TO RAID!!. We raid every night mabe one or 2 mobs mabe 3 if people are still awake.  Thats what he have to do aside from a few last heritage quests this is ALL WE HAVE TO DO!! </DIV> <DIV> So now you want to put 6-8 day lock outs on raid mobs? That leaves us mabe 2 nights a week to raid if we are lucky!! Sorry but no. We will leave this game and go someware else.</DIV> <DIV> Why you would even consider takeing away end game content in a game that has almost none already is beyond me. In a 3 or 4 year old game that has tons of end game content this might work but in a game that has only 15 or so end game targets this cant work.</DIV> <DIV>  Bottem line, this change goes live you will lose a ton of level 50 coustomers on the fact we truly will have nothing to do. End of story!!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>p.s. to the people saying you get more loot this way etc.. ITS NOT ABOUT LOOT!!! We raid to get loot yes but we raid cause thats all this is for us to do!!! You can only do the fire and ice quest so many times for gods sake!! Its about getting together every night and bashing a few heads in on a chance mabe something good drops that someone has yet to get. If we cant riad every night then why log in at all? I meen really?? Lock out end game raid mobs like that and its the end of the end game.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Drackoss on <span class=date_text>04-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:04 AM</span>

[Ibis]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kwoung wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Ishboozor wrote: <p>This change is a direct hit at the HARDCORE RAIDERS. </p> <hr> </blockquote> <div>I don't think the word hardcore can be used on any level in describing any part of EQ2. Hardcore was EQ1,hardcore in EQ2 is pretty casual no matter how you look at it. If you can run around doing 2+ raids a night, that is called farming, not raiding.</div><hr></blockquote> nothing against my raiding brethren, but man do I ever agree.  I just got tired of EQ1 after so long, but its a great game and it defined hardcore for much of its existence.   Only bloodlines is hardcore in EQ2, and I'm not going to put up with the time sink of the event over and over considering the alternatives.</span><div></div>

[Mat]

<P>Now that they are allowing a 100% metal chest drop, I would say able to raid daily is a big NO as it will slowly kill the valua of urber loots. Imagine everyone gets what they want if you can raid daily with 100% metal chest drop. In one or two months, unless you destory every single unwanted loot, the broker will be filled with these overstuffed uber items, which, the next complain would be "give us more unique suffs!"</P> <P>I do agree that there aren't many things to do at Lv50 however. Once hitting 50, your only choice is either raid, farm, rare component harvesting, tradeskilling (which I am giving up due to the endless boring procedure with minimal exp gain) and doing undone quests (which you would actually like to complete after the next cap release due to the exp reward.) NC: Return was fun but is getting old. Herritages almost full comp. </P> <P>My suggestion for SOE is, allow player to gain exp till Lv50 with 150% exp in a slower pace (eual to debt?), making long (but not too hard) solo/grp/raid based class/race specific Armor quests which has individually unique appearances, or, implement PvP system etc.</P> <P>Please consider my suggestion if you are reading this post/ Thanks. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[vro]

<div></div>I agree with Grondax,Limiting raids to 6-8 days is a bunch of crazy talk!  Once casual raiders start getting there 100% master chest drops every 6-8 days you'll begin to hear/see the overall root problem with Master chests, it ISNT there drop rate, its that the <b>Contents of Master Chests SUCK!</b><hr><u>Dramatization of when this goes live [Day 1]:</u>raidmob x has been killed.Player: Yay a Master Chest! <i>[Have a Round Shield]raidmob y has been killed.</i>Player: Woohoo, Another Master Chest <i>[Have another Round shield] </i>Raid Leader: Dosent anyone want this uber roundshield?<i>raidmob z has been killed.</i>Player: Woot! 3/3 100% droprate rocks! Hope its not another shield <i>[Have a Kite shield]</i>Player: Seeya all next week!  Maybe next week we'll get some cool.... 6-8 days later ...Player: /gu did u guys hear about the Honor Kills system in WoW, oh yea, Im selling my eq2 account outa boredom, bye.<hr>We need<b> MORE </b>content, and better loot tables, not week long lockout times on instances!24 raiders, 1 master chest.  How many raid mobs would the same 24 raiders need to kill, for each person to get a single piece of Fabled loot???Assuming a perfect virtual world, 24 master chests.  Figure Zek, CL, Feerrott, and we'll figure a few more that'll be added.  Lets say there are 6 instanced raidmobs you can fight every 6 days.  In a PEFRECT virtual world it would take a little less than a month for the same 24 raiders to get 1 piece of Fabled loot they could use.  EQ2 isnt perfect, so we'll double the number of master chests needed to 48 (still way off i'm sure).  If these numbers are anywhere close to right we're looking at around 2 months of raiding once every 6 days in order to hopefully get 1 piece of Fabled armour for each of the 24 raiders.How many guildies are in your guild? 50? So in the very best case real life senario you'll be looking at 4-5 Months in order to get a guild of 50 50's each a single piece of fabled loot.To wrap this up, assuming 6 day lockout, 6 instanced raidmobs, 50 guidies: If we kill 6 raidmobs every saturday for 20 weeks I'll get 1 piece of fabled loot.  Great! Now what should I do with the 120 total days between raids./ponderThis is probably the best business model EVER, if it works... As everyone gets to 50 and stops logging on every day people will start only logging on for planned raids (every saturday?) so there will be hundreds/thousands of people paying a very high monthly service fee to play 4 nights a month... again best business model EVER, if it works...Wow, this post grew much bigger than I planned it to be...  sorry for the poor grammer/spelling/ranting and the run-on sentances.<u>My unwanted advice for SOE:</u>Use your ingame survey MORE.  Dont get a feel of the customer base from the forms.  Everyone goes to forms to Flame/Rant.  SOMETIMES important things come up (like this thread) but you need to be asking more questons ingame.  I'd guess less than 25% of players actuailly visit/read these forms.Good Luck & Good Day. =)<div></div>

[Sonnyjim_Grumblestump]

While I'm sorry to see the complaints come in from the high-end raiders, I have to say, from a casual guild perspective, this is good news, and in fact, I wish they'd consider doing the same for some of the lower level epic raids. Quite simply, we are a casual guild, and don't really have our sights set on getting everyone decked out in fabled gear, but when we come together to do a raid (schedules permitting) and plug through it, it is somewhat dissapointing for everyone to get vendor loot out of it. Everyone is much happier if someone can score something good, even if that someone isn't us. This doesn't mean I don't think the devs have their work cut out for them trying to keep the end game guilds entertained, but at the same time, rare loot is supposed to be .. well.. rare. Not farmable. <div></div>

[Eadric]

<DIV>From reading this thread (and others like it) I think one of the big issues is that you can do 5 or 6 raids in a single night. When PoF was first released in EQLive it took hours to clear the zone and each mob had the potential to drop something really, really nice. A small area with a handful of mobs is hardly raidworthy.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know that SOE wants to keep the interdependency between adventurers and artisans, but drops could just as easily be components specific to a given type of armor like the armor quests they had in Velious.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Perhaps, in time, SOE will also have enough raid-worthy content out there that this system will work for the hardcore guilds (I know that I wouldn't want to be bored either).</DIV>

[Ibis]

thats a point we've tried to make eadric.  we dont enjoy running from zone to zone taking out 1-2 encounters.  we'd like to sit down somewhere and really defeat a zone of allied mobs. they should instance a copy of the forest ruins (a noob zone in qeynos) and make it a nice little raid zone with triggered spawns and the such.  NOT full of 100 +++ cons, which only = timesink. <div></div>

[Findara]

what your all forgetting is the fact that even after farming these instances for months our guild still is not even half geard up. There isnt a single mob we havent killed many times and what do we have to show for it, like 3 tower shields of the might and a coupple Kite shields of the king in the bank. Random loot from every mob is wrong.  We have farmed ant for 2 weeks straight and gotten nothing but wood, Yea thats for gearing up your guild. How about doing Sol Fist and getting the same loot we got from x2 mobs.  Its not about how much you raid these instances is Quality vs. Time. If your going to do an instance every night and get nothing out of it then its not worth doing. I wanted the longer "spawn time" on the instances because the Time vs. Quality would be worth doing them. Hell yesterday we did CL and beat it in 60 seconds, yea thats right, 60 seconds and guess what a metal with a nothing worthless Kite Shield of the King,  If your worried about stuff getting on the market from raids then stop making the same crap drop over and over, sooner or later you will see many of our KSotK on the market, or even the Tower Shield of Might.   The way it is, and the way it will be hurts us that got to the top first, please throw us a bone, and give us instances that allow us to get more than one drop every time we go in, and how about some more Master 1 spells? About your crafting book, too bad your not in Grobb we have like 30 Armor books from Zek, and about 30 more Weaponsmith/Jewler books, but have yet to see the fabled Spell scroll. Your players want loot SoE not to spend more time playing other games (WoW any one?), Give us a chance to raid one instance a night and always have one up. 5 day "Spawn Times" on the instances will be perfect and I dont think you will have any guild [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing about it. <div></div>

[Prax]

<div></div>My guild is second best on our server and I must say we love this change. We were frustrated to the point of quitting with the lame wooden chests drops from raid mobs.  Don't listen to the nay sayers SOE, you know from the posts in the thread in the combat sig that 90% are in favour of this. Just please lower the lockout to say, 4 days. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Praxus on <span class=date_text>04-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:43 AM</span>

[Raxe Sla]

<P>Look, the issue isnt how much master loot the raiding guilds are getting(thats a completely different issue).  The issue is that if we cant raid every nigh their really isnt much for us to do.  Unless you are planning on 15-20 new instances or other content, than this is a VERY bad idea.  SOE please dont bring this live, what do you expect people at lvl 50 to do?????</P> <P> </P> <P>I'd like to hear a devs answer to this.</P>

[Rra]

<div></div>Amazing how SOE does something good to epic encounters and people complain. I've killed king zalak about 10 times probably and seen 1 master chest drop, so if I can just hit him once a week and know I won't get crap thats fine with me. Same goes for the other encounters. Plus this only effects 4 instances, so there are still a healthy amount of other epic mobs to hit. I do however see one problem with this, and that is that fact that if a guild isn't working on Advancing the different parts of the Nagafen line of quests, they will probably be short on raid mobs some nights. A quick way to remedy this - once a guild defeats Darathar they gain the ability to go back and fight all the different drakota's that were involved along the way. This opens up tons of raid mobs even for guilds that are pretty much full prismatic. The only problem there is that the drakotas are complete push overs but oh well. At least they are adding more epic encounters, so I don't think raiding guilds will find themselves without much to do in the future. I believe some people also missed the part about all epic encounters having "unique" loot now, which if it works the way it did in EQ, is a huge step towards revitalizing the good feelings you had in EQ when <i>raid mob z</i> dropped that super rare item everyone was looking forward to <span>:smileyhappy:</span> So sure they may make a few change that hurt hardcore raiders, but if they keep adding epic instances and the unique loot table thing turns out good, i'd say these are great changes for all raiding guilds. Don't slap SOE in the face when they try to give ya a cookie (even if its an oatmeal cookie). <div></div><p>Message Edited by Rrael on <span class=date_text>04-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:10 PM</span>

[Imri]

<P>The way I read it is that it limits you from reusing the same raid zone, not from doing a bnch of raids in different zone. That could still mean several metal chests a week. </P> <P>Also Moorgard did ask for player opinion on which they would rather have on the vault boards (I didn't see it here, but I am guessing he did here as well).</P> <P>The general consensus on that question was less raiding with guaranteed good loot instead of more raiding with so so loot.</P>

[Grond]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rrael wrote:<BR><BR>So sure they may make a few change that hurt hardcore raiders, but if they keep adding epic instances and the unique loot table thing turns out good, i'd say these are great changes for all raiding guilds. Don't slap SOE in the face when they try to give ya a cookie (even if its an oatmeal cookie).<BR> <P>Message Edited by Rrael on <SPAN class=date_text>04-29-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:10 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>*Shrug*  I think they should have unique loot from the start, and that it shouldn't be considered a treat.  My opinion on loot (the first post was on actually having stuff to do, not loot)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  At the current rate of loot drops (including every contested mob, because we haven't lost a contested in over two and a half months) people still claw over master drops.  I don't think loot is coming into the game to fast right now.  I'd say it is just right if not a tad too slow (CoD and the new LS one would make it just right I think for the expansion).  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  Every mob should have a shared loot table with 1 or 2 other similar encounters with 3-4 items in the table.  They should then also have a common unique item, and a rare unique item.  Even the common would be better in quality then the other drops, but of course your chances to get them will be low.  So it'd be a treat when you got them.  Especially if, for example, you got the rare unique item from Vaz'gok or something like that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.  Instanced zones should have low lockouts, and a % chance at masters.  You forget that the reason we got instanced zones in the first place was to put in raidable content that didn't need to be camped.  Now you've got to wait a week to do it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4.  Contested mobs, in addition to any master equipment, should drop one master spell.  My biggest pet peeve is that trash one group mobs drop masters more then raid mobs.  Of course when you get a spell instead of equipment that also blows, because very rarely is the spell truely master quality in worth.  I don't think this is something that would break the balance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5.  Contested mobs, in addition to any master equipment, should have a % chance to drop crafting components based on the each mob.  Vaz'gok for example would (as is now) always drop a crafting component, but an x2 might only have a 10 % chance.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>6.  Every Contested mob should drop a piece of master equipment.  This includes x2 mobs.  Not just a 95 % chance for them, or whatever the current drop rate is.  Maybe 2 for the really epic mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>7.  More contested mobs.  Simple as that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That all said I care more about having things to do then my silly loot ideas.  I just want fun content to raid every night of the week.  I don't think that is too much to ask for.</DIV>

[Bard]

I dont like oatmeal cookies :smileysad:

[Blackdog183]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ishboozor wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mastalynx wrote:<BR> <P>A) Your math does not inculde the fact that most guilds raid these instances a couple times a week not 8 times</P> <P>B) If you are worried about getting a crafting book in the instances then ask them to look into increasing it instead of  threatening to quit (pretty greedy to since you are would be abandoning your guild over something trivial). That is a lame way to get what you want and its for the best if people not do that in these forums.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This change is a direct hit at the HARDCORE RAIDERS.  </P> <P>Hardcore raiders hit these instances pretty much every night.  There are plenty of casual raiding guilds that may only hit an instance a couple times a week, but I cant see a single arguement for why the casual raiding guilds should get the EXACT SAME amount of raid loot that a hardcore raiding guild does.</P> <P>Obviously you are not in a hardcore guild(nothing wrong with that), you just dont understand how big of an affect this will have.  We raid every night and if we are locked out of every zone, there is nothing we can do.  For casual guilds this change hardly affects them at all.  Under the current system a casual guild can raid these zones every day that their numbers allow.  If they raid it 2 times a week, you should see AT LEAST one master chest every two weeks.  The possibility of one more master item a week does nothing (remember, you could conceiviably see 2 a week raiding it 2x a week) to help the guild, but gaurenteeing they wont see two in one week really makes people not want to log in.  </P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Honestly if you want harcore raiding, go play eq1, that game is all about harcore raiding, trust me, I played it for years.</P> <P>This change was done to appease the majority of respondants to MG's thread last week.  Learn to live with it.  I personally DO NOT agree with the length of the timer, and feel 3 days is more inline and appropriate.  I can say this with authority, Ive seen 2 master chests my entire time in eq2, and both were from nek castle(sad i know).  I presonally love the idea of going into an instanced raid KNOWING a master chest drop is the reward.  Nothing pisses me off more than spending the time to raid and get crap loot.(which is what happens on live more often than not)</P>

[Sliverhammer]

Wonderful changes! Thanks a bunch SoE, my 130 strong guild loves it! <div></div>

[Moorgard]

<DIV>The changes to epic raid zone timers currently on Test will not be going to the live servers with Live Update #8. After talking a lot about it and watching the debate, we've decided that we want to find a better solution to the conflict between frequency and rarity.<BR> </DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV>To be clear, this is the change that will NOT be going live:<BR> </DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV></FONT></DIV> <DIV> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt">- Instanced epic encounters off The Feerrott, The Commonlands, Antonica, and The Orcish Wastes will now drop metal treasure chests 100% of the time. They also had their reuse timers increased to either 6 or 8 days upon completion of a successful raid.</P></DIV>

[Raistlan]

Thank you Moorgard.  I'm not going to say I was going to quit with this change, but I think with a lack of events to do each night, I would of eventually.  My suggestion as a solution in this case would be to leave Antonica and Commonlands as they are, and put in the changes that we were opposed to on Zek and Feerrott.  Again, thank you for your understanding on this issue, you've made me a happy raider. <div></div>

[naeldayy]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><div>The changes to epic raid zone timers currently on Test will not be going to the live servers with Live Update #8. After talking a lot about it and watching the debate, we've decided that we want to find a better solution to the conflict between frequency and rarity. </div><div></div><div></div><div>To be clear, this is the change that will NOT be going live: </div><div></div><div></div><div><p>- Instanced epic encounters off The Feerrott, The Commonlands, Antonica, and The Orcish Wastes will now drop metal treasure chests 100% of the time. They also had their reuse timers increased to either 6 or 8 days upon completion of a successful raid.</p></div><hr></blockquote>Thank you.</span><div></div>

[Strifex]

<DIV>Yay thanks~</DIV>

[naeldayy]

Also, if you want any help coming up with clever raid content, quests and treasure for end gamers hit me up. <div></div>

[eqbunn]

"Honestly if you want harcore raiding, go play eq1, that game is all about harcore raiding, trust me, I played it for years." You know I dont want to flame you but, they could also say you want a casual boreing gimmie everything type game go play wow...trust me  I've tried it......They play the game by the rules and have fun the same as you, at least they are not the casual people that want to just buy thier way up through "station exchange" <div></div>

[Karde Shar]

<DIV>Whether you care to admit it or not, they buy they're way up through Ebay or any number of like-minded auction sites.  Hate to bust your bubble.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sonnyjim_Grumblestump]

As the leader of a casual guild, I was looking forward to these changes, but I think I understand what it would mean to high end raiders. I guess as long as you are willing to continue to look at a way of making raids worthwhile to casual guilds who dont want to bust our butt to get enough people to attend, only to get a wooden chest, then I'll wait and see. <div></div>

[zeeke]

<DIV>100 cheers for moorgard!!! Thank you for taking our feedback into consideration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Prax]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>I cannot believe that you started a thread on this that got to 12 pages with by far most people saying they would prefer the always master chest plan; then you ditch it because of a handful of whiners <span>:smileysad: </span>True the lockout period was excessive; but most people seem to be ok with lockouts of about 4 days so do that then...anything but the status quo. I played EQ Live for 2 years and I have never seen the rate of top level people quitting the game as I do here.  <p><span class="time_text"> </span></p><p><span class="time_text"> </span></p><p>Message Edited by Praxus on <span class=date_text>04-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:35 PM</span>

[Blackdog183]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> eqbunnie wrote:<BR>"Honestly if you want harcore raiding, go play eq1, that game is all about harcore raiding, trust me, I played it for years."<BR><BR><BR>You know I dont want to flame you but, they could also say you want a casual boreing gimmie everything type game go play wow...trust me  I've tried it......They play the game by the rules and have fun the same as you, at least they are not the casual people that want to just buy thier way up through "station exchange"<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>First off, Im no casual gamer, 2nd I left eq1 for good reason(namely the crap that eq2 is starting to lean towards)</P> <P>Second, I dont want gimmie this or that, but I DO want my time to be rewarded with good stuff.  I DO NOT want this to be another eq1 raid mentality of stupid long spawn on contested mobs being camped by 40 different guilds that becomes a race against time to see who can get on the phone the fastest.</P> <P>Third, my views on station exchange are neutral, as long as it isnt on my server, I could give a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] less to be honest.  My concern is that the devs will start balancing content on people who are twinked to hell and back on station servers.</P>

[naeldayy]

<span><blockquote><hr>Praxus wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>I cannot believe that you started a thread on this that got to 12 pages with by far most people saying they would prefer the always master chest plan; then you ditch it because of a handful of whiners <span>:smileysad: </span>True the lockout period was excessive; but most people seem to be ok with lockouts of about 4 days so do that then...anything but the status quo. I played EQ Live for 2 years and I have never seen the rate of top level people quitting the game as I do here.  <p><span class="time_text"> </span></p><p><span class="time_text"> </span></p><p>Message Edited by Praxus on <span class="date_text">04-29-2005</span> <span class="time_text">09:35 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote> I take offense to this.  A handfull of whiners didnt change anyone's mind, people having civilized discourse about a subject that they care about changed their minds.  You should be more considerate as an advocate of the casual player, none in the hardcore end game was trying to make your playstyle any less fun. </span><div></div>

[CarlTe]

<DIV>We all know its fun to go into a instance and die because of some bug then be unable to re-enter for multiple days, leaving this change out was a good idea. A better idea would to be make the raids more challenging/difficult and give them a 100% drop rate. If this game is too hard for you go play Tetris<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[nig]

<FONT color=#99ffcc></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Moorgard wrote:<BR> <DIV>The changes to epic raid zone timers currently on Test will not be going to the live servers with Live Update #8. After talking a lot about it and watching the debate, we've decided that we want to find a better solution to the conflict between frequency and rarity.<BR> </DIV> <DIV>To be clear, this is the change that will NOT be going live:<BR> </DIV> <DIV> <P>- Instanced epic encounters off The Feerrott, The Commonlands, Antonica, and The Orcish Wastes will now drop metal treasure chests 100% of the time. They also had their reuse timers increased to either 6 or 8 days upon completion of a successful raid.</P></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#00ccff>Adding quest book from wood chest is the right way to fix this issue.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff>These quest book will need quest component that drop also from that chest like 3 tradable gems use for quest update</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff>Once quest is complete u got option for 4 items ( one with pieces of armor/Jewelry ) to choose for your class.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff>So the quest can give a 12 wis/sta/str/agi necklace and you just have to choose the one you want to wear. Of course such items should be par with Fabled items and higly desired by player.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff>Moreover as its quest book, it wont flood the market of final rare items( no trade quest items ).</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff>You still offer the possibility for hard core raiding guild to get very nice items from wood chest but at a at a smaller rate than increasing master chest to 100% drop rate.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00ccff>And still Master chest drop  can provide nice items,</FONT></P> <P><SPAN class=time_text>EDIT : About the quest items needed make that its only one kind of items ( like gems or feather ). But not several items like a blue/red/green gems where the drop rate on one color will be 1/10 and the bottleneck  of the quest....</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by nigni on <span class=date_text>04-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:02 AM</span>

[Imri]

I thought this was a good change myself. If I can only go into a raid zone once a week, oh well. That would give time to farm money to make any repairs, as well as the choice to go raid other zones. I think once they get a good 25 or so end game raid zones this could work fine as there is always something to raid and you have enough raid content to go every night for over two weeks before you would need to go back to the one you got locked out on. Just as long as those 6-8 day timers are for successful raids only. As it stands now a timer of maybe 3-4 days would work well with a guaranteed master drop.

[Murdon]

<P>sorry to hear that they are backing out of this change.</P> <P>been raiding the epic instances for months now and im pretty sick of doing them almost every single day.</P> <P> </P>

[Opa]

Here's a zainy idea, why not let the raid leader choose? When they right-click the zone-in, the box could pop up: "Enter ZoneX: Epic (8 day lockout)  Enter ZoneX: Epic (18 hour lockout)" Loot rules could then be whatever worked best for the guild or raid party.   <div></div>

[MadisonPark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Murdon wrote:<BR> <P>sorry to hear that they are backing out of this change.</P> <P>been raiding the epic instances for months now and im pretty sick of doing them almost every single day.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Thing is, no one forces you to raid every single day. You can limit yourself and raid each instance once every 6-8 days. Don't impose a limit on the people who do enjoy raiding multiple instances every day.

[Gnimsh Bonesmuggl]

<DIV>Thank you Moorgard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gnimsh</DIV> <DIV><EM>GL of Monolith, Steamfont</EM></DIV>

[Kwoung]

<P>The funny thing is, once they have put in another bunch of high level raid areas and you are not stuck doing the same few over and over, the folks that petitioned against this change are going to be the ones at fault for there not being master chests every time you whack a boss... and they have just created an even longer grind for themselves and everyone else in the future to get the new upgrades as they become available. </P> <P>Talk shortsightedness and about not thinking ahead, this would have been an awesome long term change. Four months down the road, imagine hitting 2 different bosses every single night of the week and always getting raid loot.. but now you will hit two different bosses every single night and be lucky to get a couple pieces of worthwhile loot for the entire weeks raiding.</P> <P>Oh yeah.. and the raid loot you are fighting to be able to hit more often in the short term now.. will most likely be junk compared to the future stuff you will be wanting to get your hands on, but just made it a pain in the backside to get. And don't think they will ever make this change after you can hit different bosses every night, as that will never happen.. you just blew your chance at making the long term raid game better.</P><p>Message Edited by Kwoung on <span class=date_text>04-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:28 PM</span>

[TeckL]

Yeah lets brush off the 12 pages of posts where people said they would Like to see this change. Although a guild could clean out 4 or 5 instances in 1 day, Play it smart, raid 1 or 2 a day and spread out your lockout times, maybe 1 or 2 days of the week you have nothing to do, rare mobs will spawn. Like Praxus said Ive never seen this many top gamers quit a game like this. Top players are leaving this game to play another, they'll get hooked and committed there and never come back. Oh but wait, we arent taken into concideration here. Its a Casual players game...EQ1 FTW!! <div></div>

[Noo]

<DIV>I was looking forward about this change cause there would have been a chance for my guild to get some master chests at all. There are two guilds on my sever that are able to raid x4 Mobs and we are one of those two. The other guild has to have a lot ppl that are able to play from 1 to 11 pm. We are not that lucky. Most of our people are working each day and have a family. We are able to log in and have a raidable force not before 8 pm. By that time, each raidable mob outside of the instance zones is dead. We have no chance to get a chance on Venekor, Fist, Vaz Gok etc. We are no worse players, we can take down all the mobs the other guild can. The only diffrence is, most of us have jobs. Is that the way you want guild compete? I just hope this will have a solution soon, right now its just frustrating.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Noogard</DIV> <DIV>Officer of Paradigma on the Valor Server</DIV>

[Telbain]

<P>It is a shame they're not going live.</P> <P>I, personnally, don't understand how this could ruin the end game.  Repetition of the same thing over and over again for a slim chance at loot is not exciting in the least.  Once you beat an encounter, the challenge is gone. We can do commonlands in our sleep and we do it frequently at the shot of metal chests when the "Good mobs" are down.</P> <P>We call them "Good mobs" because they always drop master chests.  Having to do CL daily just for a slim chance at a master chest daily is what I consider a poor end game. If some people find that much repetition fun, more power to them, but for us, its just annoying.</P> <P>We'd rather hit it once every 6-8 days and know we're going to get something our guild can use, not hit it daily and due to the random, not see something we can sue for four weeks. </P> <P>Ferrel</P>

[Telbain]

<DIV>I also wanted to address three things in this thread up until now that struck me as odd and totally unrelated to this change.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Someone mentioned that they don't want this to turn into "EQ1 with 40 guilds camping the same crap."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are INSTANCE zones. 40 guilds can camp it and when your timer runs out, all 40 can do it. The timer is an individual timer on each player.  One guild beating these encounters has no bearing on any other guild.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also saw someone mention that it isn't fun to go in, die to a bug and then be "locked out."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Fail timers are gone. If you go in and die, then you go back in and try again.  Simple as that.  Until you win, you can go in over and over.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How about, "My guild is huge, if you can only do it once every 8 days, people get left out."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Again, this is inaccurate. The timer is PER PLAYER.  So if your guild, for unknown reasons, is 100 members, form three 24 man raids and hit it three times! You can do it, I promise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I honestly mean no disrespect, but it seems like you guys haven't done the homework to know how these work. You just railed against a change that is honestly very good.  It is NOT fun to do these things 7 times a week and maybe get one master chest.  Its basically the same thing except your time is BETTER spent if you do it once a week and know you'll get it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ferrel</DIV><p>Message Edited by Telbain on <span class=date_text>04-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:20 PM</span>

[Dresden00]

<P>I think to almost all the players at the high end, the changes are the best way to go about the instance zones.  If you do these zones daily, you know how repetitive they can get.  The idea of doing them once a week is a welcome idea, since right now we do them over and over and get little usable loot.  At least with the once-a-week option, we know we would get a metal chest.  This way guilds could have "epic night" or two days outta the week that they hit the epics.  Would be very preferrable to hitting them everyday, so that you can do other things for a change while not doing statics and epics (quests, nek 2.0, 1 group zones, etc).  Or god forbid, we get to take a small break.</P> <P>The only players that hit these zones daily are the guilds with enough 50s that have both the inclination and ability to defeat the epic encounters without much difficulty.  I think if you ask these players, they would say that they prefer to not have to do them so repetitively and would welcome a weekly raid that always dropped metal.</P> <P>I know that everyone I have talked to in my guild would prefer that those changes go live, instead of bowing to a few posters who may or may not fully understand how the zones work or do them as many times as we have.  I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that those guilds who have done the epics daily for month(s) would be happy with the changes.  Please don't take them out, they are a good idea.  </P> <P>If you absolutely must reach a compromise between daily and weekly, I would suggest a 3-4 day re-entry timer and a very high chance of metal (not assured, but almost always drops metal).</P> <P>However, I personally think that the epics would be better end-game content if they were more like the statics (ie 1 week and always metal).  I believe the statics are still the best part about the end game because they always give loot, so when you work hard to take one down, you know there is going to be decent loot at the end of it.  This assurance of getting something worthwhile out of an encounter should always be an aspect of the end game IMO, especially when you mobilize up to 24 people to accomplish the task.</P>

[Kwoung]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Grondax wrote:<BR> <DIV><SPAN class=navbar_text>Please don't ruin the end game</SPAN> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, it was you and those who agreed that just ruined the end game for everyone, as now everyone will be stuck killing the same mob over and over for a week straight in hopes of getting a master chest, instead of being able to kill the mob once, getting the loot, and going on to the next epic mob for a different piece of loot. Thanks a lot, I just wish I loved camping and disappointment at crummy loot as much as you, so I could appreciate the current system as much as you seem to.<BR>

[Raxe Sla]

<DIV>You guys are missing the point, What are you going to do when you are locked out of every instance?  it takes at max 30 minutes to do a raid, - You could farm nek50 every day I guess?  The point is without extra content this change doesnt make any sense -  Doing the same raids over and over might not be fun for you - but if your idea of fun is to play this game, then how would having nothing to do most days be better??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like I said earlier if they add a ton of zones to the game I'm all for this, if not then its just making less for us to do.</DIV>

[Kwoung]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raxe Slade wrote:<BR> <DIV>The point is without extra content this change doesnt make any sense -  Doing the same raids over and over might not be fun for you - but if your idea of fun is to play this game, then how would having nothing to do most days be better??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Like I said earlier if they add a ton of zones to the game I'm all for this, if not then its just making less for us to do.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>The point is, when they do add extra content, we are now stuck farming still instead of being able to experience it. Support of the OP is very short sighted and is going to do nothing but make the game a drag in the long run... after there is more content than you could possibly take in a week. I personally would rather be doing other things for the time being and know later on the fun and  loot will be rolling in, instead of being stuck farming the same mob for eternity.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kwoung on <span class=date_text>05-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:21 AM</span>

[Prax]

Complaint threads about these changes never got past about a page and a half and the devs [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot]ing caved and reversed the changes; sorry I'm [Removed for Content], our whole guild was counting on this to make the game fun again. <div></div>

[Raxe Sla]

<DIV>Kwong, when the new content is added would it be so hard for them to make the changes then?  I think it is you who is being shortsighted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To praxus what is your guild going to do if the changes went into place?  Other than sit around and wait for lockout timers to be up?></DIV>

[Prax]

Although we were third on our server to kill darathar; we only raid three days a week because thursday thru saturday most members are busy with rl stuff. Even if we weren't, I can't see farming instances every night for wooden chests 90% of the time as being very fun. The end game now is very boring, at least with these changes people would be into raiding knowing that there'd be a reward. And as others have posted, as they add more content there'll be more to do for those guilds who raid nightly. Especially if they make the instances a more reasonable lockout then the excessive 6-8 days. <div></div>

[Procter]

<DIV>I'm sorry, but I actually enjoyed doing the instances even if a metal chest did not drop, they instances were just getting interesting with the new changes.  And all of you people calling hitting the instances every night "farming" are gravely mistaken.  It's called raiding because raids in this game are entirely different then they were in EQ1 and take usually no more than 30 minutes to complete.  It's called a raiding guild, not a farming guild.  I enjoy raiding with my guild several hours a night and this change will severely limit the things our guild can do togather on some nights.  But im not cursing the idea yet, some of the new information was a little vague. Im curious to see what the new unique loot is and excited about the new instance in lavastorm.  So im just going to wait and see.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Procter01 on <span class=date_text>05-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>01:56 PM</span>

[minem]

<P>I dont think this game was released for people who want to raid 24/7 ...... that change is fine with me</P> <P>Im not looking for another raid-centric, huge time sink game, eq1 as that covered......</P> <DIV>Raid zones with multiple mobs to kill with an end boss is far better then moving around 10 instances every god [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] night. Thats a job not a game like most of us want.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Get rid of the time sinks , i should be able to buy a stone or anything which allows to instantly teleport to any place in the world, Heck make it lvl 50 if you wish but running around for hours in a virtual world doesnt do anything for my fun factor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Minem/Guk</DIV> <DIV>50 Conjuror</DIV> <DIV>2/3 Pets broken since launch, Amazing....</DIV>

[Telbain]

<DIV><EM>You guys are missing the point, What are you going to do when you are locked out of every instance?  it takes at max 30 minutes to do a raid, - You could farm nek50 every day I guess?  The point is without extra content this change doesnt make any sense -  Doing the same raids over and over might not be fun for you - but if your idea of fun is to play this game, then how would having nothing to do most days be better??</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>I think you're inaccurate in your assessment that we're "missing the point." Your point is very clearly that you want to have something to "raid" 7 days a week.  The break down is that I don't define a raid as "doing something really easy over and over again for no reward."  As it stands, that IS what the epics are.  If it isn't easy for you, fantastic, a challenge is fun.  For us, we've done them a million times, there is no challenge and most often, there is no reward.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You ask, what will I do when I'm locked out of every instance? I will go to class and/or work. I will turn OFF everquest and play (insert computer game of your choice) with my friends. I will do a trade skill, I will do nek 2.0 with a group, I will play a twink, I will play on another server with other friends.  I will find a static mob to kill.  I have PLENTY to do. I am "hard core" but even I don't try to push my raiders 7 days a week. Thats a super great way to lose members. Days off are NOT bad. Plus, nothing you can say will make be believe that your servers spawn times are so lined up that you can wipe everything off the planet in 2 days. Competition dictates someone will kill it as soon as it is up, not when they can schedule it to die on the same day as everything else.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, you can do every epic zone in a day.  As much as this may be a surprise, however, they are only a fraction of the raid content available.</DIV>

[Dresden00]

<P>Not sure if the Devs are still reading this, but I think a good idea was put forth in another post.  How about a choice.  Two versions of each epic, one has a week lockout but always drops metal and the other is like they are now (18 hour lockout, rarely drops metal).  This would satisfy both the people who want to do them daily (I won't use the word farm) and the people who want guaranteed metal but only do them weekly.</P> <P>What is wrong with that solution?  I think it works, not sure if its impelementable.</P>

[Raxe Sla]

<DIV>Telbain, why cant you do that now then?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are right you can do many other things with your life other than this game, which are not relevant to this argument at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My guild likes to raid, if you dont want to raid every day then dont.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gnimsh Bonesmuggl]

<DIV>Are those advocating the 6-8 day lockout in active raiding guilds?  If so, what do you plan on doing during an average week of raiding?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gnimsh</DIV> <DIV><EM>GL of Monolith, Steamfont</EM></DIV>

[Telbain]

<DIV>I don't do those things now because my members want to hit things that are up.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That means we hit it to give them the most chances possible to get metal, simple as that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And yes, we are an active raiding guild. Read my posts again and you'll see where its coming from.  Note my definition of what raiding is.</DIV>

[Gnimsh Bonesmuggl]

<DIV>A raid is defined as any encounter that requires more than 1 group to kill and the ones we are debating have been tuned for 4 groups to kill.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Telbain wrote:<BR> <DIV>I don't do those things now because my members want to hit things that are up.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV> <DIV>Congratulations, you are on a low competition server! </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On my server we have 3 guilds that time, scout, and kill all competitive mobs.  As your server matures and more and more players reach 50. Those players will get bored, form raiding guilds, and eventually the lifespan of your competitive mobs will become short.</DIV> <DIV>And when you do kill a competitive mob, it took you 45 minutes ... grats, now sit on a dock in Freeport or Queynos and wait for the next scouting report.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>CL/CoD/Ant/Frt are a great activity to do while waiting for those scouting reports, or to begin the night with as the guild logs on. Remove them (and not replace them with additional content) and you will begin to notice fewer and fewer players logging in. My guild simply raids to raid - loot is just a byproduct of accompishment.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gnimsh</DIV> <DIV><EM>GL of Monolith, Steamfont</EM></DIV>

[Mat]

<DIV>Haha! This is silly! Dev. pushed back a nice plan because a few ppl complained that they want daily raid to earn more $. What a waste. :o</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Seriously, enabling daily raid will kill the game faster, and you will lose more hard core players who were looking forward to the implementation of 100% master drop. Please think more wisely before pushing it back. :p </DIV>

[Vladdax]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Moorgard wrote:<div></div><div>The changes to epic raid zone timers currently on Test will not be going to the live servers with Live Update #8. After talking a lot about it and watching the debate, we've decided that we want to find a better solution to the conflict between frequency and rarity. </div><div></div><div></div><div>To be clear, this is the change that will NOT be going live: </div><div></div><div></div><div><p>- Instanced epic encounters off The Feerrott, The Commonlands, Antonica, and The Orcish Wastes will now drop metal treasure chests 100% of the time. They also had their reuse timers increased to either 6 or 8 days upon completion of a successful raid.</p></div><hr></blockquote>Nice moorgard <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> the "better solution" is a nice combination of x4 raids, some difficult with 100% master, some easier with only 25%. There needs to be veriaty AND challange to all these raids.</span><div></div>

[Kwoung]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Raxe Slade wrote:<BR> <DIV>Kwong, when the new content is added would it be so hard for them to make the changes then?  I think it is you who is being shortsighted.<BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>ROFL, you really think SOE is going to make this change after there are more mobs to raid? You obviously don't have a very long history in dealing with them. The players should have taken the change when they had the chance, because the chance of SOE giving you a master chest every time once you can raid 14 different mobs per week.... is near or below zero. Heck, they would of probably ended up nerfing it back to 50-75% rate once there was more mobs anyways, but that would still be ahead of whats in place now and you are stuck with.<p>Message Edited by Kwoung on <span class=date_text>05-02-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:46 PM</span>