Why doesnt SoE ask the real EQ2 players ?

[thark]

<DIV>I'm a bit puzzled as of all the recent changes..I have never been asked what i like or dislike, who are the players they ask when they survey the changes that are needed in their game ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Well you may say that it's not strange that "one" player out of a couple of hundred tousands not being part of a survey is not that odd, well not a single person i know has been asked about anything..They just make changes.</DIV> <DIV>The odd thing is that the majority seems mostly against it..About 99% of my guild is against most of these changes, a figure that speaks for itself.</DIV> <DIV>What are SoE after actually..?</DIV> <DIV> Do they want the current players to quit and get the new players from that "other" game ?</DIV> <DIV>Is that the place where they have been taking their survey ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why aren't we allowed to "vote" ? aint we the paying customers ? Who are the people that actually takes part in SoE surveys ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Is there more solo content needed in EQ2 ? Yes or No</DIV> <DIV>Do I like the outland zone change ? Yes or No </DIV> <DIV>Do I like the dungeon lobby change ? Yes or No </DIV> <DIV>Would you play EQ2 if we implement Station Exchange ? Yes or No</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not one single of these questions has been ask to me or anyone that i know, shoudnt we be part of these decisions ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what do you say..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/Rigmor A.B </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Crotal]

<P>I recall a poll when I logged in a couple of weeks ago, asking to prioritize my play styles.  As this was largely data on solo/group/raid play I imagine that it was the basis for many of these changes.  I personnaly spend most of my time duoing, so some of the new solo mobs are good (its fun to hunt lvl 40 nightfiends at lvl 35).  On the other hand, finding heroic encounters, especially in overland zones has become MUCH more diffacult.</P> <P> </P> <P>As the best exp and loot rewards to be had are on the heroic type encounters (for a duo anyway) I personnaly feel the changes have gone a bit too far.  Roll back about 30% of the new solo mobs back to group mobs, and the balance would be closer to optimal, IMO.</P>

[Omnikain]

<DIV>I remember the poll asking whether or not people would play to buy/sell items/gear/coin for RL money.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only thing is that it was taken in EQ1....about a year and a half ago or better.</DIV>

[thark]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crotalus wrote:<BR> <P>I recall a poll when I logged in a couple of weeks ago, asking to prioritize my play styles.  As this was largely data on solo/group/raid play I imagine that it was the basis for many of these changes.  I personnaly spend most of my time duoing, so some of the new solo mobs are good (its fun to hunt lvl 40 nightfiends at lvl 35).  On the other hand, finding heroic encounters, especially in overland zones has become MUCH more diffacult.</P> <P> </P> <P>As the best exp and loot rewards to be had are on the heroic type encounters (for a duo anyway) I personnaly feel the changes have gone a bit too far.  Roll back about 30% of the new solo mobs back to group mobs, and the balance would be closer to optimal, IMO.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well, I agree to this, If they tune it some more it will be ok, but now..nah, and yet they made these changes !!</P> <P>And the straight out lie with the "lobby" thing in the dungeons, well the entire first floor of Stormhold isn't the lobby, and as far as the mud pool in Runnyeye isn't the lobby, [Removed for Content], the lobby is for me the first corridor or something, not the first floor..bah..boring boring</P> <P>Well if they dont "tune" this or reverse the old system..Im out !!</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[[email protected]]

<P>I canciled my Merchant account last week and took part in a fairly long multiple choice questionair.  It didn't have any write in answers but as far as exit interviews go, it pretty much covered my reasons for closing my account.  I still have 2 accounts active, but with vault and the upcomming Exchange, there was no reason to have a 24/7 merchant.</P> <P>I agree, with OP that a comprehensive Poll is needed.  But SOE will have dificulty interpreting the results.  My answer to one of 11 questions for why I left was because of Exchange.  My real reason was Vault (not an option), and my requirement to use my middle machine to do RL stuff, while saving my 15bucks a month.</P> <P>I also remember taking a poll at login several weeks ago, but the exit poll was better.</P> <P> </P>

[Theodo]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thark wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why aren't we allowed to "vote" ? aint we the paying customers ? Who are the people that actually takes part in SoE surveys ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Click on "my account" on the top of this page, select "my subscriptions", chose EQ2 and "View/Edit billing" then click the "Cancel" button. There you get the poll you are looking for :smileywink:</DIV>

[Kwoung]

<P>It appears that you (the OP), think that giving the players what they want actually makes for a good game. Well nothing could be farther from the truth really, giving the players what they think they want tends to make for the most screwed up game possible. Look at the string of ventures into the MMO marketplace by noob companies and how long it took each of them to figure out that doing what the players want results in nothing more than a completely unbalanced game that has your developers working 24x7 to try and fix.. DAOC was the perfect example of that. The game came out pretty decent, good launch, balance wasn't way out of whack... but they listened to the players for a year or more and all it accomplished was huge swings in balance and classes becoming completely broken and worthless for a while.</P> <P>To make a decent MMO, the company needs to look at their feedback (like they get on the forums here) and work / balance that in with their overall goals for the game. Sometimes it is possible, sometimes not, so occassionally some things players ask for over and over never get implemented, because it just doesn't work in the overall design.</P> <P>As for your original post in general, they ask for your feedback every hour of every day... and you just posted in one of the places to do so. You want to give input on game changes, then instead of sitting back and waiting for the changes to hit you, roll up a toon on test and give some feedback before they end up going live.</P>

[Valta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kwoung wrote:<BR> <P>It appears that you (the OP), think that giving the players what they want actually makes for a good game. Well nothing could be farther from the truth really, giving the players what they think they want tends to make for the most screwed up game possible. Look at the string of ventures into the MMO marketplace by noob companies and how long it took each of them to figure out that doing what the players want results in nothing more than a completely unbalanced game that has your developers working 24x7 to try and fix.. DAOC was the perfect example of that. The game came out pretty decent, good launch, balance wasn't way out of whack... but they listened to the players for a year or more and all it accomplished was huge swings in balance and classes becoming completely broken and worthless for a while.</P> <P>To make a decent MMO, the company needs to look at their feedback (like they get on the forums here) and work / balance that in with their overall goals for the game. Sometimes it is possible, sometimes not, so occassionally some things players ask for over and over never get implemented, because it just doesn't work in the overall design.</P> <P>As for your original post in general, they ask for your feedback every hour of every day... and you just posted in one of the places to do so. You want to give input on game changes, then instead of sitting back and waiting for the changes to hit you, roll up a toon on test and give some feedback before they end up going live.</P> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>your right, however with all the feedback on this board SOE is still only doing "their" stuff. SOE makes something, the people screams that its stupid, then they start to post valuable feedback with reasons why it is stupid, like everyone of us see it this way, but SOE is taking this changes live nevertheless.... um? You know, thats not the way how to do it either.

[Kwoung]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Valtaya wrote:<BR> <BR>your right, however with all the feedback on this board SOE is still only doing "their" stuff. SOE makes something, the people screams that its stupid, then they start to post valuable feedback with reasons why it is stupid, like everyone of us see it this way, but SOE is taking this changes live nevertheless.... um? You know, thats not the way how to do it either.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>While I do not agree with everything they do (the current combat changes in testing being a prime example), they do listen to feedback and are constantly making many changes at the players requests. I personally have seen dozens of changes made to the game based on my feedback alone, as have many other players. A lot of the stuff we see on test is straight from requests I have seen posted on the numerous different boards here as well. Addressing every idea from the thousand of players that visit these boards though, is impossible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wonder about some things as much as the next guy, but then again, I am not a designer and have no clue what their long term goals for the game are and what can and can not fit into the overall picture. I do know though, that if specific ideas for changes to address some issue are presented in a clear manner, the devs definately do listen and do what they can to address them... they are definately doing more than just "their stuff" though, I have seen it first hand time after time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, like I said, I have no clue what they are up to with these current combat changes and its been like a yoyo on Test lately with them, but hopefully once they have all the pieces patched in instead of us seeing / experiencing only a part of it at a time, it will all come together... I am crossing my fingers on that one.</DIV>

[Valta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kwoung wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>While I do not agree with everything they do (the current combat changes in testing being a prime example), they do listen to feedback and are constantly making many changes at the players requests. I personally have seen dozens of changes made to the game based on my feedback alone, as have many other players. A lot of the stuff we see on test is straight from requests I have seen posted on the numerous different boards here as well. Addressing every idea from the thousand of players that visit these boards though, is impossible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I wonder about some things as much as the next guy, but then again, I am not a designer and have no clue what their long term goals for the game are and what can and can not fit into the overall picture. I do know though, that if specific ideas for changes to address some issue are presented in a clear manner, the devs definately do listen and do what they can to address them... they are definately doing more than just "their stuff" though, I have seen it first hand time after time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyhow, like I said, I have no clue what they are up to with these current combat changes and its been like a yoyo on Test lately with them, but hopefully once they have all the pieces patched in instead of us seeing / experiencing only a part of it at a time, it will all come together... I am crossing my fingers on that one.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Maybe I just do not see it because I get angry every day about the lousy german localization... whatever, can you give me some examples as what were done right after the player feedback?</P> <P>In my opinion, its possible that there are "things" that were done "right", but much more of those, that were made wrong or (mostly) in the wrong way. Maybe its just the inaptitude of the human being,... we mostly see the bad things more clearly and remember them in a better way then the good things.</P> <P>For me what were done wrong:</P> <P>1) Few weeks after the release the powergamers complained there is no content and the game is too easy. SOE patches... for more challenge (actualy they only increased the abilities of teh mobs)... and cripled the game for the casual gamers.</P> <P>2) 2 Months ago (roughly) they made changes to AC and AGI, they reduced the impact of AGI on the AC, then they increased the mitigation of heavy + light armor, but left medium armor behind. Scouts were cripled, I havent touched my swashbuckler since then. Though every scout "cries" nothing have been done yet to fix it. The combat changes seems to make it even worser, I rolled a scout on the test server and I can tell you, grimgrash the orc killed me in 2 hits, his white goblin guards (I was lvl 6) needed 3.... I will see whats going to happen, its only test and a lot of changes are still possible, but I doubt so <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>3) Losing Guildexp on patron-loss: a stupid system, there are tons of problems on the german servers where jerk-officers removed patrons and caused some guilds to lose a lot of guild exp that is not retrievable, the support wont do anything. However, there is no real logical reason why a guild should lose exp when a patron is gone. Not even one. The player base discussed this thoroughly, they provided a lot of feedback and arguments, but SOE said "we are not going to change it" (ok at least we got some feedback that it will not happen).</P> <P><BR> </P>

[aeio]

MMOGs are not democracies.  Sure they want feedback and player input, but the game can't be designed via poll. <div></div>

[Kwoung]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Valtaya wrote: <P>Maybe I just do not see it because I get angry every day about the lousy german localization... whatever, can you give me some examples as what were done right after the player feedback?</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>My 2 most recent which are just small things...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. Equal Housing: Inn Rooms added to EFP at our request to make it in line with Qeynos Harbor. This was done very soon after we asked it be put in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Wizard HO completion. Used to require AE spells to complete 50% of our HO's. This was changed to allow a single target spell to be used to complete them just  a couple days after the Spell Dev was asking on Test for any spell issues.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Those are just the most recent 2 that I requested that got implemented right away, but there has been many before and tons from other players.</DIV>

[Tazzrin]

<DIV>Aeiouy wrote:</DIV> <DIV>__________________________________________________ ____________________<BR>MMOGs are not democracies.  Sure they want feedback and player input, but the game can't be designed via poll.<BR>__________________________________________________ ____________________</DIV> <P><BR> </P> <P> You are correct. MMORPG's are not democracies. It is a <U>business</U>. Along with business comes a cruel cold world. Let's face it, the people working for SOE and the people in charge of SOE are in it for the money $$$. As long as they are getting paid, and the clients are investing, then there is nothing to worry about.</P> <P>  However, business ethics tell us that in order to be successful, a company has to keep up with supply and <U>demand</U>. With SOE, supply is not the problem, but rather the demand. Good businesses will listen to their clients and comply to their fullest potential to their demands in order to keep the investments of their clients. How can a company expect to grow if they totally ignore all of the wishes and demands of it's investors? They won't grow, simple as that.</P> <P>   Now, I believe that SOE needs to work on its community relations a little more. Sure they may respond here and there with it's pay-to-play customers within the official forums. But, I have yet to have a face to face talk with one of SOE's representatives over issues that I may have in game. This could be a vital down-fall for SOE and they need to address it immediately. If it is not fixed within the near future, SOE could face a tremendous drop within it's stocks, because the simple fact is that the people paying and investing not only money, but also tons of time are not being heard.</P> <P>Simple fix to the problem would be a little more investment from SOE's part on it's community relations and feedback. It is not as strong as it should be and I think it is a blatant fact.</P> <DIV><BR><BR></DIV><p>Message Edited by Tazzrin on <span class=date_text>04-28-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:22 PM</span>

[otlg]

<DIV>Well I just logged into my production machine, and I got surveyed about exchange... specifically... and I voted my conscience.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And I got asked about the type of play I usually partake in.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So I'm batting 2 for 2 <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Osiri</DIV>