Qynoes citizens should NOT be getting perks from being in Freeport guilds.

[Coranth]

<DIV>It makes no sence that a Qeynosian citize should get a Qeynos TITLE  from being in a high level FREEPORT guild.  Nor does it make any sence that he should get any perks at all. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Qynoes and Freeport are ENEMIES and our members should not be encoraged to fraternize.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Coranthia on <SPAN class=date_text>08-26-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:30 AM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Coranthia on <span class=date_text>08-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:31 AM</span>

[Aethn]

<DIV>Not the right forum to post this in.   You might want to try your own server forum if you wish to complain about guilds on your own server.</DIV>

[Inqr]

I totally agree with the poster here. I am in a Freeport guild and we have about 3 good characters in our guild of 31. I have stated to leaders "What happens if MEANINGFUL pvp with guild rewards is introduced?" How will the Qeynos types be able to contribute to us? I just don't like it...if your evil, betray. If not then pass out flowers with the rest of the Hari Krishnas in Qeynos........and leave Freeport alone.

[Debillus]

Y.A.N.S.E.T. (yet another nerf someone else thread) <div></div>

[Sacha]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aethn wrote:<BR> <DIV>Not the right forum to post this in.   You might want to try your own server forum if you wish to complain about guilds on your own server.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Isn't HA a guild on test server?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still doesnt really belong in "Testing Feedback"</DIV>

[Sebastien]

(1) I agree (2) Totally wrong forum (try the Guilds forum) (3) lol @ YANSET <div></div>

[thorvang]

i disagree. you only have two points at where you can decide which city you want to live in. that's at character creation and before lvl 18.decisions made such early shouldn't affect your gameplay enjoyment in the endgame. and this will happen, if the guild you find most appealing to you, has been founded in the opposing city.if you want to forbid cross-city guilds, do so, but let players change cities as often as they want to.

[Bewts]

Give high level characters a chance to betray and they will if their guild is evil.  Not all of them, but they have that option.  Capping the betrayal quest at level 20 doesn't help the fact that many people don't meet their high level friends until much later on.  They call different cities home and guild regardless with no option to betray later on. Vader didn't betray when he was 5 years old, he betrayed when he had his power.  I'm not saying this is star wars, but some of the most influential players in stories end up changing sides during the storyline.  Shoot in order to betray make people fight and raid the leader of their current home city to get in the good graces of lucan or whatsherface.   That alone would be a significantly difficult way to betray your city at a high level, as well as rewarding for the evil/good guild.  (guild xp, status within the new city, status within the guild or what have you) My honest suggestion is to make a neutral city.  Most high level guilds need characters from both cities.  Not all betrayed to start.  Give them a place to meet up, have a guild house everyone can enter without the hassle of dodging guards, bank accounts there seperate from their home city.  Mail, and brokers as well.  Theres a lot that can be done with a neutral city.  I'd expect something along these lines to be in a full blown expansion, not a live update. While you are at it, allow people to send mail cross city for a higher surcharge fee, same with the banking system.  Allow an individual to transfer items (and money please) between a good and evil character on the same account. <div></div>

[Debillus]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Bewts wrote:Give high level characters a chance to betray and they will if their guild is evil.  Not all of them, but they have that option.  Capping the betrayal quest at level 20 doesn't help the fact that many people don't meet their high level friends until much later on.  They call different cities home and guild regardless with no option to betray later on. Vader didn't betray when he was 5 years old, he betrayed when he had his power.  I'm not saying this is star wars, but some of the most influential players in stories end up changing sides during the storyline.  Shoot in order to betray make people fight and raid the leader of their current home city to get in the good graces of lucan or whatsherface.   That alone would be a significantly difficult way to betray your city at a high level, as well as rewarding for the evil/good guild.  (guild xp, status within the new city, status within the guild or what have you) My honest suggestion is to make a neutral city.  Most high level guilds need characters from both cities.  Not all betrayed to start.  Give them a place to meet up, have a guild house everyone can enter without the hassle of dodging guards, bank accounts there seperate from their home city.  Mail, and brokers as well.  Theres a lot that can be done with a neutral city.  I'd expect something along these lines to be in a full blown expansion, not a live update. While you are at it, allow people to send mail cross city for a higher surcharge fee, same with the banking system.  Allow an individual to transfer items (and money please) between a good and evil character on the same account. <hr></blockquote>You started out so fine ... </span><span>I actualy agree with you that you should be able to betray at higher levels, but only at an extreme cost to you. Kill 5000 orcs / loose all your gear / pay 20pp's etc.</span> <span> ... but ended so bad Neutral City = Plane of Knowledge = Empty Qeynos / Freeport = EQ1 = Bye Bye (for me at least). Same goes for mail and banking. There's a dam'n good reason why EQ2 has the division between good and evil, and why having two sides opposed to each other creates diversity. But that's a very very old horse that does not deserve more beating. Find numerous threads on the issue on these boards. /B </span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Beetle on <span class=date_text>04-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:19 AM</span>

[Zandil]

<div></div><span>Heya,<blockquote><hr>Bewts wrote:Give high level characters a chance to betray and they will if their guild is evil.  Not all of them, but they have that option.  Capping the betrayal quest at level 20 doesn't help the fact that many people don't meet their high level friends until much later on.  They call different cities home and guild regardless with no option to betray later on. Vader didn't betray when he was 5 years old, he betrayed when he had his power.  I'm not saying this is star wars, but some of the most influential players in stories end up changing sides during the storyline.  Shoot in order to betray make people fight and raid the leader of their current home city to get in the good graces of lucan or whatsherface.   That alone would be a significantly difficult way to betray your city at a high level, as well as rewarding for the evil/good guild.  (guild xp, status within the new city, status within the guild or what have you) My honest suggestion is to make a neutral city.  Most high level guilds need characters from both cities.  Not all betrayed to start.  Give them a place to meet up, have a guild house everyone can enter without the hassle of dodging guards, bank accounts there seperate from their home city.  Mail, and brokers as well.  Theres a lot that can be done with a neutral city.  I'd expect something along these lines to be in a full blown expansion, not a live update. <hr></blockquote> If you let people with their subclass betray, you end up with the ridiculous situation of evil paladins and good necromancers. If you were to allow post 20 betrayals, you'd have to have a way to force a person to change their class, because it's just not possible that a paladin would continue to recieve their powers from their benign gods, nor would a necromancer be able to have a clear conscious in continuing to enslave the dead if they changed "moral" allegiances. There are plenty of good solid reasons why a paladin might want to live in Freeport - usually involving trying to work change from within... Paladins are not the best suited to the task, though, since because of their moral alignment, they tend to stand out in a city that's largely dog eat dog. There are also plenty of good nefarious reasons why a necromancer might want to live in Qeynos - but the chances are, they'd never be allowed to live there openly... something about having a city full of Paladins and Templars... So in short, it makes perfect sense that betrayal needs to be limited. Also, your example with Vader is a furphy (if you want to know what that means, find an Australian dictionary and look it up). </span><span>Levels don't equal character age, for a start, and </span><span>given what I've seen of the new trilogy, Anakin looks to be fairly young anyway when he betrays. Also, when Vader takes his place as the Emperor's right hand man, he's no longer a Jedi, but a Sith. That's a classic class change if ever I saw it - almost identical to a Paladin falling to become a Blackguard (or to use a Norrathian example, a Shadowknight). As for a neutral city, what's the point of that? Once a neutral city was put in the game, do you think anyone would live in Qeynos or Freeport?</span><div></div>

[Sunfire]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Inqr wrote:<BR>I totally agree with the poster here. I am in a Freeport guild and we have about 3 good characters in our guild of 31. I have stated to leaders "What happens if MEANINGFUL pvp with guild rewards is introduced?" How will the Qeynos types be able to contribute to us? I just don't like it...if your evil, betray. If not then pass out flowers with the rest of the Hari Krishnas in Qeynos........and leave Freeport alone. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Would you support a T5 betrayal quest then?  As far as I can see its the only way you could induce truly static guilds between the cities.  I'm not against it - I just think you have to realize what would be involved in locking the guilds to one city only ex post facto.

[JarredDarque]

<DIV>Actually   it wouldnt be too hard to do a high lvl betrayel,  you switch subclasses,  for those of us whose classes are good or evil only, not both,  and lose half your lvls to lvl 20.   i.e.  I am a36 pall,y   I would betray,  and my combat knowledge would keep me from falling down to a lvl 20 SK, would leave me at 28 instead,  as I did still have combat expierience and what not behind me.    make sense to me at least...</DIV>

[Joxer]

<DIV>First of all learn how to write "Qeynos" correctly,</DIV> <DIV>Secondly i dont give a ratsass about the perks your whining about, it gives people the chance to play with their friends in a guild, with their favorite character.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are alot of people who made a choice at the beginning only to find out their friends are playing on the other side.</DIV> <DIV>To the OP i just have to say : sorry about losing your members, but asking for an all out nerf over something petty between you and anotehr guild is very childish..</DIV><p>Message Edited by JoxerNL on <span class=date_text>04-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:31 PM</span>

[Aethn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sacha wrote: <DIV><BR>Isn't HA a guild on test server?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Still doesnt really belong in "Testing Feedback"</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>There is no guild called Halcyon Affinity on Test.</DIV>

[Big Da]

<P>I disagree; I think some organisations do not fit easily in to good or evil. The guild level reflects the reputation of the guild in the land of Norrath. A guild that allows members from both cities could be seen as a more neutral entity. The many organisations of Freeport and Qeynos have common goals. Within the cities themselves you can work for different factions than your guild mates, this is just and extension of the same idea.</P> <P>From a reality stand point this allows you to coordinate with your friends easily without be restricted by class. This is a good thing in a game!</P> <P>Also YANSET</P>

[Crotal]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Coranthia wrote:<BR> <DIV>It makes no sence that a Qynoesian citize should get a Qynoes TITLE  from being in a high level FREEPORT guild.  Nor does it make any sence that he should get any perks at all.  I am SO sick of having guilds from FREEPORT steal all my high level people away to their raiding guild, because they wont let non-members join their raids (I am looking at you here Halcyon Affinity)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Qynoes and Freeport are ENEMIES and our members should not be encoraged to fraternize.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Sounds to me like your problem is not game mechanics relating to city choice, but simply a matter of player retention in your guild.  Calling for a nerf of mixed aligned guilds will do nothing to solve your problem, even if implimented.  If you are having trouble keeping membership happy address that first.  Leave other play styles alone.

[UrkBloodA]

<P>this is a guild mechanics problem.</P> <P>#1) Qeynos Citizen is patron in guild.  Does a zillion writs for the Qeynos guard.</P> <P>#2) Freeport Citizen is patron in the same guild.  Does a zillion writs for the Freeport Militia.</P> <P>#3) Guild ding's level 30 with both having contributed 963,403 status.</P> <P>How can anyone explain how BOTH players get to be nobility in their city??  Please.  As I played the game, #2 is a traitor to the overlord and should be hung on the walls for not killing #1.  Not sure what #1 has done wrong besides become an accomplice to a mass murderer.  (no I'm just guessing that freeport guard writs send you off to kill weaklings.)</P> <P>Why it's in this forum ... who knows.  Maybe the OP is addressing something related to a change in how status points are distributed.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Havann]

<P>You guys are far fetched. Join the roleplaying server if you want to seperate friends that started in different city's. Let me know how the Freeport guilds kill the epic mobs without the Group Cure traits. </P> <P>And why would it be fair to punish the minority of a guild? This is not a realm vs realm game. If you want that, find another game, or join a roleplaying server.</P> <P>This is suppose to be fun, and challenging. And for the poster, if you have members leaving your guild to goto another. Then you have more problems then this, if you can't keep your members.</P> <P> </P> <P>-Zen</P> <P>50 Monk / 50 Alchemist</P>

[Sacha]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aethn wrote:<BR><BR> <DIV>There is no guild called Halcyon Affinity on Test.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Oh! Odd, I play exclusively on test, and I know that name from somewhere. Must be remembering it from my days on AB then.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sorry <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Coranth]

<P>Amazing how many people can MISS a point entirely.  But at least one person understands.  The point is that you should not get perks in Qeynos for being in a high level guild from Freeport.  They are mortal enemies !  </P> <P> </P> <P>This has NOTHING to do with my server.  IT has EVERYTHING to do with the game and since the situation is exactly the same on the test servers it is appropriate to be discussed here.</P> <P> </P> <P>If someone wants to group with their friends in a guild from an enemy city, thats fine.  But there is no reason Qeynos citizens should get rewards in their own city for supporting a guild from the enemy city.</P> <P> </P> <P>I know many of you like this system but dont confuse the issue of your likes and dislikes with what actually makes sence.  (You cant MAIL someone in the enemy city but you can buy things in your own city because of the things they do there?  )</P> <p>Message Edited by Coranthia on <span class=date_text>08-26-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:33 AM</span>

[Jor]

<P> </P> <P>I agree on two points :</P> <P>1) It's highly illogical... Queynos guild should'nt be able to gain status with freeport CT..</P> <P>2) It's definitively the wrong forum, it has nothing to do with changes under test...</P> <P>Now... Go away shoo... sho...</P> <P>Go annoy someone else, somewhere else and leave the game a place to have some fun.. </P> <P>I couldn't care less for the alignement of the two cities. That's the weakest plot ever saw (well now there's Star Wars III too.. hum...) Oh right nice beautiful queen is soo sweet soo good while the otherlord is soo bad.. Frankly manicheism is for toddlers.. I'd have prefered a few competiting cities, no dark vs light, and some impact on play.</P> <P>Frankly for the 9 months I've been playing this game, the nature of the two cities has NEVER provided any element of atmosphere or background. Except for the sabotage quest, or the choice on Refuge Island, there's next to nill interaction between the cities and zero effect on game. Well.. except there's an element of surprise when you have to quest in the other city... Otherwise : 0, nill, nothing... Not even a tenth of a live event, in term of visibility.. (roekillik anyone ?)</P> <P>Now my guild (Queynos) has many Freeport members and I would really HATE it if they were to deguild, whatever the reason... We have fun together and that's the point of this game.</P>

[Kizee]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Inqr wrote:<BR>I totally agree with the poster here. I am in a Freeport guild and we have about 3 good characters in our guild of 31. I have stated to leaders "What happens if MEANINGFUL pvp with guild rewards is introduced?" How will the Qeynos types be able to contribute to us? I just don't like it...if your evil, betray. If not then pass out flowers with the rest of the Hari Krishnas in Qeynos........and leave Freeport alone. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>1.) if they did put city based PvP then Qeynos would have a HUGE advantage because most of the population is good from what I have seen.</P> <P>2.) If people from the oposite factions wern't allowed to get perks in other factions guild then raiding would be nonexsistant because evil players can't suppost themselves on raids and good can't suppost themsellves on raids....especially after the revamp. You need both factions to balance things out.</P> <P> </P>

[EtoilePirate]

Aside from what everyone else has said... I'm in a big guild.  I don't even know how big, because I've been out of the game for a week, but it's big, especially on a small server like Test.  I think, in theory, it was originally Freeport-based, but at the moment we seem to be about 50/50.  It'd suck if we couldn't guild both ways.  For example, Paladin/Assassin -- good and evil, there -- is a freaking awesome duo.  The paladin/assassin combo can do stuff that the shadowknight/assasssin combo can't.  And that's just my personal experience.  I've been on raids with my guild, too, and the best way to tackle a lot of mobs is with a group (or rather, 2-4 groups) from both cities, with certain classes together in certain groups, and the groups working together against the raid target. I'd say that maybe on a roleplay server, it shouldn't be allowed to cross-guild.  And it probably isn't.  I'll buy that one.  But especially from where I sit on Test, and I suspect that on more live servers than not, the game comes down to people and mechanics far more often than it comes down to the premise of the thing.  One of my guildmates has a nearly-50 defiler (or maybe a 50 defiler by now) and lately has been mainly leveling a young swashie.  Now why shouldn't both her toons contribute equally to the guild?  And why shouldn't she be rewarded for all her work? <div></div>

[neria]

<P><FONT size=2>There are many good reasons Qeynosians and Freeportians may choose to be allies. And remember, the two cities are <EM>not </EM>at war. Roleplaying should open up all sorts of enjoyable options to people, not close them down.</FONT></P> <P><FONT size=2>Also, why should guilds on roleplaying servers be less able to raid? </FONT></P>

[FrostP]

<P>I am in Shadow Company a Freeport Guild on Antonia Bayle unyet I live in Qeynos.</P> <P>I work for Shadow company because they are a mercanary guild and they offer the best contract with the heaviest purse. </P> <P>Its not like we have a choice to pick a neutral city.</P>

[Hirofortis]

<DIV>Well reading the idea about switching sub classes only leads me to ask this.  If you switch sub classes, whatever your reasoning.  Are you willing to loose every spell and ability upgrade you had.  Oops, adept 1. Oops Adept III, Oh my god, I forgot I had a Master.... Oh wait, my armor is only good for my old class.  Maybe we should just let everyone have a complete respec when they hit 50.  Well i am tired of playing this side of the coin but I don't want to have to make a new char and work and xp and all that it entails.   Just let me change my char whenever I want.  Oh wait, this is not guild wars.  Shoot.  And really lets think about this.   Have you really had an adverse effect from being from another city?  I run a good city guild and have not seen any issues for any of the evil characters who join us.  It is not like it take a lot to hop on a boat and meet on the Docks in TS or Nek.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>SOE, don't empty our cities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[KBern]

<DIV>Presently there is no real reason to have any competition between the cities...nothing really content wise to create that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So why should what class you choose or race negatively affect your choice in guilds?  For most raids, the best combination of classes for raids have to be from both cities.  There is no reason to limit the present system.</DIV>

[Keegant]

<P>I am a heavy D&D roleplayer and I have played evil pallys (just diffferent gods giving them their powers), and I have also played good Necromancers. My fav character ever was a good necromancer because I had to RP through his perversion of the life/death thing.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Don't get me started on the good vs evil, because in my opinion you can't get much more evil than a LG pally.</P>

[Tar~Palantir]

<DIV>My general system is not to use Role play to determine game mechanics, and this is a great place to display how the systm works.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why should Joe Frodo be persecuted because John Sauron chose to become an evil toon?</DIV>

[Jaimster]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> neriana wrote:<BR> <P><FONT size=2>There are many good reasons Qeynosians and Freeportians may choose to be allies. And remember, the two cities are <EM>not </EM>at war. Roleplaying should open up all sorts of enjoyable options to people, not close them down.</FONT></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Exactly, it's that whole "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" notion.  <P>And yes, certain things don't make much sense... Right now it makes no sense that we can mail things to people on other servers but not to our own alts or guilded friends on our own servers purely because of an "allignment" that really seems mostly arbitrary except to make sure the population is divided over two zones so it isn't too heavily populated (though not really a problem at this point it seems). I don't think we should make guilds allowed to have "allignment" only members as that doesn't make any sense either for all the previous reasons..</P> <P>In addition, I think it would completely destroy some of the smaller guilds, and the big raiding guilds who are so big that they don't allow others to join will say, "okay, if you're going to undo this, we have to be able to take our status points with us (which would be the only fair thing to do if it was changed at this point) and create a sister guild for the other allignment"... and then they'll still only allow those two guilds to raid... it would effect them yes (private chat channel to join the two) but not nearly as much as it would effect those that aren't in guilds that would be able to do that. Let's not take ALL the fun away because it isn't 100% logical...</P> <P>Who knows, maybe instead of sabotage quests, there will one day also be quests that allow players into the "opposing" cities - maybe there will come some huge force that the two allignments will have to fight together... maybe the idea will be to create one giant faction  - maybe the new roll of bards will be to sing songs that will inspire a huge wedding (I mean, one side has a "king type" and the other a queen)... maybe neutral guilds will be able to one day take over each of the cities in an effort to replace the current monarchies... or have to fight the two sides who think that only one or the other should "win"</P> <P>we can't know which direction the storyline will take at this point in the game, but to limit the options just because something doesn't make 100% sense to us now, doesn't sound like a good idea to me...<BR></P>

[Manopow]

<P>seeing as how this game will never be the all out pvp some of you seem to think it might come to.  the way the guilds work between both citys will never matter like that.  there may be an arena, maybe even duels... .. . thats about it .. .. unless we start getting specialty servers, then thats a hole nother story.</P> <P>so</P> <P>this is not a great meaningfull thread</P> <P>sorry .. .. one star me.</P>