Tanks and Taunts with stuns and adjusted avoidance

[Erendil]

<DIV>Regarding the potential change to Mitigation and Avoidance, I have 1 big question/comment: </DIV> <DIV>On live servers now, I often have faced situations in groups where i was unable to use abilities (such as taunts) almost from the beginning of the fight (obviously due sometimes to mez, but usually due to the new stun I believe). With avoidance being decreased, I see this causing serious problems with our ability to hold aggro.....(I imagine getting nickeled and dimed for small amounts of damage until the other members of group pull aggro from doing to much damage, I cant get aggro, group wipes.....again, there have already been times in the past when that almost happened). </DIV> <DIV>Are these changes to mitigation versus avoidance going to address the repeated stuns, or allow us to taunt while stunned, or something?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edited to make title more informative</DIV><p>Message Edited by Erendil on <span class=date_text>04-27-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:23 PM</span>

[Dart]

<DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=055092614-28042005>This is my biggest concern. Worst case it becomes a major issue with Mitigation tanks, and you know SOE will address it. Just may have to go through a month of "Sorry Dead_Templar_01. I couldn't do crap I was stunned 75 % of the fight, Hang tight while I use a stone :p"</SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=055092614-28042005></SPAN></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><SPAN class=055092614-28042005>The higher level I get the more nasty specials I see coming from MOB's. So yes this has great potentional to hurt Everyone, as agro mgmt will be a [Removed for Content]. Don't get me wrong I enjoy a challenge, but if I am stunned 60 to 75% of the fight, its going to be a bear to hold agro. As is now some caster mobs will silence/charm you as you are pulling to the group, you better hope you got off your 30 Second buff/ AE taunt while running like a girly man to your group. Now envision this post melee changes. Woot I see dead people!</SPAN></FONT></DIV>

[Wrapye]

I don't know if there is anything that presently, either on the live servers or test, that mitigates stun, but if there is, it isn't doing much. My thought was that for stun that is inflicted in melee, which is what the mitigation tanks are having such a hard time with, how about the Stamina attribute being used to derive stun mitigation.  The rational is that a sturdier character is less likely to be concussed by a blow and be stunned by it.  In addition, as far as I've seen, there are fewer party-wide buffs for stamina than there are for the other stats, so the tank's stamina isn't likely to be buffed into the stratosphere, making him/her immune to stun. <div></div>

[WolfSha]

<P>Could do, or have stuns resisted based on what type of armour your wearing so heavy armour resists 75% of stuns while light resits 25% (and the brawlers will dodge the other 50%)  <EM>please no complains about brawlers only dodging 49.7% more than a sk after these updates or whatever, i was just illustrating an idea with made up figures....</EM></P> <P>Lets face it, you'll be a lot more "stunned" if someone punches you in the stomach in a vest than a breast plate, or bops you on the head when you're wearing a leather hat rather than a vanguard helm...</P><p>Message Edited by WolfShark on <span class=date_text>05-09-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:51 AM</span>

[Raman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WolfShark wrote:<BR> <P>Could do, or have stuns resisted based on what type of armour your wearing so heavy armour resists 75% of stuns while light resits 25% (and the brawlers will dodge the other 50%)  <EM>please no complains about brawlers only dodging 49.7% more than a sk after these updates or whatever, i was just illustrating an idea with made up figures....</EM></P> <P>Lets face it, you'll be a lot more "stunned" if someone punches you in the stomach in a vest than a breast plate, or bops you on the head when you're wearing a leather hat rather than a vanguard helm...</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, it should be the other way around.  I'd expect a guy who's lived his whole life taking it on the chin to be a little more hardened, disciplined, and resilient against getting stunned than a guy who's soft flesh has been safely hidden behind an inch of metal.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Xlap]

but still, there  are limits to endurance. if you KEEP getting hit in the chest wearing leather you are gonna feel it, but it's more likely to hurt your enemy if he hits you on the chest while you're wearing plate. if anything all plate should get a built in damage shield............................................ .................................................. ............j/k, j/k people dont start the flames:smileyvery-happy:

[Dovifat]

This would actually be a way to implement the long promissed "situational superiority" within tank classes. <ul> <li>target hits hard, but status effects are rare -> tincan tank</li> <li>target doesnt hit as hard, but many status effects -> avoidance tank</li> </ul> Of course, what we'll see in game will be <ul> <li>target hits hard and many status effects</li> </ul> Can't have too much diversity in encounters, or actually live up to the promissed archetype/class system, can we. <div></div>

[Raman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dovifat wrote:<BR>This would actually be a way to implement the long promissed "situational superiority" within tank classes. <BR><BR> <UL> <LI>target hits hard, but status effects are rare -> tincan tank</LI> <LI>target doesnt hit as hard, but many status effects -> avoidance tank</LI></UL> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>This is actually an excellent suggestion which might well save the game.  Let's hope this thread doesn't fall on deaf ears.</DIV>

[JNewby]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ramanga wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dovifat wrote:<BR>This would actually be a way to implement the long promissed "situational superiority" within tank classes. <BR><BR> <UL> <LI>target hits hard, but status effects are rare -> tincan tank</LI> <LI>target doesnt hit as hard, but many status effects -> avoidance tank</LI></UL> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>This is actually an excellent suggestion which might well save the game.  Let's hope this thread doesn't fall on deaf ears.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>hah sounds preety one sided to me... I take it you are a monk... if plat wearers took alot more dmg and avoided less... well now who would be the best tank then?? hrm</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Erendil wrote:<BR> <DIV>Regarding the potential change to Mitigation and Avoidance, I have 1 big question/comment: </DIV> <DIV>On live servers now, I often have faced situations in groups where i was unable to use abilities (such as taunts) almost from the beginning of the fight (obviously due sometimes to mez, but usually due to the new stun I believe). With avoidance being decreased, I see this causing serious problems with our ability to hold aggro.....(I imagine getting nickeled and dimed for small amounts of damage until the other members of group pull aggro from doing to much damage, I cant get aggro, group wipes.....again, there have already been times in the past when that almost happened). </DIV> <DIV>Are these changes to mitigation versus avoidance going to address the repeated stuns, or allow us to taunt while stunned, or something?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edited to make title more informative</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Erendil on <SPAN class=date_text>04-27-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:23 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I have recently moved to test and started a couple new characters there.  My characters on Lucan were a 25 guardian and a 13 summoner.  I started a new guard and summoner on test because my guard was having the same problem as others, i.e being stunned most of the fight.  I was also concerned about my summoner losing the parry skill and dying a lot due to interrupts.</P> <P>My guard is now level 11 and is only dressed in basic quest armor.  The stuff you get for doing the class quest, some drops from the newbie areas, nothing even resembing uber.  I was quite surprised by the results of the work on the combat changes for both my summoner and my guard.</P> <P>I find my guard being stunned very little.  It is inconsequential with the changes.  In fact, I tank about as well as I did on live before any changes were introduced (mobs hitting more often for less damage)</P> <P>My summoner doesnt miss having parry at all.  I have had very few interrupts.  No more than when I had parry on live servers.  This part seems to be going very well.</P> <P>I have to give the combat changes two thumbs up so far.  At this time, I cant speak for what it will be like at higher levels but, there is almost no change for lower level characters.  I have one death each on my guard and summoner, the guard dying when my wife decided to look closer at the white named snake in forest ruins <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and once on my summoner when two bone fish snuck up on him from behind while harvesting in forest ruins.</P>

[Dovifat]

<span><blockquote><hr>JNewby wrote: <p>if plat wearers took alot more dmg and avoided less... </p> <p> </p> <div></div><hr></blockquote> Huh ? Where did you pull that one from ? Plate will still have considerably higher mitigation than leather, or did i miss anything ?</span><div></div>

[Sunrayn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sunrayn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>My summoner doesnt miss having parry at all.  I have had very few interrupts.  No more than when I had parry on live servers.  This part seems to be going very well.</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>My apologies, parry has not been removed from int casters yet.  I was getting skill ups last night.</DIV>

[WolfSha]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dovifat wrote:<BR>This would actually be a way to implement the long promissed "situational superiority" within tank classes. <BR><BR> <UL> <LI>target hits hard, but status effects are rare -> tincan tank</LI> <LI>target doesnt hit as hard, but many status effects -> avoidance tank</LI></UL>Of course, what we'll see in game will be<BR><BR> <UL> <LI>target hits hard and many status effects</LI></UL>Can't have too much diversity in encounters, or actually live up to the promissed archetype/class system, can we. <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>[Removed for Content], don't worry SoE would never allow that! :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Dovifat]

<span><blockquote><hr>WolfShark wrote: [Removed for Content], don't worry SoE would never allow that! :smileyvery-happy: <hr></blockquote> Well, there is always hope. Maybe they'll grasp their own basic class system at some point. I somewhat doubt it, but you never know.</span><div></div>