Learn from AO's mistake: a single patch can destroy a game.

[Ay]

<DIV>I'm not saying that no changes to balance should be made. I'm not saying that at all. I am saying please allow proper testing of these balance changes before throwing them in - to make your update quota. Please do this by allowing people to copy characters to test servers and allowing PROPER time to test things out. Then, you have to actually listen to feedback- w/out just throwing something out to meet some management deadline. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say this because although SoE hasnt produced a single flop yet, there's always hope. Anarchy Online came out and was a revolutionary game as far as graphics and sound were concerned. Patch after patch they added more stuff, w/out proper testing. Finally, they created a single patch that destroyed the companies income. After that hordes of people left the game, and never looked back. As much as they tried they could never regain that sort of player base. Now the game is offered for free, that's how desparate they've become. I'm sure that after they lure many folks in, they'll start up subscription fees again, if they get that far. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is that just becuase you're SoE doesnt mean you should be sloppy with balance and patches. There are many similarties between EQ2 and AO. Namely, both games put a much higher priority on sex apeal, graphics, and sounds, than they did on game mechanics and balance. As fun as it is to gawk at the females in this game, it gets old, in the end game playability is what matters. </DIV>

[Evyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV>*snip*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is that just becuase you're SoE doesnt mean you should be sloppy with balance and patches. There are many similarties between EQ2 and AO. Namely, <STRONG>both games put a much higher priority on sex apeal</STRONG>, graphics, and sounds, than they did on game mechanics and balance. As fun as it is to gawk at the females in this game, it gets old, in the end game playability is what matters. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I am having trouble believing you are playing EQ2 based on that bolded statement 0_o  I would say that EQ2 is more.... anti-sex appeal :smileytongue:</DIV>

[Raman]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Evyn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV>*snip*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is that just becuase you're SoE doesnt mean you should be sloppy with balance and patches. There are many similarties between EQ2 and AO. Namely, <STRONG>both games put a much higher priority on sex apeal</STRONG>, graphics, and sounds, than they did on game mechanics and balance. As fun as it is to gawk at the females in this game, it gets old, in the end game playability is what matters. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I am having trouble believing you are playing EQ2 based on that bolded statement 0_o  I would say that EQ2 is more.... anti-sex appeal :smileytongue:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>...says the person with [Removed for Content] and a bare female midsection in their sig.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Shandael]

<P>We'll have to see if the dev's actually do this right for once. There's some real issues with the Combat Changes, such as the caps making the bard class (especially Troubadours)completely useless, as well as totally removing the value of certain combat arts/special trait selections.</P> <P>It's the usual overkill and now everyone must suffer for it and SoE has to expend massive amounts of energy, resources, time, and money reinventing the wheel.</P> <P>Hopefully they'll get this massive overkill right, and for once, let us enjoy the game without completely rewriting it and changing all the rules every couple of months...</P> <P>I'm hopeful, but at the same time very pessimistic considering the past history of the "dilligence in throughly testing these updates". Hopefully they won't completely destroy the game, and let us enjoy another month or so before completely rewriting it all over again.</P> <P> </P>

[Evyn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ramanga wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Evyn wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <DIV>*snip*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is that just becuase you're SoE doesnt mean you should be sloppy with balance and patches. There are many similarties between EQ2 and AO. Namely, <STRONG>both games put a much higher priority on sex apeal</STRONG>, graphics, and sounds, than they did on game mechanics and balance. As fun as it is to gawk at the females in this game, it gets old, in the end game playability is what matters.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>I am having trouble believing you are playing EQ2 based on that bolded statement 0_o  I would say that EQ2 is more.... anti-sex appeal :smileytongue:</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>...says the person with [Removed for Content] and a bare female midsection in their sig.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>... which is definitely <STRONG>not </STRONG>a screenshot from the game :smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[Sebastien]

According to Moorgard the combat mechanics changes are completely modular and seperate from anything else they are developing.  I wouldn't get too worried over it. <div></div>

[Valta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sebastien wrote:<BR>According to Moorgard the combat mechanics changes are completely modular and seperate from anything else they are developing.  I wouldn't get too worried over it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>you should better start with it</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>after 4 months of watching SOEs work, I am very scared.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>right after release and actualy up to high 20s I were able to solo yellow mobs at a 75% chance of success with my templar and swashbuckler, today I barely can do blues... when I look at what they are testing, SOE is once again reducing our effectiveness and I bet they will do not even ONE thing that makes up for it.</DIV>

[Sebastien]

The way solo mobs were at release was lame.. anybody could solo them, even named yellow ^^ was soloable.  I'm happy we have moved from that to be honest.  As for these changes, please keep in mind they are only a first step in series of changes.. so you cannot really judge them in isolation.  I think all that is happening here is working on avoidance mechanics, balancing fighter tanking v. non-fighter tanking, and balancing brawler v. plate tanking. Once they like these mechanics, adjustments will be made to mob DPS, healing potency, etc. <div></div>

[keiic]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sebastien wrote:<BR>According to Moorgard the combat mechanics changes are completely modular and seperate from anything else they are developing.  I wouldn't get too worried over it.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>SOE tried and anounced fixed a scout skill five times, while they failed four of them.  <DIV> I am getting worrier and worrier.</DIV>

[LlewCadey]

all it feels like most of the ime is we are still in beta with so many game mechanics changes. Your meant to perfect the combat systems and balance issues in beta stages, not 6 months after the release. however, if they feel something like combat and such needs tweaking, id prefer a series of tweaks to a single sweeping change. and that said, id expect at least a month or two of solid testing. <div></div>

[Valta]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sebastien wrote:<BR>The way solo mobs were at release was lame.. anybody could solo them, even named yellow ^^ was soloable.  I'm happy we have moved from that to be honest.  As for these changes, please keep in mind they are only a first step in series of changes.. so you cannot really judge them in isolation.  I think all that is happening here is working on avoidance mechanics, balancing fighter tanking v. non-fighter tanking, and balancing brawler v. plate tanking.<BR><BR>Once they like these mechanics, adjustments will be made to mob DPS, healing potency, etc.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Theoreticaly you are right Sebastien, especialy on the yellow ^^ mobs. They were not all soloable, but some, and some classes could do it better/faster then other. However I speak about the regular solo white/yellow con. It is no improvement in challange just to increase resists, hp and DPS of a mob so it takes longer to defeat it. Not more, not less. I dont speak about challange if I need to beat on a mob 10times longer then before, it is just a time sink. It is no fun beating hours on the same mobs. The variation is the key to fun in a MMORPG. Hit an enemy and move to another spot, to another type of enemy. Most of the quests, for instance, need to kill you dozens of the same mob. When you need 2 minutes for each mob, and have to kill 50, you will be doing 100 minutes and more (spawn time) only to kill the same mob until you are done. Thats no fun. If you could kill them in 30secons, it would take you only few minutes until you are done. You know, the mob will die anyways, no matter if I need 5 minutes or 10 seconds, they could, as well, just decrease the exp outcome.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Whatever, I could not play for the last 2 weeks and were able to play my sorceres on sunday. However she is only lvl 16 where the most things are still "doable" and "easy" as you all call it. I could do white and even yellow con mobs once again with little to no problems (2 months ago I could not hit even a blue one). We will see.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One more point though: SOE cant do the balancing one by one because it will not work. They cant fix (balance out) the priests and see how it works, say "good, thats realy good, we are satisfied, lets go on with the combat changes"... then they "balance" them out, see how they work, and continue on balancing out mobs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I know they wont do the priest balance before the combat changes are done and will introduce both in the very same patch, however there is a lot of stuff that is not considered because noone knows it could cause some impact. They have to do the balancing one by one, but only on the test server, and when it is all done, they have to put it live, otherwisse we are screwed. And were we go, I, as many others, have no trust in SOE. They will bring the priest balance only with the combat change, but I think the rest of the stuff that have to be done will stay untouched (I bet they will not adress the scout problems). Thats our fear and you know what, after the past 4 months our fear is quite eligible.</DIV>

[UrkBloodA]

<P>elimintating parry for some professions will mean the end of soloing for them - even with mob DPS rebalancing.</P> <P>As it stands right now, my heavy armor paladin can solo things which my wizard cannot.  If the change leaves my paladin having a harder time soloing these same creatures - my wizard will have nil chance.</P> <P>if you pull parry skill - then spell casters will need to avoid interruption more.</P> <P>as it stands, mage defense skills are much lower than warrior skills.  yet, it's that one parry that lets you get off the spell which damages the white con 'solo' creature after suffering from 5 interruptions in a row.  (bad example, most fights I've done lately - I'd be dead with 3 interruptions - but I hope the point is clear.)</P> <P>-- side note --</P> <P>anyone find it easier to group now with the new overland populations?  I've had the joy of soloing content which used to require a group and have someone come and compete for the same kills with no desire to group.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Jillybean]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ayun wrote:<BR> <DIV>I'm not saying that no changes to balance should be made. I'm not saying that at all. I am saying please allow proper testing of these balance changes before throwing them in - to make your update quota. Please do this by allowing people to copy characters to test servers and allowing PROPER time to test things out. Then, you have to actually listen to feedback- w/out just throwing something out to meet some management deadline. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I say this because although SoE hasnt produced a single flop yet, there's always hope. Anarchy Online came out and was a revolutionary game as far as graphics and sound were concerned. Patch after patch they added more stuff, w/out proper testing. Finally, they created a single patch that destroyed the companies income. After that hordes of people left the game, and never looked back. As much as they tried they could never regain that sort of player base. Now the game is offered for free, that's how desparate they've become. I'm sure that after they lure many folks in, they'll start up subscription fees again, if they get that far. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My point is that just becuase you're SoE doesnt mean you should be sloppy with balance and patches. There are many similarties between EQ2 and AO. Namely, both games put a much higher priority on sex apeal, graphics, and sounds, than they did on game mechanics and balance. As fun as it is to gawk at the females in this game, it gets old, in the end game playability is what matters. </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Which patch destroyed AO exactly? Cause. I won't lie, for a company with no income they seem to still be running a game with people playing it...

[zeeke]

<DIV>Its the same as AO, the same as SWG and sony sure should or learned from SWG. All it takes is one very misguided patch that changes the game play and thats basically the end of the game. I personally think its already to late for eq2 though.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Since wed last week, we have lost right at 30+ level 50 players. They all quit the game, the rest of us are scrounging around trying to find new guilds to actually play the game with. Im sure that wont last either. In one week, that many players just outright quit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its only going to get worse as far as I can tell. Even when you cancel your acount know what it freaking ask you? "If we put more solo content in the game would you come back" what the hell. How about it we added some freaking high level content and actually made a game at level 50. Thats a better question.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It was a great start, too bad sony blew it. Could of been the best game ever if they would of just stuck to their original play and not changed the game based on whining.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To each his own.</DIV>